Slavery had been abolished, two years after the emancipation proclamation. Meantime, President Trump ready for a planned rally saturday in oklahoma, where 100,000 protesters are scheduled to gather in oklahoma. Protesterstipolice ahead of the president is first rally in months. Meantime, big tech in the spotlight amid scrutiny at home and abroad and charges with the eu. Joining us now is the leader of u. S. Antitrust efforts against microsoft back in the day. Gary, thanks for joining us. Lets start without strong you believe the eu case against amazon is. Gary pretty strong, based on everything we read. The eu is going to charge with amazon with misusing data it gets from merchants on its site. Think, is going to claim amazon uses that data to help amazon make copycat products that compete against the very merchants they are supposed to be supporting. The press has done great analytical reporting, and it appears that exactly the cake that is exactly the case, based on interviews with former amazon employees. It seems on the facts, it is a clear case. On the law though, it may be different. Emily amazon is denying the charges. How good is the amazon counterargument . Some ofazon is denying the charges. About a year ago, emily, and executivecutive an setting sworn testimony before a congressional committee, that amazon wasnt doing any of this. But then the wall street journal and other publications found amazon was. So it is hard to evaluate amazon denials in light of that. Amazon says they are investigating what is going on in their own company, basically. Emily the u. S. Is looking into big tech, including amazon. How much of what is happening in the eu will affect the course the u. S. Government is going to take . Gary it is going to have some publicityt from a point of view more than anything else. In thetandards they use e. U. , emily, are different than the ones used here. And basically, legal standards in the eu make it much easier to bring charges against a company like amazon, and other platform kindsers, for doing the of things amazon is alleged to be doing here. In the United States, we have rather convoluted legal rules for antitrust. Those favor big defendants that can make the case difficult and draw it out. It is less likely you will see these kinds of actions in the United States. U. S. meantime, the government is also looking at facebook, google, apple, and not just the u. S. Government, but various states. The house antitrust committee, we will speak with the chair of that committee, david cicilline, later this hour. How much of a case does the u. S. Have against Tech Companies . And are they so vast and sprawling that we cant consider the private anymore, more like Public Utilities now . Gary they are bigger than things we have camped at have encountered in the past in antitrust, all although although the standard oil antitrust case was close. A goodmittee has done job of investigating these issues and keeping them front and center, but the committee cant bring charges, it is important to understand that. Thesemmittee can air issues and mixture and make sure antitrust enforcers understand them, but the executive branch or the ftc has to actually bring the cases. Emily do you believe there is an antitrust case here, and is there one company that is more egregious to the other more egregious than the others . Has beengle investigated, i think, the longest and hardest. And chances are google would have been sued the United States government, but for political influence. At least that is what a number of big newspapers said during the obama administration. So the case, depending on how it is brought, might be strongest. In terms of amazon, that is interesting as well, not just because of the retail platform, but because amazon does comparable things in the cloud with aws. And that is something to really keep an eye on. That has enormous consequences for the future of commerce in the United States. Are questions remaining about whether the ceos of these companies will testify. According to our reporting, zuckerberg andrk another ceo agreed to testify if others testify as well. It sounds the same with jeff anys, but apple hasnt made promises about whether tim cook would testify. Do they have a choice . They technically, yes, have a choice. For the most part though, appear before executive committees because of all the fallout if they dont. It took jeff bezos a while to agree, and he has a particular problem because of sworn testimony by one of his executives a year ago, which didnt turn out to be accurate. The apple situation might be different, although there are all kinds of rumors the eu is investigating apple for its behavior with respect to apps providers. It will be an interesting hearing if it goes forward, and i assume it will. What as a result of this, is the likelihood big tech is actually broken up . We are in the middle of a pandemic, and for all the criticism of these companies, they have been critical that keeping us connected during this difficult time, not just a health crisis, but economic and social crises. How likely is it that the end result is that these companies are actually broken up . Gary you are certainly right that the Big Companies have tried to position themselves in this time like general ford like General Motors and ford did during world war ii, going to bat for the american public, helping us. But of course, over time, there are a lot of problems with these Big Companies. If they are broken up, it is not going to happen overnight, it is not going to happen when the pandemic is going on. There are a lot of things that could abuse their market position that dont go all the way to being broken up. But if somebody is going to be broken up, the spotlight would be aimed on google first, chances are. Emily gary reback of carr and who led the effort against microsoft back in the 1990s. We will be back with more bloomberg technology, after this quick break. This is bloomberg. A Fireworks Company