here's elizabeth rizzini. time for a look at the weather. hello, thank you. just the right amount of retreating command centre�* for hamas? tonight, the idf has shown the footage you just saw, which they say is part of a tunnel underneath the hospital. mark's here. it plays an important role in israel's case for its gaza operation, so how close are they in succeeding to their wider objectives? scotland's health secretary says his sons racked up his 11 grand bill on his parliamentary ipad. why is scotland's conservative leader calling for his resignation? we'll ask him. also tonight... why are so many maternity units in england deemed unsafe by the regulator? we'll hear from one couple whose baby daughter was stillborn, after failures by their hopsital. i thought, these are my colleagues, they'll do a good job, i'll get safe care. so i didn't think there was anything wrong, until we were told she was dead. and after a week of rows in this country over migrant policy, we're in america to ask if president biden is doing enough there to tackle what some call a "significant crisis" on the texas border, where two million migrants have been detained. good evening. israel tonight said it had found evidence of a tunnel shaft and a vehicle containing weapons inside the al—shifa hospital complex its troops have entered in northern gaza. hamas — the group proscribed by the uk as a terrorist organisation — has denied using the building as a military base. while al—shifa has become a central focus of the conflict, it's clear the humanitarian crisis is becoming absolutely desparate. is becoming absolutely desperate. "inhuman collective suffering" — the words of the united nations. "far too many palestinians have been killed" — the words of the us secretary of state. it's almost six weeks since hamas went into southern israel and killed 1,200 israelis and abducted around 240 people — the body of one, a mum—of—five, israel says it found today in gaza. the hamas—run health ministry says more than 11,500 palestinians have been killed. amidst all of this, tonight, we're going to try and answer these fresh questions: how is israel doing in achieving its aim of eliminating hamas? why haven't they shown journalists yet any evidence inside the tunnels they claim hamas has built under civilian structures, including hospitals? could the hostages have now been moved to the south, along with much of the gaza population, and presumably plenty of hamas fighters? and if so, what can, or should, israel do next? here's mark. the contents of the bag are full military kit - for one hamas terrorist. israel's guided tour of the shifa radiography department left many asking, "yes, but where are the tunnels?" nobody doubts the existence of a substantial tunnel network. hamas itself has publicised some of the facilities. since israeli forces have been operating in northern gaza, they've produced plenty of evidence of tunnel entrances being discovered. in many cases, they've blown up tunnels too. but what you won't see in these videos — including the one that appeared tonight from near the shifa — is israeli soldiers taking journalists or, indeed, going in themselves. now you can see the tunnel. they've explored them with robots, but as we saw in a video at the rantisi hospital on monday, a claim that a tunnel connected the basement to a local hamas commander's house was not substantiated. it's too risky, apparently, to go into the tunnels, so when it comes to the question of whether they extend under the shifa hospital, it's too early to say definitively. they're being slow and methodical, and that is in their risk to both civilian harm — because many parts of the shifa hospital are still occupied — and risk to all the other variables, even trying to isolate the underground, if there is an underground. the recovery of hostages is a key israeli war aim. this evening, it became clear that the israeli army had recovered the body ofjudith weiss, kidnapped on the 7th of october from a site near the hospital. but it's evident on megidish, a soldier freed last month, is the only one to have been rescued so far during the ground operation. hamas has claimed that some of the hostages have been killed in the bombardment, but what about the remainder? it'll be very hard for israel to claim a victory, unless it's released a significant number of hostages. the government hasn't prepared the citizens of israel for any scenario. not for the scenario in which some of the hostages may not return alive, not for a scenario which clearly should be contemplated, in which some of these hostages are not still in gaza and have been moved elsewhere, to other terror groups. this has happened in the past with israeli hostages. it happened in lebanon. so, i really don't see how israelis could even begin moving towards anything like closure. as for the shifa hospital, it's a large complex and israel apparently hasn't given up hope of finding hostages there, but there's a chance some will have been moved south, along with many members of hamas. by opening evacuation routes, the israelis may have allowed many members of the militant groups to go south in civilian clothes. i think you can mitigate that by the fact that you do search if they're leaving gaza in general, in that there will be operations in southern israel, nobody said there won't be, just the main centre of gravity, the