those cases range in terms of the use of force, right? the types of force used are var only. >> correct. >> some cases may involve whether an officer should have punched a person, right? >> correct. >> some may involve whether they should have used a particular technique or not, a taser for example. >> correct. >> some involved the use of deadly force, correct? >> correct. >> but they are not all these thousands of cases are not all deadly force or resulting in the death of an individual. >> correct. >> and in fact the vast majority of these are based upon like civilian complaints or sergeant's review of a use of force? >> sergeant's investigation, yes. not civilian complaints but primarily sergeant's investigation. >> so in the los angeles police department, similar to the minneapolis police department, if an office uses force, there are serb types of force that they have to report to thsuperi and then that use of force will be investigated? >> correct. >> and then that process once that report is completed, you were on the panel of people that reviewed that investigation? >> on certain occasions, yes. >> so again, i mean, in your capacity of reviewing the use of force, you would agree that graham versus connor is the standard? >> correct. >> it is the universal standard for all police officers in the united states, right? >> to my knowledge, yes. >> and that is because it comes from the united states supreme court, right? >> yes. >> kind of the highest law making or -- the highest court in the land. >> correct. >> and that is the standard that the officer of inspector general uses? >> it uses the los angeles police department's use-of-force policy. >> which also includes the graham swrer versus connor. >> correct. >> and in terms of minneapolis, that is the same standard we use here. >> yes, it is. >> and that is embodied in the minneapolis police department's use of policy 5-303? >> i don't know the exact number, but, yes, i believe so. >> and glam raham versus connor factor -- if i could just have a second -- you've talked yesterday and today about the graham v con authornor factors are comfortable discussing graham versus connor? >> yes, i am. >> and i'd ask -- >> can we have a side bar? >> looks like we've jumped into another quick side bar. let me get over to chief ramsey. your reaction to what we've been listening to. >> well, so far, i mean, he clearly has a great deal of expertise in this particular area. you know, i think that it also points out best practices. it is not just about minneapolis, minute. there are certain standards especially as it relates to use of force that are pretty much universal. so i think that that is pretty much established through his testimony thus far. >> and we're right back in. let's jump back in to it. >> within the minneapolis police department policy, i'd ask the court to -- i would like you to publish exhibit 106. there is at exhibit 106, the in-cooi incorporation of gramt swrer suc graham versus connor. >> yes. >> and it exists primarily from a state statute? >> yes . >> and then that state statute has to be consistent with the graham versus connor factors? >> correct. >> and fair to say that there is more to the analysis of graham versus connor than simply the severity of the crime, the immediacy of the threat or the act of resistance? >> yes. >> and in fact what the ultimate police department policy says here is because the test of reasonableness under the 4th amendment is not capable of precise definition or mechanical definition, its practice application requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case including those three factors. >> correct. >> not limited to those three factors. >> correct. >> after we discuss -- after the policy discusses those three factors,le boy is is he goes on to read that the reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of the reasonable officer? >> correct. >> on the scene? >> correct. >> earnrather than the 20/20 vi of behindsight. >> correct. >> and the next paragraph says it must embody allowance for the fact that the police officers are often forced to make split second judgments in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation. agreed? >> that's what it says, yes. >> and this is the minneapolis police department policy. >> correct. >> and then it concludes by saying that the authorized use of force requires careful attention to the fanktscts and circumstances of each case. >> right. >> so ultimately the analysis of the objective reasonableness of any case has to be a consideration of all of these thoughts that are contained within the policy. >> if they apply, yes. >> and this is not an exclusive list of factors that apply, right? >> correct. >> because ultimately it is what is called a totality of the circumstances event, right? >> yes. >> so we have to look at the entirety of everything that is going on, right? >> yes, we have to look at the subject's actions as well as the officer's actions and typically occurring my analysis i look at the actions before, during and after what the officer knew at the time, things of that nature. >> and sometimes the use of force isinstantaneous, right? >> sometimes. but not in this case i don't believe. >> understood. but sometimes the use of force is instantaneous. >> sometimes, that's correct. >> that is a very fast afrks. >> correct. >> i punch you in the face, that is a quicker type of a reaction. >> correct. >> i tase you, that is a quicker reaction. just inherently a fast action. >> in some cases, correct b. >> and