officials about the pressures on hospitals. the timing has been criticised by both the health secretary and nhs bosses, who say in the middle of an election campaign no party is in a position to negotiate. my opening question to all of you is connect if keir starmer has ruled out meeting a 35% pay restoration demand byjunior doctors, with a change of government resolve anything? i doctors, with a change of government resolve anything?— resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea _ resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea what _ resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea what level- resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea what level keir- resolve anything? i don't know. i- have no idea what level keir starmer would settle this dispute. we have already been clear and raised salaries forjunior doctors by 9% this year. there have been negotiations for another 3% on top of that. they are fair figures. we have settled the nurses dispute and consultants. 35%, is it fairfor the taxpayer? i keep hearing from labour, we should settle as by now. at what cost to the taxpayer? would a chance in at what cost to the taxpayer? would a change in government _ at what cost to the taxpayer? would a change in government make - at what cost to the taxpayer? would a change in government make any . a change in government make any difference if keir starmer and labour has willed out restoration over time, what difference would it make? i over time, what difference would it make? ., , ., ., make? i hope we get to find out. if we aet make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the same _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the same it - make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the same it will. we get more of the same it will carry— we get more of the same it will carry on— we get more of the same it will carry on exactly as it has been. the biggest _ carry on exactly as it has been. the biggest period of industrial strikes since _ biggest period of industrial strikes since the — biggest period of industrial strikes since the 1970s has been under this government. the whole series of industrial— government. the whole series of industrial action started out with grant _ industrial action started out with grant shapps refusing to meet with the unions — grant shapps refusing to meet with the unions for six months because he thought— the unions for six months because he thought it _ the unions for six months because he thought it would be difficult for laboun — thought it would be difficult for laboun a — thought it would be difficult for labour. a lot of what we are suffering _ labour. a lot of what we are suffering now has been saved by this government. they are picking up the pieces _ government. they are picking up the pieces wes— government. they are picking up the pieces. wes streeting has said he will pick— pieces. wes streeting has said he will pick up the phone straightaway if he becomes health secretary, he will start— if he becomes health secretary, he will start that process. he is willing — will start that process. he is willing to _ will start that process. he is willing to talk about some of the broader— willing to talk about some of the broader areas impacting this. it all needs— broader areas impacting this. it all needs to _ broader areas impacting this. it all needs to be on the table. you do not need _ needs to be on the table. you do not need to— needs to be on the table. you do not need to be _ needs to be on the table. you do not need to be soft, it can be a tough set of— need to be soft, it can be a tough set of negotiations. it is about statecraft, diligence and graft. and mone . all statecraft, diligence and graft. and money- all of _ statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these _ statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these things - statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these things are - statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these things are on | money. all of these things are on the table. money. all of these things are on the table- if _ money. all of these things are on the table. if you _ money. all of these things are on the table. if you get _ money. all of these things are on the table. if you get the - the table. if you get the statecraft, the diligence and graphic— statecraft, the diligence and graphic you can come out with a good deal for— graphic you can come out with a good deal for taxpayers, their workers and patients. i deal for taxpayers, their workers and patients-— deal for taxpayers, their workers and patients. i am not sure “unior doctors — and patients. i am not sure “unior doctors are interested h and patients. i am not sure “unior doctors are interested in h doctors are interested in statecraft, they are interested in more money. what wes streeting needs to say is where that money is coming from. where is the money coming from? from one place, from the taxpayer. from? from one place, from the taxa er. ,., . , taxpayer. this article in the times strikin: taxpayer. this article in the times striking doctors _ taxpayer. this article in the times striking doctors confident - taxpayer. this article in the times striking doctors confident that - striking doctors confident that labour is listening to pay demands. do you think a change of government might end the strikes? that do you think a change of government might end the strikes?— might end the strikes? that is interesting. — might end the strikes? that is interesting, it _ might end the strikes? that is interesting, it is _ might end the strikes? that is interesting, it is not _ might end the strikes? that is interesting, it is not the - interesting, it is not the impression i got from striking doctors i visited on picket lines this morning. they were nervous about it. labour does pose quite a risk to doctors fleeing the nhs and going to australia. if they are going to australia. if they are going to australia. if they are going to use private health care to smash through these waiting lists, it will cost a lot of money and take a lot of doctors out of service. it will put a real strain on the day to day for doctors and they are really concerned about it. wes streeting says he will meet with them and be ready to negotiate. he has also said he will not meet the pay demand of 35%. i do not think they do not meet that, they will resolve it.