Getting wrong about the Abortion Law in texas . Well go live to austin for a fact check on that. And we are at the 18month mark of the pandemic. What is the Twomonth Cycle and why is delta such a Media Dilemma . We have covid insights that you wont hear anywhere else. But first, how News Sources should be covering a Critical Point in bidens presidency. He is facing some serious headwinds right now. These headlines tell that story. He is coming off the afghanistan withdrawal, and now this may be the single most important month of President Bidens tenure, between afghanistan, booster plans, Vaccine Mandates and the infrastructure plan. 3. 5 trillion is the shorthand heard on Tv News. But Today Senator Manchin says he wont vote for a bill that is that big. So we hear the Price Tag cons constantly, but whats being purchased . How much do you know about the purpose of the social Safety Net Bill . Democrats are, in the words of the New York times, taking the most significant expansion of the Worlds Safety Net since the war on poverty in the 60s, something that would touch virtually every life from cradle to grave. But how much are you hearing about what is actually being presented . And do you know the money is being budgeted not for one year but for ten years . I guess calling it a 350 Billion a Year Plan over ten years for ten years is more complicated. It takes more time than just sticking a big Round Number on it. And come to think of it, dont advocates on both sides have reason to amp up the number and make It Sound as big as possible . Lets talk about the coverage and how its framed and how this bill should be covered. With me is David Leonhardt, senior writer for the New York times, april ryan, columnist, and jean guerre. We just heard Joe Manchin say hes not going to go for a 3. 5 trillion deal. Its a big number, a Round Number. The democrats want to make It Sound like theyre making huge progress. Republicans want to oppose massive spending, so its in Everybodys Interest to ramp this up and make It Sound as big as possible, but doesnt that single Round Number, whatever it ends up being, isnt that an incomplete story . Yeah, i think incomplete is the right word, brian. The cost of it is a relevant detail and we should be using it in the coverage. I certainly use it. But i think there are two problems to the extent we ehave all fixated on. The human mind doesnt know what 3. 5 trillion is. We cant differentiate between 3. 5 trillion and 3. 5 billion. I know the difference between two and three, do i want two pieces of pizza or three . I never deal with trillions and billions. The number to me is a little vague. Its a big number. I think the second thing is it plays into the hands a little bit to the opponents of the bill. The opponents of the bill really want to emphasize its size, and its size is irrelevant. But what it does is also relevant. So if all we ever do is use the size as opposed to saying this bill would make prek universal for three and fouryearolds. It would reduce Carbon Emissions and slow climate change. It would bring a Tax Benefit to every family in the country with a child, or almost every family. In this weird way, its a form of bias. I actually think in part that highlights a political weakness of how the biden administration has been selling this. They havent given Anyone Wany other way to describe the bill because its a hodgepodge of different things. Theres no other way to describe it except the 3. 5 trillion bill. April, do you think viewers and readers are hearing enough about the substance in the bill . You know what, brian, im so glad you asked that. As we talk about the commas and zeros, be it billion or trillion, the issue is how does it impact me . And the messaging is not necessarily there. In this moment of crisis when this administration is trying to stop the economy from faltering, whats in it for the average person . Theyre hearing all of this back and forth, who is supporting it who is not, what they want in it, what they dont. How does it specifically impact the american person, the Average American . Thats whats being lost in all of this, the messaging. If the biden administration could come out with those they used to call them the victims in other administrations where they stand next to them saying, this would do this for me. Theyre not doing that as much. And people want to feel connected. And theres a lack of connection here. Will, what do you say about this . Do you think the Average American has figured out whats in this bill, or is it a biden messaging failure, is it a Press Challenge . What do you say, will . I think one thing thats been missing from the messaging is the other side of the equation, which is how do you pay for this . The biden administration really wants to pay for this by increasing taxes on the wealthy, and to some extent, increasing taxes on corporations. That is a very politically popular idea. The majority of american support raising taxes on the wealthy. When you talk about the messaging in this bill, maybe it should be portrayed as a fairness act, because were Talking About two different