what is there in the election for young voters? national service, reform, covered in the cost of living crisis? what is in it for you? and rishi sunak says he is incredibly angry about the betting scandal. good evening live from the newsnight studio, where our guests, young, old, well, older and somewhere in between, entertain us with interviews and searing, late—night insight. we shouted out for younger voters to get in touch about how they're feeling about the election. 26—year—old harrison from bournemouth came straight back. hello, newsnight, definitely feeling ignored during this campaign. six months ago, i had to quit myjob in watford and move back home to live with my parents in bournemouth with the cost of renting being the leading factor in my decision. i simply couldn't afford to live where i worked. i haven't heard anything from any of the political parties during this campaign that i think will materially improve the lives for young people. we've got a stuffed sofa and a packed programme. welcome to our panelists, author samuel kasumu, former downing street adviser to borisjohnson, and former labourand ed miliband adviser tom hamilton. we're alsojoined by ed campbell of the politics joe website. and polly bayfield is a reporter from bbc newsbeat, who've been touring the country speaking to young voters ahead of the election. nick's here too. first, let's relive the campaign so far from the point of view of the more youthful part of the electorate. why do you hate young people so much? you're making them go into the army. no, you have a choice. we have to stop the landlords ripping off tenants. you will love it. who will pay more? when i talk to young people there's a whole set of issues they raise. national service is a good thing for our country. we can pass legislation to say you can't do it. from knife crime to housing to mental health... rishi sunak: my generation- has been let down by the labour party in this manifesto. # will you still love me when i am no longer young and beautiful?# you say that you are offering change but it's the same old tory policy. - he is a very young 88. a very young 88. that's brilliant. how often are you here? you are not here every day, are you? no, i play on tuesday afternoons, thursday evenings... we'll pick up some of that in a moment. first, keir starmer�*s been courting the youth vote tonight. the labour leader's been at the first of eight taylor swift concerts happening there this summer. he has got a white t—shirt on and he definitely looks like a swifty. totting up the combined ages of the 784 peers in the house of lords takes you to approximately 40,000 years' worth. we are talking about that later. 0ne we are talking about that later. one of our guests tonight is one of the youngest peers in the house of lords. first of all, let's look at what it feels like for young people in this campaign. do they feel listened to? is there anything for them? being young is pretty tough, isn't it? i have always said to my conservative colleagues that demographics is the existential feature of the conservative party will stop young people in particular who feel disaffected, who can't buy a home, who are saddled with student debt in comparison to those who came before them. during this election, i can only speakfor the them. during this election, i can only speak for the conservative party, they are going to need to try to hold onto as many votes as possible and not necessarily reach out for new verse and that will present a future challenge for the party. ii present a future challenge for the -a . y ., present a future challenge for the -a . , ., ., present a future challenge for the party. if you are in a situation where older— party. if you are in a situation where older people _ party. if you are in a situation where older people are - party. if you are in a situation where older people are more| party. if you are in a situation - where older people are more likely to, what you want is to tailor something that will bring younger voters in, and we will talk about later, especially as there is this push to earlier when you are 16. the reali is push to earlier when you are 16. the reality is you — push to earlier when you are 16. tue: reality is you cannot rely push to earlier when you are 16. tue reality is you cannot rely on 75 euros forever for obvious reasons. and so there is a need to have an offering that is broader and unfortunately we have failed to do that. of course, people are not listening to us anyway.- that. of course, people are not listening to us anyway. isn't this a stereotype — listening to us anyway. isn't this a stereotype about _ listening to us anyway. isn't this a stereotype about what _ listening to us anyway. isn't this a stereotype about what young - listening to us anyway. isn't this a i stereotype about what young people are interested in? let's put this in are interested in? let's put this in a box. like right now it is more visceralfor a box. like right now it is more visceral for them, a box. like right now it is more visceralforthem, it a box. like right now it is more visceralfor them, it is a box. like right now it is more visceral for them, it is a a box. like right now it is more visceralfor them, it is a daily thing, how do i actually live? absolutely, i travel around the country — absolutely, i travel around the country and they will all tell you the same thing. i can't afford a house — the same thing. i can't afford a house i— the same thing. i can't afford a house i am _ the same thing. i can't afford a house. lam not the same thing. i can't afford a house. i am not sure howl the same thing. i can't afford a house. i am not sure how i will be able _ house. i am not sure how i will be able to— house. i am not sure how i will be able to afford kids and family. i am reluctant_ able to afford kids and family. i am reluctant to — able to afford kids and family. i am reluctant to describe all young people — reluctant to describe all young people is extremely concerned about environmental issues, obviously people _ environmental issues, obviously people are, but these are not things at the _ people are, but these are not things at the top of every single young person's— at the top of every single young person's mine. i think people like to imagine — person's mine. i think people like to imagine a young person as a young professional— to imagine a young person as a young professional who lives in a flasher commissure. professional who lives in a flasher commissure— professional who lives in a flasher commissure. this is what harrison was saying- _ commissure. this is what harrison was saying- if— commissure. this is what harrison was saying. if people _ commissure. this is what harrison was saying. if people are - commissure. this is what harrison was saying. if people are young, l was saying. if people are young, almost by _ was saying. if people are young, almost by definition _ was saying. if people are young, almost by definition they - was saying. if people are young, almost by definition they will. was saying. if people are young, almost by definition they will be | was saying. if people are young, i almost by definition they will be on lower— almost by definition they will be on lower wages— almost by definition they will be on lower wages than— almost by definition they will be on lower wages than people _ almost by definition they will be on lower wages than people who - almost by definition they will be on lower wages than people who are l lower wages than people who are olden _ lower wages than people who are olden they— lower wages than people who are older. they will— lower wages than people who are older. they will have _ lower wages than people who are older. they will have significant l older. they will have significant student — older. they will have significant student debt _ older. they will have significant student debt which _ older. they will have significant student debt which they- older. they will have significant student debt which they have . older. they