He drinks tea all day, apparently lots and lots of tea and leaves the bag in. Oh, wow. So its industrial strength. Keir starmer apparently drinks coffee and then maybe a bit of tea later on in the day. Isnt a snacker, though. Apparently no sweet tooth, just the occasional bag of crisps. So what did they eat in the height of it all . In the middle of the day . I mean, obviously, these people eat something, maybe anything they can get. I mean, keir starmer admitted recently, actually, even though hes a vegetarian, hed had a box of chicken at some point at the end of a long day. Well, whatever theyre eating, we were wrong on this cast, this podcast, but the date i was told to go long, you had various dates, you had a close race. You were the closest. Well, thats kind of you to say. I mean, about a month ago. Thats right. I did think or we reported that there was a possibility that they would call and go this summer. But after the local election results, which were very bad for the tories, i had thought, as most people in westminster did, that why would they go, now, because it looked like it would be so terrible. And ive got to say, lots of seats think its absolutely crackers to go now given that the tories are 20 points behind. But here we are. There we go. This episode of newscast. Hello. Its laura in the studio. Paddy in the studio, too. And so this has been, i think, for rishi sunak, it is fair to say, a not good getting out of the tracks. And i think hes chucked away what should be a first mover advantage. Hes the one who knew when it was coming and actually not just the rain and Downing Street, but thereve been some sort of gaffes on the road, pictures going wrong, things like imposing at the titanic in belfast. Do you do that if it looks like things are going badly . No, you really dont. Its really that takes me back to theresa may with the letters falling off at the conference. Oh, dear. In the sense that its events and which we should all learn to love about Election Campaigns as events. Heres another version if id been running it. Strangely enough, they didnt ask. Its raining very hard. So you go inside, you go inside, you go into the room, which the public paid millions for, from which, as chancellor, i wrote cheques to keep your family and businesses going in this very room. Id have done it in there. Yeah. I mean, several people around and about the Westminster Village have suggested to me why on earth did they not use the £2 million media suite where rishi sunak has given many of announcements where he could have been nice and warm and dry . The number ten answer to that is, well, its the done thing to go and stand in the streets. Except there was the other alternative, which you could have done what liz truss did, which was drive around for 20 minutes while youre waiting for the rain to stop. But it definitely got things off to almost an unbelievable start. And there are people closely involved who looked at it and thought, oh dear, so youve really got timing still questionable and style very questionable. I was expecting someone to start throwing fish heads at him. It looked like a monty python sketch at one point. And the other thing, i mean, i know this was your home for a long time standing in Downing Street, but its a point of public protest. Now, weve spoken about this before. If its not the bbc with a helicopter drowning everything out, its that man with the speaker playing the song from � 97. And youre right. So the rain was not the only thing. It was also that there was an extremely loud, a massively massively loud speaker playing the new labour anthem. Things can only get better. Things can only get wetter was the joke within about 30 seconds. So it was not a good launch. And that sort of power and authority that Downing Street is meant to confer upon you as the Prime Minister actually just didnt work at all. And you end up now on day three orfour or wherever we are with rishi sunak making jokes with veterans this morning about, oh, well, at least he didnt catch pneumonia when he was there. What i think is actually more serious, despite the sort of gaffes campaigns are, long gaffes happen. Theres no reason why they cant sort of shake out of that problem just by Running Events more tightly than they have been and not doing things like letting him pose in front of the exit sign. Dont do that. What i think is more serious actually is the continuing level of departure from the conservative benches, including news that we broke last night of michael gove. Huge political heavyweight. Love or loathe him, very significant figure in the conservative party who announced that hes standing down. And would you confess, as someone who follows michael gove� s career from the start, really when he was elected. I dont know what youre going to ask me. Well, would you confess that you were surprised . Because i was surprised. And im not a political boffin, but ijust thought hes going to do the election and then hes going to go. He was always on my maybe list because the conservatives know the lib dems are breathing down their neck. Can i ask it another way then . Yes. Its the fact that it came out at seven on friday. Thats like a kind of key weekend news agenda time. Thats what took me most by surprise. Well, it was it wasnt necessarily planned exactly like that. I got a tip about it at about 5. 30 and then events unfolded. So he was pushed. No, thats not what im saying. These things dont necessarily always happen in precisely the way that somebody would have planned. But somebody as canny as michael gove, also, who has been a journalist for a long time, knows exactly what impact him announcing his departure would have on a friday night after a couple of very bumpy first days for rishi sunak. And whats also significant i think, is he only made the decision, as i understand it, in the last 36 hours before the announcement. In other words, he only made the decision after the not ideal launch of the General Election. And that, of course, makes you wonder, did he take a look at how this was unfolding and think, i dont want part of this and that and that sentence, i dont want part of this could apply to theresa may. Andrea leadsom. Kwasi kwarteng. Matt hancock. Sir charles walker, endless amounts of them, but Government Ministers who have to answer about what it means for all these people to leave at the same time, which is now a larger number than it was conservatives leaving in 1997, which of course, was an augur of what came next. They say, look, people in their 60s do retire. 