yesterday you concluded that this was an excessive use of force and that is not the standard. the question whether it is an objectively reasonable use of force. >> yes. >> and whether we review whether use of force is authorized, there are layers to that animal sitsz, would you agree? >> yes. >> and i'll kind of start from the out and work my way in. there is the general training that an officer has and his or her experience, right? >> yes. >> there is kind of a mid level of surrounding circumstances, right? like what do we know about the geography, what do we know about the neighborhood, what do we know about the people involved. right? >> yes. >> and then there is the direct kind of layer which is what is the type of force being used, how long is it being used, what are the subject and officer's action and reactions, yes? >> yes, serious ngs oness of cr things of that nature, yes. >> so we have to take into consideration the officer's training. right? >> yes. >> we have to take into account his or her personal sxeshlgs, ri experience, right? >> yes. >> we have to take into account tactical advantages or disadvantages. >> convrrect. >> and scene security? >> yes. >> we have to take into account the safety and security of our partners? >> yes. >> we have to take into account the public's safety? >> yes. >> we have to take into account the location generally speaking, a this a high crime, moderate crime or low crime area, right? >> yes. >> we have to take into account deeithe eiescalation possibilit. >> yes. >> and you discussed yesterday the minneapolis police department critical decision making model, right? >> i don't think that we discussed that yesterday. >> but you reviewed that? >> yes. >> and you understand what an officer is opposed to do is go through the cycle process, taking in information, right? >> yes. >> assessing the risk, the threat, deciding is it lawful for me to do this, how do i react. ultimately with the goal of keeping everybody safe. right? >> yes. that is a pretty standard thing to continually reassess as you are using force. >> reassessment is a specific tool. >> yes. >> and that is common to police officers, right? >> yes, sir. >> you have foegofoe to take in account that some enter actions will be fwhin benign oig, not risky? >> correct. >> but that can very quickly can become risky? >> agreed. >> and there are circumstances that they walk into knowing that this could be a higher risk situation? >> yes, depending on the nature of the call. so for exampldomestic assault ca higher risk? >> yes, like a robby. >> robbery, a shooting, a lot of situations they go into with a heightened sense of awareness. >> correct. >> and sometimes they will walk into a situation having no sense of concern but they have to prepare for the unexpected, agreed? >> i wouldn't agree with that. i believe based on my training that most officers once they put that uniform on and we respond to a call, we know that there is a risk factor, but we don't know what level depending on the severity of the calm. >> so every single time an officer responds to a call, there is an inherent risk? >> correct. >> that is the nature of policing. >> yes, it is. >> and an officer -- a reasonable officer has to be prepared for that risk level to change? >> correct. that is why we use tactics. >> now, again, one of the things that officers have to take into consideration is their department's policies, right? >> yes. >> and you would agree would you not that every single use-of-force policy that minneapolis has some form of what is called qualifier meaning if it is reasonable or safe or tactically proper? >> yes. >> so all of the analysis has to depend upon the safety, the practicality, and in certain circumstances tactics? >> in certain circumstances, yes. in most cases, the objective reasonableness of the actual force. >> and when we look at the use of force, we don't look at the use of force in a vacuum, do we? >> no, we do not. we should not. some -- i've seen some agencies that that is all they focus on, the use of force. but when i look at my analysis, i look at the totality. the officer's tactics and as well as the subject's actions during the whole entire incident. >> and because it is a totality of the circumstances analysis, we need to and it is objectively reasonable based on the facts of this particular case, correct? >> correct. >> so we need to look very closely at all of the facts in assessing whether or not the use of force was reasonable, agreed? >> agreed. >> so let's talk about the facts of this case. do you understand that officer chauvin was the initial officer dispatched to this call? >> yes. >> and that dispatch ultimately what is called the sector car took over the call and officer chauvin was no longer responding? >> correct. he was no longer the primary unit. >> and so reasonable for a police officer to rely upon the information that he or she receives from dispatch, correct? >> correct. >> and so you understand that in this particular case, dispatch advised the officers that the suspect was still on scene? >> correct. >> that it was a priority one response call, correct? >> correct. >> that means get there quick, right? code 3, get there with lights and sirens? >> i don't know the exact code for minneapolis pd, but i believe you. >> okay. and that the specific was 6 to 6'5" tall and that he was possibly under the influence? >> correct. >> so reasonable for an officer to rely upon that information in response to a call? >> yes. so that they can confirm it. >> they can