wall street. the dow is down about 70 points. boeing 737 max returning to flight today phil lebeau was on that if first flight we get his take and a closer look at the stock that was the worst performer on the dow this year and ou guest coming up is tilman fertitta much more, "power lunch" starts right now. >> all right thank you very much, kelly i am brian sullivan. welcome to "power lunch. we begin with the markets and your money when the futures started rallying this morning, looked like it could be a big time tuesday but that faded pretty quickly. we're not down too much, though, bob pisani, down 76 points as we head into the home stretch of 2020 markets holding up reasonably well the last couple of days and weeks. >> incredibly well we're just off record highs here the problem is that some of the market leadership, benninganks, energy, industrials that were doing terrific coming into december have lost steam how much farther can you push the markets? industrials are okay s&p 500, dealing with new highs. not a lot of news on the vaccine front. some question about whethers 2,000 direct payments will pass the senate a little drama on that we dropped in the middle of the day about when that became a little on the iffy side. we're not far off the highs. russell's been down three days in a row that's had a terrific comeback in the second half of the year in terms of sectors, i mentioned the fact that i cyclical groups are running out of steam -- industrials have done nothing for a month. energy's on a down trend once again after rallying in parts of the fourth quarter banks sort of flattish tech's been the lone star performer. everyone has been moving into techthis month tech sector up 41% the one thing we saw in 2020, new highs, just a shocking amount of new highs. look at these numbers, 21 record highs on the dow jones industrial average, 37 on the s&p, 66 on the nasdaq. that means the nasdaq spent 25 to 30% of its time in a new record high. that's astonishing overall that's a sense of how we come back in the second half of the year also want to note china's been one of the best performers of the year chinese stocks are up 25 to 30%. alibaba has finally had an up day after a horrible week or so on anti-trust concerns pinduoduo is a competitor to alibaba and it has about doubled. you see there are competitors and pinduoduo has definitely benefitted from alibaba's woes >> the boeing 737 max beginning passenger flights for the first time in nearly two years phil lebeau is live at laguardia with more. phil >> kelly, it was an uneventful flight from miami to hear in new york this is what it was like when we lifted off in miami at 10:39 a.m. eastern time this morning as we took off after boarding the flight, i would say about half the flight was full and a good number of the people who were on the flight, they were what you would call people who specifically booked this flight because they wanted to say i was on the max when it took off again but there were also paying customers who booked this flight because they were going from miami to new york and they did not know it was the max. i asked a couple of those passengers if they had any apprehensions and this is what they had to say. >> i did at first when the pilot first made the announcement, but i quickly forgot about it and it's been a really easy flight >> i felt safe getting on the plane. >> what do you think about the flight >> very smooth and all seems well >> as you take a look at shares of american airlines, keep in mind they will have most of their max planes in service within the next several months they've got 34 in the fleet. they're going to start feathering those into the schedule they have 1,400 pilots who have gone through enhanced training that's the training that's required not only by the faa for all pilots, but you're going to see that around the world for anybody who will be piloting a 737 max and also take a look at shares of boeing this is a huge day for boeing with the max having been grounded for 20 months it is now back in commercial service here in the united states, in addition to a few countries in central and south america. we're going to gradually see this, kelly, over the next several months where more airlines start to add the max to their schedule >> so, phil, this was the first commercial flight. 737 max again. was this for reporters or did you just book a ticket on it >> no, these were customers. they did the dog and pony show for the reporters about a month ago, about three weeks ago and that was a short flight from dallas to tulsa. >> i thought so. >> the significance here, kelly, is it's back in commercial service. this was a revenue flight. everybody who booked this flight, i had to pay for my ticket, everybody paid for their ticket on this floight for a lot of people who are aviation fans, it was important for them to say i was on the first max state. there were a few people who booked this flight, no idea it was a max, they later were told it was a max and american is going to let all passengers know when they're booking, it will be clear it's a 737 max that you'll be boarding and also at the gate when you're boarding the