main hamas stronghold was gaza city, so they started there. in the area where the israeli army is operating, they're reporting fewer encounters with hamas, as they tighten their grip. so if much of the group's armed wing is now south of the wadi gaza line, along with the great majority of the strip�*s 2.2 million people in a dire humanitarian situation, is an operation like the one we've seen in the north feasible? i really can't imagine it, certainly not after israel spent six weeks loudly calling on gazans from gaza city, which has been destroyed, and from all of northern gaza to move south. i simply don't think israel would have the legitimacy to do that. i'm not saying that israel isn't taking action and won't continue to take some action in the south, especially if they have specific information about specific hamas individuals who are there. but i can't imagine an operation of the magnitude of what we've seen in the past two weeks occurring in the south. the challenges facing the israeli operation remain considerable, but as they're all too aware, international disquiet at the civilian suffering that it's causing could still cut it short. mark urban. let's speak now to eylon levy — an israeli government spokesperson — about the al—shifa hopsital and about how close, or otherwise, the israeli defense force is to achieveing its stated aim of eliminiating hamas. thank you very much was speaking to our audience. thank you very much was speaking to ouraudience. is thank you very much was speaking to our audience. is this the extent of what you say is evidence that this is an operational command centre or is an operational command centre or is there more you are going to show journalists? film. is there more you are going to show journalists?— journalists? 0h, absolutely. we ex - ect journalists? 0h, absolutely. we exect in journalists? 0h, absolutely. we meet in the — journalists? 0h, absolutely. we expect in the days _ journalists? 0h, absolutely. we expect in the days to _ journalists? 0h, absolutely. we expect in the days to come - journalists? 0h, absolutely. we expect in the days to come the l journalists? 0h, absolutely. we i expect in the days to come the full extent of hamas's takeover of the shifa is going to become apparent. it has only been 48 hours since we began that targeted operation inside the hospital above the shifa terror complex. of course, we can't reveal the whole fortress immediately, that is not how things work. today, we showed tunnel shoved under the hospital and we have showed tunnels under different hospitals, it is not a question that hamas views hospitals as human shields and we have exposed hamas war crimes across the gaza strip. the tunnels under the gaza strip. the tunnels under the beds of children. today, soldiers found rockets underneath a girl's mattress in a child's matters and in the hospitals, we are continuing to do that and i hope your cruise will be able to enter those areas when it is safe to do so. . , those areas when it is safe to do so, ., , , ., those areas when it is safe to do so. , those areas when it is safe to do so. i, so. there was some disparity between what bbc journalists _ so. there was some disparity between what bbc journalists were _ so. there was some disparity between what bbc journalists were filming - what bbcjournalists were filming last night and what the idf had initially posted on twitter. i’m last night and what the idf had initially posted on twitter. i'm not familiar with _ initially posted on twitter. i'm not familiar with what _ initially posted on twitter. i'm not familiar with what that _ initially posted on twitter. i'm not familiar with what that specific - familiar with what that specific disparity was. this is of course a fast—moving war zone. i disparity was. this is of course a fast-moving war zone.— fast-moving war zone. i will tell ou it fast-moving war zone. i will tell you it looks _ fast-moving war zone. i will tell you it looks like _ fast-moving war zone. i will tell you it looks like there _ fast-moving war zone. i will tell you it looks like there were - fast-moving war zone. i will tell| you it looks like there were more weapons when our bbcjournalists went a few hours after the first idf tweet. i went a few hours after the first idf tweet. . ., ., ., ., tweet. i am not familiar with that specifically- _ tweet. i am not familiar with that specifically. of _ tweet. i am not familiar with that specifically. of course, _ tweet. i am not familiar with that specifically. of course, we - tweet. i am not familiar with that i specifically. of course, we continue specifically. of course, we continue to expose the evidence of hamas war crimes and the wait has been abusing those civilian institutions for the last 16 years, building its military infrastructure under hospitals and schools and mosques and homes, endangering people, endangering the people we have been urging to move south for the safety so we can target the monsters who perpetrated the october to seventh massacre and minimise any harm to civilians. the jerusalem post _ minimise any harm to civilians. the jerusalem post has asked how 2,000 hamas fighters have seemingly evaporated. it is possible, likely they will have moved to sell potentially with the hostages and along with over a million gazans who you are asked to move south, is that where the idf will go next?