Exactly, bbc one taken over for three hours. The only thing we would ever have in common withjoe rogan. Serious subject first. We have an inquiry out today, or the first part of an inquiry, that was looking at how Wayne Couzens, the serving metropolitan Police Officer who murdered Sarah Everard in 2021 in london, could ever have been a metropolitan Police Officer. What was it like for you, as somebody who has got political oversight of that force, reading that report . Because in every single page there was something really bad that had gone wrong over decades . Can i begin the conversation by speaking about sarah, Sarah Everard and her family, her parents and her siblings . It is important to remember her in the context of this conversation. I remember vividly the days after sarah disappeared because i live not far from where sarah disappeared from, and it was during the pandemic and my wife and daughters would go regularly for walks in and around that area. So it brings it all back, not just to sarah and her family but to those of us who are living around the area. But actually all women and girls, and those of us who have got family, women and girls, would be impacted by todays report. The reason why the report is so important is because it is quite clear this sexual predator and this sex offender was known prior tojoining one of the three Police Forces he joined. So he should never have joined the Police Service in the first place. Kent constabulary, the Civil Nuclear authority, the met Police Service. During his service in all three Police Forces, it was clear, there were warnings, there were signals, there were red flags. They were not taken seriously. In the days preceding the abduction, rape and murder of sarah, again, his inappropriate behaviour was demonstrated by the Indecent Exposure. Which he had done quite a few times. That is one of the many things that he has done. One of the reasons why i lost confidence with the former commissioner was a failure to understand the systemic and cultural failings but also have a plan to take action. An example of that is just the fact that this guy was showing horrible photographs with fellow officers and nobody called him out, nobody reported him and no action was taken. So this is an issue that i think all Police Forces must look into. We have got to make sure we change the Culture Systems within the Police Service. It is far, far too easy to become a Police Officer. It is far too difficult to get rid of a dodgy officer. But also, we have got to be an organisation, the met Police Service and all the others that is anti misogynistic, anti racist, anti homophobic. So there isnt a culture where this sort of behaviour is acceptable. That is a striking thing, isnt it . That this wasnt just a Single Police force. This wasntjust a force where you could say, there is a particular culture in force a that is an exception here . There was three. I was reflecting a couple of years ago, when this all really got to the fore. Whether you work for the bbc, city hall, sainsburys or the Police Service, some sort of behaviour from your colleagues you know is out of order and you report it, right . But with Police Officers, because theyve got this huge amount of power, a huge amount of discretion, it is even more incumbent for there to be checks and balances. And let us be quite clear, the only reason sarah got into the car was because this guy showed his warrant card. Sarahs parents have said, and her siblings, she would not have got into a car with a stranger, so we know that sarah was abducted, raped and murdered because this man was a Police Officer. And chris is right, this isntjust a Police Service issue, and we have been trying in the last few years to change the culture within the Police Service of london, it is an issue for all of policing. That is why i am really pleased the National PoliceChiefs Council are responding today as one, as all 43 Police Forces. Lady angiolini, the scottish lawyer who did this inquiry, and there is still two more parts of this inquiry to go, so we could learn even more awful details about how bad the police are with some things, she says, just doing existing policies to stamp out existing policies to stamp out misogyny better isnt enough. But to me, that sounds like she is being critical of existing police chiefs, who say we dont need to come up with anything new to sort out the Culture Problems in the police, we just need to do existing things a bit better. I know as somebody, because of my life experiences, what it is like to be different in how you are treated by the police. When i first became the mayor of london and was told by senior Police Officers, including the former police commissioner, these are some rotten apples, or the phrase used was wrong uns. It is notjust some wrong uns or bad apples, there are systems it is notjust some wrong uns or some bad apples, there are systems and cultures in place that encourage people like this tojoin. But also, they stay within this organisation without action being taken. There are other brave officers who do report it. It takes two years for that complaint to be investigated. No action is taken. The leaders havent got the proper training, there isnt a proper supervision. The right processes are not