the truth is taxes are still going up. people feel worse off because they are worse off. so this morning, we have one big question — in what direction would labour drive the economy? the woman in charge of the party's calculator, rachel reeves, who wants to be the next chancellor is here. the budget promised extra cash to get more bang for taxpayers' bucks in the health service. we'll ask the health secretary, victoria atkins, what difference that will make. and what's it like when your body won't do the amazing things you used to do — the lead singer of del amitri tells us how parkinson's hasn't stopped him taking to the stage. morning, morning. helping me out at the desk for the next 60 minutes, chef and green campaigner hugh fearnley—whittingstall, john lewis boss dame sharon white, and lord michael howard, former conservative leader, and one—time shadow chancellor, too. a very warm welcome to all of you. making the news this morning. the sunday times says boris johnson went to venezuela, and rachel reeves unveiling her big business squad including the former governor of the bank of england, mark carney. the observer and the sunday telegraph trail ahead to the government's plans to redefine extremism. the sunday mirror shows esther ghey, brianna's mother, starting her campaign for mindfulness in schools that she told us about in the studio a few weeks ago. and, finally, the mail on sunday has princess diana's brother, charles spencer, talking about his difficult childhood — he will be with us next week. but what i reckon will be headlines everywhere in the next few hours... this picture released in the last half hour showing the princess of wales and her children, after weeks of frenzied speculation about her health and whereabouts. the bbc�*s daniela relph can tell us more about that now. what has happened here? that photo ou are what has happened here? that photo you are looking _ what has happened here? that photo you are looking at _ what has happened here? that photo you are looking at has _ what has happened here? that photo you are looking at hasjust _ what has happened here? that photo you are looking at hasjust been - you are looking at has just been posted on all of these social media accounts of the prince and princess of wales. the new image was taken in windsor earlier in the week. it is where the princess of wales has been recovering, at her home in windsor. the circle around her has been very small. no official photographer was brought in here. that photo of the princess with her children was taken by her husband, the prince of wales, in windsor. it is an informal image. the princess of wales appears to look well. she often releases a photo on mothering sunday. it was decided this was the moment for her to dip back into the public spotlight. kensington —— kensington paris will be trying to prove what they have said all along, that she is doing well. she wants her recovery largely to happen in private. the guidance on when we will see her back in royal duty remains the same, but is after easter. ., ., , ., ,. ., easter. no doubt that picture, that imaae, easter. no doubt that picture, that image. will— easter. no doubt that picture, that image. will be _ easter. no doubt that picture, that image, will be everywhere - easter. no doubt that picture, that image, will be everywhere in - easter. no doubt that picture, that image, will be everywhere in the i image, will be everywhere in the next few hours. plenty of coverage on that gci’oss the bbc for the rest of the day. the main event last week was jeremy hunt. you are a green campaigner, anything in it for you? an extension of the windfall tax on oil and gas companies. it is full of loopholes and encourages them not to pay the windfall tax by investing further in new gas and oil policy. it might mean something if required investments do not pay the tax were investments do not pay the tax were in renewables. they are not, they are in more gas and oil. while the rest of the economy is flatlining, the net to zero economy is growing, it is at 9% growth at the moment. i have never had the chancellor mentioning that. still less to give a boost in the budget. hugely disappointing. a boost in the budget. hugely disappointing-— a boost in the budget. hugely disa ”ointin. ~ ., ., ~ a boost in the budget. hugely disa ”ointin. ~ . .«r ., disappointing. what did you make of the budaet? disappointing. what did you make of the budget? the _ disappointing. what did you make of the budget? the national— disappointing. what did you make of the budget? the national insurance| the budget? the national insurance contributions _ the budget? the national insurance contributions are _ the budget? the national insurance contributions are the _ the budget? the national insurance contributions are the biggest - the budget? the national insurance contributions are the biggest tax i contributions are the biggest tax cuts since — contributions are the biggest tax cuts since the budget by nigel lawson— cuts since the budget by nigel lawson in 1988. i thinkjeremy hunt did the _ lawson in 1988. i thinkjeremy hunt did the most he could do. we have the war_ did the most he could do. we have the war in— did the most he could do. we have the war in ukraine, these things have _ the war in ukraine, these things have to — the war in ukraine, these things have to be — the war in ukraine, these things have to be paid for. i think you did the most — have to be paid for. i think you did the most he — have to be paid for. i think you did the most he responsibly could. we have turned a corner and i think if we carry— have turned a corner and i think if we carry on— have turned a corner and i think if we carry on on this path and with this plan— we carry on on this path and with this plan we can see more tax cut in future _ this plan we can see more tax cut in future. ., , this plan we can see more tax cut in future. . , ., , .,, ., future. that is what people on the conservative _ future. that is what people on the conservative benches _ future. that is what people on the conservative benches are - future. that is what people on the conservative benches are hoping. | future. that is what people on the - conservative benches are hoping. you are a very senior figure at the treasury. we are about to talk to rachel reeves. what you think the outlet for hermes after the statement byjeremy hunt this week? whoever is chancellor the next election has one of the toughest jobs in the economy, one of the toughestjobs in politics. you compare it to 1997 with tax burdens rising and confirms about public services and also the worry about living standards. when you strip out the effect of inflation, living standards will not have recovered their 2008 level since 2025. that is extraordinary- _ their 2008 level since 2025. that is extraordinary. we _ their 2008 level since 2025. that is extraordinary. we have _ their 2008 level since 2025. that is extraordinary. we have talked - their 2008 level since 2025. that is | extraordinary. we have talked about it a lot in the studio and we have talked about it a lot with our viewers. we will be back to you will any few minutes' time. the main event wasjeremy hunt's budget. there he is with his red budget box — the 15th conservative budget in a row. it's not since 2010 that there's been a labour chancellor — alistair darling. there he was, one of the mentors of rachel reeves. she hopes it won't be too long before she gets the job. let's talk to her about that and what she might do if labour wins the election, which is still an f. election is a long way away, in political terms at least. let's talk about the national wealth fund. the idea is the government would stump up idea is the government would stump up £7 billion to encourage the private sector to start to put money in. you have the former bank of england governor mark carney and the chief executive of barclays. the national wealth _ chief executive of barclays. tue: national wealth fund chief executive of barclays. tte: national wealth fund is chief executive of barclays. tt9: national wealth fund is a key component of our growth plan. britain has never had a national wealth fund before. the idea is to lavage in private sector investment, alongside a government endowment to invest in some of theirjobs and industries of the future, from carbon capture and storage to green hydrogen and steel. areas where we can be a world leader and have good jobs paying a decent wage for britain. start to bring energy bills down and also boost our economic security by boosting our domestic energy security. i am really pleased that what businesses can see is that labour has a serious plan. we are determined to getting that private sector investment. they want to work with me and the labour party on how we can get that up and running if we are fortunate enough to win the next election. :, , ., , are fortunate enough to win the next election. :, , .,, ., election. you said this was about caettin election. you said this was about getting green — election. you said this was about getting green energy and - election. you said this was about getting green energy and jobs. l election. you said this was aboutj getting green energy and jobs. if thatis getting green energy and jobs. if that is what you are really trying to do, why did you ditch your big promise to spend £28 billion a year on that? ~ ., :, . :, . on that? when i announce to cut interest rates _ on that? when i announce to cut interest rates by _ on that? when i announce to cut interest rates by zero _ on that? when i announce to cut interest rates by zero point - on that? when i announce to cut interest rates by zero point 196. i on that? when i announce to cut i interest rates by zero point 196. we interest rates by zero point 1%. we haven't had the liz truss and kwasi kwarteng budget. the damage the conservatives had done for the economy will affect what an incoming labour government can do. i have been working with businesses to look at how we can lavage in private sector investment to do the things we want to do and need to do to get our economy growing. unless we can grow the economy and boost productivity and investment, we have not got a chance to turn round their living standards that sharon white was just talking about. i am determined to be the chancellor that lifts living standards while investing again in public services. you said you had to be honest with people. i know that is what the us want. i am sure you are pleased that the tories took your plan to close loopholes. called non—doms. that decision byjeremy hunt easier to billion quid short for the nhs. where will that £2 billion come from? tt where will that £2 billion come from? , ., where will that £2 billion come from? , . ., from? it is humiliating that in the final budget _ from? it is humiliating that in the final budget of _ from? it is humiliating that in the final budget of the _ from? it is humiliating that in the final budget of the chancellor, i final budget of the chancellor, there have been 15 budget since the conservatives had come to office, it has taken them this long to abolish a gaping loophole in the tax system. where are you going to get that money from? the where are you going to get that money from?— where are you going to get that mone from? ,:, ., , money from? the government made this announcement — money from? the government made this announcement on _ money from? the government made this announcement on wednesday. _ money from? the government made this announcement on wednesday. i - money from? the government made this announcement on wednesday. i am - announcement on wednesday. i am going through all the government documents to identify the funding stream to one of those commitments. that is to reduce nhs hospital waiting list by 2 million a year, additional dental appointments as well as free breakfast clubs in primary schools. we will do that in an orderly way. keir primary schools. we will do that in an orderly way-— an orderly way. keir starmer says, brin: the an orderly way. keir starmer says, bring the election _ an orderly way. keir starmer says, bring the election on _ an orderly way. keir starmer says, bring the election on in _ an orderly way. keir starmer says, bring the election on in may. - an orderly way. keir starmer says, bring the election on in may. he i bring the election on in may. he says that labour is ready. this plan was well trailed. you are not ready on it, are you? the was well trailed. you are not ready on it. are you?