— where the idf will go next? you're riaht, where the idf will go next? you're riuht, it where the idf will go next? you're riaht, it is where the idf will go next? you're right. it is a _ where the idf will go next? you're right. it is a very — where the idf will go next? you're right, it is a very important - where the idf will go next? you're right, it is a very important point. | right, it is a very important point. israel has been making extraordinary efforts to try to get civilians to safety in ways that have jeopardised our operational advantage. when we gave civilians a month to vacate cell, we clearly surrendered to the element of surprise. and by providing those humanitarian corridors and urging people to move south, as your reporter said, it is quite possible that hamas disguised to civilians, we know that is something they do, exploited that. if that's true and i don't know if it is or not, how will you know when you have achieved your aim of eliminating hamas? you you have achieved your aim of eliminating hamas?— you have achieved your aim of eliminating hamas? you put your finer eliminating hamas? you put your finger exactly _ eliminating hamas? you put your finger exactly on _ eliminating hamas? you put your finger exactly on the _ eliminating hamas? you put your finger exactly on the point - eliminating hamas? you put your finger exactly on the point of- eliminating hamas? you put your finger exactly on the point of why this is such a difficult and complex operation. the this is such a difficult and complex 0 eration. , ., .,, ., operation. the question was, how will ou operation. the question was, how will you know _ operation. the question was, how will you know if _ operation. the question was, how will you know if you _ operation. the question was, how will you know if you have - operation. the question was, how| will you know if you have achieved success? , , ., ., , , success? this is going to be very difficult. success? this is going to be very difficult- we _ success? this is going to be very difficult. we are _ success? this is going to be very difficult. we are fighting - success? this is going to be very difficult. we are fighting against| success? this is going to be veryl difficult. we are fighting against a cynical enemy that embeds itself in civilian areas, passes its own its own fighters offer civilians and makes it very difficult for us to target those terrorists. that doesn't change success? this is going to be very difficult. we are fighting against a cynical enemy that embeds itself in civilian areas, passes its own promising to pull off another massacre. but of course, you correctly point out this is a very difficult challenge because of the way they systematically abused and violate international law to gain unfair advantage. international law to gain unfair advantage-— international law to gain unfair advantaae. ., . ,. ., advantage. you have rescued one ouni advantage. you have rescued one young lsraeli _ advantage. you have rescued one young israeli soldier _ advantage. you have rescued one young israeli soldier taken - advantage. you have rescued one. young israeli soldier taken hostage and we just reported the body of is and we just reported the body of is a very difficult challenge because of the way they systematically abused and violate international law to gain unfair advantage. you have rescued one young israeli soldier taken hostage and we just reported the body of another hostage has been found in israel amongst families of hostages. found in israel amongst families of hosta . es. , . found in israel amongst families of hosta . es. ,. ., found in israel amongst families of hostaues. ., , ., hostages. one said that your prime minister was _ hostages. one said that your prime minister was abandoning _ hostages. one said that your prime minister was abandoning them. - hostages. one said that your prime | minister was abandoning them. why haven't you rescued more? intense angen haven't you rescued more? intense anger, intense despair, we wish that now it has been 40 days and 40 nights, we could have got our hands on those hostages. but hamas has been planning for this for a very long time, hamas has built a subterranean maze of tunnels underneath gaza city preparing for the day when they could abduct israelis and hold them there. that tunnel network is extremely dangerous, it is booby—trapped to the eyeballs and very dangerous and soldiers to go in there. we wish it were as simple as the raid back in the 1970s when israel could sweep into an airport and rescue hostages, but hamas has taken our hostages, our children, our babies, there is a ten—month—old baby being held, some of the most vulnerable people of society, the hostage you mentioned that was murdered by hamas is a cancer patient. and they are holding them in inhumane conditions without any access to the red cross and bringing our hostages home is one of the top priorities of this war and undoubtedly one of the greatest challenges. undoubtedly one of the greatest challenres. ., ~ undoubtedly one of the greatest challenges-— undoubtedly one of the greatest challenres. ., ~ , ., , . undoubtedly one of the greatest challenres. ., ~ , . ., challenges. thank you very much for talkin: to challenges. thank you very much for talking to us — challenges. thank you very much for talking to us tonight, _ challenges. thank