designed to waste huge amounts of my time i will personally hand curve her and escort her from the building. had you got form, mr cummings, for... studio: apologies for some of the languages used. this is a live stream of the uk covid inquiry and we are seeing messages containing course language. language. we cannot keep dealing with this horrific meltdown... page 10 of 283282. we have to get helen out of here. he is trying to get spads fired. can we get her in monday for her chat to her moving. we need her out asap. building millions of lovely houses. studio: again apologies for the language being used in this live stream. we will see a way in which you speak of a professional scientist who gave his time, and considerable amounts of energy to sage. professor neil ferguson, a third of the way down, we should get someone to hammer ferguson. mr cummings. was that aggressive and foul mouthed an misogynistic approach the correct wray to manage fellow professionals? i approach the correct wray to manage fellow professionals?— fellow professionals? i don't know what the ferguson _ fellow professionals? i don't know what the ferguson thing _ fellow professionals? i don't know what the ferguson thing is - fellow professionals? i don't know. what the ferguson thing is referring to, but in terms of helen, and the situation in the cabinet office you need to understand that the prime minister had first of all, tried to sack the cabinet secretary and botched it and he was still there, then he said to everyone he wanted helen to be removed as well and he has lost confidence in her. the new cabinet secretary had said that he wanted to have the authority to change both the pps and choose his deputy iee helen. the prime minister had trollied back on this as well. so, we were in this absolutely nigh mare situation, where the pm had destroyed, had made clear he didn't have confidence in either of the two senior officials, had said to people he was going to remove them, then he didn't remove them. for week after week, this let to an absolutely nightmare situation. now, my language about helen is, the language about helen is, the language is obviously appalling, and actually i got on well with helen, at a personal level, but a thousand times worse than my bad language is the underlying issue at stake, that we had a cabinet office system that had completely melted, and the prime minister had half begun the process of changing the senior management, and then stopped. so me and other people were desperately trying to build a new system with a new cabinet secretary. over this period, in order to get ready for september, and then suddenly, we were getting dragged out of meetings, on things like test and trace and vaccines, to be told we had to deal with cabinet office hr issues, and legal questions regarding judicial reviews. this, kafka—esque nightmare doesn't begin to explain it, so, i apologise for my language toward helen but a thousand times worse than my language was the underlying insanity of the situation in number ten. ~ , ., i am insanity of the situation in number| ten-— i am sorry ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some — ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some mpt. _ ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some rupt, we _ ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some rupt, we have _ ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some rupt, we have to - ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some rupt, we have to take i ten. when this morning. i am sorry toer some rupt, we have to take a l toer some rupt, we have to take a five minute — toer some rupt, we have to take a five minute break, so i will be back at 25_ five minute break, so i will be back at 25 w _ at 25 to. studio: this is bbc at 25 to. — studio: this is bbc news, and a live stream of the uk covid inquiry has just wrapped up. you have been listening to come to nick cummings, previously borisjohnson�*s top adviser, he said there was essentially no shielding plan at all for those at risk most at risk of severe disease as well as victims of domestic abuse before the march 2020 lockdown, he said that vulnerable groups were appallingly neglected. reiterated past descriptions of borisjohnson as a broken shopping trolley that would fear in all directions, most notably covid. he was asked why he didn't insist that borisjohnson was asked why he didn't insist that boris johnson return from was asked why he didn't insist that borisjohnson return from his holiday in february 2020, and he said that inside number ten, covid was treated like a distant problem, and not an emergency. he also went on to say that he felt it would have been highly counter productive for borisjohnson to chair meetings on covid at a time when he and others didn't feel it was a bigger threat as it was fast becoming. he was also very critical of some of the top people in government round march 2020, the then health secretary matt hancock, according to mr cummings, told cabinet they were