Talking about boris . Well, it hasnt actually really got going yet. So i do think that from today and we had, you know, Robertjenrick And KemiBadenoch Sort of trying to be nice to each other this morning here in the studio i do think by The End of today theres going to be much more focus on the different candidates and what theyre saying. Some of the very interesting things that Kemi Badenoch has been saying this morning, for good or for ill, and i kind of think once they get into the next few hours and the meat of the contest between all four of them, that they will get more attention. Its a funny thing, though, isnt it . Its not that bitter. I mean, laura, on your programme, you got Robert Jenrick and Kemi Badenoch to try to talk about the ways in which they disagreed. But it really is sort of disagreements in emphasis. You think of Conservative Leadership campaigns, and theyve had quite a few over the last few years, they over the last few years, they became incredibly personal. Certainly have. But also some previous Labour Leadership campaigns have been pretty personal as well. I dont think were there yet, and i know that some of the candidates not all of them are a bit frustrated that this week its basically a Hustings Bonanza in place of a conservative conference, but theyre almost always speaking one after the other. There still arent really those gloves off moments where youll have them standing on stage together, competing to do each other down in front of the conservative Party Members. Because we can all remember Rishi Sunak telling Liz Truss she was making a mistake with her Growth Plan, her go for Growth Plan in the leaders debate. No, no, youll be pushing up Interest Rates to 7 or whatever. He predicted what would happen with Interest RatesRishi Sunak has completely been silent from debate for the last three months. I was saying to laura yesterday, you Cant Move for a headline from tony blair. So what did Kemi Badenoch say today that made headlines . Well, her really eye catching statement, ithink, this morning i expect will provoke a lot of conversation is about when it comes to immigration. Shes essentially saying that the uk should take a dim view of accepting people from cultures which she describes as being less valid than our own. Now, to say that a culture is less valid than another, obviously, in a country that many people see as something that is multicultural, where there should be respect for all cultures, clearly she knows, and many of our newscasters will know, that lots of people are going to find that controversial. However, her point, which we asked her about clearly is, well, what do you mean by that . Who do you mean . She talked about cultures where women were not seen as equals, and she even talked about somebody, you know, people on the Election Trail already living in this country where she knocked the door, somebody said, im sorry, youre going to have to talk to my husband, she used that as an example of a culture that is less valid than the Western Culture that she thinks that people coming to this country should have. This kind of territory is traditionally very, very tricky and sensitive for politicians. I think she absolutely believes it. I also think from a political point of view, theres a calculation here that it is the kind of thing her campaign believes many conservative members would like to hear and find interesting and provocative. But i think also theres a Bit Of an element as well that her campaign, i think they kind of know they havent been making the running even though that she started out as the favourite, and they think, actually, we have to get on to the territory of immigration, where robertjenrick has been running the game so far. I think youre totally right, laura, that robertjenrick� s campaign has basically made the running since the sunday after the General Election, when he appeared on your programme. And i think in a way that people, conservatives who were gaming out the inevitable Leadership Contest in the Run Up to the General Election, i dont think they would have expected Robert Jenrick to dominate. I think people in the know saw that he was a strong candidate, but they didnt expect him to dominate. But he really has the last two and a half months, i mean, he has been the one who has an argument and has therefore been able to sort of make the running and the Leadership Contest. Kemi badenoch, who would have been seen as the favourite in earlyjuly, certainly has lost some of that momentum. Shes also just got fewer mps supporting her than robertjenrick has. And so thats the funny thing, isnt it . With this week theyre playing to tory Party Members this week. But actually the next two rounds of voting are still going to be conservative mps. So Kemi Badenoch, in her appearance with you today, laura, is trying to appeal to conservative members. But in the first instance, shes trying to show conservative mps that if they put her through to that final stage with conservative members, shes the one who can beat robertjenrick. Its actually quite a complicated dynamic. And we had this morning Penny Mordaunt, the former Defence Secretary and also the former chair of the tory party, Jake Berry. You know, theres a lot of formers knocking around the tory party these days. Theres a lot more