the un says its aid operations in gaza will start winding down tomorrow for lack of fuel. so what happens after that? israel's prime minister says a ground assault will come, but meanwhile, the brinkmanship over letting in aid versus letting out hostages carries on. we are now reducing the fuel we are using every day so we can keep the most critical services running for as long as possible but it is going to mean that people don't have access to drinking water. we'll be talking to people who know about humanitarian operations in gaza about what happens next and whether the united nations is taking a side. and we'll explore the splits in labour caused by keir starmer�*s statements, which he's now caveated, on israel's right to blockade gaza. also tonight, is there trouble ahead forjoe biden from within his party? listen, there are two peoples here, palestinians and israelis. we need to show care and solidarity with the palestinian people and these civilians who are being killed every day in the hundreds. and i think that it's a reflection of the growing constituency, a growing movement within the democratic party. and as bletchley park prepares to host next week's global conference on the future of artificial intelligence, we'll hear new warnings that relations with our silicon friends might not be the harmonious collaboration they're sometimes sold as. good evening. restriction to the fuel supply in gaza has become a central issue this evening. the un agency that runs aid operations said that unless more was allowed in, it would have to start cutting back its operations tomorrow. no fuel tankers have been allowed in from egypt today so the situation's looking bleak for hospital generators and desalination plants too. israel has argued that hamas is hoarding fuel stocks. what's beyond dispute is that conditions in gaza are deteriorating and arguments continue over the use of the rafah crossing with egypt. israel has so far vetoed fuel deliveries. hamas, proscribed in this country as a terrorist group, has stopped hundreds of foreign passport holders, mainly palestinian dual nationals, from leaving. and then there's the 220 hostages taken from israel as well, by hamas, with suggestions that their freedom is being bargained forfuel and other supplies. emir is in tel aviv. hejoint is now. tonight prime minister benjamin netanyahu took to television to give his latest statement, saying the israeli government is doing all they can to secure the release of hostages and he also said the preparations for the ground offensive are continuing but would not be drawn on when. one issue he did not raise is the question of the fuel deliveries into gaza, where we know obviously that is one of the sharpest issues, the question of fuel entering the gaza strip, where electricity is running out. we have heard from the united nations today that they have issued one of their starkest warnings, saying that within 2a and was they will have to make serious decisions about which operations to cease and which to significantly scale back, and we know there are around 600,000 people sheltering in those un facilities in the gaza strip and one issue the lack of electricity is causing is it is making it much harder to reach people on the ground and to get that testimony. we spent much of the day trying to do so and got through one young woman, a 22—year—old called salma who managed to send us a member of video messages which form part of our report from the event today you can watch. hello, everyone. iam salma. i'm a gaza citizen. i'm 22 years old, dental student. i'm in my graduation year, actually, but unfortunately i don't think i'll be able to finish that because my university is completely shattered. i think i'm stuck here. salma lives in central gaza. the israeli army told its residents to evacuate, but she says the conditions elsewhere were so dire that her family returned home. but even there, it's become desperate. here's our water for the kitchen. and it doesn't work. itjust drops a few drops. we can't clean this now. and it's the night and i can't see anything. and i'm very, very scared of the darkness. hopefully this night... rumbling overhead. oh, my god. you can hear now. explosion. oh, my god. today in gaza, the bombs continue. the hamas controlled health authorities state that over 6500 have died since the war broke out, more than 750 alone since yesterday. and the few dozen trucks of aid that have entered are being called a drop in the ocean by aid charities. we're less than two kilometres from gaza. just beyond that tree line there, it's the 19th day with no fuel deliveries allowed in. the energy is running out. already bakeries are closing and a third of hospitals aren't operating because of damage and a lack of electricity, according to the un. more looks set to shutter. but as it continues to impose its tight blockade on the gaza strip, it seems israel will allow medical equipment, ovens and the lights themselves to go dark. this is my neighbourhood. it's completely dark because there's no electricity in the whole neighbourhood. this is ourfridge, as i said. the night is becoming very close and i'm very scared that the night will come because it's