brexit has been the great unmentionable so far in the selection. but tonight keir starmer called for closer ties with the eu. louisville just that and what can the party's social media campaigns tell us about the state of the race. good evening. welcome to newsnight, home to analysis and interviews. who would have imagined at the last election that the towering presence of brexit would hardly register as an issue half way through the next election campaign? it has not gone away as an issue, itjust seems to have been parked by all the main parties... ..for now. but tonight the labour leader, sir keir starmer, whose ming vase strategy started by saying as little as possible about britain's exit from the european union, has under the bbc�*s questioning given the fullest account of how a possible labour government would approach this thorny issue. we will be exploring that with the head of labour's pro—european bloc, and the conservatives new approach to the election leaning in to devastating polls about them with our panel kirsty buchanan, a former adviser to theresa may, and rachel cunliffe associate political editor of the new statesman. plus a big announcement from the palacea knighhood for the post office campaigner alan bates. but first here's nick with the very latest. it is interesting you are saying that keir starmer wants to have a closer relationship with the eu. he clearly wants to do that. you just have to look at his manifesto, he discusses the eu in a session called britain reconnected, as if we are not connected now. and that is david lammy with keir starmer outside the bundestag. i cannot imagine any conservative leader allowing that kind of thing did you appear. john major said the uk is at the heart of europe and then he went to see helmut kohl, the then chancellor of germany. so how to get an idea of how keir starmer envisages our relationship with the eu if he becomes prime minister, let's listen to this exchange this evening with nick robinson. we've left and we're not going back into membership of the eu. so you're not that keen on growth. that means the single market, the customs union... you're not that keen on growth, then. well, two or three things about that, nick. the first is i do think we can do better than the botched deal we got under borisjohnson, i think every business thinks that. so, if there are businesses that are watching this, yes, i hear what you say about the barriers to trade, and we are going to do something about that. but the second thing — and i think this is important — is, if you look at the problems for growth over the last 14 years, they were there, or many of them were there, before brexit. so the idea that there is a sort of single silver bullet, it is simply the relationship with the eu, is not something i accept. so close but carefully calibrated, so not rejoining and not entering the economic architecture like the single market and that would mean the free movement. redline, will not have that. he describes boris johnson's botched deal and as a first step would soften border controls, make the northern ireland gb checks much easier. and european court ofjustice and he is more relaxed about that and talks about tearing down any unnecessary barriers to trade. if, as keir starmer says your primary goal is to have economic growth, you would need a closer relationship with your nearest trading partners. john curtice said if keir starmer wins well around 75% of his electoral coalition would have a pro—european perspective. but cautious, because the eu up to now for keir starmer was kryptonite because it was one of the big factors of reversing brexit around the last election which led to a big labour defeat. what around the last election which led to a big labour defeat.— around the last election which led to a big labour defeat. what do you make of that. _ to a big labour defeat. what do you make of that, rachel? _ to a big labour defeat. what do you make of that, rachel? i— to a big labour defeat. what do you make of that, rachel? i don't - to a big labour defeat. what do you make of that, rachel? i don't think| make of that, rachel? i don't think it told us anything _ make of that, rachel? i don't think it told us anything we _ make of that, rachel? i don't think it told us anything we haven't - make of that, rachel? i don't think it told us anything we haven't had i it told us anything we haven't had the signs— it told us anything we haven't had the signs for watching labour over the signs for watching labour over the past _ the signs for watching labour over the past year. david lammy, the shadow— the past year. david lammy, the shadow foreign secretary has been clear his _ shadow foreign secretary has been clear his guiding philosophy is what he called _ clear his guiding philosophy is what he called progressive realism, dealing — he called progressive realism, dealing with the world as it is rather— dealing with the world as it is rather than you wish it were. the reality— rather than you wish it were. the reality is, — rather than you wish it were. the reality is, britain left the eu and that decision has been made. but the relationships that we have with european — relationships that we have with european partners, particularly the french— european partners, particularly the french and — european partners, particularly the french and germans have been really damaged _ french and germans have been really damaged by the last couple of years of conservative government and that there are _ of conservative government and that there are ways that labour can rebuild — there are ways that labour can rebuild those ties and move closer together— rebuild those ties and move closer together without rejoining the european union. together without re'oining the european union._ together without re'oining the european union. together without re'oining the euroean union. , , y., ., european union. kirsty, you were an incumbent in — european union. kirsty, you were an incumbent in the _ european union. kirsty, you were an incumbent in the brexit _ european union. kirsty, you were an incumbent in the brexit walls, - european union. kirsty, you were an| incumbent in the brexit walls, where you surprised how little it is being mentioned? it you surprised how little it is being mentioned?— you surprised how little it is being mentioned? ., ,�* , mentioned? it doesn't benefit either -a at the mentioned? it doesn't benefit either party at the moment _ mentioned? it doesn't benefit either party at the moment to _ mentioned? it doesn't benefit either party at the moment to talk - mentioned? it doesn't benefit either party at the moment to talk about i party at the moment to talk about brexit _ party at the moment to talk about brexit i_ party at the moment to talk about brexit i am — party at the moment to talk about brexit. i am surprised _ party at the moment to talk about brexit. i am surprised he - party at the moment to talk about brexit. i am surprised he has- party at the moment to talk about| brexit. i am surprised he has gone as far— brexit. i am surprised he has gone as far as he — brexit. i am surprised he has gone as faras he has— brexit. i am surprised he has gone as far as he has in— brexit. i am surprised he has gone as far as he has in that _ brexit. i am surprised he has gone as far as he has in that interview. i as far as he has in that interview. what _ as far as he has in that interview. what is _ as far as he has in that interview. what is fascinating, _ as far as he has in that interview. what is fascinating, he _ as far as he has in that interview. what is fascinating, he is- as far as he has in that interview. what is fascinating, he is rolling. what is fascinating, he is rolling out in _ what is fascinating, he is rolling out in that — what is fascinating, he is rolling out in that interview _ what is fascinating, he is rolling out in that interview going - what is fascinating, he is rolling out in that interview going back| out in that interview going back into a _ out in that interview going back into a single _ out in that interview going back into a single market _ out in that interview going back into a single market and - out in that interview going back into a single market and the . out in that interview going back - into a single market and the customs union _ into a single market and the customs union but _ into a single market and the customs union but the — into a single market and the customs union. but the issue _ into a single market and the customs union. but the issue there _ into a single market and the customs union. but the issue there is - into a single market and the customs union. but the issue there is for- union. but the issue there is for this time, — union. but the issue there is for this time, everything _ union. but the issue there is for this time, everything