overtaxed, interesting to hear penny mordaunt repeat the £2000 burger that we spent a lot of time dissecting the credibility of —— 2000 figure. interesting to see penny mordaunt went there again. secondly, an interesting angry exchange between penny mordaunt and angela rayner on defence. i thought that was telling, penny mordaunt keen to talk about the nuclear deterrence. another thing which stood out is stephen flynn, the snp leader, the applause he got, the first to get rounds of applause. an interesting topic that got applause from the audience. specially selected to represent different voters, a carefully made of audience there. interestingly on brexit, he talked about the damage the economy, talked about the damage the economy, talked about the damage the economy, talked about an end to the demonisation of migration, which got around of applause and free tuition fees in scotland. i think the strategies, it became a debate between labour and the tories, and the smaller party strategy was to pick holes in both of their arguments. an interesting dynamic, but really well and well presented. let's go some of the highlights, starting with out debate on defence in the armed forces and rishi sunak�*s early departure from the d—day commemorations. it was nigel farage who raised it first. let's listen to him and the response from penny mordaunt.— listen to him and the response from penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with — penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the _ penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the average _ penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the average age - penny mordaunt. respect our veterans and those with the average age of- and those with the average age of 100 deserted by the prime minister in normandy which was a complete and utter disgrace and shows us we have a very— utter disgrace and shows us we have a very own _ utter disgrace and shows us we have a very own patriotic prime minister. it was _ a very own patriotic prime minister. it was dreadful. penny mordaunt, response about, leaving before the end of the day. response about, leaving before the end of the day-— response about, leaving before the end of the day. what happened was comletel end of the day. what happened was completely wrong — end of the day. what happened was completely wrong and _ end of the day. what happened was completely wrong and the - end of the day. what happened was completely wrong and the prime . completely wrong and the prime minister— completely wrong and the prime minister has _ completely wrong and the prime minister has rightly— completely wrong and the prime minister has rightly apologise, l minister has rightly apologise, apologise _ minister has rightly apologise, apologise to _ minister has rightly apologise, apologise to veterans, - minister has rightly apologise, apologise to veterans, but - minister has rightly apologise, | apologise to veterans, but also minister has rightly apologise, . apologise to veterans, but also to all others — apologise to veterans, but also to all others because _ apologise to veterans, but also to all others because he _ apologise to veterans, but also to all others because he was- all others because he was representing _ all others because he was representing all— all others because he was representing all of- all others because he was representing all of us. - all others because he was| representing all of us. i'm all others because he was- representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth. _ representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've _ representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've been - representing all of us. i'm from portsmouth, i've been defence| portsmouth, i've been defence secretary. _ portsmouth, i've been defence secretary. and _ portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my— portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my wish - portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my wish at - portsmouth, i've been defence secretary, and my wish at the i portsmouth, i've been defence i secretary, and my wish at the end portsmouth, i've been defence - secretary, and my wish at the end of this week_ secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is — secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all _ secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all our _ secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all our veterans - secretary, and my wish at the end of this week is all our veterans feel - this week is all our veterans feel completely— this week is all our veterans feel completely treasured. _ this week is all our veterans feel completely treasured. i'm - this week is all our veterans feell completely treasured. i'm hoping this week is all our veterans feel. completely treasured. i'm hoping to make _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince you _ completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince you of— completely treasured. i'm hoping to make to convince you of some - completely treasured. i'm hoping tol make to convince you of some things that are _ make to convince you of some things that are important _ make to convince you of some things that are important to _ make to convince you of some things that are important to them, - make to convince you of some things that are important to them, their. that are important to them, their legacy. _ that are important to them, their legacy. and — that are important to them, their legacy. and i— that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't _ that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do - that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do that- that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do that if. that are important to them, their legacy, and i couldn't do that if ii legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't _ legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight _ legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with _ legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you - legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you on - legacy, and i couldn't do that if i wasn't straight with you on thati wasn't straight with you on that issue — wasn't straight with you on that issue. ~ ., ,, wasn't straight with you on that issue. ~ ., i. ., wasn't straight with you on that issue. ~ ., ., , issue. would you have left d-day earl ? i issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't— issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go _ issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to _ issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to d-day. - issue. would you have left d-day early? i didn't go to d-day. whati early? i didn't go to d-day. what ha--ened early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was — early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was very _ early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was very wrong, - early? i didn't go to d-day. what happened was very wrong, the i early? i didn't go to d-day. what - happened was very wrong, the prime minister— happened was very wrong, the prime minister has — happened was very wrong, the prime minister has apologised _ happened was very wrong, the prime minister has apologised for _ happened was very wrong, the prime minister has apologised for that. - minister has apologised for that. let's _ minister has apologised for that. let's get — minister has apologised for that. let's get some _ minister has apologised for that. let's get some response - minister has apologised for that. let's get some response to - minister has apologised for that. let's get some response to it. i minister has apologised for that. . let's get some response to it. laura is with me. penny mordaunt said it was very wrong of the prime minister not to be there yesterday. has he let you down? it’s not to be there yesterday. has he let you down?— not to be there yesterday. has he let ou down? �*, , ., ., let you down? it's been a tough day, i think let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi — let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak_ let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak has _ let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak has been - let you down? it's been a tough day, i think rishi sunak has been clear . i think rishi sunak has been clear he made a mistake. i respect about him, he fronts up things. it was a big mistake. ithink him, he fronts up things. it was a big mistake. i think penny was clear that what is important is our record on veterans, we are proud as a country that they have provided and we have tried to rally that as much as we can. i we have tried to rally that as much as we can-— we have tried to rally that as much as we can. ., , ., as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of — as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of the _ as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of the areas, _ as we can. i looked at the polls and it is one of the areas, defence, - it is one of the areas, defence, where you lead labour. the prime minister has driven, pardon the pun, a tank through it. you set out a policy on armed services, you had a prime minister who said he couldn't wait for the afternoon, i will go home for an interview with itv. taste home for an interview with itv. we talked home for an interview with itv. - talked about defence and it was illuminating. the most important thing set aside was what penny said to angela, you've lost all credibility on the nuclear deterrent because you have said you don't support it. the nuclear deterrent is fundamental to our security. if we are talking about defence, what is really important, what we know is the labour party have undermined it. it is vital. you are chief said of the treasury. you are trying to put 30,000 young people into the armed forces. we are at 70 —— 72,000, the lowest before the napoleonic wars. money has gone up in terms of how much we have put on in real terms. what are we saying is we will put 2.5% in two defence by 2030. labour haven't committed, labour they would do it. it isn't clear how it is being funded. i'm sure they were clarified. it's a big dividing line, a clear choice at this election. in terms of defence and spending, and people at home need to think about it. ~ ., people at home need to think about it. ~ . ., , ., people at home need to think about it. what would you say to yourself servant in the _ it. what would you say to yourself servant in the treasury _ it. what would you say to yourself servant in the treasury this - it. what would you say to yourself servant in the treasury this weekl servant in the treasury this week who you effectively have thrown under a bus? they are not independent, are they? ida. under a bus? they are not independent, are they? no, no. it is a loni independent, are they? no, no. it is a long established _ independent, are they? no, no. it is a long established process _ independent, are they? no, no. it is a long established process used - a long established process used frequently by opposition parties, going back to the 19805. there are 27 co5ting5 in the paper, 21 are done by the treasury civil servants, we have a couple where we have taken labour's claim5. experts say the energy plan will cost more money. we took labour�*s figures. we have put them together, it is right the civil servants aren't involved in how we present a paper. the costings involved are from the treasury. it was clear that was how it was drawn up. was clear that was how it was drawn u . _ ., , , ., was clear that was how it was drawn u n . ., , , ., ., , was clear that was how it was drawn up. fraser nelson has done the same thin for up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the — up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. _ up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. he _ up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. he said - up. fraser nelson has done the same thing for the spectator. he said it - thing for the spectator. he said it would be 3000.— thing for the spectator. he said it would be 3000. what is important is that the selection, _ would be 3000. what is important is that the selection, we've _ would be 3000. what is important is that the selection, we've got to - that the selection, we've got to have a clear choice about policies and how they are funded. what the labour party are talking about process rather than what they are putting forward. it is legitimate to state you will raise taxes in order to do more breakfast clubs. that is an argument you could have. but they are trying to say they would do these policies are not pay for them. it's not ok. the way the government works is we have to show how things are paid for, the autumn statement and budgets. and we have been at the whole way. what we have been clear in where we've made commitments now, about how we fund them. thea;r in where we've made commitments now, about how we fund them.