the most horrific time of the day. explosions. but it's notjust homes. the un stated today that it will run out of fuel in 2a hours, forcing tough decisions ahead. we're running out of fuel. we are now reducing the fuel we're using every day so that we can keep the most critical services running for as long as possible. but it is going to mean that people don't have access to drinking water. if we can't get fuel to the bakeries, they're going to close down. and really critically, you know, hospitals that are full of patients, they will not be able to run their icu, for example. do you feel that your facilities can now no longer be considered safe zones? this is one of the biggest questions that we get from the community. "am i safe? "i've come to a shelter. "i'm under a un flag. "am i safe? " now, in accordance with international law, they should be safe. but the reality is, during the conduct of this war, places where people were seeking shelter under a un flag have been hit. people have lost their lives. we've lost 35 colleagues from unwra so far. i'm very worried that we're going to lose more colleagues. this week, reports suggested that dozens more israeli hostages were on the table for release in return for fuel deliveries. but an agreement couldn't be made. while yesterday, the israeli army claimed that hamas is stockpiling half a million litres of fuel and told the united nations to "ask hamas if you can have some". so a decision was made by israel ito shut all supply of electricity. through the electrical wires that were coming from israel. - you also have a power station in gaza that was supplying - about a third of the supply that was available, - that runs on fuel, that was also coming through israelj and that was also blocked. so a few days later, you basically had a situation of a total- blackout in gaza. and we're now on day 16 of that total blackout. . i've never seen anything like this. lights are going out across gaza and there's little sign of reprieve ahead, plunging a desperate landscape into a deeper darkness. i'm here. i am in gaza, standing in front of my window. and i don't know if i'm going to make it till tomorrow morning. just pray for us and pray that this ends when... not well. it's never going to end well. just ends. to discuss the crisis, we're joined in the studio byjasmine el—gamal, who was a pentagon adviser and now works with think tanks, dan gillerman, formerly israeli ambassador to the un and now a businessman, and frances leach, who is head of media for the actionaid uk charity. starting with you, you have partners in a particular hospital in gaza so how are they working around the conditions that you heard described in the report?— in the report? very difficult, we have partners — in the report? very difficult, we have partners in _ in the report? very difficult, we have partners in the _ in the report? very difficult, we have partners in the al - in the report? very difficult, we have partners in the al wother i have partners in the al wother hospital in gaza and what they have told us is they are almost out of fuel and that means for the majority of people who are working in those hospitals they night that they will not be able to provide the life—saving care they need to for their patients. we have heard over 150 babies on incubators, 70 are being mechanically ventilated and without power those babies will die. what we are also seeing is that hospitals are massively oversubscribed in terms of the patients they are treating at the moment, 2000 in a hospital that would normally treat 700 so you can imagine the scale of emergency those doctors are facing in those hospitals. hospitals at the moment in gaza are some of the only places that still had power at left, even if they have any power at all. because of generators. exactly and what we are _ because of generators. exactly and what we are calling _ because of generators. exactly and what we are calling for _ because of generators. exactly and what we are calling for at _ because of generators. exactly and what we are calling for at actionaid is to have aid coming through rafah that crucially includes fuel because so far that has not been part of any aid delivered. it is difficult to see that if you get medicines delivered to your hospital that is in a blackout with no power to treat patients, what that medicine will do. �* . , . . patients, what that medicine will do. g . , ., ., , patients, what that medicine will do. jasmine, rafah is a crossing oint do. jasmine, rafah is a crossing point between _ do. jasmine, rafah is a crossing point between egypt _ do. jasmine, rafah is a crossing point between egypt and - do. jasmine, rafah is a crossing point between egypt and the - do. jasmine, rafah is a crossing i point between egypt and the gaza strip but there seem to be many other people now exerting an influence over what and who goes through. influence over what and who goes throu . h. , ., ., influence over what and who goes throu~h. ,., ., ., through. right, so there are two issues that _ through. right, so there are two issues that are _ through. right, so there are two issues that are examples - through. right, so there are two issues that