plane >> interesting phil, thanks so much it must have been fascinating being on that with everybody fill lebeau on that flight over to you, brian >> kelly, fun fact, i believe i was booked on the final united max flight march 13, 2018, they pulled it the night before i would have gone. boeing is one of the most important stocks, not only in america but in the world it is the seventh highest weighting in the dow as of right now it is also the worst performer in that index this year, just barely worse than walgreens alliance. new ceo david calhoun, could it flip the script in 2021. joins us to talk about boeing and airline stocks, aerospace and defense analyst at jefferies. sheila, good to see you again. it's a good story. the max is back in the air but is it going to matter to boeing? the orders have already been put in what's their backlog looking like >> sure. thanks for having me i'm jealous phil gets to go on that flight. the reason this flight is so important for boeing is that american airlines is the first airline bringing it into revenue service. there's already about ten globally but boeing has 450 boeing maxes sitting on the tarmac right now those aircraft valued at maybe 30 million apiece are taking a bunch of inventory on the balance sheet. so we have that inventory unwinding over '20, '21, '22 and '23. as that unwinds, it releases about $8 billion to $9 billion billion per year that's why it's so significant it's starting revenue services >> and you expect them to lose money on eps gap basisne next yr as well? will there be positive earnings in 2022? >> yes the reason is that a lot of airlines have already prepaid for these planes we're forecasting about 180 are delivered next year, they won't have to pay as much for them so the cash flow starts flowing in '22 and '23 the cash flows are about 10 to $12 billion in '22 and '23 we get about $8.5 billion in free cash flow we look out to 2024, that's a more normalized year and weep get -- we get a $300 stock as they generate closer to $10.5 billion in cash. >> let's talk about something a little more fun, which is actually flying itself for the third day in a row, more than a million people got on a plane. in fact, yesterday was 1,111,000. we continue to creep back up we're still about 50 to 60% less than this time last year the airports seem fairly full. i booked some flights this morning actually they seem fairly full based on sort of the seat map but is it going to be a story of domestic over international travel, leisure over business travel and that's why you've got -- maybe your only buy rating is on southwest >> exactly and that's a really great point you bring p. because as we're looking a the a -- at air traffic, it's down about 63% year over year domestic is down 25 and domestic is down 75 those tsa numbers hitting a million in december for several days despite the covid headlines and despite the death rates at all-time highs are really the key story here in addition to the max. so that's one thing we're looking at and that's why the reason we have a buy -- we have a sell on american mainly over liquidity and valuation. love will go into markets that were held tightly and they could take market share. that's really our thesis on love >> they're going to fly to warm spaces where you can kb sit ogot outside in the springtime and you certainly can't do that here >> coming up, the s&p 500 hitting another record high today, up 15% this year in anticipation of the reopening. but will 2021 validate lofty expectations we'll explore that and it's tuesday with tillman. indoor dining shut down in many 'lget still across the country. wel a check on how his business is holding up "power lunch" is back in a couple that's why i founded lively. affordable, 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latest phones or bring your own device and choose the amount of data that's right for you to save even more. and you'll get nationwide 5g at no extra cost. all on the most reliable network. so choose a data option that's right for you. get nationwide 5g included and save up to $300 a year on the network rated #1 in customer satisfaction. it's your wireless. your rules. only with xfinity mobile. welcome back the markets are turning negative for the day but not before turning record highs once again. the dow down about 111 points so we're pretty much sitting at session lows can 2021 now live up to all of this hype? joining us now, rachel aiken and sam stovall, cfra chief research investment strategist. rachel, let me start with you. we've been hearing anecdotally talk and we heard today of people moving into a short position on stocks have things become a little too perfect looking, do you think? >> hi, kelly thank you for having me on yes, we definitely have a market environment that is priced for perfection we have many stocks that have had strong run-ups in the market predicated on the perfect scenario playing out, as far as herd immunity in the second half of the year coming up, an economy that will pause and then continue its upward momentum, as well as corporate earnings that are going to be able to get back to the levels they were prepandemic in 2019 at