in place. So if you are a woman Police Officer, you think, whats the point in making a complaint . If you are a black Police Officer, what is the point in making a complaint . And that is within the Police Service. Imagine members of the public. The point of my question was, the proposals that sir mark rowley, the boss of the met, has put to you and others about how he is going to reform the met in terms of all this stuff, are they sufficient, do they meet the size of the challenge . Or do we need a sort of step change . Something different . What we have in this report is 16 further recommendations. So what sir mark did when he became the commissioner of the Police Service with his number two, dame lynne owens, is go and speak to londoners. He deserves huge credit. He went to every single borough with his top team and engaged with londoners. He listened and he responded with what he calls, and i support, the new met for london plan. No other police force has that, by the way. The only Police Service in the country to have that. The recommendations today want us to go even further. We will go even further. If these cultural issues are as deeply embedded in the mindset of policing institutions, for all of the attempts to change that, is it notjust going to take a generation or a whole generation of officers and support staff to leave and the next generation to come on . Because you are trying to change the culture and habits of thousands of people and perhaps an institutional mentality, and that might be admirable but it is likely to be blooming difficult. The really good news is, and its important i say this, there are Tens Of Thousands of brilliant officers, thoroughly decent, thoroughly brave, with the right values. They need our support by changing the systems. To create an environment where they can speak up . Spot on. You would say, if you were a supervisor in any Police Service, if somebody makes a complaint about racism or sexism, you take it seriously. The point is creating an environment where people know that sort of behaviour is unacceptable so they dont use that sort of language. But also, simple things we can do. Speed up the process when a complaint is made. Make sure the hearings are heard much quicker. Make sure there is automatic suspension whenever a serious allegation is made but also dismissal, with some officers being found guilty. As i said, it is far too easy to become a Police Officer, with the huge powers they have. It is far too difficult to get rid of bad officers. But also the culture needs to change. And by the way, it isnt just a police issue. A lot of these institutions within our country have a systemic and cultural issues that demand addressing. One of the other things that the report finds, and i thought this was quite interesting because it wasjust looking at how crime is dealt with more generally, was about the fact that Wayne Couzens had been found guilty of Indecent Exposure, which in the old days people might have called flashing. And actually, we need a cultural change about how we deal with that crime. It is worse than that. He was never found guilty of Indecent Exposure because no one took it seriously. And here is the point she is making, which is a really important point. If there is a spectrum of offences, a red flag is somebody who indecently exposes. Because the Police Nationally it is a trivial offence, it is not really serious, it is somebody having fun dont take it that seriously, those red flags, those Early Warnings werent taken seriously. So it wasnt followed up, he wasnt arrested, he was not charged, he wasnt found guilty, he wasnt kicked out. And that is the point she is talking about. Police services across the country are not treating Indecent Exposure seriously. But this is an Early Warning red flag that the police must take seriously. So what are you going to do as the mayor of london to make sure that crime is taken more seriously on our Public Transport network, in our parks, in our streets . Many of your listeners who have used Public Transport will have seen the poster we have got report it to stop it. All three of us, when we use Public Transport, havent got the same shared experience as your women listeners. And girls. Im very conscious this is three blokes. Im very conscious this is three blokes having this conversation. Because in rush hour, weve never been touched up. Weve never had somebody taking a photograph up our skirts. Weve never had Somebody Acting inappropriately towards us, staring and so forth. So we have to educate ourselves as men, and its got to start early with boys at school in relation to understanding what sort of behaviour is acceptable and what behaviour isnt acceptable, but also we have to show allyship, because if you are woman or a girl, often on Public Transport, or it could be a nightclub, it could be a bar, it could be a place of work, often you need allyship because you are maybe by yourself and so we have done a lot of work in city hall to try and educate the public in a non patronising way. Lets talk about the other big news story this week that you found yourself at the centre of, involving lee anderson, the former Deputy Chairman of the conservatives, now a former conservative mp because he has lost the whip, to use the