More Free Childcare. Bridget phillipson, for labour, reckons that plan doesnt add up. And another parent, another child Mariano Janin� s daughter, mia, took her own life after being bullied online and at school. Well hear how he wants to prevent other parents� heartbreak. Morning, morning welcome to you, and welcome to my team at the desk for the next hour. Sir rocco forte, Legendary Hotelier and conservative donor, at least until recently. Vicky spratt, writer and housing campaigner, and andy haldane now one of the wise heads on the governments Economic Advisory council, who was the Chief Economist at the Bank Of England. It isa it is a big week for the government, a big few days forjeremy hunt, the chancellor, who is with us. Jeremy hunt, you are apparently managing to squeeze in Marathon Training whilst having one of the biggestjobs in politics, how do you do that . Bridget, are you warming up alongside . I bridget, are you warming up alongside . Bridget, are you warming up alonaside . ,. , alongside . I did 17 miles on friday but nothing alongside . I did 17 miles on friday but nothing will alongside . I did 17 miles on friday but nothing will be alongside . I did 17 miles on friday but nothing will be for alongside . I did 17 miles on friday but nothing will be for the alongside . I did 17 miles on friday| but nothing will be for the budget. Bridget, are you fitting in exercise . Bridget, are you fitting in exercise . �. ~. , exercise . Im a keen runner, i was la in exercise . Im a keen runner, i was playing hockey exercise . Im a keen runner, i was playing Hockey Yesterday exercise . Im a keen runner, i was playing Hockey Yesterday so exercise . Im a keen runner, i was playing Hockey Yesterday so i exercise . Im a keen runner, i was playing Hockey Yesterday so i like l playing Hockey Yesterday so i like to keep playing Hockey Yesterday so i like to keep in playing Hockey Yesterday so i like to keep in sport too. Xlfery to keep in sport too. Very impressive, to keep in sport too. Very impressive, well to keep in sport too. Very impressive, well see to keep in sport too. Very| impressive, well see what to keep in sport too. Impressive, well see what Political Support we have in the studio this morning. There is tonnes in this mornings news, of course, looking ahead to the budget. The sunday times, the observer, the Sunday Express all splash on tax cuts, a good thing, or a bad. In the sunday telegraph, jeremy hunts declaring war on waste. A pretty familiar promise from ministers, but well hear what he has up his sleeve in a few minutes time. And theres a royal double act on two of the tabloids. The Sunday Mirror has another story about prince Andrews Links with jeffrey epstein. The Sun On Sunday says the queens off on a break. Jeremy hunt, our main event this morning. Andy haldane, you have observed, watched, so many of these events. What do you want to hear from jeremy hunt today . Events. What do you want to hear from jeremy hunt today . Well, what i would love to from jeremy hunt today . Well, what i would love to hear from jeremy hunt today . Well, what i would love to hear is the from jeremy hunt today . Well, what i would love to hear is the fiscal would love to hear is the fiscal rules might be tweaked. They are Stunting Growth for me, right now. I think that probably wont happen, ewan wont hear that from jeremy today so the most pressing thing actually is the Funding Crisis facing local crises right now the Funding Crisis facing local councils right now. Funding crisis facing local councils riaht now. V Funding Crisis facing local councils riaht now. � , right now. Thats interesting because when right now. Thats interesting because when you right now. Thats interesting because when you say right now. Thats interesting because when you say the l right now. Thats interesting. Because when you say the fiscal rules, you mean basically the limits the government puts on itself in order to be able to show that they are trying to pay down the countrys debt over the long term. You think they are harming it right now . I think the debt rule in particular is overly constraining our capacity to invest as a nation and therefore grow tomorrow, yeah. Invest as a nation and therefore grow tomorrow, yeah. Rocco, What Would Ou Grow tomorrow, yeah. Rocco, what would you like grow tomorrow, yeah. Rocco, what would you like the grow tomorrow, yeah. Rocco, what would you like the chancellor grow tomorrow, yeah. Rocco, what would you like the chancellor to. Grow tomorrow, yeah. Rocco, what. Would you like the chancellor to do . I agree completely with the fiscal, the five i agree completely with the fiscal, the five year rule is nonsense. We should the five year rule is nonsense. We should he the five year rule is nonsense. We should be looking at a much longer period should be looking at a much longer period in should be looking at a much longer period in the economy. This was brought period in the economy. This was brought in period in the economy. This was brought in with the Maastricht Treaty brought in with the Maastricht Treaty and something that every country treaty and something that every country in treaty and something that every country in the European Union has continued country in the European Union has continued to break stop we are no longer continued to break stop we are no longer in continued to break stop we are no longer in the European Union, we no longer longer in the European Union, we no longer need longer in the European Union, we no longer need to follow it. The budget is about longer need to follow it. The budget is about putting things out of a hat which is about putting things out of a hat which i is about putting things out of a hat which i dont like, it should be about which i dont like, it should be about creating a long term view of how to about creating a long term view of how to grow the economy. One quick window how to grow the economy. One quick window would be the tourist tax, abolishing the tourist tax, which is costing abolishing the tourist tax, which is costing the abolishing the tourist tax, which is costing the economy about £11 billion costing the economy about £11 billion a costing the economy about £11 billion a year and also the treasury £2. 5 billion a year and also the treasury £25 million billion a year and also the treasury £2. 5 million a year. The Short Sightedness of the treasury and the Short Sightedness of the treasury and the obr is stopping this happening. We and the obr is stopping this happening and the obr is stopping this happening. And the obr is stopping this haueninu. ~ ,. , happening. We will see what the chancellor says happening. We will see what the chancellor says about happening. We will see what the chancellor says about that happening. We will see what the chancellor says about that for i happening. We will see what the l chancellor says about that for you and other businesses campaigning on that so tourists could get duty free to encourage them to shop in the uk. Vicky, what would you like to hear jeremy hunt say today . Vicky, what would you like to hear jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what he jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what he may jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what he may or jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what he may or may jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what he may or may not jeremy hunt say today . Weve heard a lot about what he may or may not say| lot about what he may or may not say is people lot about what he may or may not say is people in lot about what he may or may not say is people in westminster lot about what he may or may not say is people in westminster keep is people in westminster keep briefing is people in westminster keep briefing against is people in westminster keep briefing against each is people in westminster keep briefing against each other is people in westminster keep briefing against each other ori briefing against each other or perhaps briefing against each other or perhaps they briefing against each other or perhaps they are briefing against each other or perhaps they are testing briefing against each other or perhaps they are testing policies, i dont perhaps they are testing policies, i dont know. Perhaps they are testing policies, i dont know. But perhaps they are testing policies, i dont know, but i perhaps they are testing policies, i dont know, but i have perhaps they are testing policies, i dont know, but i have to perhaps they are testing policies, i dont know, but i have to agree perhaps they are testing policies, i i dont know, but i have to agree with rocco dont know, but i have to agree with rocco and dont know, but i have to agree with rocco and andy, dont know, but i have to agree with rocco and andy, the dont know, but i have to agree with rocco and andy, the debt dont know, but i have to agree with rocco and andy, the debt rule dont know, but i have to agree with rocco and andy, The Debt Rule Is Rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming us rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming us and rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming us and id rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming us and id like rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming us and id like to rocco and andy, the debt rule is harming us and id like to hear. Harming us and id like to hear about harming us and id like to hear about some harming us and id like to hear about some spending, harming us and id like to hear about some spending, particularly in infrastructure about some spending, particularly in infrastructure and about some spending, particularly in infrastructure and housing. About some spending, particularly in infrastructure and housing. As about some spending, particularly in infrastructure and housing. As part l infrastructure and housing. As part of my infrastructure and housing. As part of my Work Infrastructure and housing. As part of my work i infrastructure and housing. As part of my work i travel infrastructure and housing. As part of my work i travel around infrastructure and housing. As part of my work i travel around the of my work i travel around the country of my work i travel around the country. People of my work i travel around the country. People cannot of my work i travel around the country. People cannot afford| of my work i travel around the. Country. People cannot afford to of my work i travel around the country. People cannot afford to pay their rent~ country. People cannot afford to pay their rent. There country. People cannot afford to pay their rent. There are country. People cannot afford to pay their rent. There are homeless their rent. There are homeless families, their rent. There are homeless families, the their rent. There are homeless families, the number their rent. There are homeless families, the number of their rent. There are homeless families, the number of whichi their rent. There are homeless i families, the number of which are rising families, the number of which are rising if families, the number of which are rising if we families, the number of which are rising. If we had families, the number of which are rising. If we had enough families, the number of which are rising. If we had enough social rising. If we had enough Social Housing rising. If we had enough Social Housing we rising. If we had enough Social Housing we wouldnt rising. If we had enough Social Housing we wouldnt have rising. If we had enough Social Housing we wouldnt have thati housing we wouldnt have that problem housing we wouldnt have that problem and housing we wouldnt have that problem and we housing we wouldnt have that problem and we wouldnt housing we wouldnt have that problem and we wouldnt be l housing we wouldnt have that problem and we wouldnt be spending so much problem and we wouldnt be spending so much on problem and we wouldnt be spending so much on housing problem and we wouldnt be spending so much on housing them problem and we wouldnt be spending so much on housing them and problem and we wouldnt be spending so much on housing them and that. So much on housing them and that wouldnt so much on housing them and that wouldnt be so much on housing them and that wouldnt be bankrupting so much on housing them and that wouldnt be bankrupting local wouldnt be bankrupting local councils wouldnt be bankrupting local councils. , wouldnt be bankrupting local councils. ,. , councils. 