are examples of - through. right, so there are two l issues that are examples of issues that have — issues that are examples of issues that have to be discussed by a multitude of players when it comes to the _ multitude of players when it comes to the rafah crossing. one is a security— to the rafah crossing. one is a security and another is ensuring that crossing will not be bombed, will not _ that crossing will not be bombed, will not he — that crossing will not be bombed, will not be attacked by the israelis if the _ will not be attacked by the israelis if the aid _ will not be attacked by the israelis if the aid is coming in, and the other— if the aid is coming in, and the other is— if the aid is coming in, and the other is ensuring that the aid that doesn't _ other is ensuring that the aid that doesn't go — other is ensuring that the aid that doesn't go in does not fall into the hands _ doesn't go in does not fall into the hands of— doesn't go in does not fall into the hands of hamas so both of those issues _ hands of hamas so both of those issues obviously are critical issues to ensuring — issues obviously are critical issues to ensuring aid goes in safely and -ets to ensuring aid goes in safely and gets to _ to ensuring aid goes in safely and gets to the people who need it most. and that _ gets to the people who need it most. and that involves multiple sides in negotiation including the americans. and from _ negotiation including the americans. and from the us point of view, i know it was said early on in this that, i think something like 500 us passport holders who are mainly palestinian dual nationals would be allowed out as part of this but that has not happened. it allowed out as part of this but that has not happened.— allowed out as part of this but that has not happened. it hasn't happened because often — has not happened. it hasn't happened because often times, _ has not happened. it hasn't happened because often times, when _ has not happened. it hasn't happened because often times, when i - has not happened. it hasn't happened because often times, when i have - because often times, when i have tried _ because often times, when i have tried to _ because often times, when i have tried to go. — because often times, when i have tried to go, it has not been safe to cross _ tried to go, it has not been safe to cross 50 — tried to go, it has not been safe to cross. so there have been instances when _ cross. so there have been instances when they— cross. so there have been instances when they have gotten to the border but have _ when they have gotten to the border but have not been allowed to cross because _ but have not been allowed to cross because it — but have not been allowed to cross because it has not been a safe situation — because it has not been a safe situation due to israeli bombardment. but it is also worth noting _ bombardment. but it is also worth noting one — bombardment. but it is also worth noting one really important point you just — noting one really important point you just made, frankly, that because of the _ you just made, frankly, that because of the lack— you just made, frankly, that because of the lack of fuel going in right now to — of the lack of fuel going in right now to gaza, unrwa has announced it would _ now to gaza, unrwa has announced it would have _ now to gaza, unrwa has announced it would have to cease its operations inside _ would have to cease its operations inside gaza — would have to cease its operations inside gaza possibly by the end of tonight, _ inside gaza possibly by the end of tonight, and they are saying that if they don't— tonight, and they are saying that if they don't get fuelled by the end of tonight— they don't get fuelled by the end of tonight or— they don't get fuelled by the end of tonight or tomorrow morning, they will no _ tonight or tomorrow morning, they will no longer have fuel in their trucks — will no longer have fuel in their trucks to— will no longer have fuel in their trucks to even go and receive any aid and _ trucks to even go and receive any aid and distribute it so that it is also _ aid and distribute it so that it is also a _ aid and distribute it so that it is also a really important point. they talk about a _ also a really important point. they talk about a face _ also a really important point. tia: talk about a face shutdown of operations. dan gillerman, let the fuel through, is it so hard? it’s fuelthrough, is it so hard? it's very hard _ fuel through, is it so hard? it's very hard because we are dealing with murderers _ very hard because we are dealing with murderers and _ very hard because we are dealing with murderers and people - very hard because we are dealing with murderers and people who i very hard because we are dealing - with murderers and people who have really _ with murderers and people who have really done _ with murderers and people who have really done the — with murderers and people who have really done the most _ with murderers and people who have really done the most outrageous - really done the most outrageous atrocities— really done the most outrageous atrocities that _ really done the most outrageous atrocities that we _ really