scotland. aberdeen fresh but sunny. the rest of the country, south—westerly winds will push in thick cloud. here is the outlook, the weekend and into next week, pretty much every weather icon the government has updated the definition of extremism, but who decides what individuals and groups are extremist? and what if they get it wrong? tonight on newsnight. .. the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation and of state threat legislation is unimpressed. what constitutes hatred or intolerance is very much in the eye of the beholder. i'm sure the government has acted with the best of intentions, but there is, of course, a risk it will be seen as a political decision. the senior government mp bob seely is here to explain how it works. also tonight — razor sharp criticism of israel's actions in gaza by chuck schumer, america's most seniorjewish politician and the us senate majority leader. the target of his ire? benjamin neta nyahu himself. prime minister netanyahu has lost his way. israel cannot survive if it becomes a pariah. and we have the first television interview with the aunt of the late teresa mcmahon after the high court today rejected the family's appeal to re—investigate her death which the police ruled a suicide. good evening. who is going to sit in judgment over who is extremist and who is not, and what qualifies them to make the judgment of whether individuals or groups have characteristics of "violence, hatred and intolerance? " today michael gove, the communities secretary, announced the first five groups to be assessed — three islamist, and two whom who he said promoted neo—nazi ideology. in the first updating of the definition of extremism since 2011, the groups within the scope of the new rules will be ones that, according to the government, negate or destroy the fundamental rights and freedoms of others, or undermine, overturn or replace the uk's system of liberal parliamentary democracy and democratic rights, or create the a permissive environment for others to do the above two. i'm joined by nick. take us through the announcement of. michael gove campaigned on this issue for 20 years as a journalist in print and in the last decade or so as a minister. remember those battles when he was education secretary and theresa may was the home secretary. today he was on his double matted mess and even praised george galloway, not for his policies but for his oratorical skills. but then we got from michael gove this new definition of extremism which he said was the promotion or advancement of an ideology raised on violence, hatred or intolerance. and that is designed not to ban groups in law to designate them as extremists, and that would then allow the government not to fund them. but michael gove insisted that the government is not intending to restrict freedom of expression or religion and the new definition will not, he said, affect gender critical campaigners, those with conservative religious beliefs, trans activists and environmental protest groups. trans activists and environmental protest grown-— trans activists and environmental protest grows-— protest groups. what was the reaction? _ protest groups. what was the reaction? there _ protest groups. what was the reaction? there was - protest groups. what was the reaction? there was criticism | protest groups. what was the - reaction? there was criticism from across the spectrum _ reaction? there was criticism from across the spectrum and _ reaction? there was criticism from across the spectrum and lord - across the spectrum and lord anderson, the former independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, talked about how this legislation could be seen as too broad and it could be seen as too broad and it could catch people on both sides of the trance debate under the tory right robertjenrick set i like your ideas but this has ended up in no man's land. angela raynerfor labour as a series of pointed questions but she made clear that labour, for the moment, is not opposing this. let us look at that exchange. i want to finish by echoing the words of the archbishops of canterbury and york, and their warnings that, against the backdrop of growing divisions, it is for political leaders to provide a conciliatory tone and to pursue policies that bring us together, not risk dividing us apart. i look forward to working with the secretary of state on this. well, i'm very grateful - to the shadow secretary of state for the constructive, - detailed and consensual approach that she is taking - to what are inevitably challenging and difficult issues. i enjoyed the opportunity to talk to her and other labour- colleagues yesterday. i look forward to working together in the future, . and i know it is the role - of the opposition to challenge, | and the constructive way challenge| has been issued today is something which i wholeheartedly welcome. another matter, rishi sunak decided to rule out may the 2nd. what is a mood in the conservative party? ihla mood in the conservative party? no to mood in the conservative party? fix? to the 2nd of may but a gloomy level at all levels of the conservative party and lots of mps are telling me that the mood has darkened in recent days because they believe the budget has not landed well and they say that the mood on the doorstep ahead of the local elections that will take place on the 2nd of may is described as dire. this is a flavour of what her... what is the atmosphere like, i asked a former cabinet minister. horrific. another, how is the government? what government, it is all over. another told me, the atmosphere is funereal, their herd is moving against rishi sunak. that was the phrase that borisjohnson made when he said he was shoved out by the herd. 0ne senior mp told me that people are losing their heads and they need to hold their nerve until the autumn, by which time the economy will be looking better.