unlikely to have covid without a temperature or a cough, but mr cummings says that mr hancock was told by scientists this wasn't true and that it helped so sow chaos, like was we heard from dominic cummings that mark said well the most senior service at the cabinet secretary, wanted the prime minister to encourage chicken pox style parties. mr cummings also described the cabinet office at the time that he joined in 2019, as a dumpster and bomb site when he took up that role as chief adviser, well, we can listen to a bit more about what he told the inquiry, let us have a listen. i was reflecting a widespread view among competent people at the centre of power about the calibre of a lot of power about the calibre of a lot of senior people who were dealing with this crisis extremely badly. overall, widespread failure, but pockets of excellent people and pockets of excellent people and pockets of excellent teams doing excellent work within an overall dysfunctional system. that excellent work within an overall dysfunctional system.— dysfunctional system. that was dominic cummings _ dysfunctional system. that was dominic cummings speaking i dysfunctional system. that was i dominic cummings speaking about dysfunctional system. that was - dominic cummings speaking about the cobra meeting and the decision not to bring borisjohnson back early from holiday to chair those. well, we can also hear what earlier in the day lee cain, the former number ten director of communications and he was also one of mrjohnson�*s closest advisers, we can listen to what he said, he described boris johnson can listen to what he said, he described borisjohnson as a challenging character to work with. let us have a listen. think anyone who has worked with the pm for a period of time will become exhausted with him sometimes. he can be quite a challenging character to work with, just because he will oscillate, he will be take a decision from the last person in the radio. i think that is pretty well documented, in terms of his style of operating, and it is rather exhausting from time to time. i think what will probably be clear in covid, it was the wrong crisis for this prime minister's skill set. which is different, i think from not potentially being up to the job of being prime minister. what potentially being up to the “ob of being prime minister.i potentially being up to the “ob of being prime minister. what do you mean by the _ being prime minister. what do you mean by the wrong _ being prime minister. what do you mean by the wrong crisis - being prime minister. what do you mean by the wrong crisis for i being prime minister. what do you mean by the wrong crisis for this i mean by the wrong crisis for this prime minister's skill set?- mean by the wrong crisis for this prime minister's skill set? could we use straightforward _ prime minister's skill set? could we use straightforward english - prime minister's skill set? could we use straightforward english mr i prime minister's skill set? could we| use straightforward english mr cain? i think_ use straightforward english mr cain? i think he _ use straightforward english mr cain? i think he is— use straightforward english mr cain? i think he is somebody who would often delay making decisions, would often delay making decisions, would often seek counsel from multiple sources and change his minds on issues. is sources and change his minds on issues. i ., sources and change his minds on issues. | . ., , ., issues. is that was earlier in the da , that issues. is that was earlier in the day. that is _ issues. is that was earlier in the day, that is lee _ issues. is that was earlier in the day, that is lee cain, _ issues. is that was earlier in the day, that is lee cain, we - issues. is that was earlier in the day, that is lee cain, we heard i issues. is that was earlier in the i day, that is lee cain, we heard from dominic cummings, we have been bringing that all afternoon, he explaining what borisjohnson's thoughts were on initially introducing lockdowns he was certainly open _ introducing lockdowns he was certainly open but _ introducing lockdowns he was certainly open but like, i introducing lockdowns he was certainly open but like, like . introducing lockdowns he was. certainly open but like, like me introducing lockdowns he was i certainly open but like, like me and like the warners and others, he was somewhat come struck we were in this situation, and of course, dumb struck, there was no plan for lockdown, he was saying how do we lockdown, he was saying how do we lockdown when there isn't a plan for lockdown when there isn't a plan for lockdown and i have been told for the last eight weeks that a lockdown is impossible, it is mad, because it means a worse second wave, now suddenly you and others are saying we have to lockdown, what is going on? ,, ., , ., ., ., on? shortly we will go live to that inuui , on? shortly we will go live to that inquiry. where — on? shortly we will go live to that inquiry, where our _ on? shortly we will go live to that inquiry, where our