related things here. One is helping the middle class through these programs like child care, like free community college. B but the other is bringing some fairness back to the system and having billion aaires and millionaires pay their fair share for all of this. But david, as we go into the weeks to come, and it becomes a 2 Billion bill like manchin wants, shouldnt we be saying its a 2 Billion bill for ten years . Isnt that the more accurate framing . Yeah, i do think its a more accurate framing. Even better would be to compare it to other programs. What other programs cost 2 Billion a year . I think its still a number most of us Cant Deal with. Its still too big. Right, thats interesting. Will, i also want to ask you about coverage in afghanistan, because youve been outspoken about the Media Coverage on the withdrawal of afghanistan. Now a couple weeks have passed. Now we have a little Bit Perspective of what went right and what went wrong last month and how it was covered by the media. Now that we can take a breath, whats your assessment, will, of how the american media covered the withdrawal this summer . Well, its kind of a mixed bag, because were seeing some amazing individual pieces of journalism right now. Just this weekend, both the Washington Post and the New York times did a remarkable Job Digging behind this Drone Strike that, you know, the pentagon claimed Hit Members of the Isisk Terrorist Group that were about to attack the airport. It turns out this appears to have been an Aide Worker who was on our side who had no weapons and is part of the collateral damage. Seven children were killed. Were going to have reporters from both outlets on later this hour, just to let everybody know. So there is that reporting going on, but also and also, by and large, the Feeding Frenzy Weve seen in the mainstream media in the last month has really been driven by a combination of factors. The media has been so anxious to find an adversarial role in the biden era, and theyve seen this as their opportunity to pounce on this, and as a result theres been, i think, a lot of overkill. Part of that is personal. There is a lot of good reporters, including some on this network, who kind of made a name for themselves covering the war in afghanistan. I think they dont like the idea that the war was maybe fought for nothing these last 20 years. They have a lot of personal ties. People have these personal connections to afghanistan who worked there as journalists, to translators, to Aid Workers and whatnot, and it makes a more personal story for them. You need to take a step back and think about the Average American citizen who doesnt have those ties who is wondering what we just spent 2. 2 Trillion for. April, youre a White House correspondent. Do you believe there was a Feeding Frenzy between the White House and others when it came to the aftghanistan withdrawal . Generally they are one separate group that kind of goes to one melds. But when it comes to this President And Meeting those critical moments, i believe the White House correspondents that are legitimately covering this president are being very sober in their approach, because he at this moment has to meet the moment. The moment of afghanistan, the moment of covid, the moment of so many things weve never seen before. And its not just a moment of history, its a moment of life and death. And i do believe that were not hypersensitive about this. We are able to bring you detail that we havent been before. And this president is looking for a win. And afghanistan is not necessarily that win, but we are covering every moment of it. So i give The Press a great grade for covering this president in afghanistan, and primarily this whole administration, this entire administration thus far. April, thank you. Will and david, i want to bring you back later in the hour. As i mentioned with will, those stunning new reports from the Washington Post and New York times reconstructing the u. S. Drone strike in kabul that killed civilians. Were going to talk about this new type of forensic journalism Coming Up. But first, live to california with two days before the California Recall. Our ri are right wing Media Ls about cheating really the new normal . Call Unitedhealthcare Today for your free decision guide. 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In a survey, 92 of current users said they wish theyd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. Plus, right now, you may pay Zero Dollars for botox®. Ask your doctor about botox® today. When we found out our son had autism, his future became my focus. Lavender baths calmed him. So we made a plan to turn bath time into a business. Find a Northwestern Mutual advisor at nm. Com in 2016, i was working at the Amazon Warehouse when my brother passed away. And a couple of years later, my mother passed away. After taking care of them, i knew that i really wanted to become a nurse. Amazon helped me with training and tuition. Today, im a medical assistant and im studying to become a registered nurse. In filipino youll always be in my heart. That Delicious Omelet was microwaved . Get outta here. Everybodys a skeptic. Paper money. Its the future get outta here. Im leaving with my gold. Its not crazy. Help me, mother. Its an omelet. Just crack an egg. Two days until the California Recall election, and the right wing media is setting the stage for something. What should we call it . Maybe its act ii of the Big Lie. The only thing that will save Gavin Newsom is voter fraud. Thats a new narrative on the right thats sounding all too familiar. Fox News Star Tommy Larin Diving deep into voter conspiracy. Its going to have big consequences not only for that state but upcoming elections. Shes directing her warning to the governor of california, Gavin Newsom, who is fighting to stay in the election. This is an emerging Story Line On Fox, a prebuttal to the election, basically claiming that democrats can only win if they somehow cheat. Its the big Lie Playbook flown from d. C. To sacramento. Theyre going to cheat to win, the Mailin Ballot Scheme is rigged. And lets be clear, there has been no evidence of widespread voter fraud, but the trusted voters On Fox, like tucker carlson, have been issuing veiled warnings for weeks. As the old saying goes, history never repeats itself. Fraud is used as an excuse to explain away any future republican loss. With me from l. A. Is Los Angeles times columnist jean guerrero. And still with me is David Leonhardtt will bunch. Is that why theyre Talking About fraud . People largely want to keep newsom in office. We have about 60 reporting that they are against the recall, that they want to keep newsom in office. A lot of that is driven by voters of color, particularly latinos, who are now about 66 against the recall. So you see Larry Elder is relying on this Big Lie because he understands that californians are very like tly to reject hims the next governor of california, and the only way he can sort of explain this loss away is by claiming it was stolen from him in the same Way Trump claimed that with the 2020 election. Hes always been an agent of trumpism, and i think it reflects with what this recall is about, which is disenfranchising voters and attacking democracy in a way republicans have been doing across the country. Youve been such an outspoken critic of elder. Hes known to right Wing Radio listeners as a host for decades, but then he has sparred with the media covering the campaign. Hes clearly the leader among republicans in this recall. Do you think he was able to get around the media and reach voters in california . Was he able to run a Trump Playbook in the state . I mean, kind of. Hes essentially been running his campaign on Fox News and on right wing Media Outlets. Hes refused to talk to nonpartisan Media Outlets and to journalists who are critical of him. Has reviews to answer difficult questions, and he does give us an opportunity to have a performance on Social Media denouncing those journalists and playing the victim, but he has been able to reach the minority of voters in california who embrace his Right Supremacist world view. You know, hes coopted this line by my fellow columnist from the headline, you know, calling him the black face of white supremacy, but he refuses to engage with the actual substance of our reporting, you know, the idea that his views were shaped by a wellknown Right Supremacist named Jared Taylor who he repeatedly quoted in earlier writings, that he plans to reverse all of the States Progress on immigrant rights and racial justice, and that he poses a real threat to communities of color for all of the reasons that weve reported in the past. Clearly the l. A. Times opinion folks, you and others, have been very much against elder. We will see what impact, if any, that has had in two days. I liked the word you used about elder and the media, his performance. He performs his antimedia pose when hes On Fox and elsewhere, because, of course, thats what we hear from the former president as well. I want to play a brand new clip that i think should be getting more attention than its getting from Donald Trump. This is an binterview from the Gateway Pundit that has been so toxic in terms of Election Information that google has taken away its ability to put ads up. Its demonetized the Gateway Pundit. Trump calls into the Gateway Pundit and heres what he said about the 2020 election. I do believe theyre going to decertify this election. Thats his fantasy now. His fantasy is they are going to decertify it. But jean, as you said, when these people dont talk to real journalists, people are going to challenge them, we dont often get Answer S to what theyre Talking About. Who is they . Who is he Talking About . Again, its just a fantasy. He explained that even fox is not taking his fantasy seriously. Theres never been a stronger issue. The press doesnt like Talking About, including fox. The press doesnt like Talking About it and someday someone is going to tell me why. Will, can you tell the former president why The Press doesnt like Talking About his lies . Right. The 2020 election has been reaudited and recounted its boring at this point. