To the or another. He was going away to get to the bottom of that. As far as im concerned to the bottom of that. As far as im concerned the technical issue, that is where concerned the technical issue, that is where im concerned the technical issue, that is where im waiting to find out how this is is where im waiting to find out how this is happened. That was accurate, washt this is happened. That was accurate, wasnt it . This is happened. That was accurate, wasnt it . That mrs arthur well had been wasnt it . That mrs arthur well had been reinstated, but there remained a mystery been reinstated, but there remained a mystery how on a and dormant stock unit, money a mystery how on a and dormant stock unit, money had suddenly appeared in it. Unit, money had suddenly appeared in it and unit, money had suddenly appeared in it and they unit, money had suddenly appeared in it. And they needed to be some sort of that it. And they needed to be some sort of that exhalation for that, didnt there . Of that exhalation for that, didnt there . , � of that exhalation for that, didnt there . , ~ ,. , of that exhalation for that, didnt there . , ~ i. Of that exhalation for that, didnt there . , ~ ~ �. , there . Yes. And you say, a, b, that is ou. There . Yes. And you say, a, b, that is yom helen there . Yes. And you say, a, b, that is you. Helen has there . Yes. And you say, a, b, that is you. Helen has looked there . Yes. And you say, a, b, that is you. Helen has looked at there . Yes. And you say, a, b, that is you. Helen has looked at the is you. Helen has looked at the information from the logs and taken that information and put it into a Working File Poster as you can appreciate, that is a lot of data and can track where that is money has moved through the system in your branch. So she can talk you through that and we can do that right now. Mr baker, he asked a question. Was it something someone did in the branch, it something someone did in the branch, was it something the system has done branch, was it something the system has done. Can you see that . Yes, i can has done. Can you see that . Yes, i can it has done. Can you see that . Yes, i can if we has done. Can you see that . Yes, i can if we can has done. Can you see that . Yes, i can. If we can go forward to page 11. Can. If we can go forward to page it im can. If we can go forward to page it in just can. If we can go forward to page 11. Imjust reading it can. If we can go forward to page 11. Im just reading it these to give 11. Im just reading it these to give you 11. Im just reading it these to give you some context for what the issues give you some context for what the issues are give you some context for what the issues are. Towards the foot of the page about eight lines in, starting with item 152, about eight lines in, starting with item 152, mr gillibrand says, we can pinpoint item 152, mr gillibrand says, we can pinpoint where the figures have come from, pinpoint where the figures have come from. Thats pinpoint where the figures have come from, thats not true, we can pinpoint from, thats not true, we can pinpoint where every figure comes front pinpoint where every figure comes front can pinpoint where every figure comes from. Can you win it like this figure from. Can you win it like this figure is from. Can you win it like this figure is behind the scenes . No, you cant figure is behind the scenes . No, you cant no, figure is behind the scenes . No, you cant. No, you cannot get into the system, cant. No, you cannot get into the system, are cant. No, you cannot get into the system, are you saying . Mr gillibrand says, no, you cant. Mr athwelll. Gillibrand says, no, you cant. Mr athwelll, no, you cannot get into the systems . No. You cannot get into the systems . No. You cannot get into the horizon the systems . No. You cannot get into the Horizon System . Mr gillibrand, no. The Horizon System . Mr gillibrand, no~ over the Horizon System . Mr gillibrand, no. Overthe page. He says, yes, you can. No. Overthe page. He says, yes, you can. Mr no. Overthe page. He says, yes, you can. Mr gillibrand says, no, we cant can. Mr gillibrand says, no, we cant no, can. Mr gillibrand says, no, we cant. No, we cant. Then you see, nobody cant. No, we cant. Then you see, nobody in cant. No, we cant. Then you see, nobody in the cant. No, we cant. Then you see, nobody in the post office can get into the nobody in the post office can get into the system. Anything you have seen on into the system. Anything you have seen on the into the system. Anything you have seen on the screen has been logged against seen on the screen has been logged against the user. Locking in on the system against the user. Locking in on the system against a password. But only that individuals should have that. We dont that individuals should have that. We dont want to know what passwords are, so we dont want to know what passwords are, so we we dont want to know what passwords are, so we cannot access those systems are, so we cannot access those systems at are, so we cannot access those systems at all. In the light of the email systems at all. In the light of the email you systems at all. In the light of the e mail you had received a month before, e mail you had received a month before, on e mail you had received a month before, on The 5th Of December, what you said before, on The 5th Of December, what you said there wasnt true, was it . On the you said there wasnt true, was it . On the 5th you said there wasnt true, was it . On the 5th of you said there wasnt true, was it . On The 5th Of December, lynn said post office cant come a few gypsy can. That is what i have said there, was that nobody at post office can get in. Was that nobody at post office can net in. ,. , was that nobody at post office can iet in. ,. ,. , was that nobody at post office can net in. ,. ,. ,. , was that nobody at post office can net in. ,. ,. , y. , was that nobody