— by which time the economy will be lookin: better. . ~ , ., , . looking better. thank you very much. let's talk more _ looking better. thank you very much. let's talk more about _ looking better. thank you very much. let's talk more about extremism. - earlier this evening i spoke tojonathan hall kc, who has just added the title, independent reviewer of state threat legislation to his role as the reviewer of terrorism legislation, and i began by asking him what he made of the new definition. well, it's a very broad definition because, i mean, what constitutes hatred or intolerance is very much in the eye of the beholder. i'm sure the government is acting with the best of intentions, but there is of course a risk it will be seen as a political decision, and an example of that is that the secretary of state said in parliament that he was never going to apply this to environmental groups, and to some extent that's quite puzzling. there have been environmental terrorists. there is no reason why you shouldn't have an environmental group which is hell bent on violence and has an ideology which is violent. today, michael gove in parliament named five groups that he said were deemed necessary for examination against the criteria. how...? do we know anything about how these groups are chosen? no, and that's a great question. i mean, even assuming in favour of the government, that they do meet the definition, there is still a question of why it's actually necessary and what the purpose is of doing it. i mean, it's not clear whether the government is currently funding them, and the government needs to give instructions to civil servants to avoid dealing with these particular groups. i mean, my suspicion is that the government isn't dealing with these groups already, so that isn't clear. i think it's also worth saying that michael gove said that they're going to be assessed, so he wasn't saying a final decision has been taken. i suspect that that distinction will be lost on members of the public, who will hear those names and say, "well, those people are on the list." if the government identifies a group as an extremist group, that could have a much wider impact. and, i mean, i'm still thinking about some of the unintended consequences that could happen. i suppose, thinking about nigel farage's banking problems with natwest, it's possible that the bank might say, "look, this person is associated with a group that's been identified by the british government as extremist, we don't want to allow that person to have a bank account with us." it could affect, i suppose, potentially someone's ability to apply for a job. and it could also have some sort of perverse outcomes. i mean, i suppose someone who was associated with one of these groups, either now or in the future, who was trying to be removed because they are an illegal immigrant could say, "look, the british government has identified me as an extremist, i am now going to be at risk on return to my country of origin. i might be mistreated." but who is actually making the decision? who writes the paper? that's the point. if you say it rests eventually with the minister, is it going to be civil servants, academics, magistrates? who is this expert panel? you know, what does it consist of? i think it's probably fair to say that within my own field, which is terrorism, academics disagree massively about what is terrorism, who is a terrorist, when you should apply the terrorism framework. and i think that's bound to be doubly true of extremism where, i mean, having read a lot of the literature over the last five years, there's really no clarity or certainty about who is an extremist or when you should start calling out someone as an extremist. so i'm slightly sceptical that this centre of excellence is going to produce any sort of quick and transparent results. but with your experience, then, do you think this move is potentially a help or a hindrance in our efforts to combat extremism? i think, to a large extent, it's an irrelevance, and the reason i say this is that there is extremism. there are, as we know, really, really worrying threats to mps and there is an effect on politicians. there are lots and lots of people who are being drawn into extreme narratives, and just today, the government has published statistics showing that the most children ever have been arrested for terrorism offences. but i can tell you, almost certainly, all of those threats against mps and all of those children who have got drawn into terrorism offending did so because of what they found online. and so talking about real—world groups and real world individuals isn't really going to do with that. thank you very much forjoining us tonight. thank you. i'm joined by the tory mp bob seely, who firmly supports the new plans to combat extremism. thank you forjoining us. first of all, you have concerns along the lines of how this would operate? for sure, lines of how this would operate? fr?" sure, jonathan spoke very eloquently and he came out with a lot of reasons about why it would be difficult to make it work or looking at the complexion, the complexity of the problem and nobody doubts this is a complex issue. but one of the frustrations that i think people in this country has, this common sense of anger where they see groups which are anti—democratic or intolerant or which champion violence or champion the segregation of society and they see these groups having access to the police or the home office or funding or some kind of status in society. is that the easiest problem for michael gove to solve? nobody is pretending it is and we have to grasp it and what michael has done todayis grasp it and what michael has done today is an intelligent attempt. i hope it will be successful but i am not pretending it is easy but when it comes to the definition, effectively, i will sum it up. intolerance and anti—democracy, and if you do either of those that i think your life will become more difficult. it will become more difficult. it will become more difficult to access funding. fix, difficult to access funding. a little bit more difficult. this is about individuals as well as groups and you heard jonathan saying there is real life applications for people, for example impacting on either mortgages, jobs, visas, so where is the fairness in that? where is the fairness _ where is the fairness in that? where is the fairness in _ where is the fairness in that? where is the fairness in preaching - where is the fairness in that? where is the fairness in preaching hatred? | is the fairness in preaching hatred? they are already covered by legislation and this is the point. this is different? i’m legislation and this is the point. this is different?