Ukraines Kharkiv Region a day after russia sent troops across the border to break through defensive lines. This comes as President Biden gives the go ahead for more aid to ukraine. The most powerful solar storm in more than two decades hits the earth triggering spectacular celestial light shows in many parts of the world. These storms occur when the sun emits large clouds of particles. The dutch entrant at the Eurovision Song Contest in sweden will not perform in the final later today. It follows reports Thatjoost Klein is being investigated by malmo police, after a Television Employee complained about threats made against her. Hello, everybody, a very warm welcome to talking Business Weekly with me, aaron heslehurst. Lets go take a look at what is on the show. Ai presents what we think is potentially an existential threat to artists, to the Music Industry, to our culture, really. How do you like your music . Downloaded, streamed 7 or if youre old school, maybe a dash of vinyl or cd . Or how about written by a robot . With Artificial Intelligence now able to generate music on command, replicating recording artists� voices, and even create avatars of famous musicians, it has never been a more exciting time for the Music Industry nor a more uncertain one. So, just what does the future of music look like and who stands to profit . The artists . The Record Labels . Or the tech giants . Im going to be discussing all of that with these two the head of the organisation working to protect the rights of recording artists, and the big boss of the swedish Entertainment Company behind the virtual show, abba voyage. Also on the show the Healthy Business generating healthier profits. The boss of the global supplement company, h h group, dispenses his wisdom on why our appetite for vitamins is growing. Wherever yourejoining me from around the world. Once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. You know, its been called musics second digital wave. The first saw the move from records and cds to downloads and streaming, with the rise of the streaming giants like spotify, amazon and apple. Now advanced tech, such as Artificial Intelligence, Virtual Reality and avatars, are fueling new opportunities to boost profits with everything from virtual concerts to songs written by robots. This time, though, its not the artist and not even the Record Labels that stand to profit but the tech giants. Earlier this year, we saw the launch of soono, hailed as the gift for music, using al to produce human like songs from brief text cues, all at the press of a button. So to give you an idea, we tested it, and typed in write me a love song about chickens. This was the result. So, there you go. See how easy it is to produce a song in seconds . And thats what the industry is worried about. With Artificial Intelligence able to produce hundreds of songs in seconds, the sheer volume of new ai tracks is flooding streaming platforms, which the industry says is diluting profits for genuine artists. So, lets take a look at the numbers. The global recorded Music Market Grew by over 10 in 2023. Its the second highest growth rate on record, valuing that market at over 28 billion. More than two thirds of that revenue was generated from streaming, growing more than 10 in 2023 to close to 20 billion. An estimated 120,000 new tracks are uploaded to Music Streaming Services every single day. But more than a third of those are said to be written by ai, and that number is rising. Another issue challenging music bosses is that al is now so sophisticated, it can replicate the voice of, well, anyone. And thats given rise to a wave of fake new songs claiming to be by artists such as drake, the weeknd and justin bieber, which have seen hundreds of thousands of streams on music apps before being removed, something the streaming giants are trying to crack down on today. Today Music Companies are helping artists, rightsholders and Tech Companies figure out this new world, which is both exciting and daunting. Its ourjob to not only help amplify artists� creativity, but to protect their rights, their livelihoods and their identities. Across the industry, legends from Roberta Flack to the beatles have embraced ai as a tool to enhance their creativity. At the same time, Generative Ai is appropriating artists� identities and producing deepfakes that depict people doing, saying or singing things that have never happened before. Recently, more than 200 recording artists, including billie eilish, nicki minaj and the estate of frank sinatra, signed an open letter calling on tech giants to stop ai from, well, what they claim is devaluing their work. So, i caught up with the head of the organisation behind that letter. Its goal is to protect artists� rights. Jenjacobson, thanks so much forjoining us. Jen, let me start with this, because 200 plus artists they signed your open letter calling on Tech Companies to stop ai. Use that devalues their music and infringes upon the rights of Human Artists. So, jen, just explain what it is that artists are so worried about. So, this was a letter that the Artists Rights Alliance facilitated, sent out to online platforms, Digital Services and Technology Companies. And what we were trying to do was address these Companies Directly saying, you need to be responsible player in this Music Marketplace that is changing so rapidly, because ai presents what we think is potentially an