— that, they will resolve it. every negotiation _ that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is _ that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is give _ that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is give and - that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is give and take. if| that, they will resolve it. every - negotiation is give and take. if you look at _ negotiation is give and take. if you look at how— negotiation is give and take. if you look at how some of the other disputes— look at how some of the other disputes have been settled, even the nurses— disputes have been settled, even the nurses gave way as well because that is how— nurses gave way as well because that is how negotiations go. in terms of getting _ is how negotiations go. in terms of getting around the table and using the private sector, we are talking about _ the private sector, we are talking about using existing capacity in the private _ about using existing capacity in the private sector to lessen the burden on nhs _ private sector to lessen the burden on nhs doctors. the reason so many are fleeing _ on nhs doctors. the reason so many are fleeing is— on nhs doctors. the reason so many are fleeing is the nhs is broken, the experience of working and it is overstretched, they are understaffed and under _ overstretched, they are understaffed and under supported. the}r overstretched, they are understaffed and under supported.— and under supported. they know the rivate and under supported. they know the private sector _ and under supported. they know the private sector is _ and under supported. they know the private sector is already _ and under supported. they know the private sector is already being - private sector is already being used. they are angry because they are saying you are not listening to us. there is no capacity to tap into. ~ ., ., ,, . ., into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying. — into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying. we _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to use _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to use all- into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to use all the i not saying, we want to use all the capacity— not saying, we want to use all the capacity the country has right now to make _ capacity the country has right now to make sure the nhs this fit to face the — to make sure the nhs this fit to face the future again. we to make sure the nhs this fit to face the future again.— to make sure the nhs this fit to face the future again. we are a week awa from face the future again. we are a week away from polling — face the future again. we are a week away from polling day _ face the future again. we are a week away from polling day and _ face the future again. we are a week away from polling day and we - face the future again. we are a week away from polling day and we can . face the future again. we are a week| away from polling day and we can see rishi sunak campaigning in derbyshire after the head—to—head debate last night. we'll be speaking to a correspondent who is following him today. what do you think of the headline, striking doctors confident labour is listening to pay demands despite the fact keir starmer and wes streeting have both ruled out a 35% pay restoration? i do wes streeting have both ruled out a 35% pay restoration?— 35% pay restoration? i do not think even 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior— 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior doctors _ 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior doctors expect - 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior doctors expect 3596. . 3596 pay restoration? i do not thinkl even junior doctors expect 3596. you even junior doctors expect 35%. you know that is not what you will get. at the astonishing if you got what you asked for immediately. you have to accept that labour is listening and wes streeting has said he will get around the table. they do not expect to get 35% in reality. labour has to settle less because what is the alternative? five more years of junior doctors strikes? the nhs salary bill overall is about 46% of the total nhs budget. the current date that the current government nhs plans as we expect over the next 15 years to have another i plans as we expect over the next 15 years to have anotheri million people working on nhs, such as the demand on the health service from an ageing population among other things. we have to be honest about the costs of the salary. that means 35% won't happen. labour does have to bring this to the resolution soon. . , , , , . soon. the last big set piece event if ou soon. the last big set piece event if you liked _ soon. the last big set piece event if you liked of _ soon. the last big set piece event if you liked of the _ soon. the last big set piece event if you liked of the election - if you liked of the election campaign between rishi sunak and keir starmer took place last night. hosted by the bbc and my colleague, michelle hussein. you can see them here, just ahead of the debate actually starting. the two main party leaders clashed over immigration, small boats and taxation. before we get to the substance of the policy debate, let's have a look at some of the front pages and their verdict. the daily telegraph. rishi sunak�*s need to voters, do not surrender britain to voters, do not surrender britain to labour. that was very much his message throughout the debate. in the guardian, prime minister and starmer clash over betting scandal in tetchy final tv debate. what starmer clash over betting scandal in tetchy final tv debate. what was our main in tetchy final tv debate. what was your main takeaway? _ in tetchy final tv debate. what was your main takeaway? it _ in tetchy final tv debate. what was your main takeaway? it was - in tetchy final tv debate. what was i your main takeaway? it was probably the strongest we have seen rishi sunak. i thought keir starmer did not seem to be expecting it. last week i felt keir starmer walked in as if he was the man and rishi sunak looked terrified and there was a bit of a flip. this gambling scandal, it is going to be probably one of the most important issues —— going to the ballot box. it is a sequence of events, partygate were drinking on the job events, partygate were drinking on thejob in parliament, gambling and sex scandals. this is what voters are thinking about and talking about. ., ., .,~ ., ., about. your main takeaway from last niuht? about. your main takeaway from last niht? i about. your main takeaway from last