next to him when police pulled him out of his car in that video there, will be ordered to testify. that friend, however, is expected to take the fifth. his fifth amendment rights not to testify. next hour, testimony resumes after just a damning day for the defense. the police chief who fired chauvin telling the jury that chauvin's restraint, quote, absolutely violated policy. we begin with the president's big vaccine announcement. a white house correspondent jeremy diamond and cnn senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen standing by. this expands it, in less than two weeks, every american adult does the country have the supply to meet that goal? >> well, that's the thing, right? access and eligibility are two very different things in the world of getting vaccinated against the coronavirus. but what president biden is expected to announce today is that he is going to be moving up that target date for every american adult and that is actually americans 16 and older to be eligible to be vaccinated to april 19th after previously setting a target date of may 1st. it's important to acknowledge already a majority of u.s. states have already expanded eligibility to that category of americans. and only two states are set to expand eligibility on may 1st. every other state is already expected to do so beforehand, including a couple of states that announced yesterday they were moving up that eligibility date to april 19th. perhaps not having a ton of actual effect on the ground but what it is doing, it's sending a signal that as a majority of americans age 65 and older, in fact, 75% of those have now already received one dose or more, the u.s. is shifting to a new phase of this vaccination campaign. and the white house wants americans to know that it is their time to be able to get a coronavirus vaccine and beginning april 19th, all people 16 and older will be able to begin to look for a vaccine appointment. >> so elizabeth, if you could address the beginning of what jeremy just said, this goal and the ability to let everyone get vaccinated also really depends on the vaccine supply. can you tell us where things stand on the vaccination push? >> so let's talk about why this is so important. in the united states, there are 263 million americans who are age 16 and older. only 1 -- 156 million of slows to not received even a single covid-19 vaccine. 156 million of those. that is more than half. that's why it's so important that this age eligibility is going to be changed nationwide. now let's take a look at a graphic that i think explains this even better. right now, 18.8, almost 20% of the u.s., is fully vaccinated. but that's just that red chunk. that doesn't really get us close to herd immunity, which is the yellow chunk further on. even if you put in people who have achieved immunity by being sick before, because they had covid, you're still not getting close to the yellow herd immunity area. we still have a lot of work to do. now supply, this is what my sources tell me. the biden administration has been very careful about saying, hey, let's open it up to everyone. they wanted to make sure that there was enough supply. now is there enough supply? only time will tell. but i'll tell you that my sources have told me they were very careful not to open it up until they felt like they could fulfill that promise. until everybody who wanted a vaccine ages 16 and up could get one. jim, poppy? >> i'll tell you, the momentum appears to be growing. it's in the data as the shots accelerate. that's good news. and we should feel good about that. we need it. jeremy dirgesd elizabeth cohen, thanks very much. to the other story, the derek chauvin murder trial. just minutes from now, and we'll bring it to you live the minute it starts. the man in george floyd's car, you can see him there in that still frame there when the officers approached. one having drawn his weapon, you'll remember. that was caught on video. he'll appear in court via zoom. >> josh campbell joins us outside the courtroom. josh, this is a critical and interesting witness for a number of reasons. his name morries hall, someone who in previous interviews said i know that i'm going to be his voice, right, his good friend, george floyd's voice. someone who was a mentor to him. someone who was the reason he was in minneapolis and meant so much to him. with all that said, hall is also expected to plead the fifth. can you explain why? >> yeah, so we're waiting to hear from him. he'll be testifying by video. this will not be in front of the jury. the judge wants to question him, and we expect that he will refuse to testify, which is obviously a right that americans have under the constitution. but the judge wants to probe a little bit to determine why. of course, morries hall is facing his own issues on domestic assault charges but what we expect is this would be someone potentially a beneficial witness for the prosecution and the defense. the prosecution always wants to hear from people who can explain what was going on around the time of an alleged crime but the defense also is, obviously, trying to focus on george floyd and this idea that perhaps he was under the influence and that contributed to his death rather than the actions of the officers. so the defense would like to ask this witness, were you two using drugs? again, we expect that he'll invoke the fifth. we're waiting for that testimony to begin shortly. >> we're also expecting another senior officer to testify on the department's crisis intervention program. give us the significance of that. what's been notable the last couple of days is multiple fellow police officers, right, including commanders saying this is not what we were trained to do. what do we expect this witness to testify to? >> yeah, this will be a sergeant, one of the coordinators of the department's crisis intervention program. the focus for the