done the most outrageous atrocities that we have _ really done the most outrageous atrocities that we have seen - really done the most outrageousl atrocities that we have seen since the holocaust _ atrocities that we have seen since the holocaust. talking _ atrocities that we have seen since the holocaust. talking here - atrocities that we have seen sincej the holocaust. talking here about babies— the holocaust. talking here about babies who — the holocaust. talking here about babies who could _ the holocaust. talking here about babies who could not _ the holocaust. talking here about babies who could not maybe - the holocaust. talking here about . babies who could not maybe survive in the _ babies who could not maybe survive in the incubators, _ babies who could not maybe survive in the incubators, israeli _ babies who could not maybe survive in the incubators, israeli babies - in the incubators, israeli babies didn't— in the incubators, israeli babies didn't even_ in the incubators, israeli babies didn't even make _ in the incubators, israeli babies didn't even make it— in the incubators, israeli babies didn't even make it to - in the incubators, israeli babies didn't even make it to the - didn't even make it to the incubators _ didn't even make it to the incubators because - didn't even make it to the incubators because their i didn't even make it to the - incubators because their animals kept incubators because their animals keut their— incubators because their animals kept their mother's _ incubators because their animals kept their mother's stomach, - incubators because their animals i kept their mother's stomach, took the baby— kept their mother's stomach, took the baby out— kept their mother's stomach, took the baby out and _ kept their mother's stomach, took the baby out and killed _ kept their mother's stomach, took the baby out and killed it - kept their mother's stomach, took the baby out and killed it and - the baby out and killed it and killed — the baby out and killed it and killed the _ the baby out and killed it and killed the mother— the baby out and killed it and killed the mother so - the baby out and killed it and killed the mother so when i the baby out and killed it andl killed the mother so when you the baby out and killed it and - killed the mother so when you are dealing _ killed the mother so when you are dealing with — killed the mother so when you are dealing with these _ killed the mother so when you are dealing with these people - killed the mother so when you are dealing with these people it - killed the mother so when you are dealing with these people it is - killed the mother so when you are | dealing with these people it is very difficult _ dealing with these people it is very difficult to — dealing with these people it is very difficult to send _ dealing with these people it is very difficult to send in fuel _ dealing with these people it is very difficult to send in fuel which - dealing with these people it is very difficult to send in fuel which you l difficult to send in fuel which you no end _ difficult to send in fuel which you no end of— difficult to send in fuel which you no end of the _ difficult to send in fuel which you no end of the day— difficult to send in fuel which you no end of the day will— difficult to send in fuel which you no end of the day will actually. difficult to send in fuel which you i no end of the day will actually make hamas _ no end of the day will actually make hamas use — no end of the day will actually make hamas use it— no end of the day will actually make hamas use it what _ no end of the day will actually make hamas use it what rockets. - no end of the day will actually make hamas use it what rockets.- no end of the day will actually make hamas use it what rockets. there are obvious humanitarian _ hamas use it what rockets. there are obvious humanitarian reasons - hamas use it what rockets. there are obvious humanitarian reasons to - hamas use it what rockets. there are obvious humanitarian reasons to do i obvious humanitarian reasons to do it, aren't there?— it, aren't there? there are humanitarian _ it, aren't there? there are humanitarian reasons - it, aren't there? there are humanitarian reasons and | it, aren't there? there are i humanitarian reasons and the it, aren't there? there are - humanitarian reasons and the one it, aren't there? there are _ humanitarian reasons and the one who should _ humanitarian reasons and the one who should take _ humanitarian reasons and the one who should take care — humanitarian reasons and the one who should take care of— humanitarian reasons and the one who should take care of the _ humanitarian reasons and the one who should take care of the humanitarian. should take care of the humanitarian issues _ should take care of the humanitarian issues in _ should take care of the humanitarian issues in gaza — should take care of the humanitarian issues in gaza is— should take care of the humanitarian issues in gaza is hamas, _ should take care of the humanitarian issues in gaza is hamas, who- should take care of the humanitarian issues in gaza is hamas, who took. issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza _ issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza over— issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza over pond _ issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza over pond we _ issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza over pond we left _ issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza over pond we left gaza... - issues in gaza is hamas, who took gaza over pond we left gaza... inl gaza over pond we left gaza... in 2005. gaza over pond we left gaza... in 2005- hamas _ gaza over pond we left gaza... in 2005. hamas could _ gaza over pond we left gaza... in 2005. hamas could have - gaza over pond we left gaza... in 2005. hamas could have turned. 