Week, where she was encouraging people to vote. Thank the fans, so thank you for what youve done. And the fact that this is a fan voted award and you voted for this, i appreciate it so much. And if you are over 18, please register to vote for Something Else thats very important coming up the 2024 president ial election. I love you all so, so much. Thank you for this moment. Cheers and Applause Taylor swift is big. You dont need us to tell you that. Shes very, very, very big. Shes got a very big tour which has already grossed over 1 Billion. Shes got almost 300 Million followers on instagram. She is one of the most photographed, most celebrated people on the planet. Does that mean, though, that her endorsement of a political candidate will make any difference at all with how people vote, or whether people are paying any attention to this election . Thats what were going to try and find out. Welcome to americast. Americast. Americast from bbc news. Hello, itsjustin in the Worldwide Headquarters of americast in london, england. Sarah here, back in the studio in washington, dc. And its marianna, aka miss information, also in the Worldwide Headquarters. I dont know when well stop saying the Worldwide Headquarters, but for now. Maybe weve done it for the last time. Anyway. Marianna chuckles i was going to say, you can stop when it stops being funny, but that was maybe a wee while ago. Laughing that was a long time ago. That was a long time ago. Im going to carry on anyway, because Who Cares . People expect it of me. And marianna, it was in the Worldwide Headquarters, wasnt it, that you found out the news that Taylor Swift had endorsed Kamala Harris. I was in the Spin Room in philadelphia, as all the president Ial Surrogates were trying to say, you know, how well their candidate had done in the debate. And then suddenly there was a sort of collective gasp, intake of breath, as Everybody Saw what had dropped on their instagram posts. If any americasters listening didnt hear our episode about the president ial debate, and Mariannas Reaction to finding out about the Taylor Swift news, go back and listen to that, because its definitely worth it. Can ijust say, sarah, i was in the room. I was in the room, but i failed to be properly impressed. And i know that because i had complaints from americast listeners. And the thing that makes it particularly galling is that the listeners were my daughters, who said, why were you horrible to marianna . I said, i wasnt horrible to marianna. Id never be horrible to marianna. But they thought i was. He wasjust busy. He was on a mission. Insufficiently disrespectful. Id say in my defence that i did have to go and present another programme. And id also say in my defence, and well get to this, that i actually dont think itll make much difference. But i fully understand that its important, and Everything Marianna says is important. And for any americasters who didnt listen to that episode, i should remind you of what happened. So, Taylor Swift posted this picture with her cat on instagram and she said, right, im going to endorse Kamala Harris. She called her a warrior and she said, ive done my own research. Ive looked into this and ive made up my mind. This is who i want to vote for. And she signed it off as a childless cat lady, referring to those comments which have received quite a lot of backlash online, from Jd Vance, trumps running mate. And then now, since then, and since we chatted about it, trump has responded. There are actually a few clips of him where people were saying to him, 0h, do you realise whats happened with Taylor Swift . i think when he was in the Spin Room, but he hadnt properly responded at that point. But then hes come out to say that, you know, shell regret it, her fans will regret it, and basically that he doesnt want it anyways. Marianna chuckles thats sort of his take. And its interesting, as well, because she specifically highlighted in her post, Taylor Swift, how Donald Trump had shared some ai generated pictures of her supporting him before. So you kind of wonder, hmm, why did he do that before if hes not interested in her support . He might argue, well, it was a bit of a joke, or, people knew it was ai generated or whatever. But she specifically said that images shared of her, suggesting she was a Trump Supporter not necessarily the ones shared by trump were the reason that she decided to post. I mean, it almost sounded like that. Yeah, that was the reason why she decided to post. It was almost like, well, Donald Trump, if youre going to try and pretend that im supporting you using artificial images, well, im going to come out here and tell you what the truth is. Yeah, as though he had kind of goaded her into it. I thought it was really cleverly written, though, justin. I mean, depending on how interesting or not you find taylor Swifts Intervention into the campaign, i think its worth looking at the text of what she had to say, which wasnt, you know, i demand all of my fans do as i do and go out and vote for Kamala Harris. She was encouraging people to read up on the issues, find out where the candidates stand, and principally, encouraging people to vote and to make sure that theyre registered to vote. She wasnt hectoring any of her followers into voting the same way shes going to. Yeah, and its interesting, that kind of do your own Research Thing is something that people who maybe are less keen on Taylor Swift or less keen on the democrats, its a phrase they use quite a lot. But actually, it felt like she was legitimately trying to say, well, look into this stuff. Make up your own mind. We do actually have a clip of Donald Trump and Jd Vance reacting to Taylor Swifts endorsement, from fox news. Donald trump well, | i actually like mrs, uh. I actually like mrs mahomes much better, if you want to know the truth. Shes a big trump fan. I was not a Taylor Swift fan. It was just a question of