correspondent| inquiry, where our correspondent ellie price is standing by, to fill us in. this inquiry is of course a fact—finding mission, so no—one will be found guilty or not guilty, it is about learning lessons for the future, let us go live now to ellie price who is at the inquiry. sorry, ou no price who is at the inquiry. sorry, you go on- _ price who is at the inquiry. sorry, you go on- can — price who is at the inquiry. sorry, you go on- can you _ price who is at the inquiry. sorry, you go on. can you tell— price who is at the inquiry. sorry, you go on. can you tell us, i price who is at the inquiry. sorry, you go on. can you tell us, was i you go on. can you tell us, was there anything _ you go on. can you tell us, was there anything explosive i you go on. can you tell us, was there anything explosive that i you go on. can you tell us, was i there anything explosive that you heard in the evidence given by dominic cummings?— heard in the evidence given by dominic cummings? there was exolosion. _ dominic cummings? there was explosion, there _ dominic cummings? there was explosion, there was _ dominic cummings? there was explosion, there was some i dominic cummings? there was i explosion, there was some language i certainly can't tell you, back on the television i am afraid, which he was talking about another senior civil servant, who, some of the frustrations with how things were being dealt with. this all paints a raw picture of the sortle battles that were going on in number ten and who thought... and i think this is certainly going to set the tone and it's a bit left this afternoon. ellie, we canjust it's a bit left this afternoon. ellie, we can just see the inquiry looks like it is resuming, so let us have a listen and see what is happening. a... which was something i agreed with. you mr cummings, were the person who denigrated women, you denigrated helen mcnamara and you sent that misogynistic message about her. did you not? her. did ou not? ., ., , her. did ounot? ., ., , ., did you not? no, that is not correct- _ did you not? no, that is not correct- i — did you not? no, that is not correct. i was _ did you not? no, that is not correct. i was not _ did you not? no, that is not i correct. i was not misogynistic i was much rude rear about men than i was much rude rear about men than i was about helen, i agree that my language is deplorable, but as you see for yourself i diblowed the same or worse language about the prime minister, secretary of state and other people. —— deployed. if you want to look at how we ran thing, unlike whitehall, i had two young women at my deputy, i hired young women at my deputy, i hired young women in the sign team, for vote leave campaign, i put a woman in her 30s in charge of it, much tow the rage of a lot of mps so if you look at the reality of how i ran teams, and how they got on with the private secretaries in number entering you will see the truth of the matter. —— number ten. will see the truth of the matter. —— numberten. moving through will see the truth of the matter. —— number ten. moving through to the late summer. your statement shows that the prime minister kept changing his mind several times a day, questioning what had been done, i should have been the mayor ofjaw, are you refer to pressure from the press, i want to ask you, a single question, about the impact of the press on mrjohnson. it is obvious there is a symbiotic relationship between the press and politician, not least the prime minister. and he plainly paid a great deal of regard to what the news papers were saying, and what their owners were saying to him. it is obvious that he found himself unable to ignore their entreaties about what should be done and opening up the economy. in downing street, what was thought about that degree of influence of the press on the prime minister, and in particular, the impact on him, in deciding what was essentially a public health emergency? iitu’eiiii. public health emergency? well, obviously. _ public health emergency? well, obviously, there _ public health emergency? well, obviously, there was _ public health emergency? well, obviously, there was a - public health emergency? well, obviously, there was a general. obviously, there was a general feeling in number ten in the way in which the prime minister responded constantly to the media was extremely bad, and extremely damaging to the covid response, there was specific concerns about his relationship with the bar i —— barly and the telegraph and specific concerns and suspicion of possible corruption in terms of fears of his relationship with osbourne and the evening standard. i iffiiiii relationship with osbourne and the evening standard.— evening standard. i will ask you another question. _ evening standard. i will ask you another question. is _ evening standard. i will ask you another question. is it - evening standard. i will ask you another question. is it the i evening standard. i will ask you another question. is it the the l another question. is it the the evening stand car that is owned by lord lebedev.