keir- union. but the issue there is for. this time, everything keir starmer is talking — this time, everything keir starmer is talking about _ this time, everything keir starmer is talking about is _ this time, everything keir starmer is talking about is predicated - this time, everything keir starmer is talking about is predicated on . is talking about is predicated on growth — is talking about is predicated on growth and _ is talking about is predicated on growth and growth _ is talking about is predicated on growth and growth needs - is talking about is predicated onl growth and growth needs regular is talking about is predicated on - growth and growth needs regular to reform. _ growth and growth needs regular to reform. planning— growth and growth needs regular to reform, planning reform, _ reform, planning reform, infrastructure _ reform, planning reform, infrastructure reform. - reform, planning reform, . infrastructure reform. none reform, planning reform, - infrastructure reform. none of reform, planning reform, _ infrastructure reform. none of these things— infrastructure reform. none of these things come — infrastructure reform. none of these things come quickly, _ infrastructure reform. none of these things come quickly, they— infrastructure reform. none of these things come quickly, they take - things come quickly, they take years and years _ things come quickly, they take years and years when _ things come quickly, they take years and years. when you _ things come quickly, they take years and years. when you have _ things come quickly, they take years and years. when you have a - things come quickly, they take years and years. when you have a large i and years. when you have a large labour _ and years. when you have a large labour government, _ and years. when you have a large labour government, the - and years. when you have a large labour government, the chancesl labour government, the chances that growth _ labour government, the chances that growth doesn't — labour government, the chances that growth doesn't come _ labour government, the chances that growth doesn't come as _ labour government, the chances that growth doesn't come as quickly- labour government, the chances that growth doesn't come as quickly as . growth doesn't come as quickly as anyone _ growth doesn't come as quickly as anyone would _ growth doesn't come as quickly as anyone would hope, _ growth doesn't come as quickly as anyone would hope, the _ growth doesn't come as quickly as anyone would hope, the pressurel growth doesn't come as quickly as i anyone would hope, the pressure will start to _ anyone would hope, the pressure will start to come — anyone would hope, the pressure will start to come back— anyone would hope, the pressure will start to come back on _ anyone would hope, the pressure will start to come back on him _ anyone would hope, the pressure will start to come back on him to - anyone would hope, the pressure will start to come back on him to say - start to come back on him to say actuaiiy, — start to come back on him to say actually, you _ start to come back on him to say actually, you really— start to come back on him to say actually, you really want - start to come back on him to sayl actually, you really want growth? the easiest — actually, you really want growth? the easiest way— actually, you really want growth? the easiest way to _ actually, you really want growth? the easiest way to get _ actually, you really want growth? the easiest way to get it - actually, you really want growth? the easiest way to get it for- the easiest way to get it for britain _ the easiest way to get it for britain is _ the easiest way to get it for britain is to _ the easiest way to get it for britain is to go _ the easiest way to get it for britain is to go back- the easiest way to get it for britain is to go back into- the easiest way to get it for| britain is to go back into the conrnron— britain is to go back into the common market, _ britain is to go back into the common market, go- britain is to go back into the common market, go back. britain is to go back into the common market, go back in britain is to go back into the - common market, go back in with our iriggest _ common market, go back in with our iriggest trading — common market, go back in with our biggest trading partner. _ biggest trading partner. interestingly— biggest trading partner. interestingly for- biggest trading partner. | interestingly for labour, biggest trading partner. - interestingly for labour, this is a ten year— interestingly for labour, this is a ten year project _ interestingly for labour, this is a ten year project for _ interestingly for labour, this is a ten year project for keir - interestingly for labour, this is al ten year project for keir starmer, reform _ ten year project for keir starmer, reform and — ten year project for keir starmer, reform and renewal. _ ten year project for keir starmer, reform and renewal. belletti - ten year project for keir starmer,| reform and renewal. belletti what happens _ reform and renewal. belletti what happens in — reform and renewal. belletti what happens in terms _ reform and renewal. belletti what happens in terms of— reform and renewal. belletti what happens in terms of pressure - reform and renewal. belletti what i happens in terms of pressure about what they— happens in terms of pressure about what they say — happens in terms of pressure about what they say going _ happens in terms of pressure about what they say going into _ happens in terms of pressure about what they say going into a second l what they say going into a second term _ what they say going into a second term. ., , . ., , what they say going into a second term. . ,. . , ., term. fascinating they may have thou~ht term. fascinating they may have thought about _ term. fascinating they may have thought about what _ term. fascinating they may have thought about what theresa - term. fascinating they may havej thought about what theresa may was offered. we will talk to stella creasy he was standing for labour in the election. also the national chair of the labour movement for europe. thank you forjoining us. listening to this election campaign so far, you would think a brexited matter, everyone is trying to avoid talking about it? it is matter, everyone is trying to avoid talking about it?— talking about it? it is interesting, renuinel talking about it? it is interesting, genuinely l _ talking about it? it is interesting, genuinely i talk _ talking about it? it is interesting, genuinely i talk to _ talking about it? it is interesting, genuinely i talk to candidates - genuinely i talk to candidates across the country. we have 55 standing endorsed by the labour movement for europe and existing candidates like myself who are part of it. it is starting to come up on the doorstep. it is coming up because of the everyday problems it is causing. businesses can no longer trade with our nearest neighbours. people finding trouble travelling and some of the problems created by the visa scheme and the paperwork people are dealing with and the recognition it is leading to problems in our food supply chain. it is starting to come through as an issue on its own, absolutely nowhere nearas issue on its own, absolutely nowhere near as big as concerns of the cost of living, housing or international affairs. but i have been surprised at how much people are starting to put the dots together to see the damage that brexit has done. that is from our damage that brexit has done. that is from your perspective, _ damage that brexit has done. that is from your perspective, but _ from your perspective, but intriguing words from your leader tonight to businesses. i hear what you're saying about barriers to trade and we will do something about it. that is a bit more than what was in the manifesto? i it. that is a bit more than what was in the manifesto?