the end of next year so, if any one of those kind of is not meeting expectations, we do have a recipe for a pullback. >> sam, at the same time, people's base case now is we're going to have an economic boom next year. if that's the case, you can kind of understand why the stock market has rebounded so strongly off the lows >> hey, kelly. yes, i can see why the market has rebounded. certainly august 18th we got back to break even from all of the 34% that we lost from february 19th through the 23rd we then added 19 more closing highs for the s&p 500. but as kelly said, as the prior guest just said, yeah, there are lots of reasons that we are concerned. one reason, small caps the russell 2000 is currently 34% above its 200-day moving average, which is the highest on record the growth versus value differential was not seen since december of 1999 and the s&p 500 is trading a thet a 42% premium. a lot of indicators are saying we've got to see a nice, sharp upward advance for earnings estimates and gdp to justify these valuations >> right right. rachel, we talk about the dollar's weakness, we talk about some of the sectors that might benefit more from that but also people, they're clutching on to these growth winners and they're afraid to let them out of their claws. should they. >> you have definitely seen the tale of two markets between growth and cyclicality on any given day or anyone given week we've run a portfolio that tries to take advantage of both sides of that. so again, we're continuing to hold on to companies that are in the growth category and the technology communications services that have worked well for us this year, but we also continue to hold in the portfolio and have held over the last year cyclicality in financials, in industrials, in energy so that we can take advantage of that at the core equity level but we've also been greatly diversified in value as well as growth at the other asset class levels and international both in the developed and emerging markets as well as precious metals through the entire year. we think the diverse if i have case tenet that we work with will be key depending on what asset class will work best >> sam, before we go, you already have a bunch of these good little nuggets. what's your favorite you would leave people with to mull? >> the old one of let your winner ride. by owning the top ten subindustries from the s&p 500 from the prior calendar year, hold them into the coming calendar year. you have beaten the market about three out of every four years and have done so by an average of 400 basis points per year so let your winners ride >> that is as clear as message as ever, even though apple is down today >> thank you both very much for your thoughts today. we appreciate it >> thank you happy enough year. >> thank you with stimulus checks on the way, what is maybe the one stock that could stand to benefit the most from all this money coming in? our traders will discuss or is everybody just going to spend their stimulus checks on baseball cards we say that tongue in cheek but sports card prices are starting to soar. are you maybe holding the next hones wagner we'll see you on the other side and talk about a new asset class. stick around welcome back to "power lunch. i'm seema mody for millions of merps, the last round of stimulus checks served as a lifelines, for others it offered a chance of opportunity, a chance to buy stocks security trading was one of the most common uses across every income bracket with the house voting to increase payments from $600 to $2,000, which americans can benefit from having a little more cash on hand? mark, you hold a view that rather than investing in some of the large cap tech names that have done so well, you think some of the money will go into the smaller that have a cult-like following. >> without a doubt happy holidays i'm looking at where the are robin hoodies going to invest? of course they're going to buy a tenth of a share of tesla, a deliver of bitcoin a company i own, a derivative play on bitcoin is silver gate capital. it looks more like a tech company than a stodgy old bank and they serve all the clients no other banks want to touch, thin tech and digital currency companies like coin base and ch crackin and big time companies maybe you thought i want to invest in crypto, but i'm worried about the lack of regulation so here's your answer because banks are regulated. it did pull back 1% today. with silvergate, you're getting a great company here in a brand new industry with a huge first mover advantage. i think this thing has got a long runway over theneck f next years. >> an interesting way to play the crypto currency without having to buy bitcoin. bill, what names do you think people will warm up to >> i like things working and going higher and making new record highs one of them is apple apple set a new record high quietly today. it led the way yesterday on the news of president donald trump signing the bill i'm going to stick with apple. but also look into it and the fact that you get a stock split like we've seen here early this year, it leads the way of gains to 20% to 30% over the next year and that gets close to