0k, all three of you, thank you. Councils. 0k, all three of you, thank you. You councils. 0k, all three of you, thank you, you are councils. 0k, all three of you, thank you, you are not councils. 0k, all three of you, thank you, you are not from i councils. 0k, all three of you, i thank you, you are not from the councils. 0k, all three of you, thank you, you are not from the same political spectrum but you all agree the rules the government is living by, its time to have a look at them. What the chancellor has been briefing, hinting yes and no, its about tax cuts. Since the turn of the year that has been something of a political pantomime over whether or not the government is going to find the cash to cut taxes. Jeremy hunt compared himself to such as tax cutting chancellor nigel lawson at the beginning of the year, in january, but by february he was sounding a little bit less sure. It doesnt look to me like we will have the same scope for cutting taxes in the same scope for cutting taxes in the Spring Budget that we had in the Autumn Statement and so i need to set people possum expectations about the scale of what im doing. In set people possum expectations about the scale of what im doing. The scale of what im doing. In this month there the scale of what im doing. In this month there were the scale of what im doing. In this month there were suggestions the scale of what im doing. In this month there were suggestions number ten andy levin might be stuck in a tussle over tax. Number ten and number 11 tussle over tax. Number ten and number might be tussle over tax. Number ten and number 11 might be stuck in a tussle over tax. You said you wanted to under promise and over deliver. You said a while ago the economy was at a Turning Point but now it seems we are in recession and you dangled those chunky tax cuts, but now you are telling us there is no easy path. Do you feel a bit silly that you went too far in nudging people that tax cuts might be on the way . Well, first of all i think youll ask me about lots of specific taxes, the tourist tax that rocco is campaigning very effectively on, non dons or National Insurance and i cant talk about specific taxes ahead of the budget. But in terms of under promising and over delivering, when rishi sunak and i took over, inflation was ii , its gone down to 4 , its inflation was ii , its gone down to ii , its fallen much faster than many people predicted. The Bank Of England said we would have the longest recession in 100 years at that time and in fact its been much more healthy although weve just tipped into a technical recession, so i think the economy has been much, much more resilient than people predicted and. B, much, much more resilient than people predicted and. B. Lat much, much more resilient than people predicted and. People predicted and. A lot of eole people predicted and. A lot of people watching people predicted and. A lot of people watching think people predicted and. A lot of people watching think theyve i people predicted and. A lot of l people watching think theyve had people predicted and. A lot of people watching think theyve had a very hard time but im asking about the specific message over the last few months that you were eager to do tax cuts and now actually you have less money to spend than you hoped. Was it a mistake to race peoples expectations . Was it a mistake to race peoples expectations . Was it a mistake to race peoples exectations . , ,. , � expectations . No, because what weve been sa in expectations . No, because what weve been saying very expectations . No, because what weve been saying very clearly expectations . No, because what weve been saying very clearly is expectations . No, because what weve been saying very clearly is when expectations . No, because what weve been saying very clearly is when we been saying very clearly is when we look around the world the economies that are growing fastest, whether its north america or asia, tend to be the ones with lower taxes and we want that to be the case for the uk as well, but weve always said im weve been very consistent, we would only cut taxes in a way that was responsible and prudent and if i may say the most un conservative thing i could do would be to cut taxes by increasing borrowing, because that isjust increasing borrowing, because that is just cutting taxes and saying that future generations have to pick up that future generations have to pick up the tax up. I wont do that. But i do want, where it is possible to do so responsibly, to move towards a lower tax economy and i hope to show a path in that direction, but this will be a prudent and responsible budget for long term growth, tackling inflation, more investment, morejobs, and that tackling inflation, more investment, more jobs, and that path to lower taxation as and when we can afford it. You have said also the forecast from the obr, the economic watchdog that marks your homework, you have said the numbers have gone against us. ,. ,. , ~. , us. The picture is bleaker than it was at the us. The picture is bleaker than it was at the beginning us. The picture is bleaker than it was at the beginning of us. The picture is bleaker than it was at the beginning of the us. The picture is bleaker than it| was at the beginning of the year. Why are you looking to cut tax now at all . ~ , why are you looking to cut tax now atall . ,. , why are you looking to cut tax now atall . ,. ,. , at all . Well, these forecasts change the whole time. At all . Well, these forecasts change the whole time. What at all . Well, these forecasts change the whole time. What happened at all . Well, these forecasts change the whole time. What happened in l at all . Well, these forecasts change i the whole time. What happened in the autumn was that the forecast went in our favour unexpectedly quite close to the end and so i was able to introduce the biggest Business Tax Cut that people like the cbi said was a game changer that would fire up was a game changer that would fire up the british economy was white but im asking about now. Some people say now is not the time. The im asking about now. Some people say now is not the time. Im asking about now. Some people say now is not the time. The cbi has said now is say now is not the time. The cbi has said now is not say now is not the time. The cbi has said now is not the say now is not the time. The cbi has said now is not the time say now is not the time. The cbi has said now is not the time for said now is not the time for short term tax cuts. Some of your colleagues think you shouldnt be doing it, you should be spending spare cash on something hugely important like defence, for example. Is it not right to be looking to spend money on other places rather than scraping around for what might be quite small tax cuts . If rare than scraping around for what might be quite small tax cuts . Be quite small tax cuts . If we are auoin to be quite small tax cuts . If we are going to spend be quite small tax cuts . If we are going to spend more be quite small tax cuts . If we are going to spend more money be quite small tax cuts . If we are going to spend more money on i be quite small tax cuts . If we are going to spend more money on defence as i believe we will need to do in the future, what we need to have is a healthily growing economy. Decision i take will be as prudent, responsible long term decision. We were having a discussion about the fiscal rules and although i dont agree that we should change the fiscal rules because i think people would interpret that as britain losing control of its finances, i do very strongly agree with andy that we need a long term approach. That is what you will see from what i announced in the budget and what we do on tax will be linked to that and i make no secret as a conservative, i make no secret as a conservative, i want to put money back into peoples pockets but i will only do so in a way that is sensible, sustainable and for the long term. On those rules, across the political spectrum on our panel, our panellists were saying this is a constraining you as the chancellor, they are constraining the economy. Do you feel constrained pressure might do you feel you are in something of a straitjacket notjust because of the rules but because of the obr, the economic watchdog, breathing down your neck . For people at home, breathing down your neck . For people at home. What breathing down your neck . For people at home, what are breathing down your neck . For people at home, what are these breathing down your neck . For people at home, what are these rules . At home, what are these rules . Governments decide to have them. You could change them. We governments decide to have them. You could change them. We could governments decide to have them. You could change them. We could change i could change them. We could change them, could change them. We could change them. Some could change them. We could change them, some countries could change them. We could change them, some countries dont could change them. We could change them, some countries dont have them, some countries dont have them. The reason we have them is to give confidence to the british people and the world that we are a country that pays back on our deck and if we didnt have them people would worry that britain was going to go on an endless Borrowing Binge and we are not that sort of country. In fact, ive taken very difficult decisions as chancellor to show the world that we are good for the money we borrow and i wouldnt do anything that undermines that. That undermines that. People watchin that undermines that. People watching this that undermines that. People watching this morning that undermines that. People watching this morning will. That undermines that. People watching this morning will remember what happened in the autumn under your predecessor Kwasi Kwarteng, liz truss ditched the obr and promised unfunded tax cuts. Lets talk about some of the specifics. You are not going to confirm any specific tax cuts, not this morning, lets not do that dance. However, we should tell our viewers. Brute that dance. However, we should tell our viewers our viewers. We are going to do a different dance, our viewers. We are going to do a different dance, art our viewers. We are going to do a different dance, art way . Our viewers. We are going to do a different dance, art way . I our viewers. We are going to do a different dance, art way . I know. Our viewers. We are going to do a l different dance, art way . I know you are a keen ballroom