2005. hamas could have turned it into a thriving _ 2005. hamas could have turned it into a thriving country _ 2005. hamas could have turned it into a thriving country and - 2005. hamas could have turned it into a thriving country and they i into a thriving country and they turn _ into a thriving country and they turn it— into a thriving country and they turn it into _ into a thriving country and they turn it into a _ into a thriving country and they turn it into a terror— into a thriving country and they turn it into a terror based... i into a thriving country and they . turn it into a terror based... let’s turn it into a terror based... let's turn it into a terror based... let's t and turn it into a terror based... let's try and focus _ turn it into a terror based... let's try and focus on _ turn it into a terror based... let's try and focus on the _ turn it into a terror based... let's try and focus on the issues - turn it into a terror based. .. let's try and focus on the issues of- turn it into a terror based...- try and focus on the issues of the moment. it seems that the possible consequences for israel's reputation andindeed consequences for israel's reputation and indeed the illegality, potentially, of stopping fuel going in, if this is what happens tomorrow, they are immense, aren't they? i tomorrow, they are immense, aren't the ? ~ , tomorrow, they are immense, aren't the ? ~' , , , they? i think they may be immense but they may _ they? i think they may be immense but they may be — they? i think they may be immense but they may be immense - they? i think they may be immense but they may be immense because | they? i think they may be immense i but they may be immense because of one of— but they may be immense because of one of reason— but they may be immense because of one of reason and _ but they may be immense because of one of reason and that _ but they may be immense because of one of reason and that is _ but they may be immense because of one of reason and that is because - one of reason and that is because hamas— one of reason and that is because hamas is— one of reason and that is because hamas is in— one of reason and that is because hamas is in charge _ one of reason and that is because hamas is in charge and _ one of reason and that is because hamas is in charge and is - one of reason and that is because hamas is in charge and is using . one of reason and that is because| hamas is in charge and is using its own people — hamas is in charge and is using its own people as— hamas is in charge and is using its own people as human _ hamas is in charge and is using its own people as human shields. - hamas is in charge and is using its own people as human shields. i. hamas is in charge and is using itsl own people as human shields. i am very touched — own people as human shields. i am very touched by— own people as human shields. i am very touched by these _ own people as human shields. i am very touched by these pictures - own people as human shields. i am very touched by these pictures butl very touched by these pictures but it always _ very touched by these pictures but it always amazes _ very touched by these pictures but it always amazes me _ very touched by these pictures but it always amazes me that - very touched by these pictures but it always amazes me that when i very touched by these pictures but - it always amazes me that when the us reacted _ it always amazes me that when the us reacted to 9/11. — it always amazes me that when the us reacted to 9/11, |_ it always amazes me that when the us reacted to 9/11, ididn't_ it always amazes me that when the us reacted to 9/11, i didn't see _ it always amazes me that when the us reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you - it always amazes me that when the us reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you or- reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you or any of— reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you or any of your— reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you or any of your colleagues _ reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you or any of your colleagues shed - reacted to 9/11, i didn't see you or any of your colleagues shed tears| any of your colleagues shed tears for the _ any of your colleagues shed tears for the taliban— any of your colleagues shed tears for the taliban or— any of your colleagues shed tears for the taliban or al-qaeda. - any of your colleagues shed tearsl for the