is launching a covid19 Pandemic Response program to create capacity for largescale testing. A Biotech Company that specializes in genetic engineering is rolling out an initiative called concentric that will provide services for businesses and educational organization. Joining us now is the ceo of ginkgo bio works, jason kelly. Thank you for joining us. Tell us about the program. Jason emily, can you say that one more time . Howy tele so tell us concentric is going to work . Idea ishe key workplaces and schools trying to reopen in the midst of an active pandemic in the United States. What they are trying to figure prevent outbreaks in the community of people im responsible for . Things like ppe, social distancing in the office, but the other thing is regular testing to identify, if an outbreak is starting, you can isolate into people stay home before it spreads to a workplace or school. That is the idea behind concentric. It is to start offering more widespread screening attesting to the community, as we all live with this disease. Emily how do you imagine regular testing is going to work . Is it something employees and students are going to have to go through every day before they go into school are going to the office . N jason it wont be every day. The problem was that we needed a lot of clinical diagnostics in the first, acute phase of the pandemic, when you had doctors making decisions about people and whether they had covid or not. At we built up about 300 about 300,000 tests here in the United States in the past three or four months. And now, we need much lighter weight testing. Ideally, it would be a nurseadministered swab, it would be something you do yourself either through your mouth or nose and it would be collected at your workplace, you wouldnt have to go anywhere, and depending on how acute the outbreak in your area, you would do it once every week or two depending. Ed you could actually model that, we have done epidemiological modeling to know, but that would be a good idea. Emily what has been the interest from companies and schools so far . There is still so much uncertainty and many of them dont know how often they are going to have to do this, and for how long. Jason yeah, it is really hard. A ton of interest, but people are confused about this, i think rightly. Because the last time we dealt with a pandemic at the scale that we closed on the Global Economy was in 1918, 100 years ago. So of course we dont have the infrastructure built to do this well. So we are seeing a lot of interest among schools, especially those trying to open, but also major employers. It is partially a work safety issue, emily, and it is also business continuity. A company had to shut down 6 of poulter production, tyson, in the u. S. Ford had to shut down its assembly plant. Businesses that want to stay open in the middle of this will need some regular testing to do it. Emily you have partnered with other bostonbased i o Tech Companies, including modernity, a covid19 vaccine candidate. How is the development of the vaccine going so far . Jason im excited in general about all these nucleic acid vaccines, a new type of rna to that uses dna or quickly to bring Clinical Trials to prove that works. In a pandemic, it is really valuable. The challenge with vaccines is, we are hoping to have them at the end of the year and they have to work, give them to Healthy People and then you have to make a lot of them. We are hoping for the end of the year, but it could go longer. That is exciting about largescale testing, in advance of the vaccine, if you have enough screening, you could essentially beat this before you have a vaccine. You would need to go from 400,000 clinical tests a day to something closer to 5 million or 10 million of these lowercost screenings. But if he did that, you could get rid of this and get back to normal in advance of a vaccine. Uphink with congress coming on a stimulus bill, i bet they put a lot of effort in that direction, for that reason. Emily and yet there is so much about the disease we still dont know. I know scientists are working together in unprecedented ways, but how likely do you think it is we have a vaccine before the end of the year . Jason the end of the year would be by far the fastest anyone has ever done this. We should cross our fingers for it, but plan for next summer, in my view. We are seeing a resurgence of the disease in various states and countries, new waves in places that havent been hit for. How concerned are you about the resurgence of covid night teen or fourvid19, three waves over the next couple of years . Jason extremely concerned. Here is the thing people are missing. Of leaves and bed a bunch of fires pop up, and some countries put them out quickly. We didnt. We put some of them out. But even countries that have them out, they are still sitting on a dry bed of leaves. And as soon as there is a little fire, youve got to have a Fire Department to put that out. At this goes for every country, not just the u. S. Where we have more operate. More outbreaks. You need huge amounts of testing or, how are you going to control this thing . It is as hard because biological problem of a scale we havent faced in 100 years, but the better we are at admitting the scope of the problem, the better we are at getting ahead of it. In the United States, we could achieve it if we have the will, screening and tracing and isolation, and if we had that, it wouldnt even need a vaccine, or it would be less important. It can be done. Emily and good to hear the work you are doing on testing, jason kelly, ceo of ginkgo bio works, thank you. Jason thank you. Emily turning to juneteenth, companies and people across the country are commemorating today like never before, giving employees a company holiday, asking them to spend time educating themselves and reflecting on the long history of racism in this country. One of the companies is uber. Today i spoke to tony west, one of the most senior black executives in this