existential threat to artists, to the Music Industry, to our culture, really. And so, what we� re calling on them to do is to work with us, to use ai in an ethical manner. What we� re concerned about, really, is the devaluation of music that can happen if ai is used in a way that could replace Human Artists. And that� s ultimately what we� re worried about, the replacement of artists, the inability for artists not only to make a livelihood from their work, but actually to to have their work be accessible by fans any more. It� s a real threat, and artists are really worried. And what we noticed, so we put this letter out, and it took off in a way i can� t say that i was surprised, but it was it was bigger than we even could have imagined, because artists are worried, artists are nervous. And the interesting thing about the letter is that it appealed to a wide range of artists, ranging from big names that you� ve heard of to much smaller names. These working musicians who say to themselves, is there going to be a place for me in this new world . So it was exciting to see. Well, jen, i� ve got to ask you, is al more of a threat to artists than, say, a benefit . I think you� re absolutely right that al has some tremendous advantages, exciting opportunities. Artists have been using ai for a while as tools in the production studio, in the creation of beats and harmonies. There� s so many ways that al can be used in an exciting way. The threat comes when this Generative Ai is used in a way that artists don� t have any input, any choice, any control over it. And their work becomes subject to these exploitative uses that they have no idea about. So, we� re really about getting some guardrails onto the way ai is used, not having ai be eliminated. I mean, that wouldn� t be possible, and nor would we want it to be that way. There are wonderful ways that al can be used. But, yes, in its current form, without these guardrails, ai is potentially more of a threat than a positive use. The key for us, for all artists, is consent and compensation. And at the first blush, before anything else, transparency. Transparency. The artist has to know what� s going on with their work, with their voice, with their likeness, and unfortunately, that� s not happening right now. Well, jen, here� s the billion dollar question. With so much money to be made, i� m kind of wondering, will the Tech Companies listen . That is the question of the day, of the century, right . I think some will and some won� t. This is the truth of the matter. We have seen, over and over, new technologies come to bear, many of which are exciting and many of which are threatening to artists, to the Music Community. Often the Music Community is kind of the canary in the coal mine on these things. We see it first, we experience it first. And what we� ve seen usually is that the threats that are created are, at least to some extent, solved when responsible Companies Work together to create some kind of a system, like a Licensing System that will work for both for the Technology Companies and for the creators. Well, jen, let me end on this. In ten years� time, what developments will we have seen in the Music Industry . My dream is that we� ll have a robust Licensing System where Exciting Technology like ai can be used with consent of the music creator� s full knowledge and to create wonderful content that is inspired by the Human Artists themselves. So, the passion and Human Experience and inspiration that can only come from Human Creators continues to be what leads us, what what kind of guides the music, and the ai is an exciting tool that can amplify and assist, but it does not overtake or replace the Human Creators. Because, really, nothing can do that. A machine cannot do what a human artist can do. It just will never substitute for that experience, that passion, that human feeling, the soul. And so, my dream is that the music will continue to have that human soul, and ai will be richly amplifying that in a way that doesn� t devalue and and replace those those Human Creators. Can we get there . I hope so. Well, on that point, jenjacobson, the big boss of the artists rights association, great to have you with us. Thanks for your time, we� ll check in with you soon. Thanks so much, thanks for having me. Whether it� s restoring old recordings that have been collecting virtual dust on record label shelves, such as the recently Released New Beatles Song featuring the latejohn lennon, or giving new life to the works of artists who no longer can or want to go on tour and that all adds up to reaching new audiences and ultimately boosting coffers. So, i decided to catch up with the big boss of the Company Behind abba voyage a concert with virtual avatars of the Swedish Pop Group as they were back in 1979. Great to have you on the show. And let me start with this, because you� ve spoken in the past about focusing on catalogued music. Just exactly what does that mean . We categorise it like music thats older than 18 months. And for us, when were looking into artists, we want a catalogue we want to buy, we need them to be at least five years old. And thats thats what we call catalogue music, because that is something that is not on the top of the charts, but its something that we really believe in if we do the right thing. Were looking into artists that we not only do a financial due diligence, we do a narrative and a brand due