will have significant. student debt which they have only 'ust student debt which they have only just started — student debt which they have only just started to _ student debt which they have only just started to pay— student debt which they have only just started to pay down, - student debt which they have only just started to pay down, if- student debt which they have only just started to pay down, if at - student debt which they have only just started to pay down, if at all. | just started to pay down, if at all. they— just started to pay down, if at all. they have — just started to pay down, if at all. they have got _ just started to pay down, if at all. they have got brexit _ just started to pay down, if at all. they have got brexit that - just started to pay down, if at all. they have got brexit that has - just started to pay down, if at all. they have got brexit that hasjustj they have got brexit that hasjust happened — they have got brexit that hasjust happened and _ they have got brexit that hasjust happened and they _ they have got brexit that hasjust happened and they didn't - they have got brexit that hasjust happened and they didn't get - they have got brexit that hasjust happened and they didn't get to i they have got brexit that hasjust. happened and they didn't get to vote on that— happened and they didn't get to vote on that in— happened and they didn't get to vote on that in the — happened and they didn't get to vote on that in the first _ happened and they didn't get to vote on that in the first place. _ happened and they didn't get to vote on that in the first place. we - happened and they didn't get to vote on that in the first place. we talk- on that in the first place. we talk about— on that in the first place. we talk about the 2019 _ on that in the first place. we talk about the 2019 tory voters - on that in the first place. we talk about the 2019 tory voters and l on that in the first place. we talk. about the 2019 tory voters and how they are _ about the 2019 tory voters and how they are switching _ about the 2019 tory voters and how they are switching away, _ about the 2019 tory voters and how they are switching away, but - about the 2019 tory voters and how they are switching away, but this i they are switching away, but this cohort _ they are switching away, but this cohort is— they are switching away, but this cohort is not— they are switching away, but this cohort is not the _ they are switching away, but this cohort is not the 2019 _ they are switching away, but this cohort is not the 2019 voters - cohort is not the 2019 voters because _ cohort is not the 2019 voters because they _ cohort is not the 2019 voters because they didn't - cohort is not the 2019 voters because they didn't have - cohort is not the 2019 voters because they didn't have a l cohort is not the 2019 voters - because they didn't have a chance to vote at _ because they didn't have a chance to vote at all _ because they didn't have a chance to vote at all one _ because they didn't have a chance to vote at all. one thing _ because they didn't have a chance to vote at all. one thing is— because they didn't have a chance to vote at all. one thing is how- because they didn't have a chance to vote at all. one thing is how much . vote at all. one thing is how much they want— vote at all. one thing is how much they want to — vote at all. one thing is how much they want to see _ vote at all. one thing is how much they want to see change _ vote at all. one thing is how much they want to see change coming. vote at all. one thing is how much i they want to see change coming. you travel u- they want to see change coming. you travel up and — they want to see change coming. travel up and down the country, so what are the preoccupations? is there a feeling that politicians are addressing them or not?- there a feeling that politicians are addressing them or not? there is no den in: addressing them or not? there is no denying that — addressing them or not? there is no denying that young _ addressing them or not? there is no denying that young people, - addressing them or not? there is no denying that young people, going i denying that young people, going back to your initial question, that they do care about the environment. but there are bigger things at play here. the cost of living and the housing crisis at the moment. we have been up and down the country, like you said, and they are the two main things that get brought out time and time again. young people have so many feelings about this. the crux of the issue is theyjust don't feel listened to. giee the crux of the issue is they 'ust don't feel listened mi don't feel listened to. give me examples _ don't feel listened to. give me examples of — don't feel listened to. give me examples of their _ don't feel listened to. give me examples of their concerns. i examples of their concerns. individual examples. i was in ashfield in nottinghamshire yesterday speaking to two young girls, debbie who is 19 and her friend millie who is 20. i asked them if they were going to vote in them if they were going to vote in the general election and they said no, absolutely not. that is a really strong reaction. what you say absolutely not? they said, first of all we have no idea to vote for. i asked why. they said there is too much emphasis on political point scoring. there is a lot of talk about the economy and taxes. when it comes to things that young voters are concerned about, like the housing crisis and renting and being able to get onto the housing ladder, or if they are renting just to have lower rents, and the cost of living. their car insurance is between 1000 and £2000 a year. when it comes to having jobs they are working two jobs at the moment. they can't afford to do anything than work. is there a feeling that they are desperate or are they also angry? either actually angry about all of this? do they feel they have lost out on so much anyway? thea;r this? do they feel they have lost out on so much anyway? they are an: out on so much anyway? they are angry when _ out on so much anyway? they are angry when they _ out on so much anyway? they are angry when they go _ out on so much anyway? they are angry when they go on _ out on so much anyway? they are angry when they go on tiktok, . out on so much anyway? they are angry when they go on tiktok, i l out on so much anyway? they are i angry when they go on tiktok, i was speaking to a couple of people in colchester a few days ago, when they go on tiktok they are just burdened with videos from the conservative party, the lib dems, the green party, the lib dems, the green party, any political party, and it is funny video gimmicks that they see and it is political point scoring. they don't care about these videos. they don't want to see other parties making jests of others, they just want to know what will make their lives better and so that they can actually go out and enjoy life. if they are disaffected, where are they going, ed? if they are disaffected, where are they going. ed?