think everybody accepts, or a lot of people accept you wouldn't make every decision in an absolutely perfect way in an unprecedented situation, but it's that sense of did borisjohnson and his number 10 operation understand how big covid was early enough? did they make the first lockdown decision quickly enough and did they learn lessons as they were going on? there have been all these claims about borisjohnson being dismissive of some of the science, talking about letting the bodies pile high, suggesting old people should be allowed to get the virus to allow young people to go about their daily business. that all matters because a guest at the heart of the decision—making process. it was the prime minister at the time taking it seriously enough and therefore making the right calls when he needed to? that's what the next couple of days all about. you mentioned — next couple of days all about. you mentioned some _ next couple of days all about. you mentioned some of those awkward moments borisjohnson will have to answerfor, the whatsapp messages, the real crass comments that were made admittedly behind closed doors and were never really meant to see the light of day, we had patrick vallance's dai rees, plenty has come out about that and how things were working in the background and some of these crass statements that were made —— dai rees. as he said there were never meant to be seen. boris johnson i suspect never meant for any of his whatsapp messages to be heard. but i guess it never comes as a surprise that some of these things will be really uncomfortable for many of the protesters to hear, but that kind of fits with his personality, to have a bit of a joke, which doesn't necessarily mean he was underplaying it, it was maybe a coping mechanism. because at the end of the day borisjohnson and his team were all human as well and these were unprecedented times. maybe his coping mechanism was having a bit of a laugh about it because the situation was so awful. are we being too prudish byjudging him? the are we being too prudish by “udging him? , ., , ., ., ., him? the questions about language are important— him? the questions about language are important because _ him? the questions about language are important because they - him? the questions about language are important because they go - him? the questions about language are important because they go to i him? the questions about language l are important because they go to the heart of the culture in number 10. i think a lot of people won't be surprised to hear that political aides under a lot of stress swear a lot and often use pretty crass language. one of the other thing that kept coming up, helen mcnamara, former senior civil servant, was suggesting that there was a sign of something more widespread. that actually the decision—making process was dominated by men, was a bit misogynist, so a lot of things were being forgotten about like childcare, lack access to abortion and things like that over the course of the early months of the pandemic. so it is serious in that sense. i think the wider reason it is serious... think the wider reason it is serious- - -_ think the wider reason it is serious... �* ., ., , serious... i'm going to stop you there because _ serious... i'm going to stop you there because i _ serious. .. i'm going to stop you there because i think— serious... i'm going to stop you there because i think the - serious... i'm going to stop you there because i think the big i serious... i'm going to stop you - there because i think the big moment is about to begin an borisjohnson is about to begin an borisjohnson is about to start giving evidence here at the covid inquiry. so as to allow the sharing of materials prior to hearings to in those most involved in the inquiry process. failing to respect confidentiality undermines the inquiry�*s ability to do itsjob fairly, effectively undermines the inquiry�*s ability to do its job fairly, effectively and independently.— do its job fairly, effectively and indeendentl. . ~ ., independently. thank you. today's witnesses boris _ independently. thank you. today's witnesses boris johnson. - independently. thank you. today's witnesses boris johnson. i - independently. thank you. today's witnesses boris johnson. i swear l independently. thank you. today's| witnesses boris johnson. i swear by almiuh witnesses boris johnson. i swear by almighty god _ witnesses boris johnson. i swear by almighty god that _ witnesses boris johnson. i swear by almighty god that the _ witnesses boris johnson. i swear by almighty god that the evidence - witnesses boris johnson. i swear by almighty god that the evidence i i almighty god that the evidence i shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. could you commence your evidence, please, by giving us your full name? alexander boris de pfeffeljohnson. thank you, mrjohnson. thank you for attending today and thank you for the provision of your witness statement 255836 dated 3ist the provision of your witness statement 255836 dated 31st august, as you know, and it contains the usual declaration as to the truth of its contest no contents on the final page, i think page 233. mrjohnson, you were, of course, prime minister between 24th ofjuly 2019 when you are invited to form an administration following the resignation of theresa may as leader of the conservative party and the 6th of september 2022 menu you have announce your resignation earlier that year on the 7th ofjuly. is that year on the 7th ofjuly. is that correct?