prosecution is laying the groundwork to show that derek chauvin and all minneapolis police officers receive robust training annually in how to use force. how to handle people who are in crisis. we heard yesterday senior officers testifying about how officers are required to render assistance to people who are in distress, even if they are in police custody. again, trying to show that derek chauvin was not acting based on the way he was trained. one of the key witnesses yesterday was also the chief of police, the person who was part of writing some of these policies. he testified about what was going through his mind. his thoughts on the now-infamous video of george floyd on the ground underneath derek chauvin's neck. take a listen to what he said. >> to continue to apply that level of force to a person proned out, handcuffed behind their back, that in no way, shape or form is anything that is by policy. >> so just devastating testimony there saying when derek chauvin had his knee on george floyd's neck, that was not anything that department trained to and obviously violated the department's policy. we'll goecexpect to hear from t other senior officer to talk about that program. one thing for the defense, the judge lightly admonished the prosecution yesterday saying he's not going to allow prosecutors to call every single officer in the minneapolis police department to come in and talk about their reflections on seeing that video. and derek chauvin's actions. he's basically telling the prosecution, let's move this thing along. we're expecting at least one additional senior police officer to testify for the prosecution later today. jim and poppy? >> one thing we haven't seen is the defense call a police officer who has defended this use of force. notable. josh campbell, thanks. joining us, laura coates, former federal prosecutor and senior cnn legal analyst and chief ramsey. >> explain to us so we can understand why the prosecution might still call -- they are still calling morries hall, even though he's indicated he will plead the fifth. why do you do that? is there some hope he might change his mind or is this procedural? >> it's procedural in part but it's also to try to preempt the defense from using it to say the prosecution doesn't want you to hear from this person. it essentially moves the blame, if he does not testify away from the prosecution and onto the person that they would like to testify. hey, if you are a prosecutor, i want this person. i tried to get the person to be there. the person has had this right to plead the fifth. if there are some aspects of their testimony that might inculpate or expose them, some sort of legal liability or prosecution. they want to shift that blame away from themselves, but also the idea of scene setting here. one thing raised yesterday by the defense on cross was of the e.r. doctor, the idea of, hey, what about fentanyl use? they mentioned rectal use of drugs, what we may have been on before the police encounter. who is going to get you inside of that car? it's not the cup foods employee we've heard from before about the $20 bill approaching the vehicle. the officers did not do an exam of some kind or talk to him about drug use as far as we know. the by standers could not. so who would be able to answer those questions in the car? the person also a passenger in that vehicle. it closes up essentially that scene setting background aspect of the trial. remember, jim, it still has to be focused on the encounter between derek chauvin and george floyd because that is who is currently on trial. derek chauvin and that police encounter. >> absolutely. commissioner ramsey, to you, this moment yesterday in the questioning of chief arradondo was so striking and important. i want you to first listen to this exchange with the defense attorney questioning him. >> would you agree that from the perspective of officer king's body camera, it appears that officer chauvin's knee was more on mr. floyd's shoulder blade? >> yes. >> but then this in the redirect examination by the prosecution. >> so the knee of the defendant was on mr. floyd's neck up until the time you just pointed out. >> yes. when i view that video portion, that is the first time that you see the knee of the defendant on the shoulder blade area. >> how critical is that, and how does it make the defense look that, i mean, you can cherry pick a moment but that needs critical context that the prosecution got to in redirect. >> that's exactly what he did. he did cherry pick a moment. he showed about a ten-second clip toward the end after the paramedics arrived. what about the other 9 minutes and 19 seconds? you know, and the jury is not stupid. they know that. i mean, and so i, quite frankly, you know, think it could have hurt him as opposed to help him. but i do think, and i agree with laura, what this is going to come down to is going to be the science of the -- that you find in the medical examiner's report. it's going to be what contributed to his death. what was the substantial cause of death. was it that knee on the neck? or was it the drugs or what have you? and that's what the defense is going to really go after. and they're already trying to set it up that it was not just the actions of chauvin. it was these other factors that actually contributed to his death. and i think that's what it's going to come down to in terms of what the jury really has to go away with and decide on. >> so to that point, dr. brandon loggenfeld who was involved in this treatment, he gets to the cause of death and mentions hypoxia, lack of blood to the brain. i want to play his answer for you, laura, to understand the significance of this. have a listen. >> hypoxia is the lack of oxygen to the brain, correct? >> correct. >> and there are many things that cause hypoxia that would still be considered asphyxiation, agreed? >> correct. >> drug use. certain