— they going, ed? basically the lib dems and the — they going, ed? basically the lib dems and the greens _ they going, ed? basically the lib dems and the greens are - they going, ed? basically the lib i dems and the greens are basically benefiting from this. i am being very unscientific year. by far the most _ very unscientific year. by far the most popular party is the green manifesto. that is not scientific and it _ manifesto. that is not scientific and it will— manifesto. that is not scientific and it will not be replicated at the next election. i think the labour party— next election. i think the labour party was— next election. i think the labour party was about 18,000. if you are presenting — party was about 18,000. if you are presenting young people with an ambitious, progressive set of policies — ambitious, progressive set of policies that a lot of people would like to _ policies that a lot of people would like to see the labour party follow, that might — like to see the labour party follow, that might be supported by young people _ that might be supported by young --eole. , , that might be supported by young eo le, , , ., ., people. elsewhere, if they are not auoin people. elsewhere, if they are not going green. _ people. elsewhere, if they are not going green, there _ people. elsewhere, if they are not going green, there is _ people. elsewhere, if they are not going green, there is evidence - people. elsewhere, if they are not going green, there is evidence ofl going green, there is evidence of them are going to reform. i was in boston in lincolnshire _ them are going to reform. i was in boston in lincolnshire which - them are going to reform. i was in boston in lincolnshire which had i them are going to reform. i was in | boston in lincolnshire which had the biggest _ boston in lincolnshire which had the biggest pro leave in 2016? i spoke to a young — biggest pro leave in 2016? i spoke to a young man who was 20 and who still had _ to a young man who was 20 and who still had braces on and he said i am sick to— still had braces on and he said i am sick to death of everything, boston is impoverished, i can't get on in this town — is impoverished, i can't get on in this town and he said he was keen to id this town and he said he was keen to go to— this town and he said he was keen to go to nigel— this town and he said he was keen to go to nigel farage. fire this town and he said he was keen to go to nigel farage._ this town and he said he was keen to go to nigel farage.— go to nigel farage. are you hearing that as well? _ go to nigel farage. are you hearing that as well? you _ go to nigel farage. are you hearing that as well? you have _ go to nigel farage. are you hearing that as well? you have to _ go to nigel farage. are you hearing that as well? you have to be - go to nigel farage. are you hearing | that as well? you have to be careful about that, — that as well? you have to be careful about that, some _ that as well? you have to be careful about that, some young _ that as well? you have to be careful about that, some young people - that as well? you have to be careful about that, some young people are | about that, some young people are voting reform, but overall more young people are voting labour than anyone else and twice as many people vote on lib dem as reform. it is interesting _ vote on lib dem as reform. it is interesting because _ vote on lib dem as reform. it is interesting because if migration, whatever it is, is third, do you get the sense that young people have the same concerns over migration? the oll we same concerns over migration? the poll we have _ same concerns over migration? tue poll we have done where i work shows young people are much less concerned about immigration than they are about immigration than they are about housing and crime. the same things a lot of other people are interested in. but maybe in some ways that is heightened because they have got a bit less disposable income because their rent is higher. they are a bit more socially liberal than the population at large and immigration is not as big an issue as them. the nigel farage appeal may not be quite the same as it is to others. . , , others. that is interesting in itself. if it — others. that is interesting in itself. if it is _ others. that is interesting in itself. if it is the _ others. that is interesting in itself. if it is the case - others. that is interesting in itself. if it is the case that i others. that is interesting in - itself. if it is the case that some young people are against the conservatives and for labour, it is not necessarily because labour are talking about immigration. keir starmer says he will bring immigration down. for young people thatis immigration down. for young people that is not what they are interested in. i that is not what they are interested in. ., �* ~' , that is not what they are interested in. ., �* ~ , ., in. i don't think they are necessarily _ in. i don't think they are necessarily object - in. i don't think they are necessarily object to - in. i don't think they are - necessarily object to immigration. if you go to a primary school and the kids— if you go to a primary school and the kids are _ if you go to a primary school and the kids are of _ if you go to a primary school and the kids are of an _ if you go to a primary school and the kids are of an asian - if you go to a primary school and - the kids are of an asian background, you see _ the kids are of an asian background, you see a _ the kids are of an asian background, you see a shift — the kids are of an asian background, you see a shift in _ the kids are of an asian background, you see a shift in the _ the kids are of an asian background, you see a shift in the overall- you see a shift in the overall demographic— you see a shift in the overall demographic make—up- you see a shift in the overall demographic make—up of. you see a shift in the overall- demographic make—up of young you see a shift in the overall— demographic make—up of young people which has _ demographic make—up of young people which has an— demographic make—up of young people which has an impact _ demographic make—up of young people which has an impact on— demographic make—up of young people which has an impact on how— demographic make—up of young people which has an impact on how they- demographic make—up of young people which has an impact on how they view. which has an impact on how they view immigration — which has an impact on how they view immigration i— which has an impact on how they view immigration. ithink— which has an impact on how they view immigration. i think it— which has an impact on how they view immigration. i think it does— which has an impact on how they view immigration. i think it does come - immigration. i think it does come all the _ immigration. i think it does come all the way— immigration. i think it does come all the way back— immigration. i think it does come all the way back to _ immigration. i think it does come all the way back to economics. i immigration. i think it does come i all the way back to economics. most young _ all the way back to economics. most young people — all the way back to economics. most young people have _ all the way back to economics. most young people have been— all the way back to economics. most young people have been told - all the way back to economics. most young people have been told if- all the way back to economics. most young people have been told if you. young people have been told if you -et young people have been told if you get a _ young people have been told if you get a good — young people have been told if you get a good qualification, _ young people have been told if you get a good qualification, get - young people have been told if you get a good qualification, get a - young people have been told if youl get a good qualification, get a good 'ob, get a good qualification, get a good job, and _ get a good qualification, get a good job, and you — get a good qualification, get a good job, and you will— get a good qualification, get a good job, and you will be _ get a good qualification, get a good job, and you will be able _ get a good qualification, get a good job, and you will be able to- get a good qualification, get a good job, and you will be able to own - get a good qualification, get a good job, and you will be able to own a i job, and you will be able to own a home _ job, and you will be able to own a home one — job, and you will be able to own a home one day _ job, and you will be able to own a home one day. but— job, and you will be able to own a home one day. but a _ job, and you will be able to own a home one day. but a lot - job, and you will be able to own a home one day. but a lot of- job, and you will be able to own a home one day. but a lot of young| home one day. but a lot of young people _ home one day. but a lot of young people are — home one day. but a lot of young people are saying _ home one day. but a lot of young people are saying the _ home one day. but a lot of young people are saying the reality - home one day. but a lot of young people are saying the reality is i home one day. but a lot of young. people are saying the reality is not going _ people are saying the reality is not going to _ people are saying the reality is not going to he — people are saying the reality is not going to be possible _ people are saying the reality is not going to be possible for— people are saying the reality is not going to be possible for me. - people are saying the reality is not going to be possible for me. what| people are saying the reality is not i going to be possible for me. what is there _ going to be possible for me. what is there for— going to be possible for me. what is there for me — going to be possible for me. what is there for me to— going to be possible for me. what is there for me to hope _ going to be possible for me. what is there for me to hope for? _ going to be possible for me. what is there for me to hope for? if- going to be possible for me. what is there for me to hope for?