— evening stand car that is owned by lord lebedev. yes. it is he who he met in fact — lord lebedev. yes. it is he who he met in fact in _ lord lebedev. yes. it is he who he met in fact in the _ lord lebedev. yes it is he who he met in fact in the evening of thursday the 12th or 19th march? i think i remember seeing a reference to the 19th. the think i remember seeing a reference to the 19th. ' ' ., to the 19th. the 19th, all right. the next messages _ to the 19th. the 19th, all right. the next messages you - to the 19th. the 19th, all right. the next messages you sent i to the 19th. the 19th, all right. | the next messages you sent the to the 19th. the 19th, all right. - the next messages you sent the new director general in downing street or permanent secretary simon case, yes injuly and august, show you and he were gravely concerned about mr johnson changing position, as to the merits or the need for a lockdown. the lockdown which had occurred in march, and throughout september, october, mrjohnson backed and veered again, did he not, about whether or not the undoubted evidence of an increase in the instance of the virus could only be met by a circuit breaker or ultimately a national lockdown. yes. and it is in that — ultimately a national lockdown. yes. and it is in that period _ ultimately a national lockdown. ies and it is in that period there are multiple references to him being a trolley, to being incapable of making a decision, to also the influence, if any, that his then girlfriend exercised on his decision making. girlfriend exercised on his decision makinu. . girlfriend exercised on his decision making. yes. but the stage was reached are. — making. yes. but the stage was reached are, was _ making. yes. but the stage was reached are, was it _ making. ie3 but the stage was reached are, was it not, that everybody else in downing street took the view that a national lockdown was inevitable. and so it came to be— came to be were no in favour of a national lockdown, _ came to be were no in favour of a national lockdown, in _ came to be were no in favour of a national lockdown, in septemberl came to be were no in favour of a i national lockdown, in september and october, when the scientific evidence and the position of sage showed that the disease was spreading again and was sergio perezinger volcanoibly towards a further collapse in the nhs or a collapse in the nhs? yes, as the evidence shows i basically agreed with patted trick and chris and also, are, ialso with patted trick and chris and also, are, i also thought that as a kind of psychological or political judgment, if we did not do what patted trick and chris were suggesting, i had a lot of confidence, as i remember the data was extremely good unlike the first wave, i had a lot of confidence in what the data people were say, and i thought if they are roughly right, then i absolutely know that this guy is not going to be the mayor of jaws, he will bottle and u—turn and it will be the worst overall worlds. all right. on the 15th october can we have 267902, at page 68. in the whatsapp message between mr onson, mr cain and yourself, —— jonasson. —— mrjohnson. 267902, page 68. i see heads being... awe right. we don't appear to have that or put it on the screen. you say this. i on the screen. you say this. on the screen. you sa this. .. ~' ., on the screen. you sa this. ~' ~ ., ., you say this. i think i know the one ou are you say this. i think i know the one you are referring _ you say this. i think i know the one you are referring to. _ you say this. i think i know the one you are referring to. is _ you say this. i think i know the one you are referring to. is it _ you say this. i think i know the one you are referring to. is it the i you say this. i think i know the one you are referring to. is it the one i you are referring to. is it the one ou sa you are referring to. is it the one you say we _ you are referring to. is it the one you say we must _ you are referring to. is it the one you say we must preserve i you are referring to. is it the one you say we must preserve local l you say we must preserve local approach?— you say we must preserve local a- roach? ., , ., , ., approach? no, it is a different one. wh did approach? no, it is a different one. why did you — approach? no, it is a different one. why did you say _ approach? no, it is a different one. why did you say to _ approach? no, it is a different one. why did you say to mr— approach? no, it is a different one. why did you say to mrjohnson i approach? no, it is a different one. why did you say to mrjohnson and| approach? no, it is a different one. i why did you say to mrjohnson and mr cain we must not do a national lockdown, on the 15th october, of 2020 in light of what you have said about by a pro pose innocent of the national lockdown. it is about by a pro pose innocent of the national lockdown.