— in the manifesto? i think it is aood. i in the manifesto? i think it is good. i thought _ in the manifesto? i think it is good. i thought what - in the manifesto? i think it is good. i thought what he - in the manifesto? i think it is good. i thought what he said| in the manifesto? i think it is - good. i thought what he said was right, we have long—standing problems in the uk economy and in those challenges, brexit has disproportionately compounded them. because frankly there are many things you can fight in life, but geography isn't one of them. your ability to trade with neighbours is crucial to your economy and businesses have been saying, because one of the things people don't realise is, the trade incorporation agreement was a bad deal and that is why some others didn't support it at all. but what this government has done since has compounded some of the barriers people are facing. talk to the food importers tearing their hair out at the brexit border and the problems in putting food into this country is entirely of this conservative government's making. and keir is saying, not going back to 2016 and 2019 and having the same arguments, it is about now and the margins being cut into our making these businesses say it is not worth it and i am worried about what will happen in the next couple of weeks when those invoices drop for their charges. when those invoices drop for their charaes. �* . . when those invoices drop for their charaes. . . . ., charges. advanced manufacturing hasn't been _ charges. advanced manufacturing hasn't been as _ charges. advanced manufacturing hasn't been as bad _ charges. advanced manufacturing hasn't been as bad as _ charges. advanced manufacturing hasn't been as bad as some - charges. advanced manufacturing| hasn't been as bad as some might have suspected but you talked about geography being important... gdp has fallen 496, 5%- — geography being important... gdp has fallen 496, 596. that _ geography being important... gdp has fallen 496, 596. that is _ geography being important. .. gdp has fallen 496, 596. that is over— geography being important... gdp has fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 - fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 ears, fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 years. and — fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 years, and that _ fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 years, and that hasn't - fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 i years, and that hasn't happened fallen 496, 596. that is over 15 - years, and that hasn't happened yet according to the obr. angela rayner was clear that labour would notjoin the eu of the single market. your party is a pro—brexit party, of brexit? i party is a pro-brexit party, of brexit? , ., , party is a pro-brexit party, of brexit? , . , . ., party is a pro-brexit party, of brexit? , ., , . ., ., brexit? i sit here as the chair of the labour— brexit? i sit here as the chair of the labour movement - brexit? i sit here as the chair of the labour movement for- brexit? i sit here as the chair of. the labour movement for europe brexit? i sit here as the chair of- the labour movement for europe and i think we don't know what the single market look like. europe is cutting a review of the single market because it doesn't work for them. we have to talk what we see in front of us and what is in front of us, what we can do now. i am worried about the british businesses who don't have time for treaty negotiations. we are champing at the pan—european mediterranean convention, a series of clues about rules of origin. you are talking about manufacturing, that would make a big difference to those creating goods to import and export them and that is something we could negotiate quickly. as part of the conversation, 0k, we voted to leave the european union, a decision the british public made. but did they vote for the problems that have come with that or are there things we can do within the confines of that vote that would make a tangible difference to people's lies. i argue reducing the paperwork and trade barriers code and that is what we are focused on. i barriers code and that is what we are focused on.— barriers code and that is what we are focused on. i don't think we are talkin: are focused on. i don't think we are talking about _ are focused on. i don't think we are talking about accumulation - are focused on. i don't think we are talking about accumulation on - talking about accumulation on newsnight, but something easier to understand. , ., newsnight, but something easier to understand._ the | understand. somebody has to. the outh of understand. somebody has to. the youth of feasibility _ understand. somebody has to. the youth of feasibility scheme, - understand. somebody has to. the youth of feasibility scheme, you i youth of feasibility scheme, you offered that. the tory said no and labour said offered that. the tory said no and laboursaid no, how do offered that. the tory said no and labour said no, how do you explain that to your younger voters? i labour said no, how do you explain that to your younger voters? i have been very clear. — that to your younger voters? i have been very clear, i _ that to your younger voters? i have been very clear, i don't _ that to your younger voters? i have been very clear, i don't think- that to your younger voters? i have been very clear, i don't think we i been very clear, i don't think we should rule out looking at what has been put forward and i think what was put forward wouldn't work for this country. i am a great proponent of let's start talking to europe and recognising and respecting the fact they are still making time for us. in any of these conversations, we cannot underplay how damaged our relationship with europe has been by brexit and the subsequent behaviour of conservative prime ministers like borisjohnson. liz of conservative prime ministers like boris johnson. liz truss went to europe and didn't know whether the french were friend or foe. people are coming forward with proposals and the conservative government was trying to negotiate a youth mobility scheme. we should have said, let's see what you are talking about, this doesn't work, but let's be open—minded about what might benefit british consumers and british businesses. 70% of the public think a youth mobility scheme is a good idea. i a youth mobility scheme is a good idea. ~ ~ , idea. i think the prime minister would argue — idea. i think the prime minister would argue he _ idea. i think the prime minister would argue he did _ idea. i think the prime minister would argue he did do - idea. i think the prime minister would argue he did do a - idea. i think the prime minister would argue he did do a decent negotiation with the european union on the wind is a framework for now. but thank you forjoining us. back to you, kirsty there is another side of this argument and the reform surge in the polls at least and then a new argument we are hearing where many of the parties are just suggesting the election is done and dusted and even now the conservatives are joining in with that? conservatives are “oining in with that? �* ., conservatives are “oining in with that? �* . ~ conservatives are “oining in with that? . ,, ., that? bear in mind those kind of vote reform _ that? bear in mind those kind of vote reform and _ that? bear in mind those kind of vote reform and get _ that? bear in mind those kind of vote reform and get keir- that? bear in mind those kind of. vote reform and get keir starmer messages, — vote reform and get keir starmer messages, normally— vote reform and get keir starmer messages, normally wouldn't i vote reform and get keir starmerl messages, normally wouldn't hear until the _ messages, normally wouldn't hear until the tail — messages, normally wouldn't hear until the tail end _ messages, normally wouldn't hear until the tail end of— messages, normally wouldn't hear until the tail end of the _ messages, normally wouldn't hear until the tail end of the week- until the tail end of the week before — until the tail end of the week before but _ until the tail end of the week before. but the _ until the tail end of the week before. but the postal- until the tail end of the week before. but the postal votesi until the tail end of the week. before. but the postal votes will start _ before. but the postal votes will start out — before. but the postal votes will start out which _ before. but the postal votes will start out which is _ before. but the postal votes will start out which is why _ before. but the postal votes will start out which is why we - before. but the postal votes will start out which is why we see i before. but the postal votes will. start out which is why we see this argument — start out which is why we see this argument now _ start out which is why we see this argument now. the _ start out which is why we see this argument now. the polls- start out which is why we see this argument now. the polls haven'tl argument now. the polls haven't shifted, — argument now. the polls haven't shifted, we — argument now. the polls haven't shifted, we have _ argument now. the polls haven't shifted, we have had _ argument now. the polls haven't shifted, we have had the - argument now. the polls haven't. shifted, we have had the debates, the manifesto _ shifted, we have had the debates, the manifesto is _ shifted, we have had the debates, the manifesto is out _ shifted, we have had the debates, the manifesto is out and _ shifted, we have had the debates, the manifesto is out and a - shifted, we have had the debates, the manifesto is out and a series. shifted, we have had the debates, l the manifesto is out and a series of catastrophic— the manifesto is out and a series of catastrophic