you very much for talking to us tonight, thank- challenges. thank you very much for talking to us tonight, thank you, - talking to us tonight, thank you, eylon levy, spokesperson for the israeli government. we can talk now to mustafa barghouti, a politician from the palestinian national initiative — about what future they see for gaza when the military operation by israel is over. they are calling for democratic governance of the west bank and gaza. thank you very much for talking to us. let me ask you first what you are hearing from the al—shifa hospital. i are hearing from the al-shifa hos - ital. ~ ., are hearing from the al-shifa hosital. ~ . ., , , hospital. i think what happened in al-shifa hospital— hospital. i think what happened in al-shifa hospital is _ hospital. i think what happened in al-shifa hospital is a _ hospital. i think what happened in al-shifa hospital is a big - hospital. i think what happened in al-shifa hospital is a big scandal. al—shifa hospital is a big scandal for the israelis. it is actually the mother of all scandals, they have been talking about operational command centre, they have been talking about hostages kept there. they couldn't prove anything, nothing. this is not my opinion, this is the opinion of the new york times, cnn, people who accompanied them. they couldn't show any evidence, theyjust fabricated evidence, they just fabricated things. evidence, theyjust fabricated things. and then they used propaganda. things. and then they used propaganda-— things. and then they used propaganda. things. and then they used --roaranda. ., ~ ., , ., propaganda. you know it is a huge... what he has — propaganda. you know it is a huge... what he hasjust _ propaganda. you know it is a huge... what he has just told _ propaganda. you know it is a huge... what he hasjust told you _ propaganda. you know it is a huge... what he hasjust told you is - propaganda. you know it is a huge... what he hasjust told you is pure - what he has just told you is pure propaganda. they refused our calls and the cause of the administration of the hospital before they invaded it to send an international, independent commission to examine. let me pause you there if i may you will have heard the israeli government spokesman saying there is more to come. we know this is a huge complex and you know it is a huge complex, they have only searched parts of it, the idf say and there are still many patients inside. ida. are still many patients inside. no, wh did are still many patients inside. no, why did they _ are still many patients inside. iifr, why did they refuse an international, independent commission? because they know they are lying. and why do they need more time? because they need time to fabricate things. they can't prove anything because what they say is propaganda and not the truth. and this really has become the second scandal about what they are doing. they are not attacking hamas, they are attacking hospitals. they have attacked every hospital in the north of gaza and the centre of gaza because they are conducting ethnic cleansing of the population of the north of gaza and the gaza city. they cannot justify. .. north of gaza and the gaza city. they cannotjustify. . ._ they cannot 'ustify. .. they gave warnin . s they cannot 'ustify. .. they gave warnings to— they cannot justify. .. they gave warnings to people. _ they cannot justify. .. they gave warnings to people. we - they cannot justify. .. they gave warnings to people. we have i they cannot justify. .. they gave | warnings to people. we have run through what they say each evening. i want to ask you, i know you are calling for a ceasefire. if that happened... please let me ask the question. if that happened, what do you want to see for gaza after that? before i say that, i want to tell you that the israeli army have killed already 6400 palestinian children. 12,000 people. 42,000 people have been killed and injured ljy people have been killed and injured by israel. that is 2% of the population of the gaza strip. is that an attack on hamas or the civilian population of gaza? if that has happened in the united states of america, you will be talking about 6 million people killed or injured in less then six weeks. this is unacceptable. it is an atrocity, it is an act of genocide and it has to stop. and this israeli propaganda is convincing nobody. 0nce stop. and this israeli propaganda is convincing nobody. once this is over, and i hope this will be over very soon, when the united states of america and the government of britain stop opposing a ceasefire, which i don't understand why they are opposing. 0nce which i don't understand why they are opposing. once that happens, the palestinian people have to decide on their own, by themselves through democratic elections what kind of government they should have. and nobody has the right to separate gaza strip from the west bank if we are talking about the possibility of are talking about the possibility of a palestinian state and a two—state solution. but what we see here is an israeli act of ethnic cleansing, a clear declaration that they want to cough up —— cut off half of gaza into israel, that is the reality of what they are doing today and that's why they want to completely ethnically cleanse all parts of gaza, including everybody to egypt, but that is what they are dreaming about. ,, . ., , , ., ., about. the secretary general of the palestinian national _ about. the secretary general of the palestinian national initiative, - palestinian national initiative, mustafa barghouti, thank you for your time this evening.