— was well trailed. you are not ready on it, are you? the government made its announcement _ on it, are you? the government made its announcement on _ on it, are you? the government made its announcement on wednesday - on it, are you? the government made its announcement on wednesday and l on it, are you? the government made | its announcement on wednesday and it is now sunday. i am doing the work properly and not plucking numbers out of the air. i was methodically going through all of the documents to identify the funding stream so all my friends add up. if there is one thing you and your viewers know about me, all of my manifesto will be fully costed and fully funded, including this pledge. i will be doing the work properly as i always doing the work properly as i always do to make sure my sums add up. willie cut capital gains tax on second homes sales? —— will you cut? the government is trying to do that to provide more homes for people. when reverse that if you end up in power? tt when reverse that if you end up in ower? , :, when reverse that if you end up in ower? l, when reverse that if you end up in ower? i. ., power? if you look at the way the office for budget _ power? if you look at the way the office for budget responsibility l office for budget responsibility funds it, they say it brings in revenue. i will not undo a measure that brings in money.— revenue. i will not undo a measure that brings in money. when it comes to caital that brings in money. when it comes to capital gains. _ that brings in money. when it comes to capital gains, angela _ that brings in money. when it comes to capital gains, angela rayner- that brings in money. when it comes to capital gains, angela rayner has l to capital gains, angela rayner has been facing questions about whether she should have pay capital gains when she sold her home in 2015. the chancellor made a jibe about it in the budget. she said she did nothing wrong. have you talked to her about it? �* :, , :, wrong. have you talked to her about it? : :, , :, ., it? angela is a friend and colleague. _ it? angela is a friend and colleague. she _ it? angela is a friend and colleague. she has- it? angela is a friend and colleague. she has madej it? angela is a friend and - colleague. she has made her representations on this. that is good enough for me. people are ready to move on from that. it is a bit rich from jeremy hunt, who owns multiple properties he rents out to make a jibe at angela rayner, who bought a council house and later sold it. tt bought a council house and later sold it. , , ' sold it. it is very different. one of her old _ sold it. it is very different. one of her old neighbours - sold it. it is very different. one of her old neighbours has - sold it. it is very different. one of her old neighbours has told l sold it. it is very different. one i of her old neighbours has told the times newspaper she is not being straight about it. have you asked her about it? t straight about it. have you asked her about it?— her about it? i have seen representations - her about it? i have seen representations and - her about it? i have seen| representations and what her about it? i have seen - representations and what angela her about it? i have seen _ representations and what angela has said. i have absolute faith in angela. she has been clear, she has taken advice and explain the situation. that is good enough for me. fix. situation. that is good enough for me. : , situation. that is good enough for me, �* , , :, :, situation. that is good enough for me. m :, ., , me. a big part of the labour party lan me. a big part of the labour party [an is to me. a big part of the labour party plan is to really — me. a big part of the labour party plan is to really extend _ me. a big part of the labour party plan is to really extend workers' i plan is to really extend workers' rights. from day one, it gave the same rights to everyone whether they are freelance or someone working part time. can you guarantee the full package will be in the labour party manifesto? brute full package will be in the labour party manifesto?— full package will be in the labour party manifesto? full package will be in the labour pa manifesto? ~ . :, party manifesto? we are committed to the extension — party manifesto? we are committed to the extension of— party manifesto? we are committed to the extension of working _ party manifesto? we are committed to the extension of working rights, - the extension of working rights, including banning zero—hour contracts and getting rid of fire and we hire and having a minimum wage. the local commission will set back. this is a big extension of the rights of working people. if an economy is not working for working people it is not working at all. at the moment, too many people are stuck in insecure and precarious work. we went into the pandemic with 11 million people having less than £100 in savings. that reflects low play and terribly insecure work. we want to change that. we will work with businesses to make sure our plans work for them as well, including probation periods in employment contracts. we do want to make changes. all of our plans are pro—business and pro—worker because they are two sides of the same coin. you have given a clear commitment you will have the full package in your manifesto. that is interesting to hear. let's look at the big picture. you care about every single penny. you have said already, if you do make it into power, you will inherit their worst set of public finances since world war ii. he have said many times you are not going to borrow money for everyday spending or put lots of taxes up. let's be clear with everybody watching, that means after the election, whoever wins, there was basically going to be no extra cash for public services or very little. that means real terms cuts to some government departments. can you confirm today if labour wins the election, there will be real terms cuts to some government spending? tt is will be real terms cuts to some government spending? it is clear the inheritance of _ government spending? it is clear the inheritance of a _ government spending? it is clear the inheritance of a labour— government spending? it is clear the inheritance of a labour government i inheritance of a labour government would have will be the worst since the second world war. i had to be honest, we are not going to be able to turn things around straightaway. we will get to work on all of that. laura, there will be an initial injection of cash into struggling public services. commitments around nhs waiting lists and primary schools. :, :, , ., nhs waiting lists and primary schools. :, :, , :, schools. you cannot tell us how you are spending- _ schools. you cannot tell us how you are spending. beyond _ schools. you cannot tell us how you are spending. beyond that, - schools. you cannot tell us how you are spending. beyond that, we - schools. you cannot tell us how you | are spending. beyond that, we have said we will — are spending. beyond that, we have said we will extend _ are spending. beyond that, we have said we will extend the _ are spending. beyond that, we have said we will extend the windfall - are spending. beyond that, we have said we will extend the windfall tax | said we will extend the windfall tax on the big profits, the energy giants making. we would invest that money on moving to the low carbon industries of the future. the atm business rates on private schools and putting their money into the 90% of children in state schools. taxing private equity boxes to put more money on public services. can you confirm today _ money on public services. can you confirm today that _ money on public services. can you confirm today that in _ money on public services. can you confirm today that in the - money on public services. can you confirm today that in the first - confirm today that in the first couple of years of a labour government some departments would face a real terms cuts? people want to know. i'll be there sometimes feel you are not getting enough information. this is what one wrote information. this is what one wrote in to say, john sinclair. when will you come clean about how you will deal with the abdominal state of our national finances to support public services? can you confirm today if you want to be honest that some government departments will face a real terms cut? that government departments will face a real terms cut?— government departments will face a real terms cut? at the moment, the government — real terms cut? at the moment, the government has _ real terms cut? at the moment, the government has not _ real terms cut? at the moment, the government has not set _ real terms cut? at the moment, the government has not set out - real terms cut? at the moment, the government has not set out its - real terms cut? at the moment, the | government has not set out its plans by individual departments. i will do a spending review quickly if we win the election. that is not possible to do from opposition. i do know public services need more money, thatis public services need more money, that is where we will make the initial injection. the forecasts are based on government plans. the plans of the government do not include our comprehensive plan to grow the economy. 0ur comprehensive plan to grow the economy. our national wealth fund is about bringing in private sector investment, meaning more taxes paid investment, meaning more taxes paid in more money for public services. that will take time, at the moment, you explain, that you want to stick to the same kind of spending rules as the conservatives, you don't want to put up tax or borrow. that leaves people wondering what is the difference between your plans for the economy and the conservatives' plan. here is a question from one of our viewers, plan. here is a question from one of ourviewers, ian plan. here is a question from one of our viewers, ian who we meant when we spoke to viewers in manchester. i'm normally a labour voter, and i'd like to know what the difference is between the conservative and labour's fiscal policy, as i'm not seeing a very clear dividing line, especially since the budget. ian's a labour voter, he is asking you, what is the difference? there is two clear— you, what is the difference? there is two clear differences. _ you, what is the difference? there is two clear differences. the - you, what is the difference? there is two clear differences. the first | is two clear differences. the first is two clear differences. the first is the initial injection of cash and having a proper windfall tax. those are crumbs- _ having a proper windfall tax. those are crumbs. they're _ having a proper windfall tax. those are crumbs. they're not _ having a proper windfall tax. those l are crumbs. they're not crumbs, 1.5 billion for wu— are crumbs. they're not crumbs, 1.5 billion for vat and _ are crumbs. they're not crumbs, 1.5 billion for vat and business - are crumbs. they're not crumbs, 1.5 billion for vat and business rates i billion for vat and business rates for private schools, and closing the loopholes. those are not crumbs. that is real money that the conservatives are not investing today. but second in the end you have got to grow the economy. this is the point that andy halliday was making last week, we need to get people back into work, ensure they have the skills to succeed and boost productivity and our plans are about doing that. the creation of the national wealth fund, businesses say thatis national wealth fund, businesses say that is why people like barclays have signed up. they say there is money ready to go if government put in the right money. reform of the planning system, new homes, reforming the apprenticeship levy to get people the skills they need. some of these things need time. if we can get building homes, one and a half million in the first term of a labour government, that is money going into the economy and if the economy grows, you bring in tax revenues. economy grows, you bring in tax revenues-— revenues. you admit a lot of the thins revenues. you admit a lot of the things that _ revenues. you admit a lot of the things that you _ revenues. you admit a lot of the things that you want _ revenues. you admit a lot of the things that you want to - revenues. you admit a lot of the things that you want to do - revenues. you admit a lot of the things that you want to do and i revenues. you admit a lot of the i things that you want to do and the full impact takes a while. what many people want to understand though is given that you agree with the conservatives on cutting national insurance, you have ruled out raising income tax and you have the same rule to get debt down, which does constrict things, you have admitted that today, what is the big difference between the two parties economic offer? a lot of economists say when you look at it, essentially they're not that difference and the ifs said there is a conspiracy of silence between the two parties, not being honest with the public about how tough things might be. t haste how tough things might be. i have said i'm under _ how tough things might be. i have said i'm under no _ how tough things might be. i have said i'm under no illusions - how tough things might be. i have said i'm under no illusions of- how tough things might be. i have said i'm under no illusions of the i said i'm under no illusions of the scale of inheritance and it will take a while to turn around the challenges that we see and viewers recognise that sharron said it is going to be the toughestjob in politics. but i relish the chance. there is always choices to be made. that is the point and andy haldane said he thought that you should be more flexible about the spending rules, you could make that choice, but you have chose on the stick to the same spending rules as a conservatives. t the same spending rules as a conservatives.