drugs can cause hypoxia, right? specifically fentanyl? >> that's correct. >> how about methamphetamine? >> it can. >> combination of the two? >> yes. >> you have mentioned repeatedly, laura, about the debate over the ultimate cause of death here, substantial cause because that's what the law requires, will be the deciding factor. what was the significance of that testimony? who did it help or hurt more? >> well, first of all, if i trust the credibility of this medical doctor who was saying very plainly that there are different aspects of his treatment, course of action toward george floyd. he had to try to eliminate possibilities. what he didn't hear from the paramedics was any kind of a drug overdose, but he had to concede the point that, yes, fentanyl could be a cause of hypoxia. however, you can't look at that moment and think, if you are the df defense, i've done my job. my seed of doubt is there. in minnesota, it's a substantial causal factor. itted me not be the sole cause factor. you have to reconcile that if you are the prosecution which they did to go back on redirect to talk about what did you believe was the most likely possibility for why this person's heart had stopped? we have not gotten to the meat of the matter in terms of that causal factor whether it's toxicology report or anything else, whether it's the kneeling on the neck or the back and the pressure. but ultimately, remember, we're talking about the moment in time that the officers encounter george floyd. what did they know? what did they do? even if there was another factor contributing to his death, we heard testimony from the chief and others that when you're in the custody of the police, they are required to perform a duty of care towards you. so if they -- if he was in physical duress, they were required to render some form of aid. they failed to do so as the e.r. doctor clearly stated. time is of the essence with every single moment. the survival rate of the person in custody who was in cardiac arrest who was in physical duress goes down exponentially. their failure to render aid could also be now a substantial causal factor. what you're seeing here is the defense opening a bit of pandora's box in an attempt to say let's muddy the waters. maybe it was this. maybe it was that. no matter what it is, if there's a duty of care owed while in the custody of the police, and they withheld aid for 9 1/2 minutes, you still have the makings of causal factor and the makings of another element satisfied for conviction. >> and why, as the e.r. doctor testified yesterday, did no one inform him as the doctor about what they believed were drugs in his system, right? that's a huge question building on to yours, laura. thank you, and commissioner ramsey, thank you as well. ahead, we have not seen a scene like this in a very long time. a full capacity crowd at the texas rangers home opener. no attendance restrictions despite fears of another covid surge. we'll take you to texas live. and the mlb all-star game has a new venue after it was pulled out of atlanta, georgia, over the new restrictive voting laws there. we'll tell you where it's going to be. and the u.s. kicking off new indirect nuclear talks with iran. three years after the u.s. abandoned the deal. what's at stake? what are the possibilities of agreement? we'll have an update. we made usaa insurance for busy veterans like kate. so when her car got hit, she didn't waste any time. she filed a claim on her usaa app and said, “that was easy.” usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa. with schizophrenia, i see progress differently. it's in the small things i look forward to. with the people i want to share it with. it's doing my best to follow through. it's the little signs that make me feel like things could be better. signs that make it feel like real progress. caplyta effectively treats adults with schizophrenia. and it's just one pill, once a day, with no titration. caplyta can cause serious side effects. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles or confusion, which can mean a life-threatening reaction or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. dizziness upon standing, falls, and impaired judgment may occur. most common side effects include sleepiness and dry mouth. high cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar which may be fatal. in clinical trials, weight, cholesterol and blood sugar changes were similar to placebo. if you're affected by schizophrenia, ask your doctor about caplyta from intra-cellular therapies. we do have breaking news out of maryland in the town of frederick, maryland, about an hour west of baltimore. an active shooter was reported there. police telling us one suspect is down. >> police are also saying at this point, there are two victims. this is an aerial from the scene there. you can see police and medics have arrived. we're following all the breaking details on this. we'll bring them to you as we learn more. of course, the other story we're following this morning, the pandemic. it's not over yet. but you would not have known it if you saw the crowds, full capacity crowds, at the texas rangers game on monday. >> yeah, at least 38,000. look at that. packed into this ballpark for the team's home opener. the rangers are the only mlb team to allow full capacity at games since the pandemic started. let's bring in dr. regina bessette from baylor st. luke's campus in houston. very good to have you. congratulations to baylor, by the way. and to jim, who i think won our bracket, i think i was last. >> for the record, i picked you guys to win. i had your backs. >> sorry, i didn't. i should have. but on this very serious note, look, you're in houston. you look at these images. i just wonder what you think. some people wearing masks. most folks, doesn't look like they were. >> well, you know, texas has lifted their mask mandate so it's