confirm it, but it also sets the stage, right? we're talking about the inherent risks. >> yes. >> so it is much different how a police officer, a reasonable police officer, would respond to an intoxicated large person versus a smaller person who is just a little crab by, right? >> in some cases. i've seen some small people put up bigger fights. >> so reasonable to be in a heightened sense of awareness based upon the information that they receive from dispatch, agreed? >> agreed. >> and ultimately you understood that under the facts of this case, officer chauvin was dispatched a second time, correct? >> correct. >> and that is because the dispatcher heard that officers were taking someone out of the car. right? >> yes. >> and so let's just kind of stop there for a second. when you consider the fact that this was a forgery or a counterfeiting call, and you don't expect to use force in that type of a situation, you wouldn't normally expect -- >> correct. >> but now you hear dispatch send you on an emergency basis to the scene because officers are using force. right? they took somebody out of the car. >> taking someone out of the car is not necessarily use of force. >> have you listened to the dispatch -- the audio of the dispatch of this case? >> i believe so. >> and the testimony of the 911 operator was that she heard screaming and scuffling or some sort of a noise that prompted her to dispatch a second car, right? >> i didn't hear her testimony. >> okay. but officers, they do hear -- they get the radio traffic, right? >> yes. >> they do hear all of the communication among all of the officers. >> correct. >> and reasonable for an officer to rely on that information? >> yes. >> and if you are an officer and you hear a scuffle on the radio, you we're taking one out and you get dispatch code three or in an emergent situation it is reasonable for an officer to come in with a heightened sense of alertness, awareness? >> absolutely. >> and you would expect that, right? >> yes. >> you've responded to these kales calls i'm sure thousands of times. >> yes. >> so now you have a reasonable officer would have a heightened sense of concern about this call. >> correct. >> so when officer chauvin arrived at 8:17m:23, he knew soe degree of force was being used because of what he heard on the dispatch, correct? >> correct. >> he knew that other officers were there. >> yes. >> he knew that he was being dispatched to back up a situation. >> yes. >> he knew that the individual specific was possible impaired, right? >> yes. >> based on the dispatch. and he knew that he was 6 to 6'5" tall. >> yes. >> aare so when he arrived on scene, he had a reasonable amount of information to rely on in forming his or her next steps. >> yes. >> and when he arrived, he observed mr. floyd and two officers? >> correct. >> at the back seat of the squad car. >> correct. >> and what you described as mr. floyd actively arresting their attempts to put him into the back seat of the squad car. >> yes. >> at that point according to the use of force continuum, he could is dry stunned him or tased him? that would be within the active resistance struggling use of force continuum? >> yes. >> he didn't do that, right? >> no, he did not. >> because sometimes an officer has to back down in their use of force. right? >> in certain situations, yes. >> a reason only officer who comes on scene based on all the information that he has that time comes into the scene, sees two other police officers struggling with an actively resisting person, right, it is reasonable for that officer to assist his fellow officers in their efforts, right? >> correct. >> and you observed the body camera footage of the struggle? >> yes, i did. >> and you would agree that from the time that officer chauvin gets on scene into the time that mr. floyd is prone on the ground, mr. floyd was actively resisting efforts to go into the back seat of the squad car? >> yes, sir. >> and the officers were reasonable in their use of force in their attempt to get him into the back of a squad car, agreed? >> agreed. >> now, in this context, mr. floyd was saying certain things as he was being -- attempting to be put in the back of the squad car. >> yes. >> you recall him at that point saying i'm not a bad guy? >> yes. >> do you remember him saying that i have covid? >> yes. >> or i just got over covid? >> yes. >> do you remember him saying at that point i can't breathe? >> yes. >> he was saying to the police officers at that point i can't breathe. >> yes. >> as he was actively resisting their efforts to put him into the squad car. >> yes. >> now, again, in the course of your career and in the course of your training, experience and all of the contexts that you have done, have you ever had somebody say to you -- to attempt to bargain with you to avoid being arrested? >> yes. >> sort of like hey, man, i'll do what you wants a long as i don't have to go to jail, right? >> yes. >> or somebody may be fighting, and they may agree to stop fighting with you through a bargaining process, right? saying if i get to sit on the curb, i will stop fighting. >> yes, in certain instances, yes. >> have you ever had a person feign a physical ailment as you attempted to arrest them? >> yes. >> sometimes people will say i'll having a heart attack, right? i think i'll having a heart attack, don't take me to jail, take me to the hospital. >> yes. >> and it is fair to say that the vast majority -- i shouldn't say the vast majority. it is fair to say that one of the things that an officer has tosessment