diligence. Is there a story to tell about this artist . Is the lyrics fantastic around this artist we can create a story . Or is the life of this artist fantastic . That is what were looking for and thats what we call the catalogue music. Abba voyage, it� s a model where artists can stay pretty much forever young and in their prime. But it does beg the question, could we or will we possibly one day see concerts from from artists who are no longer with us . I mean, the likes of elvis, prince, frank sinatra, for example . Yes, i think thats closer to. When we did abba voyage, the fantastic thing that was at the four of them actually contributed with their own bodies and dancing, performing, singing 25 songs in a studio in stockholm. And that was that was really essential to make it as perfect as possible. Today, you dont need to have all that. You could do it different today. Meaning you could see an artist perform, and we could create something with an artist that isnt with us any more. That will happen in the future. Per, does this up a murky area, though . I mean, are there ethics involved in bringing an artist back to life, so to speak . Of course it is. I think thats very sensitive. The new beatles song, that was a john lennon song. I think it was quite, you know, i read some things about, you know, what would john lennon approve this if he was alive today . And no one knows, you know. A lot of arguments on both sides. Same thing with if if you would do an elvis show or you do a Michael Jackson show, or even do a beatles show, you know, would they want to do that . Would they . And i think thats very, very important to ask that question and maybe also say that, no, we we dont know. And we actually think that he or she, or they didnt want to do this and then we shouldnt do it. But, you know, you know, thats how we think about it, and we we really ask those questions. You can take that, especially when it comes to ai, you know, when when it comes to creating new music. For example, we started we bought, you know, the name and likeness and the vocals of kiss. So, we could actually, if we wanted, do kiss songs, new kiss songs. Well, but should we or do we want to do that . Or what would the fans say about that . Would it be it will sound like in the future . In the near future, it will be good songs, but it wouldnt be kiss songs. You� ve been credited as being instrumental in the rise of the streaming giant spotify. So i� m kind of wondering, was it a case ofjust having to get on board with this new way of listening to music or, i don� t know, simply going out of business . If you go back to to 2000 when the heydays of selling cds and the Music Business had a peak, the global Music Business. And napster came and kazaa, and eventually pirate bay. In 2008, pirate bay was the fifth biggest site on the internet. People was downloading across the world, stealing music, stealing video, stealing movies and seriesjust like crazy. It was terrible. You know, i had to fire 250 people in the Music Business. And people say, oh, no one care about you and no one care about the Music Business because youre dinosaurs. Youre going to end to exist in the future. But at the same time, you know, you know, it was really a sad situation. And then don alec and his team developed spotify and ijust changed from from sony to universal. And for me, it was like i went all in because, you know, it wasnt because i was smart. You know, it was i was desperate because i needed to find a new sound career that i and my peers and peers at other Record Companies and people working together with me and the artists could make money from. And that was spotify. So, my thing was that i went all in on it. I had to believe in something because otherwise the music market in sweden was dead. Well, per, i� ve got to ask you this. Do you see recent developments in al, in the Music Industry as a force for good . Or, as dolly parton puts it, and i quote, the mark of the beast . I think all new introductions of techniques or Sound Carrier Systems will be questioned, rightly. I mean, i rememberthe Video Cassette when it came through, when everyone said, you know, this is crazx when the computer came, everyone said they said this is a machine of satan. You know, this is not something we should work with. Why should we have this . Every new Technique Shifts or every new things have been introduced has been questioned. And, you know, it should be. And then you can say, ok, is there is there a bad thing about it . Is there a good thing about it . And i think so with al, i think its a fantastic evolvement and evolution of new technique. Its also going to be scary. I signed avicii in 2010. He couldnt play any instruments. He downloaded froot loops to his computer and started learning how to do music thanks to software. For me, thats ai. He had such talent. His way to to work and to create music was thanks to this ai tool and other tools became came after. I think were going to see with al creations, if its pictures, if its videos, if its architecture, if m an art. If its music, were going to see sensational things coming. Well, on that point, per sundin, the big boss of pop house entertainment. Fabulous to have you on the show, best of luck with everything and we� ll talk to you again soon. Thank you for having me. Ok, moving on. It� s 1,000,000,000 industry generating healthy profits in more ways than one. I� m talki