night? ithink— about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he _ about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he was _ about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he was right, - about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he was right, rishi - night? i think he was right, rishi sunak seemed _ night? i think he was right, rishi sunak seemed more _ night? i think he was right, rishi sunak seemed more confident. i night? i think he was right, rishi| sunak seemed more confident. a night? i think he was right, rishi - sunak seemed more confident. a lot of activists _ sunak seemed more confident. a lot of activists and campaigners up and down _ of activists and campaigners up and down the _ of activists and campaigners up and down the country will be thinking, where _ down the country will be thinking, where there's this guy six weeks ago? _ where there's this guy six weeks ago? we — where there's this guy six weeks ago? we could have done with him the whole _ ago? we could have done with him the whole time _ ago? we could have done with him the whole time putting forward a more confident— whole time putting forward a more confident and more aggressive defence — confident and more aggressive defence of his policies. if anyone chose _ defence of his policies. if anyone chose to — defence of his policies. if anyone chose to watch the football instead that was _ chose to watch the football instead that was probably the right decision. the public thinks it is dragging — decision. the public thinks it is dragging on and what really do you learn _ dragging on and what really do you learn about the series of head—to—head debates you do not learn _ head—to—head debates you do not learn from — head—to—head debates you do not learn from the first one? new issues come _ learn from the first one? new issues come up _ learn from the first one? new issues come up like — learn from the first one? new issues come up like the betting scandal. they— come up like the betting scandal. they are — come up like the betting scandal. they are generally thinking, which is dragging on and what really do you learn— is dragging on and what really do you learn about the series of head—to—head debates you do not learn _ head—to—head debates you do not learn from — head—to—head debates you do not learn from the first one? new issues come _ learn from the first one? new issues come up _ learn from the first one? new issues come up like — learn from the first one? new issues come up like the betting scandal. they— come up like the betting scandal. they are — come up like the betting scandal. they are generally thinking, rishi sunak— they are generally thinking, rishi sunak was— they are generally thinking, rishi sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing _ sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing really changed. a sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing really changed. its lot sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing really changed.— nothing really changed. a lot of eo - le nothing really changed. a lot of people are _ nothing really changed. a lot of people are still _ nothing really changed. a lot of people are still to _ nothing really changed. a lot of people are still to make - nothing really changed. a lot of people are still to make the - nothing really changed. a lot of l people are still to make the issue of some asylum seekers, as you know, to rwanda to deter people from crossing the channel in those beds. the first flights will leave later on in july, the first flights will leave later on injuly, rishi sunak says. keir starmer has pledged to scrap the scheme and will instead use counterterrorism powers to stop gangs smuggling people across the channel. let's get a flavour of that debate. the prime minister says he'll send them all to rwanda. the rwanda scheme takes a few hundred. it would take literally 300 years to get all the people here unlawfully to rwanda. so they're going to stay here. if elected, what would you do? what would you do with them? at the moment, they're not being processed. so they're sitting in hotels, which you are all paying for. they're not processed. and, as a result of not being processed, that means not a single one, even those that shouldn't be here can be returned anywhere. do you know where these people come from? he's not answering the question. you can see that. iran, syria, afghanistan. so when keir starmer says he's going to return people, is he going to sit down... are you going to sit down with the iranian ayatollahs? are you going to try and do a deal with the taliban? it's completely nonsensical. what you are saying, right? applause. you are taking... you are taking people forfools, right? i think that these people should not stay on our country, they will be on planes to rwanda. that's what i will do with. the problem is no flights to will and i had taken off. all the talk, no one has actually gone to rwanda. legislation has been resisted for months. 130 times. the tempo map legislation is notjust about rwanda. as part of that legislation, when people come across the channel, keir starmer does not understand it and fails to acknowledge it. they go into detention are not hotels. that is a key point and a deterrent in itself. it keir starmer takes over, he was scrap this legislation. all of these people will end up on our streets. he of these people will end up on our streets. .., of these people will end up on our streets. .. ., , streets. he came into this parliament _ streets. he came into this parliament with _ streets. he came into this parliament with a - streets. he came into this| parliament with a majority streets. he came into this i parliament with a majority of streets. he came into this - parliament with a majority of 18 you are blaming labourfor parliament with a majority of 18 you are blaming labour for delaying the bill going _ are blaming labour for delaying the bill going through parliament. the reason _ bill going through parliament. the reason is — bill going through parliament. the reason is because how many of your mps voted _ reason is because how many of your mps voted against your legislation? a handful _ mps voted against your legislation? a handful. 16 mps voted against your legislation? a handful. ' ~ ., ., ., , mps voted against your legislation? ahandful. ., ., ., , ' a handful. 16 voted against. 12 voted against _ a handful. 16 voted against. 12 voted against and _ a handful. 16 voted against. 12 voted against and 16 _ a handful. 16 voted aga