— the same spending rules as a conservatives. :, ,, a, ,, conservatives. i worked in the bank of en . land conservatives. i worked in the bank of england like _ conservatives. i worked in the bank of england like andy _ conservatives. i worked in the bank of england like andy haldane - conservatives. i worked in the bank| of england like andy haldane before i became an mp and i feel that the importance of fiscal rules in provide oog constraint in which governments act is very important, you saw what happened when liz truss and kwasi kwarteng tried to circumvent the rules. they undermined the bank of england. i won't do that. making sure that the sums add up and we start to get debt on a down ward trajectory is important. we separate current and day—to—day expenditure from capital expenditure. that is important, business investment is lower than any other g7 economy. we need that public investment to leverage the private sector. if we change our economy... that is why growth is the no 1 economy... that is why growth is the no1 mission of economy... that is why growth is the no 1 mission of a economy... that is why growth is the no1 mission of a government. that noi mission of a government. that is the way we improve living standards and get the money i know we need for public services. tt you we need for public services. if you win, as we need for public services. if you win. as you _ we need for public services. if you win. as you hope _ we need for public services. if you win, as you hope and _ we need for public services. if you win, as you hope and if— we need for public services. if you win, as you hope and if you - we need for public services. if you win, as you hope and if you then i we need for public services. if you win, as you hope and if you then get the economy growing, which is your ambition, what then would be chancellor rachel reeves' inspect if you have £7 billion that emerges, it could be a penny off income tax or £7 billion for colleges or courts. what is your instinct? t £7 billion for colleges or courts. what is your instinct?— £7 billion for colleges or courts. what is your instinct? i want taxes to be low e — what is your instinct? i want taxes to be low e but — what is your instinct? i want taxes to be low e but you _ what is your instinct? i want taxes to be low e but you have _ what is your instinct? i want taxes to be low e but you have to - what is your instinct? i want taxes | to be low e but you have to explain where the money comes from. what got me into politics was education and schools. i went to school in the 80s and 90s, the last time we had a long time of conservative government and we had prefabs and our library was turned into a classroom, because there was more students than space. when tony blair said education, education, that got me involved in politics, because i felt that you had a political leader that were talking about things that matter to me and my family and my life and the last labour government turned around our schools and hospitals. giving all children a good start in life, wherever they come from and unlocking that potential that every child has, but is not realised for enough children, that is something i feel passionate about. we enough children, that is something i feel passionate about.— feel passionate about. we are still alon: wa feel passionate about. we are still along way from — feel passionate about. we are still along way from the _ feel passionate about. we are still along way from the election, - along way from the election, although it is this year, a week's a long time in politics, six or seven months is an age. if the polls are correct and labour wins and you become chancellor. your life will change. keir starmer�*s talked about the pressures on family, whether he moves into no 10. he is concerned about his children's privacy. have you a thought about whether you would live above the shop? my kids are probably _ would live above the shop? my kids are probably watching, _ would live above the shop? my kids are probably watching, so _ would live above the shop? my kids are probably watching, so the - would live above the shop? my kids are probably watching, so the first i are probably watching, so the first time they know about our living arrangements will be when i'm talking to them. i recognise it will be a big change, i have two primary school—aged children. the opportunity to serve is what i came into politics to do. i have been an mp for 1h years and all have been in opposition. i want the chance to do what i believe i can do well to run the economy of the united kingdom. 0ne the economy of the united kingdom. one of your colleagues told me you care so much about not wasting anything, when you go to business breakfasts you get them to take the leftovers back. t breakfasts you get them to take the leftovers back.— leftovers back. i don't think she said nick- _ leftovers back. i don't think she said nick- i _ leftovers back. i don't think she said nick. i don't _ leftovers back. i don't think she said nick. i don't like _ leftovers back. i don't think she said nick. i don't like waste - leftovers back. i don't think she said nick. i don't like waste of. said nick. i don't like waste of expenditure. so when you go to these events there is pastries left, we ask if we can take them back to the office and share them with champions leagues. s —— with colleagues. no waste with a rachel reeves government.— waste with a rachel reeves government. waste with a rachel reeves covernment. . ,, , :, , . are you convinced, or critical? e—mail us at [email protected] or on social use the hashtag bbclaurak on x, or on instagram now too. and you can follow what's happening on the bbc live page. sharon, what was your reaction to rachel reeves. she hinted she would rather put money into services than cut tax, but she was reluctant to show a bit more ankle about some of her plans. show a bit more ankle about some of her lans. , , her plans. interesting the focus on urowth her plans. interesting the focus on growth and — her plans. interesting the focus on growth and productivity. _ her plans. interesting the focus on growth and productivity. which - her plans. interesting the focus on | growth and productivity. which who ever wins the election is crucial. we are going to have to get creative with the partnerships with business and business investment, because there is so little room for any government really. 0f there is so little room for any government really. of whatever political complexion. it is great the hear about talking about leveraging business investment and there is a role for business in public services. we are trying to be the employer of choice for young people from the care system. that was a feature ofjeremy hunt's budget, doing more for younger people from disadvantaged groups. the boundaries between the state and business will have to get more connected. notjust in terms of growth and infrastructure and investment, but public service reform. �* , ,, ., :, , reform. business will have to pick u . reform. business will have to pick u- some reform. business will have to pick up some of— reform. business will have to pick up some of the — reform. business will have to pick up some of the slack. _ reform. business will have to pick up some of the slack. is - reform. business will have to pick up some of the slack. is that - reform. business will have to pick up some of the slack. is that real| up some of the slack. is that real istic, i have heard politicians say that ore over the years. is it realistic that that could be a game—changer? tt realistic that that could be a game-changer?— realistic that that could be a game-changer? it is inevitable. rachel talked _ game-changer? it is inevitable. rachel talked about _ game-changer? it is inevitable. rachel talked about new- game-changer? it is inevitable. - rachel talked about new employment rights from day one for a new government. that has profound implications for business. we are positive about doing more for our workers. you have a lot of businesses, we provide gp and mental health services, because the state isn't as present as it was. i think there has to be an open and honest conversation about how much the state can do and where the private sector needs to step in.— sector needs to step in. michael, what did you _ sector needs to step in. michael, what did you think? _ sector needs to step in. michael, what did you think? i _ sector needs to step in. michael, what did you think? i have - sector needs to step in. michael, what did you think? i have a - sector needs to step in. michael, what did you think? i have a lot i sector needs to step in. michael, | what did you think? i have a lot of resect what did you think? i have a lot of respect for _ what did you think? i have a lot of respect for rachel _ what did you think? i have a lot of respect for rachel reeves, - what did you think? i have a lot of respect for rachel reeves, unlike | respect for rachel reeves, unlike keir starmer, she refused to serve injeremy— keir starmer, she refused to serve injeremy corbyn's keir starmer, she refused to serve in jeremy corbyn's shadow cabinet when _ in jeremy corbyn's shadow cabinet when keir— in jeremy corbyn's shadow cabinet when keir starmer was urging us to meke— when keir starmer was urging us to makejeremy when keir starmer was urging us to make jeremy corbyn our next prime minister _ make jeremy corbyn our next prime minister. the problem she's got and you touched on it in your interview, is that— you touched on it in your interview, is that labour are committed to angela — is that labour are committed to angela rayner's trade union reform package _ angela rayner's trade union reform package. that would make it easier for unions — package. that would make it easier for unions to strike and more difficult — for unions to strike and more difficult for employers to run businesses. that puts the kibosh on economic— businesses. that puts the kibosh on economic group. businesses. that puts the kibosh on economic group-— economic group. sharon said she is ha - economic group. sharon said she is happy about _ economic group. sharon said she is happy about it- _ economic group. sharon said she is happy about it. i'm _ economic group. sharon said she is happy about it. i'm not _ economic group. sharon said she is happy about it. i'm not sure - economic group. sharon said she is happy about it. i'm not sure if- economic group. sharon said she is happy about it. i'm not sure if that l happy about it. i'm not sure if that is what she — happy about it. i'm not sure if that is what she said. _ happy about it. i'm not sure if that is what she said. the _ happy about it. i'm not sure if that is what she said. the private - happy about it. i'm not sure if that l is what she said. the private sector creates _ is what she said. the private sector creates wealth and we need it to prosper— creates wealth and we need it to prosper and we need employers to be s to be _ prosper and we need employers to be s to be able _ prosper and we need employers to be s to be able to run their businesses if there _ s to be able to run their businesses if there are — s to be able to run their businesses if there are more strikes they can't — if there are more strikes they can't. , ., . if there are more strikes they can't. , . : ifit can't. does that concern you? if it is done in — can't. does that concern you? if it is done in a _ can't. does that concern you? if it is done in a common-sense - can't. does that concern you? if it is done in a common-sense way i can't. does that concern you? if it. is done in a common-sense way with is done in a common—sense way with business, employees, we don't call ourselves employers, but partners, having stability and confidence in your employment and in the rights that are... provided by your business, i think that is a potential. business, i think that is a potential-— business, i think that is a otential. ~ ,, :, ., j potential. we know what they're committed _ potential. we know what they're committed to. _ potential. we know what they're committed to. it _ potential. we know what they're committed to. it is _ potential. we know what they're committed to. it is something i potential. we know what they're - committed to. it is something rachel never— committed to. it is something rachel never mentions. it is committed to. it is something rachel never mentions.