Transcripts For BBCNEWS Future 20240702 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For BBCNEWS Future 20240702



thank you. before i close i want to reaffirm once again the need to work together and bridge whatever gaps we have in our position because ultimately we want the same thing. but again ijust ultimately we want the same thing. but again i just want to say one thing. imagine you are a palestinian father, mother, you have to leave your home and you already miserable existence in a refugee camp in gaza, you head south, take shelter in hospital and you are looking at the eyes of your children and did you know you can't protect them. you know you can't protect them. you know that you cannot find a place where they can escape the bombing. how do you explain to these, to a father who we saw yesterday in the rubble looking for four children of his who are still buried under the rubble and he cannot find them? i think we need to remind each other of our humanity. i think we need to accept that killing more people will not bring those who are lost on both sides, as tragic as the loss is. i think we need to all emphasise that everything we can do to save one more life is imperative upon all of us. i don't want to go into characterisation of what the international law says about that or what the international law says about this, but i would say, as we all say, as human beings, wejust cannot accept to see all that killing unfolding, to see all that reduction of life to a complete loss. how can we justify to anybody that killing 9000 people, killing 3700 children, destroying 150,000 houses, destroying hospitals, how can we justify that this is self defence? i think let's get back to the basics, step back and again, we all understand the pain that this war willjust produce more pain for palestinians and israelis and will push us all into the abyss of hatred and dehumanisation that will make killing even more acceptable. that needs to stop, that is our priority, it needs to stop now, it has to end and we should all work for a future when a palestinian child sees an israeli child, they see in each other a potentialfriend not a future enemy. i think that's what we need to do and i look forward to working with all our colleagues to create our reality and once and for all end the need for war and the need for violence and end conditions in which only misery and an environment that enables the kind of extremism that produces, also on the side of israel, that will end. studio: that press conference there ending in amman injordan with the us secretary of state and foreign ministers ofjordan and egypt. really interesting a lot of what they had to say, clearly united on they had to say, clearly united on the need to try and minimise civilian casualties with what is going on in gaza at the moment, but also i think very clearly illustrating the divisions between them as well. you heard from the egyptian foreign minister there calling for a full and unconditional ceasefire in the war between israel and hamas in gaza. but then you head the us secretary of state reiterating their position that they back israel's right to defend itself. but there calling for something rather different, they are talking about humanitarian pauses in the fighting, as antony blinken was saying there, enough to actually try and bring in aid for a short period of time to the people who need it in gaza. but of course remember that antony blinken was here in israel yesterday and had those same conversations with the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and he talked to him about humanitarian pauses and received a clear answer back that israel would not stop that military campaign at all, even for a short time, because they believe that would give hamas competitive advantage and israel has been very clear since those attacks on the 7th of october that one of their key objectives, along with releasing those hostages, is to entirely eliminate hamas and its leadership and infrastructure from inside the gaza strip. so it wasjust interesting to listen to those three men talking there, the product of many conversations the us secretary of state has been having injordan today, illustrating many of the points, in particular when you head at the end of the press conference there, when they talked about some of the images we see coming out of gaza, those images of civilian killings, particularly of children, i think you could see that the unity between the three. they were all agreeing that these were not the kind of images that the world wants to see, and in fact they are often, and we have shown you here sometimes on bbc news, these images that are very graphic and difficult to see, as well, as antony blinken pointed out, as were those similar images that we saw on october the 7th after those barbaric attacks by hamas on israeli civilians and women and children in the south of israel. i think antony blinken will now be considering really the conversations that he will also have in turkey tomorrow. he has added an extra stop tomorrow. he has added an extra stop to his trip. but it really shows you, i think, to his trip. but it really shows you, ithink, the to his trip. but it really shows you, i think, the depth of feeling here across the middle east, but also really the diversity of feeling as well and the fact that there is no clear answer, notjust about how to deal with the current conflict, but also you heard them reflecting their on what will happen next. the idea of how gaza will or could or should look once hamas has been removed from power there entirely, removed from power there entirely, removed from power there entirely, removed from gaza. the highlight is something that has been raised diplomatically by many countries as an issue going forward. nobody knows quite yet how gaza would run, what it would mean for those more than 2 million civilians who are living there in gaza, more than a million of them displaced from the north into the south of the strip. so, many different conversations that i think crystallised in that press conference that we heard there. let's turn to our diplomatic correspondent paul adams who is with me here injerusalem this evening. paul, you have a lot of notes. i know you were listening to all of that, what stood out for you? there is no getting — that, what stood out for you? there is no getting around _ that, what stood out for you? there is no getting around the _ that, what stood out for you? fire is no getting around the fundamental difference of opinion when it comes to a ceasefire. both of the arab foreign ministers, egyptian and jordanian, said the first priority is