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, it wont go away, and im glad youre doing this segment because its not just a california story. Im here in pennsylvania and we had news this week that the republicans who have a majority in the State Legislature in california are now launching this review with subpoenas and whatnot of the 2020 election. You know, if you want to credit Donald Trump for anything, its persistence. He refuses to let this go away, and he keeps prodding for openings, you know. Look, california is a state heres the problem, right, will . He may not believe it, but his fans do. So this stuff gets spun up on the right wing web. It goes to the Gateway Pundit and gets spun to millions of people who are still living a realtime Fantasy Or Nightmare about the 2020 election, even though its almost 2022. Yes, but there is this symbiotic relationship between the media and the right wing politicians. The more the right wing politicians like these legislators in California Launch these new investigations and reviews and call them audits, even though theyre not really audits, the more they do that, the more oxygen theyre giving to these reporters to keep the story alive. Of course viewers are going to think there is something to it. Why would the State Legislature launch this investigation if there wasnt fraud . There wasnt fraud, but theyre doing it, anyway. Let me give you a preview of whats Coming Up next week, everybody. The new Book Written By Bob Costas is called peril. Well see a leak of this book in the coming days. Let me read what Eugene Robinson said about peril. Republican Jonathan Carr promises it will be newsworthy on an international scale. Its an interesting quote, but well hear about peril a lot in the coming days. My question to you, a book about Donald Trump. Do they matter anymore, because trump fans probably wont hear about them. I think they matter by incentivizing people who would otherwise not vote to come out and vote. Honestly, i cant really say. I mean, i think its important to continue to shed light on things that happened in the Trump Administration and, you know, hope that the information reaches the people that it needs to reach. But trump supporters, they already live in a parallel universe. That information is never going to reach them and its very unlikely theyre going to change their mind, so its about informing and reaching audiences who are still engaged with reality and with serious journalism and who understand the importance that journalism plays in our democracy. Jean and will, thank you both for the conversation. Up next, sweeping mandates for shots. How is the media covering vaccinations . Is it still being treated as a 5050 issue when its not . Well have insight from David Leonhardt, next. Er get you some dove. She hooked me up. With a quarter moisturising cream, Dove Cleans effectively and cares beautifully. Stop clearing breakouts doesnt have to be harsh on your sensitive skin. New cetaphil gentle clear contains balanced formulas that gently clear breakouts and soothe sensitive skin. Cetaphil. Complete Acne Care for sensitive skin. Now in the acne aisle. Hey lily, i need a new Wireless Plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. Oh, we can help with that. Okay, imagine this. Your mover, rob, hes on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. We cut to downtown, your Sales Rep Lisa has to send some files, like asap so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. Yeah i shouldve just led with that. 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It definitely changed mine. I measure months and seasons differently now. This weekend its been 18 months since america began to shut down. 18 months since that unforgettable day when the Nba Canceled Games and Tom Hanks said he had covid and it all started to go down. My son was six months old then, and i thought this would all be over when he went to school. I hoped he would never have to wear a mask. But he just turned two and school starts tomorrow and hes masking up. Thats how i measure time now. America is stuck in a strange phase of this pandemic with inbetween time with unnecessary Pain And Suffering among the unvaccinated. Hospitals fairly overwhelmed in some places, buildings frozen in time. But at the same time, Tent Pole events are back. The Media Business is back. The vaccinated Nfl Season is underway. The vaccinated Met Ballis Reope tomorrow. And theres sluggish Ticket Sales and the live shots of some stadiums can make people feel un uneasy. Its a weird era between frozen and not freozen at the same tim. With me again is David Leonhardt with the New York times. I notice President Biden citing one of your Data Points this week, david. Tell us what that Data Point was and why its important. So theres been so much talk of Breakthrough Infections, and Breakthrough Infections are real, but i think a lot of vaccinated people have heard so much coverage about them that they have almost come to think that theyre the norm. I set out to calculate just what are your odds of getting a Breakthrough Infection. And the nationwide average, which obviously mixes