expect _ areas. you see it would be wrong to expect that — areas. you see it would be wrong to expect that any future scientific adviser — expect that any future scientific adviser would have specialist knowledge on political or epidemiological matters. given your no doubt _ epidemiological matters. given your no doubt fortuitous experience in medicine — no doubt fortuitous experience in medicine and pharmacological matters did you _ medicine and pharmacological matters did you on _ medicine and pharmacological matters did you on reflection think that you played _ did you on reflection think that you played a _ did you on reflection think that you played a greater role in responding to this _ played a greater role in responding to this pandemic and perhaps you might— to this pandemic and perhaps you might have done if you speciality had been — might have done if you speciality had been different? i might have done if you speciality had been different?— might have done if you speciality had been different? i think the role would still be _ had been different? i think the role would still be to _ had been different? i think the role would still be to cheer _ had been different? i think the role would still be to cheer sage, - had been different? i think the role would still be to cheer sage, and i would still be to cheer sage, and during health emergency that is done together with the chief medical officer, that would have continued, inevitably there were some aspects of what i did when i was called in, because of my particular knowledge, particularly around vaccines where i had a role which i don't think in any way would be something that the gcse would normally do, and definitely i had more knowledge of some of the areas being discussed than at gc ac would have in day—to—day activities in this particular emergency. looking forward, given first of all the profound effect that the pandemic had on this country, and also the _ pandemic had on this country, and also the certainty that there will be another pandemic in due course, do you _ be another pandemic in due course, do you think— be another pandemic in due course, do you think it is right that the chief— do you think it is right that the chief scientific adviser should continue _ chief scientific adviser should continue to be selected as someone who n1ay_ continue to be selected as someone who ntay or— continue to be selected as someone who may or may not have a medical background — who may or may not have a medical background or do you think that the person— background or do you think that the person fulfilling that function ought — person fulfilling that function ought to have some relevant expertise that would be useful when the next _ expertise that would be useful when the next pandemic arrives? | expertise that would be useful when the next pandemic arrives?— the next pandemic arrives? i don't think gcsa — the next pandemic arrives? i don't think gcsa role _ the next pandemic arrives? i don't think gcsa role is _ the next pandemic arrives? i don't think gcsa role is primarily - the next pandemic arrives? i don't think gcsa role is primarily for - think gcsa role is primarily for pandemic preparedness. the great crisis that all governments face for the next many decades is the climate. you could equally well argue that she would have somebody who has that expertise. i think the gcsa should be appointed on scientific knowledge and breadth and ability to work across areas and there should be no expectation that gcsa is necessarily expert in this area. finally on this introductory section. _ finally on this introductory section, we haven't mentioned so far professor— section, we haven't mentioned so far professor whitty. we think back to that time _ professor whitty. we think back to that time to a greater or lesser extent— that time to a greater or lesser extent you performed those functions jointly— extent you performed those functions jointly with him. it _ jointly with him. it is _ jointly with him. it is a _ jointly with him. it is a difference, the chief medical officer role is solely focused on matters of health and has a particular remit for public health and is embedded in the department of health and social care. it is a departmental role, a very senior role, a rather older role in the gcsa role in terms of the government, and that has an overall accountability for that. and to some extent is closer to policy questions as well, as the medical advice is given. this is a theme i wanted to explore briefty. _ this is a theme i wanted to explore briefly. and — this is a theme i wanted to explore briefly, and if we can look at paragraph 98, page 34, about half the way— paragraph 98, page 34, about half the way down, you refer to the dha see as _ the way down, you refer to the dha see as being the leeds government department for pandemic planning and operations. _ department for pandemic planning and operations, you see it would be appropriate for you to become involved — appropriate for you to become involved in operational delivery ptans, — involved in operational delivery plans, and then you make the point that the _ plans, and then you make the point that the cmo and one of his deputies in infectious diseases experts, epidemiologists, and then you refer to the _ epidemiologists, and then you refer to the chairperson of near tag, and so on. _ to the chairperson of near tag, and so on. but — to the chairperson of near tag, and so on, but generally, whether particular— so on, but generally, whether particular areas where professor whitty _ particular areas where professor whitty took the lead to, as it were, between _ whitty took the lead to, as it were, between the two of you in responding to the _ between the two of you in responding to the pandemic? can— to the pandemic? can i— to the pandemic? can i first make the point that operational delivery is outside the scope of gcsa, it is a science advice role, not a policy or operational role. cmo and many of the other experts from dhs c took the other experts from dhs c took the lead in things in the department and worked in the driving seat in the initial phase injanuary when this was a departmentally led response. at all times this cmo would take the lead in clinical matters, matters relating to medicine, nhs, otherthings which were outside my remit. he was deeply expert in this, when you see this, you mean epidemiology and epidemiology and spread of infections? yes. there is a press conference the families of two hostages currently being held