an immediate, unconditional, as the egyptian foreign minister put it, unconditional ceasefire, antony blinken for his part saying a ceasefire would just allow hamas to regroup and fight again. he quoted the interview that was given to lebanese television by a senior hamas officialjust lebanese television by a senior hamas official just a lebanese television by a senior hamas officialjust a few days ago in which he said we are willing to do this again and again. clearly the american share israel's view that halas must be removed entirely from the picture. i suspect that for all the picture. i suspect that for all the public words we had from the jordanian and egyptian foreign minister, they probably also share that view, that is not a view that can be expressed brutally to the arab population, who are seething, furious about what they are witnessing from gaza but there were very moving words from ayman safadi, jordanian foreign minister, but what happens after this is over, what will gaza be, he said? will itjust be a wasteland? just full of refugees? what kind of place will gaza be when israel has finished with it? that's the thing that is haunting the arab world, is israel just in the process of destroying this place one central? what will actually exist in gaza once hamas has been removed? for his part, antony blinken going on and on about the need to alleviate the suffering in the south. i think the americans recognise israel is going to do what israel is going to do militarily and that itsjob, israel is going to do militarily and that its job, washington's israel is going to do militarily and that itsjob, washington'sjob is to kind of get everyone together to try and mitigate the humanitarian consequences of this. he made these references that he has made, so has joe biden, to us policy still being a two—state solution. that sounds awfully hollow to almost everyone in this region, a lot of people think the moment for that solution has gone. no one has come up with anything viable by way of a replacement. 50 anything viable by way of a replacement.— anything viable by way of a relacement. ., , ., ~' replacement. so do you think, given what we heard _ replacement. so do you think, given what we heard there, _ replacement. so do you think, given what we heard there, anything - what we heard there, anything productive has actually come out of these talks? any movement other than discussions, other than rhetoric, other than what we have heard already? other than what we have heard alread ? �* ., , �* ~' other than what we have heard alread 7�* ., ,�* ~ , , already? antony blinken believes that they have — already? antony blinken believes that they have gone _ already? antony blinken believes that they have gone a _ already? antony blinken believes that they have gone a long - already? antony blinken believes that they have gone a long way . that they have gone a long way already to addressing that dire situation in the south. i don't know the figures myself but he said 105 trucks have gone in today where a week or ten days ago there were none. that has been the result of a lot of heavy diplomacy, and that that should increase, we should see 400, 500 trucks going on. the americans i think are desperate to try and salvage something from this dire humanitarian situation in the south. something that makes the palestinians, the arab world feel that the united states is not totally indifferent to the fate of palestinians while sharing israel's desire to see the back of hamas. whether there is any constructive conversations going on about what emerges from the ashes of gaza after this is over, whether there is any fresh, originalthinking this is over, whether there is any fresh, original thinking about how to revive a two—state solution, well, we haven't heard anything so far to suggest that there is. this is a government here in israel which is a government here in israel which is clearly utterly opposed to any kind of viable palestinian state in the future. it has members in it who believe that this is all the land of israel, that israelis should be able to settle wherever they want, and that a palestinian state is absolutely not on their agenda. and in fact, one of the arguments we hear a lot, even among israeli critics of the netanyahu government, is that the policy had pursued in gaza in recent years which was to allow hamas to flourish, to encourage qatar to fund it and send money in, was all about keeping the palestinian leadership, the palestinian leadership, the palestinian people divided between gaza run by hamas and the west bank run by the palestinian authority and anything that changes that dynamic leads you back into a discussion about palestinian statehood which is something the government here really is not interested in. pauli something the government here really is not interested in.— is not interested in. paul adams, thank you. _ is not interested in. paul adams, thank you. our— is not interested in. paul adams, thank you, our diplomatic - thank you, our diplomatic correspondent, on what we heard there from the press conference. let's continue those thoughts with tom fletcher, former uk ambassador to lebanon, whojoins us now. thank you for being with us on bbc news. let's talk more about that, because paul reflected on the difficult balance of relations that exist in the middle east and things are only getting harder now, aren't they? they are getting much, much harder. what antony blinken is trying to do is to try and rebuild trust within those arab allies and that trust has been very badly damaged. obviously over the last few weeks. and there is a long process ahead to rebuild the trust, notjust with the governments but with the arab population more widely. that's why he is travelling around the region. but alongside that you can hear the frustration in his voice and in their voices obviously the anger in their voices obviously the anger in their voices, that the dialling up of pressure during antony blinken's visit the last couple of days to israel hasn't actually had the result he wanted. he hasn't got the humanitarian pauses, he hasn't got as much humanitarian aid in as he was hoping and he's been told pretty clearly by neta nyahu was hoping and he's been told pretty clearly by netanyahu and the israeli military that they need to continue what they call, it's a chilling phrase, mowing the lawn, re—establishing long—term deterrence against hamas and hezbollah. one positive of the last few days that he will take from this is that the hezbollah's leader's speech yesterday and didn't dial up, didn't escalate and i think you will feel that the risk of the regional