he later apologised for what he called rude comments. plenty of people saw the remarks straightaway as racist — but it took an age in political terms for rishi sunak to agree. at a rally on friday night in hackney, diane abbott told the crowd to stand firm against racism. this is about the way that black women are disrespected... decade upon decade. the conservative cabinet minister and transport secretary, mark harper, spoke to laura kuennsberg, on her sunday morning programme, she asked him whether frank hester�*s comments were racist. did you think these comments were racist? yes, look, the prime minister made it very clear at prime minister's questions on wednesday that they were racist. it took him some time to do that. did you think straight they were racist? you said it took an age in political terms but it didn't take long at all, the prime minister said it on wednesday and his spokesperson was clear the day before that they were racist comments and unacceptable. and frank hester apologised for those comments. that isn't what happened initially, it did take some time for downing street to say these comments were racist. they were rather dancing around the issue. in fact, until your cabinet colleague kemi badenoch said online that these were clearly racist, that was not what downing street was saying on the record. i'm sure people wanted to make sure and check the facts. the newspaper reports things and you want to check the facts are correct. then i think the prime minister was very clear about it, that they were racist comments, they were unacceptable and wrong, and he made that very clear, his spokesman made it very clear, and he made it very clear in the house of commons on wednesday. i heard him and he was robust and clear. you know some of your colleagues thought it took too long and there was too much of a delay. things happen very fast in politics and we had a very strong response from many viewers this week, it was clear straightaway. to give you some comments, clyde phillips says the alleged statement was to most of the population obviously racist and misogynistic. another viewer said they were horrible, insensitive and racist. another viewer, chris battle, said they were clearly racist and sexist. why did downing street not straightaway agree with our viewers upon the description of the comments? we did agree with those. the prime minister was clear about it. you do want to check the facts. just because a newspaper reports something, you want to check your facts. we were clear about it, they were racist comments. frank hester has apologised for the comments. and we said we should accept his apology, which we have done. what is that you check because downing street was very happy to say these were rude, unacceptable and unpleasant comments. downing street was not denying at that point that it had taken place. it was their description of what those words meant. and forgive me for labouring this point but this is absolutely vital. the prime minister was very clear about it. i was there in the house of commons on wednesday, he couldn't have been clearer. having an argument about how many hours it took to say something, i don't really think is the issue here. judgment matters. the issue is that the prime minister was clear those were racist comments, they were unacceptable and he was absolutely clear about it in terms when he was asked about it in the house of commons on wednesday. i was there and i heard him make that point very robustly. having sent some of your colleagues out to say they were not to do with race or gender. but you made your point, downing street had to take its time. the other issue is money. he is as it stands your biggest owner. he has given £10 million. we know that. i will ask if he has given more. our viewer christopher duncan wants to know why the party is hanging on to cash from someone who rishi sunak has said has made racist comments. the donation predated his comments and we declared that in the usual way which is how people know he made that donation. he has made the comments, he apologised for them and the prime minister has made it very clear that the donation stands. you don't think he should give the money back? i don't. he made racist comments, they were unacceptable, the prime minister has made that clear and frank hester has apologised. he has and we should make that clear. he acknowledges they were wrong as well. he has not apologised for them being racist, he apologised for making rude remarks, the specifics of the apology are important. has he or has he not given the conservatives another £5 million? we have declared the donation he has made. i am not involved in donations to the party. i am transport secretary, that's not what i'm involved with. in the future if there was a future donation that will be declared in the usual way but that is a hypothetical question that will be looked at. there are processes for looking at donations to political parties and declaring them. i'm not involved in those but my understanding is, if there is a future one it'll be looked at in the usual way and declared but that is a hypothetical question. it is not really a hypothetical question because there has been reporting this week from reputable organisations saying that he has offered another £5 million to the party. i think our viewers might have expected, with respect, mark harper, that you might have found this out before coming on the programme today. because this is a matter of huge public interest. did you not ask those involved to tell you? the donations he made in the past have been accepted and properly declared. that's how people know they exist. if frank hester in the future were minded to make a donation to the party that would be looked at in the usual way and declared. but that's a hypothetical question about what might happen in the future. we know what has been declared about the nations that have been made already. those are on their record and that's how people know about them. what happens in the future, it's a hypothetical question that will be looked at in due course. for some of our viewers they might think of what the prime minister said when he moved in.