— many parents will have experienced their children running up bills on smartphones and tablets. i aware this sounds very parochial compared to the last conversation we have just been having. compared to the last conversation we havejust been having. but compared to the last conversation we have just been having.— have 'ust been having. but this is also have just been having. but this is also in the _ have just been having. but this is also in the news _ have just been having. but this is also in the news today. _ most of us, though, won't have had our bill paid for by taxpayers. scotland's health secretary, michael matheson — on the verge of tears today — admitted in an emotional satement today to the scottish parliament that an £11,000 data roaming charge on his ipad was caused by his sons watching football while they were on holiday in morroco last christmas. the expense was initially picked up by the scottish parliament, ie taxpayers, after mr matheson said the ipad was only used for work. he's since paid the money back and said he had referred himself to the parliament for further investigation. we'll speak to the leader of the scottish conservatives in a moment. first, here's joe. what do you have to do on one ipad, in one week, to spend £11,000? it's a question that's provoked a lot of headlines and really caught the public imagination in scotland. this is michael matheson. he's been in the scottish cabinet for almost a decade. but over the last week, he's really been feeling the heat. and all because of a holiday in morocco, which has proved to be rather more expensive than planned. last december, mr matheson, his wife and teenage sons went there over the new year, and he took his parliamentary ipad. soon after he returned to scotland, the bill came in. extra data charges of £10,935.74. this was partly because he'd not updated his sim card when the parliament moved data provider. but still, why so much data usage? he now says his family claimed at the time they'd not used it. so because the ipad had only been used for work, parliament agreed the taxpayer should cover the cost. £3,000 from mr matheson's expenses as an msp, and the rest from the holyrood budget. that was that, until these expenses were published last week. media interest erupted and this was michael matheson's initial public response. it was caused by an outdated sim card that was on an ipad i had four constituency purposes. which was a parliamentary ipad and it hadn't been replaced. i wasn't aware it hadn't been replaced and the cost went up because of that. but yesterday, the actual phone bill was published. the key numbers are here on the right. and there were two days where the data usage was high. 1.26 gb on one day. and 3.18 gigabytes on another. the latter accounting for more than £7,000 spent in a single day. it didn't take a detective to work out big scottish football matches took place on both those days. celtic versus hibs and the old firm game, celtic versus rangers. today, michael matheson's story had changed. he said his sons were to blame. asa as a parent i wanted to protect my family for being part of... for being part of the political media scrutiny associated like this, something i believe any parent would want to do. i am a father first and foremost... i can see now that it is just not possible to explain the data usage without explaining their role. the simple truth is, they were watching football matches. he also explained his sons had been using the ipad as a hotspot — using its internet connection to watch the matches on their devices. and michael matheson was unaware, he says, until they 'fessed up last thursday. however, four days after he discovered the truth, mr matheson still repeated his old denials. this was monday. were other people usin: the this was monday. were other people using the ipad. _ this was monday. were other people using the ipad, using _ this was monday. were other people using the ipad, using equipment - this was monday. were other people using the ipad, using equipment and| using the ipad, using equipment and that is_ using the ipad, using equipment and that is why— using the ipad, using equipment and that is why the bill was so large? the reason — that is why the bill was so large? the reason was it was an old sim card in it that should have been replaced. i have accepted that was my fault. an snp already under investigation over its own party finances is now facing a very different scandal, and some argue this one points to a carelessness with public money. michael matheson has asked the parliamentary authorities to investigate, yet he retains the backing of first minister humza yousaf. scottish opposition politicians i've spoken to tonightjust don't think he's been honest. and as one told me, "it's not the crime, but the cover—up". we did ask michael matheson and the snp to join us tonight, but they weren't available. with me now is douglas ross, the leader of the scottish conservatives. good evening, why are you calling for mr matheson to go?