time. She couldnt. You couldnt possibly endorse biden. You look at biden, you couldnt possibly endorse him. But shes a very liberal person. She seems to always endorse a democrat, and shell probably pay a price for it in the marketplace. But no, i like brittany. I think brittany is great. Brittany got a lot i of news last week. Shes a big maga fan. Thats the one i like much better than Taylor Swift. I we admire Taylor Swifts music, but i dont think most americans, whether they like her music, are fans of her or not, are going to be influenced by a Billionaire Celebrity who i think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most americans. Look, when Grocery Prices go up by 20 , it hurts most americans. It doesnt hurt Taylor Swift. When Housing Prices become unaffordable, it doesnt affect Taylor Swift or any other billionaire. It does affect middle class americans all over our country. And so i think our pitch to Women Voters is very simple Donald Trump delivered policies that lowered the prices of groceries, lowered the prices of housing, and most importantly, Donald Trump delivered public safety in our country. Well, i think hes right, actually. I mean, not necessarily right politically, but right in that reaction, because i think the problem with all of these endorsements and there have been loads in the past rememberjohn kerry getting Leonardo Dicaprio when he was in his prime . Well, hes probably still in his prime. Who am i to say hes not in his prime . Leonardo dicaprio . But you know, he had barbra streisand, a load of people. It made no difference at all Tojohn Kerry when he was fighting George W Bush in 200a. And the other point, the key point that vance makes there is that she does not live the life of ordinary americans. And so, for the endorsement to come, yes, it will probably bring some of her supporters, possibly, to the polls, who might not have gone to the polls, but it could equally have a net value of zero, because it suggests to others, hang on a second, this is the party of billionaires and people who dont really have anything to do with us. And the democrats have got to really fight against that message this year, particularly with Kamala Harris as the candidate. So i think the net effect, if anything, is zero. Let me disagree with you a bit for a number of reasons there. I mean, firstly, Jd Vance is not short of a bob or two himself. And, you know, the billionaires are tending to support the Trump Campaign at the moment. But Taylor Swift is really quite down to earth in her public image, compared to Beyonce Or Madonna or somebody. She doesnt really give off a big billionaire vibe, even though shes actually made, you know, well over 1 Billion on her latest tour. I thought you could hear, though, Jd Vance being a much cleverer politician in that clip, because he said, we all Respect Taylor swift, but. You had Donald Trump saying, well, i never really liked her. If you are just about the most popular entertainer on the planet, do politicians want to be slagging her off . I mean, you know, come on, lets give some kudos to just how popular her music is, if nothing else. And i mean, i dont know, justin, i think it will open peoples minds to the idea of getting involved in the election at all registering to vote, for instance, because theres no point in firing up a whole bunch of young people under 30, and then them turning up at the polls and discovering, hey, youve got to have registered first, guys, before you can cast a vote. Just widening the bandwidth of people who are paying any attention to this election at all is good for democracy, and i think probably, if its through Taylor Swifts endorsement, more likely to help the democrats. Yeah, and theres another Point Id add not that were all ganging Up Onjustin which is that i think that i agree with you to some extent that some Celebrity Endorsements perhaps dont matter that much because people think, oh, well, itsjust someone who is very rich and famous and they dont really get my life. And to be honest, i expected them to back that particular person anyways. But i think whats crucial here, and the thing that we should talk about, is that Taylor Swift is famous for this very committed bunch of followers she has on Social Media, this swiftie fandom. There are other celebrities that dont really have followings like that, or fandoms that are as active on Social Media. And the benefit to the Harris Walz Campaign is that that fandom are able to generate loads of their own content memes, videos, posts. They make that they make it for free. It costs you nothing. And it also is what we call organic. So its stuff that doesnt look like its sponsored by anyone necessarily. It feels like its coming from real voters, real people. If youre another young woman, for example, Orjust Someone in your 205, it feels like its coming from, you know, a genuine other voter who might be a bit like you. And that stuff keeps popping up on your feed. Maybe its at the top of your tiktok feed, or its on X Or Instagram or wherever it is. And that is the thing, i think, that is most valuable here to the campaign. Because Donald Trump already has. I mean, he almost has no need for the swifties, because hes succeeded in cultivating what is effectively his own fandom, which is a group of people who really support him and generate all kinds of content thats been hugely beneficial to him online. So its almost like the way of going sort of toe to toe with trumps online supporters, who do a really good job of constantly getting him to the top of peoples feeds and on their kind of agenda. So youre telling me this isnt the equivalent of Clint Eastwood Backing whoever he did . I think it was mitt romney, wasnt it . Anyway, backing a republican some time ago. I absolutely get it. And i think i take your point, and i think you may well be right and i may well be wrong, but because of the whole social Media