— national lockdown. it is hard to see what the context _ national lockdown. it is hard to see what the context is, _ national lockdown. it is hard to see what the context is, there - national lockdown. it is hard to see what the context is, there is i national lockdown. it is hard to see what the context is, there is a i what the context is, there is a couple of different things there, there is the argument between the 17th and 21st september where you can see there is lots of documentation about what i thought and patrick and chris and other people, at this point, though, that ship had sailed to some extent and the pm had already decided to go down the local approach. so there was a debate inside number ten, when suddenly people were saying, we have to do a national lockdown now. mi to do a national lockdown now. all right. . there was an argument for having it started the local thing, you couldn't then just suddenly trolley again immediately and say, well now it will be national if you see what i mean, even though two weeks later it ended up, we had to go to national again. did you trolley, mr cummings? iuh’eiiii go to national again. did you trolley, mr cummings? well if you show me what _ trolley, mr cummings? well if you show me what is _ trolley, mr cummings? well if you show me what is it... _ trolley, mr cummings? well if you show me what is it... let - trolley, mr cummings? well if you show me what is it... let me i trolley, mr cummings? well if you show me what is it... let me just. show me what is it... let me just read this. sorry this doesn't have what you were referring to on.— sorry this doesn't have what you were referring to on. never mind, i see some heads — were referring to on. never mind, i see some heads being _ were referring to on. never mind, i see some heads being taken. i see some heads being taken. i think as i said, that there is the debate 17th september where the views of me and others were clear about what we ought to do. there was the chaos between then and the end of october of discussing possible local approaches, which didn't work, there was a stage where i was trying to get the prime minister to stick to get the prime minister to stick to what they already announced on local stuff and not career off again but unless you get the documents up it is hard to go to it in detail. you expressed the statement that the second lockdown could have been avoided, if as you said earlier, a proper sophisticated test and trace contract isolate system had been put into place from the spring. correct? correct, with mass testing as well. with mass testing. and you also attribute the fact that a lockdown could have been avoided, if there had not been what you describe as failures in the prime minister's character?— failures in the prime minister's character? , ., ., ., character? yes, also to be fair to the pm, remember— character? yes, also to be fair to the pm, remember for— character? yes, also to be fair to the pm, remember for reasons i character? yes, also to be fair to i the pm, remember for reasons still the pm, rememberfor reasons still unexplained dh basically trashed the idea of mass testing from march and the months of march tojuly were wasted to a large extent in building that whole infrastructure up, until we were alerted by that injuly. so, i think you can't hold the prime minister responsible for that, for that. ., , ' :: minister responsible for that, for that. ., , ':: that. you left number10 downing street on 13th _ that. you left number10 downing street on 13th november, - that. you left number10 downing street on 13th november, 2020. i that. you left number 10 downing i street on 13th november, 2020. did you not? street on 13th november, 2020. did ou not? . street on 13th november, 2020. did you not? yes. and your last message, our last you not? ie3 and your last message, your last messages for the prime minister, mrjohnson were on 15th november, two days later, could we have 282, 283, page 26. if you could scroll in please we can see mr johnson said you speak of briefings from team carrie. is that a reference to the allegation that she had briefed against you, colleagues of hers had been briefing against you and may have been involved in leaks? she hasn't briefed anyone and my instructions to all were to shut up. how is any of us supposed o to know where the briefings come from. look at the claims made on behalf of allies of lee and dom that i'm out in six month, they i can't take decision, that carrie is secretly forging lockdown policy and equally demented claims. are you responsible for that? demented claims. are you responsible forthat? no, then demented claims. are you responsible for that? no, then look at it from my point of view, this is a totally disgusting orgy of narcissism by a government that should be solving a national crisis, we must end this, thatis national crisis, we must end this, that is why i wanted to talk and see what we could do to sterilise the whole thing, if you really refuse, thatis whole thing, if you really refuse, that is up to you. you left the whatsapp group as we can see, because you blocked the contact shortly thereafter. he has a good turn of phrase mr johnson. would you agree that there was in the government of which you played a major part an orgy of narcissism? played a ma'or part an orgy of narcissism?