of the reasonableness of force is take into account what the sfek is sa sp specific is saying and how he is acting. >> yes. >> and so if someone is saying i can't breathe and they are passing out, because the actions are consistent with the verbal utter answers that he is making. >> yes. >> and in this particular case when mr. floyd was initially saying that he couldn't breathe, he was actively resisting arrest. >> initially in the back seat of the vehicle, yes. >> and in fact he was using his legs to push back and use his body weight against the officers, right? >> yes. >> and at one point three minneapolis police officers were attempting to get him into the back seat of the squad car from the passenger side of 9 the car? >> correct. >> and they were not able to do so. >> no. >> and in your report, you described it as when the futility of their iefforts becae clear. >> i can't recall. >> would it refresh your recollection to raeview your report? >> absolutely. >> may i approach the witness? >> absolutely. >> does that refresh your recollection, sir? >> yes, it does. >> and what you wrote is it when the futility of the three officers continuing their efforts forcibly to see the floyd in the squad back seat became clear. right? >> yes. >> they put him on the ground in t prone position. >> yes. >> so again in context of what the arrest quee is saying, you also making assessments of their physical characteristics? an officer should be observing what physical characteristics a person is displaying. >> yes. >> and you are analyzing that against what a person says, right, or how they are acting. >> correct. >> so if you ask are you consuming -- what did you take, what drugs are you on and they deny that they are on drugs but there is physical evidence to suggest to the contrary, it is a consideration that an officer has to make. >> yes. >> and in this case, oufficered asked mr. floyd repeatedly what kifb kind of drugs that he was using. >> yes. >> and you've seen a white substance around mr. floyd's mouth? >> yes. >> that would be consistent with intoen possibly using controlled substances? >> correct. >> is it common in your experience for people who have been using drugs or alcohol to deny that they have used drugs or alcohol? >> yes, in some instances. >> kind of the proverbial drunk driver, right? i haven't had anything, officer? >> yes. >> i've had two beers, right? people have a tendency to minimize what they have consumed, right? >> yes. >> you have testified as i understand your testimony that once the officers putting mr. floyd into the prone position was initially a reasonable use of force, right? >> yes. >> and you are familiar with the swarm technique? >> yes. >> where multiple officers are on top of a resisting specific trying to control the extremities? >> yes, typically that is done prior to handcuffing. >> but once someone is handcuffed, right, and they are in the ground, a person who is in handcuffs can continue to be a threat, agreed? >> yes. >> they can kick you. >> correct. >> they could bite you. >> correct. >> they could thrash and get free and start running, right? >> in certain instances, yes. >> and in certain instances, they can even get your weapon, right? >> yes. >> they could get your gun from you. even though that they are hand handcuffed. >> yes. >> so the notion that handcuffed suspect no longer presents a threat to an officer is not correct. >> it depends on the circumstances. >> right. a handcuffed suspect can continue to present a risk. >> based on that person's actions, yes. >> and so once you have a suspect in the prone position, and they continue to kick, it may require more force than if they were compliant. right? >> yes. that's why we have devices like the hobble. >> right. initially during this instance, you said agree that mr. floyd continued to make certain pro protestations about the inability to breathe and he was saying a lot of other things like he was in pain and he was hurting, correct? >> correct. >> and an officer, a reasonable officer, they need to communicate with each other, right? >> yes. >> a reasonable officer will rely on information that his fellow officers tells him, right? >> yes. >> a reasonable officer again will take into consideration what the suspect is saying and compare that against the actions? >> yes. >> and at a point during the exchange initially, officers are going to kind of talk and figure out what is going to happen next, right? >> they should, yes. >> what has just happened, right, why are we involved here, what is going to happen next. and you can sometimes take time to formulate options and decisions, right? >> yes. >> at the scene of an arrest, even just in the immediate kind of where it is, it can be chaotic. people can be talking over each other. >> yes. >> the suspect may be saying some things. >> yes. >> bystanders may be saying some things. >> yes. >> and in the chaos it may be easy to miss in things. >> in certain instances, yes, depend on tseverity of what is going on. >> i'd like to publish part of the body worn camera, this is from officer king, starting at 2 20:21:01. >> any objection? >> no objection. >> i'd like you to see if you can tell me what mr. floyd says this instance. [ video played ] >> are did you hear what he said? >> no, i couldn't make it out. >> does it sound like he says i ate too many drugs? listen again. [ video played ] >> i can't make that out, no. >> so in the chaos of the situation, things can be missed, right? >> yes . >> you would agree that he was advised that he