own _ the manifesto is out and a series of catastrophic own gold _ the manifesto is out and a series of catastrophic own gold by— the manifesto is out and a series of catastrophic own gold by the - catastrophic own gold by the conservatives. _ catastrophic own gold by the conservatives. the - catastrophic own gold by the i conservatives. the conservatives vote is _ conservatives. the conservatives vote is cratering, _ conservatives. the conservatives vote is cratering, it _ conservatives. the conservatives vote is cratering, it is _ conservatives. the conservatives vote is cratering, it is less- conservatives. the conservatives vote is cratering, it is less than. vote is cratering, it is less than half— vote is cratering, it is less than half of— vote is cratering, it is less than half of what _ vote is cratering, it is less than half of what it _ vote is cratering, it is less than half of what it was _ vote is cratering, it is less than half of what it was in _ vote is cratering, it is less than half of what it was in 2019, i vote is cratering, it is less than half of what it was in 2019, to i vote is cratering, it is less than. half of what it was in 2019, to put it into _ half of what it was in 2019, to put it into perspective. _ half of what it was in 2019, to put it into perspective. even- half of what it was in 2019, to put it into perspective. even though i half of what it was in 2019, to put . it into perspective. even though the public— it into perspective. even though the public are _ it into perspective. even though the public are not— it into perspective. even though the public are not sold _ it into perspective. even though the public are not sold on _ it into perspective. even though the public are not sold on keir- it into perspective. even though the public are not sold on keir starmerl public are not sold on keir starmer and the _ public are not sold on keir starmer and the labour— public are not sold on keir starmer and the labour project _ public are not sold on keir starmer and the labour project at - public are not sold on keir starmer and the labour project at all, i public are not sold on keir starmer and the labour project at all, what| and the labour project at all, what they have — and the labour project at all, what they have been _ and the labour project at all, what they have been reduced _ and the labour project at all, what they have been reduced to - and the labour project at all, what . they have been reduced to is saying, actually, _ they have been reduced to is saying, actually, even — they have been reduced to is saying, actually, even if— they have been reduced to is saying, actually, even if 6 _ they have been reduced to is saying, actually, even if 6 million _ they have been reduced to is saying, actually, even if 6 million plus- actually, even if 6 million plus people — actually, even if 6 million plus people vote _ actually, even if 6 million plus people vote for— actually, even if 6 million plus people vote for reform, - actually, even if 6 million plus. people vote for reform, because actually, even if 6 million plus- people vote for reform, because of our first _ people vote for reform, because of our first past — people vote for reform, because of our first past the _ people vote for reform, because of our first past the post _ people vote for reform, because of our first past the post system - people vote for reform, because of our first past the post system you l our first past the post system you might _ our first past the post system you might get — our first past the post system you might get one. _ our first past the post system you might get one, possibly— our first past the post system you might get one, possibly two i our first past the post system you might get one, possibly two mpsi our first past the post system you i might get one, possibly two mps but they not— might get one, possibly two mps but they not the — might get one, possibly two mps but they not the opposition _ might get one, possibly two mps but they not the opposition to _ might get one, possibly two mps but they not the opposition to labour. i they not the opposition to labour. and then — they not the opposition to labour. and then you will— they not the opposition to labour. and then you will end _ they not the opposition to labour. and then you will end up - they not the opposition to labour. and then you will end up with i they not the opposition to labour. and then you will end up with thei and then you will end up with the supermajority _ and then you will end up with the supermajority to _ and then you will end up with the supermajority to play— and then you will end up with the supermajority to play into - and then you will end up with the supermajority to play into this i supermajority to play into this unchecked _ supermajority to play into this unchecked labour— supermajority to play into this unchecked labour power- supermajority to play into this unchecked labour power and i supermajority to play into thisl unchecked labour power and to supermajority to play into this - unchecked labour power and to play into this _ unchecked labour power and to play into this cynicism _ unchecked labour power and to play into this cynicism with _ unchecked labour power and to play into this cynicism with the - unchecked labour power and to play into this cynicism with the public i into this cynicism with the public about— into this cynicism with the public about labour. _ into this cynicism with the public about labour. they— into this cynicism with the public about labour. they are - into this cynicism with the public about labour. they are not i into this cynicism with the public about labour. they are not soldl into this cynicism with the public . about labour. they are not sold on it, about labour. they are not sold on it. so _ about labour. they are not sold on it. so it _ about labour. they are not sold on it. so it is — about labour. they are not sold on it. so it is a — about labour. they are not sold on it, so it is a negative _ about labour. they are not sold on it, so it is a negative campaign i about labour. they are not sold onj it, so it is a negative campaign and to counter— it, so it is a negative campaign and to counter that _ it, so it is a negative campaign and to counter that you _ it, so it is a negative campaign and to counter that you have _ it, so it is a negative campaign and to counter that you have labour i to counter that you have labour saying. — to counter that you have labour saying. if— to counter that you have labour saying. if you _ to counter that you have labour saying, if you want _ to counter that you have labour saying, if you want change, i to counter that you have labour| saying, if you want change, vote to counter that you have labour i saying, if you want change, vote for change _ saying, if you want change, vote for chance. , �* , ., ., ., change. isn't it capitulation on behalf of the _ change. isn't it capitulation on behalf of the parties _ change. isn't it capitulation on behalf of the parties who i change. isn't it capitulation on behalf of the parties who have started this argument? she behalf of the parties who have started this argument?- started this argument? she is absolutely — started this argument? she is absolutely right _ started this argument? she is absolutely right that - started this argument? she is absolutely right that they i started this argument? she is| absolutely right that they have started — absolutely right that they have started this argument so soon in an election— started this argument so soon in an election campaign is a sign of desperation. the line from the conservative is a vote for us because _ conservative is a vote for us because you don't want to hand keir starmer— because you don't want to hand keir starmer a _ because you don't want to hand keir starmer a blank cheque and this fear mongering _ starmer a blank cheque and this fear mongering about the supermajority. a landslide _ mongering about the supermajority. a landslide majority in british politics— landslide majority in british politics doesn't make any difference, we don't have super majorities — difference, we don't have super majorities in the way other countries do, so it is a meaningless threat~ _ countries do, so it is a meaningless threat~ but— countries do, so it is a meaningless threat. but the reform surge is interesting from a conservative perspective, but this talk about reform — perspective, but this talk about reform potentially being the opposition now, it's worth remembering the second—largest party, _ remembering the second—largest party, if— remembering the second—largest party, if the conservative support does _ party, if the conservative support does crater in the way we are seeing, — does crater in the way we are seeing, could be the liberal democrats. they