at post office can retin. ,. ,. , get in. Come on, are you saying is that what you get in. Come on, are you saying is that what you are get in. Come on, are you saying is that what you are saying get in. Come on, are you saying is that what you are saying overall. That what you are saying overall there that what you are saying overall there is that what you are saying overall there is accurate . That what you are saying overall there is accurate . That is accurate. We no on there is accurate . That is accurate. We go on to there is accurate . That is accurate. We go on to talk there is accurate . That is accurate. We go on to talk later there is accurate . That is accurate. We go on to talk later about we go on to talk later about fujitsu, i believe. But in terms of what i said there, that was accurate. Nobody in post office can get into the system ben, and i still dont think anyone can now, even years after i left the business. It years after i left the business. It was inaccurate by not being a full account, was inaccurate by not being a full account, wasnt it . Nobody in post office account, wasnt it . Nobody in post office can account, wasnt it . Nobody in post office can do this, but we found out that People Office can do this, but we found out that people in fujitsu can. That would that people in fujitsu can. That would be that people in fujitsu can. That would be the open and transparent thing would be the open and transparent thing to would be the open and transparent thing to say, wouldnt it . At would be the open and transparent thing to say, wouldnt it . Thing to say, wouldnt it . At this oint thing to say, wouldnt it . At this point here. Thing to say, wouldnt it . At this point here. As thing to say, wouldnt it . At this point here, as you thing to say, wouldnt it . At this point here, as you can thing to say, wouldnt it . At this point here, as you can tell thing to say, wouldnt it . At this point here, as you can tell froml thing to say, wouldnt it . At this i point here, as you can tell from the notes, it is quite confrontational between val and kevin. I came into this to try to calm it so recurred start having a conversation that. But what ive said there is correct. Nobody in post office can get into the system, and then val went on to say about development in the chesterfield team. Did say about development in the chesterfield team. Say about development in the chesterfield team. Did you think that was the chesterfield team. Did you think that was the honest chesterfield team. Did you think that was the honest thing chesterfield team. Did you think that was the honest thing to chesterfield team. Did you think that was the honest thing to do, chesterfield team. Did you think. That was the honest thing to do, to only talk that was the honest thing to do, to only talk about post office when you knew very only talk about post office when you knew very well about fujitsus facility knew very well about fujitsus facility to knew very well about fujitsus facility to remotely access plants accounts . Facility to remotely access plants accounts . It facility to remotely access plants accounts . ,. , accounts . It was important in terms ofthe accounts . It was important in terms of the distinction. Accounts . It was important in terms of the distinction. Nobody accounts . It was important in terms of the distinction. Nobody in accounts . It was important in terms of the distinction. Nobody in post i of the distinction. Nobody in post office can, that is what i was saying. The conversation goes on, but all i was saying was distilling the Confrontation Exchange between them. It the Confrontation Exchange between them. , the Confrontation Exchange between them. ,. , ~ the Confrontation Exchange between them. ~ ~ them. It carries on. Mr athwelll, ou them. It carries on. Mr athwelll, you probably them. It carries on. Mr athwelll, you probably cant, them. It carries on. Mr athwelll, you probably cant, but them. It carries on. Mr athwelll, you probably cant, but your you probably cant, but your business you probably cant, but your Business Development in chesterfield can. Nobody in post office can do that, can. Nobody in post office can do that, you can. Nobody in post office can do that, you say. Mr athwelll says, are you sure . That, you say. Mr athwelll says, are you sure . He that, you say. Mr athwelll says, are you sure . He replied, have you asked . You sure . He replied, have you asked . I you sure . He replied, have you asked . I have asked them and these will come asked . I have asked them and these will come out into the open later on. Will come out into the open later on what will come out into the open later on. What did they tell you . Did they tell you on. What did they tell you . Did they tell you that people in post office can access . They cannot access it because can access . They cannot access it because it can access . They cannot access it because it is can access . They cannot access it because it is done against a user id. 0k, because it is done against a user id~ 0k. Im because it is done against a user id. Ok, im not going to argue over it. Then id. Ok, im not going to argue over it. Then mr id. Ok, im not going to argue over it. Then mrgillibrand, id. Ok, im not going to argue over it. Then mr gillibrand, it is a fact nobody it. Then mr gillibrand, it is a fact nobody in it. Then mr gillibrand, it is a fact nobody in post office can access horizon. Nobody in post office can access horizon, they cannot win if you let any of horizon, they cannot win if you let any of the horizon, they cannot win if you let any of the data. Why were you not being any of the data. Why were you not being open any of the data. Why were you not being open about fujitsu access . All of the being open about fujitsu access . Fill of the information i had was what tracy had put into the e mail the day before. Tracy had put into the email