— legislation and this is the point. this is different? i'm not sure that is the case — this is different? i'm not sure that is the case and — this is different? i'm not sure that is the case and i _ this is different? i'm not sure that is the case and i am _ this is different? i'm not sure that is the case and i am reading - this is different? i'm not sure that is the case and i am reading up . this is different? i'm not sure that is the case and i am reading up onj is the case and i am reading up on hansford and looking at the debate and michael was saying that sometimes when we might have in the past under either previous labour government or the coalition or conservatives dealt with groups that turned out to be something different than what they thought then they can present one face to the government but in this country, in a mosque or right—wing rally or another country they can present a more damaging... let me put the point that robert jenrick made. the danger of curbing free speech, he says some people are simply expressing contrarian views. imagine you were out and someone expresses a contrarian view, something you do not like, perhaps it is a bit strong, what are you going to do? report them? i don't understand how this operates in practice. it is not like the lives of others. practice. it is not like the lives of others-— practice. it is not like the lives of others. ., ., .,~ , of others. you are taking this too broad. i think— of others. you are taking this too broad. i think freedom _ of others. you are taking this too broad. i think freedom of - of others. you are taking this too broad. i think freedom of speech | of others. you are taking this too i broad. i think freedom of speech is under threat at the moment and that is largely because of the last 20 years when the labour party tried to weaponised language, especially around race. ithink weaponised language, especially around race. i think we are seeing that. with some people on the right, amongst conservatives and pro—israeli groups. seeing why should palestinian protesters be allowed to come out? we find are actions frightening or distasteful. i think we have to hold the line on freedom of speech but what we have to remember is freedom of speech is a right to offend others with your views. there is a line you then cross and what we have seen and what the allegations have been over the years and i have had these letters just like others, where you see people who are quite extreme in their views... people who are quite extreme in theirviews... but people who are quite extreme in their views. . ._ people who are quite extreme in their views... �* ., . , ., their views... but who decides what crosses the — their views... but who decides what crosses the line? _ their views... but who decides what crosses the line? as _ their views... but who decides what crosses the line? as you _ their views... but who decides what crosses the line? as you heard - their views... but who decides what | crosses the line? as you heard from jonathan, it is difficult and there are myriad different views on this. i do not think... this is where i disagree, i don't think it is a difficult and if you look at language and experience, and you can come up with a relatively hard answer by looking at the language of answer by looking at the language of an organisation. pare answer by looking at the language of an organisation.— an organisation. are you concerned about the kind _ an organisation. are you concerned about the kind of _ an organisation. are you concerned about the kind of people _ an organisation. are you concerned about the kind of people who - an organisation. are you concerned about the kind of people who will l about the kind of people who will have to make these assessments? ultimately it is a political decision or will it be left to magistrates and senior civil servants? who will make these decisions? these life changing decisions? these life changing decisions for people?- decisions? these life changing decisions for people? there will be a rocess decisions for people? there will be a process and _ decisions for people? there will be a process and there _ decisions for people? there will be a process and there will _ decisions for people? there will be a process and there will be - decisions for people? there will be | a process and there will be relevant experts. let a process and there will be relevant exerts. ., ~ ., i. a process and there will be relevant exerts. ., ~ ., ., experts. let me talk to you about... offensive and _ experts. let me talk to you about... offensive and racist _ experts. let me talk to you about... offensive and racist views. - experts. let me talk to you about... offensive and racist views. lookingl offensive and racist views. looking at a manifesto or a speech at a meeting, you don't have to be a linguist or genius to spot intolerance and bigotry to others. i don't think that is as difficult as jonathan makes it. don't think that is as difficult as jonathan makes it.— don't think that is as difficult as jonathan makes it. let's talk about offensive and _ jonathan makes it. let's talk about offensive and racist _ jonathan makes it. let's talk about offensive and racist views - jonathan makes it. let's talk about offensive and racist views for - jonathan makes it. let's talk about offensive and racist views for a - offensive and racist views for a man, frank esther, who bankrolled the tories. use that could be considered incitement. should he not be provided with the platform? i thought that his remark was crass and insensitive and... i’m thought that his remark was crass and insensitive and... if and insensitive and... i'm sorry... if he and insensitive and... i'm sorry... if he repeated _ and insensitive and... i'm sorry... if he repeated that _ and insensitive and... i'm sorry... if he repeated that remark - and insensitive and... i'm sorry... if he repeated that remark today, | if he repeated that remark today, under these terms, should he be the platform to? he under these terms, should he be the platform to?