formers than currents, arent there . Yes, there are. And Penny Mordaunt tried there are and Penny Mordaunt, who is going to take on a sort of role in trying to rebuild the party around the country, was being sort of very regally diplomatic and didnt want to say anything rude about any of the candidates, let alone the two who were sitting next to her here in the studio this morning. But Jake Berry didnt give personal criticism, but he did say very clearly he warned the party against becoming a Campaign Group or a Pressure Group on immigration. And i dont know if you would agree, henry, but i think there are a lot of Tory Mps who will have listened to Kemi Badenoch this morning and thought. Ah, saying that some cultures are less valid than others . Im not sure about that. Im not sure about the territory that that leads us towards as a party. These are difficult issues. They are sensitive issues and i know newscasters will have their own views. Do let us know as ever, but i think some mps will have heard that and thought, im not sure about going down the path into that kind of debate. There will be others, of course, who say, well, good on her. She says things that other people wouldnt dare to, but ijust want to give you a flavour of a couple of viewers this morning, because people have had a really strong reaction. Weve had an email fromjames, saying, laura, most people i know would absolutely support her view on our country and integration. But then a different email from another viewer has said, what a pair of nasty individuals they are. I hope neither of them get further in the race. So thats the response of a different viewer, andy, to the focus on immigration from both of the candidates who were with us this morning. But crucially, laura, i would hazard a guess that the second contributor there is not a conservative Party Member and probably is not even a potential Conservative Party supporter. But thats always the tension with these Leadership Elections, isnt it . Youre playing to mps, then to Party Members, but with a view in four and a half years time, to being the person who has to play to the country. And the tory party for the last decade has had to wrestle with how to deal with the right. And we were talking yesterday about ukip and then the brexit referendum, which David Cameron thought would see off ukip. Now theyve got Reform And Theyve got the questions of immigration. And William Hague has posited for a long time, hasnt it, that the Members Shouldnt be the ones who pick the leader. There should be a Rule Change, because every time it goes to the members, they pick Liz Truss. Of course, Worth RememberingWilliam Hague was the Conservative Leader who introduced the Rule Change, which gave conservative members a vote for the first time. So its clearly his sort of political penance that this is now his view. I mean, there are lots of. Do as i say, not as i do. Right, and there are conservative mps, i think lots of them, who agree with William Hague privately that they should have the sole right to pick the Conservative Party leader. There are far fewer of them who are willing to say so publicly. I think another thing we might see, by the way, at this conference. I mean, i will be fascinated by what the membership looks like, and notjust the membership, but a slice of conservative Party Members who are willing to come to the conservative Party Conference. Because, you know, clearly, this is. Were not in an era of mass political Party Membership in the way that we were sort of 60 years ago, but were certainly also not in an era of political Party Membership at levels that they were when William Hague first gave conservative members the vote in 2001. And also, for me as a viewer and a listener, im not with. Im not there. I know youll probably be going up, henry, and youll be seeing it is that the voters have just delivered such a massive Punishment Beating to the Conservative Party that there isnt even a leaders speech. Rishi sunak� s showing up like, you know, like hesjust delivering one speech, laura told me, at a members event. Its incorrigible for me that theres no Conservative Leaders speech. And thats a reminder of how quickly were living in sort of Tardis Time since the election. Well, and also you spoke to conservatives maybe a month ago who would say, ooh, a bit worried that this Leadership Election� s timetable is a Bit Off. Its a bit odd to choose your leader three days after the budget, three days after a leader has a chance, Notjust In Parliament but on bbc one, to give their economic prospectus to the country in a once a year opportunity. Bit odd that theyre choosing the leaderjust days before the us president ial election. I think now that labour have endured a few weeks of political difficulty, the most serious political difficulty since Keir Starmer became Prime Minister, youve got even more conservative mps saying they have really messed up here by not having their new leader in place. Could you imagine, given whats happened in the labour party, whats happening in the government, and well come on to talk about that if the new Conservative Leader were announcing themselves to the public on wednesday, rather than taking part in yet another hustings a month before we finally know who they are. It would have been a gift wrapped