was under arrest? >> yes. >> and it happened a couple times. >> yes. >> and at the point that they have mr. floyd on the ground, you would agree and you are aware that officers called for ems in. >> yes. >> it is a reasonable for an officer to call ems? >> yes. >> if there is an injury, right, or some need? >> or a complaint of injury or? discomfort or medical emergency, yes. >> and you understand that in this particular instance, very shortly after mr. floyd was on the ground, officers called for ems? >> yes. >> they called for -- >> initially for his injury to his head. >> to his face or mouth? right? >> yes. >> and they called it in a nonn nonemergent situation. and this occurred at the point when officers were discussing whether or not to use the hobble restraint on mr. floyd, right? >> yes. >> and ultimately officers did not use the hobble restraint, right? >> correct. >> a hobble restraint would generally require officers to consider calling ems, right? according to minneapolis police department policy. >> correct. >> and it may be different in other jurisdictions. >> right. >> so as officers are discussing and ultimately they decide, you agree that they decide not to use the hobble device. >> yes, they did not use the hobble device. >> and we talked a little bit earlier about the deescalation component of things. >> yes. >> a decision to use -- or to not use a higher form of force that you may have been authorized to use can actually be a deescalation technique. agreed? >> in certain instances, yes. >> so officers making a decision not to increase the level of force can be viewed as a deescalation technique? >> yes. >> innow, again, we've talked a lot about the need for reassessment and kind of things as -- reassessment and officers need to continue to take in information, process if, figure things out, right? >> yesterday. >> they have to as a part of that process continue to attempt to dehe i esdeescalate, right? >> yes. >> would you agree that an officer saying relax, take a deep breath, you know, that is a way of trying to calm somebody, right? >> yes, if it is not going with other actions. you can say relax, calm down, but if you are punching somebody, that is not really relaxing -- >> right. but if they are complaining i can't breathe but they are speaking, still moving, still talking, you may say hey, man, relax, calm down, take a deep breath, right? >> yes. >> as a way of reassuring that person that we've got ccha, rig? >> yeah, so that you can communicate what they are saying to you. >> and again officers in this reassessment process in this case reassessed the need for a quicker ems response, right? >> yes, i believe after their initial call for the injury, then they asked for a quicker response. >> it is stepping it up i guess is the quote, right? >> yes. >> they increased the priority of the call from a code two to a code three which in minneapolis means get here with your lights and sirens. >> yes. >> as a part of your analysis, again, at any level did you consider what the average 91 1 r ems response time is? >> yes. >> do you have that information? >> not for minneapolis, bud usually it is like 5 to 7 minutes. >> and that is not specific to minneapolis? >> right. >> and it obviously depends upon certain circumstances, right? >> correct. >> if there is a firehouse three blocks away, it may be 90 seconds or a minute even. >> correct. >> and sometimes if all of the ambulances are busy and all of the fire trucks are busy, it could be much longer, right? >> yesterday. or they go to the wrong location. >> or they go to the wrong locate. . >> yes, that has happened to me. >> so part of the analysis is that i have ems coming, how long should i expect them to be here, they are taking that into their analysis. >> yes, they should. >> now, at the point that they stepped up the analysis -- or stepped up ems to code three, would you agree that that is about the time that people began to congregate? >> i would have to look at the video again, but, yes, that is probably around the same time. >> so if ems was stepped up at 20:2 20:21:30, about 90 seconds after the initial call and ms. frazier is seen coming into the area at 20:21:17, that is about the same period of time, right? >> is frazier the -- >> she is the bystander who started recording. >> okay. >> and so she started recording at about this same time, right? >> yes. >> and she was concerned about what she saw, agreed? >> yes. >> and again, based on your review of all of the body cameras, ms. frazier, she wasn't saying anything initially, right? >> i don't believe sthat she wa, no. >> she was simply there recording. >> yes. >> she was not in in way interfering with what the police were doing. >> right. >> but more people started to gather. >> yes. >> and there was another gentleman that was there before actually as they were attempting to put him in to the car. >> the older gentleman, yes. >> the older gentleman. and i believe -- correct me if ichlg i'm wrong, do you participate or present a training called awful but lawful or lawful but awful, something like that? >> yes. >> and so you would agree the general concept is sometimes the use of force, it looks really bad, right? >> yes. >> and sometimes it may be so -- it may be caught on video, right? and it looks bad. right? >> yes. >> >> but it is itself lawful. >> yes rbased on that department's policy or that state's law. i did a present tapation at a conference for that. >> so the police use of force has a tendency at times to attract observers? >> yes. >> and