— about how we fund them. they say you haven't been — about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, _ about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and _ about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and that _ about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and that you - about how we fund them. they say you haven't been clear, and that you can i haven't been clear, and that you can either cut public services or you can put taxes up. you won't find the growth in the short—term in order to do what you both are saying. growth in the short-term in order to do what you both are saying.- do what you both are saying. that's not about the _ do what you both are saying. that's not about the costing _ do what you both are saying. that's not about the costing of _ do what you both are saying. that's not about the costing of individual i not about the costing of individual policies, it's about the amount not being enough. on that, the amount of money we will spend will be higher in real terms by the end of next parliament. by about £80 billion. real terms spending will go up, we've been clear about it. haifa real terms spending will go up, we've been clear about it. how can ou have we've been clear about it. how can you have a — we've been clear about it. how can you have a debate _ we've been clear about it. how can you have a debate about _ we've been clear about it. how can you have a debate about taxation l we've been clear about it. how can i you have a debate about taxation and put all this on labour when you are sitting on top of the highest tax hike in 70 years?— sitting on top of the highest tax hike in 70 ears? ~ �* ., ., ., ~ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. _ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we _ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we had _ hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we had to - hike in 70 years? we've had to make difficult decisions. we had to spend i difficult decisions. we had to spend a lot of money on covid and had the energy price spikes because of the war in ukraine. we had to make difficult decisions. everybody understands it. we have carefully, we are bringing the tax burden down. the national insurance cuts, worth £900 on average, a direction we would go in and further work. that is what you set out from us. in contrast to the £2000 the labour party will put on every family if they follow through. they may say they follow through. they may say they won't do the policies, but they help to have the conversations. you can't let them say it's a process. either they do the policies or down. i look forward to that. did penny mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. _ mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. she _ mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. she did - mordaunt look like a leader? she was fantastic, magnificent. she did a - fantastic, magnificent. she did a brilliant job. _ fantastic, magnificent. she did a brilliant job. more _ fantastic, magnificent. she did a brilliant job. more prime - fantastic, magnificent. she did a | brilliant job. more prime minister brilliantjob. more prime minister real? brilliant “ob. more prime minister real? ., �* , brilliant “ob. more prime minister real? . �* , ., , ., real? that's not true. penny did an amazin: real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job. _ real? that's not true. penny did an amazingjob. i— real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job, i was _ real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job, i was very _ real? that's not true. penny did an amazing job, i was very proud. - amazing job, i was very proud. laura, thank you. let's focus on it while we invite labour into it for a response. we will focus on taxation, between labour and conservatives, most of it. ., ., between labour and conservatives, most of it. . ., ., . . between labour and conservatives, mostofit. . . . ., most of it. have a watch. we have not to most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut — most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut people's _ most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut people's taxes - most of it. have a watch. we have got to cut people's taxes and - got to cut people's taxes and alleviate burdens on business. angela rayner and the labour party, keir starmer confirmed that, they will put up your taxes by £2000. that is a lie. your government... the record level in 70 years. taste the record level in 70 years. we have been _ the record level in 70 years. - have been cutting taxes, we will continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt. you — continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are _ continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are using _ continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are using a _ continue to cut taxes. £2000. penny mordaunt, you are using a figure - mordaunt, you are using a figure which has been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog. who; which has been criticised by the uk statistics watchdog.— statistics watchdog. why don't you stand by your _ statistics watchdog. why don't you stand by your record? _ statistics watchdog. why don't you stand by your record? record - statistics watchdog. why don't you | stand by your record? record levels of taxes _ stand by your record? record levels of taxes on — stand by your record? record levels of taxes on working people. 26 separate — of taxes on working people. 26 separate tax hikes in the last parliament. 12 new taxes... that is rubbish _ parliament. 12 new taxes... that is rubbish we — parliament. 12 new taxes... that is rubbish. we can guarantee we will not raise _ rubbish. we can guarantee we will not raise taxes for working people. £2000 _ not raise taxes for working people. £2000 per— not raise taxes for working people. £2000 per working household. which policies will you take out of your manifesto? it policies will you take out of your manifesto?— policies will you take out of your manifesto? , ., . ., manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear— manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear from _ manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear from the - manifesto? it is timethat micro it is time to hear from the others. l is time to hear from the others. angela rayner. that was terribly dignified. not very, was it? and so it went on. jonathan reynolds is with me. maybe you could respond to some of what we heard from laura trott, who is returning to return to the 2000 figure. she said you need to be clear where it is coming from. can you question it's a lie, it has been established to be alive. they've got to explain why they are lying, but it is a lie