— that year on the 7th ofjuly. is that correct? , , ~ that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. b our that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. by your leave. — that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. by your leave. my _ that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. by your leave, my lady, - that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. by your leave, my lady, can - that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. by your leave, my lady, can i - that correct? yes, it is, mr keith. by your leave, my lady, can ijustj by your leave, my lady, can ijust say how glad i am to be at this inquiry and how sorry i am for the pain and the loss and the suffering... pain and the loss and the suffering. . ._ pain and the loss and the sufferinu... ., , ., pain and the loss and the sufferin: . .. ., , ., ,, suffering... please, sit down! sit down. please _ suffering... please, sit down! sit down. please sit _ suffering... please, sit down! sit down. please sit down _ suffering... please, sit down! sit down. please sit down or- suffering... please, sit down! sit i down. please sit down or i'm afraid youfl— down. please sit down or i'm afraid you'll have — down. please sit down or i'm afraid youll have to — down. please sit down or i'm afraid you'll have to leave _ down. please sit down or i'm afraid you'll have to leave the _ down. please sit down or i'm afraid you'll have to leave the hearing - you'll have to leave the hearing room — you'll have to leave the hearing room i'm — you'll have to leave the hearing room i'm sorry, _ you'll have to leave the hearing room. i'm sorry, if— you'll have to leave the hearing room. i'm sorry, if you - you'll have to leave the hearing room. i'm sorry, if you don't i you'll have to leave the hearing j room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down _ room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down and — room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down and going _ room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down and going to _ room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down and going to ask- room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit down and going to ask the - room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit. down and going to ask the asher's room. i'm sorry, if you don't sit - down and going to ask the asher's to -et down and going to ask the asher's to get you _ down and going to ask the asher's to get you to _ down and going to ask the asher's to get you to leavo _ down and going to ask the asher's to get you to leave. right, _ down and going to ask the asher's to get you to leave. right, asher's, - get you to leave. right, asher's, please _ get you to leave. right, asher's, please could _ get you to leave. right, asher's, please could you _ get you to leave. right, asher's, please could you ask— get you to leave. right, asher's, please could you ask them - get you to leave. right, asher's, - please could you ask them to leave? -- ushers _ —— ushers. could - —— ushers. could i- —— ushers. l could i say, —— ushers. - could i say, by your leave, that i understand the feelings of these victims and their families and i understand the feelings of these victims and theirfamilies and i am deeply sorry for the pain and the loss and the suffering of those victims and their families. loss and the suffering of those victims and theirfamilies. i'm grateful that i am to the hundreds of thousands of health care workers and many other public servants and people in all walks of life that protect our country throughout the pandemic i do hope that this inquiry will help to get the answers to the very difficult questions that those victims and those families are rightly asking so that we can protect ourselves better, help each other to help protect ourselves better in the future and prevent further suffering. and if it is not too impertinent, as you rightly say, mr keith, as the person who set up this inquiry, how grateful i am to you for what you are doing and the immense care you are plainly taking. thank you. mr immense care you are plainly taking. thank ou. ~ g ., , immense care you are plainly taking. thank ou. ~ , ., thank you. mrjohnson, 'ust a few more questions h thank you. mrjohnson, 'ust a few more questions more, _ thank you. mrjohnson, just a few more questions more, please - thank you. mrjohnson, just a few. more questions more, please come