Is it a Labour Love in with the unions . A fresh test lies ahead. And fearing homelessness the couple who escaped this Horror Fire ten days ago. Keir starmer addresses the Trades Unions next week, facing calls to raise tax. Hell be the first labour Prime Minister at their conference in 15 years with some big Pay Deals forjunior doctors and Train Drivers already signed. Here tonight are francis ogrady, who ran The Tuc, which says the uk lags behind other western nations in Worker Protection and reward. And salma shah, one time advisor to the conservatives, the party which says labours busy writing blank cheques to its mates. If it looks like a big tilt in a couple of months from the tories and their attitude to workers, and labour and their attitude to workers, that is because it is a big tilt . �. , ,. ,. Tilt . Im not sure it is that much of a big Tilt Tilt . Im not sure it is that much of a big Tilt And Tilt . Im not sure it is that much of a big tilt and There tilt . Im not sure it is that much of a big tilt and There were tilt . Im not sure it is that much| of a big tilt and There were many voices in the conservatives that recognise that There had to be Pay Deals that would secure public services. Deals that would secure public services deals that would secure public services. � ,. ,. ,. , services. But ust do not do them . There was services. Butjust do not do them . There was absolutely services. Butjust do not do them . There was absolutely a services. Butjust do not do them . There was absolutely a problem There was absolutely a problem in the fact that decisions were not being made and things were not getting through and that is the result of the government collapsing which is why you saw the electoral result that you did. The issue is, yes, workers rights have got to be protected and There is absolutely a problem with rising inflation and Public Sector salaries not keeping pace with that, and as we have discussed previously, what that does to recruitment in those really importantjobs, in the nhs, for example, but the political difficulty that the chancellor is going to face is that you have public Sector Pay deals which will then be pitted against things like Winter Fuel Allowance being taken Winter Fuel Allowance being Ta Ken away Winter Fuel Allowance being taken away from elderly people. I will Winter Fuel Allowance being taken away from elderly people. I will get to that. Away from elderly people. I will get to that but away from elderly people. I will get to that. But im away from elderly people. I will get to that. But im surprised away from elderly people. I will get to that. But im surprised you away from elderly people. I will get to that. But im surprised you are i to that. But im surprised you are swerving for what must feel like a Root And Branch change in attitude is a conservative government are planned with the ministers who would not sit at the table with trade unionists, to one that does deals. The context for this is covid, lets be honest. The context for this is covid, lets be honest, where as the recent inquiry be honest, where as the recent inquiry fan, we had to staff and hundreds inquiry fan, we had to staff and Hundreds Of Thousands of vacancies the Hundreds Of Thousands of vacancies the recent inquiry found. The the recent inquiry found. The context is the recent inquiry found. The context is a the recent inquiry found. Tie context is a general the recent inquiry found. Tt;e context is a general election and both of you are telling me nothing has changed, but we think everything has changed, but we think everything has changed. Has changed, but we think everything has changed has changed, but we think everything has chanced. ,. ,. , has changed. Everything has changed. The conservatives, has changed. Everything has changed. The conservatives, when has changed. Everything has changed. The conservatives, when i has changed. Everything has changed. The conservatives, when i was has changed. Everything has changed. The conservatives, when i was to has changed. Everything has changed. The conservatives, when i was to let l the conservatives, when i was to let The Tuc, the conservatives, when i was to let The Tuc, ministers would not sit down The Tuc, ministers would not sit down with The Tuc, ministers would not sit down with representatives of those unions, down with representatives of those unions, and ministers were the first to walk unions, and ministers were the first to walk out unions, and ministers were the first to walk out and that is when we saw record to walk out and that is when we saw Record Levels of. So to walk out and that is when we saw Record Levels of. Record levels of. So you are sa in Record Levels of. So you are saying it Record Levels of. So you are saying it was Record Levels of. So you are saying it was rubbish, Record Levels of. So you are saying it was rubbish, even i Record Levels of. So you are saying it was rubbish, even though she is saying There is nothing to see here . I she is saying There is nothing to see here . , she is saying There is nothing to see here . See here . I cannot tell you the De Th Of See here . I cannot tell you the depth of feeling see here . I cannot tell you the depth of feeling There see here . I cannot tell you the depth of feeling There is see here . I cannot tell you the depth of feeling There is in see here . I cannot tell you the depth of feeling There is in the | depth of feeling There is in the Trade Depth of feeling There is in the Trade Union Movement and the labour movemerit Trade Union Movement and the Labour Movement about the insult that was given movement about the insult that was given to movement about the insult that was given to key workers who had put their given to key workers who had put their lives given to key workers who had put their lives on the line for the rest of us their lives on the line for the rest of us and their lives on the line for the rest of us. And also, we have had a couple of us. And also, we have had a couple of decades of falling living standards, and real cuts in pay. The thin i standards, and real cuts in pay. The thing i want standards, and real cuts in pay. Thing i want to standards, and real cuts in pay. Tug; thing i want to address standards, and real cuts in pay. Tt9 thing i want to address is standards, and real cuts in pay. Tt9 thing i want to address is that we are talking about specific negotiations and the sentiment within the conservatives and a conservative like me, was about how do we get to that deal, how do we do something that is affordable and acceptable, and im not saying that was evident in all the negotiations, certainly not, and There are conservatives that would have wanted to see negotiations go a lot better than they did, so what im saying, the sentiment that is shared is the same, and i understand why the Labour Government has agreed to the Pay Deals and i know why they have come in quick succession because their mission is about delivery and You