— platform to? he is not inciting violence and _ platform to? he is not inciting violence and it _ platform to? he is not inciting violence and it is _ platform to? he is not inciting violence and it is not - platform to? he is not inciting i violence and it is not democracy. that view is disputed, so there we have a view that is disputed by people immediately.— have a view that is disputed by people immediately. look... his remarks were — people immediately. look... his remarks were crass _ people immediately. look... his remarks were crass and - people immediately. look... his remarks were crass and he - people immediately. look... his remarks were crass and he has l remarks were crass and he has apologised and you want a more serious case. apologised and you want a more serious case-— apologised and you want a more i serious case._ let serious case. that was serious. let me rive serious case. that was serious. let me give you _ serious case. that was serious. let me give you a _ serious case. that was serious. let me give you a more _ serious case. that was serious. let me give you a more serious - serious case. that was serious. let me give you a more serious case, | serious case. that was serious. let me give you a more serious case, i was reading this today, dale vince, days after dues were hurt were slaughtered by hamas, he gave his opinion, he is given millions of pounds to the labour party, he said one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist —— days afterjews were slaughtered. man's terrorist -- days afterjews were slaughtered.— man's terrorist -- days afterjews were slaughtered. there was a report that the back — were slaughtered. there was a report that the back bench _ were slaughtered. there was a report that the back bench is _ were slaughtered. there was a report that the back bench is rest _ were slaughtered. there was a report that the back bench is rest of - that the back bench is rest of people are in despair, things are being handled... ester is an example of that. is it fair to say there is discontent with leadership? what you make of that? —— hester is an example. make of that? -- hester is an example-— make of that? -- hester is an examle. �* .,, ., example. lee anderson was not handled well, _ example. lee anderson was not handled well, i _ example. lee anderson was not handled well, i made _ example. lee anderson was not handled well, i made my - example. lee anderson was not l handled well, i made my feelings clear to the chief whip on that. i would prefer a may election because i think the labour party doesn't have a plan, and i think they will be exposed quickly and will panic and if we had a may election. by november, there will hopefully be a third financial statement, down to 2%, we will have a year of age is going up faster than living costs, so there's lots of potentially good news on the economy to happen. —— wages going up. hope the good news on the one well. so potentially a lot of very positive stories for the government to tell between now and november. . ~ government to tell between now and november. ., ~ , ., ., ., , israel's conduct in gaza came in for a sharp rebuke today from chuck schumer, the firstjewish senate majority leader. he called for significant "course corrections" in gaza, accusing benjamin netanyahu of losing his way and urging the country to protect civilians, allow in humanitarian aid and hold new elections. this as israel's military say they're planning "humanitarian islands" in the middle of the gaza strip ahead of the promised offensive in rafah. but there are 1.4 million gazans sheltering in rafah — and so far there is no clarity about how many would be expected to move, and how these "islands" would operate. here's mark. israel is striking hamas in rafah prior to launching a ground attack there. that's drawn warnings from the us. our position is that a military operation in rafah that does not protect civilians, that cuts off the main arteries of humanitarian assistance and that places enormous pressure on the israel/egypt border is not something that we can support. israel now says it is preparing aid but seems set on another major displacement of gaza palestinians. as the conflict started, israel urged people to leave the northern gaza strip. more than a million did, heading for shelter in the south. some of them have since returned to the north. again, after the ceasefire, when major operations in the south started, hundreds of thousands fled the khan yunis area. now, with operations imminent in rafah and around 1 million believed to be sheltering there, israel is urging them to move to central gaza. it's less populated, relatively, and relief camps could be set up there. now the us senate majority leader has asked prime minister netanyahu to call elections and criticised his conduct of the war in gaza. the fourth major obstacle to peace is israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who has all too frequently bowed to the demands of extremists. prime minister netanyahu has lost his way by allowing his political survival to take precedence over the best interests of israel. he has been too willing to tolerate the civilian toll in gaza, which is pushing support for israel worldwide to historic lows. israel cannot survive if it becomes a pariah. the israeli prime minister, visiting troops in the west bank, vowed to press on in gaza. translation: there are international pressures to prevent us _ from entering rafah and completing the work. as prime minister of israel, i push away these pressures. i will continue to push away the pressures. we will enter rafah. we will complete the elimination of the rest of hamas's battalions. we will restore