— there for me to hope for? if you are in an apprenticeship, _ there for me to hope for? if you are in an apprenticeship, how _ there for me to hope for? if you are in an apprenticeship, how will i there for me to hope for? if you are in an apprenticeship, how will you l in an apprenticeship, how will you afford the rent? it is different in scotland where there are not tuition fees, but it is still not easy for young people. as you say, there is a debt burden that people have. do you think that is what is play across the country? it think that is what is play across the country?— think that is what is play across the country? it is interesting. it was mentioning _ the country? it is interesting. it was mentioning the _ the country? it is interesting. it was mentioning the manifesto l the country? it is interesting. it. was mentioning the manifesto and the country? it is interesting. it- was mentioning the manifesto and i was on a magical mystery tour to birmingham with seven manifestos. 0r birmingham with seven manifestos. or at least a six manifestos and one contract. . . at least a six manifestos and one contract. ., , , ., at least a six manifestos and one contract-_ i- at least a six manifestos and one contract._ i am i at least a six manifestos and one | contract._ i amjust contract. can i test you? i am 'ust iioin to contract. can i test you? i am 'ust going to talk�* contract. can i test you? i am 'ust going to talk about i contract. can i test you? i am 'ust going to talk about the i contract. can i test you? i am 'ust going to talk about the two i contract. can i test you? i amjust going to talk about the two guys l going to talk about the two guys vying to be prime minister. where they are facing criticism and what they are facing criticism and what they are facing criticism and what they are saying about the offers to young people. rishi sunak, the perception is he is running a covid campaign and if you are running a covid campaign you are going after older voters if you are conservative. the two the things is the triple lock. pensions rise by the triple lock. pensions rise by the highest of inflation, earnings or 2.5%. the new bit is the taxable rise and you will not pay tax on the state pension. the second thing is national service for younger people. that is about younger people but is perceived as a message to older people. the tories would say if they were here, look at our manifesto, we have got a section to give young people the options they need and rishi sunak is talking about how national service is very popular for young people, apprenticeships and getting people on the property ladder. for keir starmer he had a bit of a challenge with a younger voter yesterday on the question time debate. he said why is it you have reversed your plan on tuition fees? he said i made a choice and we are going after bringing down waiting list. there is the labour manifesto and they have got a section, break down the barriers to opportunity, talking about recruiting 6500 new expert teachers and high quality apprenticeships. that is what the labour offer is. totting up the combined ages of the 784 peers in the house of lords takes you to approximately 40,000 years' worth. we are talking about that later. making hersmall, indeed, the smallest contribution to that tally is the newly minted peer, 28—year—old baroness carmen smith, a member of plaid cymru, who wants to see the house of lords abolished. thank you forjoining us tonight. i should start with congratulations. 0ne striking thing that you hear in conversation in the lords, what are the preoccupations of some of the peers who have come across? goad peers who have come across? good evenini. i peers who have come across? good evening- iguess— peers who have come across? good evening. i guess some _ peers who have come across? good evening. i guess some of _ peers who have come across? good evening. i guess some of the i peers who have come across? (13mg. evening. i guess some of the things i hear are too offensive to repeat, but for sure i was recently in a documentary about poverty across the uk and one of the striking things was that one of the piers actually said that poverty doesn't exist. so that was pretty striking in terms of just being out of touch in terms of what is happening in society. but how are you going to, as a supporter of welsh independence, going to move your case forward within the house of lords? . your case forward within the house of lords? , ,., , of lords? yes, so wherever there is decisions being _ of lords? yes, so wherever there is decisions being made _ of lords? yes, so wherever there is decisions being made about - of lords? yes, so wherever there is decisions being made about wales, | of lords? yes, so wherever there is i decisions being made about wales, we must have welsh voices around the table. so that is what i am doing there. i am table. so that is what i am doing there. iam being table. so that is what i am doing there. i am being a voice around that table and using every tool in our tool box to be able to share our message. so when you're voting in the senedd, you can vote at 16, there is no evidence that the earlier you vote, the more likely you are to stick at it, and he later you start voting, the less interested you are in doing it. do you get a sense of that from young people in wales?— young people in wales? certainly. you know. — young people in wales? certainly. you know. i— young people in wales? certainly. you know, ithink— young people in wales? certainly. you know, i think it— young people in wales? certainly. you know, i think it is— young people in wales? certainly. you know, i think it is important. you know, i think it is important that all young people cast their votes. however, looking at this election in particular, young people just do not feel enthused by the type of politics that we have from the big parties. tell type of politics that we have from the big parties-— the big parties. tell me what specifically — the big parties. tell me what specifically there _ the big parties. tell me what specifically there is - the big parties. tell me what specifically there is for i the big parties. tell me what i specifically there is for younger people in plaid cymru's manifesto. 0ur people in plaid cymru's manifesto. our main call in this specific election is around fair funding for wales. i think ultimately what the rest of your panel discussed a moment ago, as well, is that young people are really concerned about the cost of living, about getting decentjobs, about being able to buy theirfirst home. and decentjobs, about being able to buy their first home. and what error message is as plaid cymru is to be able to secure that a fair funding for wales. you know, that positive future that young people really want. ~ . . . future that young people really want. ~ ., ., , ., ., future that young people really want. ~ ., .,, ., ., ., future that young people really want. ~ ., ., ., want. what i was going to ask as i was reading _ want. what i was going to ask as i was reading about _ want. what i was going to ask as i was reading about you, _ want. what i was going to ask as i was reading about you, you i want. what i was going to ask as i i was reading about you, you became a carer for was reading about you, you became a carerfor your was reading about you, you became a carer for your father who has dementia when he you were 11i, didn't you know you are a carer, so as a young person you are to grow up very quickly. therefore, that you have a kind of sensibility about civic life, about politics earlier, about what you needed in your life to make your life better? that what you needed in your life to make your life better?