country, chief legal officer at uber, although he worked at pepsi and in the department of justice. Listen to our conversation from today. Been experiencing it like most others, and that is , going from the shock and outrage at what we saw happen to usrge floyd, and for many of who are black, it is a familiar out rage because we have seen this play out so many times before. You move from that to seeing the great activism and energy of people out in the streets, and a diverse crowd at that. You see a diversity in the throngs of Peaceful Protesters that you havent seen before in other protests around black lives matter. And what you see is Incredible Energy from all sectors, not just in the halls of policymaking, but also from huge energy tech, around how we make sure we begin to finally grapple with issues of racial inequality while promoting Racial Justice . So for me, this is a really important moment. It is a really important moment ch topportunity for te lead. It is important we take the energy and urgency and dynamism of this moment, and we channel it into longterm commitment that will result in longterm, systemic change. That is the challenge right now. Emily i am curious what your experience has been, bling the most senior black executive in the room, often the only in the room, except he especially going from the department of justice, where your boss was barack obama, and in silicon valley, where we know there are few black investors and entrepreneurs. Jason it is not that unique experience for me to often be the only black person in the room, or around a decisionmaking table. My experience at the department of justice, working alongside eric holder, working for president obama, that was an aberration in my professional life. Usually, the room didnt look like that. And my experience is very typical of so many people of color, black and brown people of color, or so many women who find themselves as the only one in the room. They become the exemplar. And you carry a lot of that with you, you carry a lot of that burden with you. You are very mindful of what you are saying and what you are doing and how you are acting. It can be used by people to frankly, make judgments about others that they dont know. So you carry a love that with you. Is, whenost important individuals have the opportunity to be in positions where they have an impact, where they cannot truly make a difference, that they take that opportunity and exercise that the agency to do just that. It has been a very high priority to make sure wherever i am, particularly if i am in a position of leadership, to bring my values diversifying the workplace to that position. Thes something i did at department of justice, something i did at pepsico something i am legalat uber, building a team, pride and ethics team, security team, that reflects the great diversity of our country. Emily no secret it has been a tough time for cooper in the midst of a pandemic, laying off a significant number of people. How do you manage diversity issues in a crisis . it becomes even more important. You have to make sure that as you are restructuring, and you have to downsize, that you are paying attention to diversity and inclusion, just as you kate attention to it as you are building up. The other thing i will say is this. Diverse teams are stronger teams. We know this. The research is clear. They make better decisions, they bring perspectives into the room that are very important, they can lead to more financially that,sful firms we know others have done the study, so the data is there. And we also find they contribute to a stronger culture, so when companies go through difficult times, like ours did, like so many have as a result of the covid crisis, the strength of our culture really becomes incredibly important. I believe the fact we have had divers voices around these tables and in the organization has made us stronger from a cultural standpoint and helped us withstand the difficulties we are facing now. It as you go through restructuring it downsize, you have to Pay Attention to diversity and inclusion, just as you do when you are growing. With so many issues policing happened on the road, and given ubers scale, uber is interacting with police as well. As any of the recent developments made you rethink ubers relationship with the police . Some protesters call for defunding the police. A unique andnjoy special relationship with Law Enforcement, where we have been able to help Law Enforcement ,esolve crimes like kidnappings breakup Human Trafficking or sex trafficking rings involving weeding and girls, that we want to build on that kind of relationship. But we are very mindful about we have data,when we go through a Legal Process and make sure that as we are sharing data, we are doing so in a way that does not reinforce some of the institutional, systemic racism that has too often infected the culture of Law Enforcement. When people talk about defunding what i have heard as the most common definition of that is looking at how we are making our communities safer, and making sure we are putting funds into those things that make our communities safer. I have spent nearly half of my career in Law Enforcement, as a prosecutor, at senior levels of the department of justice as well, and i have always believed make communities safer, you cant arrest or incarcerate your way to a safer community. That takes a much more holistic investment in things that actually create strength in communities, things like economic security, things like educational security. It is an important conversation for us to be having about Law Enforcement, what our priorities are, and how we get it right. Emily uber chief legal officer tony west. Tech considers him one of its biggest threats, chair of the house subcommittee, representative representative cicilline, is next. This is bloomberg. [ sigh ] not gonna happen. Thats it. Im calling kohler about their walkin bath. My name is ken. How may i help you . Hi, im calling abou