people taking a lot of risks and no risks, this includes people in low Vaccination Mississippi and high vaccination massachusetts, it seems to be about one in 5 tho5,000 per day. If you live in the northeast, thats probably one in 10,000. That would build up, but it looks like the odds of getting a confirmed Breakthrough Infection of covid over a threemonth period would be about 1 . So its still extremely unusual. It happens, but its extremely unusual. I think a lot of vaccinated people have come to overestimate the odds that theyre actually going to get a Breakthrough Infection, let alone that theyre going to be very sick. If they do get one, the odds are it will be quite mild. Grossly generalizing here, vaccinated folks are safer than they intend to think and unvaccinated people are not safer than they intend to think. David, have you struggled with how to cover the variant . I have. Because, look, before delta, the chances that a vaccinated person would get sick, really sick, and thats what we care about, right . We dont shut down schools and shut down broadway or stop going to broadway because of the flu and we have the flu every year. So what we care about is really, really sick. Before delta, the odds that a vaccinated person would get truly sick was very small, approaching zero. Theyre still approaching zero but they are higher than they used to be. I do think if you are immunocompromised, if you are over the age of, i dont know, 70 or 80, looking at the statistics, delta seems to have changed it in a meaningful way, taking it from extremely, extremely low to maybe just very low. But if you are in one of those categories, the odds are still so, so, so small that youre going to get very sick, but theyre a little higher than they used to be. And getting that Balance Right is just inherently difficult for the media to do, and its inherently difficult for people to think about in their own lives. Right, we see the cdc and the White House having communication challenges, skand The Press whe it comes to this. Do you think its fair to say that the Covid Reality is being distorted by the Fringe Minority . This is not a story anymore. One in six adults have had One Shot of the vaccine. If anything, its a 3 versus 1 story with onequarter of the country not getting vaccinated. I hear a lot of stories, i read a lot on Social Media about fights at School Board meetings and angry, unvaccinated americans, and i think, it seems to me those minority voices are being overly amplified, perhaps. I think thats true. Some of that is natural. The loud voices are always going to be the ones that get heard the most. As you say its not even just adults. 75 of people 18 and older have had at least One Shot, 24 of 12 and older have had One Shot. So the overwhelming majority of people have gotten at least One Shot. Unfortunately, we trail most other rich countries in the share of vaccinated. So were in this really messy situation. One way i think about it, brian, delta is a problem, but Vaccine Hesitancy and Skepticism And Opposition is a bigger problem than delta. If you look at the number of Breakthrough Infections, if you look at the amount of illness in highly vaccinated places like seattle which publishes detailed data, it is still so, so, so low. Delta is a problem, but the bigger problem is the fact we have large numbers of americans who havent gotten vaccinated, thus allowing the virus to spread much more than it needs to spread. And thats partly because of right wing media. Let me just give people a sense of what the reaction to president Bidens Mandate was like On Fox. Joe biden declared war on freedom yesterday. Canceled all medical freedom. Took authoritarianism to a whole new level. Its going to require everybody to stand up and resist and fight. Enough is enough. Hes evil thats the tone. I just want folks to know, thats what its like out there, david. I mean, there are two ways to think about freedom, right . One is does someone have the freedom not to get a Vaccine Shot . Thats a legitimate question. The other is do we as americans have the freedom to go out and know that we are less vulnerable to a deadly virus . That is also a form of freedom. And thats why i think that this sort of Profreedom Case for Vaccine Man daydates is actuall stronger than the antifreedom case. Americans deserve the freedom to go to school without fear, they deserve the freedom to go to school without health risks, they deserve the ability to go to Football Games and broadway plays, and the long history of Vaccine Mandates shows two things. They make a lot of people mad, or at least a lot of people by percentage in a big country, and they save lives. They are going to push a whole bunch of people who werent getting vaccinated before to do it, otherwise their lives are going to be really inconvenient, and theyre going to save lives. Im over on time, but just real quick, we might have peaked on delta. We dont know yet, but you caught a Twomonth Cycle. What is a Twomonth Cycle . Where are we . Toi want to make clear the Twomonth Cycle Isnt guaranteed, but in history, the trough of a cycle to