Of The Worlds biggest crypto exchanges explains why its crucial The Worlds biggest economy makes the crypto rules clearer. And well hear from the man overseeing them. The head of the us regulator, the securities and Exchange Commission, explains why hes brought so many lawsuits against crypto firms. Plus, the viability of vaping. The boss of the E Cigarette Firm juul tells us why his business has a long term future, even though he doesnt want any young people taking up the habit. Wherever yourejoining me from around The World, hello, and welcome to the show. The us election is looming large, and there are many issues on voters� minds, from inflation and climate change to war in the middle east. But despite all those, one republican senator has said that cryptocurrencies are a defining issue in the run up to november the 5th. And hes not alone in thinking that. The place of one of The Worlds most divisive and consequential technologies in The Worlds biggest economy is at stake, after a years long crackdown on crypto byjoe biden� s administration. Since the us regulator, the securities and Exchange Commission, brought its first Enforcement Action against crypto back in 2013, the number of cases has grown steadily, hitting new highs in recent years. To understand why theyve been so keen to take action, heres president biden� s treasury secretary. Innovation is also one of the hallmarks of a vibrant financial system and economy. But as weve painfully learned from history, | innovation without adequate regulation can result in significant Disruptionsl And Harm to the financial system and to individuals. That risk means some countries have banned crypto. Three years ago, The Worlds second biggest economy, china, made all crypto transactions illegal. Meanwhile, the 620 group of leading economies is working on drawing up minimum standards for crypto laws around The World. The case of Sam Bankman fried and his now defunct Ftx Exchange highlights the risks. In march, the usjailed the founder of what was once one of The Worlds largest crypto exchanges for 25 years for fraud after he stole billions of dollars from customers around The World. Us authorities have also targeted The Worlds biggest crypto exchange, binance. Its Founder Cz Zhao got four months in prison, and the company paid a 4. 3 billion fine after he admitted allowing criminals, Child Abusers and terrorists to launder money on his platform. But while those might be extreme cases, policymakers are split on the value of cryptocurrencies. Concerns include volatility, consumers losing their money, and the potential for fraud. So crypto companies are spending heavily on both the us congressional and president ial elections. In 2024, Crypto Corporations have spent over 119 Million to influence the us federal elections. These corporations, largely coinbase and ripple, are giving primarily to a super pac, a political Action Committee called fairshake. The corporations are using fairshake to help elect pro crypto candidates and Attack Crypto critics. This is regardless of political affiliation. And now, with this spending, these corporations are attempting to discipline the us congress to give in to their demands for less oversight and to weaken protections for investors. One man whos unequivocally backing the Crypto Community is the republican candidate, donald trump. He was a Star Attraction atjuly� s Bitcoin Conference and has even pledged to create a strategic national bitcoin stockpile similar to the us governments reserves of gold. This afternoon, im laying out my plan to ensure that the united states will be the Crypto Capital of the planet and the Bitcoin Superpower of The World, and well get it done. If crypto is going to define the future, i want it to be mined, minted and made in the usa. Its going to be. Its not going to be made anywhere else. And if bitcoin is going to the moon as we say, its going to the moon. I want america to be the nation that leads the way, and thats whats going to happen. As for the democrats, the Party Leader in the senate has said he wants sensible crypto laws passed by The End of this year, while their president ial candidate, kamala harris, hasnt been particularly forthcoming on crypto. Last month, one of her advisers said. And because american Law Enforcement often has global influence, the direction the industry takes as a result of Novembers Election is likely to have global consequences. Us based coinbase is one of The Worlds biggest platforms for buying and selling cryptocurrencies, and ive been catching up with its chief legal officer. Paul grewal, thank you for Talking Business with us today. Its pretty clear the two candidates in novembers us president ial election have very different positions on cryptocurrencies. So how important do you think that election is to the future of crypto, notjust in the us, but of course by extension around The World as well . There is certainly no question that crypto will be important in the us election come november. Every vote is going every vote is going to count, and crypto to count, and crypto votes are no exception. Votes are no exception. Mr trump has more explicitly Mr Trump has more explicitly adopted Pro Crypto Planks adopted Pro Crypto Planks in his personal platform. In his personal platform. Vice president harris has had Vice President harris has had less of an opportunity less of an opportunity to do so, but she, too, to do so, but she, too, has reached out to the crypto has reached out to the Crypto Industry and sought to better industry and sought to better understand the concerns understand the concerns of the industry and ways of the industry and ways in which we might break in which we might break from the much more hostile, from the much more hostile, much more enforcement focused much more enforcement focused approach of the current administration. Approach of the current administration. And Ijust Cant Underscore and Ijust Cant Underscore enough how important this enough how important this is notjust for the us, is notjust for the us, but for The World, because, but for The World, because, of course, not only is the us of course, not only is the us an important market for crypto, an important market for crypto, but so much of the important but so much of the important technology surrounding it has technology surrounding it has been developed here. Been developed here. And i think its also and i think its also critically important critically important that we not lose sight that we not lose sight of the fact that the rest of the fact that the rest of The World is not simply of The World is not simply waiting for the us to get waiting for the us to get its act together. Its act together. All over The World, were all over The World, were seeing similar efforts seeing similar efforts to adopt standards that put, to adopt standards that put, i think, a lot of competitive i think, a lot of competitive pressure on the united States Pressure on the united states not to be left behind. Not to be left