Bugs disclosed that i became aware ofthem. ~. ,. Of them. We looked already at the December 2010 of them. We looked already at the December 2010 email of them. We looked already at the December 2010 email by of them. We looked already at the December 2010 email by which. Of them. We looked already at the December 2010 email by which email December 2010 e mail by which e mail you were December 2010 e mail by which e mail you were notified of the receipts and payments . | you were notified of the receipts and payments . And payments . I was notified in december and payments . I was notified in December 2010 . And payments . I was notified in December 2010 . | and payments . I was notified in December 2010 . I wasnt. And payments . I was notified in December 2010 . Iwasnt. I and payments . I was notified in | December 2010 . Iwasnt. I dont recall that. The document you took me to which was the record of the discussion, i was not aware of that at the time. Discussion, i was not aware of that at the time discussion, i was not aware of that at the time. ,. ,. , at the time. Can we look then at the next pol . Second at the time. Can we look then at the next pol . Second page. At the time. Can we look then at the next pol . Second page. The at the time. Can we look then at the next pol . Second page. The remotei next pol . Second page. The Remote Access next pol . Second page. The Remote Access issue, the second line of the quotation, access issue, the second line of the quotation, came up when we were exploring quotation, came up when we were exploring solutions around a problem generated exploring solutions around a problem generated by the system following a migration generated by the system following a migration to horizon online. This issue migration to horizon online. This issue was migration to horizon online. This issue was quickly identified and ethics issue was quickly identified and ethics are issue was quickly identified and ethics are put in place and impacted around ethics are put in place and impacted around 60 ethics are put in place and impacted around 60 branches. And a fix put in place around 60 branches. And a fix put in place it around 60 branches. And a fix put in place. It meant a loss incurred in place. It meant a loss incurred in a particular wheat in effect to disappear in a particular wheat in effect to disappear from the system. | in a particular wheat in effect to disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing this disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing this at disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing this at all, disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing this at all, so disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing this at all, so for disappear from the system. I do not recall seeing this at all, so for me i recall seeing this at all, so for me the first time on errors and defects or bugs, whatever word was being used, two were being disclosed to second sight as part of the work. Are you shutting your mind to the receipt are you shutting your mind to the receipt of are you shutting your mind to the receipt of the information because you know receipt of the information because you know the difficulty that it creates you know the difficulty that it creates for you . Not you know the difficulty that it creates for you . You know the difficulty that it creates for you . Not at all. If i had remembered creates for you . Not at all. If i had remembered seeing creates for you . Not at all. If i had remembered seeing this, | creates for you . Not at all. If i | had remembered seeing this, i creates for you . Not at all. If i had remembered seeing this, i would certainly, it would be part of my consciousness going forward. I really cannot remember seeing this at all. It was the first time, it was when simon baker produced those two anomalies, as he called them. That can come down, thank you. Were you not that can come down, thank you. Were you not aware that can come down, thank you. Were you not aware at the time, then, in 0ctoher you not aware at the time, then, in october 2010, that fujitsu formally notified october 2010, that fujitsu formally notified the post office of the receipts notified the post office of the receipts and Payments Mismatch . | receipts and Payments Mismatch . [ was receipts and Payments Mismatch . Was not receipts and Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. Were receipts and Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. Were you. Receipts and Payments Mismatch . I | was not aware of that. Were you not aware at the was not aware of that. Were you not aware at the time was not aware of that. Were you not aware at the time that was not aware of that. Were you not aware at the time that it was not aware of that. Were you not aware at the time that it happened l aware at the time that it happened again aware at the time that it happened again in aware at the time that it happened again in october 2010 of the meeting i again in october 2010 of the meeting i showed again in october 2010 of the meeting i showed you, the plan for the meeting i showed you, the plan for the