aligning with what my target on the up side is a little bit intermediate to longer term of $170 for apple and i have no doubt they'll benefit from stimulus check. and there's a lot -- on a technical basis, i think we could see the stock get up to $105 in the very next couple weeks. i'm looking for that one to benefit and move here in the very near term again, i think you're going to see where the consumption is going to be and that's where we're going to benefit >> both of those stocks have been on a tear this year bill and mark, thank you for joining me today for more trading nation, head to our web site for more realtime analysis >> up next, it is our "power lunch" special, tilman tuesdays. he'll join us to talk about the state of his business. and another new spac why new jersey is going against the grain and maybe doing something right? and why the rockets are really, really happy with one big player "power lunch" with tilman back after this now the latest from trading on cnbc.com and a word from our sponsor. it's important to make sure your portfolio doesn't become overly concentrated in one stock or sector due to market appreciation so don't forget to rebalance your portfolio every six to 12 months to maintain your target allocation i'm randy frederick and schwab is the better place for traders. , now anyone can own companies in the s&p 500, even if their shares cost more. at $5 a slice, you could own ten companies for $50 instead of paying thousands. all commission free online. schwab stock slices: an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. schwab. own your tomorrow. is almost at the finish line today we're going to fine tune the dynamic braking system whoo, what a ride! i invested in invesco qqq a fund that invests in the innovators of the nasdaq 100 like you you don't have to be a deep learning engineer to help make the world a smarter place does this come in blue? become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq welcome back to "power lunch," i'm leslie picker. russia's covid death toll may be close to 190,000, three times its official number, which would make it the world's third highest toll after the u.s. and brazil that's based on a top government official's estimate that 80% of russia's excess deaths are associated with covid, even if it's not listed as the primary cause. vice president elect kamala harris got her covid vaccine saying she barely felt it. her husband got his shot without video cameras present but still tweeted a still photo. you won't be seeing anything like this on the day joe biden becomes president. today the traditional inauguration day luncheon was cancelled citing the pandemic. and the boston marathon won't be run in april. organizers are shooting for the fall but aren't quite ready to set a date back over to you, brian. >> leslie picker, thank you very >> it is time now for our final tilman tuesday of the year and there is so much to do, let's not waste time, let us jump right in we're going to talk about what new jersey may be doing right. this new kid christian wood, his third spac let's welcome in houston rockets owner, best selling author, tilman fertitta. it's good to see you man i look forward to seeing you in person again hopefully soon. let's start with the state of your business right now. we're waiting on the senate with stimulus, the vaccines are on the way but case counts are also up where do you stand nationally? >> you got to remember right now we're shut down in new york city and in chicago and philly and l.a., san francisco, san diego, seattle, portland, so, i mean, it tough wh's tough can only do delivery but there's a lot of southern states that business is good and we're plowing through it and we're all going to get through this. the vaccine's coming and, you know, we're looking forward to a great second half of '21 and a great '22. you know, it's going to be really good for good, well-run companies and it's unfortunate for other companies. and it's just the way it is. >> now i was down in your neck of the words recently in lake charles, louisiana, i curved and to houston what i noticed in the restaurants and areas that are open with 25 or 50% capacity, there seems to be good demand. i mean, the restaurant parking lots or the ones that i visited seemed to be pretty crowded. are you noticing in the areas that are open there is a consumer desire to go? do they feel safe? are they eager to eat out? >> they are. and remember, december is more down, even in the southern states because people still didn't have the huge holiday parties that they normally have, where in october, november, we were basically running the same numbers that we did in '19 in the southern states. but it's just december is such a big time of year with all the parties. but, you know, then you look at the states that it's weird because they're states were closed in that don't even have as high a rate as i believe texas does and it's really unusual at what's happening around the country right now, why is this one open and why is this one closed >> well, i'll say this, i'm sitting here in new jersey, tilman, and i'll give you maybe a chance to give a little praise or