Down now more than 19 from the 52 week high in january as it inches to bear market. How much worse can it get for the banks . What does it mean for broader markets. Great to have you back, mel. Thank you. Listen in the spring, summer, i tried to make a bullish case for banks on valuation, price to book at a certain point maybe you spay ner cheap but maybe wrong to defend them i would say early fall i started to say maybe things arent as rosy for banks this is what you have to ask citi Bank Reported in the middle of october tangible book give or take was 62 stock is trading 56 today Goldman Sachs, same type of thing. 186 tangible book. Trading 175. If the environment is so rosy for banks why are two of the biggest trading south of tangible book . Thats a problem i thought for a while that Deutsche Bank is this generations sort of bear Stearns Lehman wrapped up in one. If it was u. S. We talk it every day. But that its not we talk about it a couple times a we can now is the citi Bank Exposure to europe the reason its trading below tangible book . Is it systemic my sense it Deutsche Bank makes it to our shores but the stocks are pricing something in. Is this the price action where you look at how they trade and think of why they are prayed trading that way if you look on the surface, things theoretically should be okay for the banks. Should he they be yield curve inverting growth slowing deregulation is over. Deregulation. You its over that story is over so if you believe that were. Banks were high back in january they didnt have a fighting chance since then. If you belief we go back to 30 to 1 leverage we are not. Deregulation is over xlf has made up all the ground to precrisis levels. Its not going higher. Banks are not going higher its over. Karen well with be. You may be the only defender. I am a defender of the banks. Long the banks and you know, the banks to me have praised in a lot of the things you are talking about plus more. I think they have priced in already a slowing economy. I think nef prthey have priced maybe regulation coming the other way. Particularly in citi there is some Deutsche Bank or beyond Deutsche Bank sort of credit question. But to me i think that all of the bad news is in them already. Its a terrible tape i understand that. But to me it comes down to valuation. Thats what i look at first. Look at pe jp morgan for example, the premiere jp morgan to me is trading cheap to the market which banks always do but also very, very cheap to itself thats really important, right they still make money. All right. The Companies Still make money thats why i want to own them. I think they continue to make money. The economy is not falling off a cliff. They will continue to make money. The last thing i like, dan hates them right. So dan has been right given that guy too also been right. Youre obviously not positive on the banks. But the xlf from the election the xlf up 90 now up 50 when you say they priced in bad news they are still pricing in a little bit more rosiness we have got now divided government so the thats where you started off saying there might be a little bit of regulation going the opposite way i dont see growth going the right way. You have the inversion. Okay. 3s, 5s maybe 2s 10s. You say there is no price at which you would own banks. No theyre still up 50 since the election a lot of stuff. What forget that. I cant. I just look at them where they are now, what are they earning. What is the decision right now . The decision right now is you still you still if you look at there is a definite double top, guy you like the double top are, right. Xlf back to 07 and back to now there is a distinct double top around the po range sticks out like a sore thumb look at that. You have citi bank in the xlf in 07 which is one tenth. Forget that do you think we can go back to prefinancial crisis levels in the financials were things rosier prefinancial crisis levels than they are now the prices were different where traded were the different in terms of the multiples. Were you able to right there we were pricing in nothing but rosy skies. Pricing nothing rosy skies with a leveraged balance sheet. Levered. Right. Exactly thats my point. Let me finish with a downside. Okay. So right, so if you had that kind of downside that they have then you would have had to have more upside. Right. This is a very different risk reward scenario very different. Perfect example you see that leverage and you say they had a tremendous downside i see the leverage and say thats the only reason why they were making the profits they were making and that leverage is never coming back. 30 to 1 is not coming back. Im not arguing for 30 to 1 i dont think they should have that leverage. Without 30 to 1 you never see the profitability come back to banks. Thats why theyre a sell. Thats not what you are saying. Thats not what im saying. Im not saying they also wouldnt trade at the multiples they