different dance, art way . I know you are a keen ballroom dancer. Different dance, art way . I know you are a keen ballroom dancer. There i different dance, art way . I know you j are a keen ballroom dancer. There is are a keen ballroom dancer. There is a widespread expectation you are likely to cut National Insurance, there is a widespread expectation you are going to nick labours policy of tightening up the rules for so called non doms, policy of tightening up the rules forso called non doms, people policy of tightening up the rules for so called non doms, people who earn huge fortunes over abroad. You said these are foreigners who could leave easily in ireland, france, portugal or spain, they all have these schemes, id rather they stay here and spend their money here. Do you want to take that back . As i said, im not going to talk about individual taxes. {jut as i said, im not going to talk about individual taxes. About individual taxes. Out of rinci le about individual taxes. Out of principle do about individual taxes. Out of principle do you about individual taxes. Out of principle do you agree about individual taxes. Out of principle do you agree with i about individual taxes. Out of principle do you agree with Jeremy Principle do you agree Withjeremy Hunt from 2022 . I principle do you agree with jeremy hunt from 2022 . Hunt from 2022 . I dont disagree with jeremy hunt from 2022 . I dont disagree with jeremy hunt hunt from 2022 . I dont disagree with jeremy hunt from hunt from 2022 . I dont disagree with jeremy hunt from nearly with jeremy hunt from nearly everything i said Withjeremy Hunt from nearly everything i said in the with jeremy hunt from nearly everything i said in the past, but sometimes, let me say this, the country sees through gimmicks and we are not going to do gimmicks on wednesday. Its going to be a budget for responsible, long term growth. When it comes to labour, this is an Election Year and people will see a contrast. We have a plan for growth that has seen us grow faster than any large european economy. Hang on, jeremy hunt, any large european economy. Hang on, jeremy hunt, we any large european economy. Hang on, jeremy hunt, we are any large european economy. Hang on, jeremy hunt, we are speaking any large european economy. Hang on, jeremy hunt, we are speaking to jeremy hunt, we are speaking to labour later in the programme. Rachel reeves will be here next week so we are not discussing labours Economic Policy. You so we are not discussing labours Economic Policy Economic Policy. You mentioned labours economic Economic Policy. You mentioned labours Economic Policy. Economic policy. You mentioned labours Economic Policy. The i labours Economic Policy. The contrast with labour as we have halved unemployment. Their plans will destroy jobs halved unemployment. Their plans will destroyjobs because they want to give more additional burdens to employers. Their plans, we have plans to bring taxes down, they want to spend more, so there is that contrast with labour but its not going to be about gimmicks. Your lan going to be about gimmicks. Your ian on going to be about gimmicks. Your plan on nondoms going to be about gimmicks. Your plan on nondoms and going to be about gimmicks. Your plan on non doms and making it Harderfor Non Doms to plan on non doms and making it harder for non doms to pay tax and to hear perfectly legally under the current rules, you would be carrying out a screaming u turn. Do you deny that that is your plan . Iam not i am not talking about individual taxes. I thought that was a dance we were not going to do this morning. I want to find a way to bring down the tax burden as a conservative. That would be the right way to unlock growth in the economy. I will do so in a way that is responsible. I will not do so through borrowing, gimmicks, iwill do not do so through borrowing, gimmicks, i will do the right thing in the longer term interests of the countrys Economic Growth. What countrys Economic Growth. What about doing countrys Economic Growth. What about doing what countrys Economic Growth. What about doing what sir countrys Economic Growth. What about doing what sir rocco forte suggests, should he look forward to wednesday . I suggests, should he look forward to wednesday . Wednesday . I want to support the tourism industry. Wednesday . I want to support the tourism industry. I wednesday . I want to support the tourism industry. Iwill wednesday . I want to support the tourism industry. I will not wednesday . I want to support the tourism industry. I will not talk tourism industry. I will not talk about wednesday but in the Autumn Statement we cut Business Rates on retail, hospitality and leisure businesses by 75 . I think it has boosted an important sector. In principle, anything i can do to help business, i want to because this will be a budget for long term growth. Will be a budget for longterm urowth. ~. , will be a budget for longterm jrowth. ,. , will be a budget for longterm urowth. ,. , growth. What people watching are concerned about growth. What people watching are concerned about is growth. What people watching are concerned about is not growth. What people watching are concerned about is notjust growth. What people watching are concerned about is notjust how. Concerned about is notjust how inflation has eaten away at wages. Everybody knows when they go to the shop things have gone up and up. It has slowed down. You have made that point. But a strong sense shared by many that Public Services are creaking, not nearly good enough. Maybe, if you have spare cash, that is where money should go. A viewer Jonathan Hughes said joe and jill citizen do not want lower taxes, they would rather services of all sorts are provided and improved. What would you say to him . I say to jonathan what most people want is better Public Services and a lower tax burden. It is the old thing, can we have european Public Services and american levels of tax. The only way we have a chance of delivering Something Like that is by spending money we spend on Public Services more efficiently. I know we will talk about productivity later. If i could give an example. Typically nurses will say they spend up to a third of their time filling out forms rather than looking after patients and Police Officers say they spend eight hours a week on unnecessary paperwork. We have to think not about money we put in but whether we can do things more efficiently. So that we get more out. People working on the front line, who work extremely hard, they would find theirjobs more rewarding if we rethink the approach to public spending. If we rethink the approach to public sendina. , if we rethink the approach to public shendin. ,. ,. ,. , spending. Successive chancellors have promised spending. Successive chancellors have promised on spending. Successive chancellors have promised on productivity i spending. Successive chancellors i have promised on productivity which in normal language is spending taxpayers money properly and it does not seem much, ia years into power, to spend it properly. When you now say the answer is to spend cash better. Isl you now say the answer is to spend cash better cash better. 14 years in power and Violent Crime cash better. 14 years in power and Violent Crime has cash better. 14 years in power and Violent Crime has halved. Cash better. 14 years in power and Violent Crime has halved. Our i Violent Crime has halved. Our Reading Standards in schools were behind france, germany, sweden, they are now ahead. We have more than a0,000 additional doctors in the nhs. Ahead of the pandemic between 2010 and 2019, productivity in the Public Sector increased 1 a year. We need to get back to that. The pandemic stopped it. If we are going to square the circle of better Public Services and reducing the tax burden, we need to restart the programme of Public Service reform we had before the pandemic. So that is one thing we had before the pandemic. So that is one thing that we had before the pandemic. So that is one thing that has we had before the pandemic. So that is one thing that has gone we had before the pandemic. So that is one thing that has gone wrong, i is one thing that has gone wrong, the pandemic put the brakes on government looking to make taxpayers money be spent better . Not everywhere. The passport office, a couple of years ago there were huge problems with people getting passports. They have turned that around, ithink passports. They have turned that around, i think it is one of the most efficient Passport Services anywhere in the world. When you make those changes, it is more rewarding for those delivering services and better for the public and for those delivering services and betterfor the public and cheaper for the taxpayer. That is what we have to restart and that is why improving the way we spend money, efficiency of money, is key if we want to reduce the tax burden. Lets want to reduce the tax burden. Lets talk about the want to reduce the tax burden. Lets talk about the efficiency want to reduce the tax burden. Lets talk about the efficiency of a plan you announced last year, two huge fanfare, plans for child care in england. You said parents working would get 30 hours of Free Childcare for under fives would get 30 hours of Free Childcare for underfives by would get 30 hours of Free Childcare for under fives by september, would get 30 hours of Free Childcare for underfives by september, 15 hours for under two. Labour has spoken to childcare providers. They have claimed it is not ready on the ground and providers are worried about going out of business. A viewer, julia ford, like many others told it will not happen. She was told it will not happen. She was told this week, my daughter is trying to get childcare for her two year old and the nursery said it has not had information from the government yet. It is meant to be happening in a few weeks. Can you guarantee people watching today, parents and nursery providers, places will be there and no providers will go out of business as a result of the changes . I providers will go out of business as a result of the changes . A result of the changes . I believe we are on a result of the changes . I believe we are on track. A result of the changes . I believe we are on track. It a result of the changes . I believe we are on track. It is a result of the changes . I believe we are on track. It is the a result of the changes . I believe we are on track. It is the biggestl we are on track. It is the biggest extension of childcare in a generation. What we said was that we would expand the hours of Free Childcare to every parent when the children are nine months or older. A huge change, particularly for women, it means many women can go back to jobs without interrupting their career. But it is a big change. It may mean we need to employ a0,000 more people in the sector. That is why we are bringing it in in stages. The first step is two year olds in april. The next is september and finally be brought in the following september. I finally be brought in the following se tember. , finally be brought in the following setember. ,. ,. , september. I am not hearing you aaivin a september. I am not hearing you giving a guarantee september. I am not hearing you giving a guarantee and september. I am not hearing you giving a guarantee and we i september. I am not hearing you giving a guarantee and we were i september. I am not hearing you i giving a guarantee and we were told at the time it was a big change. You will at the time it was