criticism, whatever you want, to our governor, phil murphy because normally pennsylvania, new jersey, new york have kind of done the same thing since the beginning of this. new jersey has opened indoor dining, 25% capacity but you can go out to dinner tonight, pennsylvania and new york you can't and yet thankfully our case per hundred thousand rate is actually lower than those states over the last couple of weeks. what would you say to cuomo, what would you say to phil murphy >> well, i got to give governor murphy kudos he has set there and said i'm not shutting this down again he's worried about employees, he's worried about small business and realized how hard it was for them in the last few months and here he's open for 25% where you can at least go out to dinner and the fact is is that they have a lower rate right now. and to try to tie positivity rates to restaurants, the science isn't there. if somebody can show me the sciences are i'll be right there with them. we want this all to go away. i really appreciate governor murphy saying i'm keeping these restaurants open, i'm keeping these casinos open and we're just going to be careful >> i think big difference between 100% capacity in terms of transmission and 25%. neither of us is doctor but i can assure you, having gone out to eat, there's a huge space in 25% capacity let's move on. why a third, 500 million, what are you going to do with it and will there be a fourth >> well, there is going to be a fourth right now, as a matter of fact, landcadia ii, we're really excited with all the market we're going in and online gaming, it's a changing world and this is the future it was kind of like when there was only sticks and bricks and then nevada and new jersey and now it's in 35 states. online gaming is going to be the same way and we have a great platform and we're just really excited about it landcadia 3, we have a couple of targets and we're really excited about it health insurance going to happen sooner than later. the spac is a good world right now. >> yeah, it certainly is one wonders how long that will be able to continue. the new one trading tomorrow, 500 million there. maybe you broke sot neme news. you got a fourth coming. let's move on to the sports business world i want it talk about business as well a lot of your employees in and around the toyota center, other a reas arenas are minimum wage, minimum wage going up in 20 states as of the beginning of the up in year as well. reports that kevin love in cleveland might be helping to pay for some of these folks. what's going to change with the minimum wage states? how do you manage through that and a pandemic with lockdowns and do you think that we should see more players who are making $40 million, $50 million a year each also come out with some help >> well, i can't make a decision for a player i do believe that some of our players have stepped up and done a lot. a lot of players have stepped up and done a lot during this pandemic and we truly appreciate them minimum wage is good, okay it's putting more dollars out in the world. there should be a minimum wage increase, but there should also be a training wage for somebody that is under 18 years old or under 21 years old versus somebody that's 32 years old it just needs to be done right and it needs to go gradual but it's great the more dollars in the economy, the better it is for everybody >> yeah, it certainly is and we're going to see that in 20 states on january 1st as well kudos to any of the players, some of your players have stepped up and we've seen some others step up certainly as well tilman, end on a high note here. you have john wall out, cousins is out as well, they're coming back here, you're finally coming back to houston. two games on the road. how about this christian wood kid. i know all the focus with you is on harden. but the 6'10" out of unlv of averaging 27 a game, he's going to get paid sometime >> he did get paid this year by us i just have to give it to my basketball people. that's why i stay out of it. they make the decisions. i wouldn't have known christian wood from whoever, but he is an unbelievable talent. he hit three 3s coming out of the chute last night at 6'10". he's a great player. thank god i have a group that knows where to go find that talent out there >> and i'm not implying 13 million a year is some sort of a bargain, but i will say he is off to a red hot start as well i'd love to be that kind of a bargain. tilman, it's a real pleasure to talk to you again, my friend lock forward to seeing you in person best to all of your family and everyone out there and i'll see you in houston at some point, i promise. >> thanks, brian y'all have a good day. >> take care >> brian, you've got the height going for you. after the break, a flashy wall street bet and investors juicing a recent ipo we'll tell you the names in today's power movers and the virtual event business is taking off and one company is capitalizing on the trend. don't go anywhere. 