traded at then. What im saying the noer scenario that made member buys and Growth Stocks has now is now off the chart and now theyre utility stocks. You dont like you dont like them. Ever dan nathan is here. I feel like you should because youre cited as a bullet point on karens the fact you dont like them. I felt a lot of the negative points that you guys have all made the last seven minutes you didnt want to include me in, you know, thats kind of been my bearish view for this year but i actually want to take apart that third leg of your bullet here. You know, you can. Dan hates them. Yeah, you can back in 2015 and 2016 appear you can look at the environment where there was a lot of similar things going op chinese equities were in free fall crude oil in free fall small caps in free fall. Interest rates were going down then all the way town to below 2 , the 10year that sort of thing there was uncertainty going on a lot of weak price action and the dollar was kind of rising then too. So think back to period. Citi bank, bank america, wells fargo, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley all down 30, 40 all the stocks x out jp morgan are down between 25 and 35 now you can make the argument we have seen the price action before in the recent past. And maybe they are getting to where they are so hated bulls are throwing in the towel a little bit we could be getting to a point heading to the new year where people make a stronger Valuation Case and where we see a period with less volatility with the other risk assets around the globe. Are you way li saying there could be a period that is favorable. Im trying to be contrarian you couldnt have been as berric in the lows at 16 about the bank stocks and they were ready to go up 50 within 70 over the 18month period. Why were they ready to go up in 16 they were ready to go up because of deregulation. They bottomed well before that at the bottomed in q 192016 i want to make a point i understand what happened since late 2016 why that happened. But at some point in early 2018 investors started discounting all the bull cases, even that dan hates them, and at some point we could be getting ready especially as the calendar turns when investors think about what are some most hated, cheap and potential catalysts theyre contrarian that is obviously this group. You asked an interesting question are we looking for reasons i am because i dont know why. Because it doesnt make sense. So people make the comparison to the financial crisis when actually the Bank Balance Sheets are different. The Systemic Risk is much different. I agree i dont know the reasons i know the stocks have not performed well i could say that Goldman Sachs is Goldman Sachs specific. Probably is. I could say it isty is citi specific due to european exposure but why is wells fargo making 52week lows appear Morgan Stanley. 52week lows but somebody like keith parker a guy like him would know. You think so . Oh he is here. The financial fallout one piece of why this market cant rally our next guest keith parker says the stocks are cheap and if history is an indication now could be the time to buy keith is the head of u. S. Equity strategy at ubs great to have you with us. Thank you for having me. Why do you think the financials are trading poorly and are you bullish on the financials weve been neutral so we had the valuation support but in terms of drivers of fundamentals we saw expectations for marjing too high slowing top line growth and risk around Interest Rates we have a significant flattening of the yield curves. 5s and 2s get to a level worrying for the banks i think whats discounted now trading at a 40 discount where we were in sue and 6 a lot is priced in. You need that positive catalyst and some expectations of profit fwroe growth and i think the real bull case i think banks are asked to act like utilities they dont pay out like that and if you dont have the big r. O. E. Like last cycle you need to deliver on the dividend a and payment on investment. You need to get patient to get to that point. You sound like almost in the camp where you look at price action and you think, things should be okay for the financials, valuation should be okay they look like they priced in a lot. Are you also grappling with that sort of scratching your head saying why is this group close to bear market territory at this point. I think you could say that for banks. You could say that for industrials, semi conductors its across the board a big derating and cyclicals stand out. We did some work history karri where we get it wrong the multiple earnings are up over 20 this year and the market is down. We have had a bear market in the multiple whats interesting, if you look back historically we want to ask ourselves what happens next year does the market get it right what was interesting is that median returns and average returns in the year following are actually 16 well above historic