thank you. mrjohnson, just a few- more questions more, please come in relation to your career. on the 9th ofjune 2023, did you announce your intention to stand down as the member of parliament for uxbridge and south ruislip, you then i think formally resigned the following monday 12th ofjune when you appointed steward and bailiff of the 3005 appointed steward and bailiff of the 300s of cheltenham and you were previously foreign secretary and mayor of london? you correctly observe that you announced the institution of the statutory inquiry on the 12th of may 2021. you ordered the institution of a full and independent public inquiry, did you not? i independent public inquiry, did you not? ~ �* , not? i did, mr keith. and i believe that's the right _ not? i did, mr keith. and i believe that's the right way _ not? i did, mr keith. and i believe that's the right way forward. - not? i did, mr keith. and i believej that's the right way forward. when ou made that's the right way forward. when you made that announcement - that's the right way forward. wish you made that announcement you said this, "amid such tragedy the state has an obligation to examine its actions as rigorously and candidly as possible. " the number of deaths across the united kingdom calculated whether by registration on the death certificate through covid, or the measure of excess deaths, is now over 230,000. measure of excess deaths, is now over230,000. by measure of excess deaths, is now over 230,000. by any measure, mr johnson, that is a shocking figure and a terrible loss of life. is that the tragedy to which you were referring when you said "in this tragedy the state has an obligation to examine its actions?" that tragedy the state has an obligation to examine its actions?"— to examine its actions?" that is certainly the — to examine its actions?" that is certainly the core _ to examine its actions?" that is certainly the core of _ to examine its actions?" that is certainly the core of the - to examine its actions?" that is. certainly the core of the tragedy, yes. do certainly the core of the tragedy, es. y ., certainly the core of the tragedy, es. , ., ., certainly the core of the tragedy, es. i. ., ., yes. do you agree that if the protection — yes. do you agree that if the protection of _ yes. do you agree that if the protection of life _ yes. do you agree that if the protection of life is - yes. do you agree that if the protection of life is the - protection of life is the pre—eminent duty that every government owes to its citizens than the number of those who died is an important, if not the most important marker against which your administration must be measured? i certainly think it was what we were trying to prevent, the loss of life, absolutely. trying to prevent, the loss of life, absolutely-— absolutely. the virus left in its wake, of course, _ absolutely. the virus left in its wake, of course, not - absolutely. the virus left in its wake, of course, notjust - absolutely. the virus left in its| wake, of course, notjust death absolutely. the virus left in its - wake, of course, notjust death but injury and misery and indirectly through the knockdowns it left pain and incalculable economic and societal damage. where those and are those impacts which you also envisaged this inquiry would look at when you ordered its institution? {lit when you ordered its institution? of course. do when you ordered its institution? of course- do you _ when you ordered its institution? of course. do you accept, _ when you ordered its institution? of course. do you accept, and - when you ordered its institution? of course. do you accept, and we - when you ordered its institution? 0f| course. do you accept, and we make when you ordered its institution? of i course. do you accept, and we make i think, course. do you accept, and we make i think. presume _ course. do you accept, and we make i think, presume from _ course. do you accept, and we make i think, presume from your— course. do you accept, and we make i think, presume from your opening - think, presume from your opening remarks that you do, do you accept that the bereaved and those who suffered, of whom there are very many in numberare suffered, of whom there are very many in number are entitled to no less than an absolutely full and rigorous scrutiny? {lit less than an absolutely full and rigorous scrutiny?— less than an absolutely full and - rigorous scrutiny?