17 education & technology is a leading education technology company in china it creates a more efficient, effective, and engaging personalized education experience for teachers, students, and parents. we are so honored to have 17 education & technology join the greatest new economy companies on nasdaq to make the world a better place. say hello to a drug-free way to ease stress. stress comfort. a gummy supplement with lemon balm plus saffron, to naturally boost your mood. stress comfort from nature's bounty. 44 million shares of the online insurance company become eligible for sale today as its lockup period ends up 8.5% after double digit declines in recent sessions. and finally, the best performing stock in the s&p this month is nielsen holdings, the tv tracking firm which pledged to overhaul the way it measures audience for the streaming area. the stock is up in november and about a half a percent today brian? >> from equities to the bond market rick santelli, what do you have for us today >> it's all about debt and the dollar we just auctioned off over three days $176 billion of 2s, 5s and 7s, a record amount for that trio and what's noteworthy is how it was gobbled up, no big deal the auctions weren't pretty of but the paper is gone. unlike yesterday at 1:00 eastern, we didn't even notice the end of the seven-year auctions every day of december has included basis points in the intra day range. you see how flat and consolidated it is but it's doing it at the top of the range since march. it's hovering right there just like the long dated. we are going out at the end of the year on steep curves and higher interest rates. on foreign, change, it hasn't been a great year for the dollar because of the debt. look at the euro versus the dollar it's down just shy of 10% against the grown back if you switch to the dollar index, which closed around 9640 last year, it's down a little over 7% and it's weaker against the chinese currency, the pound. we will continue to watch how debt is squashing some of the valuations of the green back brian, kelly, back to you. >> rick, thank you very. all right. calling all cards. earlier we said go to the attic, dig out that old shoe box and go through some of your ol' baseball and football cards. there's a lebron rookie jersey why sports trading cards is big businessncagn. wee ckfter this. ♪ i saw your face in that new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed.com/home. welcome back i don't know if they ever went away in a big way but baseball cards are back in a big way. what was once a simple hobby support sports fan has become big business for jimmy mahan, former banker turned trading shop owner, it's provided a boost to his lexington, kentucky business >> they can't go to the game, can't do anything but watch it on tv. now in the pandemic, it created a focus on it. >> former collectors are dusting off their old sets and a new generation is emerging, looking for quick flips and long-term investments. >> people are dealing with trading card as an assets. the big difference between trading cards and a lot of commodities is the fact that there's a finite amount of supplies >> people are changing the wave they price cards, similar to rare art and wine. it's not just bitcoin and gold coin seeing price spikes >> if you took the top 500 in trading cards, they the s&p 500 by 153% over a decade i mean that's not a small sample size. >> just two weeks ago golden auctions sold a steph curry rookie card for 61$,000. a janice rookie card just got $178 million many are costing $100 and going well into the thousands. >> they just increase in value over time, particularly if that player performs on the court or on the field if it is a championship for example those cards continue to increase in value >> social media has become a big part of the sports card trading world. people are posting reactions to opening new boxes to see what cards are inside some of the boxes are going to get pricier. card maker panini hoops hobby box sold for 80 last season. the new one coming out will retail for $300. >> i see a theme here. yesterday we were talking about gold and gold coins going up in value. today playing cards are going up in value then there is the nfl play who are is getting paid in bitcoin apparently do we know anything about that >> that's a little bit of a pr spin the story with that player russel okung, he is not getting paid in bitcoin. they have to be paid in dollars. his people have decided to put a bunch of that money into bitcoin. all he is doing is he is buying bitcoin here at the top but he's in the actually getting paid in bitcoin. it would be like saying cnbc is going the pay new gold coins and trading cards. i think you would say i will take the dollars and buy what i need to buy with that laider >> unless it is a pokemon card that's the other one you mentioned this week. everything, it seems, is going up in value. eric chemi, thank you very much. with the pandemic shutting down live conferences, one company wants to bring them to your living room instead we will speak to the ceo of hopen about atexth nt. t love obsessing over network security? all our techs are pros. they know exactly which parking lots have the strongest signal. i just don't have the bandwidth for more business. seriously, i don't have the bandwidth. glitchy video calls with regional