the day before tracy had put into the email the da before. ,. ,. , day before. No, you had the email from the 5th day before. No, you had the email from the 5th of day before. No, you had the email from The 5th Of December. Day before. No, you had the email from The 5th Of December. What. Day before. No, you had the emaill from The 5th Of December. What ive said is i from The 5th Of December. What ive said is i didnt from The 5th Of December. What ive said is i didnt remember from The 5th Of December. What ive said is i didnt remember seeing said is i didnt remember seeing that e mail at the time, so this is really my first recollection of anything to do with questioning the system. Anything to do with questioning the s stem. ,. ,. ,. , system. This is within a month of receivin system. This is within a month of receiving that system. This is within a month of receiving that email, system. This is within a month of receiving that email, almost system. This is within a month of receiving that email, almost to | system. This is within a month of i receiving that email, almost to the receiving that e mail, almost to the day. Receiving that e mail, almost to the day it receiving that e mail, almost to the day it is receiving that e mail, almost to the day. It is about the same subject. Are you day. It is about the same subject. Are you saying you airbrushed it from are you saying you airbrushed it from your are you saying you airbrushed it from your mind . I are you saying you airbrushed it from your mind . Are you saying you airbrushed it from your mind . I dont remember even seeing from your mind . I dont remember even seeing it. From your mind . I dont remember even seeing it, that from your mind . I dont remember even seeing it, that is from your mind . I dont remember even seeing it, that is what from your mind . I dont remember even seeing it, that is what i even seeing it, that is what i struggle with, because. Maybe we stru ale struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with it struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with it as struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with it as well. Struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with it as well. Is struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with it as well. Is what struggle with, because. Maybe we struggle with it as well. Is what is i struggle with it as well. Is what is happening struggle with it as well. Is what is happening is that you are telling us you dont happening is that you are telling us you dont recall it because you know the email you dont recall it because you know the e mail of The 5th Of December 2010 present you with a problem . Not at all. I 2010 present you with a problem . At all. I wish i 2010 present you with a problem . Iirrit at all. I wish i had remembered that information, because that, coming into this meeting, with the further information, i would into this meeting, with the further information, iwould have into this meeting, with the further information, i would have known a lot more. But in this meeting, i came in on the back of the e mail that came in the day before from tracey. That is my first recollection of that information. The e mail from recollection of that information. The e mailfrom December Recollection of that information. The e mail from december have recollection of that information. The e mailfrom december have no bearing on me in this meeting. Lasting . Bearing on me in this meeting. Why . It is about remote bearing on me in this meeting. Why . It is about Remote Access. Bearing on me in this meeting. Why . It is about Remote Access. I bearing on me in this meeting. Why . It is about Remote Access. I dont it is about Remote Access. I dont remember it is about Remote Access. I dont remember seeing it is about Remote Access. I dont remember seeing that it is about Remote Access. I dont remember seeing that email. If| it is about Remote Access. I dont| remember seeing that email. If i remember seeing that e mail. If i havent seen it, i wouldnt have taken that knowledge into this meeting. This, for me, was the first time i had actually seen in my head anything to do with Remote Access. As i said previously, in my other roles, this havent come up as an issue. ,. ,. ,. , issue. Can we go forward to page 47, lease . Issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can i issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can i take issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can i take it issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can i take it that, issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can i take it that, in issue. Can we go forward to page 47, please . Can i take it that, in the please . Can i take it that, in the arts of please . Can i take it that, in the parts of the please . Can i take it that, in the parts of the transcript please . Can i take it that, in the parts of the transcript which parts of the transcript which immediately follow the exchange we have been looking at, the issue of whether or not fujitsu could gain Remote Access doesnt arise . Thats correct, Remote Access doesnt arise . Thats correct. Sir Remote Access doesnt arise . Thats correct. Sir can Remote Access doesnt arise . Thats correct, sir. Can we Remote Access doesnt arise . Thats correct, sir. Can we go Remote Access doesnt arise . Thats correct, sir. Can we go forward correct, sir. Can we go forward please correct, sir. Can we go forward please to correct, sir. Can we go forward please to page 47 . And scroll down to entry please to page 47 . And scroll down to entry 857. You see, you claim there to entry 857. You see, you claim there is to entry 857. You see, you claim there is a to entry 857. You see, you claim there is a glitch in the system, in reference there is a glitch in the system, in reference to the 436 pounds. I think that is ref