now up to facilities and private businesses to decide how they want to enforce those things. you know, we've been living through this pandemic for almost a year and a half now. if you open the doors, people will come. everyone is ready to get out, ready to get back to life as usual, so we can't expect attendees of a game to social distance and to not gather in crowds if the arenas are not enforcing those restrictions. >> dr. bicette, new studies have focused attention not just on new variants but a particular mutation in both the south african and brazil variant. it's the e-484k mutation, the eke mutation. those studies seem to show that this weakens, not just the vaccine response but the response of other treatments that have been used for people who have been infected, including monoclonal antibodies. that's what the president was put on after he tested positive. based on what we know at this point, is this new mutation, is it a major concern? does it counteract or show signs of counteracting all the defenses that we put up against covid-19? >> it's definitely a concern, but it's not a surprising concern. we have to remember the johnson & johnson vaccine, which is the latest vaccine to receive authorization in the united states was actually tested in these real world circumstances. they tested johnson & johnson in the united states. they tested it in south america and south africa. and they noticed a significant decrease in effectiveness, especially against the south african variant which seems to be the most virulent and problematic. that being said, although the antibody effectiveness is reduced, it's not reduced to a point where we're going to see an increase in hospitalizations and an increase in deaths. the vaccines will still protect against those two end points, although, if you catch covid, you may still have more symptoms if you're infected with one of the variants. >> okay. these variants are, obviously, one of the drivers of what's happening in michigan right now. i was stunned reading these numbers this morning that yesterday in much, doctor, there were 11,000 new covid cases whereas just eight weeks ago, there were 563 new cases in michigan. do you expect that to come in the near term to other states as well? you have to think it can't just be michigan. >> absolutely. michigan isn't an island in silo by itself. it's connected to the rest of the united states. and we need to use this as a warning. and heed what's going on there in order to prevent that surge from happening in other parts of the country. more worrisome than just the number of cases increasing in michigan is that the number of hospitalizations is also sharply increasing. it's about three times what it was one month ago. and the number of deaths are slowly starting to rise. not only are people contracting covid, but they're getting sick with covid and dying from it. >> yeah. folks, don't give up your guard yet. we're so close. dr. bicette, so good to have you on today. >> thank you for having me. have a good day. >> as poppy knows, i don't get a lot right when it comes to sports. i'm a new york mets fan, after all. life-long of suffering. but i did one thing right in march madness. i picked baylor to win and that somehow put us over the top. baylor beat gonzaga, everybody's favorite, to win their first ever men's ncaa basketball title. the bears just dominated the game last night. final score, 86-70. a lot wider a lead at some times. cnn has a little challenge. we get to pick our brackets. somehow -- >> you're such a winner. >> as john berman said, i'm a mets fan. i'm used to losing. every once in a while, the sports gods throw me a bone. this was that bone. >> listen, if anyone is going to win, and it clearly was not going to be me. i blame my husband and illinois for that. sorry, hon. i wanted it to be you. congratulations, sciutto. good one. >> tell him i'm coming for him. >> last time i hand my bracket over to someone else. like i need to have the confidence to fill this thing out myself. thanks for nothing, babe. >> next time poppy and i dwwillo it together. major league baseball has found its next location for the all-star game after moving it out of atlanta to protest that state's new controversial voter law. we'll have new details ahead p. we're also moments away from the opening bell on wall street. u.s. futures edging lower this morning. the dow and s&p 500, though, did set new all-time closing record highs yesterday. investors optimistic about the country's economic recovery, especially as the international monetary fund says that the u.s. economy is growing at the fastest pace since 1984. we'll keep an eye on all of that. this is how you become the best! [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade and take charge of your finances today. find your rhythm. your happy place. don't get mad. find your breaking point. then break it. every emergen-c gives you a potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best with emergen-c. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we can't make you leave your acne alone. but we can help get rid of the spots that your acne left behind. differin dark spot correcting serum has the maximum-strength dark spot-fading power you can get without a prescription. do things differin. major league baseball appears to have a new home for this year's all-star game, according to multiple reports. the league is expected to announce coors field, home of the colorado rockies, in denver, as the new host of the midsummer classic. >> the game was, of course, originally set to take place in atlanta, georgia, but the mlb moved the game and the league's draft as well. those are big moneymakers. in response to georgia's recently passed law that places new restrictions on voting in that state. dianne gallagher joins us now with more. so this is all set. it's going to be denver, not atlanta? >> that's