offices? yeah, that's my thing. with at&t business, you do the things you love. our people and network will help do the things you don't. let's take care of business. at&t. the pandemic has caused a big shift in the way that companies plan events now as virtual events now dominate. lon deny based start-up hoppin was at the right place at the right time allowing companies to run large gatherings on line it is valued at $2 billion from $38 million at the beginning of the year here at a look at our future is the founder of hoppin. it should have two ps, what gives? >> it is what we found on line. >> as is so often the case tell me about this technology and how the pandemic came at this moment that you have this zoom-like growth and how you were able to support that growth which i am sure was multiples beyond what you had previously experience. >> hop-in is a virtual events company as i said that allows people to connect regardless of where they are in the world and feel like they are in an event we were planning to launch in september this year. but what happened was last november when we rizzed our first round, november of 2019, you know, we had this long wait list of people that really wanted to be on the forefront of online events because they saw the value, being able to connect from anywhere, and engage with anyone, and attract attendees from wherever. what happened was in february there was a large influx of people on the wait list that moved from, hey, this is great and we want to be on the forefront to hey, i canceled my event in person. unless you can give us a solution to run the events, because we don't want to run a traditional virtual type of webinar. we expanded from then on we were about six people building this platform to be launched in september, which we saw a huge viral rate and knew it was going to grow incredibly fast we knew we were going to be one of the fastest growing companies on the basis of the wait list alone. but covid spread that. we went from six people to 260 people in the company and we have over 60,000 organizations across the world using us. >> i see here that we are one of them we are one of the customers, cnbc is, that uses hop-in. the united nations, nato, del, slack, salesforce. why do we need this technology i have been in a lot of zoom conferences and other kinds of events -- you know, video conferencing events this year. what does hop-in do that they doeb >> absolutely. zoom is great from zero to 20 people, talking head traditional video conferencing software allows you to get 20 people on stream and speaking with each other. imagine aggregating that many people in a room it becomes difficult to manage who is talking, et cetera. so when -- whenever you want to create an event for 20-plus people, the benefit of hobin in it allows to you break people up into areas we have created a stage, if you want someone speaking as a keynote, whether it is sessions, smaller meeting rooms, expo area, if it is a recruitment fair or you want to show off your sponsors or whatever the case it is the mod layerity it is the flexibility of the platform as a virtual event software allowing people to experience and engage the same way they would in real life. >> got it. >> that's our core fundamental functionality. >> quickly, how do you make money? zoom right now we free is up to 40 minutes or you can pay a professional subscription rate i imagine you work differently >> absolutely. we do a per registration subscription so you pay -- we have three different plans. a free plan for people to test on a middle or starter plan which allows to you really get started with hop in. then we have business plans and each of them have a monthly subscription the business plan has an annual subscription but then we also charge you per registration because that's where truly the value comes from you get to collect more email addresses and obviously people buy tickets to the event. >> absolutely. i am hoping that 2020 is a better year, we don't need hop in so much but it is clear this is the fabric of how we can do so many of these events it and opens up options for so many people good luck. >> thank you. >> so much the ceo and founder of hop in. >> you have got make the relationship, you have got build the relationships. they are different things. i think the one thing they do very well -- by the way the cnbc events are on their platform they do a great job. i met tillman 15 years ago at the milk in conference signature around, cnbc, whatever, you have got to make the relationships first, and that's best on in person. >> amen. may we all do that next year brian seal you next time thank you for joining us today brian sullivan and "power lunch." we hand it off to "closing bell" right now. >> thank you kelly and brian welcome, everyone to "closing bell," i'm sara eisen. with wilfred frost as always stocks losing steam throughout the day. dow, nasdaq, s&p and russel all lower, slipping away from those all-time highs we are at session lows what is driving the action a debate over the size of fiscal stimulus as congress takes up $2,000 checks. the future of that i

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