could end up with around _ democrats. they could end up with around the — democrats. they could end up with around the same number as the conservatives and reform could get one, possibly two seats. they are not serious — one, possibly two seats. they are not serious in being the opposition in that— not serious in being the opposition in that way — not serious in being the opposition in that way. what they are serious about _ in that way. what they are serious about is— in that way. what they are serious about is trying to move the argument and with— about is trying to move the argument and with the conservative party. george osborne has been talking about this very issue in his podcast. he has been saying that it is a completely logical time for the conservative party to be warning of a super majority. he said it is exactly what they did in 2005. it was very obvious tony blair was going to get a third election victory, so their strategy was to cut him down to size. they were doing that from opposition, having beenin doing that from opposition, having been in opposition for some time. this is the conservative cabinet doing it from government, this is not how they started their campaign. how they started their campaign is we are going to expose the weakness of labour's position and under the relentless focus of our campaign, keir starmer will crumble. that clearly hasn't been happening. that is a nirht clearly hasn't been happening. that is a night al-faraj _ clearly hasn't been happening. that is a night al—faraj factor. one of the big _ is a night al—faraj factor. one of the big arguments _ is a night al—faraj factor. one of the big arguments of— is a night al—faraj factor. one of the big arguments of going i is a night al—faraj factor. one ofj the big arguments of going early is a night al—faraj factor. one of- the big arguments of going early for number— the big arguments of going early for number ten — the big arguments of going early for numberten -- _ the big arguments of going early for number ten —— nigel farah- the big arguments of going early for number ten —— nigel farah edge i number ten —— nigel farah edge factor~ _ number ten —— nigel farah edge factor the — number ten —— nigel farah edge factor. the minute _ number ten —— nigel farah edge factor. the minute that - number ten —— nigel farah edge factor. the minute that nigel. number ten —— nigel farah edge i factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered _ factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered the — factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered the race, _ factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered the race, we _ factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered the race, we have _ factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered the race, we have seen- factor. the minute that nigel crouch entered the race, we have seen a i entered the race, we have seen a relatively— entered the race, we have seen a relatively small— entered the race, we have seen a relatively small uptick— entered the race, we have seen a relatively small uptick in - entered the race, we have seen a relatively small uptick in reforml relatively small uptick in reform vote, _ relatively small uptick in reform vote but — relatively small uptick in reform vote, but that _ relatively small uptick in reform vote, but that translates - relatively small uptick in reform vote, but that translates badly. relatively small uptick in reform i vote, but that translates badly into seats _ vote, but that translates badly into seats the — vote, but that translates badly into seats. the conservatives— vote, but that translates badly into seats. the conservatives have i vote, but that translates badly into seats. the conservatives have a i seats. the conservatives have a disproportionate _ seats. the conservatives have a disproportionate amount - seats. the conservatives have a disproportionate amount of i seats. the conservatives have a i disproportionate amount of marginal seats they— disproportionate amount of marginal seats they are — disproportionate amount of marginal seats they are trying _ disproportionate amount of marginal seats they are trying to _ disproportionate amount of marginal seats they are trying to defend, i disproportionate amount of marginal seats they are trying to defend, so l seats they are trying to defend, so stonehaven. — seats they are trying to defend, so stonehaven, where _ seats they are trying to defend, so stonehaven, where i— seats they are trying to defend, so stonehaven, where i work, - seats they are trying to defend, so stonehaven, where i work, we - seats they are trying to defend, so - stonehaven, where i work, we conduct weekly— stonehaven, where i work, we conduct weekly polls _ stonehaven, where i work, we conduct weekly polls. we — stonehaven, where i work, we conduct weekly polls. we have _ stonehaven, where i work, we conduct weekly polls. we have seen— stonehaven, where i work, we conduct weekly polls. we have seen reform'sl weekly polls. we have seen reform's vote uptick _ weekly polls. we have seen reform's vote uptick about _ weekly polls. we have seen reform's vote uptick about 13, _ weekly polls. we have seen reform's vote uptick about 13, almost - weekly polls. we have seen reform's vote uptick about 13, almost 14. - weekly polls. we have seen reform's vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but. vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that_ vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that has — vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that has done _ vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that has done to _ vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that has done to the _ vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that has done to the tory - vote uptick about 13, almost 14. but what that has done to the tory vote| what that has done to the tory vote is pushed _ what that has done to the tory vote is pushed it— what that has done to the tory vote is pushed it down— what that has done to the tory vote is pushed it down 54 seats. - what that has done to the tory vote is pushed it down 54 seats. you - what that has done to the tory vote is pushed it down 54 seats.- is pushed it down 54 seats. you are a veteran in — is pushed it down 54 seats. you are a veteran in 2017 _ is pushed it down 54 seats. you are a veteran in 2017 when _ is pushed it down 54 seats. you are a veteran in 2017 when we - is pushed it down 54 seats. you are a veteran in 2017 when we did - is pushed it down 54 seats. you are a veteran in 2017 when we did see i is pushed it down 54 seats. you are| a veteran in 2017 when we did see a massive shift in the pulls, 15% it moved, is there any chance of that? it is labour's to lose. it is the same — it is labour's to lose. it is the same sort _ it is labour's to lose. it is the same sort of— it is labour's to lose. it is the same sort of scenario - it is labour's to lose. it is the same sort of scenario in- it is labour's to lose. it is the same sort of scenario in that| same sort of scenario in that theresa _ same sort of scenario in that theresa may's _ same sort of scenario in that theresa may's support - same sort of scenario in that theresa may's support was l same sort of scenario in that - theresa may's support was broad but shattow~ _ theresa may's support was broad but shattow~ 0he — theresa may's support was broad but shallow. one really— theresa may's support was broad but shallow. one really catastrophic- shallow. one really catastrophic error and — shallow. one really catastrophic error ahd it— shallow. one really catastrophic error and it drained _ shallow. one really catastrophic. error and it drained really quickly. uhtess _ error and it drained really quickly. uhtess keir— error and it drained really quickly. unless keir starmer— error and it drained really quickly. unless keir starmer makes - error and it drained really quickly. unless keir starmer makes a - error and it drained really quickly. i unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed _ unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed move. — unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed move, and _ unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed move, and so _ unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed move, and so far— unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed move, and so far he - unless keir starmer makes a wrong footed move, and so far he has- unless keir starmer makes a wrong i footed move, and so far he has been very sure—footed, _ footed move, and so far he has been very sure—footed, i— footed move, and so far he has been very sure—footed, i don't _ footed move, and so far he has been very sure—footed, i don't see - footed