in the course of your career, i'm assuming at the very beginning of your career not every single person was walking around with a video camera 24 hours a day 7 days a week with it in their hand? >> no but in los angeles, it was right after rodney king, so you did have people walking around with video cameras. there was one gentleman known for doing it. >> and so it has become in the more recent history as the smartphone has prevalent experience. any single person could be a potential videographer of a police interaction. >> right, it has become pretty common practice. >> and in fact officers themselves now wear cameras, right? >> yes, most. >> and in the city of minneapolis, every uniformed police officer wears a body worn camera or they are supposed to? >> yes. >> and they are supposed to be running when they have interactions with citizens peaceful or not peaceful? >> yes. >> but there is a limitation to cameras. >> yes. >> the camera only sees what the camera cease. meaning that anything outside of its view is not observable to the camera. >> correct. >> and certainly cameras can't -- they don't have a feeling or a sensation, right? >> no. >> you can't determine what the tension in their body, based on a camera? >> specifically are you -- >> if someone is struggling and you got them handcuffed, they can still be tense but not really look very tense, right? >> i would disagree with that. >> okay. >> so the camera would be able to pick up whether someone is having a particular sensory experience 1234. >> yes, it can. >> okay. >> side bar.1234. >> yes, it can. >> okay. >> side bar.234. >> yes, it can. >> okay. >> side bar.34. >> yes, it can. >> okay. >> side bar.4. >> yes, it can. >> okay. >> side bar.. >> yes, it can. >> okay. >> side bar. another quick side bar. laura, what is the defense attorney building towards here? >> they are trying to build that this essentially that it was subjective that the officer -- everything is not in the training book and he was being nimble and flexible and he believed that when he approached the scene, that there was a need for more force than normally necessary for an alleged counter fit bill because he had already learned that officers could not control george floyd and put him in the back of the squad car. and they are also trying to suggest that the power dynamic, the size of george floyd relative to derek chauvin compelled him to use more force. and the awful but lawful, that things look bad but this is what they are trained to do. still goes against everything that we've heard the testimony so far. >> right. as has been noted, this is an unusual -- this is an unusual trial in many regards. but one thing that is unusual about it, how many current and former police officers have testified essentially against derek chauvin saying that he has used excessive force, what he did is outside the bounds of policy. >> well, that is because it was. and i mean, we're not disputing -- or no one is disputing the initial use of force. they talked about the information chauvin received en route to the scene. well, when he got to the scene, floyd was already handcuffed and he was near the patrol car. and so, you know, that should have lowered the temperature as far as he was concerned about any risk or threat that he perceived on his way there. certainly using force to get him in the car, nobody is disputing that. but once he is back out of the car and in the prone position and he see ceases to resist that is the issue. and of course the counsel is trying to muddy the waters a bit. but i don't think that he is being very successful other than being successful in dragging out the testimony. but i don't think that he is being very effective in terms of changing anyone's mind about whether or not the use of force in this case was reasonable or was it excessive. and i just -- i don't see it happening yet. >> the control room told me that the judge did announce a 20 minute break so we'll pick up shortly. i believe that it is now eight current or former officers who have taken the stand to testify against chauvin. how rare is this? >> women rwell, it is not as ra people want to believe. is t this is a televised criminal trial. most is during an arbitration hearing. that is when a chief would testify if they fired or suspended an individual, a commander would testify, someone from internal affairs would tes testify. and that is all behind closed doors. so it happens all the time. but it is just not public. so this notion that no one ever speaks against another police officer never happens is just not correct. there is times that it is not reported. no question. but this terms of testifying, it happens more often than you would think. >> and something just happened in the cross-examination that i wanted to get your take on, laura. when chauvin's attorney introduced a part of body cam video and he asked the use of force expert if he could -- what george floyd was saying in that moment, stiger could not decipher it and he said multiple times i can't make that out. but then the attorney himself said did you hear floyd say i ate too many drugs. look, i'm no expert, i almost would have expected there to be an objection to that. >> did you hear me from where i am standing up and pounding on the table to say objection? because exactly what the prosecution should have done. here is why. the idea that you will introduce testimony through the actual attorneys is not what you are entitled to do. the judge will often tell jurors that the counsel's statements are not