up with a beautiful Velvet Bow and delivered to them on a golden platter. It would have been an incredible opportunity. But as you say, theyre still talking to themselves. The Flip Side of that, of course, is that they want to put them through their paces. Theyre all going to be doing dozens of events and speaking endlessly at Fringe Meetings and on the platforms. So they want to be sure they make the right decision. But, you know, the idea that theres lots of Tory Mps who actually havent worked out which ones their favourite yet, uh, is suddenly going to learn something new. Well, i dont know. But, you know, we talked about it yesterday. There is huge potential for one of them to, you know, do a cameron and have a massive victory or have a massive disaster this week so they either could propel themselves freshly to the front of the pack or have a complete shocker and write themselves out. So well see what happens in the next few days. So well move to what henry has just mentioned, which is troubles for labour, many of their own making. I mean, a bit like when Rishi Sunak called the General Election in the rain, its pretty much rained on Keir Starmer, politically. And one of the things thats happened most recently is Rosie Duffield. The semidetached Labour Mp has now become completely detached. She spoke to laura, so forgive me for sort of newscast splaining. But heres what she said about her her letter in which she said awful things to and about Keir Starmer. He can absolutely afford his own clothes. We all can, you know, and ive seen journalists asking him and he hasnt answered. He hasnt actually explained i and he doesnt have separate meetings with backbench mps. So were watching the tellyl the same as everyone else. And i havent seen anything. That explains why thats okay. And then to see us cutting the money to people who earn a fraction of what we do, ijust. Its mass hypocrisy. I cant be a part of that. Clearly extremely stinging criticism from Rosie Duffield for Keir Starmer. I think youre right to say, paddy, that she was a semi detached Labour Mp to begin with, and one of the complicating factors here is that its simultaneously incredibly surprising and not surprising at all. Right. It is not surprising at all because she has been in open dispute with the labour party, especially on womens rights, but on other things, both Organisation And Policy for years under successive leaders. She didnt like corbyn and she certainly didnt like starmer. On the other hand, to do this within three months of a general Election Victory and for all the reasons that she said in her resignation letter, and to laura, ie things to do with the recent rows over freebies and so on, is really quite something. I mean, she will have gone. Suppose Keir Starmer calls the next General Election about five years on from the last one. You know, that means three months as a Labour Mp under whose banner she was elected, and four years and nine months, most likely, as an independent mp. That is really unusual. Weve seen mps become independents before. Weve seen them defect directly to other parties because there have been some speculation in the past that Rosie Duffield mightjoin the conservatives, which shes not doing, it seems. But to do so so early in a parliament is pretty unusual, to say the least. And i think the two things that actually are really significant from it, as you say, and we should absolutely rightly say this, she is not somebody who has ever been a fan of Keir Starmer. Theyve been fighting about things for a long, long time. However, what i think will particularly hurt is how she describes that many backbenchers feel that somehow the leadership is not in touch with them. They dont communicate with them. Theres a sort of high handedness about how they operate. And she said that activists and mps are being exploited and laughed at by the leadership over this sort of. And she talked about greed being more important than making a difference. Now, i think its important because, she says, according to her, that this is a widespread view across the backbenches, so that Spells Trouble ahead. It is also an absolute gift for Opposition Politicians to throw back at Keir Starmer, say, look, even one of your own quit over what youve been up to. And i still think, you know, the governments got a problem with the perception that theyve created around these donations that have emerged in the last few weeks. The second problem, i think that will really stick in the craw of a lot of people is what she says about the culture around Keir Starmer. Now, henry, you probably heard it as well. You know, for ages theres in sort of labour circles, people have talked privately about The Lads around Keir Starmer and The Lads being in charge and a sort of group. And a sort of group, that image thats created is a group of sort of quite arrogant men all working for starmer, all quite pleased with themselves and all really a bit too ruthless and maybe also a bit too clever by half. Rosie duffield has said on the record that she thinks Keir Starmer has a Women Problem and that The Lads are in charge. Now, im not saying thats true or not, but for somebody to say it on the record, Thats Something i think thats really going to cut through. The lads are in charge i think, is the phrase