move, and so far he has been very sure—footed, i don't see it - very sure—footed, i don't see it happening _ very sure-footed, i don't see it happening-— very sure-footed, i don't see it haueninu, ., ,, , . happening. you speak with experience there. shortly before labour launched its manifesto in manchester yesterday, plaid cymru unveiled their election document in cardiff. i'm joined now from cardiff by plaid cymru's deputy leader, member of the welsh senedd, delyth jewell. thank you so much forjoining us tonight. so, you launched your manifesto. we have just tonight. so, you launched your manifesto. we havejust been tonight. so, you launched your manifesto. we have just been talking about brexit, you have got something to say about that in terms of the single market. your manifesto says it is a failure. where the welsh people wrong about that? thank you for havin: people wrong about that? thank you for having new _ people wrong about that? thank you for having new with _ people wrong about that? thank you for having new with you _ for having new with you this evening. in our manifesto, we are saying wales should be able to demand more than we are getting at the moment. we halfway through the selection, and if it were not for plaid cymru, i doubt wales would get a mention in the campaign. when it comes to brexit, like so many policies, we are putting forward ambitious, progressive policies to help our communities. where is the conviction from the labour party? where is the courage from the labour party? they seem to be chasing what they think public opinion might be rather than trying to lead. it is clear that if people want a strong voice for wales's values and communities in westminster, plaid cymru mps will be the only sure way that wales's turner will get fought. last time it was at the ballot box, an independent wales would have voted for brexit. more than scotland and northern ireland. in voted for brexit. more than scotland and northern ireland.— and northern ireland. in terms... the brexit— and northern ireland. in terms... the brexit vote. _ and northern ireland. in terms... the brexit vote. could _ and northern ireland. in terms... the brexit vote. could you - and northern ireland. in terms... j the brexit vote. could you repeat that? wales _ the brexit vote. could you repeat that? wales voted _ the brexit vote. could you repeat that? wales voted for _ the brexit vote. could you repeat that? wales voted for brexit. - the brexit vote. could you repeat that? wales voted for brexit. if. that? wales voted for brexit. if they were _ that? wales voted for brexit. if they were independent, - that? wales voted for brexit. if they were independent, they i that? wales voted for brexit. if- they were independent, they would have also voted for leaving. opinion olls have have also voted for leaving. opinion polls have shifted _ have also voted for leaving. opinion polls have shifted and _ have also voted for leaving. opinion polls have shifted and brexit - have also voted for leaving. opinion polls have shifted and brexit is - polls have shifted and brexit is doing untold harm to our communities in terms of red tape faced by businesses, and terms of the extra costs people are facing. i think it shows a lack of conviction and courage from the parties that they are not willing to face up to that reality. plaid cymru is fighting to make sure that our economy actually benefits from rejoining the single market and the customs union. it is clear that that is what needs to happen for our economy. ijust clear that that is what needs to happen for our economy. i just wish the labour party would catch up and stop trying to second chance or second—guess what they think people want them to be saying. they should be leading from the front rather than just chasing what they think public opinion might be. you than just chasing what they think public opinion might be.- public opinion might be. you are another non-labour _ public opinion might be. you are another non-labour party - public opinion might be. you are another non-labour party that i public opinion might be. you are j another non-labour party that is another non—labour party that is deploying this argument that labour are going to win, therefore you can vote for us. it seems like something of a capitulation. will i do not think it is capitulation at all. in the first past the post system that we have, which is deeply flawed, we know already who is going to be in number ten. know already who is going to be in numberten. but know already who is going to be in number ten-— number ten. but in terms of what --eole number ten. but in terms of what peeple will— number ten. but in terms of what peeple will be _ number ten. but in terms of what people will be voting _ number ten. but in terms of what people will be voting for - number ten. but in terms of what people will be voting for on - number ten. but in terms of what people will be voting for on the l number ten. but in terms of what i people will be voting for on the 4th ofjuly, they are voting for who their local champion will be, their local voice in westminster. having worked for plaid cymru in westminster, i can attest to the fact that it will be plaid cymru mps who will fight for wales, who will not just vote how the whip tells them to suit the benefits of london. are you giving up even on the prospect of winning in wales, like the snp have done in scotland over the snp have done in scotland over the past couple of elections? in the past couple of elections? in terms of what you're talking about earlier in independence, support for independence has increased dramatically because people can see how much we are mismanaged and discovered by successive westminster governments. plaid cymru has put forward ambitious proposals to change how wales's funded, so that we have... the change how wales's funded, so that we have... a change how wales's funded, so that we have... 1, ., . we have... the barnett formula. the interestin: we have... the barnett formula. the interesting thing _ we have... the barnett formula. the interesting thing about _ we have... the barnett formula. the interesting thing about that - we have... the barnett formula. the interesting thing about that is - we have... the barnett formula. the interesting thing about that is most l interesting thing about that is most independent analysis is that abolishing the barnett formula, it does wales quite well, you would lose £1 billion. are you trying to abolish it if it gives you more money? abolish it if it gives you more mone ? , . , , . money? they are using figures that are 15 years — money? they are using figures that are 15 years out _ money? they are using figures that are 15 years out of _ money? they are using figures that are 15 years out of date. _ money? they are using figures that are 15 years out of date. that - money? they are using figures that are 15 years out of date. that was l are 15 years out of date. that was before covid, our population is ageing more quickly than the rest of the uk. the barnett formula was devised in the 19705, it can be manipulated. one of the best examples of this is hs2. not an inch of track of each history comes within wales, but because of some trick in the treasury, it has been designated as in england and wales project. so we have lost out on £4 billion as a result of this trickery. the labour party have conceded that this is a problem. all parties in the senedd, including the tories and labour, have said this is a problem that we should be getting those billions back. it is only plaid cymru who is fighting to make sure we get that money. plaid cymru i5 sure we get that money. plaid cymru is the only party putting the interests of wales front and centre at the selection. it is what we will continue to do.