what the reports are right now coming out of local media at this point, jim. look, politicians out of colorado seem to be all but confirming that. cnn has not independently confirmed the move but we're told that the expectation is that an announcement will come today. according to media in colorado, that announcement will be that they are moving the major league baseball all-star game this summer from atlanta to denver. and the reasons are obviously beyond the high altitude at-bats we'll be seeing there. colorado governor jared polis issued a statement saying, like so many coloradans, i'm excited and hopeful that major league baseball makes the best decision and formally chooses to play the 2021 all-star game in denver. it would be good for baseball and good for colorado. when this announcement started leaking last night, we did see some -- to be fair -- intellectually dishonest comparisons of georgia voting legislation that just passed and the current laws in colorado. now, look, to be fair here, there are some differences when it comes to in-person voting but that's because the state of colorado votes almost entirely by mail. also some of the best turnout in the entire country. they send a ballot to every eligible voter in colorado. they also have same-day registration and drop boxes located everywhere. they have some of the best turnout in the entire country. and so we have seen some of this fall back, some of this blowback, we saw just yesterday the governor of texas saying that they wouldn't -- he would not throw out the first pitch for the rangers game. >> dianne, we're going to take you back to the trial of derek chauvin in minneapolis. just beginning now. there's the judge speaking, waiting for an appearance. and morries hall in the car with floyd when police arrested -- confronted, rather. let's listen in. >> mr. hall has been subpoenaed as a witness in this case by both the prosecution and defense. defense counsel in their opening statement specifically named mr. hall and told the jury they intend to call him and previewed what that testimony that they believe would be. so in order to avoid any kind of delay or interruption in these proceedings, i notified all parties that mr. hall would be invoking his fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination were he called to testify. i then filed my notice, my motion to quash the subpoena. your honor, at this point in time, mr. hall has no immunity. he has been provided no immunity, no protection for his testimony whatsoever. and because of that, mr. hall is invoking his fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination in several key areas of questioning that we believe he would face were he to be called to testify. >> well, let's stop you there. you said on certain areas that he would testify to. so there are some topics that would not incriminate him, is that correct? >> your honor, i cannot envision any topics that mr. hall would be called to testify on that would be both relevant to the case that would not incriminate him. >> well, that's ultimately the court's decision, correct? >> yes. >> okay. on a question by question basis, is that correct? >> yes, your honor. >> okay. all right. go ahead. i interrupted you. >> no, that's okay, judge. for brevity, i wanted to outline those areas that i believe mr. hall may face questioning. the first area where he would be invoking his privilege against self-incrimination is any activities that took place on may 25th, 2020, both before and after police arrived. >> okay. >> mr. hall's testimony in these matters would specifically put him in the position of being in very close proximity to mr. floyd. there's an allegation here that mr.gested a controlled substance as police were removing him from the car. a car, by the way, that's been searched twice and to my understanding, drugs have been found in that car twice. this leaves mr. hall potentially incriminating himself into a future prosecution for third degree murder. and specifically that's 609.195 sub division b and that statute as the court is well aware covers third-degree murder liability for someone who is involved in drug activity that eventually leads to overdose. and that statute is broad, judge. it does not just include the situation where, a, sells drugs to b, b then succumbs to an overdose. in fact it includes any activity directly or indirectly unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing or administering a controlled substance classified as a schedule 1 or 2. so that statute is broad, judge, and it has been interpreted broadly by minnesota courts. again, it's not just that a and b situation. in fact, anyone who can be pointed to as a link in the chain of distribution. someone who prepares drugs for someone else. someone who acts as a go between can be implicated in third-degree murder. and so any of the activities that mr. hall would be testifying about throughout that day and including before police arrived on may 25th, 2020, could potentially incriminate him in that charge. not to mention drug sales and drug use. additionally, the other area of testimony in which mr. hall would be invoking his fifth amendment privilege is any personal knowledge that he has of drug use by george floyd, up until and including may 25th for the exact same reason. it leaves him open to exposure on potential future third-degree murder charge. any testimony regarding his activities with mr. floyd could leave him open to potentially incriminating himself. >> all right. i think what i'm going to do is ask mr. nelson to list for the court the topics and areas and whether there's something outside of what you just outlined. so maybe there is some common ground there. so if you can just switch places. >> your honor, it would be the defense intent to inquire of mr. hall as to the following. certainly any events leading up to their -- mr. hall and