meeting between the post office and fujitsu meeting between the post office and fujitsu to meeting between the post office and fujitsu to discuss the receipts and payments fujitsu to discuss the receipts and Payments Mismatch . | fujitsu to discuss the receipts and Payments Mismatch . Fujitsu to discuss the receipts and Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. I Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that i was Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. I was in Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. I was in a Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. I was in a different Payments Mismatch . I was not aware of that. I was in a different role of that. I was in a different role in october, it was only when i came into the head of Network Services role that i started to get involved. At the time you were not aware of the provision of notes concerning the provision of notes concerning the receipts and Payments Mismatch to members of the legal team, the pol to members of the legal team, the pot iegal to members of the legal team, the pol legal team . To members of the legal team, the Pol Legalteam . No. In the to members of the legal team, the pol legal team . No. In the context Pol Legalteam . No. In the Context Ofthe pol legal team . In the context of the seema pol legal team . Tic. In the context of the Seema Misra Case . Pol legalteam . No. In the context of the Seema Misra Case . No. Pol legalteam . No. In the context of the Seema Misra Case . No. It i pol legal team . No. In the context l of the Seema Misra Case . No. It was much later that of the Seema Misra Case . No. It was much later that i of the Seema Misra Case . No. It was much later that i heard of the Seema Misra Case . No. It was much later that i heard about of the Seema Misra Case . No. It was much later that i heard about that i much later that i heard about that case. ,. , much later that i heard about that case. , ~. ,. ,. , case. Did you know that a meeting was arranged case. Did you know that a meeting was arranged in case. Did you know that a meeting was arranged in november case. Did you know that a meeting was arranged in November 2010 i was arranged in November 2010 including was arranged in November 2010 including mark weaver, mark burley, dave king. Including mark weaver, mark burley, dave king, will russell, emma langfield, lynn hobbs and anita taytor, langfield, lynn hobbs and anita taylor, to langfield, lynn hobbs and anita taylor, to discuss how to resolve the discrepancy is generated by branches, add branches, by the receipts branches, add branches, by the receipts and Payments Mismatch . | receipts and Payments Mismatch . I dont believe i was. This receipts and Payments Mismatch . I dont believe i was. This came receipts and Payments Mismatch . I dont believe i was. This came as i receipts and Payments Mismatch . I dont believe i was. This came as a | dont believe i was. This came as a siunificant dont believe i was. This came as a significant new dont believe i was. This came as a significant new news dont believe i was. This came as a significant new news to dont believe i was. This came as a significant new news to you . Dont believe i was. This came as a significant new news to you . In significant new news to you . In terms significant new news to you . Terms of significant new news to you . In terms of the bugs being disclosed . Yes. ~ ,. ,. ,. ,. ,. , yes. Were you aware in that time at mid2013 of yes. Were you aware in that time at mid2013 of any yes. Were you aware in that time at mid2013 of any discussions yes. Were you aware in that time at mid2013 of any discussions within l mid 2013 of any discussions within the post mid 2013 of any discussions within the post Office Senior management as to how the post Office Senior management as to how high the post Office Senior management as to how high up within the Organisation Knowledge of the now three year old payments had gone . No. Three year old payments had gone . No 0n threeyearold payments had gone . No. ,. ,. , no. On the publication of the second siuht no. On the Publication Of The Second Sight Report. No. On the Publication Of The Second Sight Report. Did no. On the Publication Of The Second Sight Report, did you no. On the Publication Of The Second Sight Report, did you seek no. On the Publication Of The Second Sight Report, did you seek to sight report, did you seek to ascertain sight report, did you seek to ascertain it when the post office first became aware of that bug . Sorry. First became aware of that bug . Sorry. The first became aware of that bug . Sorry, the report that the two bugs, the interim report . Sorry, the report that the two bugs, the interim report . Yes. No. Sorry, the report that the two bugs, the interim report . No. Sorry, the report that the two bugs, the interim report . No. The interim report . Yes. No. Did you seek to ascertain the interim report . Yes. No. Did you seek to ascertain which the interim report . Yes. No. Did you seek to ascertain which individuals i seek to ascertain which individuals within seek to ascertain which individuals within the seek to ascertain which