security and we will bring total victory for the people of israel and state of israel. so the relationship between these allies could be sorely tested as the israeli military prosecutes its attack on rafah. we're nowjoined by alison griffin, head of conflict and humanitarian campaign at save the children, and gina abercrombie—winstanley, a former us ambassador and president of the middle east policy council. good evening, both. first, alison, if i can come to you, the idf senior spokesman rear admiral said today, all 1.4 million or a significant amount will go to the humanitarian islands before the offensive. can i ask, is it feasible to move exhausted, wounded, malnourished people in a matter of days to somewhere in the middle of gaza? the answer is somewhere in the middle of gaza? the: answer is no, and somewhere in the middle of gaza? ti9 answer is no, and adding the word humanitarian to something does not mean it necessarily becomes humanitarian. these islands are lacking a huge amount of practical detail and there are no guarantees they will be protected. they are just words. so for families we are hearing from, families with had to flee their home, one family six times, the question is, how do i protect my children? children who have experienced complete psychological destruction and still face death from bombs, and is now because they are only able to leave, some of them, face death from malnutrition, how will they get to these islands? how will ade be delivered?— these islands? how will ade be delivered? :, :, , : :, delivered? that logistic... i mean, it's like moving _ delivered? that logistic... i mean, it's like moving almost _ delivered? that logistic... i mean, it's like moving almost the - it's like moving almost the population of birmingham and more, and people, we don't know how they're going to be moved or what they're going to be moved or what they are being moved to. what in these circumstances would be expected of unicef?— these circumstances would be expected of unicef? unicef, like save the children, _ expected of unicef? unicef, like save the children, like - expected of unicef? unicef, like save the children, like all - save the children, like all humanitarian agencies, know how to programme effective humanitarian action, we have heard about humanitarian corridors this week, a drop from the sky, about these new islands, are costly and inefficient ways to deliver aid, and importantly, they take time, time that children in gaza right now, who are dying from malnutrition, do not have. i mean, this is a war on children, it is a war on their childhoods. forall children, it is a war on their childhoods. for all children, those killed in his reign on the 7th of october, those who were taken hostage of those killed in gaza. —— those killed in israel on that some of october. and those that are at risk of dying today, tomorrow, and in future days, if we cannot amount an effective humanitarian response, and to do that we need an effective ceasefire and unfettered access, meaning save the children and other agencies can get fast tracks across the border, meaning that all the border crossings can be open, and the things that are in trucks can get through. so we have heard examples of neonatal resuscitation kits, neonatal meaning premature babies, vulnerable babies, those resuscitating kits have been stopped at the border. nothing with the word neonatal and it should be stopped getting through to children, to save lives right now, we can't do it unless there is an immediate ceasefire. i unless there is an immediate ceasefire-— unless there is an immediate ceasefire. :, , ceasefire. i should of course say that save _ ceasefire. i should of course say that save the _ ceasefire. i should of course say that save the children _ ceasefire. i should of course say that save the children and - ceasefire. i should of course say| that save the children and unicef are all involved in this, i misspoke. your save the children. there is a question of whether such a move would be legal in international law anyway, can you tell me about whether that is the case? ~ :, , tell me about whether that is the case? :, , , , tell me about whether that is the case? :, , , case? we have seen breaches of international— case? we have seen breaches of international humanitarian - case? we have seen breaches of international humanitarian law, | case? we have seen breaches of i international humanitarian law, and the denial of humanitarian aid as a un mandated grave violation against children, and we can't get aids to children, and we can't get aids to children right now. not only have we not got enough fuel to be able to transport that, the communications blackout mean we can't be effective with operating with our stuff. and of course what it means is, we had seen 20 or so children die from malnutrition in the last few days. to die from malnutrition as a child means that over a period of time, your liver fails, means that over a period of time, your liverfails, your means that over a period of time, your liver fails, your kidney fails, your liver fails, your kidney fails, your hairfalls out, your liver fails, your kidney fails, your hair falls out, eventually you go blind, and you probably die from diarrhoea and vomiting, particularly because of sanitation systems are so bad. these children cannot wait. we need and upholding of international humanitarian law, we need aid agencies to be able to get in, and thatis agencies to be able to get in, and that is why we are calling for an immediate ceasefire. oi that is why we are calling for an immediate ceasefire. of course, the israelis immediate ceasefire. of course, the israelis say — immediate ceasefire. of course, the israelis say they _ immediate ceasefire. of course, the israelis say they are _ immediate ceasefire. of course, the israelis say they are allowing... i immediate ceasefire. of course, the israelis say they are allowing... -- l israelis say they are allowing... —— abiding by international... thank you for that, let's turn to the ambassador. i suppose what the israel are not killed in an offensive in rafah, to smoke out hamas, they have devised a plan they would say to keep more of these gazans are safe, what do you say to that? i keep more of these gazans are safe, what do you say to that?