— never mentions. it is interesting, she ave never mentions. it is interesting, she gave a _ never mentions. it is interesting, she gave a clear— never mentions. it is interesting, she gave a clear commitment, i never mentions. it is interesting, i she gave a clear commitment, hugh you are a green campaigner and you're a member of the green party. you listened tojeremy hunt and rachel reeves, what did you think? t rachel reeves, what did you think? i am a member of the green party. i voted— am a member of the green party. i voted for— am a member of the green party. i voted for labour— am a member of the green party. i voted for labour when _ am a member of the green party. i voted for labour when they- am a member of the green party. i. voted for labour when they promised things— voted for labour when they promised things will_ voted for labour when they promised things will only — voted for labour when they promised things will only get _ voted for labour when they promised things will only get better. _ voted for labour when they promised things will only get better. what - things will only get better. what i'm things will only get better. what i'm hearing _ things will only get better. what i'm hearing is— things will only get better. what i'm hearing is things— things will only get better. what i'm hearing is things will- things will only get better. what i'm hearing is things will stay. things will only get better. whatl i'm hearing is things will stay the same _ i'm hearing is things will stay the same labour— i'm hearing is things will stay the same. labour is— i'm hearing is things will stay the same. labour is got— i'm hearing is things will stay the same. labour is got at— i'm hearing is things will stay the same. labour is got at ruling - i'm hearing is things will stay the i same. labour is got at ruling things out. same. labour is got at ruling things out with _ same. labour is got at ruling things out with some _ same. labour is got at ruling things out. with some idea _ same. labour is got at ruling things out. with some idea of— same. labour is got at ruling things out. with some idea of somehow. out. with some idea of somehow calming — out. with some idea of somehow calming a — out. with some idea of somehow calming a stressed _ out. with some idea of somehow calming a stressed electorate. i out. with some idea of somehow. calming a stressed electorate. they rule out _ calming a stressed electorate. they rule out things— calming a stressed electorate. they rule out things that _ calming a stressed electorate. they rule out things that make _ calming a stressed electorate. they rule out things that make me - calming a stressed electorate. they rule out things that make me more| rule out things that make me more likely— rule out things that make me more likely to _ rule out things that make me more likely to vote — rule out things that make me more likely to vote for— rule out things that make me more likely to vote for them. _ rule out things that make me more likely to vote for them. they- rule out things that make me more likely to vote for them. they have i likely to vote for them. they have ruled _ likely to vote for them. they have ruled out — likely to vote for them. they have ruled out 28 — likely to vote for them. they have ruled out 28 billion _ likely to vote for them. they have ruled out 28 billion on _ likely to vote for them. they have ruled out 28 billion on green - likely to vote for them. they have i ruled out 28 billion on green energy and cancel— ruled out 28 billion on green energy and cancel the — ruled out 28 billion on green energy and cancel the new— ruled out 28 billion on green energy and cancel the new oil— ruled out 28 billion on green energy and cancel the new oil and - ruled out 28 billion on green energy and cancel the new oil and gas- and cancel the new oil and gas licences — and cancel the new oil and gas licences. they— and cancel the new oil and gas licences. they have _ and cancel the new oil and gas licences. they have ruled - and cancel the new oil and gas licences. they have ruled out. and cancel the new oil and gas. licences. they have ruled out pr, although— licences. they have ruled out pr, although their— licences. they have ruled out pr, although their own— licences. they have ruled out pr, although their own membership i licences. they have ruled out pr, - although their own membership voted for it at— although their own membership voted for it at conference. _ although their own membership voted for it at conference. they _ although their own membership voted for it at conference. they have - for it at conference. they have ruled — for it at conference. they have ruled out — for it at conference. they have ruled out working _ for it at conference. they have ruled out working with - for it at conference. they have ruled out working with the - ruled out working with the progressive _ ruled out working with the progressive coalition - ruled out working with the progressive coalition and i ruled out working with the i progressive coalition and they ruled out working with the - progressive coalition and they have ruled _ progressive coalition and they have ruled out _ progressive coalition and they have ruled out one — progressive coalition and they have ruled out one thing _ progressive coalition and they have ruled out one thing that _ progressive coalition and they have ruled out one thing that i— progressive coalition and they have ruled out one thing that i think- progressive coalition and they have ruled out one thing that i think we i ruled out one thing that i think we should _ ruled out one thing that i think we should focus — ruled out one thing that i think we should focus on, _ ruled out one thing that i think we should focus on, because - ruled out one thing that i think we should focus on, because we - ruled out one thing that i think we j should focus on, because we need ruled out one thing that i think we i should focus on, because we need to raise more _ should focus on, because we need to raise more tax— should focus on, because we need to raise more tax revenue. _ should focus on, because we need to raise more tax revenue. we - should focus on, because we need to raise more tax revenue. we must. it| raise more tax revenue. we must. it might— raise more tax revenue. we must. it might surprise — raise more tax revenue. we must. it might surprise people _ raise more tax revenue. we must. it might surprise people to _ raise more tax revenue. we must. it might surprise people to know - raise more tax revenue. we must. it might surprise people to know a - raise more tax revenue. we must. it might surprise people to know a loti might surprise people to know a lot of wealthy — might surprise people to know a lot of wealthy people _ might surprise people to know a lot of wealthy people are _ might surprise people to know a lot of wealthy people are in _ might surprise people to know a lot of wealthy people are in favour - might surprise people to know a lot of wealthy people are in favour of i of wealthy people are in favour of paying _ of wealthy people are in favour of paying more _ of wealthy people are in favour of paying more tax _ of wealthy people are in favour of paying more tax and _ of wealthy people are in favour of paying more tax and a _ of wealthy people are in favour of paying more tax and a wealth - of wealthy people are in favour of paying more tax and a wealth tax| paying more tax and a wealth tax which _ paying more tax and a wealth tax which has — paying more tax and a wealth tax which has been _ paying more tax and a wealth tax which has been costed _ paying more tax and a wealth tax which has been costed by- paying more tax and a wealth tax which has been costed by the i paying more tax and a wealth tax i which has been costed by the green party— which has been costed by the green party could — which has been costed by the green party could really _ which has been costed by the green party could really be _ which has been costed by the green party could really be spent - which has been costed by the green party could really be spent on - party could really be spent on projects — party could really be spent on projects that _ party could really be spent on projects that would _ party could really be spent on projects that would make - party could really be spent on projects that would make a i projects that would make a difference. _ projects that would make a difference. ti _ projects that would make a difference.— projects that would make a difference. : :, :, , difference. a lot of your viewers sa the difference. a lot of your viewers say the tax _ difference. a lot of your viewers say the tax burden _ difference. a lot of your viewers say the tax burden is _ difference. a lot of your viewers say the tax burden is at - difference. a lot of your viewers say the tax burden is at nearly l say the tax burden is at nearly record high hs. people are feeling hard up. t’m record high hs. people are feeling hard u. �* :, ., ,, record high hs. people are feeling hard u.�* :, ., ,, ., hard up. i'm not talking about increasing _ hard up. i'm not talking about increasing the _ hard up. i'm not talking about increasing the tax _ hard up. i'm not talking about increasing the tax burden i hard up. i'm not talking about increasing the tax burden on i hard up. i'm not talking about - increasing the tax burden on people having _ increasing the tax burden on people having a _ increasing the tax burden on people having a hard — increasing the tax burden on people having a hard time. _ increasing the tax burden on people having a hard time. what _ increasing the tax burden on people having a hard time. what is - increasing the tax burden on people having a hard time. what is the - having a hard time. what is the point _ having a hard time. what is the point of— having a hard time. what is the point of a — having a hard time. what is the point of a labour— having a hard time. what is the point of a labour party- having a hard time. what is the i point of a labour party government if they— point of a labour party government if they can't — point of a labour party government if they can't bring _ point of a labour party government if they can't bring together, - point of a labour party government if they can't bring together, narrow| if they can't bring together, narrow the difference _ if they can't bring together, narrow the difference between _ if they can't bring together, narrow the difference between the - if they can't bring together, narrow. the difference between the extremely wealthy _ the difference between the extremely wealthy and _ the difference between the extremely wealthy and those _ the difference between the extremely wealthy and those who _ the difference between the extremely wealthy and those who are _ wealthy and those who are experiencing _ wealthy and those who are experiencing food - wealthy and those who are experiencing food and - wealthy and those who are experiencing food and fuelj wealthy and those who are - experiencing food and fuel poverty and finding — experiencing food and fuel poverty and finding life _ experiencing food and fuel poverty and finding life really _ experiencing food and fuel poverty and finding life really difficult? i and finding life really difficult? only a — and finding life really difficult? only a wealth _ and finding life really difficult? only a wealth tax _ and finding life really difficult? only a wealth tax will - and finding life really difficult? only a wealth tax will do - and finding life really difficult? only a wealth tax will do that. l and finding life really difficult? - only a wealth tax will do that. itli�*iith only a wealth tax will do that. with our only a wealth tax will do that. with your economist _ only a wealth tax will do that. with your economist hat _ only a wealth tax will do that. your economist hat on, something only a wealth tax will do that.