Cannot do that without Public Sector workers, You Cannot do that without Public Sectorworkers, but You Cannot do that without Public Sector workers, but i think the politics of this again some of the decisions that Rachel Reeves is going to make could be very difficult for her after her first budget. Difficult for her after her first budaet. , ,. , budget. This is not ust about ustice budget. This is not ust about justice for h budget. This is not ust about justice for public budget. This is notjust about justice for Public Sector budget. This is notjust about i justice for Public Sector workers who have justice for Public Sector workers who have seen real cuts to their pay, who have seen real cuts to their pay, it who have seen real cuts to their pay. It is who have seen real cuts to their pay, it is also about the economy, and it pay, it is also about the economy, and if you pay, it is also about the economy, and if You Cannot get people back to work because they are sick, if You Cannot work because they are sick, if You Cannot educate people and train them with the cannot educate people and train them with the skills we need to rebuild grow. With the skills we need to rebuild grow, then we are in trouble. fiddly grow, then we are in trouble. Oddly enou~h, grow, then we are in trouble. Oddly enough. Was grow, then we are in trouble. Oddly enough, was actually grow, then we are in trouble. Orri enough, was actually agreeing with you, There was an outbreak of Agreement Salma was actually agreeing with you. In terms of political red meat, robertjenrick, the leading conservative candidate at the moment, but only talking the talk but walking the walk, walking and talking about this subject and we can listen to him on the link between pensioners and Train Drivers. It says a lot about Keir Starmer� s politics, from the choices hes making, what hes Spending Money on and how hes funding it. Hes chosen to give well paid Train Drivers a £10,000 a Year Pay Rise without settling the strikes. How is he funding this . By cutting the Winter Fuel payments for 10 Million pensioners, just as Energy Prices are rising. You are now advising robertjenrick, you are writing his scripts . Im you are now advising robert jenrick, you are writing his scripts . You are writing his scripts . Im not advisin you are writing his scripts . Im not advising him you are writing his scripts . Im not advising him. But you are writing his scripts . Im not advising him. But that you are writing his scripts . Im not advising him. But that is you are writing his scripts . Im not advising him. But that is the you are writing his scripts . Im not advising him. But that is the point| advising him. But that is the Point Ou are advising him. But that is the point you are making advising him. But that is the point you are making. I advising him. But that is the point you are making. I can advising him. But that is the point you are making. I can see advising him. But that is the point you are making. I can see how advising him. But that is the point| you are making. I can see how that would be a you are making. I can see how that would be a political you are making. I can see how that would be a political tactic you are making. I can see how that would be a political tactic that you are making. I can see how that would be a political tactic that any| would be a political tactic that any of the leadership candidates in the opposition would use against the chancellor because she has very difficult decisions and the reason thatis difficult decisions and the reason that is going to be political salient is that There will be a feeling, especially for older people who cannot work their way out of any potential poverty, that they do not have the opportunity to be able to have the opportunity to be able to have the opportunity to be able to have the same standards of living is Train Drivers or anybody else who had an inflation busting salary. The conservatives are trying to stir up that feeling but of course it is nonsense that feeling but of course it is nonsense because the chancellor has made clear nonsense because the chancellor has made clear that the Triple Lock has atready made clear that the Triple Lock has already delivered an extra £900 on pensions already delivered an extra £900 on pensions this year, outstripping the Winter Allowance being removed for better Winter Allowance being removed for better off pensioners, and that they will be having more to come the following year. The key issue here is that following year. The key issue here is that the following year. The key issue here is that the Triple Lock is also based is that the Triple Lock is also based on is that the Triple Lock is also based on pay, pay, inflation, and the 25 ~ based on pay, pay, inflation, and the 2. 596. , , , , the 2. 596. You are moving what the Ke Issue the 2. 596. You are moving what the key issue is the 2. 596. You are moving what the key issue is because the 2. 596. You are moving what the key issue is because what the 2. 596. You are moving what the key issue is because what we the 2. 596. You are moving what the key issue is because what we are l key issue is because what we are talking about now is the political pressure and im looking at the front page of the financial times, the first time we can ever get this up at the right time. Rachel reeves faces whitehall cuts revolt. Is your successor for Novak Wrong to call for an increase in capital Gains Tax up for an increase in capital Gains Tax up to the top level attacks, for instance . Paul novak. Up to the top level attacks, for instance . Paul novak. I believe he is absolutely right instance . Paul novak. I believe he is absolutely right because instance . Paul novak. I believe he is absolutely right because i he is absolutely right because i have called for it myself, and i think have called for it myself, and i think the Prime Minister has been clear think the Prime Minister has been clear that think the Prime Minister has been clear that those with the broadest shoulders clear that those with the broadest shoulders should take their fair share shoulders should take their fair share and shoulders should take their fair share and yet we have a situation where share and yet we have a situation where people who work in Social Care or shops where people who work in Social Care or shops or warehouses are effectively paying a higher rate of tax on people who get their money from shares and property. That does not feel from shares and property. That does not feel right. I think they will be many voices encouraging the chancellor to have a look at equalising Income Tax and Capital Gains equalising Income Tax and capital Gains Tax equalising Income Tax and capital Gains Tax will top this is how it is looking. Gains tax will top this is how it is lookin ,. , looking, Keir Starmer will be applauded by looking, Keir Starmer will be applauded by The Tuc applauded by the Tuc Conference attendees, but also calls for tax rises,