that merely might cut through, particularly with women, but also with a lot of members of the public and with a lot of people in the labour party. I dont know, henry, if you would, if you would agree with that. But i thought, ah, that is something that really might stick here. I absolutely agree with that. And the sort of Lads Dispute actually isntjust one between Labour Backbenchers and the Labour Leadership. You have people working in the government who will say to you privately, oh, The Lads working around the Prime Minister, you know, even within downing street there are people who dont like what they see as The Lads around Keir Starmer. And that all gets into all the stuff we were discussing last week about sue gray, who is, you know, self evidently not a lad. And some of the people that she might have brought in to replace some of The Lads. Can ijust pick up on one thing that Pat Mcfadden, whos a senior cabinet minister, one of about a dozen people who some people call the Deputy Prime Minister in all but name in this government, something that he said in response when interviewed by laura. And its not the fact that hes too old to be a lad, which is in itself an interesting debate. Hes 59 years old, by the way. But he talked. And im saying, by the way, i think being a lad is a state of mind. I dont think its to do with what year you were born. But there you go. I agree, and i think, i think there probably is an upper age limit on being a lad, but i dont think 59 is it. But i agree with Pat Mcfadden that hes not a lad. Anyway. No, not anyway. Lets come back to it, make your point and lets come back to when you can be a lad. Yes, yes. So my point is, or Pat Mcfadden� s point, is that i actually think he said something quite significant to laura. He talked about changing the rules on the declaration of hospitality. And bear with me, this is all a bit intricate. But at the moment, if you are a government minister, you can essentially choose whether to declare hospitality you receive on the mps register. That means it gets put in the Public Domain within a couple of weeks. Or on the ministerial register, which means it gets published on a dark recess of gov. Uk about six months afterwards. And Pat Mcfadden said today, for the first time, that this government is going to reform those rules so that ministers have to declare them on the parliamentary register, too. He was essentially claiming that under the conservative government, under a change introduced by David Cameron, youd have a Shadow Minister and a minister at an event and only the Shadow Ministers would be declared and only they would get heat for it. Now, i know that all sounds technical, whether it makes much of a difference, i dont know. But i do know that people in government see this as their attempt to finally acknowledge, actually, something has to change here, that they didnt take this Freebie Row seriously enough to start off with. And this is them trying to draw a line under it with a promise of a Reform And Move on. Lets see whether they actually can. Because, i mean. Thats absolutely right. And i think that will be the News Story out of Pat Mcfaddens interview today, actually. So weve been banging on about lads or not lads. And i agree with you, paddy. I think we should discuss this. And i can see now columns being written about lads, there will be whole podcasts about how old do you have to be to be a lad and all of that stuff. But youre right. I think thats the News Story out of Pat Mcfadden is, after more than a week, well over a week of embarrassing revelations about donations in the past, the government is finally moving to say, oh, ok, well change the rules. We should also, though, tell our listeners and viewers that this Rule Change wouldnt have made a blind Bit Of difference to the donations and the Tens Of Thousands of pounds that labour politicians accepted and then spent on their wardrobes. Um, but it is that acknowledgement that something had gone wrong. And Pat Mcfadden also said theres been a squall. And actually, in my mind, Thats Kind of the first time somebody as senior as that has put their hand up and kind of said, oh yeah, actually, things have gone a bit wrong. But this is the substantive point about the cut through from freebiegate, because the chancellor, Rachel Reeves herself, listed clothes as support and then changed the categorisation from support to clothes. So shes the woman who has got to do the budget, and she did write down and her people approved that clothes was support. So it doesnt matter if labour changes the rules. Theres a smell and the lids come off and the voters dont like it. And its so acute for Keir Starmer because of course, over the last few years his whole thing was im not like them. And then lo and behold, and im not saying there is a direct equivalent, but lo and behold, in terms of taking free things, there is for many voters and we know that because we hear from people who watch and listen to our programmes there is an echo of what went before. I think thats totally right. I think when you have a government that was elected on a time for change platform, defending itself within three months on the basis that it is behaving in the same way as its predecessors behaved, that is a government with a problem. I think Pat Mcfadden