— what do you say to that? i think what do you say to that? i think what everyone _ what do you say to that? i think what everyone says, _ what do you say to that? i think what everyone says, and - what do you say to that? i think what everyone says, and as i what do you say to that? i think| what everyone says, and as your commentatorjustnoted, nobody commentator justnoted, nobody beiieves— commentator justnoted, nobody believes that. commentatorjustnoted, nobody believes that. the united states government, whether it's the president, the secretary of state, the secretary of defence, the vice president. — the secretary of defence, the vice president, they've all made clear that there — president, they've all made clear that there is no longer confidence in the _ that there is no longer confidence in the israeli government backed's statements about their efforts to keep civilians safe. that is why there _ keep civilians safe. that is why there has— keep civilians safe. that is why there has been a call for a ceasefire _ there has been a call for a ceasefire from the united states. the challenge is, of course, is that as senate — the challenge is, of course, is that as senate majority leader chuck schumer — as senate majority leader chuck schumer made clear, that there is a strong _ schumer made clear, that there is a strong recognition that the israeli prime _ strong recognition that the israeli prime minister is continuing this war in_ prime minister is continuing this war in the — prime minister is continuing this war in the face of having a great deal— war in the face of having a great deal of— war in the face of having a great deal of uncertainty about the ability— deal of uncertainty about the ability to achieve those aims. people — ability to achieve those aims. people do not believe that hamas is an idea _ people do not believe that hamas is an idea can— people do not believe that hamas is an idea can be eradicated, that hostages — an idea can be eradicated, that hostages that have been released have been released through diplomacy, not through dropping bombs, — diplomacy, not through dropping bombs, so you have a recalcitrant leadership— bombs, so you have a recalcitrant leadership on the israeli side and also these — leadership on the israeli side and also these pressures on the hamas side _ also these pressures on the hamas side. hamas also must recognise, if they are _ side. hamas also must recognise, if they are going to have a strong accounting when this is over and therefore — accounting when this is over and therefore both sides have reason to not move _ therefore both sides have reason to not move forward in the best way to -et not move forward in the best way to get to— not move forward in the best way to get to a _ not move forward in the best way to get to a ceasefire. that... that needs— get to a ceasefire. that... that needs to — get to a ceasefire. that... that needs to come from outside. i needs to come from outside. suppose in needs to come from outside. i suppose in asserting that the israeli government wants to move a vast proportion of 1.4 million people into these humanitarian islands, if that doesn't happen, then by their own lights, because they want to make sure, they say, that civilians are not killed or wounded, they cannot be a large—scale offensive in rafah, with air support. large-scale offensive in rafah, with air su ort. :, , large-scale offensive in rafah, with air support-— air support. certainly not with the us, no, air support. certainly not with the us. no. that's _ air support. certainly not with the us, no, that's off— air support. certainly not with the us, no, that's off the _ air support. certainly not with the us, no, that's off the table. i air support. certainly not with the us, no, that's off the table. the i us, no, that's off the table. the president— us, no, that's off the table. the president has made it very clear. unless _ president has made it very clear. unless an— president has made it very clear. unless an extraordinary... there's nothing. _ unless an extraordinary... there's nothing, impossible in this way, for civilians. _ nothing, impossible in this way, for civilians, there is not. what nothing, impossible in this way, for civilians, there is not.— civilians, there is not. what do you make, civilians, there is not. what do you make. though. _ civilians, there is not. what do you make, though, this _ civilians, there is not. what do you make, though, this idea _ civilians, there is not. what do you make, though, this idea of - civilians, there is not. what do you| make, though, this idea of creating humanitarian islands? do you hold the same view and save the children, that it's just well—nigh impossible? i believe it is impossible. and i will he — i believe it is impossible. and i will be very surprised to see someone _ will be very surprised to see someone from the us government who are watching from all our various services — are watching from all our various services what's happening, to say that there — services what's happening, to say that there is confidence this can be done _ that there is confidence this can be done so— that there is confidence this can be done. so the israeli government that has decisions to make about what they prioritise, that is important, and so — they prioritise, that is important, and so too — they prioritise, that is important, and so too does the us government. the senate _ and so too does the us government. the senate majority leader has given -reat the senate majority leader has given great space to the president. this is again— great space to the president. this is again a — great space to the president. this is again a staunch ally and supporter of the state and people of israet. _ supporter of the state and people of israet. so _ supporter of the state and people of israel, so when you have senator chuck _ israel, so when you have senator chuck schumer speaking as clearly and as— chuck schumer speaking as clearly and as succinctly and harshly as he has done _ and as succinctly and harshly as he has done today, that does indeed -ive has done today, that does indeed give space — has done today, that does indeed give space and pressure to change how we _ give space and pressure to change how we are — give space and pressure to change how we are providing our support to the leadership of israel.