behind. Well, the Crypto Industry has well, the Crypto Industry has collectively donated collectively donated more than 119 Million more than 119 Million towards campaigns for this towards campaigns for this years us elections, both years us elections, both congressional and president ial. Your company, coinbase, congressional and president ial. Your company, coinbase, is the biggest single donor. Is the biggest single donor. More than 50 million, more than 50 million, with your boss saying money with your boss saying money moves the needle when it moves the needle when it comes to regulation. Comes to regulation. Continued growth in the american economy, morejobs continued growth in the american economy, more jobs so it understands that crypto and digital assets are an important part of Innovation Narrative and innovation strategy. The c to and innovation strategy. The Crypto Industry and innovation strategy. The Crypto Industry has collectively donated more than. Both congressional and president ial. Your company is the single biggest donor with more than 150 Million saying money moves the needle when it comes to regulation. What exactly are you hoping to achieve with these donations . Well, elections here in the united states are quite expensive. Coinbase, for its part, has recognised that in order for it to be a part of the broader political conversation and to engage with that process, needs to be involved. The campaigns for Mr Trump and for Vice President harris need to understand that their voters want to see crypto in their financial future. And thats the reason why we have engaged in ways that we think are very consistent with something that coinbase has called for all along, which is sensible rules, sensible regulation. This is not a company, this is not an industry that is shying away from regulation. Well, a bill to bring in new us laws isnt on the Statute Books yet, but the sec, the securities and Exchange Commission, has already criticised it, saying it will give less protection to consumers. Well, take a step back, paul, and just remind our audience why does The World need crypto . What these types of assets provide is a faster, cheaper, more secure way for value to be transmitted between two people, two entities, or two organisations anywhere in The World. Not enough people have access to basic financial services when it comes to the traditional system. What crypto can offer what crypto can offer is the ability to get a home is the ability to get a home loan, the ability to send money loan, the ability to send money back home to family back home to family and friends when working and friends when working in another country. In another country. These are real examples these are real examples and real Use Cases that crypto and real Use Cases that crypto can provide, if only can provide, if only given the chance. Given the chance. Well, the us regulator, well, the us regulator, the sec, is suing your company, the sec, is suing your company, accusing you of illegally accusing you of illegally operating an unregistered operating an unregistered securities exchange, and through a much more securities exchange, and plenty of other similar and plenty of other similar companies are facing companies are facing similar actions. Similar actions. Do you feel like the regulator do you feel like the regulator and its chair, gary gensler, and its chair, gary gensler, are simply opposed to crypto, are simply opposed to crypto, that they have a bias that they have a bias against it . Against it . Well, theres no question that well, theres no question that Mr Gensler and the current sec Mr Gensler and the current Sec Have, uh, adopted a view that have, uh, adopted a view that Courtroom Litigation is far preferable to legislation when it comes to establishing standards and rules. And so we think the right answer is, again, lets adopt rules. Lets have congress re establish its primacy, as our constitution requires, Courtroom Litigation is far in setting the standards for notjust the regulators, but for All Of Us engaged in these activities first, thank you for having me on your programme, tadhg. The us securities and Exchange Commission is about protecting investors and ensuring that those who want to raise money have access to a Capital Market. You ask about crypto, and this is a form in some regards where people are trying to raise money, and thus they need to comply with us Securities Laws if theyre offering or selling those crypto Security Tokens here in the us. Thats why were paying attention to it. Well, youre involved in Court Cases around crypto, about what is and what isnt allowed. There are many in the industry who would like you to just come out and issue some clear rules, or maybe to urge congress to pass some specific laws for what is still an emerging technology. Are you doing enough to provide that clarity . The clarity exists. Theyre called the us Securities Laws, and theyve been time tested for 90 years. This is a field that has come along and just because theyre recording their Crypto Assets on a new accounting ledger, they say, oh, we dont think we want to comply with the time tested laws. And what has It Led to . Its led to a field thats rife with fraud and hucksters and grifters. And the investing public around the globe has lost too much money due to this noncompliance with time tested protections for investors. Those are some pretty strong words. Hucksters, grifters. Im sure you. Theyre accurate. Tadhg, i choose them carefully. Look, weve seen this show before in the us. It was in the 1920s, It Led to a great stock market crash. It led to reforms put in place by our great president , president franklin roosevelt, in the 1930s to protect investors. Its a basic idea if you want to raise money from The Public, you need to share certain information with The Public. And The Public then gets to decide. Congress is in the process of legislating for crypto regulation. Its not become law yet, but you at the Sec Have already responded. And it was interesting youve mentioned it already, citing the Great Depression with its breadlines and the Shanty Towns that were brought about back in the 1920s, as what can in the 1920s, as what can happen when Capital Markets happen when Capital Markets arent properly regulated. Arent properly regulated. Is that what you think we need is that what you think we need to be worried about . To be worried about . A Crypto Crash causing something like a Crypto Crash causing something like the Great Depression . The Great Depression . We in america are blessed we in america are blessed with the deepest, most with the deepest, most liquid Capital Markets. Liquid Capital Markets. Were only about 2 were only about 2 or 3 of The Worlds or 3 of The Worlds population, maybe 4 . Population, maybe 4 . But were 40 of the but were 40 of The Worlds Capital Markets. Worlds Capital Markets. Were the Capital Market were the Capital Market of choice, of destination, of choice, of destination, nearly 120 Trillion nearly