parliamentaryjargon. Lots we could ask you about your role scrutinising the metropolitan police, but lets talk about the human thing first, and how you felt in your head, in your heart, in your stomach when you first watched that video featuring lee anderson. We are speaking on thursday, and this happened six days ago. The last six days has been an emotional roller coaster. Sadness, anger, frustration. Upset. Heartbreak. Depending on which day of the week you and i would have spoken on, i would have given a different answer. Let me tell you why. There are certain conspiracy theories, certain tropes, certain generalisation, certain lazy untruths that are anti semitic, and we know what they are. Im not going to repeat them. You can apply the same towards misogyny and homophobia. You know what they are, im not going to repeat them. When you say things like muslims have taken over london or the islamification of our society, muslim sleeper cells, words like londonistan. Those are all islamophobic, anti muslim, racist phrases. They should be called out for what they are. You and i can have a discussion and you can robustly challenge me as respected journalist and me as the police and Crime Commissioner about policing in london. We can talk about all sorts of policies. We just talked about a really serious issue. In my view, my faith is irrelevant. And the fact that you are bringing my faith in means your motives are questionable. Now, let me share my heartbreak and my sadness. In real time, i have called out Anti Semitism in my party, including senior members of the labour party, in real time. Homophobia, misogyny. We talked about misogyny in the Police Service. This is islamophobic, anti muslim and racist. Where is the leader of the Conservative Party . Where is the deputy Prime Minister . Where is the cabinet . Where is my mayoral opponent . Well, they suspended lee from the party. Lets be quite clear about this. None of those people have mentioned having used the word islamophobic or anti muslim. Let me ask you this question. When the Prime Minister or deputy Prime Minister say it is wrong, it is unacceptable, why . He was suspended for a failure to apologise, for what . And i will tell you what, theres double standards are at play here because rightly we would call out anti semitic behaviour. We would call it out. Or homophobic or misogyny. Why are sunak, dowden, the cabinet, hall, so scared to say this is islamophobic, anti muslim and racist . And the distraction they have, and it is a distraction, it is sophistry, is we dont like the definition of islamophobia. This is blasphemy by the back door. That is ridiculous. Because the same arguments used against corbyn and co when they refused to accept the definition of Anti Semitism. That was the definition that was come up with by the ihra. I accepted that as the mayor straight away. This definition was come up with by the United Nations, the all Party Parliamentary group and others, but even park that, dont use the word islamophobic, call it anti Muslim Hatred, call it racism. Why are they failing to do so . There is a few things there. First of all, the definition, it is there no valid is there no valid criticism of that definition . Is there no valid reason why you as a person or as an organisation might not want to sign up to it fully . The all Party Parliamentary group looked into this, the United Nations looked into this, the short answer is, nobody is saying that the religion of islam deserves protection. This aint about protecting islam, its not blasphemy by the back door, it is about protecting the followers of the religion of islam, Brackets Muslims close brackets. Let me be clear, if my name was cohen, right, name was cohen, and this guy said that i was controlled by my mates in the city, what would be the first thing that sunak would have said . What was the first thing he would have said . It is anti semitic, kick him out. Right . How is khan, i am controlled by whatever he said, how is that different . Why do you think it is interpreted as different by some . I think that is for sunak and dowden and some of the others to explain. There is a number of explanations i have been given over the last six days by Friends Of Mine who are in the Conservative Party and it is really important to say this on air. I have been contacted by friends in the Conservative Party who are outraged. It should notjust be for the likes of sajid javid, nusrat ghani and Sayeeda Warsi to be brave in their party, just like in my party it was unacceptable for louise ellman, Luciana Berger and ruth smeeth to be talking about this. They need allies like me and others who are allies in real time. So thats the first thing. Im not saying, im really not saying this, that all conservatives are islamophobic come all the rest of it and stuff, im not saying that, im not Accusing Sunak of Being Islamophobic or anti muslim or racist. What im saying is what this guy said last friday was and it should be called out. The explanations i have been given is because, hold on a second if you look back at what he said, it is fascinating. I didnt realise this until somebody pointed it out to me. The reason why he began talking about this was he was saying suella braverman, the immediate last home secretary,