individuals within the post office knew about that trug . Within the post office knew about that bu . , within the post office knew about that bug . No. Why not . Within the post office knew about that bug . Why not . Within the post office knew about that bug . Why not . That bug . No. Why not . Because the wa it was that bug . No. Why not . Because the way it was presented that bug . No. Why not . Because the way it was presented was that bug . No. Why not . Because the way it was presented was that, that bug . No. Why not . Because the way it was presented was that, we i way it was presented was that, we have got these bugs, so that was a surprise to me, and i was reassured thatis surprise to me, and i was reassured that is routine and it is being sorted, and i did not push any further on it. Sorted, and i did not push any further on it. ~ ,. ,. ,. ,. , further on it. Were you aware that the suspense further on it. Were you aware that the Suspense Account further on it. Were you aware that the Suspense Account which further on it. Were you aware that the Suspense Account which is further on it. Were you aware that the Suspense Account which is the j the Suspense Account which is the second the Suspense Account which is the second of the Suspense Account which is the second of the two bugs about which the post second of the two bugs about which the post office made a disclosure to second the post office made a disclosure to second sight, had in fact been discovered by the post office in fehruary discovered by the post office in February 2012 before fujitsu . No. February 2012 before fuitsu . No. Did ou February 2012 before fuitsu . No. Did you ask February 2012 before fujitsu . Tic. Did you ask similar questions, what do we did you ask similar questions, what do we know did you ask similar questions, what do we know about this bug and when would do we know about this bug and when would we do we know about this bug and when would we have become the first aware of it . Would we have become the first aware of it . , would we have become the first aware of it . No. Second sight mentioned a third of it . Second sight mentioned a third bug, of it . Second sight mentioned a third bug, as of it . Tic. Second sight mentioned a third bug, as well. That was known, we have third bug, as well. That was known, we have evidence from the post office, we have evidence from the post office, in we have evidence from the post office, in true thousand six, in 2006. Office, in true thousand six, in 2006. Which office, in true thousand six, in 2006, which offers knowledge of that when reading the Second Sight Report . When reading the Second Sight Report . When reading the Second Sight Report . Was your first knowledge. I report . Was your first knowledge. I dont report . Was your first knowledge. I dont remember. It was the two bugs that were disclosed, that was my first knowledge, i was aware of a third because there is an exchange in what is being disclosed and i was querying why we had only given second sight two if we already knew about the third but i did not know about the third but i did not know about the third at the time. If it was really about the third at the time. If it was really the about the third at the time. If it was really the case that the second siht was really the case that the Second Sight Report revealed three bugs, that You Sight Report revealed three bugs, that you personally were not previously aware of, surely you would previously aware of, surely you would have wanted to know how that had happened . For would have wanted to know how that had happened . Had happened . For the third one, i did question had happened . For the third one, i did question how had happened . For the third one, i did question how have had happened . For the third one, i did question how have we had happened . For the third one, i did question how have we only had happened . For the third one, i did question how have we only now realised there is a third and we had not at the time because if we had become aware and i was not involved in these conversations, but if we had become aware there were a couple of bugs, then surely we should have askedif of bugs, then surely we should have asked if there were any more but i was not involved in those discussions. Was not involved in those discussions. ~. , ~. , discussions. Was there any kind of postmortem discussions. Was there any kind of postmortem which discussions. Was there any kind of postmortem which examined discussions. Was there any kind of| postmortem which examined when discussions. Was there any kind of postmortem which examined when did the post postmortem which examined when did the post office corporately know about the post office corporately know about these bugs for the first time . And what about these bugs for the first time . And what is about these bugs for the first time . And what is being done with the knowledge that we had . Not and what is being done with the knowledge that we had . Not that i was aware of knowledge that we had . Not that i was aware of at knowledge that we had . Not that i was aware of at the knowledge that we had . Not that i was awar