and the Labour Government are probably right that absent fresh revelations, they are going to be able to move on in the short term from this. But i think that sheen thats been wiped off Keir Starmer so early in his premiership, its very hard to get that back. I think its very hard, to mix my metaphors, i think its very hard to sort of recommence your honeymoon if he ever really had one. And i think that means that theres less goodwill when, as Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves keep telling us, more tough choices are going to have to be made. That is the problem. They will do so with a much depleted reservoir of goodwill. So we look ahead to the budget on october the 30th. But also, laura has said and youve said, henry this is a Prime Minister who could find hes defined by Foreign Policy much sooner than he thought he was going to be. And so we on Radio 4 have been delving into the history of The Middle East, and we spoke to a man, jim muir, whos in whose career theres been ten precipices, ten crisis crossroads. But this time, Keir Starmer went to the un and made a speech as, funnily enough, did the americans, saying ceasefire, diplomacy. And we now know that the israeli Prime Minister, benjamin netanyahu, authorised the final strike on the hezbollah leader from new york. So america and britain have been completely ignored by the israeli Prime Minister. Laura, did you address this today . Yes. We had tom fletcher, who was the former ambassador to lebanon from the uk, who also worked for three different Prime Ministers in numberten. So hes been around the place. So we asked tom to explain why this was such a kind of big and dangerous moment, and also to tell us a bit about Hassan Nasrallah, who was assassinated in that israeli strike. And he told us actually, even when he was working in lebanon, that Hassan Nasrallah could have taken him out. He could have taken me| out any time he wanted. And he took out many of his opponents. He exercised enormous hard power, street muscle, but also soft power. He controlled the Social Infrastructure in the south, was an extraordinaryl communicator, a sort of malign genius. And were now waiting to see whether the hardliners in tehran, in Tel Aviv and elsewhere will dial this up, which would have horrific civilian consequences. I think one thing thats interesting is that for all that were saying, Keir Starmer is going to be defined by Foreign Policy here, he hasnt actually said anything in the last few days in public on this. Nor actually has david lammy, the foreign secretary. Joe biden and kamala harris, the Vice President and democratic nominee, did release Statements Yesterday in which they actually, for all the. Support . Were talking about them being overruled. They did not express the slightest Bit Of. You know, they expressed concern going forward about escalation, but they made clear that they were pleased that nasrallah was dead. And they said it was, you know, some Measure Ofjustice for his many victims. Small Measure Ofjustice. And i think it would be really interesting if Keir Starmer is willing to say the same. That said, i mean, you mentioned, paddy, your guest, who, you know, spoke of a dozen precipices, if thats the plural in The Middle East over the years i would just gently ask all of us in how many of those has the uk Prime Minister been actually relevant . Im sure the various uk Prime Ministers in those Dozen Conflagrations said stuff, but its the sort of challenge for Keir Starmer is that hes expected to commentate and expected to get brits out safely, if need be. Of course, thats a very core role, but is he actually influential in 202a . I mean, well find out, but its just an interesting thing to think about as he gets sucked into doing more and more Foreign Policy. It is. What will people here in the uk actually be feeling as a result . Sorry. It is. And in this situation, as well as weve seen just in the last few days, actually, western diplomats thought that they were maybe on to something with this notion of a 21 day ceasefire. And of course, in The End, netanyahu didnt listen at all and authorised this strike for good or for ill. So there is that kind of diplomats who are working hard, and they were hopeful, and they thought they were going to get somewhere in the uk and the us and the french, and they had backchannels with the israelis. And then in The End, israel says, well, were going to do what were going to do. I would recommend if you missed It Paddy and i had a long chat with frank Gardner Yesterday about this, who filled us in on all lots and lots of the backstory about whats going on here. But its an interesting question, isnt it . Prime ministers in this country very rarely get Brownie Points for doing anything on Foreign Policy, even though it can take up lots and lots of time, Energy And Effort for them in terms of the, you know, the inbox of all the other gazillion things that theyve got to do. And andy in West London has written, hello, newscast. With the war in ukraine and the conflict in The Middle East, can the World Deal with another flashpoint opening up what would happen to the West And Americas ability to maintain order . Could this be the beginning of a more global conflict . A bit gloomy, i apologise. Of a more global conflict . And i