- think of what the prime minister said when he moved in. listen to this. this government _ said when he moved in. listen to this. this government will - said when he moved in. listen to this. this government will have l this. this government will have integrity. — this. this government will have integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level. he promised to hiuhest at every level. he promised to highest levels. _ at every level. he promised to highest levels. there's - at every level. he promised to highest levels. there's been i highest levels. there's been enormous public interest on whether frank hester has given them 5 million more pounds. isn't it a contradiction between the promised rishi sunak made to the country about being accountable for integrity that you can't tell us what is going on? the donations frank hester _ what is going on? the donations frank hester has _ what is going on? the donations frank hester has made - what is going on? the donations frank hester has made have - what is going on? the donations. frank hester has made have been properly looked at, accepted and they've been declared in the open and transparent way we are required to do and expect us. if there are future donations, i don't know whether frank hester will make any donations. find whether frank hester will make any donations. �* , ., �* ., ,~' whether frank hester will make any donations. . , ., �* ., ., , ., donations. and you didn't ask anyone in the party? — donations. and you didn't ask anyone in the party? i _ donations. and you didn't ask anyone in the party? i don't _ donations. and you didn't ask anyone in the party? i don't know— donations. and you didn't ask anyone in the party? i don't know whether i in the party? i don't know whether he will give _ in the party? i don't know whether he will give us _ in the party? i don't know whether he will give us donations _ in the party? i don't know whether he will give us donations in - in the party? i don't know whether he will give us donations in the - he will give us donations in the future. we have proper processes for checking they are acceptable and they are declared in the usual way. i don't know what is going to happen, whether he will give us more money. there are proper processes, and they will be declared in the usual way, as the prime minister said, so they are transparent and people can make judgments. said, so they are transparent and people can makejudgments. d0 said, so they are transparent and people can make judgments. people can make 'udgments. do the conservatives — people can make judgments. do the conservatives have _ people can make judgments. do the conservatives have a _ people can make judgments. do the conservatives have a problem - people can make judgments. do the conservatives have a problem with l conservatives have a problem with race? ~ , ,., , conservatives have a problem with race? ~ , , ., race? absolutely not. the prime minister said _ race? absolutely not. the prime minister said we _ race? absolutely not. the prime minister said we are _ race? absolutely not. the prime minister said we are proudly - race? absolutely not. the prime minister said we are proudly led| race? absolutely not. the prime i minister said we are proudly led by the first british asian prime minister with the most ethnically diverse cabinet there has ever been. we are a party which welcomes people from across the uk, whatever their background, whatever their race. if they share our values and approach, we want everyone to be a member of the party and feel, but within it. asked whether labour has a problem with racism, harriet harmen said that "big money" racism and sexism in politics need to be clamped down on. even though there's been an advance of black people and women into politics, there's still a greater backlash, and that is what people are facing. it was so obvious that comments that was made, and downright dangerous. the only explanation is because of the money, is they hesitated to say what it was, because accepted such a huge amount for their election war chest and are clearly negotiating for more. what the conservatives did last year as they of the amount of money parties can spend at elections to enable themselves to spend more. i think there's a real problem with not only racism and sexism in politics, but big money, which needs to be clamped on. that politics, but big money, which needs to be clamped on.— to be clamped on. that has often been a very _ to be clamped on. that has often been a very toxicity _ to be clamped on. that has often been a very toxicity mix - to be clamped on. that has often been a very toxicity mix of - to be clamped on. that has often | been a very toxicity mix of money to be clamped on. that has often i been a very toxicity mix of money in politics, no question. on diane abbott's view, is that labour has a problem with racism. is abbott's view, is that labour has a problem with racism.