- your economist hat on, something a wealth tax be realistic in on the right people say that would drag business away, but when you look at it, i'm sure the treasury has, what effect would it have? ifi if i were approaching a spending and tax review after the election, the thing that worries you is the tax burden is high and getting higher. there is much less willing to tax. how do you do it anyway that is? as a business person and treasury economist make your worry is you do not want to drive the wealth creators you need to support growth and support productivity. maw; and support productivity. many wealth creators _ and support productivity. many wealth creators are _ and support productivity. many wealth creators are on - and support productivity. many wealth creators are on record i and support productivity. many wealth creators are on record to say they are _ wealth creators are on record to say they are happy— wealth creators are on record to say they are happy to— wealth creators are on record to say they are happy to support _ wealth creators are on record to say they are happy to support tax. - wealth creators are on record to sayl they are happy to support tax. there is a website — they are happy to support tax. there is a website from _ they are happy to support tax. there is a website from patriotic _ is a website from patriotic millionaires. _ is a website from patriotic millionaires. all— is a website from patriotic millionaires. all sorts - is a website from patriotic millionaires. all sorts of i is a website from patriotic - millionaires. all sorts of things could _ millionaires. all sorts of things could be — millionaires. all sorts of things could be done _ millionaires. all sorts of things could be done to _ millionaires. all sorts of things could be done to narrow- millionaires. all sorts of things could be done to narrow the i millionaires. all sorts of things. could be done to narrow the gap between — could be done to narrow the gap between the _ could be done to narrow the gap between the very— could be done to narrow the gap between the very rich _ could be done to narrow the gap between the very rich and - could be done to narrow the gap between the very rich and the i could be done to narrow the gap. between the very rich and the poor in the _ between the very rich and the poor in the uk — between the very rich and the poor in the uk do— between the very rich and the poor in the uk. ,, ,, . between the very rich and the poor in the uk. i. ,, ., , in the uk. do you think that is realistic? _ in the uk. do you think that is realistic? we _ in the uk. do you think that is realistic? we have _ in the uk. do you think that is realistic? we have heard - in the uk. do you think that is realistic? we have heard over| in the uk. do you think that is i realistic? we have heard over the ears ou realistic? we have heard over the years you only — realistic? we have heard over the years you only tax _ realistic? we have heard over the years you only tax the _ realistic? we have heard over the years you only tax the very i realistic? we have heard over the years you only tax the very rich. i years you only tax the very rich. these _ years you only tax the very rich. these taxes would go far down the ladder _ these taxes would go far down the ladder. they would hurt notjust the very rich, _ ladder. they would hurt notjust the very rich, they would hurt ordinary working _ very rich, they would hurt ordinary working people. they would hit people — working people. they would hit people who have saved to own their own homes — people who have saved to own their own homes and would be disastrous on our economy _ own homes and would be disastrous on our economy. too many people can perform _ our economy. too many people can perform very— our economy. too many people can perform very many people, wealth is transferable and they would leave the country. the wealth creators, as sharon _ the country. the wealth creators, as sharon has — the country. the wealth creators, as sharon has said, other people we need _ sharon has said, other people we need to— sharon has said, other people we need to make the economy grow. we will need to make the economy grow. we. will be need to make the economy grow. 9 will be talking about tax a lot in the next few months. there is a lot of discussion in the papers this morning and over the last few weeks about the nature of some of the protests in london and around the country. people being on the streets to support palestine. there have been fringe elements people have looked at thinking they are intimidating to some people, particularlyjewish people. as a former home secretary, do you believe it has gone too far? do you think london is a no—go area for jews? think london is a no-go area for jews? :, . , , think london is a no-go area for jews? :, ., , , , ., think london is a no-go area for jews? :, ., , , ., ., jews? unfortunately, this is an area where it is difficult _ jews? unfortunately, this is an area where it is difficult to _ jews? unfortunately, this is an area where it is difficult to get _ jews? unfortunately, this is an area where it is difficult to get the i where it is difficult to get the balance — where it is difficult to get the balance right. the right to protest is a fundamental right in a free society — is a fundamental right in a free society it _ is a fundamental right in a free society. it is also unacceptable that sections of our community think the streets _ that sections of our community think the streets are no—go areas. how do you strike _ the streets are no—go areas. how do you strike that balance? how you try to reconcile — you strike that balance? how you try to reconcile those two sometimes conflicting rights is a really difficult challenge. i do not think we have — difficult challenge. i do not think we have quite got it right at the moment — we have quite got it right at the moment. ,:, moment. the government in the next few da s moment. the government in the next few days will — moment. the government in the next few days will announce _ moment. the government in the next few days will announce some - moment. the government in the next few days will announce some of i moment. the government in the next few days will announce some of their| few days will announce some of their plans and how they handle that dilemma. thank you so much for now. now, imagine if your body stopped responding how you expected it to, every day tasks get a bit harder. that's what happened tojustin currie, the lead singer of del amitri who knew something was wrong when he started having trouble holding his guitar plectrum on stage. he became one of the 150,000 people diagnosed with parkinson's, but carried on performing without saying anything, even without telling his mum. but he's opening up now, in a radio 4 documtary on later today, and to us, when i met him in glasgow. spit in the rain, del amitri. # you can grin, but you can't hide all the emptiness inside one of the nurses said, "you can look at it as being a disease that means you can't really concentrate on two things at once." so things that are automatic, like playing the bass or strumming a guitar, all of a sudden aren't really automatic. you're having to focus on them and say to yourself "don't drop the plectrum, try not to skip." i mean, i wouldn't be able to sit here and play you a song on the guitar, because my hand might... ..my strumming might sort of break down. i love the security of having the band behind me and they have been incredibly supportive — emotionally and professionally. how did it feel for you? one of the things you say in the documentary that you have made about it, is that applause is everything and for as long as you can play well enough, the job's the best one in the world? yeah. now, of course, you can't play in the way that you used to be able to? yeah, i can't play in the way i would expect to. and i know it will get worse... ..at what rate, nobody knows. so i normally have to stop, where formerly, people like me would never want to stop. you know, you wouldn't want to be singing in a pub at the age of 80 or something, you know and being dragged off by your grandchildren in embarrassment. so the idea of having to stop, that's quite grim. one of the things in the documentary is your talk about then how you have been trying to make it work. how you have learned to play in a slightly different way. also how you have had to adjust how you sing? yeah, a bit. can you just tell us about that? it's hard to know which is disease and which is just age. but there's definitely a bit of, i seem to have lost a bit of diaphragm control. so, parkinson's generally makes you a bit feeble and i think that's kind of affecting how i hit the notes. so it's harder now for me to get up there and get on to the note. whereas before i think that was a bit more easy. i mean, singing it never easy and it shouldn't be — singing should be hard. but now i have to really concentrate. # so you're in love with someone else, someone who burns # within your soul # and it looks like i am the last to know# _ can you imagine a life though when you're not on stage? not having dates in the diary, the reality of that is not good. i mean, whenever we are in a position where we don't have something in the future booked, i feel completely rootless. i feel completely at sea, because i don't have that appearance on stage in the future to be the sort of focus of everything in my life. so i'll need to find a... i will need to go and do good deeds or something! what kind of good deeds would you do? i don't know. it feels a moral obligation, because i have led this incredibly selfish life, you know where i got basically to do whatever i want to do for most of my time. i have not had a boss since 1986 or something. so, yeah, i think it's... i'm going to have to grow up at some time. michaelj fox, who everybody�*s familiar with his parkinson's experience, he has talked about actually now he believes it has been a gift to him. yes, i can see that argument. what do you think of that argument? well, it's already changed my personality in not necessarily negative ways. how so? well, you know, any form of... ..i mean disability, you become aware of disability in general. and you become acutely aware of that line that disabled people have been saying for years that there aren't able—bodied people, there arejust a lot of people who are not yet disabled. so, and i quite like that, i quite like the idea we are all going to go through some of these difficulties at some point in life. i'm just more aware of the kind of needs and the kind of space that people need when they're struggling to move about. # you can't go back, back when nobody could hold them...# do you think you have learned anything about sort of human spirit ofjust getting on? you're somebody who has had this massive career, huge energy on stage, huge talent in writing songs that have made millions of people happy and then this diagnosis has made you vulnerable? yes, i understand the nature of hubris, you do feel you're invulnerable until something proves you're not. it's that ridiculous cliche — what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. that's not true. if you lose a leg, you're not stronger. and i am not stronger for having parkinson's, believe you me. i'm very struck though how not just that you're very fatalistic, but actually very positive about it? in bleaker days, it gets on top of you and i'm sure everybody will say that. but there are surprisingly long moments of reprieve. thanks, justin, thanks for talking to us. thanks, laura, my pleasure. and justin's programme, tremolo, is on radio 4 at liz30pm and bbc sounds. now, there is almost nothing that worries voters more than the state of the health service. right now, patchy at best, grim at worst. even the prime minister himself admitted this in a recent interivew. nhs waiting lists. we have not made enou:h nhs waiting lists. we have not made enough progress- — nhs waiting lists. we have not made enough progress. you _ nhs waiting lists. we have not made enough progress. you have - nhs waiting lists. we have not made enough progress. you have failed i nhs waiting lists. we have not made enough progress. you have failed on| enough progress. you have failed on that. as i enough progress. you have failed on that- as i am — enough progress. you have failed on that- as i am a _ enough progress. you have failed on that. as i am a great _ enough progress. you have failed on that. as i am a great yes. _ victoria atkins is the health secretary, in charge of health in england and she's here. welcome. i get it. i have used the nhs since i get it. i have used the nhs since i was three when i was diagnosed with type one diabetes. i understand why people are so worried about it. we have set it as a priority for the whole of government and in particularfor my whole of government and in particular for my department. we have seen waiting lists coming down. interestingly, for the longest waits, they are concentrated in just 15 trusts. as well as tackling the problem nationally, we have made concerted efforts to try to support the 15 trust to get the longest waiting patients had looked after so we can reduce the lists in that way as well. d0 we can reduce the lists in that way as well. ,, . as well. do you agree with the prime minister you — as well. do you agree with the prime minister you have _ as well. do you agree with the prime minister you have failed? _ as well. do you agree with the prime minister you have failed? we - as well. do you agree with the prime minister you have failed? we also i minister you have failed? we also acknowledge _ minister you have failed? we also acknowledge that _ minister you have failed? we also acknowledge that as _ minister you have failed? we also acknowledge that as well - minister you have failed? we also acknowledge that as well as i minister you have failed? we also i acknowledge that as well as putting extra funding into dealing with the electors, we have a recovery plan we are making progress on. we have also got to bear in mind the impact of the strikes. 1.4 million appointments cancelled in the last year. with that background, the nhs has managed to reduce waiting list. from fairly appalling levels. tzierr; from fairly appalling levels. very much. i acknowledge _ from fairly appalling levels. 9 much. i acknowledge that. that is why it is a priority. the much. i acknowledge that. that is why it is a priority.— why it is a priority. the health service is _ why it is a priority. the health service is still _ why it is a priority. the health service is still less _ why it is a priority. the health service is still less productive | service is still less productive thanit service is still less productive than it was before the pandemic, according to statistics. in normal terms, that means it is doing less and getting more money. itrufhat terms, that means it is doing less and getting more money.