— your life better? that is what ultimately — your life better? that is what ultimately got _ your life better? that is what ultimately got me _ your life better? that is what ultimately got me involved i your life better? that is whatj ultimately got me involved in politics, i guess. ultimately got me involved in politics, iguess. i ultimately got me involved in politics, i guess. iwanted ultimately got me involved in politics, i guess. i wanted to change how young carers are treated. that is what kind of got me involved in politics. but i think, you know, just what you have set there, as young people are all types of people, they have all types of different life experiences that are important to be recognised in politics. important to be recognised in olitics. . ~ important to be recognised in olitics. ., ~' , ., , important to be recognised in olitics. ., ,, , ., , . politics. thank you very much indeed for 'oinin: politics. thank you very much indeed forjoining us- _ politics. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. just _ politics. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. just very _ politics. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. just very struck- forjoining us. just very struck there, youth polling, i wonder if you are actually to have a youthful which was just about national service, what you might get back on that. —— youth poll. 0lder service, what you might get back on that. —— youth poll. older people say they want to be pulled to because grandparents are apparently extremely angry about young people being asked to do national service. in 2010, david cameron brought in the national assistance service, i was involved in the delivery of that for many years, so i remember it being something that was very popular. also something that was very expensive. not everybody... irlat very expensive. not everybody... not many people know that. i _ very expensive. not everybody... not many people know that. i watched i very expensive. not everybody... not many people know that. i watched it, | many people know that. i watched it, i feel ve many people know that. i watched it, i feel very old — many people know that. i watched it, i feel very old right _ many people know that. i watched it, i feel very old right now. _ many people know that. i watched it, i feel very old right now. to - many people know that. i watched it, i feel very old right now. to be i ifeel very old right now. to be honest with you, i think something like a national service is needed and could be something that allows people to have a sense of collectivism, a sense of connection. having said that, how it was launched and the motive behind it, or at least how it was perceived, is probably the bigger challenge. in and of itself, i don't think it is a bad thing. a, and of itself, i don't think it is a bad thing-— and of itself, i don't think it is a bad thing. and of itself, i don't think it is a badthinu. �* ., ., , ., bad thing. a lot of young people do volunteering- _ bad thing. a lot of young people do volunteering. the _ bad thing. a lot of young people do volunteering. the fundamental - volunteering. the fundamental -roblem volunteering. the fundamental problem with _ volunteering. the fundamental problem with it _ volunteering. the fundamental problem with it is _ volunteering. the fundamental problem with it is announced i volunteering. the fundamental| problem with it is announced as volunteering. the fundamental i problem with it is announced as it was announced at the time as rishi sunak— was announced at the time as rishi sunak was— was announced at the time as rishi sunak was saying that the key offer of the _ sunak was saying that the key offer of the conservatives, the key difference the conservatives were offering _ difference the conservatives were offering is that they have got a plan _ offering is that they have got a plan. when asked any questions about it, plan. when asked any questions about it. you _ plan. when asked any questions about it. you could _ plan. when asked any questions about it, you could not answer them. he hasn't _ it, you could not answer them. he hasn't got — it, you could not answer them. he hasn't got a — it, you could not answer them. he hasn't got a plan about national service — hasn't got a plan about national service. last night he said, may be the penalty— service. last night he said, may be the penalty for not doing national service _ the penalty for not doing national service will be losing your driving licence, — service will be losing your driving licence, maybe you will lose access to finance — licence, maybe you will lose access to finance. he does not know the answers— to finance. he does not know the answers to — to finance. he does not know the answers to these questions. there's been a ton of polling during the campaign so far, but how much of it tells us how young people are feeling about what the parties are offering or not offering them? nick. we read and hear a lot about how older people are more likely to vote conservative. there was a fascinating figures recently from delta poll which showed that the crossover point is at the age of 71. what that means is if you are under the age of 71, you're more likely to vote labour. if you are over 71, you're more likely to vote conservative. what that means is you have to be born in 1953 or before to be more likely to vote conservative. in other words, the year of queen elizabeth's coronation. let's just see how the picture has changed. just five years ago, in 2019, the crossover point was 40, which means that if you are under 40 in 2019, moral likely to vote labour. which means that in 2019 you had to be born in 1979 or before to be more likely to vote conservative. in other words, likely to vote conservative. in otherwords, in likely to vote conservative. in other words, in five years, we have travelled 26 years.— travelled 26 years. what is it actually mean, _ travelled 26 years. what is it actually mean, though, - travelled 26 years. what is it actually mean, though, in i travelled 26 years. what is it - actually mean, though, in terms of how things are changing? you mentioned. — how things are changing? you mentioned, our— how things are changing? you mentioned, our people angry? i think people _ mentioned, our people angry? i think people are _ mentioned, our people angry? i think people are furious. _ mentioned, our people angry? i think people are furious. that _ mentioned, our people angry? i think people are furious. that is _ people are furious. that is something _ people are furious. that is something that _ people are furious. that is something that is really. people are furious. that is i something that is really quite dangerous— something that is really quite dangerous for— something that is really quite dangerous for the _ something that is really quite dangerous for the next - something that is really quite| dangerous for the next labour government _ dangerous for the next labour government. they— dangerous for the next labour government. they will be - dangerous for the next labour. government. they will be given dangerous for the next labour- government. they will be given an incredibly— government. they will be given an incredibly short _ government. they will be given an incredibly short leash _ government. they will be given an incredibly short