escalation has been dialled down a little bit, but that's one small positive in the midst of many negatives. positive in the midst of many negatives— positive in the midst of many neuatives. �*, . ~ ., . negatives. let's talk more about the seech of negatives. let's talk more about the speech of yesterday _ negatives. let's talk more about the speech of yesterday because - negatives. let's talk more about the speech of yesterday because in - negatives. let's talk more about the speech of yesterday because in fact| speech of yesterday because in fact the pentagon were confident enough yesterday to put out a statement saying that they believed they wider regional conflict, or certainly an escalation on the northern border of israel with lebanon, wasn't an issue for now. people have been waiting for now. people have been waiting for that speech with the potential that hassan nasrallah would enter dummigan aonce hezbollah's full—scale entry into this conflict. why didn't that happen? full-scale entry into this conflict. why didn't that happen? hezbollah are a cautious _ why didn't that happen? hezbollah are a cautious act _ why didn't that happen? hezbollah are a cautious act in _ why didn't that happen? hezbollah are a cautious act in this _ why didn't that happen? hezbollah are a cautious act in this respect, l are a cautious act in this respect, they know the lebanese people are very opposed to that escalation. that there is a real opposition to a conflict across the israel— lebanon border, they know there is a serious deterrent in the weapons that israel has, the willingness of israel to use them as we have been seeing in gaza can models of the us troop deployments in the region, too. and i think the iranians have also concluded now is not the time for a regional escalation and so they would quite clearly have signalled to hassan nasrallah that he should dial up the rhetoric but not dial up the real threats and not actually increase the risk of tension across the border. increase the risk of tension across the border-— increase the risk of tension across the border. notable i think as well done lebanon's _ the border. notable i think as well done lebanon's caretaker - the border. notable i think as well done lebanon's caretaker prime . done lebanon's caretaker prime minister had his own meeting this morning with antony blinken in amman. but of course as you know very well, lebanon and at the moment doesn't have a functioning government, it doesn't have a president. people will question whether that was any more than window dressing because there isn't a lot of influence that he has in lebanon at the moment will stop for much of the time i was there, 2011-201511 much of the time i was there, 2011-2015” and didn't much of the time i was there, 2011—201511 and didn't have a functioning government, often a caretaker government and for much of that time he was prime minister and was a very shrewd, smart player in that mix, trying to hold things together. it that mix, trying to hold things touether. , . together. it is good that the americans _ together. it is good that the americans met _ together. it is good that the americans met him. - together. it is good that the americans met him. i - together. it is good that the americans met him. i think| together. it is good that the l americans met him. i think it together. it is good that the - americans met him. i think it is important they do spend time rebuilding trust with a moderate arab leadership in the region. ultimately when this is all over, as we have been hearing in that press conference, we will have to rebuild some sort of alternative to hamas and hezbollah and that does mean rebuilding that trust, continuing the dialogue with leaders like najib mikati. the dialogue with leaders like na'ib mikati. ~ . . ., , the dialogue with leaders like na'ib mikati. ~ . . ., mikati. what are your thoughts about that because — mikati. what are your thoughts about that because we _ mikati. what are your thoughts about that because we heard _ mikati. what are your thoughts about that because we heard it _ mikati. what are your thoughts about that because we heard it touched - mikati. what are your thoughts about that because we heard it touched onl that because we heard it touched on in the press conference in gaza if and when this is all over. there is clearly no unity on that. what do you think and work as a potential answer? ., you think and work as a potential answer? . , . ., , answer? the real imperative now is to sto answer? the real imperative now is to step the — answer? the real imperative now is to stop the violence, _ answer? the real imperative now is to stop the violence, stop - answer? the real imperative now is to stop the violence, stop the - to stop the violence, stop the killing of innocent civilians and to get that aid in. i'm sure that is consuming most of the diplomatic space, most of the time antony blinken is spending on these meetings will be on that point. but there has to be space, as you say, for the day of the conversation, what happens when the bombs stop falling? at that point we will need a restoration of moderate palestinian leadership. there are real challenges to that. we have been hearing divisions between the west bank palestinian leadership and the hamas leadership in gaza. in some ways no group has done more to oppose how mass than that palestinian leadership. so how do we find a way to restore their authority on the ground while also rebuilding, repairing this immense damage that would have been done over these weeks of huge bombardment?— over these weeks of huge bombardment? �* ,, ., . over these weeks of huge bombardment? ,, ., . ~ ., , bombardment? and we know that antony bfinken bombardment? and we know that antony blinken is going — bombardment? and we know that antony blinken is going to _ bombardment? and we know that antony blinken is going to turkey _ bombardment? and we know that antony blinken is going to turkey tomorrow, - blinken is going to turkey tomorrow, an additional stop and that has been added to the trip. president recep tayyip erdogan in the last week has put out quite an inflammatory statement backing hamas, israel recalled its ambassadors. just looking ahead to tomorrow, what sort of discussions do you think will be happening there, and how will they contribute to the situation here? it contribute to the situation here? it will be very difficult discussions. i think antony blinken will feel the force of that frustration and anger from his turkish hosts. but also there will be practical conversations. the americans know that the tur

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