— good evening, why are you calling for mr matheson to go? because he has lied and — for mr matheson to go? because he has lied and as _ for mr matheson to go? because he has lied and as joe _ for mr matheson to go? because he has lied and as joe pike _ for mr matheson to go? because he has lied and as joe pike has - has lied and asjoe pike has explain, the story has changed over the course of a week. at the heart of it was one of one of the most senior government ministers to expect the taxpayer to pay £11,000 for his data roaming bills on an ipad. when he was caught out months later after making the claim, he changed his story and that is why he has misled parliament, i believe, in making that claim and misled the press and public by repeatedly sticking to a story which now proves to be false. ., sticking to a story which now proves to be false-— to be false. have you never told a white lie to _ to be false. have you never told a white lie to protect _ to be false. have you never told a white lie to protect someone - to be false. have you never told a white lie to protect someone you | white lie to protect someone you care about?— white lie to protect someone you care about? , , ., ., care about? this is not a white lie. first of all. — care about? this is not a white lie. first of all, this _ care about? this is not a white lie. first of all, this was _ care about? this is not a white lie. first of all, this was a _ care about? this is not a white lie. first of all, this was a claim - care about? this is not a white lie. first of all, this was a claim for - first of all, this was a claim for taxpayers money of £11,000. when michael matheson admitted in parliament today, he didn't know how that data had been accrued. if you don't know how such a bill had been reached, how can you then guarantee to the parliament, which he was requested to do both formally and in writing that had been used for parliamentary resources. there are serious questions here for the first minister. if you believe everything michael matheson has had, he found out about his family being involved last thursday. he waited four days, and i think this is very strange, but four days to tell the first minister on tuesday this week. yesterday, wednesday, the first minister was saying the matter was closed and he had drawn a line under it. he went on to say michael matheson had paid the money back, given the honest mistakes he made in relation to the updating of the sim card. the first minister must have known yesterday when he said that to the press, that wasn't the honest mistake that michael matheson had made. a , mistake that michael matheson had made. , , , made. many people make mistakes in their time made. many people make mistakes in theirtime at— made. many people make mistakes in their time at work, _ made. many people make mistakes in their time at work, we _ made. many people make mistakes in their time at work, we have _ made. many people make mistakes in their time at work, we have all - made. many people make mistakes in their time at work, we have all done l their time at work, we have all done it, you as a parliamentarian have done it, forgetting to declare nearly £7,000 of earnings in 2021. we said it was a bad error, all of your making and you try to rectify it as soon as you came to light. today mr matheson used similar language. he said mistakes are made and i take responsibility. he has paid the money back and referred himself to the authorities and apologise. but himself to the authorities and apologise-— himself to the authorities and aoloaise. �* ,,._ , ., apologise. but his story is falling a art. we apologise. but his story is falling apart- we also — apologise. but his story is falling apart. we also know— apologise. but his story is falling apart. we also know the - apologise. but his story is falling apart. we also know the bill, - apologise. but his story is falling apart. we also know the bill, as| apart. we also know the bill, as soon as everyone saw it yesterday people immediately realised someone had been watching football. michael matheson was first shown that bill on the 7th of february this year. why did he not ask these questions months and months ago and why was he still claiming to the media and the public in scotland on monday, that no other person had used the data in his family when he had been told days earlier that his family had been using it?— days earlier that his family had been usin: it? ., ~' ., ., ,, been using it? thank you for talking to us this evening. _ been using it? thank you for talking to us this evening. douglas - been using it? thank you for talking to us this evening. douglas ross, i to us this evening. douglas ross, leader of the scottish conservatives. being pregant and preparing to give birth can be a really anxious time for any woman. which is why today's news that maternity units in england currently have the poorest safety ratings of any hospital service inspected by the regulator isn't going to inspire confidence. bbc analysis of care quality commission records showed it deemed 67% of them not to be safe enough — up from 55% last autumn. the bbc�*s analysis also revealed that 15% of maternity units received the poorest safety ranking of "inadequate" — meaning that there is a high risk of avoidable harm to mother or baby. that's more than doubled from 7% last year. a study in the bmj in 2022 also revealed that out of millions of live births across eight european countries the uk had the second—highest maternal