the peak of cases is about two months. Were about two months since delta started rising and delta started falling over the last week. It is possible, not guaranteed, but it is possible that we have hit a peak of delta. David, thank you. For more on the Twomonth Cycle, newyorktimes. Com. What texas is getting wrong about the texas Abortion Law. Well go live next to evan hill. man my ex is dating a pisces. So im like, screw it. Lets talk manifesting. Lets talk chakras. Lets Talk Self healing my way through the 12th house. woman in van set your intentions. Man Sitting crystals up. woman full moon bath ritual. Cleanse and find your magic. Let it go huh, huh Let It Go word, word, 88 Let It Go Let It Go that Delicious Omelet was microwaved . Get outta here. Everybodys a skeptic. Paper money. Its the future get outta here. Im leaving with my gold. Its not crazy. Help me, mother. Its an omelet. 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So we made a plan to turn bath time into a business. Find a Northwestern Mutual advisor at nm. Com the Dojs Lawsuit against texas over the states new Abortion Law is one of the reasons why that law will remain on Tv News rundowns in the months ahead. How should it be covered, conveyed, talked about . The texasbased nonprofit News Outlet the 19th has been covering this nonstop. Emily ramshaw has been covering this and she joins me from austin. Should it be called a ban or a bear . It should be called both those things. The reality is this is a Sixweek Ban, and its really more like a Twoweek Ban because most women, most pregnant people dont even realize theyre pregnant until four weeks in gestation. I think well talk a little bit about how the media covers this, but i think factchecking this becomes a critical piece of information. You factchecked the Texas Governor about this. Hes saying at least six weeks, and youre saying thats bull. There is a lot of Party Line around this, and i also think youre seeing a lot of rhetoric coming from men and not just from male politicians but also men in the media around what this bill really does. I think one challenge with the way this story has been framed is that there has been so much conversation around the politics of this conversation versus what it actually means for pregnant people on the ground. You think you know, when you saw the media finally pick up on this story, the conversation was, is this actually going to be good for biden in the long run, or is this going to Kcrippe Republicans down the road about how they feel here on the ground and probably in the united states. Im seeing more in San Antonio about the people affected and we need more of that. You think in general there wasnt enough attention before this bill became law . If you look at the New York times Home Page today, you will see two stories right now leading the Home Page that are more on the people than the politics. For the first couple weeks of this story, there was this national media disbelief. Everybody was really late to the game. There was this sort of eye rolling, well, of course, this is texas, and there had been more attention even on a 20week Ban than there was on this Sixweek Ban that really had no exception even for rape or incest. I think the sense was, well, texas might do this because texas does this, but then a District Court will overturn this. Or the Appellate Court will overturn this. Or even this Supreme Court that seems to have done things we didnt maybe expect what they would do around vaccines, this Supreme Court is not really going to uphold something this extreme. The reality is this time was different. Those of us on the ground knew it was going to be different this time around, and i think you just didnt see the national media getting into the conversation until suddenly it was almost too late. Emily, thank you for that analysis and critique. I appreciate it. Up next, it was described as the final u. S. Strike in afghanistan. But what really happened . Who died and why . Two new visual investigations have come out into the loss of liv innocent lives in kabul. And well talk to two reporters, next. The Dove Beauty Bar makes my skin feel fresh. Ive encouraged serena my Best Friend to switch. Feels moisturized and clean. My friend stefanie, her skin was dry. Im like girl you better get you some dove. She hooked me up. With a quarter moisturising cream, Dove Cleans effectively and cares beautifully. This is the planning effect. If you ask suzie about the future, shell say shes got goals. 