Side of it, erm. But then there is. The kind of organisational side of it as well, which is the point youre making, isnt it . Which i think i probably, with my old brain on, and my kind of political antennae that are blunted by the way that things used to be done. And if youre right, my god, its fascinating, isnt it . Cos its a whole new world. Let me turn it on its head, justin. And while i make an admission that im not that fashionable, but i found out who Charli Xcx was this summer, when she declared that Kamala Harris was brat. Now, i get it. Its supposed to be the other way around. Youre supposed to be a Charli Xcx fan, and then you Take A Look at Kamala Harris because shes been declared to be brat. But you can do it in reverse. I would never have come across Charli Xcx if it wasnt for her interface with this american president ial election. The other way around for swifties or charli fans, for that matter is to, suddenly, this name comes across your horizon, you go, you look into it, you discover its a bit more interesting. Ive got about three Charli Xcx songs on my, erm, shared on a playlist now. So, you know, these things, theyjust. Extra information comes into your life from a sphere you didnt expect it to and suddenly youre richer for it. Do you know the apple dance, sarah . The Tiktok Apple dance. The Tiktok Apple dance. Seem seem she sings and, and, and. She sings and, and, and. And its our, er, and its our, er, its our tv feed. Its our tv feed. You cant see me, marianna. You cant see me, marianna. Justin, by the way, justin, by the way, for anyone. For anyone. I promise you, im doing it well. I promise you, im doing it well. Well done. Well done. Anyone whos looking, anyone whos looking, anyone whos listening, sorry, anyone whos listening, sorry, justin is literally looking justin is literally looking so out of his depth, so out of his depth, icant even. Icant even. Hes thinking, i dont hes thinking, i dont know whats going. Know whats going. Im drowning. Im drowning. Oh, but i found out. Oh, but i found out. Martha, clara, if youre listening, martha, clara, if youre listening, teach him the apple song. Teach him the apple song. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Thats my daughters, thats my daughters, by the way. By the way. Ifound out from marianna. Ifound out from marianna. I find out all these i find out all these things from marianna. Things from marianna. But i do think that the kind but i do think that the kind of, the idea i can absolutely of make my point that, of, the idea i can absolutely understand that you get a head understand that you get a head of steam going and a kind of steam going and a kind of passions going and people of passions going and people interested, and people are not interested, and people are not necessarily very necessarily very interested in politics. And you get them to the polls interested in politics. And you get them to the polls and all the rest of it. And all the rest of it. But ijust think, over but ijust think, over and over again in the past, and over again in the past, the evidence has been, the evidence has been, and, actually, the evidence and, actually, the evidence with Taylor Swift as well with Taylor Swift as well in the past, she took in the past, she took part in a. Part in a. And endorsed a candidate and endorsed a candidate in a State Election in a State Election and the candidate didnt win. And the candidate didnt win. And she endorsed biden and she endorsed biden last time around. Last time around. Of course, biden did win, of course, biden did win, but im not sure it made but im not sure it made an awful lot of difference. An awful lot of difference. But i take your point. But i take your point. So, number one, isort so, number one, isort of make my point that, in the old days, ie two or three years ago, it didnt work. But i see what youre saying, that, actually, now it might. I should say that and i think your point still stands so this is about how much. And we never. Its kind of like this impossible question how much stuff on your Social Media feeds could translate . Cos its not necessarily being targeted at people in specific swing states, although they have told me that some of them are actually going out and canvassing and trying to do a little bit of that sort of stuff. It strikes me that the social Media Stuff is the most valuable, and yet you cant necessarily target it if its not paid for, if itsjust organic at people in a swing state. So, you know, its a question of whether they succeed in gaming the algorithm to reach people in, say, i dont know, pennsylvania or wherever that might be, rather thanjust people in New York or where they live. Its a really interesting point, this business of reaching people who you wouldnt normally reach in the normal, Mainstream Media, and trump does that a lot. In fact, i think weve got some examples of it. So he goes out, he gets to places, he gets to places that most people are not, and are not listening, but key specific groups are. So this is trump talking to the Influencer Logan Paul on his youtube channel. I want to talk to you about aliens. Yeah. Ufos, uaps. I know. The Disclosure Weve seen in congress recently. Yeah. Its. Its. Its confusing and upsetting a lot of americans cos Somethings Goingm theres something happening. There are unidentified aerial phenomena in the sky. We dont know what they are. Ooyou . So, its such a. A question i do get a lot. And its such an interesting question. Ive met with pilots that look just like you, actually. 0k, they have more of a crew cut, ok . I they. They look like him, and they look like you. Some of them look like you. A little fatter. But these are perfect people. Giggling and theyre not. Not crazy. Not conspiratorial. Theyre not crazy. Yeah and they tell me stories that theyve seen things that you wouldnt believe. These are not people that you would say. No way.