mr. floyd's arrival at cup foods earlier in the day where they were, what they were doing. mr. hall's interactions with mr. floyd in the cup foods, including whether either party gave the other a counterfeit bill. whether or not mr. hall gave, sold or otherwise provided mr. floyd with controlled substances. specifically whether mr. floyd, his behavior in the car, mr. hall previously described that mr. floyd was falling asleep, that it was sudden. i would ask him questions about mr. hall's previous statements to law enforcement that mr. floyd had indicated he did not intend to -- or that he was planning on taking these pills later when they got home, implying that mr. floyd took them before they left. mr. hall describes seeing mr. floyd go for the ignition when the police arrived so his behaviors in the car when the police arrived. mr. hall, i would intend to ask him about giving false names to police officers after they were intervened, after the police intervened. mr. hall is seen on a security camera taking something out of his backpack and throwing it. i would ask him about those and what it was that he threw. and i would also ask mr. hall about his decision to leave minnesota immediately after this incident. and his subsequent apprehension by the texas rangers. >> well, let me focus on a couple of things. i think you would agree that any questions that he answers about the counterfeit bill falls within his -- could incriminate him. would you agree with that? >> yes. >> also the false information he gave to the police, he would have a legitimate invocation of his fifth amendment rights there as well. >> yes. >> and what he took out of the backpack, that's a legitimate fifth amendment privilege to invoke there. >> yes. >> flight as a -- as circumstantial evidence of guilt, you would agree that's fleeing to texas if you went into motives as opposed to simply traveling to texas that that could be considered incriminating, would you agree with that? >> yes. >> the use and posession of drugs by both of them during that day, that could incriminate him based on counsel's representation. would you agree with that? >> yes. >> it seems like just about everything that you want to ask him, except the following, you would have a legitimate right to invoke his fifth amendment rights against, compelled self-incrimination. and that being how george floyd appeared when he was back in the car and the falling asleep suddenly. would you -- >> well, the impli -- >> i'm sure counsel will see it as incriminating, but -- >> i do not believe that that in and of itself incriminates mr. hall in terms of a descriptiion of mr. floyd falling asleep but because fentanyl was found in mr. floyd's system, and it causes a person to fall asleep, that that would be ostensibly connected to ingestion of controlled substances. so remote leap, perhaps but not in and of itself. >> okay. ms. cousins, would you -- unfortunately, you don't have the benefit of having sat through all the testimony, but it appears that this would be a proper invocation of his fifth amendment rights for just about everything mr. nelson was talking about. the one exception appears to be his observations sitting in the passenger seat of the car as how mr. floyd appeared. that he was falling asleep and that it happened suddenly. very narrow. and the reason why i say that is because we have kind of a parallel testimony from a clerk in the store who said mr. floyd appeared good natured, seemed to be having a good day, but he did appear to be high. i don't even think i'd allow counsel to ask whether he appeared high because that could inform some kind of opinion and infer a basis that he knew why he was under the influence. but it seems to me that just his description, mr. hall's description of -- like the store clerk -- is not going to incriminate him if there's no questioning about how he had -- why he fell asleep, why he thinks he fell asleep. that there were drugs in the car. that he knew there were drugs in the car. that there was any possession by mr. floyd of drugs that day that he saw. if we totally avoid the word drugs and just have mr. hall say, i was the passenger in the car, which is already clear. there's video in evidence just for your knowledge that mr. hall is in the passenger seat. and is removed by the police. beyond that, if that were established that he was the passenger when the police came up to the car, what was mr. floyd's condition immediately that he observed immediately before that? would you agree that that's not incriminating if we keep all the mention of drugs or why or anything like that? >> no, your honor, i do not agree that that -- >> how would that, when that did not incriminate the clerk who said he thought he was high, how would it be that mr. hall saying that would incriminate him? >> first of all, judge, the inquiry is not what evidence is in front of the jury, what testimony have they heard. >> no, i'm just using that as an analogy. that didn't incriminate the store clerk by saying he appeared high. well, mr. hall saying he appeared like he was falling asleep and it happened suddenly, without anything else, it seems to be a parallel type evidence. i was using it as an analogy. >> i understand, judge, but the whole point here is to prevent mr. hall from incriminating himself and him even answering that question that he was in the car puts him in very close proximity with mr. floyd, very close in time before he's alleged to have ingested drugs and again, it exposes him on that third-degree murder charge. if there were to be future third-degree murder charge and mr. hall was charged with basically being involved in this drug activity that had caused mr. floyd to pass away due to an overdose, him even being in that car incriminates him in terms of behaviors of mr. floyd, what he observed when he observed it. so no, your honor, i would argue that it definitely