leash after- government. they will be given an incredibly short leash after this - incredibly short leash after this election — incredibly short leash after this election. they— incredibly short leash after this election. they are _ incredibly short leash after this election. they are not - incredibly short leash after this election. they are not going. incredibly short leash after this election. they are not going to| incredibly short leash after this - election. they are not going to snap their fingers— election. they are not going to snap their fingers overnight _ election. they are not going to snap their fingers overnight and - election. they are not going to snap their fingers overnight and things i their fingers overnight and things are going — their fingers overnight and things are going to— their fingers overnight and things are going to he— their fingers overnight and things are going to be fixed. _ their fingers overnight and things are going to be fixed. there i their fingers overnight and things are going to be fixed. there is. are going to be fixed. there is going — are going to be fixed. there is going to — are going to be fixed. there is going to he _ are going to be fixed. there is going to be five _ are going to be fixed. there is going to be five years, - are going to be fixed. there is going to be five years, and if. going to be five years, and if things— going to be five years, and if things aren't _ going to be five years, and if things aren't materially- going to be five years, and if. things aren't materially better going to be five years, and if- things aren't materially better for people. _ things aren't materially better for people. there _ things aren't materially better for people, there will— things aren't materially better for people, there will be _ things aren't materially better for people, there will be a _ things aren't materially better for people, there will be a very- things aren't materially better forj people, there will be a very angry undercurrent— people, there will be a very angry undercurrent to _ people, there will be a very angry undercurrent to people's - people, there will be a very angry undercurrent to people's politics, | undercurrent to people's politics, which _ undercurrent to people's politics, which someone _ undercurrent to people's politics, which someone like _ undercurrent to people's politics, which someone like nigel- undercurrent to people's politics, which someone like nigel farage| which someone like nigel farage would _ which someone like nigel farage would love — which someone like nigel farage would love to _ which someone like nigel farage would love to tap _ which someone like nigel farage would love to tap into. _ which someone like nigel farage would love to tap into. iiriliiho i which someone like nigel farage would love to tap into.— which someone like nigel farage would love to tap into. who will tap into that? when _ would love to tap into. who will tap into that? when you _ would love to tap into. who will tap into that? when you look— would love to tap into. who will tap into that? when you look at - would love to tap into. who will tap into that? when you look at the i would love to tap into. who will tap| into that? when you look at the uk, the established parties, in other areas of europe, things are breaking up areas of europe, things are breaking up all the time, new parties are being formed all the time. it is perfectly possible we will have a different system. are you picking up that the established parties and offering young people what they want? ., offering young people what they want? . ., _ , want? yeah, i would say there is definitely an _ want? yeah, i would say there is definitely an element _ want? yeah, i would say there is definitely an element of- want? yeah, i would say there is definitely an element of that. i want? yeah, i would say there is i definitely an element of that. when it comes to the reform party, they are cutting through a little bit more in terms of the share ability and the sound bites that we see. young people have been telling me that they remember that stuff more because they share ability of someone like nigel farage is far greater. but at the crux of it all, young peoplejust greater. but at the crux of it all, young people just want to feel like the politicians are on their side. the political points scoring comes to an end, and that there is somebody in their corner backing them when it comes to the really big issues likejobs, child care, housing, and the cost of living. obviously we have got all the manifestos here, you look at the manifestos, do you think for young people, actually, labour has been very timid?— very timid? they have been very timid. very timid? they have been very timid- thev _ very timid? they have been very timid. they have _ very timid? they have been very timid. they have talked - very timid? they have been very timid. they have talked about i very timid? they have been very l timid. they have talked about rent reform. _ timid. they have talked about rent reform, abolishing _ timid. they have talked about rent reform, abolishing the _ timid. they have talked about rent reform, abolishing the bidding i reform, abolishing the bidding process — reform, abolishing the bidding process. which _ reform, abolishing the bidding process. which i _ reform, abolishing the bidding process. which i think- reform, abolishing the bidding process. which i think a - reform, abolishing the bidding process. which i think a lot i reform, abolishing the bidding process. which i think a lot doj reform, abolishing the biddingl process. which i think a lot do i reform, abolishing the bidding i process. which i think a lot do i do not rent _ process. which i think a lot do i do not rent will — process. which i think a lot do i do not rent will be _ process. which i think a lot do i do not rent will be astonished - process. which i think a lot do i do not rent will be astonished about. i know— not rent will be astonished about. i know someone who _ not rent will be astonished about. i know someone who had _ not rent will be astonished about. i know someone who had to - not rent will be astonished about. i know someone who had to put i not rent will be astonished about. i know someone who had to put a i know someone who had to put a deposit — know someone who had to put a deposit down _ know someone who had to put a deposit down of _ know someone who had to put a deposit down of six _ know someone who had to put a deposit down of six months i know someone who had to put a deposit down of six months rent know someone who had to put a i deposit down of six months rent in order to _ deposit down of six months rent in order to secure _ deposit down of six months rent in order to secure a _ deposit down of six months rent in order to secure a house. _ deposit down of six months rent in order to secure a house. they- deposit down of six months rent in order to secure a house. they are i order to secure a house. they are throwing — order to secure a house. they are throwing voung _ order to secure a house. they are throwing young people _ order to secure a house. they are throwing young people a - order to secure a house. they are throwing young people a bone i order to secure a house. they are i throwing young people a bone with the votes _ throwing young people a bone with the votes for — throwing young people a bone with the votes for 16—year—olds - throwing young people a bone with the votes for 16—year—olds and i the votes for 16—year—olds and parading — the votes for 16—year—olds and parading that _ the votes for16—year—olds and parading that. i— the votes for16—year—olds and parading that. i do— the votes for 16—year—olds and parading that. i do not- the votes for 16—year—olds and parading that. i do not think. the votes for 16—year—olds and i parading that. i do not think they are doing — parading that. i do not think they are doing enough _ parading that. i do not think they are doing enough for— parading that. i do not think they