averages. And only two years of negative returns. Why are you saying to buy the market right now if 2018 wasnt a great year for stock investors or basically any asset class investor did not do well, right . I mean across the board. And it seemed like everything you had every tail edwin going for the markets. Why should 2009 be different. The d rating in equity markets and assets in general is first Interest Rates rose. And we see a pullback in the rise in Interest Rates and well get another indication from the fed and chair powell next week. And so lower Interest Rates should support asset prices, all else equal the slowing growth and worrying about growth and the cycle particularly outside of the u. S. Has been a big headwind. And again i think we see how it goes but u. S. Fiscal and Holiday Shopping here should help the rest of the world. Pan lastly trade we have now between now and march with a number of political nuances in between to potentially provides out that trade risk. Do you worry that window in 2019, if there is some sort of resolution as it relates to trade is so short because we get back to the uncertainty, get back to a political environment here where i think corporate you know corporates are going to be kind of, you know, a little cautious here and then the last point you made about the u. S. Consumer here in the q 4, it seems the whole Global Economy is resting on the u. S. Consumer shoermd right now. And that seems a dangerous place to be. I think resting on the consumers shoulder, is it are they delivering . Signs are they are do they have the potential to deliver more in the First Quarter based upon Lower Oil Prices and what we have done on tax refunds could see incremental 1 boost as a percentage of income and then on the point on trade, what we would say, is it shortlived, i think port part of it is pricing out first the deescalation but chinas done something they stimulated the economy since june to fend off the potential impact of tariffs. Ant u. S. Also has fiscal stimulus playing through in 2019 we wouldnt expect that to be as short lived if there is the followthrough and growth doesnt come in as bad as feared. Have you published the outlook for 2019. We did, published it november 13th when the market was plus and minus 2 so its tough. And the yearend 2019 target is. We are at 3,200 10 plus return from where we think we can end the year. But obviously trade, growth and Interest Rates are the key okay. Thank you, keith good to see you. Keith barker of the ubs. Its a tresh rouse time to be a u. S. Equities strategist. Yes. Having to put out forecasts, right. But who better nan a guy like keith parker i was going to ask him we goodbyed the guest. I clearly said goodbye. So im not bringing him back . Thank you. With we might see 3,200 where do we go first i think steve submits we retest the lows 25, 30. I think a reasonably chance. Pete najarian said last night and i agree. Volatility is too cheap in the environment. And dan would agree. This is not political comment but i dont think this is pricing in something out of the mueller investigation. Not political. But its definitely hanging out fl. Do you think we test february lows by the end of the year . Yes i would like to see them tested the only pr problem you have with testing by the end of the year. Three weeks for 100 points on the s p. Any buys off off shut downs with goodbyes. You want to buy that the problem i have with test something not the time frame its just that people take off a lot of time around the holidays. So no one ever pushes down a dull market. So people are not at the desk. You dont get liquidity, the opportunity for selloff. But i would like to see them test it prior to the end of the year. Coming up, there are just 12 days wsh 12 days until christmas. Where is the santa rally for retail the stocks getting crushed today. But a top technician says dont stop believing plus General Electric surging bab after Jp Morgan Says the worst is over for the industrial giant. Can you trust the bounce check out starbucks, a hit after hours. Lowering the guidance moments ago. We bring you the details live from times sqreua new york city. Much more fast money right after this aflac . Nogood break. Gooood break. Im so sorry we cant make your barbecue. Im just sick about it. Aflac . Different kind of sick. If i cant work after surgery, how am i gonna pay my rent . All these bills . Aflac oh, aflac and they pay you cash in just one day. See how aflac helps cover everyday expenses at aflac. Com. What if we could turn trash into money . Plastic bank is doing just that, by exchanging plastic for digital credits redeemable for everything from food to education. Powered by ibm blockchain. When you understand the potential of new technology, you can put smart to work. Theres no place likargh e im trying. Yippiekiyay. Mom. Welcome back to fast money. General electric is lighting up having the best day in a month following an upgrade from the ge bearing, jp morgan lifting the rating from underweight to neutral. Still maintaining the 6 price target adding that the stock is near a bottom it did hit a financial crisis low, 6. 