— problem with racism. is she right? we are you — problem with racism. is she right? we are you have _ problem with racism. is she right? we are you have further— problem with racism. is she right? we are you have further to - problem with racism. is she right? we are you have further to go, - we are you have further to go, keeper hawk—eye on it. the danger you ensure you tackle disco nation is complacency. you should always look at your own thoughts and actions, because we have a big context. there was research last year which showed 75% of black women have experienced discrimination at work. that is the context. who can say there is no problem? we've got to recognise it's been a terrible, evil problem, toxic in politics and generally. we have to fight against it, not saying we are all right. should diane abbott be allowed back into the labour party? it's been one year she's been investigated for her letter. ~ �* ., ., , letter. we've got a independent complaints _ letter. we've got a independent complaints procedure _ letter. we've got a independent complaints procedure and - letter. we've got a independent complaints procedure and i - letter. we've got a independent | complaints procedure and i don't want to second—guess them. i support keir starmer�*s drive against anti—semitism, but i would be sad if diane abbott leaves, ends her political career, and she's been an amazing trailblazer. charles spencer's speech at his sister princess diana's funeral is seared into the collective memory, venting his fury at how his sister had been hounded by the paparazzi. but, more than 25 years later, he's now revealing the secrets of his early life. he's written a book about violent and sexual abuse at the boarding school he was sent to when he was just eight years old. and how he and diana were hurt by one of their nannies, nanny forster, as children. laura kuenssberg went to meet him at his family's 18th century london home, spencer house he started by telling me about his first day at the school. i remember the shock of the journey that day and being dropped there by my father. my father, very sweet, decent, loving man. and i look back and i know he hated doing it. in fact, he told me that was the worst day of his fathering for me. i mean, i went back through my family records, a lot of the people who lived here, over 300 years, and you can see this sort of conspiracy among the adults. they knew how brutal it was going to be for the little boys being sent away. and i don't blame my parents or any of the other parents for thinking it was the done thing at that time. i think the idea was that it was essential to blend with people from similar backgrounds, and to take the hard knock that the real brutal sort of heartbreak of being sent away from home. and in return you were going to be privileged and part of a set that you could rely on for the rest of your life. you say you felt cast out by your family, though. does that feeling ever go away? ithink... one of the things i had, actually, for the book, were my letters home, and i see this theme when i read them, that i'm always apologising. and i think i know that that was because the only way i could make sense of being sent to boarding school at such a vulnerable age was that i must have failed somehow as a son. and i don't think any child should really have to feel that. even before, though, you were sent away to school, you talk about some elements of your upbringing. you talk also about one of the nannies that looked after you and your sister banging your heads together painfully. that kind of discipline and perhaps that kind of violence. i mean, do you think that element of that at home had an effect on you and your sister before you were even sent away? i think that really damaging violence to children is going to affect them, whatever house they come from, whatever family they are born into. and that nanny who did that to us, i mean, she used to crack our heads together if we were both found to have done something naughty. obviously without my father's knowledge, but it really hurt. it wasn't a tap on the wrist, it was a cracking crunch, you know? and i remember it still. i have two older sisters and only later was it found out that a different nanny was punishing them by ladling laxatives down them and my parents couldn't work out why they were constantly ill. so you were dealing with a very unstructured world of privileged parents living parallel lives to their children. but you and diana and your other sisters were then brought up even in a home environment where staff, nannies who were hired to look after you, were hurting you. hmm. again, i don't think we realised that that was wrong. we knew it was painful and we knew it was something we wanted to avoid, but i think children don't know morality necessarily at that stage, or certainly the law. so it was something that we lived with. let's talk then about when you arrived at school, and in the book, page after page after page describes terrible violence, what seems clearly like forms of paedophilia. terrible abuse. and you set it out compellingly, brutally and very honestly. is there a moment, though, in amongst all of that, that still particularly haunts you? i think the problem, why i called it a "very private school", it was because it was dominated by a particular figure, the headmaster, who'd closed down the school to the outside world. he constructed his dreamworld of having 75 little boys at his beck and call for sadistic thrashings and sexual thrills. if i look at one incident, it seems so minor, if i look at the catalogue of horrible things that happened, was this chilling moment when he caught us all in my dormitory, and the sheer rattling joy in his voice as he called us overfor a thrashing. i mean, i was beaten lots of times, but there was one particular beating which was so violent and painful that i had to deal with that separately as a sort of therapeutic session 20 or 30 years later, because it was so shocking. you just said, "oh, it was a minor thing." mm—hm. it's not a minor thing for a young boy to be thrashed violently by an adult, by a strong man. he was addicted, i would... no. he very much enjoyed hurting little boys, and his trick was using a cane. he had various canes with their own names, and his signature was