— played a ma'or part an orgy of narcissism? . , ., , narcissism? certainly there was. you run awe _ narcissism? certainly there was. you run awe blog, _ narcissism? certainly there was. you run awe blog, do _ narcissism? certainly there was. you run awe blog, do you i narcissism? certainly there was. you run awe blog, do you not? l narcissism? certainly there was. i you run awe blog, do you not? yes. on the you run awe blog, do you not? yes. 0n the 5th — you run awe blog, do you not? yes. 0n the 5th july _ you run awe blog, do you not? yes. oh the 5th july 2021, _ you run awe blog, do you not? ie3 on the 5th july 2021, 273905,s so... on the 5thjuly 2021, 273905,s so... about five or six months later, you said, i and about five or six months later, you said, land my about five or six months later, you said, i and my team worked with boris on the referendum. some of us worked with him. unofficially or officially between the referendum and summer 2019. we knew his skills and summer 2019. we knew his skills and weaknesses. we knew he was in any objective sense unfit to be prime minister. we also knew that he knew too, since he told us. is that your blog? it knew too, since he told us. is that your blog?— knew too, since he told us. is that your blog? it is. elsewhere in your bloc , do your blog? it is. elsewhere in your blog. do you _ your blog? it is. elsewhere in your blog. do you say _ your blog? it 3 elsewhere in your blog, do you say things like, self aware boris knows that normal boris cannot manage, cannot focus. he won't read the paper, he can't share —— chair meetings to safe his life. is that a question? did -- chair meetings to safe his life. is that a question?— -- chair meetings to safe his life. is that a question? did you say that in our is that a question? did you say that in your blog? _ is that a question? did you say that in your blog? it _ is that a question? did you say that in your blog? it sounds _ is that a question? did you say that in your blog? it sounds familiar. in | in your blog? it sounds familiar. in our in your blog? it sounds familiar. in your statement, _ in your blog? it sounds familiar. in your statement, did _ in your blog? it sounds familiar. in your statement, did you _ in your blog? it sounds familiar. in your statement, did you say i in your blog? it sounds familiar. in your statement, did you say that i in your blog? it sounds familiar. in | your statement, did you say that he couldn't chair meetings, stick to a plan or build a high performance team? ., . plan or build a high performance team?- whether- plan or build a high performance team?- whether right l plan or build a high performance| team?- whether right or team? for sure. whether right or wron: mr team? for sure. whether right or wrong mr cummings, _ team? for sure. whether right or wrong mr cummings, and i team? for sure. whether right or wrong mr cummings, and the i team? for sure. whether right or. wrong mr cummings, and the inquiry will of course hearfrom mrjohnson, will of course hearfrom mrjohnson, will make its own mind up, you helped to put him there, did you not? ., . helped to put him there, did you not? .. . you helped to put him there, did you not?- you contributed l helped to put him there, did you| not?- you contributed to not? for sure. you contributed to his election _ not? for sure. you contributed to his election campaign, _ not? for sure. you contributed to his election campaign, in - not? for sure. you contributed to i his election campaign, in december of 19. you were his chief, perhaps advisorer. but everyone after that general election, in the early days of the administration, injanuary election, in the early days of the administration, in january 2020, election, in the early days of the administration, injanuary 2020, as you subsequently told journalists you subsequently told journalists you said we were having meetings in number ten, you said we were having meetings in numberten, by you said we were having meetings in number ten, by the summer we will all have gone from here or we will be in the process of trying to get rid of him and get someone else in as prime minister. did you say that? so you as prime minister. did you say that? yes. so you helped to ut into did you say that? ie3 so you helped to put into power and to sustain someone who was in your view, i emphasise you view, the inquiry has reached no view, somebody who was unfit to respond to the extraordinary difficult demands of a pandemic. extraordinary difficult demands of a andemic. .. . extraordinary difficult demands of a pandemic_ are _ extraordinary difficult demands of a pandemic.- are you - extraordinary difficult demands of a pandemic.