— the leadership of israel. that's interesting _ the leadership of israel. that's interesting because _ the leadership of israel. that's interesting because then i the leadership of israel. that's interesting because then you l the leadership of israel. that's i interesting because then you think that does move the dial, because it will not go unnoticed by benjamin netanyahu, that there has been such criticism by chuck schumer, obviously. i criticism by chuck schumer, obviously-— criticism by chuck schumer, obviousl . ~ , :, obviously. i think the point is for it to be noticed _ obviously. i think the point is for it to be noticed by _ obviously. i think the point is for it to be noticed by the _ obviously. i think the point is for it to be noticed by the israeli i it to be noticed by the israeli people. _ it to be noticed by the israeli people, and that they should understand that while our support is staunch _ understand that while our support is staunch for— understand that while our support is staunch for israel and the people of israet. _ staunch for israel and the people of israet. that— staunch for israel and the people of israel, that does not mean that the us government has to support unwise, dangerous, _ us government has to support unwise, dangerous, collective punishment, as it were, _ dangerous, collective punishment, as it were, from israeli leadership. thank— it were, from israeli leadership. thank you — it were, from israeli leadership. thank you both very much indeed. the high court in london today rejected an application forjudicial review of a decision by the police watchdog, the iopc, not to re—investigate the death of teresa mcmahon. teresa mcmahon was found dead in her salford flat in 2021. at the time, the greater manchester police concluded that the 43—year—old had taken her own life. but herfamily, who have been leading the legal battle to reopen the case, believe that police mishandled the investigation. audio recordings shared with this programme indicate that ms mcmahon had contacted the police prior to her death to report that she had been a victim of domestic abuse by herformer partner. 43—year—old teresa mcmahon, a tv producer from manchester and a mother of one, was found dead in herflat in little hulton, salford, on august the third, 2021. yeah, i'm at my address on my own. yeah. just over two weeks before her death, teresa had spoken to greater manchester police. he's also broke my fingers, broke my ribs, you know, just... just like, generallyjust battered me and attacked me loads. according to a report from the independent office for police conduct, the greater manchester police delayed seeing teresa for nine days due to a resourcing issue. newsnight contacted teresa's former partner, and he denied any wrongdoing. today's court hearing was brought by teresa's aunt lorna, who says the iopc should have required the greater manchester police to reopen their investigation into teresa's death. a former metropolitan police detective sergeant and homicide investigator who's working with mcmahon's family says he's very disturbed by the way the greater manchester police investigated the scene of teresa's death. i would expect the police who had attended the scene, as they were forewarned of domestic violence within that household, to have treated that scene with a lot of respect, insomuch as they should have taken the photographs and preserved the evidence of the ligature at the very least. it's most uncommon not to take photographs. in fact, i would say it has to be done, and i think that's supported by the coroner. in 2022, during a pre—inquest review at bolton coroner's court, the coroner described teresa as "locked in a coercive and controlling relationship" and "a vulnerable individual". the judge ruled today that the court would not grant permission to allow the aunt to go on and seekjudicial review of the iopc�*s decision, nor to re—examine the actions taken by greater manchester police in relation to teresa mcmahon's death. in a statement, the iopc said... the greater manchester police, in a statement, said... well, teresa's aunt, lorna mcmahon, who has been leading the family's legal challnges, joins me now. thank you very much for coming in. this must have been an incredibly distressing time for the family. tell me a little bit about your nice? :, , :, tell me a little bit about your nice? :,, :, , tell me a little bit about your nice? i, nice? teresa was a very bubbly, intelligent _ nice? teresa was a very bubbly, intelligent and _ nice? teresa was a very bubbly, intelligent and witty _ nice? teresa was a very bubbly, intelligent and witty lady. i nice? teresa was a very bubbly, intelligent and witty lady. and l nice? teresa was a very bubbly, l intelligent and witty lady. and she worked for six years for itv as a news editor. she was very intelligent and very sensible lady as well so if she felt that something was not right about somebody, that she was in a relationship with, then she was intelligent enough to make the relevant inquiries, which teresa did. , :, : , :, : relevant inquiries, which teresa did. , :, : , :, did. greater manchester police told us, our reinvestigation _ did. greater manchester police told us, our reinvestigation was - us, our reinvestigation was reasonable and proportionate. what is your response?