cutting... you know, this was pants down, cutting the buttocks with five strokes and then putting the sixth one across the five. it was something about a focused aggression and what i would now call sexual gratification that came through that evening, that's what shook me. there was also the sexual abuse, actually, from a female staff member. i mean, you were groomed... yes. ..as an 11—year—old. she was an assistant matron at the school, twice your age, someone who you should have been able to trust. what happened, and what effect did that have on you in later years? i think to set the context, this was a school without feminine touch at all. there was one very tough, deeply aggressive matron in charge of the sort of matrony things, you know, clothes, etc. and it seemed so wonderful to have a youngerfemale member of staff who was 20. and i remember i was sent halfway through a term to a dormitoryjust outside her room in the attics. and she started by giving... she had sweets. sweets, grapes, biscuits and all that sort of thing. and then she started seducing me and others, actually, but as far as i was concerned i was suddenly the focus of some feminine warmth. and it started with lots of long, long kisses, of a sort i didn't really understand at all. you know, french kissing was not something i knew anything about. and then it progressed further. and, i mean, i have to say, and i don't know, i've not talked to many victims of sexual abuse at a young age, it was almost a thrilling secret. i didn't know how wrong it was, i certainly didn't know it was a crime. it's incredible to imagine that nobody knew, that nobody told. what was it like living in that culture of secrecy? did you think about telling other people? telling your parents? did you think about telling other people in your life? you are right, there was a culture of secrecy. and alongside that ran a very strong... i think the biggest rule, unwritten rule in the school, was "don't tell tales". of course, that's very self—serving for an abusive environment. and i actually felt, even writing this book, i felt occasions where my conscience said, "you're sneaking, you're telling tales on the school," even now, you know, a few decades on. we came from backgrounds where conversations with parents were not as they would be on the whole today. i didn't tell anyone until... in fact the first family members i told were my two surviving sisters, who are in their mid—to—late 60s, and that was about a year ago. because i thought i better warn them what was going to come out in this book. and they were absolutely stunned. something you write in the book is that when diana was being sent away to school, she said to yourfather, "if you loved me, you wouldn't leave me here." do you think she was also hurt or affected by being sent away? well, first of all i'm so proud of her for saying that. it's so incredibly impactful. to the point that my father remembered it. i would say any child, i believe under teenage years, under13, ithink... i don't think they should be sent away, i don't think it's fair. i don't think they can possibly understand what's going on. there are a lot of teenagers who would think, "great, i want to get away from parents!" and that's fine. of course, it's a personal decision but i don't think any child, personally, should be sent away before they hit puberty. when you were there in that terrible environment, you write about how you were self—harming. you were making yourself sick. mm—hm. it was very poignant to read of that, of course, also with people being aware of what diana went through. did you ever discuss those experiences with her? no. so, i've not been diagnosed with anything from that time but it's quite clear to me i had bulimia at one stage. and mine was very much connected to a need for some attention. i was, i say it in the book, i felt like i was drowning in an adult sea. we had metal chamber pots under our bed in case we were sick in the night, and i used to make myself vomit. and i'd take it to the matron to show her. and it was, i realise, a complete cry for attention and help. and i never discussed that sort of mental illness things, really, with diana. and certainly... we grew up together. i don't remember ever discussing anything from boarding school at all. she, though, had such a reputation for being able to show incredible empathy. mm. what do you think she would make of this now, knowing what you went through as a young boy? as a tiny boy? i think she would have been pretty cross. and appalled. and... yeah, i think she would have been stunned, actually. and the fact that i went to such a tricky place, i think she would have found hard. i know you don't want to discuss the specifics around your nephews, william and harry, but do you think that boarding school experiences have made it harder for the aristocracy in this country to have healthy family relationships? i couldn't answer that because i can only really talk about myself, i think. it's too personal to trample on other people's family with a view on something as important as that. my personal view is... i mean, i've had seven children and i would never send any of them away. if they wanted to go away, they could or can. two of them chose to go weekly boarding in their mid—teens. but ijust, i couldn't have done it to them, i couldn't have said, "right, you're going." i just couldn't. it would break my heart. and it's interesting, you write, you asked your contemporaries at school to describe what you were like. yes. and they use the word angry. yes. and you were angry for a long time. and everybody was a witness to some of your completely understandable anger, of course, publicly in september 1997. did the frustration, do you think, at some of the ill—treatment of your sister, diana, come from some of that