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Remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. Making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. Think back to last month after the Isis Attack at the Kabul Airport killed 13 Service Members and scores of afghans. There were grave fears about a second attack. U. S. Officials were under pressure to stop a followup. That was the context when a Drone Operator pulled the trigger and fired a missile at a car in kabul, causing multiple explosions in what was described by the pentagon at the time as a righteous attack, taking out wouldbe terrorists. Now there is a new story evolving, developing. A story from the New York times and the Washington Post through their investigations, their reconstructions their stories suggest that the u. S. Actually targeted and killed an Aid Worker and wound up killing seven children and two other civilians. Not only were there civilian deaths as reheard from reporters on the ground, but they may have targeted a completely innocent man. The New York times is coming to this conclusion using surveillance footage, Real Life interviews, Social Media clips and more, basically mapping out the exact movements of this person in the final hours of his life. The Washington Post also piecing together evidence going through looking at the evidence from the explosion, showing it to experts who say it doesnt seem like there was a secondary explosion. It doesnt seem like this was a car full of bombs. So these investigations have clearly cast doubt on the u. S. Militarys actions. What may have been the final u. S. Drone strike of the afghan war. That is what it was as of now, 12 days into september. No further Drone Strikes in afghanistan by the u. S. So what we hear what we have here is an example of a new kind of visual storytelling by newspapers like The Times and the post. I want to talk more about that with evidence vin hill, a member of the visual Investigations Team at The Times. And Nah Dean from the Washington Post. What is the Washington Post finding based on interviews with experts about what happened in kabul that day . What we found by asking experts to analyze imagery of the damage caused by the strike as well as speaking to the nonprofit that employed the driver targeted in the operation who was the focus of The Times great investigation is there was no evidence that the car contained explosives. In fact, who of our experts say what could have caused a secondary blast could have been Fuel Tank vapors from the car. Evan, you interviewed the same people and found Security Camera Footage that tells us more. What did you all learn . We, as you said, tried to retrace August 29th in the life of this man, this employee of a u. S. Based ngo. We obtained Security Camera Footage from the ngo in kabul. What it appears to show and we confirmed it in various ways that we can talk about is that this man was an Aid Worker going about his normal day. All of his colleagues said this is what this man did every day, he drove around kabul, made Food Descriptions for the ngo, took his colleagues to different places. What he loaded into the car were Water Containers and laptop bags. What we showed challenges and perhaps contradicts the defense Departments Case about this man being, quite, islamic State Facilitator or a man carrying explosives. It definitely suggests that they struck this man in the courtyard of his Family Home with children around his car without knowing much about him. The final strike of the afghan war may have been a fatal mistake or a fatal screwup by the u. S. Military. Why is it so important to do this, evan . How can you do this in ways you couldnt have done ten years ago . Now you have satellite imagery, security footage, you can piece things together like you couldnt before . Thats exactly right. Our team and the post visual Forensics Team rely on things you can get online, videos, photos, data, Meta Data as well as a lot of advances in satellite imagery, things you can purchase commercially that allows us and this community of online open source researchers to piece together things that no one could piece together a decade ago. Whereas before we might have had the account of the government versus the account of the witnesses and americans maybe at least in the past were inclined to give their government some credence in what it said and the claims that it may. Now we can take this visual data you can see for yourself, piece it together in a very transparent way and use that to create a story that holds the powerful to account and challenges the governments narrative. Nah dean, the Washington Post calls it visual forensics. Why forensics . What does that term mean to you . Forensics to me implies a level of extremely detailed analysis. This work of im sure evan can agree deciphering small grainy visuals that are a small part of an entire story is very labor intensive. It has the great benefit of adding to the Publics Understanding of an event and can reveal instances of overreach by those in power. Video and visual reconstructions, as implied by the term forensics, i think have become a really important tool in reporting mechanisms. This type of work can be profoundly transparent. It allows readers to know precisely what we know but dont know by plainly showing it. Its remarkable. A new innovation in journalism. Evan and nad dean, thank you for being here. Tonight afghanistan is the subject of a new cnn Special Report by Jake Tapper called americas longest war what went wrong in afghanistan . Thats airing tonight on cnn. Well see you right back here next week. Ive always dreamed of seeing the world. 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