are doing enough for young - parading that. i do not think they. are doing enough for young people. they are _ are doing enough for young people. they are the — are doing enough for young people. they are the beneficiary _ are doing enough for young people. they are the beneficiary of - are doing enough for young people. they are the beneficiary of not i they are the beneficiary of not heing — they are the beneficiary of not heing the _ they are the beneficiary of not being the conceptus. - they are the beneficiary of not being the conceptus. people l they are the beneficiary of not i being the conceptus. people are angry— being the conceptus. people are angry with — being the conceptus. people are angry with the _ being the conceptus. people are angry with the conservatives i being the conceptus. people are| angry with the conservatives and labour _ angry with the conservatives and labour are — angry with the conservatives and labour are hoovering _ angry with the conservatives and labour are hoovering up- angry with the conservatives and labour are hoovering up those i angry with the conservatives and i labour are hoovering up those votes. what _ labour are hoovering up those votes. what you _ labour are hoovering up those votes. what you think — labour are hoovering up those votes. what you think about _ labour are hoovering up those votes. what you think about that, _ labour are hoovering up those votes. what you think about that, nick? i what you think about that, nick? there is research out today, they have interviewed 3516—24 —year—olds picking up on what polly was saying, less than one in five young people think that politicians respect people like them. this survey is broken into socio— economic groups, one half below £35,000, the other half above. the top issues, cost of living, economy and inflation, nhs and hospitals. the two income groups are pretty much tight on where they think they are important issues. but on issue numberfor mac, which is poverty and inequality, that is the first one where lower income groups think it is more important. on housing, again, lower income groups think it is more important. and number six, which is climate change, it is higher income groups that think it is a bigger deal.- it is higher income groups that think it is a bigger deal. thank you ve much think it is a bigger deal. thank you very much indeed _ think it is a bigger deal. thank you very much indeed for— think it is a bigger deal. thank you very much indeed for that. - earlier tonight, nigel farage, on a bbc interview for panorama, disparaged nato, saying the west "provoked" russia's invasion of ukraine by expanding the eu and nato eastwards. when vladimir putin sent his troops across the border in '22. you blamed the west, not him. you said — i'lljust read it to you, then you can react — on a tweet, "it was a consequence of eu and nato expansion". yes. is that a judgment you stand by? right, i'll tell you what you don't know. i stood up in the european parliament in 2014 and i said, and i quote, "there will be a war in ukraine." why did i say that? it was obvious to me that the ever eastward expansion of nato and the european union was giving this man a reason, to his russian people, to say, "they are coming for us again," and to go to war. but you were echoing him. iwas... sorry? you were echoing him. that's what putin says. no, no. sorry, i've been saying this, actually, since the 19905. well, quick reaction to that. strong reaction across _ well, quick reaction to that. strong reaction across the _ well, quick reaction to that. strong reaction across the political- reaction across the political spectrum. the shadow defence secretary described those remarks is disgraceful. james cleverly, home secretary, has tweeted, just nigel farage echoing putin's justification for the brittle is —— brutal justification for the invasion of ukraine. one, vladimir putin was wrong to invade ukraine, the second run thing is he said that the west, nato, the eu sort of provoked him by expanding eastwards. he is nato, the eu sort of provoked him by expanding eastwards.— expanding eastwards. he is really doubfinr expanding eastwards. he is really doubling down — expanding eastwards. he is really doubling down on _ expanding eastwards. he is really doubling down on it. _ expanding eastwards. he is really doubling down on it. there i expanding eastwards. he is really doubling down on it. there is i expanding eastwards. he is really doubling down on it. there is a i doubling down on it. there is a school of _ doubling down on it. there is a school of thought _ doubling down on it. there is a school of thought on _ doubling down on it. there is a school of thought on the i doubling down on it. there is a school of thought on the left i doubling down on it. there is a i school of thought on the left and on the right which says that nato was wrong to expand into the east, as was the european union. the counterargument to that is that those former warsaw pact countries wanted to do that, and they had referendums on it.— wanted to do that, and they had referendums on it. what do you make ofthat referendums on it. what do you make of that tonight? _ referendums on it. what do you make of that tonight? it — referendums on it. what do you make of that tonight? it is _ referendums on it. what do you make of that tonight? it is like _ referendums on it. what do you make of that tonight? it is like the - of that tonight? it is like the extraordinary _ of that tonight? it is like the extraordinary thing - of that tonight? it is like the extraordinary thing to i of that tonight? it is like the extraordinary thing to say. l of that tonight? it is like the extraordinary thing to say. i | of that tonight? it is like the i extraordinary thing to say. i think it does— extraordinary thing to say. i think it does show that there are quite a lot of— it does show that there are quite a lot of areas— it does show that there are quite a lot of areas were nigel farage's positions — lot of areas were nigel farage's positions are not actually in the mainstream of what the british people — mainstream of what the british people tend to believe. he is in a lot more — people tend to believe. he is in a lot more comfortable ground when he talks about _ lot more comfortable ground when he talks about immigration, when he talks— talks about immigration, when he talks about immigration, when he talks about the levels of public spending, when he says you can spend money— spending, when he says you can spend money by— spending, when he says you can spend money by cutting back on a lot of waste. _ money by cutting back on a lot of waste, than he talks about foreign policv _ waste, than he talks about foreign policv a _ waste, than he talks about foreign policy. a lot of the things he says are slightly cranky, cranky, actuallv~ _ are slightly cranky, cranky, actually. the idea that nato expanding is some kind of conquest that is— expanding is some kind of conquest that is akin— expanding is some kind of conquest that is akin to what vladimir putin is doing _ that is akin to what vladimir putin is doing is— that is akin to what vladimir putin is doing is it — that is akin to what vladimir putin is doing is it a complete misunderstanding of the nature of why people might want to join nato. but he _ why people might want to join nato. but he is _ why people might want to join nato. but he is doubling down. i wonder, whatever all these other thousands of reform candidates are going to be saying about that, he clearly thinks there is votes in it. i saying about that, he clearly thinks there is votes in it.