66. Happening on tuesday before bouncing off the level with shares of g. E. Down 59 this year is it finally bottoming out. I dont think you could say its finally bottoming out until it bottomed out and has conviction its bottomed out but the s p bottomed out 6. 66 as well that sign, its a terrible number, a negative number. And i think in analyst was just didnt want to go to the well one too many times he had a great call on the stock. And this is not an overwhelmingly bullish call on it but maybe the worst is coming to an end, not over yet. I think that is sort of his point. He said that there are known unknowns at this point that the market is pricing in a lot i think sentiment has really driven the stock as well the idea that a material a Capital Raise is overhanging the stock. He says it probably still is but bryced at this point. Well its a good call by him. Yes. Sort of looking at his how do i manage this good call, you know, you cant fault someone going to neutral even if it goes lower. I wonder if cheers broke out on the floor of g. E. When somebody went to neutral. Looking at this stock its sort of do you think that sentiment is maybe changed that could be enough to really move it . I dont know that the fundamentals have changed enough for me to get onboard. I had leaps of 19 that it goes to zero 20, january 20 that it will probably go to zero. The risk reward has changed but a lot of downside. Jim cramer said its the best analyst job he mass ever seen. Probably a lot of truth to that. Still a 6 price target which if my math is correct about 20 from where we closed today. The and bear Market Scenario is 5 he said. And the bear Market Scenario is 5. Yes. And the problems General Electric had two days ago still exist today. I think the move you saw today makes sense for different reasons. But i think it was people that have been short the name just covering up because why not, if the analyst is going neutral why but i think there is a good chance when they report january 18th that the seven handle you enjoy today is a low 6 handle. Whoa. I think its one of the names where there is so much debt here and its like such a deep end of the pool sort of stuff that keeps selling off things giving away the groups keep rotating management new restructuring plans. Its better ways to i think put money to work in the market right now. If you are the sort of person that said i like a 3, 4 position in something going up 100 if i get a lot right the next year or two do that you know where you are stopped at 7. Its not going to zero either. Buts in going to be a long slide. I will tell you this, though this is a stock you could look up and february 7th next year and could be at 9. 50. And easily and no one is wrong or right or anything thats the way the stories go. Still ahead, retail a in turmoil ahead the holiday stretch as the Group Continues to get slammed but a top technician says now is the time for bargain hunting he tells us the best names. Plus casinos are crapping out. The stocks under pressure even the short seller jim chen o is telling us whats behind the big bet. Much more fast money right after this welcome back to fast money. The retail wreck rages on. The etf tracking the group, xrt falling 3 now if bear territory. Bob pisani with the details. Hello, melissa. Another ugly day for retailers we did this tuesday. Big brands like jcpenney kohls macy down 3 kostka of down after hours Tailor Brands owning mens warehouse reported weaker sales appear lowered fullier guidance down 30 at one point. Children place best buy, tiffany, jewelers, auto sellers like auto nation, penscy automotive. Group one automotive near 52weeklies preponderate retail, the xrt, a basket of Retail Stocks in the s p 500 also at 52week low. Thats also among the most shorted etfs on the street whats the problem well amazon is an issue. But retailers rose in the summer on signs that the retailers were Getting Better at playing the online game. Online sales are indeed growing faster for all the companies and the companies though need to invest in both stores and in online thats a problem its expensive and increasingly hurting margins. Thats probably the biggest issue. Then the macroissues, the concern is that this may be as good as it gets with Comp Store Sales which improved this year and even broader concerns we could be in the later stages of the upswing in Consumer Spending you add in high labor costs we are seeing additional transportation costs. And it means not a lot of earning growth with a corresponding drop in margins. Real tough situation back to you, melissa. Sure is bob, thank you so are any of the names worth buying on the dip . Whats behind the decline we have seen in karen