- are you sorry? l pandemic. correct. are you sorry? rfruets pandemic. correct. are you sorry? rfrgets no- _ pandemic. correct. are you sorry? rfrgets no. because _ pandemic. correct. are you sorry? rfrgets no. because i— pandemic. correct. are you sorry? rfrgets no. because i think i pandemic. correct. are you sorry? rfrgets no. because i think that i pandemic. correct. are you sorry? i rfrgets no. because i think that you have to politics _ rfrgets no. because i think that you have to politics is _ rfrgets no. because i think that you have to politics is about _ rfrgets no. because i think that you have to politics is about choices, i have to politics is about choices, and the choice that we had in summer 2019 was, do we allow the whole situation, this crisis to continue, meltdown and possible seejeremy corbyn as pm and a second referendum on brexit, which we thought would be catastrophic for the country, for democracy, forfaith catastrophic for the country, for democracy, for faith and catastrophic for the country, for democracy, forfaith and democracy, or to role the dice on boris and try and control him and build a team that could control him. and that was the, we didn't take that choice lightly, we considered in summer 19 an alternative of staying out of it, but we thought the combination of second referendum and corbyn was so bad, that we should roll the dice. perhaps in difference to your support, he supported you, when the barnard castle affair exploded in easter 2020, did he not? yes. for health and — easter2020, did he not? ie3 for health and security reasons, you drove from london to durham over the weekend of the 27th, 29th march, at the height of the lockdown, with your wife and child. correct? the 27th is the _ your wife and child. correct? tue 27th is the friday, yes. your wife and child. correct? the 27th is the friday, yes. i- your wife and child. correct? the 27th is the friday, yes. i don't. 27th is the friday, yes. i don't know when — 27th is the friday, yes. i don't know when you _ 27th is the friday, yes. i don't know when you drive - 27th is the friday, yes. i don't know when you drive but i 27th is the friday, yes. i don't know when you drive but it. 27th is the friday, yes. i don'tl know when you drive but it was 27th is the friday, yes. i don't- know when you drive but it was over the weekend. know when you drive but it was over the weekend-— the weekend. that was the night of the weekend. that was the night of the frida , the weekend. that was the night of the friday. the _ the weekend. that was the night of the friday, the day _ the weekend. that was the night of the friday, the day the _ the weekend. that was the night of the friday, the day the pm - the weekend. that was the night of the friday, the day the pm got - the friday, the day the pm got covid. in the friday, the day the pm got covid. , ., , . the friday, the day the pm got covid. ,, , ., _, the friday, the day the pm got covid. ,, , ., ,, covid. in your statement, you say that the prime _ covid. in your statement, you say that the prime minister _ covid. in your statement, you say that the prime minister knew - covid. in your statement, you say that the prime minister knew that you had moved yourfamily that the prime minister knew that you had moved your family out of london. but his whatsapp messages, 226225 page 22 are adamant that you never told him that you had gone to durham during the lockdown and he only discovered when the story started to come in. 226225. page 22. whether or not you toiled him r on the 12th april o you told him. you drove 25 miles to barnard castle to test your eyesight. yes?— drove 25 miles to barnard castle to test your eyesight. yes? 50. .. did test your eyesight. yes? so... did ou drive test your eyesight. yes? so... did you drive to _ test your eyesight. yes? so... did you drive to barnard _ test your eyesight. yes? so... did you drive to barnard castle? - test your eyesight. yes? so... did you drive to barnard castle? are l test your eyesight. yes? so... did i you drive to barnard castle? are you askin: you drive to barnard castle? are you asking about — you drive to barnard castle? are you asking about the _ you drive to barnard castle? are you asking about the whole _ you drive to barnard castle? are you asking about the whole thing - you drive to barnard castle? are you asking about the whole thing or - you drive to barnard castle? are you asking about the whole thing or the l asking about the whole thing or the 2th. l asking about the whole thing or the 2th. ., ., ., ,~ asking about the whole thing or the 2th. a, a, ., ,~ n asking about the whole thing or the 2th. a, a, a, n a, 2th. i want to ask you about the barnard castle _ 2th. i want to ask you about the barnard castle on _ 2th. i want to ask you about the barnard castle on 12th - 2th. i want to ask you about the barnard castle on 12th april. - 2th. i want to ask you about the | barnard castle on 12th april. did you drive there? barnard castle on12th april. did you drive there?