in gaza. we have today with us, joining us,... he is 28 yea rs years old, and we have the father of one of the horse —— we have the father of a nine—year—old girl who was kidnapped from a kibbutz. and the mother of a hostage kidnapped from the festival. and also someone who lost five members of herfamily in and also someone who lost five members of her family in the and also someone who lost five members of herfamily in the hamas terror attack. she is seeking to raise awareness of the dyas borough which stands in solidarity with israel. it is very important to us to be here _ it is very important to us to be here today. we left our families who needed _ here today. we left our families who needed as— here today. we left our families who needed as in israel and we came here to share _ needed as in israel and we came here to share with — needed as in israel and we came here to share with you what happened on our hotiday. — to share with you what happened on our holiday, october seven. on this day we _ our holiday, october seven. on this day we lost — our holiday, october seven. on this day we lost four members of our family— day we lost four members of our family in— day we lost four members of our family in one day. in the morning one of— family in one day. in the morning one of them was one of the first probably— one of them was one of the first probably to get the notice that terrorists were coming in. they ran to the _ terrorists were coming in. they ran to the safe — terrorists were coming in. they ran to the safe room of the kibbutz to take the _ to the safe room of the kibbutz to take the weapon, managed to take the weapon, _ take the weapon, managed to take the weapon, on— take the weapon, managed to take the weapon, on its way to meet the terrorists. — weapon, on its way to meet the terrorists, they met him, next to his house, — terrorists, they met him, next to his house, below an olive tree, and there _ his house, below an olive tree, and there were — his house, below an olive tree, and there were terrorists, a few tens of terrorists. — there were terrorists, a few tens of terrorists, and they shot and killed him immediately. then they continued, a few houses up in the hill, and _ continued, a few houses up in the hill, and they killed his mother in law _ hill, and they killed his mother in law she — hill, and they killed his mother in law. shejust hill, and they killed his mother in law. she just went out to pick her phone _ law. she just went out to pick her phone from — law. she just went out to pick her phone from her scooter and she was kitted _ phone from her scooter and she was kitted 81 _ phone from her scooter and she was killed. 81 years old. my _ killed. 81 years old. my brother was the mayor of the municipality, a well known piece seeker. — municipality, a well known piece seeker, invested all of his life —— peace _ seeker, invested all of his life —— peace seeker, they visited him on a weekly— peace seeker, they visited him on a weekly basis in his house, and he wasjust_ weekly basis in his house, and he wasjust about to weekly basis in his house, and he was just about to build an industrial centre for 10,000 palestinians in his municipality. he was supposed to start the building five days _ was supposed to start the building five days later. they didn't finish, because _ five days later. they didn't finish, because from that point they went to the youth _ because from that point they went to the youth area, where young people live together, each and every one, 19-22 _ live together, each and every one, 19-22 years— live together, each and every one, 19—22 years old are getting a small house, _ 19—22 years old are getting a small house, with a living room and bedroom _ house, with a living room and bedroom. the bedroom is also the safe room. — bedroom. the bedroom is also the safe room, and they started to bombard — safe room, and they started to bombard this area. i have pictures for you _ bombard this area. i have pictures for you and — bombard this area. i have pictures for you and i— bombard this area. i have pictures for you and i took a few days later. they— for you and i took a few days later. they ruined — for you and i took a few days later. they ruined the whole neighbourhood, usin- they ruined the whole neighbourhood, using missiles, grenades, and shot everyone — using missiles, grenades, and shot everyone. they went into the i’ooiti room of peace and his fiancee, —— of neta, _ room of peace and his fiancee, —— of neta, the _ room of peace and his fiancee, —— of neta, the through a few grenades, open _ neta, the through a few grenades, open the _ neta, the through a few grenades, open the safe room and through a few more _ open the safe room and through a few more grenades inside the room. he managed _ more grenades inside the room. he managed to— more grenades inside the room. he managed to save his fiancee, who was then hiding _ managed to save his fiancee, who was then hiding below the bed for four and a _ then hiding below the bed for four and a hatt— then hiding below the bed for four and a half hours. they— and a half hours. they continue to shoot everyone in this area — they continue to shoot everyone in this area. then they came to the house _ this area. then they came to the house of— this area. then they came to the house of the second son of the mayor who died. _ house of the second son of the mayor who died, and they started to shoot everything — who died, and they started to shoot everything over there, and he was told to— everything over there, and he was told to hold the door of the safe room _ told to hold the door of the safe room so — told to hold the door of the safe room so they would not throw grenades _ room so they would not throw grenades into the room. he did it. and he _ grenades into the room. he did it. and he managed to survive a a few hours. _ and he managed to survive a a few hours. but — and he managed to survive a a few hours, but at 1130 they shot the door _ hours, but at 1130 they shot the door so — hours, but at 1130 they shot the door so many times, the bullets went in, door so many times, the bullets went in. because _ door so many times, the bullets went in, because it is not bullet—proof, and wounded him, and he was guided by his— and wounded him, and he was guided by his cousin — and wounded him, and he was guided by his cousin on how to rescue his life and _ by his cousin on how to rescue his life and stop — by his cousin on how to rescue his life and stop the bleeding. but from 