what do you think. Tailor brands has put that aside process but oxford i dont put aside. That is a real read through to macys qb kohls whatever. Disappointing. Macys has been getting attacked the balance sheet, think how improveds it the last couple years and insiding the debt buyback. This multiple of i dont know, eight seems really overdone to me not we cant go lower. It could but i mean of that sort of todays du jour disasters. I think macys which i do own i would be a buyer of macys. Its all a disaster i think bob surrounded the trade. He gave you everything the rally over the last year before any topped out about six months ago had to be getting houses in order. Made the investments in omni channel and seeing growth. Here is the thing less than 10 of u. S. Retail sales are ecommerce. Amazon is getting 50 of all the growth no matter the investment, target, macys all these guys they are continuing to do it and we continue to see weak margins. Doesnt mean they are buys. They could be. Im just only on a 10 its shocking to me when you hear i always think its more than that. One point the biggest e the commerce player got a government subsidy to open headquarters on the east coast. All the guys spending all the money. Hurting the margins they have to compete with a government subsidized amazon. Com. Just canary in the coal mine. They are signaling as you said at the top there is something wrong with the economy. For more on the retail wreck lets go off the charts. The todd gordon of trading analysis. Com hey, todd. Lets look at the xrt you talked about double tops i have a good one in the xrt at 52 here we put in a big nasty double top and backing away back from 2015. So i like the story about that you get the point. How significant is this double tip and will we continue lower this is the weekly chart then lets drill down and get more granular on the daily here is the xrt on the daily what you see is we have lows right at about the 43 mark. This is one of the retracement levels we are trying to hold. I dont think we will. We loobl we head lower one more level at 40. 50. Ill save you the gory details if you dont hold 40. 50 we go lower. Xrt, xps, maybe if we go back the ratio is in the decline. Basically that means the xrt retail is underperforming the s p on the downside. Thats okay we stay here i say its weak as a trader. I want to continue to short and step on these weak names, l brands what a disaster of a chart here. 2day moving average in a clear down trend we tried to hold as resistance we have High Pressure looks like we should move down. Go to the weekly charts look back at 2000, 2007, 27. 5 was a hunl breakout level. We need to to hold in l brands if you dont talking 18 years of support just lost it looks like if the overall market moves lower and retail l brands could continue kohls really strong stock this guy put a triple top in i hold this in the portfolio broke the 200 day. Come back to retest resistance i was talking about in the makeup room with karen this guy looks like we should not be long but short. I say stick on the short side of the retail in the very uncertain market. How does amazon look. Not that good either. And we should be recovering. But for me, im actually look to set up shorts. I see amazon i hate to say it from a technical point of view, beautiful. If a technical point of view i dont want to to say this im getting skewered on twitter for saying this. We dont have support until about 900. Wait, what. Im not saying its hpg happening from a technical point of view if we go lower from ha chart point of view thats where support comes in thats saying its happening but amazon is not performing in the period of tech outperformance its tech holding us up. But amazon but it doesnt look good for me on the up side i would not be buying when a technician like yourself says 900 is support like what has to happen for a stock thats 1,600 and change to go to nine hundred. Its are scarey i have the same conversation myself on apple. If i take a cold hard objective look at apple we cant get a bounce off 170 we dont have support in apple until 140 granted 30 as a of 170 is no where near the drop in azmodan but if the market cant get a bid soon there is lower levels to come. Im in the trying to be a controversial. Not trying to scare. But objective and trade what i see not what i think and Technical Support doesnt come in for a ways lower s p 2,400, 2350 thats where you who will the uptrend support thats been in place since the credit crisis low. If you dont hold 2350 i know grasso is looking for a point. If we break the february lows on s p 500 the cenex stop for amazon is 90 and apple 140. Im not saying we could find support doesnt mean if we break 16 we goeg below if you dont hold 2350 on s p fieftd on any pusher thats big trouble. Todd gordon of trading analysis. Com. Guy adami. Yes, melissa. I was at the top of the show i welcome you back people on twitter