_ when rigorous scrutiny? of course. when ou made rigorous scrutiny? of course. when you made that _ rigorous scrutiny? of course. when you made that announcement, - rigorous scrutiny? of course. when you made that announcement, he i rigorous scrutiny? of course. when i you made that announcement, he also said that this process will place the state's actions under the microscope and the government would be required to disclose all relevant information. in light of those words, could ijust ask you pleased to confirm what your approach has been to the disclosure of your own covid related e—mails, what saps and notes? covid related e-mails, what saps and notes? �* ., , , , ., notes? i've done my best to give everything _ notes? i've done my best to give everything of _ notes? i've done my best to give everything of any _ notes? i've done my best to give everything of any conceivable - everything of any conceivable relevance. everything of any conceivable relevance-— everything of any conceivable relevance. ., ~ relevance. has your position, mr johnson? yes- — relevance. has your position, mr johnson? yes. and _ relevance. has your position, mr johnson? yes. and we _ relevance. has your position, mr johnson? yes. and we have - relevance. has your position, mr . johnson? yes. and we have 265619, .aet johnson? yes. and we have 265619, -a~e 68, johnson? yes. and we have 265619, page 68, please? —— could we have. this is a whatsapp between your former permanent secretary in number 10 and then latterly cabinet secretary and your principal private secretary and your principal private secretary simon case and respectively martin reynolds, and the cabinet secretary said the prime minister is mad if he doesn't think is what saps will become public via the covid inquiry. he was clearly not in the mood for that discussion tonight —— whatsapps. that date, 20th of december 2021, was just five days after you had in fact appointed milady as the chair of this inquiry. was there a debate at that time within government as to whether or not your whatsapps should be disclosed, and if so whether or not they would be public by virtue of they would be public by virtue of the disclosure in this process? i don't remember that conversation to which the cabinet secretary is referring. and i've handed over all the relevant whatsapps. the inquiry has indeed requested _ the relevant whatsapps. the inquiry has indeed requested all— the relevant whatsapps. the inquiry has indeed requested all the - the relevant whatsapps. the inquiry has indeed requested all the key - has indeed requested all the key covid related texts, whatsapps and so on from january to february 2022, they must made absolutely clear that throughout the course of the litigation in the summer and throughout these proceedings you have made available it would seem everything in your possession. you made clear, i think, through your solicitor however, that you had a phone which you used from may 2021 and you have made available to whatsapps and e—mails from that phone, therefore, between may 21 and february 22, the period the inquiry was requesting about. but following a well—publicised security breach you had not been able to access the previous phone because you had stopped using it and you are fearful that if you tried to access it you would delete its data? is that right? would delete its data? is that riuht? . �* , would delete its data? is that right?_ were - would delete its data? is that right?_ were you | would delete its data? is that - right?_ were you able right? that's right. were you able to net right? that's right. were you able to get access _ right? that's right. were you able to get access to _ right? that's right. were you able to get access to the _ right? that's right. were you able to get access to the contents - right? that's right. were you able to get access to the contents of l to get access to the contents of that first phone, the old phone? yes, we sent it off to some tech technical people and they activated it. . ., , ., technical people and they activated it. . . , ., ., , technical people and they activated it. was there a time gap as your solicitor described _ it. was there a time gap as your solicitor described it, _ it. was there a time gap as your solicitor described it, on - it. was there a time gap as your solicitor described it, on that. solicitor described it, on that phonein solicitor described it, on that phone in a period between the 30th of january 2020 and june 2020 during which time the whatsapps have not been capable of being... x�*feg. which time the whatsapps have not been capable of being. . ._ been capable of being... yes. reinstalled _ been capable of being... yes. reinstalled and _ been capable of being... yes. reinstalled and disclosed? - been capable of being... yes. | reinstalled and disclosed? that's riuht. do reinstalled and disclosed? that's right- do you _ reinstalled and disclosed? that's right. do you know _ reinstalled and disclosed? that's right. do you know why _ reinstalled and disclosed? that's right. do you know why your - reinstalled and disclosed? that's i right. do you know why your phone was missing _ right. do you know why your phone was missing those _ right. do you know why your phone was missing those 5000 _ right. do you know why your phone was missing those 5000 odd - was missing those 5000 odd whatsapps? i was missing those 5000 odd whatsapps?— was missing those 5000 odd whatsapps? was missing those 5000 odd whatsa s? ., �* ~ ., whatsapps? i don't know the exact reason but it _ whatsapps? i don't know the exact reason bu