— barnard castle on 12th april. did you drive there? yes. did you take our wife you drive there? yes. did you take your wife and _ you drive there? .e3 did you take your wife and child in you drive there? .e;1v did you take your wife and child in that you drive there? .e1v did you take your wife and child in that car? yes. ~ , , ., ., yes. why did you need them no the car to be able _ yes. why did you need them no the car to be able to _ yes. why did you need them no the car to be able to test _ yes. why did you need them no the car to be able to test your- car to be able to test your eyesight?— car to be able to test your eesiuht?�* , eyesight? because, well as i exolained — eyesight? because, well as i exolained to _ eyesight? because, well as i explained to mps _ eyesight? because, well as i explained to mps a - eyesight? because, well as i explained to mps a couple i eyesight? because, well as i l explained to mps a couple of eyesight? because, well as i - explained to mps a couple of years ago. explained to mps a couple of years auo. . explained to mps a couple of years aio, ., , ., explained to mps a couple of years auo. . , ., , , explained to mps a couple of years auo. . , ,, ago. can you 'ust tell us please. 0h, ago. can you 'ust tell us please. oh, i ago. can you 'ust tell us please. on, i am. — ago. can you just tell us please. 0h. i am- so. — ago. can you just tell us please. oh, i am. so, in— ago. can you just tell us please. oh, i am. so, in the— ago. can you just tell us please. oh, i am. so, in the days - ago. can you just tell us please. oh, i am. so, in the days up - ago. can you just tell us please. | oh, i am. so, in the days up until the 12th of course, the pm was increasingly sick, i was getting messages from lee cain and others about the... mr messages from lee cain and others about the- - -— about the... mr cummings, why, excuse me. _ about the... mr cummings, why, excuse me, why, _ about the... mr cummings, why, excuse me, why, why _ about the... mr cummings, why, excuse me, why, why did - about the... mr cummings, why, excuse me, why, why did you - about the... mr cummings, why, l excuse me, why, why did you take your wife and child in that car, to enable you to test your eye sigh? this enable you to test your eye sigh? as i enable you to test your eye sigh? 1.1 i was saying, i was asked to go down to drive back down to london, because of the terrible situation with the government, i had intended to go the day before on the saturday but i was too ill to do so, on the 12th, i thought right, i will drive down the road, drive back, see howl feel, and if i feel 0k, down the road, drive back, see howl feel, and if i feel ok, then i will drive back the nec day. back to london i mean.— drive back the nec day. back to london i mean. ~ , iv ., ., london i mean. why did you have to have our london i mean. why did you have to have your wife _ london i mean. why did you have to have your wife and _ london i mean. why did you have to have your wife and child _ london i mean. why did you have to have your wife and child in _ london i mean. why did you have to have your wife and child in the - london i mean. why did you have to have your wife and child in the car. have your wife and child in the car to assist you to drive down the road? , ., , , �* ., ., road? obviously i didn't have to have them _ road? obviously i didn't have to have them in — road? obviously i didn't have to have them in the _ road? obviously i didn't have to have them in the car. _ road? obviously i didn't have to have them in the car. that - road? obviously i didn't have to have them in the car. that day, | road? obviously i didn't have to - have them in the car. that day, the 12th a - ril, have them in the car. that day, the 12th april. was _ have them in the car. that day, the 12th april, was it _ have them in the car. that day, the 12th april, was it your _ have them in the car. that day, the 12th april, was it your wife's - 12th april, was it your wife's birthday. it 12th april, was it your wife's birthda . ., , was it easter sunday? i think so. of course... fill was it easter sunday? i think so. of course... , ., , ., course... of course you realise that the people — course... of course you realise that the people because _ course... of course you realise that the people because my _ course... of course you realise that the people because my confidencel course... of course you realise that. the people because my confidence in the people because my confidence in the crisis collapsed. the the people because my confidence in the crisis collapsed.— the crisis collapsed. the whole handhna the crisis collapsed. the whole handling of _ the crisis collapsed. the whole handling of the _ the crisis collapsed. the whole handling of the situation - the crisis collapsed. the whole handling of the situation was l handling of the situation was certainly a disaster. many other things are also going haywire at the time. do you accept that your behaviour, whether a breach of the rules or not, because the measurable offence and additional painted the bereaved? i had to move my family out of the house and bring my family out of the house and bring my family out of the house which i discussed with the police,