a big change. Gm, will understand why i want to give an absolute guarantee but am i confident we are delivering and it is on track for this april . Yes. Confident we are delivering and it is on track for this april . Is on track for this april . Yes, i am. Is childcare is on track for this april . Yes, i am. Is childcare going is on track for this april . Yes, i am. Is childcare going to i is on track for this april . Yes, i am. Is childcare going to be i is on track for this april . Yes, i am. Is childcare going to be forj am. Is childcare going to be for ever part of the Welfare State . I do not believe ever part of the Welfare State . I do not believe in ever part of the Welfare State . I do not believe in for ever part of the Welfare State . I if not believe in for ever expanding the Welfare State because it is not compatible with bringing the tax burden down and a society that makes work pay. This is different. Let me explain. If we are going to have a model for growth in the economy that is not based on unlimited migration but is based on increasing notjust gdp but gdp per head. But is based on increasing not ust gdp but gdp per head. I gdp but gdp per head. People in betterjobs. Gdp but gdp per head. People in betterjobs, earning gdp but gdp per head. People in betterjobs, earning more, i gdp but gdp per head. People in | betterjobs, earning more, rather than higher numbers . Betterjobs, earning more, rather than higher numbers . Exactly. If we are to change than higher numbers . Exactly. If we are to change the than higher numbers . Exactly. If we are to change the model than higher numbers . Exactly. If we are to change the model we than higher numbers . Exactly. If we are to change the model we need i than higher numbers . Exactly. If we are to change the model we need to j are to change the model we need to break down barriers for around 10 million adults of working age who are not in work. Childcare is one of the biggest reasons why parents say they are prevented from going back to work. We have talented young mums and dads who find they are prevented from going to work because of the cost of childcare. This measure means those parents can continue to progress in their careers which is good for the economy and therefore the right thing to do. Br; good for the economy and therefore the right thing to do. The right thing to do. By 2028, it is projected the right thing to do. By 2028, it is projected to the right thing to do. By 2028, it is projected to cost the right thing to do. By 2028, it is projected to cost more the right thing to do. By 2028, it is projected to cost more than i the right thing to do. By 2028, it| is projected to cost more than £8 billion. Some in your party are concerned about the size of the state and the state has been growing and growing. Is it a good idea, compatible with your ambition to be a lower tax country if you keep growing what the state office . It is because that growing what the state office . It is because that is growing what the state office . It 3 because that is the gross cost. If you look at the Economic Impact of having more people in work, higher gdp, more taxes paid, you find this is Cost Effective as a measure. As an example, if we had the same female participation rate, i am sorry, let me put it in better language. The same number of women working as they do in holland, we would have more than 2 million extra people in the workforce. That would mean a bigger gdp, less talent wasted and a more prosperous country. Wasted and a more prosperous count. V. , ~ wasted and a more prosperous count. � ,. ,. , country. Lets talk about the prosperity country. Lets talk about the prosperity of country. Lets talk about the prosperity of the country. Lets talk about the prosperity of the country i country. Lets talk about the | prosperity of the country and country. Lets talk about the i prosperity of the country and i want to show viewers something important. Sometimes it is hard to get your head around. This is the size of the countrys debt. 2019, about 80 . Already high. Now it is almost the size of the whole economy. A lot in your party and a lot of people probably watching, look at that and think it is horrifying. And i know of course the books have been battered by covid and the shock of the conflict in ukraine, liz truss and the Financial Markets did not help the situation. As a conservative chancellor, how can you be comfortable with that level . I am not. When be comfortable with that level . I am not when i be comfortable with that level . I am not. When i became be comfortable with that level . I. N not. When i became Chancellor Debt was projected to reach 100 of gdp. Now it is. j~ was projected to reach 100 of gdp. Now it is now it is. 98. Under the forecast it will no now it is. 98. Under the forecast it will go down now it is. 98. Under the forecast it will go down to now it is. 98. Under the forecast it will go down to more now it is. 98. Under the forecast it will go down to more like i now it is. 98. Under the forecast it will go down to more like 9496 i it will go down to more like 9a full stop you are right to talk about covid and the cost of living crisis. We spent hundreds of billions supporting families. I think that was the right thing. Since 2010, we have 800 more people in work every day the conservatives have been in office. We have kept unemployment at historic lows because of those decisions. Now the pandemic is behind us we have to start bringing down debt prudently and responsibly and that is what you will see on wednesday. Ianthem and responsibly and that is what you will see on wednesday. And responsibly and that is what you will see on wednesday. When you talk about bringing will see on wednesday. When you talk about bringing down will see on wednesday. When you talk about bringing down the will see on wednesday. When you talk about bringing down the debt, will see on wednesday. When you talk about bringing down the debt, by i will see on wednesday. When you talk about bringing down the debt, by thel about bringing down the debt, by the end of the five year forecast, you try to avoid the technical term, at the end of the period, it is projected to come down by a whisker. Do you think perhaps you need to do something more radical to confront the scale of that . It is something more radical to confront the scale of that . Something more radical to confront the scale of that . It is coming down significantly the scale of that . It is coming down significantly compared the scale of that . It is coming down significantly compared to the scale of that . It is coming down significantly compared to the i the scale of that . It is coming down significantly compared to the levels | significantly compared to the levels predicted when i became chancellor. The balancing act i have is that as i know andy haldane will agree, one of the most effective ways to bring down debt is to grow the economy. We have a plan that people like the International Monetary fund say will see the british economy growing faster than any large european economy over the next. It will grow faster than france, germany, italy, japan, overthe grow faster than france, germany, italy, japan, over the next five years. We need to stick with that plan. It is not the time to go back to square one. It is how we bring down debt, bring taxes down, Create Morejobs and down debt, bring taxes down, create more jobs and create the high wage, high skill economy everyone wants. Will you be chancellor by the time of the election . Of the election . Absolutely and i ho e to of the election . Absolutely and i hope to be of the election . Absolutely and i hope to be chancellor of the election . Absolutely and i hope to be chancellor after of the election . Absolutely and i hope to be chancellor after the l hope to be chancellor after the election because i think people will look at the fundamental choice. They know we have been through a difficult period but they know they have a government with a clear plan for the economy that is creating jobs, bringing in investment, and have seen us grow faster than similar european countries. The choice between that and a labour party that has abandoned its economic plan. I party that has abandoned its economic plan. Party that has abandoned its economic plan. I know you will talk. Economic plan. I know you will talk we economic plan. I know you will talk. We will economic plan. I know you will talk. We will talk economic plan. I know you will talk. We will talk to economic plan. I know you will talk. We will talk to rachel. Talk. We will talk to Rachel Reeves next week and people watching might feel differently about what you have said. Before we leave you, rishi sunak made a surprise speech about extremism on friday night after the election of George Galloway in rochdale. This time last week, the former conservative mp lee anderson was booted out of the party for comments that many believed, and we heard in the studio, were islamophobic and anti muslim. Liz truss turned up at an event with him a couple of days ago. If she was happy to appear alongside him, should she face consequences . That is a matter for should she face consequences . That is a matter for the should she face consequences . Trust is a matter for the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party has been clear and decisive. What lee anderson said was wrong. It was interpreted by many as fuelling anti Muslim Hatred and divisions. He was given a chance to apologise and did not and we took clear action. I think people know where the Conservative Party stands. Thank ou. We Conservative Party stands. Thank you we will Conservative Party stands. Thank you. We will see Conservative Party stands. Thank you. We will see what Conservative Party stands. Thank you. We will see what happens i Conservative Party stands. Thank| you. We will see what happens on wednesday and good luck in the london marathon. Im not sure if thatis london marathon. Im not sure if that is easier or harder than delivering a budget. Let me know what you think. You know we read all your messages. You can email me. Or on social use the hashtag bbclaurak. Or you can follow us also on x, instagram bbclaurak too. Iam sure i am sure you i am sure you were i am sure you were listening carefully. Andy, i know you will have been marking the economics very hard. ~. , have been marking the economics very hard. ~. ,. , have been marking the economics very hard. ~. ,. , have been marking the economics very hard. ~. , g , have been marking the economics very hard. , hard. What did you think . Jeremy was dealt a terrible hard. What did you think . Jeremy was dealt a terrible economic hard. What did you think . Jeremy was dealt a terrible economic hand hard. What did you think . Jeremy was dealt a terrible economic hand and i dealt a terrible economic hand and overall he has played it well. We had instability and now we have a degree of stability. Public sector improvements in productivity, fantastic. We have heard that a lot. Will it move the dial economically . Not really. Childcare, terrific, we have a problem of people not participating in the workforce. 