- and getting more money. what is auoin and getting more money. what is going wrong? _ and getting more money. what is going wrong? not— and getting more money. what is going wrong? not only _ and getting more money. what is going wrong? not only are - and getting more money. what is going wrong? not only are we i going wrong? not only are we investing record amounts, we have more doctors and midwives working in the nhs. taste more doctors and midwives working in the nhs. ~ :, , , more doctors and midwives working in the nhs-_ the - the nhs. we are getting less! the chancellor announced _ the nhs. we are getting less! the chancellor announced not - the nhs. we are getting less! the chancellor announced not just i the nhs. we are getting less! the chancellor announced not just tax | chancellor announced not just tax cuts for 29 million workers, changes to the high income child benefit charge, he also announced a £3.4 billion productivity plan for the nhs. the nhs is our loudest —— largest spending department in that regard, an incredibly important public service. whilst a strong economy helps to pay for the nhs, equally a strong and productive nhs helps a growing economy. i am really excited about these very ambitious plans do notjust gear up basic technology across our hospital trust to make sure doctors and nurses are able to work with the best technology dated but also using ai technology dated but also using al to help with scans, for example, so we are really bringing the nhs into the 21st—century. we are really bringing the nhs into the 21st-century._ we are really bringing the nhs into the 21st-century. there is a repairs backlou of the 21st-century. there is a repairs backlog of £11 _ the 21st-century. there is a repairs backlog of £11 billion. _ the 21st-century. there is a repairs backlog of £11 billion. we _ the 21st-century. there is a repairs backlog of £11 billion. we know, i the 21st-century. there is a repairsl backlog of £11 billion. we know, and we have talked about it on the show before, we have shown images on the show before we can remind people of today. there are hospitals with buckets patching drips quest pudding propping up reefs. don't you have to fix the roof before you start to worry about —— catching drips? fin worry about —— catching drips? on thursday i went to visit a brand—new, two—year—old community diagnostic centre, a surgical specialist centre, in fact, they are a paperless hospital. they use ai... tell us about what has been allowed to develop. you have an £11 billion backlog of repairs in the health service. there are hospitals with wreaths held up by scaffolding and drips being caught in buckets. what happened year after year after year, was it a mistake?— happened year after year after year, was it a mistake? acknowledging the roblems was it a mistake? acknowledging the problems some _ was it a mistake? acknowledging the problems some of _ was it a mistake? acknowledging the problems some of our _ was it a mistake? acknowledging the problems some of our ageing - problems some of our ageing buildings have. the nhs has celebrated its 75th anniversary last year. we have older buildings. we want to modernise those which is why we have the new hospital's programme. tt we have the new hospital's programme-— we have the new hospital's programme. we have the new hospital's rouramme. , :, , programme. it is not building new hositals. programme. it is not building new hospitals- was — programme. it is not building new hospitals. was it _ programme. it is not building new hospitals. was it a _ programme. it is not building new hospitals. was it a mistake. i hospitals. was it a mistake. excessive conservative governments to take money from the part allocated for buildings, for capital investment, as it is called, and use it on day—to—day costs? was it a mistake? many experts in the sector think that is what has gone wrong. we have also had acknowledgement about raac we have a specific programme to try to drive raac out of hospitals. we have also committed this year alone some £4.2 billion to maintenance and infrastructure. fiur maintenance and infrastructure. our . uestion maintenance and infrastructure. our question was — maintenance and infrastructure. our question was whether it is a mistake? th question was whether it is a mistake?— question was whether it is a mistake? . , , ., , , mistake? in fairness as well it is for integrated _ mistake? in fairness as well it is for integrated care _ mistake? in fairness as well it is for integrated care boards i mistake? in fairness as well it is for integrated care boards at i mistake? in fairness as well it is i for integrated care boards at local level to apportion that money to the building, they have my complete support to do so because i absolutely understand the problem to your viewers are raising. there absolutely understand the problem to your viewers are raising.— your viewers are raising. there are so many things— your viewers are raising. there are so many things we _ your viewers are raising. there are so many things we can _ your viewers are raising. there are so many things we can talk - your viewers are raising. there are so many things we can talk about. | so many things we can talk about. you are announcing new money for maternity care. the number of women dying in maternity care has gone up under the conservatives watch. i had been a shocking number of cases, a shocking number of hospitals where it has become a really acute problem. is kent and nottingham, to mention a couple. are you ashamed? i'v e i've prior tides women's health, particularly maternity services. i had my baby on the nhs, i know that the nhs can do wonderful work, but there are also some darker corners. it's got worse. there are also some darker corners. it's got worse-— it's got worse. actually, it is difficult to — it's got worse. actually, it is difficult to talk _ it's got worse. actually, it is difficult to talk about - it's got worse. actually, it is difficult to talk about this, i difficult to talk about this, because i appreciate this day of all days, there will be people watching who have been badly affected by this in their own families. if we look at the figures and it is difficult to talk about figures in such a sensitive subject, but we see that the rate of neonatal and stillbirth is declining. in other words, fewer are happening. we have a clear target to reduce those by 50% in 2025. this is why this package of support is so important, because as well as the tax cuts and the productivity plan for the nhs, we are investing further in areas that we know make a real difference. we are investing in more midwives and rolling out training for 6 thousand staff across england to help with neonatal resuscitation. because that is such a delicate operation and we are helping roll out some significant pilots that we have tried to help with brain injury. because again that is a significant factor that we want to reduce and stop. factor that we want to reduce and sto . _ ,, :, factor that we want to reduce and sto -. ,, :, , factor that we want to reduce and sto -. , ., factor that we want to reduce and sto. , ., , , stop. something else that is very siinificant stop. something else that is very significant in _ stop. something else that is very significant in terms _ stop. something else that is very significant in terms of _ stop. something else that is very significant in terms of pressure i stop. something else that is very significant in terms of pressure itj significant in terms of pressure it puts on the nhs is the subject one of our panelist is passionate, tackling obesity and helping people with their health. hugh you have a question. with their health. hugh you have a iuestion. , , , . , question. yes, the sub'ect is obesity and it i question. yes, the sub'ect is obesity and it is i question. yes, the subject is obesity and it is interesting i question. yes, the subject is i obesity and it is interesting that you haven't _ obesity and it is interesting that you haven't mentioned - obesity and it is interesting that you haven't mentioned it. - obesity and it is interesting that you haven't mentioned it. it- obesity and it is interesting that you haven't mentioned it. it is. obesity and it is interesting that i you haven't mentioned it. it is the single _ you haven't mentioned it. it is the single biggest— you haven't mentioned it. it is the single biggest factor— you haven't mentioned it. it is the single biggest factor in _ you haven't mentioned it. it is the single biggest factor in the - you haven't mentioned it. it is the single biggest factor in the ailing. single biggest factor in the ailing health— single biggest factor in the ailing health of— single biggest factor in the ailing health of the _ single biggest factor in the ailing health of the nation. _ single biggest factor in the ailing health of the nation. treating i health of the nation. treating obesity— health of the nation. treating obesity is _ health of the nation. treating obesity is the _ health of the nation. treating obesity is the single - health of the nation. treating obesity is the single biggest i health of the nation. treating i obesity is the single biggest cost to the _ obesity is the single biggest cost to the nhs _ obesity is the single biggest cost to the nhs we _ obesity is the single biggest cost to the nhs. we have _ obesity is the single biggest cost to the nhs. we have got- obesity is the single biggest cost i to the nhs. we have got approaching three million— to the nhs. we have got approaching three million people _ to the nhs. we have got approaching three million people who— to the nhs. we have got approaching three million people who are - three million people who are lohg-term _ three million people who are long—term sick. _ three million people who are long—term sick. the - three million people who are i long—term sick. the estimated three million people who are - long—term sick. the estimated cost to the _ long—term sick. the estimated cost to the economy— long—term sick. the estimated cost to the economy of _ long—term sick. the estimated cost to the economy of obesity - long—term sick. the estimated cost to the economy of obesity is - long—term sick. the estimated cost to the economy of obesity is £100 i to the economy of obesity is £100 billion— to the economy of obesity is £100 billion a _ to the economy of obesity is £100 billion a year _ to the economy of obesity is £100 billion a year i_ to the economy of obesity is £100 billion a year. i have _ to the economy of obesity is £100 billion a year. i have worked - to the economy of obesity is £100 billion a year. i have worked withl billion a year. i have worked with many— billion a year. i have worked with many agencies, _ billion a year. i have worked with many agencies, with _ billion a year. i have worked with many agencies, with the - billion a year. i have worked with many agencies, with the food i many agencies, with the food foundation _ many agencies, with the food foundation w— many agencies, with the food foundation wjamie _ many agencies, with the food foundation wjamie oliver- many agencies, with the food| foundation wjamie oliver and many agencies, with the food i foundation wjamie oliver and his team _ foundation wjamie oliver and his team and — foundation wjamie oliver and his team and they _ foundation wjamie oliver and his team and they have _ foundation wjamie oliver and his team and they have all— foundation wjamie oliver and his team and they have all put - foundation wjamie oliver and his team and they have all put a - foundation wjamie oliver and his team and they have all put a raft| foundation wjamie oliver and his l team and they have all put a raft of policies _ team and they have all put a raft of policies of — team and they have all put a raft of policies of levers _ team and they have all put a raft of policies of levers that _ team and they have all put a raft of policies of levers that you - team and they have all put a raft of policies of levers that you could - team and they have all put a raft of policies of levers that you could be| policies of levers that you could be pulling _ policies of levers that you could be pulling to — policies of levers that you could be pulling to address _ policies of levers that you could be pulling to address the _ policies of levers that you could be pulling to address the obesity- pulling to address the obesity crisis — pulling to address the obesity crisis. you're _ pulling to address the obesity crisis. you're not— pulling to address the obesity crisis. you're not pulling - pulling to address the obesity crisis. you're not pulling anyi pulling to address the obesity. crisis. you're not pulling any of them — crisis. you're not pulling any of them you _ crisis. you're not pulling any of them. you have _ crisis. you're not pulling any of them. you have done - crisis. you're not pulling any of them. you have done next - crisis. you're not pulling any of them. you have done next to. crisis. you're not pulling any of- them. you have done next to nothing to help _ them. you have done next to nothing to help this— them. you have done next to nothing to help this ailing. _ them. you have done next to nothing to help this ailing, struggling - them. you have done next to nothing to help this ailing, struggling sick - to help this ailing, struggling sick citizens— to help this ailing, struggling sick citizens find — to help this ailing, struggling sick citizens find healthier _ to help this ailing, struggling sick citizens find healthier food. - to help this ailing, struggling sick citizens find healthier food. nextl citizens find healthier food. next to nothing — citizens find healthier food. next to nothing i— citizens find healthier food. next to nothinu. ., citizens find healthier food. next to nothing-— citizens find healthier food. next to nothinu. . , ., to nothing. i have been in post for three months. _ to nothing. i have been in post for three months. i— to nothing. i have been in post for three months. i want _ to nothing. i have been in post for three months. i want to _ to nothing. i have been in post for three months. i want to set - to nothing. i have been in post for three months. i want to set out i to nothing. i have been in post for. three months. i want to set out and i will be setting out a strategy. we make the mistake i think of siloing the obesity by itself. we know it can have many other conditions, including causing diabetes. you will see the government set out our plans. i wants to take a strategic approach to prevention. the biggest intervention we can make we are making, that is creating the first smoke—free generation. that will save up to four in ten cancers that are caused by smoking and with the enormous personal cost.