would expose him to potential incrimination. not to mention that this is a car where drugs have been found twice. >> well, the state has all that evidence. that's pretty clear. i know we're not talking about -- but that didn't incriminate him. the video of him sitting next to george floyd does not incriminate him or not -- has not subjected him to criminal liability at least yet. >> and i think that's the key word, is "yet." >> you think given his observations of how george floyd looked would incriminate him? i don't see how that puts him closer to criminal liability just from those observations. >> it takes the onus off of the state in any future prosecutions to prove what demeanors, behaviors, attitudes mr. floyd was exhibiting should they decide to charge mr. hall with a crime. now they've got his own testimony to use against him. that's the very definition of a fifth amendment privilege, judge. >> if it incriminated. >> just the fact he testifies -- >> but his testimony would be used to incriminate him in a future prosecution. >> well, anyway, mr. frank, do you need to weigh in on this? i don't think you have a dog in the fight at this point. >> i do, your honor. we'd like to be heard briefly. >> sure. >> thank you, your honor. >> you're not going to represent his interests, are you? >> i am not. it's a fair trial for mr. chauvin. and one trial. and what we can't have is an invocation of this privilege in front of the jury. and this questioning that the court is offering or suggesting creates a huge problem. the reason why i cited the caldwell case to the court is because this questioning would not exist in a vacuum. and we have to remember, too, that the standard is not just whether this evidence itself is inculpatory or implicates him. it's whether it creates a link. i think that's what ms. cousins is referring to. it now puts him in the vehicle, and it's testimony from he himself creating the part of that link. and it won't exist in a vacuum. there would be other questioning and we'd have the right to question him about his credibility and other aspects of that interaction then that would lead, unfortunately, and potentially, to him invoking question by question in front of the jury. >> but we regularly, in fact we did in this case, in excruciating detail walk through motions limiting what questions could be asked are various witnesses based on rules of evidence. this is not based on rules of evidence. it's based on his fifth amendment rights and but limitations, i can tell you, the caldwell case is a total dlifrn situation. that is a man that wanted to testify despite that everything said would incriminate himself and didn't care until he realized he got into more trouble than he thought. i think that is the complete opposite of this case. >> it's an illustration of how, despite that witness trying to tailor his effort to meet a certain goal, it just couldn't be done. and it led to unfortunately in that case, there wasn't a jury sitting there. but that invocation, that's where they ended up in that case. we can't have that in front of a jury. and mr. hall would be faced with the question by question determination of what we're arguing about this morning. that's why sort of a blanket invocation is allowed because the standard is rather odd. >> where -- what case law says that there is such a thing as a blanket invocation of the fifth amendment? >> i can't cite it. >> i'll admit -- i'll admit, i don't think there is clear minnesota case law. but i'm looking at illinois, northern district of illinois, oregon, i think hawaii as well. a couple cases just to take a look at hillman versus city of chicago, 918775 which is northern district of illinois. oregon versus rodriguez, 301 oregon appellate 404. shackman versus democratic organization of brook county which is it 920 subsecond 881. it's clear from those cases, grand, granted, they're not minnesota, the invocation of the fifth amendment right is on a question by question basis and the legitimacy of that is to be determined by the court which makes sense. otherwise somebody that just didn't want to testify could say i'm asserting my fifth amendment rights. >> i agree with that concept, your honor. we cited the court a case where they talked about a voir dire process. with he know from his counsel that he is going to invoke the fifth amendment about the very areas she discussed. and there just is no legitimate way, i mean, there isn't really any question that all of the matters that counsel identified and mr. nelson identified are tied intimately to his interactions with mr. floyd that day and in the previous waekz and it ties him. so we're not facing a question like perhaps in those cases where it may be eninvoking becae they don't want to testify. here there is a legitimate link in the chain about what he's going to be asked about and quite a few potential crimes, not just the third degree murder, obviously being the most important. i mean we even know, you know, we talked about the sense of opposing counsel suggested that almost an alternative perpetrator. in that sense, you know, with the third degree murder, but there is also drug charges, counterfeiting, false information. and i don't know how we put on mr. hall to testify and ask him one question and then let him leave without having the ability to pursue as we normally would in a trial the credibility and the foundation for that testimony. in light of all we know. i don't think this case raises the questions that are being brought up that the court cited. i'm sorry i can't speak to them personally right now. but here there is no question that the singular questions the court is inquiring about are intimately linked to george floyd and the activities of that day, all the other areas that -- >> take a look at the case law. it's much closer to inincrimina behavior than this shackman case. it is really clear