— at the selection. it is what we will continue to do. thank you very much forjoining- — right, let's change tack and think about how the parties think they will win the election with billions of social media ads in the final days of the campaign. but what they are doing now on tiktok, twitter, instagram is quite instructive about their strategies. let's get a flavour of what is out there. dawn butler and nelson production. come on, 4th ofjuly! # we've got 21 days to go. # if you like let me know, let me out the shadow. # we've got 21 days to go. # appreciate d—day, where did he go? # rishi at d—day, where did he go? # don't let a liar run the show. # like, don't let the liar run the show. guess who's back? back in again. back again. hi, tiktok, sorry to be breaking into your usual politics free feed, but i'm making a big announcement today and i've been told that a lot of you already have some views on it. so first thing, no, i'm not sending everyone off to join the army. some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice i am willing to make. now we all know that too many tweets make you a (buzzer). _ well, something or other. i'm not sure what sure - what to many tiktoks make. only rishi sunak won't put our- hardened economic stability at risk. —— only rishi sunak- won't put our hard—earned economic stability at risk. he restore pride and confidence i in our country and with a cleari plan and bold action, i it will deliver a secure future for you. lam i am wondering what else was out there. there was actual dancing in there. there was actual dancing in the studio on friday night, a rare sight! let's bring in samjeffers of who targets me, about the parties who are targeting you. what are you seeing in your trawl of this adds? i what are you seeing in your trawl of this adds? ~' . , , ., this adds? i think there has been a coule of this adds? i think there has been a couple of phases _ this adds? i think there has been a couple of phases of— this adds? i think there has been a couple of phases of the _ this adds? i think there has been a couple of phases of the campaign i this adds? i think there has been a i couple of phases of the campaign so far, certainly from the conservatives. a5 far, certainly from the conservatives. as you were sitting in your earlier item, i think nigel farage change their advertising quite dramatically. they were trying to recruit reform supporters before he entered the race. when that happened, the whole tone switched. almost the first mention of this idea that if you voted for reform or the liberal democrats, you would be handing laboura the liberal democrats, you would be handing labour a massive majority. this idea that it was essentially conceding the election, that first popped up on a facebook ad. i think we have basically had to make phases from them. we have also seen the labour party is spending a large sum of money. they have spent a lot of money on youtube, and facebook. they have had a much more organised and orchestrated campaign than the conservatives seem to have had. it has been a pretty busy first three weeks of the campaign. can has been a pretty busy first three weeks of the campaign.— weeks of the campaign. can you discern something _ weeks of the campaign. can you discern something a _ weeks of the campaign. can you discern something a bit - weeks of the campaign. can you discern something a bit more i discern something a bit more detailed about the strategies here? from the amount, from the timing, from where they are targeting the ads? i from where they are targeting the ads? . ~ . , ., , ads? i mean, i think what you see... even tonight. — ads? i mean, i think what you see... even tonight, labour— ads? i mean, i think what you see... even tonight, labour launched - ads? i mean, i think what you see... even tonight, labour launched two i even tonight, labour launched two new facebook ads. if you watch them quite carefully, they seem directed at a very similar look and feel, but almost directed at different audiences. one of them talks about workers' rights, ending zero—hours contracts, feels very directed at that because labour support. the other version, which uses the same music, lots of the same shots, it is more focused on economic stability, growth, new manufacturing. it is this wider sort of swing voter audience. they can be quite subtle and how they do this stuff to reach different parts of the electorate. labour got in before the change in the eligibility for funding, didn't they? they seem to be more organised in terms of their social media ads. the labour party launched the campaign very quickly. the tories had control of the timetable, but labour were very well drilled for the start of it. they had hundreds, i think, youtube ads ready to go for the candidate videos straight off the candidate videos straight off the bat at the beginning of the campaign. they spent a lot of money on youtube very quickly. lots of their candidates had adverts ready to go. labour was outspending... i think so far, labour have outspent the conservatives tend to one on youtube. a lot of that spending has been on these candidate ads. adore youtube. a lot of that spending has been on these candidate ads. are you seeinu an been on these candidate ads. are you seeing any pattern — been on these candidate ads. are you seeing any pattern in the _ been on these candidate ads. are you seeing any pattern in the geography? j seeing any pattern in the geography? have they changed the targets? can you discern anything from that data? the geography has not really emerge so far, these from the two main parties. lots of the conservative ads are very much nationwide that we can see so far. particularly on youtube, they are essentially targeting all of england and wales. labour is more geographically focused, but it hasn't really settled down into a pattern of exactly which seats. one of the theories from looking at the data is that the number of the seats they are targeting has slightly expanded in the last couple of weeks, which suggest some confidence on their part. when we look down the list of seats in which money is being spent, we essentially see they are all labour seats. we looked at the top 100 seats that we looked at in terms of spending, labour was the top spending in about 98 of them. they are really pushing much harder than the conservatives all over the country. the conservatives all over the count . ., . .~ the conservatives all over the count . ., . . country. you are making an interesting _ country. you are making an interesting point _ country. you are making an interesting point which - country. you are making an interesting point which we i country. you are making an - interesting point which we cannot get into now about some of the antics on the campaign trail. that really works on social media because it get you free engagement without having to pay for it, which is an important point. thank you very much. we will be following some of your data. let's spend that back at the panel. kirsty, have you seen any of these targeted ads? i the panel. kirsty, have you seen any of these targeted ads?— of these targeted ads? i have seen it a few. weirdly, _ of these targeted ads? i have seen it a few. weirdly, i _ of these targeted ads? i have seen it a few. weirdly, i am _ of these targeted ads? i have seen it a few. weirdly, i am getting - of these targeted ads? i have seen| it a few. weirdly, i am getting geo- it a few. weirdly, i am getting geo— targeted _ it a few. weirdly, i am getting geo— targeted almost _ it a few. weirdly, i am getting geo— targeted almost immediately - it a few. weirdly, i am getting geo— targeted almost immediately by - it a few. weirdly, i am getting geo— targeted almost immediately by my labour— targeted almost immediately by my labour candidate, _ targeted almost immediately by my labour candidate, he _ targeted almost immediately by my labour candidate, he isn't- targeted almost immediately by my labour candidate, he isn't my- targeted almost immediately by my. labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, _ labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, bv— labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, by the _ labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, by the way, _ labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, by the way, i— labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, by the way, i am - labour candidate, he isn't my labour candidate, by the way, i am one - candidate, by the way, i am one street— candidate, by the way, i am one street over— candidate, by the way, i am one street over from _ candidate, by the way, i am one street over from where - candidate, by the way, i am one street over from where they- candidate, by the way, i am one i street over from where they think the constituency— street over from where they think the constituency is. _ street over from where they think the constituency is. what- street over from where they think the constituency is. what is- the constituency is. what is interesting _ the constituency is. what is interesting i— the constituency is. what is interesting i cannot- the constituency is. what is interesting i cannot move l the constituency is. what isi interesting i cannot move on the constituency is. what is- interesting i cannot move on my timetine — interesting i cannot move on my timeline and _ interesting i cannot move on my timeline and instagram - interesting i cannot move on my timeline and instagram with- interesting i cannot move on my timeline and instagram with out| timeline and instagram with out becky— timeline and instagram with out becky cooper _ timeline and instagram with out becky cooper popping _ timeline and instagram with out becky cooper popping up. - timeline and instagram with out becky cooper popping up. i- timeline and instagram with out| becky