death rate. mothers in the uk were three times more likely to die around the time of pregnancy compared to those in norway and denmark. the department for heath and social care said £165 million a year was being invested in boosting the maternity workforce, and said, "we know there is more to do". why are so many of them deemed unsafe? we're going to focus on the story of one couple tonight. sarah and jack hawkins. their baby harriet was born dead at nottingham city hospital on 17 april 2016. she died as a result of a mismanaged labour. an independent investigation concluded her death was, "almost certianly preventable". harriet�*s mum at the time was a senior physiotherapist. harriet�*s dad jack was a hospital consultant. both worked for the hospital trust responsible for the death of their baby, their first child. since that day the couple had to fight to force the trust to acknoledge its mistakes — mistakes they believed had been covered up. the background to harriet�*s death is the day after my due date, i started having contractions. those contractions lasted for six days. 0ver those six days, i made 13 contacts with the hospital, i had one admission. every time i was told i wasn't in labour, i had to stay at home or have a bath. until it got to... 0n the sixth day i was lying on the sofa and i phoned up and said, "i really need help." i was told again to stay at home. then something started to hang out of me, to which i gotjack. we called and we were told to come in. i started to walk down the corridor, the midwife who took the phone call laughed and said, "is it still hanging out of you?" we got to the desk, they said we were taking bets jack was a doctor because of his manner on the phone. we got put into a back birth sanctuary suite. i was examined. they said, "we can see the baby's head, but you're too late, so you're going to have to have a water bath." they set that up, they scanned for a heartbeat before i got into the water bath, they couldn't find it. they called for help, still couldn't find it. so the call for the doctor. the doctor came and said, "well, your bladder�*s full, you know you're an obstructed labour. " so they drained nearly two litres off my bladder, then he scanned and said, "i'm sorry, your baby's dead." erm... so for those six days of asking for help, my full term healthy baby was left essentially suffocating inside me, and not one person tried to help me. what is going through your head? because you're both, you were both senior medical professionals, you both worked at that hospital? i trusted them, i believed them, you know, my birth plan was to have my healthy baby delivered alive. and i didn't read up anything because i thought, these are my colleagues, they'll do a good job, i'll get safe care. so i didn't think there was anything wrong until we were told she was dead! and then then the penny dropped. as soon as they told us, we thought, "you've messed up." you know, 13 contacts for help. i was made to feel like a fraud. i was crying on the sofa thinking, i am the only woman that can't handle labour. you know, it's. .. harriet�*s death is a trauma, but above that is this trauma of everything that happened during that and the subsequent lack of investigations after. i think it's worth pointing out as well, that last admission when they finally agreed that sarah should be in hospital because they had deflected and tried to keep her out of hospital as much as possible and failed abysmally to diagnose labour, when we went in with "something hanging out of sarah," that's an obstetric emergency. that's straight into the operating theatre. we got put in the lava lamp room with aromatherapy oils. it's so bad. this is not complex medicine. this is doing the simple things normally. and then, jack, you both had to fight to get the hospital, the place where you worked, the hospital where your baby was stillborn, to acknowledge the mistakes that had been made, because you believed they were trying to cover them up? yes, absolutely. and, you know, to give you some context, but we didn't have harriet's funeral for nearly two years. we were so horrified by the attempt to describe her death as being due to something that it wasn't, that we didn't dare have her funeral in case her body was needed for further examination and the hospital were able to say, "oh, sorry, you've buried or cremated her. " so we had to live through that as well. eventually they admitted that it was their negligence. but they had tried to say actually harriet had died from an infection? correct, yes. sarah had no signs of infection. there were no signs of infection at delivery and there was no microbiological evidence of an infection. there was no infection. and yet they tried to bully us into believing that, and that was from the board level, it went all the way through. and i know the hospital trust chief executive, after the 0ckendon review said, wwe're absolutely committed to open dialogue with the families. we've listened carefully to all they've had to say. we are now going to take time to reflect." that was a statement earlier this year. i want to ask you both finally how you react to the news today that the regulator, the qcc, says two thirds of maternity units in england are deemed unsafe and that has gone up since a year ago. we're not surprised. you know, as two senior clinicians in 2016 we blew the