15 years michael gove� s had in government is a long time. Thats very true. That is absolutely true. And michael gove though is still in his fifties, so i would have to point that out where else im sure friends dont suggest that hes already a sexagenarian. Well, i dont think thats the right word. Lets leave the word in. But i think youre right. I mean, look, he was elected as an mp in 2005. Hes been in front line politics for a very long time. Many of the people who are standing down, likejohn redwood, for example, but greg clarke, theres another person who had lots of different cabinetjobs, theresa may, lots of differentjobs. There are people whove been around for a long time who are going this time and also quite a few on the Labour Benches as well. When i think about Harriet Harman or margaret hodge, however, whether it is fair or not, it absolutely adds to the impression that this election is hurtling towards a very big generational change, and that is the impression that all of these departures give out. And i dont think theyre done yet because there will be a fight and i dont think theyre done yet. Because there will be a fight for the conservative party, even if they kept a large number of seats, which they are happy with. Theres going to be a fight for which conservative party it is because a lot of these people who are leaving were instrumental in leading the Brexit Charge and in leading the fight within the conservative party against theresa may, whos also leaving. So the conservative party is going to be changed by this election and by these departures more than in the last five. Yeah, i think thats absolutely right. And whatever the end result and we should say, look, campaigns change things. Who knows . What would now seem like an incredibly unlikely miracle could yet come to pass and they might somehow manage to hang on. Even that is not what anybody who is in the conservative party at the moment believes will happen. But even if that were to happen and they end up with rishi sunak still in charge, the party that he runs is going to be a very, very different beast. The assumption, of course, at the moment is that even managing to hold labour orfor a majority and ending up in a Hung Parliament would be one. Cabinet minister described that to me as the the most realistic thing they could achieve, like the best realistic case scenario, which even that they said would be a heroic outcome. And the assumption we can say to all newscasters right now at the beginning of all of this is that rishi sunak is on his way out and there will be a fight for a new Conservative Leader on the other side of this election. But but, you know, i always say this politics is very unpredictable. On both sides of the political divide, there is an absolute knowledge and genuine belief that voters in this country are now a very volatile group of people. And just as there are millions of people who havent yet made up their minds, there are millions of people who might have told pollsters in the last few months that theyve made up their minds, but they may yet change them. So theres this Constant Churning around of voters, and both camps are very, very well aware of that. And of course, at the locals, more people voted for small parties than wed been expecting. So thats how unpredictable it is. Strix tonight has put on discord, with all these mp standing down, how much will it affect the demographics of the parties . Well, in the conservative case, a lot. In the snp case we dont know because only nine of them said theyre going and in labours sort of 20. But youve got a couple of key bellwethers, havent you . Well, in the conservative case, a lot. In the snp case we dont know because only nine of them said theyre going and in labours sort of 20. But youve got a couple of key bellwethers, havent you . Diane abbott is a question i think everyone will be asking about what happens in the inquiry and whether she keeps the whip and then stands down of her own accord. Thats right. I mean, there have been suggestions as we record at 2 20 on saturday that this might be the long Running Dispute over whether or not she can be allowed back to sit as a labour mp. But she cant sit as a labour mp any more because parliament has been dissolved before the election. But would she get the whip back, as its known, before its likely that she says she was stand down. There was a suggestion this morning that could be resolved, perhaps even today, but we dont have any clarity on that yet. But as i understand it, and its been reported in other places now, essentially she wants to be allowed back in, given the dignity of being restored to her place as a labour mp. But then with that she would be likely to stand down, which of course in labour circles opens up what is potentially a really plum labour seat. And there would be a stampede of activists trying to get their hands on this one. So we say there are some big names still to come. And do you expect more tories to go . I think there will be. I mean, i think there is another ten days or maybe even two weeks before nominations have to close. And there is still, this was also somebody said to me rather archly yesterday, which is one of the things ive written about this afternoon, one of the suggestions were Campaign Sunak is not yet running at full throttle, shall we say, and is perhaps misfiring, is that some of the staffers involved are said to be partly distracted by a hunt for their own seats in parliament. I think youll see big names go at the ballot box. This is what we should love about politics. Not