testimony. that is the witnesses. the idea here of him trying to introduce what his interpretation of what was said, the idea of didn't you hear him say that he ate too many drugs? and tiger was ying stiger was ng to say what he did not hear. but in doing so, it lingers. and again, prosecutors have to be very careful about what lingers. you and i and everybody outside of that courtroom are thinking about what is happening. but if you are the jury and that is out there, a 20-minute break and we will get you back to minneapolis as soon as the defense continues, and you know there will be redirect coming with this witness on the stand. thank you both so much. we have the cdc director saying the uk variant, the variant first identified, the variant first identified in the uk is the most dominant strain of covid in the united states. up next, how it could impact another possible surge in cases. aliens are real, alright. there's just too much evidence. kill weeds not the lawn with roundup for lawns products. dignity. this thing you can neither see nor measure... ...but that demands the return of small moments illness attempts to steal. ♪ dignity demands a rapid covid test, ♪ because we all need an answer to move forward. ♪ dignity demands your heart stays connected to your doctor, so you know it's beating as it should. ♪ it demands a better understanding of your glucose levels, so you can enjoy movie night. ♪ and knowing your baby is getting the nutrition he needs, no matter how you choose to feed him. dignity is not effortless nor easy. at abbott, we fight for it every day, developing life-changing technologies. because dignity demands it. ♪ the country is in a race against time right now as covid variants are spreading rapidly and cases are on the rise again in certain states. president biden is urging the country at this very moment not to let down its guard. listen. >> the virus is spreading because we have too many people who see the end in sight, think we're at the finish line already. let me be deadly earnest with you. we aren't at the finish line. >> the warning comes as the cdc director moments ago at the white house briefing said the uk variant is the most prevalent strain in the united states. listen to this. >> the b.1.1.7 variant is the most common variant circulating in the united states. >> let me bring in cnn correspondent, elizabeth cohen. what else have we learned from the white house today? >> she's talking about the b.1.1.7 variant, also known as the uk variant being so prevalent now in the u.s., and many times it's young people that are getting the variant and she talked about outbreaks that are being seen among young people. let's take a listen. >> trends are increasing in both case numbers and hospitalizations. across the country we're hearing reports of clusters of cases associated with daycare centers and youth sports. hospitals are seeing more and more younger adults, those in their 30s and 40s admitted with severe disease. >> you know, kate, to repeat what we have been saying for many mothers now, you know, covid does not affect young people as much as older people but still it does affect young people and young people can get sick when they are acutely ill with covid or they can get a syndrome that could be quite horrible, and what the doctor is saying, we're seeing outbreaks, and let's remain vigilant. >> we are continuing to see millions of shots in arms every day, but a new cnn analysis makes it clear that not every state is seeing this at the same pace. what are you finding? >> right. the differences are huge. how quickly states are vaccinating their population. in new york every day there are fully vaccinating 950 people out of 100,000 in the population, so in other words these are all equalized by 100,000. in north dakota that number is 570, and in georgia and alabama, it's less than 300. so we can see that states are moving along at very different rates. also, let's take a look at how part of that is because not everybody wants to get vaccinated, so for example, in massachusetts and vermont, 92% of people want to get vaccinated, and in georgia that number is 75%, and in north dakota it's 68%. that begs the question when will we see entire states being vaccinated. when we look at the question, when could all winning residents be vaccinated, new york and north dakota, june, vermont, early july, and georgia, november. >> thank you so much for the update. we will head back to minneapolis very soon and the murder trial of the former police officer, derek chauvin, will resume. we will be right back. ♪ you come and go ♪ ♪ karma-karma-karma- karma-karma chameleon ♪ ♪ you come and go ♪ ♪ you come and go-o-o ♪ ♪ loving would be easy if your colors were like my dreams ♪ ♪ red, gold -- ♪ [ tires screech ] [ crickets chirping ] for those who were born to ride there's progressive. with 24/7 roadside assistance. ♪ karma-karma-karma-karma-karma chameleon... ♪ new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed.com/home. i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! ( sighs wearily ) here, i'll take that! ( excited yell ) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one-gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health! ( abbot sonic ) hello, everybody. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i am john king in washington. day eight of witness testimony in the trial of the former minneapolis police officer, derek chauvin. he pinned george floyd with his knee on his

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