8 Million People not participating. It helps that, it is to do good. Is there enough to think this will be there enough to think this will be the thing that gets growth going and pays down debt . The only way of paying it down is to get the economy going. Not really, that is not there. People still feel poorer and they feel poorer because they are. The tax take is going up. Not down. Monetary policy is getting tighter, not looser. All of those are headwinds for growth that make me think it is another year of saltiness. Think it is another year of saltiness. ,. , saltiness. You consider yourself a ro er saltiness. You consider yourself a proper conservative, saltiness. You consider yourself a proper conservative, rocco. I saltiness. You consider yourself a proper conservative, rocco. Do i saltiness. You consider yourself a i proper conservative, rocco. Do you Thinkjeremy Hunt will give you a proper conservative budget . Certainly not. It is underwhelming, what certainly not. It is underwhelming, what he certainly not. It is underwhelming, what he said. Nothing is being done to tackle what he said. Nothing is being done to tackle the real issues in the economy to tackle the real issues in the economy. He is the one who has raised economy. He is the one who has raised taxes. He now talks about reducing raised taxes. He now talks about reducing them sometime in the future reducing them sometime in the future. They talk about growth, labour future. They talk about growth, labour talks about growth, but everything they do is contrary to creating everything they do is contrary to creating growth and growth in the economy creating growth and growth in the economy. You have to grow the economy economy. You have to grow the economy at a faster pace than the norm economy at a faster pace than the norm and economy at a faster pace than the norm and that is the way, you do not repay norm and that is the way, you do not repay the norm and that is the way, you do not repay the debt, it shrinks as a percentage of gdp. We repaid the last world wars debt ten years ago. It is last world wars debt ten years ago. It is not last world wars debt ten years ago. It is not overnight. Rachel reeves was saying the economy is like it was after the second world war. Vicki, im not sure theres anything about housing. What did you think of what he had to say . It doesnt sound like it, its essential it doesnt sound like it, its essential infrastructure. Ifi it doesnt sound like it, its. Essential infrastructure. If you invest essential infrastructure. If you invest in essential infrastructure. If you invest in it essential infrastructure. If you invest in it you essential infrastructure. If you invest in it you free essential infrastructure. If you invest in it you free people i essential infrastructure. If you invest in it you free people up| essential infrastructure. If you i invest in it you free people up to do other invest in it you free people up to do other things invest in it you free people up to do other things that invest in it you free people up to do other things that you invest in it you free people up to do other things that you can i invest in it you free people up to| do other things that you can then grow do other things that you can then grow the do other things that you can then grow the economy. Do other things that you can then grow the economy. There do other things that you can then grow the economy. There was i do other things that you can then grow the economy. There was a i do other things that you can then i grow the economy. There was a study out last grow the economy. There was a study out last week grow the economy. There was a study out last week that grow the economy. There was a study out last week that found grow the economy. There was a study out last week that found 90,000 i out last week that found 90,000 Social Out Last week that found 90,000 social homes out last week that found 90,000 social homes being out last week that found 90,000 social homes being built out last week that found 90,000 social homes being built could i out last week that found 90,000 i social homes being built could boost the economy social homes being built could boost the economy By Social Homes being built could boost the economy by £50 social homes being built could boost the economy by £50 billion, social homes being built could boost the economy by £50 billion, you i social homes being built could boost the economy by £50 billion, you are| the economy by £50 billion, you are building. The economy by £50 billion, you are building, creating the economy by £50 billion, you are building, creating jobs, the economy by £50 billion, you are building, creating jobs, that the economy by £50 billion, you are building, creating jobs, that is i building, creating jobs, that is good building, creating jobs, that is good for building, creating jobs, that is good for gdp building, creating jobs, that is good for gdp. There building, creating jobs, that is good for gdp. There is building, creating jobs, that is good for gdp. There is no i building, creating jobs, that is good for gdp. There is no suggestion there good for gdp. There is no suggestion there will good for gdp. There is no suggestion there will be good for gdp. There is no suggestion there will be anything good for gdp. There is no suggestion there will be anything on good for gdp. There is no suggestion there will be anything on that good for gdp. There is no suggestion there will be anything on that and i there will be anything on that and thats there will be anything on that and thats also there will be anything on that and thats also not there will be anything on that and thats also not currently there will be anything on that and thats also not currently a there will be anything on that and thats also not currently a labourl thats also not currently a Labour Policy thats also not currently a Labour Policy either~ thats also not currently a Labour Policy either~ so thats also not currently a Labour Policy either thats also not currently a Labour Policy either. So labour isnt doing that either in policy either. So labour isnt doing that either in terms policy either. So labour isnt doing that either in terms of policy either. So labour isnt doing that either in terms of your policy either. So labour isnt doing that either in terms of your hopes. But talk about Efficient Government spending. But talk about Efficient Government spending. The but talk about Efficient Government spending, the housing but talk about Efficient Government spending, the Housing Benefit but talk about Efficient Government spending, the Housing Benefit billi spending, the Housing Benefit bill has grown spending, the Housing Benefit bill has grown because spending, the Housing Benefit bill has grown because we spending, the Housing Benefit bill has grown because we dont spending, the Housing Benefit bill has grown because we dont have| has grown because we dont have enough has grown because we dont have enough social has grown because we dont have enough Social Housing. Has grown because we dont have enough Social Housing. We has grown because we dont have enough Social Housing. We now i has grown because we dont have i enough Social Housing. We now spend more enough Social Housing. We now spend more on enough Social Housing. We now spend more on housing enough Social Housing. We now spend more on Housing Benefit enough Social Housing. We now spend more on Housing Benefit than enough Social Housing. We now spend more on Housing Benefit than we i more on Housing Benefit than we spend more on Housing Benefit than we spend on more on Housing Benefit than we spend on most more on Housing Benefit than we spend on most government i spend on most government departments. Spend on most government departments. It spend on most government departments. It doesnt i spend on most government i departments. It doesnt sound efficient departments. It doesnt sound efficient to departments. It doesnt sound efficient to me. Departments. It doesnt sound efficient to me. We departments. It doesnt sound efficient to me. Departments. It doesnt sound efficient to me. We built 120,000 homes a year efficient to me. We built 120,000 homes a year over efficient to me. We built 120,000 homes a year over the efficient to me. We built 120,000 homes a year over the last i efficient to me. We built 120,000 homes a year over the last few i efficient to me. We built 120,000 i homes a year over the last few years and weve homes a year over the last few years and weve let in net 1. 4 Million People and weve let in net 1. 4 Million People over the last two years. Where people over the last two years. Where are people over the last two years. Where are they going to be housed . This is where are they going to be housed . This is a where are they going to be housed . This is a complete contradiction in terms this is a complete contradiction in terms and this is a complete contradiction in terms and the planning rules need to be changed. 3000 pages of regulation if you want be changed. 3000 pages of regulation if you want to follow if you want to build. If you want to follow if you want to build. A if you want to follow if you want to build. A lot if you want to follow if you want to build, a lot of it contradictory. Nothing build, a lot of it contradictory. Nothing is build, a lot of it contradictory. Nothing is being done to touch that. The other nothing is being done to touch that. The other issue is the race to net zero the other issue is the race to net zero thats the other issue is the race to net zero. Thats putting a huge load on the economy and actually making the lives of the economy and actually making the lives of poor people much more difficult, lives of poor people much more difficult, because what they are spending on energy is a huge portion of their spending on energy is a huge portion of their income. Of their income. Andy, do you have any sympathy of their income. Andy, do you have any sympathy for of their income. Andy, do you have any sympathy for the of their income. Andy, do you have any sympathy for the government . Theyve been dealt a very difficult hand. Youve also got the activities of the Bank Of England which, you know, yourformer of the Bank Of England which, you know, your former employer, of the Bank Of England which, you know, yourformer employer, i know you dont always take that rosy a view of what theyve been up to . Look, the fundamentals of the uk economy as strong as any of our neighbours would wish, right, and what is happening on Military Policy and on the fiscal front. Soleiii and on the fiscal front. Soleil mans terms. And on the fiscal front. Soleil mans terms. Interest and on the fiscal front. Soleil mans terms. Interest rates, | mans terms. Interest rates, fiscal policy. Mans terms. Interest rates, fiscal policy, tax mans terms. Interest rates, fiscal policy, tax and mans terms. Interest rates, fiscal policy, tax and spend,. Fiscal policy, tax and spend, neither are currently really helping. They are currently becoming a headwind to growth rather than a tailwind and that is why its about back to fundamentals, right . So getting people into work and making them more productive in the world of work. Its something not discussed at all today, did not discuss much at all today, did not discuss much at all today, did not discuss much at all in Public Discourse is the skills agenda, you know, the biggest single break on business right now, im sure rocco will tell you this, is too few people with too few skills. Weve heard nothing about skills. Weve heard nothing about skills and that is a big gap if we are to get growth going. Haifa skills and that is a big gap if we are to get growth going. How much of an issue is that are to get growth going. How much of an issue is that for are to get growth going. How much of an issue is that for you are to get growth going. How much of an issue is that for you as are to get growth going. How much of an issue is that for you as an an issue is that for you as an employer . You have two big hotels in the uk. How hard is it to get the right people . It the uk. How hard is it to get the right maple . Right people . It is difficult, particularly right people . It is difficult, particularly immediately i right people . It is difficult, i particularly immediately after right people . It is difficult, particularly immediately after covid but looking at browns hotel, for example. But looking at browns hotel, for example, only 27 of the workforce is british example, only 27 of the workforce is british. , example, only 27 of the workforce is ltritish at example, only 27 of the workforce is british. 