whistle loudly to nottingham and the wider nhs. you know, we weren't listened to. every time we will speak in the media, we will have people from all across the country contact us and say, "this happened to me. " you know, "i'm not being listened to, i'm not being heard." so, you know, and we have been failed by the general medical council, the nursing and midwifery council... the cqc. so i'm not surprised at all and it's part of why our maternity safety alliance is calling for a national public inquiry. at the moment, it is down to parents to fight for the truth when in fact it should be the regulators. sarah, jack, thank you very much for talking to our audience on newsnight, we really appreciate it. thank you so much. thank you. if you have been affected by any of the things we just talked about in that interview, you can find support on bbc action line or by calling oh 80110110. the government can't guarantee deportation flights to rwanda will be airborne by next year, the chancellorjeremy hunt said today. this, after the prime minister told us yesterday they would be taking off by the spring, despite the supreme court's ruling the policy is unlawful. rishi sunak has made clear his determination to achieve progress before the next general election, where the government believes the issue of migration could be key at the ballot box. but it's notjust in britain where the movement of migrants poses questions to which politicians can often struggle to find answers. in the us, authorities have detained more than two million migrants on its southern border in the last year — piling pressure on president biden to find a solution and leaving him facing attacks from the opposition and from within his own party for his handling of the situation. many believe it's an issue likely to feature heavily in next year's presidential election. david reports from the border in texas. it's midday, and the us border patrol are leading a procession of exhausted people up from the riverbank. they've just crossed the border between eagle pass, texas, and mexico. they're soaking wet and caked in mud, and some have lost their shoes. the heat is fierce and there's no shade. where they've come from, how they got here and what happens to them now is the subject of huge political controversy. we spend so much money in guarding other countries' borders, but we can't even even come down and actually acknowledge the fact that we have a significant crisis here. here in the texas border. should the us just turn them away and say, no, you can't come into the us because, you know, we can't handle any more people? i don't accept that. i think the us can handle more people. the rio grande riverforms about half of america's 2,000—mile—long border with mexico. another group leaves the comparative safety of the shore to make the difficult crossing. 0n the day we filmed, a border patrol officer told us that 1,700 people crossed the river like this at eagle pass. you can see how the current pulls at them. by the time they reach the other side, many have been swept a long way downstream and must fight their way back against the flow of water and in the relentless heat to find an exit point. many don't make it. this is where we come. they bring in the patients. we start doing cpr right here. manuel mello is the fire chief of eagle pass, texas, a border community of 30,000 people that's the location of one of the busiest migrant crossing points. so right here, we're pretty close to the city of eagle pass downtown district. chief mello, whose team are also the town's paramedics, says many migrants are sadly unprepared for how dangerous the river is. the white water is because there's a lot of gravel and sand where they actually can cross and walk through there. but if they slip and they hit a dip, like this one right here... yeah. ..they will be... they will be swept away by the water. we're doing about, sometimes, two to three times a week, we come down to the river. not necessarily for drownings, but for injuries in the summer, for heat exhaustion, but it's about two to three times a week that we come down here sometimes. sometimes, you know, it's unpredictable. sometimes, we'll do even up to five, five calls... five? ..once a day. between the chief and the river patrol boat is the source of many migrant injuries — the layer upon layer of razor wire. having survived the river's currents, the exhausted migrants, including children, must find a way through this wire. this girl, no more than six or seven, does make it through. others, like this woman, get stuck, unable to go forward or back. the wire was put there by the state of texas, run by republican governor greg abbott, and it's against the wishes of us border patrol, run by the democratic party president, joe biden. this border has become highly politicised. this stretch of riverbank at eagle pass is owned by hugo and magali urbina. they farm pecans, or would do, their crop is a tenth of what it should be. their trees have been choked with the dust from the constant border patrol vehicles. what do you think about the wire that's been put on your land and the fences? well, actually, this is the... the us border... the us border patrol did not put this up, the state of texas put this up. and the state of texas actually did a taking of our property,

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