that people go, but the public speak and the public are allowed to come to their mind and big names are humbled. Thats what happens. And the most likely candidate for that isjeremy hunt. Wow. Possibly also grant shapps, welwyn hatfield. Likely alex chalk. Less well known. But the justice secretary, its a very senior big job. Hes in the south west and cheltenham very, very much at risk from the lib dems. So yeah, butjeremy hunt, his i think we wont see him very much on the Campaign Trail because hes fighting so hard for his seat. But yeah, jeremy hunt, grant shapps is probably at risk as well. So there are some people who are very well known who are definitely at risk this time round. Its interesting because we must move on to talk about labour and what the candidates have been doing today. But i remember as well the speculation during the year being Thatjeremy Hunt would not stand if the election went long. So because its important sometimes, i think for us to say what was said that was wrong, many bright political people said jeremy hunt wont stand, jeremy hunt wont be standing. And he always said, i will stand. He always said i care about my constituency and i care about my seat. And he put lots of his own money into fighting his seat recently. And well see, because incumbency, as its known, the sort of personal power, the personal connection that mps have with their constituents is also something that could be a very potent and very powerful. And of course, thats another problem for the tories, because, say, if incumbency gives you an extra kind of two or 3 at the ballot box, some Number Crunchers would suggest if all these swathes of mp are going, then that incumbency, that connection with the local mp also disappears and a new candidate turning up saying, hi, im your new conservative candidate. Look at how great things have been going in this campaign. Thats really, really tough. But there are things that are tough for labour as well. And ive got the document here because in a six week campaign, actually, what youre going to do for the country is the point of it. Now, events are still fascinating. You know, the rain, the titanic, the exit signs on the plane. And keir starmer will have his moments like that as well. What will happen in the euros . Yes, exactly. And this is labours plan to make work pay at the same time as keir starmer has said that he wants to lower the voting age to to include 16 and i7 year olds. So those are the two big things that have happened in labour world today. So lets just take them in turn. So this labours plan to make work pay point one that is a rebrand until very recently it was called the new dealfor working people. Now if you are a newscaster or an ordinary voter wondering what things mean, new deal for working people, what does that sound like . Well, it sounds like roosevelt. You really are going back. Well, it sounds, i suppose in generically it sounds like working people are going to get more rights. Its going to be a kind of benefit Factory Thing that workers are going to benefit. Then if you think what does labours plan to make work pay, what does that sound like . Well, i thought thats boring conservative language. I thought thats what the conservatives were saying. Voila, you got it. Its exactly thats the difference. So the name change in and of itself is a significant thing here. And behind the scenes, theres been a big, big argument going on while paddys doing some origami with it. Basically, this is it could have been the tory plan to make work. It could have been the tory plan. And the substance of it is very different. But yeah, the rebranding is, is really important. And theres been an almighty argument going on between the unions and labour over watering down or not watering down some of these plans. And that argument is not done. I know this in meetings going on today. I know there were some meetings yesterday and theres been a Battle Going Backwards and forwards over whether or not labour can do the full fat version of its plans, which we understand that keir starmer is a bit nervous about. And there are some people in the Business Community who are nervous about the full fat version of the plans. And then some, particularly sharon graham, whos the prominent leader of the unite union, hugely powerful affiliate of the labour party. While paddy goes through the sheaf of paper who said today that the plan is like swiss cheese and its full of holes. So its going to be really interesting to see where that ends up and if indeed. All of the unions are actually willing to agree to the plan as it stands and it would be difficult for keir starmer not to have the support of a couple of his big unions right at the beginning of this campaign. Ifound it interesting reading it before coming to meet you, that it pins down some of the successes that the last Labour Government introduced. And when i say successes, im quoting from this document that said we introduced key measures on employment and fair working practices. We introduced the National Minimum wage. They did. So its intriguing for me to see that theyre trying to give us bookends, there have been 14 years of conservative governments, conservative led governments, and this, which is a key announcement, albeit one that needs to needs further News Analysis in which theyre trying to remind voters this is the party that also did this. And so they are harking back and you hear that also when labour and you hear that also when labour politicians like where streeting, the Shadow Health secretary, when they talk about the nhs or other issues too, they say, look at what happened the last time we were in charge. The nhs got better. Look at the last time we were in charge. Look at what happened with anti social behaviour. What the tories say of course is look at the last time they were in charge. What happened with the economy . Well, there was a Global Financial meltdown and gordon brown sold the gold and there was no money left to quote that famous note left by liam byrne. But youre absolutely right,