you werent that ee fusive yes. Well there were no balloons or confetti maybe you werent. Fair point. What do you think of todds call. I mean, i think you know its interesting, the Retail Sector dan nathan talked about the xrt said its the worst chart he has seen in the career something stuck with me from bob a few minutes before bob gordon mentioning costco. Lets talk about it bottas its been a darling but you now you look and say does valuation matter . Now as 27 times forward earnings after this quarter where on the first look looks like they beat on eps but then down a little bit, actually missed, margin lower, membership fees disappointed one has though wonder this was a vital coug in the retail space. You lose costco you got to rethink. At 28 times forward earnings its not get going done. The amazon call is interesting. Lets take the 900 out see where it started the year. 1,200 bucks or so. Still up 42 on the year whats most important to mary in with the fundamental lock and the macrolook lets say broke the lows going to 2350 and if it hapz in late january when they point the q 4 results. They gave revenue guidance 5 below consensus if they dont hit that and guide down again its going back to 1,200 in a weak market. Thats how you mary the inputs i dont know what has to happen. A lot of things. But the stock is up 40 on the year. When todd talks about support levels and he talks about longterm support levels there is a bunch of support levels but theyre shortterm. Its 1,400 1325 a lot of speed bumps if we break the lows be with 2532 we go to down in the 23 in the s p taking the high fliers down with them. Great haiku. Precipitously. A whole line in that. The ceo sitting down with mad money jim cramer talking about how the company is transforming the cloud business. With he bring you the comments idcebucks lower after lowering guan a hot stock, but will it cool off . More fast money straight ahead. I still cant believe how incredible the screen is on the new iphone xs. And our unlimited plan really takes things to the next level with your choice of the best in tv, movies, or music. Its the perfect holiday upgrade. I know what im asking santa for this year. You still write letters to santa . No. Please. I send him emails. Can i get his email address . Oh. I dont feel comfortable sharing it. Get the iphone 10 s and our unlimited plan with your choice of the best in tv, movies, or music. More for your thing. Thats our thing. Welcome back to fast money. Shares of starbucks under pressure in the after hours session. The company lowering the longterm guidance moments ago our kate rogers is in new york city at the coffee giants investor day hi, kate. Thats right, we are in new york city at their investor day. Starbucks coming off a strong Fourth Quarter they did reiterate the full 2019 guidance including opening up 21 Net New Stores but as you ms. Henninged the stock started to fall after the new cfo disclosed the longer term financial targets, consolidated Revenue Growth of 7 to 9 and jauchted eps of 10 down from Prior Guidance of 12 . Now the company also made a big announcement today in that its teeming one uber eats for delivery across the country here in the u. S now this comes after start bucks tested delivery in both tokyo and miami with uber eats today they announced the expansion to nearly a quarter of the u. S. Company operated stores, beginning in early 2019, starbucks does partner remember with alibaba in china for delivery, with elmay on demand food delivery. We got to chance to sit down with Rosalind Brewer on the uber eats announcement. Here is what she said about future profitability. Its one fortunate things we evaluate because it does cost more to deliver coffee but i will see and tell everyone is that you you know we see an expanded ticket. And that average ticket is really what we need to see happen as we approach delivery we are encouraged but actually monitoring that very carefully. I also got a chance to sit down with the companys ceo. Kevin johnson earlier in the day. He said right now his focus is on doing what starbucks does best and creating the big Strategic Partnerships that complement what the company does best from alibaba in china to the Nestle Global Coffee Alliance and now uber eats. Back to you. Thank you, kate at the starbucks meeting in new york city guy what do you make of starbucks and the push to delivery it costs a lot of money to deliver one cup of coffee. They took the eps guidance down you have to ask did it stev the 22, 23 multiple . Certainly doesnt now. Look in june the stock went from 57. 5ish down in a straight loan and spent the rest of the summer getting that back earlier a couple months ago the stock went from 57. 