buried hurt from school? i don't think she ever understood why her genuinely good intentions were sneered at by the media. why there appeared to be a permanent quest on their behalf to bring her down. it is baffling. my own and only explanation is that genuine goodness is threatening to those at the opposite end of the moral spectrum. that sense perhaps that you finally wanted to stand up to bullies. i used to take on the press a fair amount. so that's connected to this school. because i had an absolute hatred of injustice and non—truth. and so perhaps when i gave the eulogy at diana's funeral, it's hopping on a generation from that, because of their impact on her death. in terms, though, of the provocation that you felt then, driven by paparazzi, and the treatment of your sister, diana, by the press, if you look now, in 2024, at how the paparazzi has sort of developed into this online circus, this online free for all, do you think the dangers of that are perhaps more potent? and if we look at what's happening now around the current princess of wales, do you think the dangers of that online, of the sort of conspiracy world, are more potent than the press intrusion that you have fought against? no, i think it was more dangerous back in the day. ithink... yeah, if i look back to '97 and diana's death, i think that was so shocking to... the circumstances of her death were so shocking that it did make the industry that supports the paparazzi really consider more carefully what it could and couldn't do. not because they had a moral judgment, but because it was unacceptable to the public. do you worry, though, about what has happened to the truth? i do worry about what has happened to the truth. and in terms of the impact on you, having written this book. you know, you sat on this for decades because of that culture of fear and the silence that was imposed upon you. what was the effect on you of finally putting pen to paper? it took me into very dark places inside of me. i had endless nightmares. i didn't know the appalling things, the really serious things that had happened to some of my friends and contemporaries. and i'd come back from having met them and interviewed them and be in pieces. and then actually at the end of last year when i'd finished the book, i had a bit of a breakdown again. and i had to go into a residential treatment for trauma for writing this book. you say it got very dark. yes, i got to a place where everything seemed rather pointless. not suicidal, but everything seemed absolutely pointless, because i think confronting... i don't think it's an overstatement to say confronting evil is a very... well, it's cataclysmic, really, or it can be. i've always been intrigued by what people, by what humans are capable of doing to each other. and even my friends would be amazed to know, i haven't had a drink for many, many weeks. and just centring myself. and i have emdr, which is a form of therapy for ptsd. have other people who hadn't spoken out before come to you since then? and if anyone is suffering from abuse and they don't yet have the courage to speak out, what would you say to them? they must speak out. i think so many of these people, when i approach them, i said, what's your memory of this place? and they went, oh, no, no, no, i've put that away in a box for 50 years. and then when they open it, i could see them come alive and be happier. and obviously i'm not a therapist, i'm not qualified, but i hope i was a trusted ear. i do think telling people close to you... i had an e—mail from someone three years older than me at maidwell, and he wrote to me and said, "i just want you to know that you writing this book, i've been with my wife for a0 years, i've just told her what i went through at maidwell and we spent the last hour crying together." you know, i went to a restaurant last night and i was early, and the maitre d' came up and hejust whispered to me, "i just want to thank you. i went to a school like that. and i've never told anyone." and it's everywhere. power in the truth. i like to think so. charles, thank you so much indeed for speaking to us today. it's been fascinating. thank you. in a statement, maidwell hall school said it was sorry about the experiences charles spencer and some other pupils had had. it said almost every facet of school life has evolved significantly since the 19705, in particular the safeguarding and welfare of children. if you have been affected by issues raised there is lots of information about organisations which can offer support on the bbc actionline. you are watching bbc news. do stay with us. live from london. this is bbc news. queues form at polling stations in russia after opposition supporters urge voters to take part in a silent ballot box protest against president putin. moscow says ukrainian drones and missiles have been shot down across eight regions, but one hit an oil refinery and started a fire. as gangs tighten their grip over haiti's capital, the us says it's chartering a plane to evacuate its civilians from the north. a state of emergency in iceland after a fourth volcanic eruption in as many months. the village of grindavik is evacuated, only weeks after residents were allowed to return. we start in russia — and bring you these live pictures from moscow, where voting has entered its third and final day for the country's presidential election, which is certain to hand vladimir putin another six years in power. ballots have been cast over three days. there has been some vandalism and a number of arrests at polling stations, but the final result is not in doubt, as mr putin has no credible opponent. it comes as supporters of the late opposition leader, alexei navalny, have urged people to turn out en masse at midday in each time zone and vote for any candidate other than mr putin