— is your response? well, they were su osed is your response? well, they were supposed to _ is your response? well, they were supposed to be — is your response? well, they were supposed to be investigating i is your response? well, they were supposed to be investigating a i supposed to be investigating a number of things and one of the questions was, what happened to the body worn footage on the 21st of july when teresa, according to gmp, retracted her allegation and said she did not want to move forward with the allegations of assault? however, that body worn footage was no longer available initially. it was confirmed by the chief superintendent of professional standards that the footage had not been deleted, it was a system error. this was footage that at that time, there were questions of the greater manchester police and what they were saying to alleged victims of domestic violence of pursuing their case? :,: , domestic violence of pursuing their case?- how _ domestic violence of pursuing their case?- how sure _ domestic violence of pursuing their case?- how sure where i domestic violence of pursuing theirj case?- how sure where you case? exactly. how sure where you that our case? exactly. how sure where you that your niece _ case? exactly. how sure where you that your niece was _ case? exactly. how sure where you that your niece was suffering i case? exactly. how sure where you that your niece was suffering from | that your niece was suffering from domestic violence? to that your niece was suffering from domestic violence ?_ that your niece was suffering from domestic violence? to be honest, to reason it was — domestic violence? to be honest, to reason it was in _ domestic violence? to be honest, to reason it was in manchester - domestic violence? to be honest, to reason it was in manchester and i i reason it was in manchester and i was in london and she was in this relationship for about a year so i had spoken to some family members and they were not happy with teresa being in a relationship with this individual. however, after her death, when i was advised that teresa had committed suicide by hanging, i could not believe it. and then i looked into a lot of her journals, obviously the telephone recording, and other evidence... greater manchester police told us that the reinvestigation was reasonable and proportionate. i wonder what you can tell us about the way the police responded to teresa's case? they did call her from an unknown number, and that was an issue quite shallow they contacted teresa on the 12th ofjuly to ask about your application regarding claire's law. that was when she reported the assault allegations. they told teresa that later date that she was not entitled to disclosure because she was not in a relationship with the individual. however, the gmp were actually told tjy however, the gmp were actually told by the iopc that they were wrong and that ex—partners are indeed entitled to disclosure. called an unknown number, that was what her ex—partner used to do, rather than calling around? :,: , , used to do, rather than calling around? , , , ., around? exactly, they said we try to contact teresa _ around? exactly, they said we try to contact teresa for _ around? exactly, they said we try to contact teresa for further _ contact teresa for further information but on two occasions she did not answer the phone. and they could have visited her at her home address or e—mailed her, but they failed to do so and i do not believe thatis failed to do so and i do not believe that is fair and proportionate. what that is fair and proportionate. what is our that is fair and proportionate. what is your reaction _ that is fair and proportionate. what is your reaction to _ that is fair and proportionate. what is your reaction to the _ that is fair and proportionate. what is your reaction to the judgment today? i is your reaction to the “udgment toda ? :, , is your reaction to the “udgment toda? :, , today? i am extremely disappointed. and we will be _ today? i am extremely disappointed. and we will be appealing _ today? i am extremely disappointed. and we will be appealing the - and we will be appealing the decision. that is all i can do, exhaust all my legal options. so i know i have done the best by teresa. part of your impetus is to raise awareness of domestic violence and also, it seems to be that there is a lot the people still do not understand about the way individual incidents of domestic violence, the coercive control, all of that, and that was the case you feel was in her situation?— her situation? timothy brennan, the first senior coroner, _ her situation? timothy brennan, the first senior coroner, could _ her situation? timothy brennan, the first senior coroner, could find i first senior coroner, could find that she was trapped in a coercively controlling, toxic relationship. however, i do not believe that greater manchester police adequately investigated. they seemed to cherry pick parts of the journals that they wanted to acknowledge and then they ignored other parts. for instance, if teresa was feeling a bit down, she would document everything and if she was happy she would document that as well. so i believe they cherry picked and use things like she was on medication or she was drinking too much alcohol. as a reason to indicate that the most likely cause of death was suicide. thank you very much for speaking to us tonight. and the bbc�*s action line is available, if you have been affected by any of the issues in this report and conversation. earlier today, an raf plane carrying defence secretary grant shapps had its gps signaljammed while flying close to russian territory. nick is back. what can you tell us about this incident? it was a pretty dramatic headline when that dropped this afternoon and what it was was that grant shapps was flying back to the uk from poland, where he had been seeing a nato exercise, and he passed by kaliningrad, the russian exclave thatis kaliningrad, the russian exclave that is between lithuania and poland and what that means is that it is completely surrounded by the european union. but it is russian territory and has been since 1945. it was soviet territory and captured by the soviets in 1945 there are lots of military bases and military assets in kaliningrad. the times defence editor was on this

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