5 to 65 in a straight line. It does exactly opposite over the summer revert back to the mean. The mean has been around 60 you can do the math and that multiple makes sense but at currently levels it it doesnt. Fills the gab are gap for the downside but you look at other side, duncan brands that looks more stable on the charts only up 10 year to date while starbucks is up 16 . But coffee they sort of trade together but duncan brands mass a less gappy chart. Karen. Its okay what guy said, neither explosive growth nor a really cheap multiple its okay it will do splar to the market sort of uninspiring. I thought the c. O. O. Comment about delivery was interesting expanded checks, right its not about driving one cup of keefe coffee its about something somebody im getting a flat macka lacka and five other people say yes but i would say coffee delivery is not intuitive. Its not. Its like not then fant they are similar issue with digital ordering it screws things up. You want to add food. They want to do food. Im not as fancy. 1986. Thats when i did shall did when i started working and one of my jobs was making. Coffee. You had to make sure. Umhum. I can if i could do it 32 years ago im sure starbucks can do it. You were a coffee boy at 32 years old. Thats where with we are going. Tomorrow. Tomorrow dont miss jim cramers interview with the ceo of starbucks 59 a eastern time. Adobe lowering on the tare up more than 40 this year. We tell you what that is coming down to earth. Plus casino folding today at the short seller says he is short a number of names. But one trader says he is adde wrong. Find out why when fast money returns. Welcome back to fast money. Casino taking a hit today at famed short seller jim chanos tells sara eisen the trade war and slowing has him shorting the space. Recently we added new and old names. One area im scratching my head about it the ma cao. Who are you shorting. You know the name wynn sands. Las vegas names. Hong kong listed asian operations and then in the hedge fund we are long the chinese operators. These stocks have gotten crushed all down 20 or more are there signs of a turn around what do you make of chanoss bet . It seems like a concentrated bet on the china economy, trade war, as well as the notion they might lose concessions. And jim does thoughtful work. But he would say erwin which is trading 115ish but it trades up to 150 he would still short the stock. As a trading show, i think there is actually some room to continue to bounce the upside. He would agree with that as well here is stocks i mean wynn has gotten eviscerated trading below 100. I think there is a bounce up to the 120. Although he is right in his fundamental analysis, i think the real pain to the upside. Damage is done in las vegas and wynn mgm is the only one that might have a little bit of a rocky road but it appears on a clarity that all the bottoms near term are in and the risk to the upside especially with china trade. Dan, where do you stand on this. I dont think jim looks at charts thats my point. Jim jim has been i have all the respect in the world but jim sees so good in china he was wrong for years. You know one of the things is like mel is lead in was the famed short seller he has had some famous shorts. They do a lot he said to sarah we are long these guys and short these guys. I think they do good work. I suspect. He has been wrong a lot of times. Its difficult for a short seller to be right because the shorts never outweigh the longs. So you could be right on one off here and there he has ha a terrible call on china for years. This is his time to shine. This is his year that he is. I disagree. I have heard him talk about it with people look how Anyone Running the hedge fund, running long short, running the the exposure were wrong a lot. Its unfair because he does goes upon the show and says im shorting. Just stating a fact thats it. Okay. Coming up, check out shares of adobe volatile after hours. The ceo sitting down with jim cramer moments ago we bring you the comments. Live at the nasdaq in times square much more fast money still ahead. Theres no place like home argh im trying. Yippiekiyay. Mom. Quarter. Unilever home depot the Home Initiative with sap helps customers do more with their data getting support from walmart and cocacola opinion and the acquisition of marcato which he says widens the lead in Customer Experience management in all industries our own jim cranium her sat down with him and asked about the key revenue drivers. Take a listen. I think were absolutely in the sweet spot of two massive shifts happening creativitity has never been important. And when you think about creative cloud, to your point we drove 19. 