— enormous personal cost. there is a list of moments _ enormous personal cost. there is a list of moments in _ enormous personal cost. there is a list of moments in recent _ enormous personal cost. there is a list of moments in recent history i list of moments in recent history when governments have had the chance to act and they haven't. rules bang multi—buy deals on food high in salt and fat, that will be delayed for another two years. you are reviewing that now. you have delayed a prewater shed tv and online ban on junk food ads. there is a list of moments where you amount acted and decided not to. tote moments where you amount acted and decided not to— decided not to. we have got to reflect the _ decided not to. we have got to reflect the society _ decided not to. we have got to reflect the society in _ decided not to. we have got to reflect the society in which - decided not to. we have got to reflect the society in which we | reflect the society in which we serve and which the nhs serves. this is why i come bhabg back to the productivity, that is investment not just in base sick tech around the wards... in just in base sick tech around the wards... :: . . wards... in 2024 there are fax machines _ wards... in 2024 there are fax machines being _ wards... in 2024 there are fax machines being used - wards... in 2024 there are fax machines being used in - wards... in 2024 there are fax machines being used in the i wards... in 2024 there are fax - machines being used in the health service. irate machines being used in the health service. ~ . . , ., ., . service. we have a plan to deal with this. in contrast _ service. we have a plan to deal with this. in contrast to _ service. we have a plan to deal with this. in contrast to the _ service. we have a plan to deal with this. in contrast to the £30 - service. we have a plan to deal with this. in contrast to the £30 billion i this. in contrast to the £30 billion worth of debt the shadow chancellor talked about that the labour party policies have no funding for. we have an investment on tech and i want us to seize the opportunities of ai and do it in a way that is trusted by patients and clinicians. the nhs app at the moment we have three out of four adults with that app on their phones. that is any tech company would be pleased with that. we have made it, we have expanded it so we can have our repeat prescriptions on this app, that saves us as patients 18 minutes on average each time and gps three minutes. i think that app we can do far more with that and we will be able to as we have begun to roll out talking therapies. that app is the way that we are going to be address some of the issues that hugh raises. we have to take responsibility for our health. we you know as part of the productivity plan we cannot keep throwing, you know investing in the nhs in a way that we are not getting the productivity returns back. we need to turn that conversation around and say, we want to invest in the nhs, but we have to do so in a way that is productive. it the nhs, but we have to do so in a way that is productive.— way that is productive. it may not be much use _ way that is productive. it may not be much use to _ way that is productive. it may not be much use to people _ way that is productive. it may not be much use to people to - way that is productive. it may not be much use to people to have i way that is productive. it may not| be much use to people to have an way that is productive. it may not i be much use to people to have an app if they go to hospital and there are no doctors. you mentioned strikes as being part of the reason for waiting lists being with they are. the juniors doctors are without a deal. will you give them more money. flan juniors doctors are without a deal. will you give them more money. cant will you give them more money. can i thank the will you give them more money. can i thankthe bma... — will you give them more money. can i thankthe bma... will— will you give them more money. can i thank the bma. .. will you _ will you give them more money. can i thank the bma. .. will you get - will you give them more money. can i thank the bma. .. will you get a i will you give them more money. can i thank the bma. .. will you get a deal. thank the bma. .. will you get a deal with “unior thank the bma. .. will you get a deal with junior doctors? _ thank the bma. .. will you get a deal with junior doctors? we _ thank the bma. .. will you get a deal with junior doctors? we missed i withjunior doctors? we missed caettin withjunior doctors? we missed getting the _ withjunior doctors? we missed getting the consultants' - withjunior doctors? we missed getting the consultants' deal i with junior doctors? we missed l getting the consultants' deal over the line. i hope they will feel able to accept it. with junior doctors the line. i hope they will feel able to accept it. withjunior doctors i want to do a deal. what was regrettable they walked out of the negotiations last year, and i want to do a deal. they have to come back with some reasonable expectations. i don'tjust want to with some reasonable expectations. i don't just want to talk about pay, with some reasonable expectations. i don'tjust want to talk about pay, i also want to talk about working conditions, about their well being, because the nhs looks after us and needs to look after its members of staff. ,. �* . needs to look after its members of staff. �* , . ., of staff. the ball's in their court? of course i staff. the ball's in their court? of course i am _ staff. the ball's in their court? of course i am keeping _ staff. the ball's in their court? of course i am keeping the - staff. the ball's in their court? of course i am keeping the channelsj course i am keeping the channels open and i think we have got to some realism as to what the taxpayer can afford to pay. realism as to what the taxpayer can afford to pay-— afford to pay. thank you. hugh you asked her about _ afford to pay. thank you. hugh you asked her about a _ afford to pay. thank you. hugh you asked her about a lack _ afford to pay. thank you. hugh you asked her about a lack of _ afford to pay. thank you. hugh you asked her about a lack of obesity . asked her about a lack of obesity strategy. what did you make of her answer? i strategy. what did you make of her answer? �* . . , , answer? i didn't hear any obesity strate: . answer? i didn't hear any obesity strategy- i— answer? i didn't hear any obesity strategy- i sat — answer? i didn't hear any obesity strategy. i sat down _ answer? i didn't hear any obesity strategy. i sat down with - answer? i didn't hear any obesity strategy. i sat down with jeremy| strategy. i sat down with jeremy hunt _ strategy. i sat down with jeremy hunt in — strategy. i sat down with jeremy hunt in 2018— strategy. i sat down with jeremy hunt in 2018 when _ strategy. i sat down with jeremy hunt in 2018 when we _ strategy. i sat down with jeremy hunt in 2018 when we made i strategy. i sat down with jeremy i hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight— hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight for— hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight for the — hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight for the bbc. _ hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight forthe bbc. |_ hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight for the bbc. i had _ hunt in 2018 when we made britain's fat fight for the bbc. i had to- fat fight for the bbc. i had to chase — fat fight for the bbc. i had to chase him _ fat fight for the bbc. i had to chase him to _ fat fight for the bbc. i had to chase him to get _ fat fight for the bbc. i had to chase him to get the - fat fight for the bbc. i had to. chase him to get the interview. fat fight for the bbc. i had to- chase him to get the interview. late rall ? yes chase him to get the interview. late rally? yes -- _ chase him to get the interview. late rally? yes -- literally? _ chase him to get the interview. late rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. | rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. he physically _ rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. he physically ran — rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. he physically ran away _ rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. he physically ran away from - rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. he physically ran away from me i rally? yes -- literally? absolutely. he physically ran away from me at| he physically ran away from me at one points~ — he physically ran away from me at one points but— he physically ran away from me at one points. but in— he physically ran away from me at one points. but in the _ he physically ran away from me at one points. but in the interview. he physically ran away from me at| one points. but in the interview he said you _ one points. but in the interview he said you can— one points. but in the interview he said you can hold _ one points. but in the interview he said you can hold me _ one points. but in the interview he said you can hold me to _ one points. but in the interview he said you can hold me to account. l one points. but in the interview he| said you can hold me to account. it is our— said you can hold me to account. it is our stated — said you can hold me to account. it is our stated aim _ said you can hold me to account. it is our stated aim to— said you can hold me to account. it is our stated aim to reduce - is our stated aim to reduce childhood _ is our stated aim to reduce childhood obesity- is our stated aim to reduce childhood obesity by- is our stated aim to reduce childhood obesity by 50%. | is our stated aim to reduce| childhood obesity by 50%. i is our stated aim to reduce i childhood obesity by 50%. ijust heard _ childhood obesity by 50%. ijust heard the — childhood obesity by 50%. ijust heard the minister— childhood obesity by 50%. ijust heard the minister make - childhood obesity by 50%. ijusti heard the minister make another claim _ heard the minister make another claim of— heard the minister make another claim of reducing _ heard the minister make another claim of reducing infant- heard the minister make another| claim of reducing infant mortality tiy 50%~ — claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%~ i— claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%. i would _ claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%. i would say— claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%. i would say be _ claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%. i would say be wary- claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%. i would say be wary of. claim of reducing infant mortality by 50%. i would say be wary of al by 50%. i would say be wary of a tory _ by 50%. i would say be wary of a tory ntinister_ by 50%. i would say be wary of a tory minister promising - by 50%. i would say be wary of a tory minister promising to - by 50%. i would say be wary of al tory minister promising to reduce anything — tory minister promising to reduce anything by— tory minister promising to reduce anything by 50%~ _ tory minister promising to reduce anything by 50%. they _ tory minister promising to reduce anything by 50%. they have - tory minister promising to reduce anything by 50%. they have done| anything by 50%. they have done nothing — anything by 50%. they have done nothing we _ anything by 50%. they have done nothing we are _ anything by 50%. they have done nothing. we are half— anything by 50%. they have done nothing. we are half way - anything by 50%. they have donei nothing. we are half way