cooper popping up. i have timeline and instagram with out- becky cooper popping up. i have had one leaflet _ becky cooper popping up. i have had one leaflet from _ becky cooper popping up. i have had one leaflet from the _ becky cooper popping up. i have had one leaflet from the conservatives . one leaflet from the conservatives through _ one leaflet from the conservatives through my — one leaflet from the conservatives through my door~ _ one leaflet from the conservatives through my door. the _ one leaflet from the conservatives through my door. the big - one leaflet from the conservatives through my door. the big reason. one leaflet from the conservatives i through my door. the big reason for this is— through my door. the big reason for this is monev — through my door. the big reason for this is money. the _ through my door. the big reason for this is money. the donors— through my door. the big reason for this is money. the donors have - through my door. the big reason fori this is money. the donors have dried up this is money. the donors have dried up for— this is money. the donors have dried up for the _ this is money. the donors have dried up for the conservatives. _ this is money. the donors have dried up for the conservatives. whilst - up for the conservatives. whilst the rutes— up for the conservatives. whilst the rules changed — up for the conservatives. whilst the rules changed and _ up for the conservatives. whilst the rules changed and you _ up for the conservatives. whilst the rules changed and you can - up for the conservatives. whilst the rules changed and you can spend i up for the conservatives. whilst the i rules changed and you can spend more money— rules changed and you can spend more money on _ rules changed and you can spend more money on social— rules changed and you can spend more money on social media _ rules changed and you can spend more money on social media advertising, . money on social media advertising, actuativm — money on social media advertising, actuativm i— money on social media advertising, actuativm ido— money on social media advertising, actually... i do not— money on social media advertising, actually... i do not know— money on social media advertising, actually... i do not know if you - actually... i do not know if you remember— actually... i do not know if you rememberabout_ actually... i do not know if you rememberabout the— actually... i do not know if you remember about the smaller. actually... i do not know if you - remember about the smaller parties arguing _ remember about the smaller parties arguing that — remember about the smaller parties arguing that it— remember about the smaller parties arguing that it disproportionately- arguing that it disproportionately favours— arguing that it disproportionately favours labour— arguing that it disproportionately favours labour and _ favours labour and the conservatives. - favours labour and the conservatives. it - favours labour and the conservatives. it has i favours labour and the - conservatives. it has turned out favours labour and the _ conservatives. it has turned out it only favours — conservatives. it has turned out it only favours labour _ conservatives. it has turned out it only favours labour because - conservatives. it has turned out it only favours labour because the i only favours labour because the donors— only favours labour because the donors have _ only favours labour because the donors have dried _ only favours labour because the donors have dried up. _ only favours labour because the donors have dried up. the - only favours labour because the| donors have dried up. the tories only favours labour because the - donors have dried up. the tories do not have _ donors have dried up. the tories do not have the — donors have dried up. the tories do not have the money— donors have dried up. the tories do not have the money to _ donors have dried up. the tories do not have the money to support - donors have dried up. the tories do. not have the money to support social media _ not have the money to support social media targeting _ not have the money to support social media targeting. the— not have the money to support social media targeting-— media targeting. the campaign is -h sicall media targeting. the campaign is physically constrained? _ media targeting. the campaign is physically constrained? i - media targeting. the campaign is physically constrained? i have - media targeting. the campaign is| physically constrained? i have had ministers complained _ physically constrained? i have had ministers complained to _ physically constrained? i have had ministers complained to me - physically constrained? i have had ministers complained to me that i ministers complained to me that rishi _ ministers complained to me that rishi sunak— ministers complained to me that rishi sunak supported _ ministers complained to me that rishi sunak supported the - ministers complained to me thati rishi sunak supported the change ministers complained to me that- rishi sunak supported the change in the spending — rishi sunak supported the change in the spending rules— rishi sunak supported the change in the spending rules to _ rishi sunak supported the change in the spending rules to allow - rishi sunak supported the change in the spending rules to allow for - rishi sunak supported the change in| the spending rules to allow for more social media — the spending rules to allow for more social media spending, _ the spending rules to allow for more social media spending, and - the spending rules to allow for more social media spending, and actuallyi social media spending, and actually know— social media spending, and actually know it _ social media spending, and actually know it is _ social media spending, and actually know it is hitting _ social media spending, and actually know it is hitting them _ social media spending, and actually know it is hitting them really- social media spending, and actually know it is hitting them really hard i know it is hitting them really hard because _ know it is hitting them really hard because labour— know it is hitting them really hard because labour are _ know it is hitting them really hard because labour are massively- because labour are massively outspending _ because labour are massively outspending them _ because labour are massively outspending them on - because labour are massively outspending them on social. because labour are massively- outspending them on social media. rachel, _ outspending them on social media. rachel, in— outspending them on social media. rachel, in terms _ outspending them on social media. rachel, in terms of— outspending them on social media. rachel, in terms of the _ outspending them on social media. rachel, in terms of the geographyi outspending them on social media. i rachel, in terms of the geography of where you target the ads, are we seeing this physically? has there been a shift in the geography of labour is targeting in this campaign?— labour is targeting in this camaiun? ., , labour is targeting in this camaiun? ., . campaign? one of the ways that labour campaign? one of the ways that labour has _ campaign? one of the ways that labour has managed _ campaign? one of the ways that labour has managed to - campaign? one of the ways that labour has managed to get - campaign? one of the ways that labour has managed to get the l labour has managed to get the geographic advantage from the get go as they— geographic advantage from the get go as they had their candidates selected beforehand. their candidates had their videos ready, for the _ candidates had their videos ready, for the most part, before. candidates had their videos ready, forthe most part, before. even though— forthe most part, before. even though the timing of the election was a _ though the timing of the election was a surprise and that was an advantage _ was a surprise and that was an advantage that the government had in deciding _ advantage that the government had in deciding when they were going to call the _ deciding when they were going to call the election, does seem that it was the _ call the election, does seem that it was the conservatives who were caught _ was the conservatives who were caught off guard. labour candidates came _ caught off guard. labour candidates came out— caught off guard. labour candidates came out with their videos within hours _ came out with their videos within hours of— came out with their videos within hours of that announcement being made _ hours of that announcement being made keir— hours of that announcement being made. keir starmer came out with his campaign _ made. keir starmer came out with his campaign video before... almost white _ campaign video before... almost white rishi — campaign video before... almost while rishi sunak was still

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