45 billion of net new annualized revenue in the year, a record for us. What when you think about Digital Transformation in every enterprise trying to engage customers, that grew dramatically. So for much more of the interview check in tonight on mad money where jim cramer talked to the ceo about this report im sure more. Back to you. Josh, thanks. Josh san francisco. Dan is bearish on the stock. On valuation. And i think one of the things that i think is shone over the last month look at workday and salesforce and results by adobe he said it there every enterprise is doing the Digital Transformation let me tell you who else is doing it. Every government these guys are in a sweet spot you look at adobe and growing earnings and sales 20 a year and all the recurring revenue and they are signing up new fortune 100 companies every week you say at 30 times how do you sport this stock to me i think this is a pocket the sas names that are going to outperform the broad market. Wait im sorry to understand if 30 times dont short it. What im saying its hard to short because i have growth and the original price and they are at a secular shift that doesnt seem to be slowing. If you look back at last three earnings cycles in adobe trades down right after and ratchets up had a great year technically it had a gun run in the earnings cycle maybe you see Something Different action but i would expect the stock to back up a bit if the overall market hangs in there you bet back on adobe up 40 year to date maybe that dont change. Steve is right. Look over 3 4s yes you go back a couple of years and rallies into earnings sells i dont have a week and a half two weeks later alltime highs which has been adobe story. Josh is gone i know he is in san francisco. Yes i said goodbye to him. I love josh lipton. Yes. Great beard. Thats the thing. It looks like it needs to be groomed a bit. Its getting ratchet in my opinion. I just said that on live tv. Would you say it behind his back. I would have said it. Now it sounds like you are talking trash about josh. Would you rather me lie no. I thinks he is a hand some man. Would you rather, josh beard or no beard. Trade or fade. Lets stick with the cloud. Oracle reports earnings on monday after the bell. Options market hinting a big move dan what did you see in the action yes oracle reports the december 17th after the close. The Options Market imply base a 3 move either direction about 6 and that is rich to the Fourth Quarter average of 5. 25 one of the interesting things talking about adobe. It had a high implied move. Not doing a lot. Volatile in the after mack now up a few bucks it bounced in sympathy with workday up 13 on november 29th after good results and salesforce on november 27th up 10 . They got hit hard with nvidia. High valuation and growth nailed they came back adobe does underperform that next week oerk sell different. Stock unchanged on the year down 11 from the at thatweek highs in june. Up 11 from the 52week lows months ago s in a Company Growing earnings and sales low Single Digits at best the only growth they get is when they make the multibilliondollar acquisitions im not expecting a lot. There is the oneier chart you can seasideways. Look at the fiveyear. 45 downside looks like important support. This is not a market where you are not growing and you want to miss and guide lower because you will get punished. Injury 80s one up, two down scenario for these guys next week flew for options action check out the full show tomorrow 5 30 p. M. Eastern me next, final trades. See thats funny, i thought you traded options. Im not really a wall street guy. Whats the hesitation . Eh, it just feels too complicated, you know . Well sure, at first, but jj can help you with that. Jj, will you break it down for this gentleman . Hey, ian. You know, at Td Ameritrade, we can walk you through your options trades step by step until youre comfortable. I could be up for that. Thats taking options trading from wall st. To main st. Hey guys, wanna play some pool . Eh, im not really a pool guy. Whats the hesitation . Its just complicated. Stepbystep options trading support from Td Ameritrade grasso. You know whats outperformed everything xlu, utilities i think its kinning to outperform up with the up market. Up with the down market. Xlu, utilities etf. Chairwoman. A lot of twitter, dan ire and what not jp morgan. I like it here if im long it going in, im same as buying it right here i think its on track. There is no ire here, karen if i were buying a bank id buy jp morgan all day and on sunday. But you would never do that. No. I think jp morgan at 95 listen i think the costco guy was right. Sell it. Wow. You know i love josh josh is watching. You couldnt have just emailed josh and told him about the beard inof broadcast going to the nation. In the united states. Traders. Bristol myers yoloediku ok le i didnt know. See you back heretomorrow a 5 00 jim cramer starts right now. Make you money im here to level the Playing Field for all investors. Theres always a bull market somewhere, and i promise to help you find it. Mad money starts now hey, im cramer. Welcome to mad money. Welcome to cramerica other people want to make friends, im just trying to save you money. My job is not just to entertain but teach you. So call me at 1800743cnbc or tweet me jimcramer. Its recession no, its boom. The economy is falling off a cliff