through, 2030 _ nothing. we are half way through, 2030 was — nothing. we are half way through, 2030 was the _ nothing. we are half way through, 2030 was the date. _ nothing. we are half way through, 2030 was the date. 2018 - nothing. we are half way through, 2030 was the date. 2018 was - nothing. we are half way through, 2030 was the date. 2018 was the | 2030 was the date. 2018 was the interview — 2030 was the date. 2018 was the interview we _ 2030 was the date. 2018 was the interview. we are _ 2030 was the date. 2018 was the interview. we are six— 2030 was the date. 2018 was the interview. we are six years - 2030 was the date. 2018 was the interview. we are six years in. i 2030 was the date. 2018 was the i interview. we are six years in. they have _ interview. we are six years in. they have done _ interview. we are six years in. they have done nothing. _ interview. we are six years in. they have done nothing. and _ interview. we are six years in. they have done nothing. and you - interview. we are six years in. they| have done nothing. and you pointed ott have done nothing. and you pointed 0tt there _ have done nothing. and you pointed 0tt there is — have done nothing. and you pointed 0tt there is a — have done nothing. and you pointed ott there is a raft _ have done nothing. and you pointed ott there is a raft of— have done nothing. and you pointed ott there is a raft of policy- have done nothing. and you pointed ott there is a raft of policy leader i ott there is a raft of policy leader they could — ott there is a raft of policy leader they could be _ ott there is a raft of policy leader they could be pulling. _ ott there is a raft of policy leader they could be pulling. if- ott there is a raft of policy leader they could be pulling. if they i ott there is a raft of policy leaderi they could be pulling. if they were serious _ they could be pulling. if they were serious about _ they could be pulling. if they were serious about tackling _ they could be pulling. if they were serious about tackling obesity i they could be pulling. if they were| serious about tackling obesity they would _ serious about tackling obesity they would be _ serious about tackling obesity they would be pulling _ serious about tackling obesity they would be pulling all— serious about tackling obesity they would be pulling all of— serious about tackling obesity they would be pulling all of them. - serious about tackling obesity they would be pulling all of them. i.iitt�*elll would be pulling all of them. well she is promising _ would be pulling all of them. well she is promising a _ would be pulling all of them. she is promising a prevention policy. i she is promising a prevention oli . �* ., she is promising a prevention policy-_ our - she is promising a prevention policy._ our main | she is promising a prevention i policy._ our main quest policy. i can't wait. our main quest was to talk— policy. i can't wait. our main quest was to talk about _ policy. i can't wait. our main quest was to talk about the _ policy. i can't wait. our main quest was to talk about the economy i policy. i can't wait. our main quest was to talk about the economy and j policy. i can't wait. our main quest i was to talk about the economy and we askedif was to talk about the economy and we asked if labour's sums added up. you have been getting in touch. if you were in their position, you is have a lot of experience being in government and understand the economy likely better than the politicians, what is the one thing that you would do if you were in their shoes? that you would do if you were in theirshoes? i that you would do if you were in their shoes?— that you would do if you were in their shoes? i think with so little mone to their shoes? i think with so little money to spend. _ their shoes? i think with so little money to spend, probably i their shoes? i think with so little money to spend, probably the i their shoes? i think with so little i money to spend, probably the biggest thing i would do is tackle planning. planning reform.— planning reform. planning reform. cross party — planning reform. planning reform. cross party consensus. _ planning reform. planning reform. cross party consensus. you - planning reform. planning reform. cross party consensus. you need l planning reform. planning reform. | cross party consensus. you need to do it early. you've got to take bravery and courage. but to get britain building again and homes for our young people, that is what i would come out on day one. politicians always mention this, and thenit politicians always mention this, and then it runs into the sand when their own mps and their own members don't like what it means for them in real life? , , ., , . real life? yes it is a difficult issue. i think— real life? yes it is a difficult issue. i think productivity i real life? yes it is a difficult issue. i think productivity is} real life? yes it is a difficult - issue. i think productivity is the key to— issue. i think productivity is the key to this _ issue. i think productivity is the key to this. as victoria was saying. we can't _ key to this. as victoria was saying. we can't keep on putting more and more _ we can't keep on putting more and more taxpayers' money into public services _ more taxpayers' money into public services without improved performance. i listened to an interview _ performance. i listened to an interview last week with abbie tierney. — interview last week with abbie tierney, who turned around the passport — tierney, who turned around the passport office and now has gone to welsh _ passport office and now has gone to welsh rugby and i hope she does for them _ welsh rugby and i hope she does for them what _ welsh rugby and i hope she does for them what she did for the passport office _ them what she did for the passport office she — them what she did for the passport office. she made it clear there is scope _ office. she made it clear there is scope for— office. she made it clear there is scope for improvements in productivity across our public services _ productivity across our public services. they can do much more than thev're _ services. they can do much more than they're doing — services. they can do much more than they're doing. if the rest of our schools — they're doing. if the rest of our schools, hospitals and police forces operated _ schools, hospitals and police forces operated in the same way as the best, _ operated in the same way as the best. theh — operated in the same way as the best, then that could be transformational.- best, then that could be transformational. why is it so atch . transformational. why is it so patchy- i _ transformational. why is it so patchy- i have _ transformational. why is it so patchy. i have heard - transformational. why is it so l patchy. i have heard politicians talk about productivity forever. it talk about productivity forever. it is difficult. that is why i was heartened by the amount of money the charrcettor— heartened by the amount of money the chancellor made available to improve productivity in the health service. that is— productivity in the health service. that is a — productivity in the health service. that is a real game—changer. if we can do— that is a real game—changer. if we can do that — that is a real game—changer. if we can do that across our public services. _ can do that across our public services, they will be transformed. hugh— services, they will be transformed. hugh you're no fan of the big parties, but is there a point here actually what we have to do, what everyone has to do, is have a proper good look at spending money more wisely and being more careful with it? of course and half of that is spending — it? of course and half of that is spending it— it? of course and half of that is spending it oh— it? of course and half of that is spending it on the _ it? of course and half of that is spending it on the green- it? of course and half of that is - spending it on the green economy. we have to _ spending it on the green economy. we have to make — spending it on the green economy. we have to make that _ spending it on the green economy. we have to make that transition _ spending it on the green economy. we have to make that transition and - spending it on the green economy. we have to make that transition and the l have to make that transition and the longer— have to make that transition and the longer we _ have to make that transition and the longer we leave _ have to make that transition and the longer we leave it _ have to make that transition and the longer we leave it the _ have to make that transition and the longer we leave it the more - longer we leave it the more expensive _ longer we leave it the more expehsive it— longer we leave it the more expensive it will— longer we leave it the more expensive it will get. - longer we leave it the more expensive it will get. if- longer we leave it the more expensive it will get. if any| longer we leave it the more - expensive it will get. if any sector is wise _ expensive it will get. if any sector is wise to— expensive it will get. if any sector is wise to spend _ expensive it will get. if any sector is wise to spend on _ expensive it will get. if any sector is wise to spend on is _ expensive it will get. if any sector is wise to spend on is the - is wise to spend on is the transition _ is wise to spend on is the transition to— is wise to spend on is the transition to the - is wise to spend on is the transition to the green i is wise to spend on is the - transition to the green economy. labour— transition to the green economy. labour has — transition to the green economy. labour has shrunk _ transition to the green economy. labour has shrunk back- transition to the green economy. labour has shrunk back from - transition to the green economy. labour has shrunk back from it. i labour has shrunk back from it. sharon. — labour has shrunk back from it. sharon. johh _ labour has shrunk back from it. sharon, john lewis _ labour has shrunk back from it. sharon, john lewis results - labour has shrunk back from it. sharon, john lewis results thisl sharon, john lewis results this week, you have had a tricky time there, the results, are you optimistic? back in the black? i’m optimistic? back in the black? i'm feelin: optimistic? back in the black? in feeling hopeful, we are making progress. jab feeling hopeful, we are making rouress. , w. . feeling hopeful, we are making rouress. , .,,. ,., feeling hopeful, we are making progress. job cuts on the horizon? you talked — progress. job cuts on the horizon? you talked of _ progress. job cuts on the horizon? you talked of bold _ progress. job cuts on the horizon? you talked of bold changes. - progress. job cuts on the horizon? you talked of bold changes. it - progress. job cuts on the horizon? you talked of bold changes. it is l you talked of bold changes. it is interesting _ you talked of bold changes. it is interesting the _ you talked of bold changes. it 3 interesting the conversation about public services and productivity and it is something every business is doing. we are trying to simplify the way we work, so our amazing partners have got more time in front of customers. have got more time in front of customers— have got more time in front of customers. ~ ., ., customers. we have en'oyed having all three of you h customers. we have en'oyed having all three of you give _ customers. we have en'oyed having all three of you give us- customers. we have enjoyed having all three of you give us your- customers. we have enjoyed having all three of you give us your time. l a huge thank you to my panel, a huge thank you to you of course for watching and thanks too for sending in your questions. the main political parties might not share the same instincts, but they do right now share the same big picture view that they have to stick to spending limits that mean more years when public services are squeezed. we heard rachel reeves tell us that a labour government won't be able to do everything they want to do straightaway. and she stressed her promise above all else to keep track of the cheque book. but she knows the tories will be watching herfor any hint of stray pennies. you can watch our interview or aything else again on iplayer — catch more on newscast later on bbc sounds, or i'll look forward to seeing you next week. and happy mother's day to everybody watching. goodbye for now. live from jerusalem, i'm anna foster with the very latest developments on the israel gaza war. the us military says an army logistics ship carrying parts for a temporary floating pier is heading to gaza, as part of plans to deliver humanitarian aid by sea. separately, a spanish charity says a ship carrying 200 tonnes of food for gaza is ready to depart from cyprus. live from london. i am lucy grey. prince william posts a picture of his wife kate and their children for mother's day. it's the first image of the princess of wales since she took time away from royal duties because of abdominal surgery. labour's shadow chancellor rachel reeves warns the bbc�*s laura kuenssberg that her party is inheriting the worst economic situation since the second world war. i have to be honest, we are