that i would not have ruled the way they did. i would say that is a proper invocation. that's not a problem. >> well, that's illinois. >> yeah. let's do this step-by-step. i appreciate your argument. i think i know where we're heading with that. this is what i'm going to propose. we're not done with this today. i think we have pretty much established or based on what mr. nelson said, there is really a very small narrow topic that might be permissible. so what i'm going to do is i'm going to ask mr. nelson essentially to draft in written question form with the expected answer based on whatever statements were made on what that would be. that way mr. hall can meet with lawyers and talk about would he be willing to answer those? then we can have another hearing outside of the hearing of the jury and walk through and see if if, number one if, i based on my review of the examination, believe that it is proper invocation of the fifth amendment rights to that or not. question by question basis. if it's not a proper invocation, is mr. hall willing to answer, despite the ruling, judge, he's not going to. he is subject to contempt then. but i think we get too far ahead when we kind of being -- let's say what are the questions that we're going to ask him. let's walk through whether i would allow it and find out if it is not uncrincriminating on and then mr. hall can meet with his lawyers. i would like that list by thursday. the state can do any indication of cross, same thing. i'm guessing what you would want to cross mr. hall on as far as his credibility and all that, well, it's pretty much up to you, mr. frank. but i think that -- since it may widen the net, so to speak, some of yours may clearly get him into fifth amendment issues. but i think we need to, if mr. nelson can get you that, you can write up your own list of questions and let's do it outside of the hearing of the jury and he has time to talk to his attorneys before we put him on then stand cold and he has to confirm with them one by one. so it's a limited -- only allow it for that limited -- and this is not a funl ruling. this is the only part that i think is possibly not subject to a fifth amendment claim. tell me what you want to ask. we'll run it by outside the hearing of the jury on a question by question basis. the court will make a determination and then counsel can follow up with mr. hall and based on the ruling are you going to testify and we go from there. i don't want this to be the last and try to push through a ruling when we need to -- we need to tread carefully, obviously. fifth amendment right is a broad one. you have to worry about links. but at the same time, if everything is linked, then it's a blanket prohibition and that is not the case law. so with that, everybody has their home work assignments. but for now, do not waste time on this. okay? >> thank you. >> five to 9:00. we'll start up at 9:15 with the jury. all right. we're in recess. >> what you just saw was absolutely fascinating and could be critically important in the murder trial of derek chauvin. here's what just happened. the defense counsel would like to question george floyd's close friend who was in the car with him the day that he was killed. his name is maurice hall. the public defender for hall says no way. that could -- that could harm my client because he faces potential charges down the road and he has a rig ht to fifth amendment protection. there is no case law that allows a blanket right to fifth amendment protection. the so defense, go back. write us a list of what you would ask him and then i'll decide on thursday. >> yes. the judge specified -- i want to get laura coates' view on this. there is one sliver of testimony that he considers outside of self-incrimination and that is what maurice hall observed of floyd in the car falling asleep apparently suddenly based on what we heard earlier as relevant to the broader case. laura coates, you heard the judge compare that potential testimony from hall to it can we already heard in the trial from the cashier in the store that was right there on the street saying that floyd appeared high. the judge made the point, that didn't incriminate the cashier for saying that. this would not incriminate maurice hall if he were to testify to something similar. do you agree with that point of view? >> the idea here is whether the jury can compartmentalize this information. whether the jury is going to be able to parse out different aspects of this. the judge is concerned and the prosecution and the defense is concerned, frankly, for this particular person is whether or not somebody who asked particular questions can invoke the right against self-incrimination. meaning they don't want to be exposed to criminal liability or potential prosecution down the road. can i answer those questions in isolation in a vacuum and then be forth coming about others without really undermining the prosecution's case, making the jury think, well, hold on. this doesn't make sense. obviously, there is now a scapegoat in the sense of something else could be responsible for the third degree murder charge they keep speaking about which is the idea of extreme disregard for human life and depraved heart, all the instance there's. so they're trying to carve out here is the questions that would be asked of this particular witness, how is it different from an observation to say the cashier who says i observe the following. now the real issue here, of course, the prosecution and the defense is what will you get from this witness? if they're only going to provide this very narrow testimony that essentially goes to one issue, one question, then is the juice worth the squeeze? and is it worth the jurors' inability to compartmentalize and understand the nuance? is it now if you're the defense here, jim, what do you want? you want

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