— there is votes in it. i don't think ou there is votes in it. i don't think you deserve _ there is votes in it. i don't think you deserve surly _ there is votes in it. i don't think you deserve surly things - there is votes in it. i don't think you deserve surly things are i there is votes in it. i don't think i you deserve surly things are votes in it _ you deserve surly things are votes in it there — you deserve surly things are votes in it. there are quite a few stomach things— in it. there are quite a few stomach things that — in it. there are quite a few stomach things that nigel farage says that adjusting is that he thinks. as with all politicians, it is not always calculated to win votes, it is to say what — calculated to win votes, it is to say what you believe. he calculated to win votes, it is to say what you believe.- calculated to win votes, it is to say what you believe. he says he redicted say what you believe. he says he predicted this. — say what you believe. he says he predicted this, he _ say what you believe. he says he predicted this, he made - say what you believe. he says he predicted this, he made a - say what you believe. he says he | predicted this, he made a speech say what you believe. he says he i predicted this, he made a speech at the european parliament in 2014 and says, i predicted what was going to happen. d0 says, i predicted what was going to ha en. ,, says, i predicted what was going to ha--en. ~ ., says, i predicted what was going to ha--en. ~' . .,, happen. do you think that some tory voters who might _ happen. do you think that some tory voters who might actually _ happen. do you think that some tory voters who might actually be - voters who might actually be flirting with reform will be scared off by this? is flirting with reform will be scared off b this? , _, , ., flirting with reform will be scared offb this? , ,., _ off by this? is comments are deeply irresponsible _ off by this? is comments are deeply irresponsible and _ off by this? is comments are deeply irresponsible and the _ off by this? is comments are deeply irresponsible and the reality - off by this? is comments are deeply irresponsible and the reality is i irresponsible and the reality is quite — irresponsible and the reality is quite contradictory. _ irresponsible and the reality is quite contradictory. in - irresponsible and the reality is quite contradictory. in one i irresponsible and the reality is i quite contradictory. in one sense, he is _ quite contradictory. in one sense, he is very— quite contradictory. in one sense, he is very passionate _ quite contradictory. in one sense, he is very passionate about - quite contradictory. in one sense, | he is very passionate about britain having _ he is very passionate about britain having its — he is very passionate about britain having its own _ he is very passionate about britain having its own sovereignty, - he is very passionate about britain having its own sovereignty, but i he is very passionate about britain having its own sovereignty, but on the other— having its own sovereignty, but on the other side _ having its own sovereignty, but on the other side he _ having its own sovereignty, but on the other side he is— having its own sovereignty, but on the other side he is not— having its own sovereignty, but on the other side he is not a - having its own sovereignty, but on the other side he is not a living i the other side he is not a living other— the other side he is not a living other countries— the other side he is not a living other countries to _ the other side he is not a living other countries to have - the other side he is not a living i other countries to have referendums to decide _ other countries to have referendums to decide their— other countries to have referendums to decide their own _ other countries to have referendums to decide their own future. - other countries to have referendums to decide their own future. at - other countries to have referendums to decide their own future. at least. to decide their own future. at least for now, the european— to decide their own future. at least for now, the european union- to decide their own future. at least for now, the european union is- to decide their own future. at least for now, the european union is not| for now, the european union is not even _ for now, the european union is not even a _ for now, the european union is not even a military— for now, the european union is not even a military project. _ for now, the european union is not even a military project. so - for now, the european union is not even a military project. so i - for now, the european union is not even a military project. so i think. even a military project. so i think on reflection _ even a military project. so i think on reflection he _ even a military project. so i think on reflection he probably- even a military project. so i think on reflection he probably would l even a military project. so i think- on reflection he probably would have preferred _ on reflection he probably would have preferred not — on reflection he probably would have preferred not have _ on reflection he probably would have preferred not have said _ on reflection he probably would have preferred not have said those - on reflection he probably would have preferred not have said those thingsl preferred not have said those things ten years— preferred not have said those things ten years add — preferred not have said those things ten years ago. like _ preferred not have said those things ten years ago. like many— preferred not have said those things ten years ago. like many of- preferred not have said those things ten years ago. like many of us, - preferred not have said those things ten years ago. like many of us, wei ten years ago. like many of us, we have _ ten years ago. like many of us, we have probably— ten years ago. like many of us, we have probably said _ ten years ago. like many of us, we have probably said things - ten years ago. like many of us, we have probably said things that - ten years ago. like many of us, we have probably said things that we i have probably said things that we would _ have probably said things that we would not — have probably said things that we would not have _ have probably said things that we would not have wanted _ have probably said things that we would not have wanted to - have probably said things that we would not have wanted to ten - have probably said things that we . would not have wanted to ten years a lo. would not have wanted to ten years ago but _ would not have wanted to ten years ago but the — would not have wanted to ten years ago but the fact _ would not have wanted to ten years ago. but the fact he _ would not have wanted to ten years ago. but the fact he is _ would not have wanted to ten years ago. but the fact he is doubling - ago. but the fact he is doubling down _ ago. but the fact he is doubling down show— ago. but the fact he is doubling down showsjust _ ago. but the fact he is doubling down showsjust how— ago. but the fact he is doubling| down shows just how dangerous ago. but the fact he is doubling - down showsjust how dangerous he can be for— down showsjust how dangerous he can be for us _ down showsjust how dangerous he can be for us our— down showsjust how dangerous he can be for us. our express _ down showsjust how dangerous he can be for us. our express merit _ down showsjust how dangerous he can be for us. our express merit right- be for us. our express merit right now _ be for us. our express merit right now. , look at some of the front pages. labour has turned its back on women. an attack byjk rowling on keir starmer. the guardian— they got on the 300 million nhs patient records stolen by russian hackers. labour draws up well tax options. moving on to the telegraph —ist keir starmer will reverse brexit says kemi badenoch. a picture there on the right of the prince of wales birthday. nigel farage, west provoked pressure to attack ukraine — the daily mail. nigel farage is getting the front pages. the west provoked putin, a theory as reform leader suggests nato was to blame for the invasion. the ft weekend have a different story, rich foreigners turn away from the uk. and the i, a completely different story, nationaltrust and the i, a completely different story, national trust challenges uk leaders to save britain's rivers. that is just about that. but just to pick up on

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