230 we _ life and stop the bleeding. but from 230 we haven't heard back from him. and at— 230 we haven't heard back from him. and at four, — 230 we haven't heard back from him. and at four, only at four, the army arrived, _ and at four, only at four, the army arrived, to— and at four, only at four, the army arrived, to tell as that there were four terrorists in the living room, there _ four terrorists in the living room, there was— four terrorists in the living room, there was nobody in the bedroom, so we had _ there was nobody in the bedroom, so we had a _ there was nobody in the bedroom, so we had a feeling that he might be alive _ we had a feeling that he might be alive. from that point, for the next 12 days, _ alive. from that point, for the next 12 days, we — alive. from that point, for the next 12 days, we were searching for mitzan, — 12 days, we were searching for mitzan, in— 12 days, we were searching for mitzan, in the last few days hoping maybe _ mitzan, in the last few days hoping maybe they took him, maybe he was kidnapped. _ maybe they took him, maybe he was kidnapped, the municipality people called _ kidnapped, the municipality people called and said, he is not moving from _ called and said, he is not moving from the — called and said, he is not moving from the same position in the house, and they— from the same position in the house, and they ask— from the same position in the house, and they ask her to go and look what is happening, and her son went out, and found— is happening, and her son went out, and found his father dead below the olive tree _ and found his father dead below the olive tree. this man was fully invested _ olive tree. this man was fully invested in relationships with other people _ invested in relationships with other people from all around the world, he was travelling and building communities of friends, and in his funeral. _ communities of friends, and in his funeral, each and every person that arrived _ funeral, each and every person that arrived was — funeral, each and every person that arrived was talking about how loving arrived was talking about how loving a person— arrived was talking about how loving a person he — arrived was talking about how loving a person he was. a friend to the president — a person he was. a friend to the president of israel, a friend to all the big _ president of israel, a friend to all the big guys around the world, and a friend _ the big guys around the world, and a friend to _ the big guys around the world, and a friend to the — the big guys around the world, and a friend to the palestinians. i will close _ friend to the palestinians. i will close my— friend to the palestinians. i will close my notes by seeing the following. our lives kind of stopped in october— following. our lives kind of stopped in october the 7th. we are all at threes _ in october the 7th. we are all at threes -- — in october the 7th. we are all at threes -- att— in october the 7th. we are all at threes —— all at freeze, one goal, to bring _ threes —— all at freeze, one goal, to bring them back now, this is what unites— to bring them back now, this is what unites everyone in israel. we had the year— unites everyone in israel. we had the year of— unites everyone in israel. we had the year of self fighting in israel which _ the year of self fighting in israel which i — the year of self fighting in israel which i believe showed other people the weakness of not being united, but right— the weakness of not being united, but right now we are united, with one top— but right now we are united, with one top goal, to bring them back home _ one top goal, to bring them back home the — one top goal, to bring them back home. the second goal is of course to three _ home. the second goal is of course to three gaza from hamas, because they are _ to three gaza from hamas, because they are hostages by hamas. i believe — they are hostages by hamas. i believe that what we are doing over there. _ believe that what we are doing over there. i_ believe that what we are doing over there. i am — believe that what we are doing over there, i am a person of peace. i believe — there, i am a person of peace. i believe what we are doing over there hetps _ believe what we are doing over there helps the _ believe what we are doing over there helps the world in fighting an idea virus _ helps the world in fighting an idea virus called hamas, isis, and i think— virus called hamas, isis, and i think you _ virus called hamas, isis, and i think you see it over here in the parades, — think you see it over here in the parades, and it exists everywhere... we are _ parades, and it exists everywhere... we are leaving this press conference from the uk which gives traumatic and difficult accounts of the impact of the assault of hamas on october seven this year in southern israel. representatives there of two british hostages are still being held by hamas. let us return now to the covid inquiry, and patrick vallance who is giving evidence. to try and see if we could resolve this logjam. an e—mail exchange that you had with ben warner. you are coming back to what sir patrick— you are coming back to what sir patrick meant about operational response — patrick meant about operational response being not very effective. this is— response being not very effective. this is an — response being not very effective. this is an e—mail exchange, sir patrick, 27th of february, a month or thereabouts after the e—mail, and well into the time that it was, and ben warner says he is concerned that the nhs didn't seem to have started modelling, and your response, you had been pushing for this in the last ten days or so, you think they have no grasp that, there is a meeting planned for monday, they haven't defined the input variables well enough. taking a step to one side, you have already mentioned issues such as nhs capacity. was it really a complicated modelling exercise that was needed, or was there simply a basic mathematical exercise of, how many beds of the gut, at what point on our understanding of the pandemic will they be overwhelmed? is that complicated? in they be overwhelmed? is that complicated?— they be overwhelmed? is that complicated? they be overwhelmed? is that comlicated? ., . , , ., complicated? in one cents, it is not complicated. _ complicated? in one cents, it is not complicated, exercise _ complicated? in one cents, it is not complicated, exercise nimbus- complicated? in one cents, it is not complicated, exercise nimbus in . complicated? in one cents, it is