2 . . At bell moral in is british. 27 . At bell moral in edinburgh. Is british. 27 . At bell moral in edinburgh, 3796 is british. 27 . At bell moral in edinburgh, 3796 is is british. 2923 at bell moral in edinburgh, 37 is british. Is british. 2943 at bell moral in edinburgh, 37 is british. The is british. 27943. At bell moral in edinburgh, 37 is british. The rest are all edinburgh, 37 is british. The rest are all foreigners. So there is a reluctance are all foreigners. So there is a reluctance of english people to come and Work Reluctance of english people to come and work in reluctance of english people to come and work in the industry and people say its and work in the industry and people say its a and work in the industry and people say its a question of low paid jobs and so say its a question of low paid jobs and so on. Say its a question of low paid jobs and so on. I say its a question of low paid jobs and so on, i was saying earlier, chambermaids at browns are earning £34,000 chambermaids at browns are earning £34,000 a chambermaids at browns are earning £34,000 a year which is the average wae £34,000 a year which is the average wage across £34,000 a year which is the average wage across the country so its not ust wage across the country so its not just that wage across the country so its not just that. There is a reluctance of english just that. There is a reluctance of english people to come into the industry english people to come into the industry. Maybe that is the industrys fault. I industry. Maybe that is the industrys fault. Industry. Maybe that is the indust s fault. , , industrys fault. I was in grimsby recently and industrys fault. I was in grimsby recently and somebody industrys fault. I was in grimsby recently and somebody there industrys fault. I was in grimsby| recently and somebody there was saying recently and somebody there was saying theyd recently and somebody there was saying theyd love recently and somebody there was saying theyd love to recently and somebody there was saying theyd love to get recently and somebody there was saying theyd love to get young. Saying theyd love to get young peopie saying theyd love to get young people trained saying theyd love to get young people trained up saying theyd love to get young people trained up to saying theyd love to get young people trained up to work saying theyd love to get young people trained up to work in i people trained up to work in construction, people trained up to work in construction, there people trained up to work in construction, there isnt people trained up to work in construction, there isnt a l people trained up to work in construction, there isnt a college in grimsby construction, there isnt a college in grimsby or construction, there isnt a college in grimsby or even construction, there isnt a college in grimsby or even near construction, there isnt a college in grimsby or even near grimsby. | construction, there isnt a college in grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest in grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest one in grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest one is in grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest one is in in grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest one is in norwich. In grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest one is in norwich. 50 in grimsby or even near grimsby. The nearest one is in norwich. Nearest one is in norwich. So that is the skills nearest one is in norwich. So that is the skills gap nearest one is in norwich. So that is the skills gap and nearest one is in norwich. So that is the skills gap and training nearest one is in norwich. So that is the skills gap and training with | is the skills gap and training with needs. We are closing our time on this section of the programme, if you think for people watching at home, people have had a really rough time, a lot of people have found it very hard to make ends meet in the last few years. What do you think people who have really struggled will make of Whatjeremy Hunt has said this morning . There is a sense its on the never never, its always being promised full screen i think they will know its not true for them, inflation might be falling but things are still much more expensive than they were. Things are still much more expensive than they were than they were. Particularly Housing Costs. Than they were. Particularly Housing Costs rents than they were. Particularly Housing Costs. Rents are than they were. Particularly Housing Costs. Rents are still than they were. Particularly Housing Costs. Rents are still rising, than they were. Particularly Housing Costs. Rents are still rising, still costs. Rents are still rising, still inflating costs. Rents are still rising, still inflating we costs. Rents are still rising, still inflating. We may costs. Rents are still rising, still inflating. We may have costs. Rents are still rising, still inflating. We may have reachedl costs. Rents are still rising, still. Inflating. We may have reached the peak of inflating. We may have reached the peak of rent inflating. We may have reached the peak of Rent Inflation inflating. We may have reached the peak of Rent Inflation but inflating. We may have reached the peak of Rent Inflation but people i peak of Rent Inflation but people know peak of Rent Inflation but people know because peak of Rent Inflation but people know because they peak of Rent Inflation but people know because they see peak of Rent Inflation but people know because they see their know because they see their outgoings know because they see their outgoings getting know because they see their outgoings getting bigger. I know because they see their| outgoings getting bigger. 1. 5 million outgoings getting bigger. 1. 5 Million People outgoings getting bigger. 1. 5 Million People coming outgoings getting bigger. 1. 5 Million People coming off. Outgoings getting bigger. 1. 5. Million people coming off fixed outgoings getting bigger. 1. 5 Million People coming off fixed Rate Mortgages Million People coming off fixed Rate Mortgages onto Million People coming off fixed Rate Mortgages onto higher Million People coming off fixed Rate Mortgages onto higher rates Million People coming off fixed Rate Mortgages onto higher rates wontl mortgages onto higher rates wont feel like mortgages onto higher rates wont feel like things mortgages onto higher rates wont feel like things are mortgages onto higher rates wont feel like things are getting mortgages onto higher rates wont feel like things are Getting Better. Feel like things are Getting Better for them feel like things are Getting Better for them. ~ feel like things are Getting Better for them. ,. ,. ,. , for them. 0k, thank you, all three of ou. For them. 0k, thank you, all three of yom we for them. 0k, thank you, all three of you. We have for them. 0k, thank you, all three of you. We have rachel for them. 0k, thank you, all three of you. We have Rachel Reeves. For them. 0k, thank you, all three l of you. We have Rachel Reeves with us here next week. I know youll all remember the powerful words from esther ghey, the mum of brianna, who was killed by two other teenagers who planned their attack on messaging apps and had taken inspiration from the dark web. Esther� s interview has stirred up a big and important conversation about how to protect kids online. And she even spoke to the Prime Minister this week about her campaign to stop under 16s getting their hands on smartphones. But sadly shes not the only parent who believes their child was put in danger online. Mariano janins daughter mia took her own life in 2021, after being bullied by boys at her school in real life, and online. He now believes there should be a specific new law on cyberbullying to protect others in future. Marianos wife passed away from an illness a few months after mia died. I met mariano recently, and he shared their story. Mia starts school at the beginning of march 2021, after the second lockdown. And she was fine. But we found later that she was, on this first day in school, i think something happened that she couldnt explain to her or explain to us and took this tragic decision. You felt that she was living her life normally . Yes. And yet there was this other world online. Yes. I didnt know about this online world. What kinds of things, then, were being said . What kinds of things were happening . They say that she was bullied. We found the screenshot of her saying that she was prepared to be badly bullied. Naming the kids who were bullying her at this time. Then we found that apart from these kids, there was a big group of boys, as well. Um. It was a terrible time for me and for my wife. And what about the messages that the boys were sending then . What happened to them and what do you believe the school did . They organised in the school an assembly and asked the kids to delete the messages. What do you think about that . My common sense says that if you have a Police Investigation and you have this potential group, you should notify to the police. Maybe this group of kids, they have information on the phone, but thats what they did. The met lost her phone for a long time, which could have had vital evidence. You believe the school told the boys to delete their messages. Yes. You heard hardly anything from them. How do you feel about how youve been treated . After a double tragedy, you know, im in survival mode trying to, you know, stand up again. Justice, as well. Justice. Its something that we cannot accept that things like this happen and they brush it up under the carpet. We need to act. What role do you think that social media played in your daughters death . Social media, its part of whats happened to mia. Unfortunately, its part of our kids generation thing. Its like in the same way that we used to communicate through music in the 805 and 90s, or sports. They communicate with social media. The good thing is we have, for example, the Online Safety bill that i think maybe this is the first step in order to get change, real change for our young kids. I think we need to do something against bullying. We need to revise the existing legislation about bullying, try to understand and try to act, do something. Do you have faith that what the government has done with the Online Safety bill will make enough of a difference . I think its an amazing thing that we will have something, of course, because technology is changing. But i think if you have a young kid, we need to understand where are they, because thats the thing that i discovered after. There are some places on the internet that the kid can get access in a way that we will never try to do it the dark places. And, sadly, youre