say, andy, theres a great Interview Laura Kuenssberg did with the head of nato. And it boils down to this. The global order is changing. Theres a new alliance in the world. Were not predicting a more global conflict. But we have heard, laura, that the pieces on the chessboard are aligning in a different way than they were three, five years ago. Thats right. And so i would say to andy, as youve said, much more eloquently than im about to essentially, it may all be connected. And thats the Thing None of these pockets of conflagrations of conflicts are seen in isolation anymore. Henry, do you have anything to add . Should we move to The End . Promising to come back to The Lads issue. Sounds good. Yeah, yeah. So, are you a lad . So ive got to ask if youre both lads. Obviously i rule it out. I think you kind of lads, as in, youve got to kind of give it up unless you meet your friends from school and then you are 60, then you can probably call yourself lads, but you cant really be a Lad Nudging 70, can you . Ive just withdrawn. Were you ever a lad, paddy . I mean, ive done some laddish things in the company of friends, but i dont think i would. A lad is a thing you can opt in and out of. I would say so, yes, because youre kind of like weve all youve got those moments you can memorise and think, oh no, did that actually happen. Uh, whats your answer, henry . Uh, whats youranswer, henry . Are you a lad . Well, let me answer it this way. Ijust cancelled taking part in a Stag Do in order to cover the announcement of the tory Leadership Election results on november. Days ended with that decision. So we say thank you for making it to The End. Please get in touch with us on all the issues and goodbye. Goodbye. Newscast. Newscast from the bbc. Some spots here have seen more than their average September Rent full. Notably to the start of the week through the middle of the week through the middle of the week things will settle down, it will turn dryer, some sunshine. So things looking up and temperatures will return to the seasonal average, too. In the seasonal average, too. In the meantime this is the rainfall including Elation Chart for the next few days. More wet weather especially in the south than there could be some more flooding over the midlands, heavy downpours here, the ground already saturated. Its all because of this deep area of low pressure is rolling in from the South West of the rest of the night, bringing heavy, persistent outbreaks of rain, especially over higher ground. Strong, gusty winds over the southern flank there. If you show us further north, but generally it is drier and a milder start across the board than we saw over the weekend. That low continues to be pumped into the area of High Pressure out towards the east, so it will store, and that is so it will stall, and that is not good news where we see the recent flooding, because we have more Heavy Rain falling on saturated ground. Some of the heaviest downpours of rain on monday could be across the liverpool bay area, stretching across the midlands, North Midlands in particular, down from south east yorkshire, through into Northern Areas of east anglia, towards the south. Then it will dry out and winds will gradually ease down, and towards the north, we see a few were scattered across parts of scotland and northern ireland, but generally a lot drier here. But it will turn drier, particularly out towards the west as we had to Monday Night and tuesday. Clear spells starting to appear in the slightly chilly start of a western areas than we see on monday morning, that Underneath Cloud and rain, still very mild. Then on tuesday, our low pushes into the north sea, High Pressure starts to build in to the north and west, and we will see that later on through the week, but starting on tuesday, outbreaks of rain across east anglia. A brisk north easterly wind, but towards the north and west, there will be brightness and spells of sunshine, perhaps a few shows, but generally dry and temperatures will start to pick up, and it looks largely dry on wednesday, thursday and friday. Goodbye. Live from london. This is bbc news. Israel widens its offensive with Air Strikes on yemen, hitting Power Plants and a Sea Port, in response to Missile Attacks on israel by the iranian backed houthis. More than 50 people are killed in another day of Air Strikes on lebanon, which continue after the death of hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Lebanons Prime Minister warns more than A Million people could be forced from their homes. Kemi badenoch walks into a row over maternity pay, as the tory Leadership Contenders vie for support at the Party Conference in birmingham. The far right Freedom Party in austria is on course for a historic win in the General Election. But theyll need a coalition to govern. Hello. We start in The Middle East, where israel has carried out what it called large scale strikes on yemen. Israel was targetting Houthis Energy facilities they say Power Plants and a Sea Port were hit in the yemeni city of hodeidah. Videos have been posted on social media. Bbc verify has confirmed the location. Houthi Run Media says four people were killed and more than 30 injured. The strikes came as israel carried out more attacks across lebanon. The Israeli Army says its targetted 120 military sites