not the only family to have been affected in this way. No. Esther ghey, briannas mum. Yes. Told us a few weeks ago she would like social media and smartphones to be banned for under 16s. What do you think of that idea . I understand her perfectly well because that was my feeling, as well, at the beginning. But its like putting the genie inside the bottle again. We need to learn to live with this technology. But this is happening globally, its not only in england. Im sitting here in london probably, at the same time, we have another parent doing the same in milano, another one in San Francisco and buenos aires. This is one of the bad consequences of this. The government said that schools shouldnt allow kids to have phones. They will have a phone, anyway. Its like this. They will hide the phone. And its not the way. They need to learn to use their phone responsibly, in a responsible way. And we need to have the social Media Service with some kind of, you know, responsibility, as well. How much does it matter to you to try to change the situation . I know there are still lots of young people suffering. And this is something we are, you know, in a good country, in a modern society. We shouldnt have our kids dying for this stupid matter or subject. Mia was always asking questions. She was always curious. She was. She was she wanted to understand everything. Yes, yes. In the world. Do you think you will ever be able to understand why this happened . I think i can accept what happened. I dont think i will understand. Its a. I accept its happened to me. Ijust live in an empty house with a small dog. I used to have a home with a wife and a daughter. I accept thats my reality. I cannot escape from this. And lets finish with a happiest memory. Whats the happiest memory of the three of you . Happiest memories it was holiday in majorca. We rented a boat and. I just gave the wheel to mia and my wife was sitting on the back and trying to stand up and mia. They started to laugh, both of them. It was. I have so much. Lots of beautiful memories with me and marisa. Mariano, thank you so much for speaking to us. Thank you to you, laura. Thank you. Mariano janin there. Since our interview, the met police have told us that they have now found a missing sim card and phone belonging to mia and are arranging their return to the family. Mias school, thejewish free school in london, said all information held by the school was handed to the police and it said the coroners report was not a reflection of how things are at the school today. If you are worried about bullying or mental health, there is lots of information on the bbc action line online. Listening to that, heres Bridget Phillipson whod be Education Secretary if labour win the next election. You heard their Mariano Janin saying hed like there to be a specific new law on Cyber Bullying to stop other children suffering in the way his daughter did. Is that something you might consider . We would want to work with the families we would want to work with the families who experience bereavement to understand what they face on how the government can address that. We have the government can address that. Have also the government can address that. E have also heard in recent weeks as well from briannas mother. It is hard to understand what they have experience but the dignity in which they demonstrated how they want to be part of the change. And how we keep Children Safe. It is about the online world but also about what we can do to keep Children Safe in school and i have been talking about how we need to take action, especially when it comes to issues such as misogyny and sexism and how we can support young men to be part of the solution and not the problem. There was there a specific suggestion about a Cyber Bullying law and also what esther ghey suggested, refusing access to social media for under 165. Your colleague was with us that week and he said labour had an open mind on that issue. Have you decided whether you would consider extra changes to the law . Irate would consider extra changes to the law . ~. ,. ,. , would consider extra changes to the law . ,. ,. ,. Law . We would want to work with families and law . We would want to work with families and look law . We would want to work with families and look at law . We would want to work with families and look at evidence law . We would want to work with i families and look at evidence around what needs to change. It took a long time for the Online Safety act to come into effect. We still think there are problems but we want to make it work, to ensure children are protected online and also how we support young people so they have skills to navigate this world. It is hard to turn back the clock. And there is potential with technology in terms of how we can support childrens learning and development but parents worry about making sure children are protected. Parents worry about making sure they know what is going on. What you have seen recently about what more needs to happen in terms of access to the dark web is another area we need to take action on. Dark web is another area we need to take action om take action on. Lets talk about child and plans take action on. Lets talk about child and plans for take action on. Lets talk about child and plans for child take action on. Lets talk about child and plans for child care i take action on. Lets talk about child and plans for child care in j child and plans for child care in england due to come in. We asked jeremy hunt if he could guarantee it would be ready. We know from view as it does not appear plans already. What we heard from jeremy hunt was a failure to guarantee parents can access what he promised a year ago. A year ago i was pushing him hard on child and he rushed out this commitment, a pledge with no plan to make it happen and now parents in the months ahead when they try to access places promised will discover they cannot be delivered in the way he set out. What is peculiar, i thought, about what he said, he almost did not like his own policy and regarded it as an extension of the Welfare State. Childcare and early years education has to be a central part of supporting parents and how we deliver life chances for children. The bit that is missing, alongside places, is how we get high quality provision alongside. Your lans quality provision alongside. Your lans on quality provision alongside. Your plans on childcare quality provision alongside. Your plans on childcare are quality provision alongside. Your plans on childcare are currently a mystery. If you win the election, will you promise parents the same amount of childcare the government has . I amount of childcare the government has . ,. ,. , amount of childcare the government has . ,. ,. ,. , amount of childcare the government has . ,. ,. , has . I do not want to see Parents Losin has . I do not want to see Parents Losing out has . I do not want to see Parents Losing out but has . I do not want to see Parents Losing out but a has . I do not want to see Parents Losing out but a lot has . I do not want to see Parents Losing out but a lot of has . I do not want to see Parents Losing out but a lot of parents has . I do not want to see parentsj losing out but a lot of parents will not get on what is promised. That not get on what is promised. That was not my not get on what is promised. That was not my question. Not get on what is promised. That was not my question. The government seems to struggle to fulfil the promise made but it is a Big Change And Asjeremy Hunt said, they are doing their best. How much provision will labour guarantee for parents . I have set out how i want to deliver a reformed system from the end of parental leave to the end of Primary School and the first step is universal free Breakfast Clubs in Primary School because all parents know Childcare Issues do not end when children arrive at school. It would be a Transformation Notjust in terms of children arriving, getting a meal as they arrive, but also the education. I getting a meal as they arrive, but also the education. Getting a meal as they arrive, but also the education. I am asking on childcare. You also the education. I am asking on childcare. You criticise also the education. I am asking on childcare. You criticise the childcare. You criticise the government plans but what will your plans be . The government promised 30 hours free for eligible families with children under five. What is your promise . You are happy to criticise them but what will your promise be . Criticise them but what will your romise be . , ,. , promise be . They rushed something out and there promise be . They rushed something out and there is promise be . They rushed something out and there is no promise be . They rushed something out and there is no way promise be . They rushed something out and there is no way to promise be . They rushed something out and there is no way to make promise be . They rushed something out and there is no way to make it i out and there is no way to make it happen. I have asked the previous Chief Inspector Foster to lead labours early years review and to look at how we ensure places are there, and how we drive up standards, better integrate early years education into the system. And alongside that, Breakfast Clubs. It is notjust about alongside that, Breakfast Clubs. It is not just about the youngest children important though that is. You are happy to criticise the government is having difficulty in achieving plans but you are not ready to say what your plans will be. I ready to say what your plans will be. ,. ,. , ready to say what your plans will be. I am saying ifi am Education Secretary in be. I am saying ifi am Education Secretary in the be. I am saying ifi am Education Secretary in the next be. I am saying ifi am Education Secretary in the next Labour Secretary in the next Labour Government, early years education and childcare will be a priority and it is essential be get it right which is why i have asked him to lead the work. Jeremy hunt said you need tens of thousand more staff. Where are they coming from . That is what we need to get right. What we need to get right. Where would ou what we need to get right. Where would you get what we need to get right. Where would you get the what we need to get right. Where would you get the money what we need to get right. Where would you get the money to what we need to get right. Where| would you get the money to spend what we need to get right. Where would you get the money to spend on it . Many in the sector say you need more cash to get better staff and more cash to get better staff and more people. When you get more money from Rachel Reeves . From Rachel Reeves . Jeremy hunt announce more from Rachel Reeves . Jeremy hunt announce more cash from Rachel Reeves . Jeremy hunt announce more cash and from Rachel Reeves . Jeremy hunt announce more cash and it from Rachel Reeves . Jeremy hunt announce more cash and it will. From Rachel Reeves . Jeremy hunt| announce more cash and it will not be possible to spend as intended because we do not have the places. When you have more money to spend on childcare . Rachel reeves tells people how tightly she will keep control of public finances. Irate people how tightly she will keep control of public finances. We have more money control of public finances. We have more money to control of public finances. We have more money to spend control of public finances. We have more money to spend through control of public finances. We have more money to spend through the| more money to spend through the delivery of Breakfast Clubs, a big difference from what we see right now. I am determined we deliver a better Early Education system. It is right for the economy. We had these commitments last year, connected to Economic Growth, and there is an argument about Economic Growth and impact of childcare and Rachel Reeves is clear about that. Alongside that how we make sure children get a brilliant start. Every school in the country, including secondaries and universities say to me if you want to make the biggest difference in education, make sure youse set up all children to succeed when they are younger. That is not the situation now and the next Labour Government will change that. Rochdale and the by election, labour had a terrible time having chosen a candidate revealed to have offensive views. George galloway, very controversial character, a lot of politicians worry about, ends up winning the day. Are you worried that will happen in other labour seats where somebody like him with those views can come in and whip up division and end up winning . I deeply regret where we got two in rochdale and that we had to pull support from the candidate and effectively did not field a candidate. What i am confident about, in a general election, we will have a strong candidate, someone who can bring the Community Together and that is what we are focused on. Share together and that is what we are focused om together and that is what we are focused on. ,. ,. , focused on. Are you worried it will ha en focused on. Are you worried it will happen elsewhere . Focused on. Are you worried it will happen elsewhere . I focused on. Are you worried it will happen elsewhere . I do focused on. Are you worried it will happen elsewhere . I do not focused on. Are you worried it will happen elsewhere . I do not want| happen elsewhere . I do not want hatred and happen elsewhere . I do not want hatred and division happen elsewhere . I do not want hatred and division in hatred and division in any community. And tensions inflamed. Sadly that is the mof that individual in question. We have to seek to bring communities together and take a sensible approach and make sure labour candidates are of the highest calibre. John woodcock, who was a labour the highest calibre. John woodcock, who was a labour mp. The highest calibre. John woodcock, who was a labour mp. He the highest calibre. John woodcock, who was a labour mp. He is the highest calibre. John woodcock, who was a labour mp. He is in the highest calibre. John woodcock, who was a labour mp. He is in the l who was a labour mp. He is in the lords and advises the Prime Minister on tackling political violence. He said mp5 and councillors should be instructed not to engage with anyone from a group called the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign who have organised marches. John macdonald the labour mp has spoken at a vigil and another mp was pictured with them at the Labour Party Conference in october. Isjohn woodcock right to say mp5 should cut links with that group . I to say mps should cut links with that grow . To say mps should cut links with that group . To say mps should cut links with that arou . ~ ,. ,. , that group . I agree mps need to take care in terms that group . I agree mps need to take care in terms of that group . I agree mps need to take care in terms of the that group . I agree mps need to take care in terms of the associations that group . I agree mps need to take care in terms of the associations we l care in terms of the associations we have with individuals of organisations. It is important that the right to protest is a ride in democracy. That does mean that people will take part in marches where politicians might not agree but that part of democracy is really precious. But that part of democracy is really recious. ~ but that part of democracy is really recious. ,. ,. , bridget, thank you. We are racing towards ten o clock and we have been talking this morning about what, if anything much, jeremy hunt, will be trying to tempt you with in wednesdays budget. He told me he would be prudent about tax cuts. I do want, where its possible to do so responsibly, to move towards a lower tax economy and i hope to show a path in that direction, but this will be a prudent and responsible budget for long term growth, tackling inflation, more investment, more jobs, and that path to lower taxation as and when we can afford it. You told us what you thought. Jenny walton i have heard it all before responsibility, prudence, sticking to the plan. I feel no confidence that anything will change. Paul in liverpool the conservatives have broken this country. Nhs broken. Immigration broken. Call a general election. Roger hunt was very believable and sensible. He is a very good safe pair of hands. Labour will make things worse, not better. Arrange coming into the inbox. We can see what the desk make of it in the last few minutes. I wanted to ask about budgets and chancellors. We often have big figures. Gordon brown and his clunking fist, ken clark with his cigar and whisky. Andy, you knowjeremy hunt and Rachel Reeves well. Tell us something we do not know about them. Are they the characters for the moment . , are they the characters for the moment . Are they the characters for the moment . ,. ,. , are they the characters for the moment . ,. , , moment . They are both serious people and these are moment . They are both serious people and these are serious moment . They are both serious people and these are serious times, moment . They are both serious people and these are serious times, that is and these are serious times, that is a good thing. But the economy needs a good thing. But the economy needs a sprinkling of fairy dust. It needs its mojo back. That calls for more. It exists in the regions and nations, not whitehall and westminster but the regions and nations. Liberating them would liberate growth. Nations. Liberating them would liberate growth. Nations. Liberating them would liberate urowth. , �. , liberate growth. Andy burnham was here last week liberate growth. Andy burnham was here last week and liberate growth. Andy burnham was here last week and he liberate growth. Andy burnham was here last week and he would liberate growth. Andy burnham was here last week and he would agree. Enough fairy dust around . There is not a enough fairy dust around . There is not a clear enough fairy dust around . There is not a clear sense of where to go. That not a clear sense of where to go. That is not a clear sense of where to go. That is the not a clear sense of where to go. That is the problem. A lot of people with the that is the problem. A lot of people with the freezing of tax thresholds, paying with the freezing of tax thresholds, paying more tax that should not pay those paying more tax that should not pay those levels of taxation. I have met the chancellor a few times. He would classify the chancellor a few times. He would classify in the chancellor a few times. He would classify in Margaret Thatcher times as an classify in Margaret Thatcher times as an arch classify in Margaret Thatcher times as an arch wet. Not prepared to take on the as an arch wet. Not prepared to take on the treasury and the obr. The most on the treasury and the obr. The most ridiculous invention of George Osbornes most ridiculous invention of George Osbornes. It needs radical change. The way osbornes. It needs radical change. The way the osbornes. It needs radical change. The way the country is run and approach the way the country is run and approach we take to running the country approach we take to running the country. Everything is now about what country. Everything is now about what government is going to do for people what government is going to do for people it what government is going to do for people. If you have people with more money people. If you have people with more money in people. If you have people with more money in their pockets they might feel to money in their pockets they might feel to do money in their pockets they might feel to do it for themselves. Where will the magic feel to do it for themselves. Where will the magic does feel to do it for themselves. Where will the magic does come feel to do it for themselves. Where will the magic does come from . I l feel to do it for themselves. Where l will the magic does come from . I do not think it will the magic does come from . I do not think it will will the magic does come from . I cr not think it will come from jeremy not think it will come from jeremy no gimmicks hunt, nor Rachel Reeves, who was saying she was talked to balance the books at the kitchen table. With the election on the horizon, both parties would like to win it and fairy dust might not win an election. Win it and fairy dust might not win an election an election. Safety is something attractive and an election. Safety is something attractive and politics an election. Safety is something attractive and politics is an election. Safety is something attractive and politics is not attractive and politics is not always like that. The parties perceive a safe pair of hands is an advantage and in other eras being more exciting is an advantage. Liz truss more exciting is an advantage. L z truss and Kwasi Kwarteng took a risk and it really backfired. It certainly did. You have given us magic fairy dust. Thank you for coming in on this important morning, the chancellor ahead of his big budget. A big thank you to vicky spratt, rocco forte and andy haldane. A huge thank you to you for watching our budget warm up. It might not be a vintage day on wednesday. Maybe there will not be much fairy dust. The countrys Balance Sheet was battered by covid, then conflict in ukraine, so it wont be a moment when the chancellor will be tempting you with lots of tasty morsels. The economy has been as stuck as the tories are in the polls. Numbers ten and 11 have a chance to try to budge both sets of numbers this week, but thats a tall order. Next sunday, the woman whos afterjeremy hunts job, Rachel Reeves, will be here. So do send your questions on her plans for the economy. Catch anything again on iplayer, or me and Paddy Oconnell on bbc sounds later with this sundays newscast. Or ill see you back here next sunday, same time, same place. Live from london, this is bbc news mediators start arriving in cairo, to try to reach an agreement on a temporary ceasefire between israel and hamas. Shehbaz sharif becomes pakistans Prime Minister again weeks after uncertain elections led to the formation of a Coalition Government and its a record breaking night at the brit awards, raye picks up six prizes best night of my life, hands down, without a shadow of a doubt. Will it ever get better than this again . Good morning. Lets turn to the middle east. Mediators are arriving in the egyptian capital cairo to try to reach an agreement on a temporary ceasefire between israel and hamas. There are reports that hamas says a gaza truce is possible within 24 to 48 hours if israel accepts demands. |t comes as a top us official says israel has basically agreed to a framework for a six week ceasefire. The official says it could begin immediately, if hamas is ready to release the most vulnerable israeli hostages it holds. But one egyptian official says there are still technical issues to resolve, including agreement on the number of palestinian prisoners the israelis would be prepared to release in exchange
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