taliban or al-qaeda. when ukraine _ for the taliban or al-qaeda. when ukraine reacted _ for the taliban or al-qaeda. when ukraine reacted with _ for the taliban or al-qaeda. when ukraine reacted with the _ for the taliban or al-qaeda. when ukraine reacted with the russian i ukraine reacted with the russian invasion, — ukraine reacted with the russian invasion, i— ukraine reacted with the russian invasion, i didn't _ ukraine reacted with the russian invasion, i didn't see _ ukraine reacted with the russian invasion, i didn't see you - ukraine reacted with the russian| invasion, i didn't see you shed... all invasion, ididn't see you shed... all of— invasion, i didn't see you shed... all of a _ invasion, i didn't see you shed... all of a sudden, _ invasion, i didn't see you shed... all of a sudden, here _ invasion, i didn't see you shed... all of a sudden, here you - invasion, i didn't see you shed... all of a sudden, here you are, i all of a sudden, here you are, grieving — all of a sudden, here you are, grieving for— all of a sudden, here you are, grieving for the _ all of a sudden, here you are, grieving for the palestinians . all of a sudden, here you are, - grieving for the palestinians whose leaders _ grieving for the palestinians whose leaders have — grieving for the palestinians whose leaders have created _ grieving for the palestinians whose leaders have created the _ grieving for the palestinians whose leaders have created the worst - leaders have created the worst atrocities — leaders have created the worst atrocities we _ leaders have created the worst atrocities we have _ leaders have created the worst atrocities we have seen - leaders have created the worst atrocities we have seen in - leaders have created the worst atrocities we have seen in this| atrocities we have seen in this century— atrocities we have seen in this century since _ atrocities we have seen in this century since the _ atrocities we have seen in this century since the holocaust. i atrocities we have seen in this . century since the holocaust. can i 'ust “um century since the holocaust. can i justjump in--- — century since the holocaust. can i justjump in... there _ century since the holocaust. can i justjump in... there is _ century since the holocaust. can i justjump in... there is a really i justjump in... there is a really important _ justjump in... there is a really important few— justjump in... there is a really important few corrections - justjump in... there is a really important few corrections that l justjump in... there is a really - important few corrections that need to be _ important few corrections that need to be made. the most important point i to be made. the most important point i want _ to be made. the most important point i want to— to be made. the most important point i want to make right now is about representation and freedom of movement because you, you live in tel aviv, _ movement because you, you live in tel aviv, you — movement because you, you live in tel aviv, you are able to travel to london _ tel aviv, you are able to travel to london to— tel aviv, you are able to travel to london to represent yourself and israelis _ london to represent yourself and israelis on — london to represent yourself and israelis on this show but i cannot say the _ israelis on this show but i cannot say the same for palestinians living in gaza _ say the same for palestinians living in gaza who — say the same for palestinians living in gaza who are unable to leave to come _ in gaza who are unable to leave to come to _ in gaza who are unable to leave to come to london and sit on a television _ come to london and sit on a television show like this and to speak— television show like this and to speak for— television show like this and to speak for themselves. so you are calling _ speak for themselves. so you are calling people certain words who cannot, — calling people certain words who cannot. ..._ calling people certain words who cannot. m— calling people certain words who cannot, . , ., �* cannot, their leaders won't net them. cannot, their leaders won't net them- you — cannot, their leaders won't net them. you have _ cannot, their leaders won't net them. you have the _ cannot, their leaders won't net them. you have the body - cannot, their leaders won't net them. you have the body shop, i cannot, their leaders won't net i them. you have the body shop, they currentl . them. you have the body shop, they currently. antony _ them. you have the body shop, they currently. antony blinken _ them. you have the body shop, they currently. antony blinken did - them. you have the body shop, they currently. antony blinken did say - them. you have the body shop, they currently. antony blinken did say on | currently. antony blinken did say on sunday that — currently. antony blinken did say on sunday that hamas _ currently. antony blinken did say on sunday that hamas is _ currently. antony blinken did say on sunday that hamas is preventing - currently. antony blinken did say on | sunday that hamas is preventing the us passport holders from leaving. are not talking about us passport holders. — are not talking about us passport holders, and took about palestinians living _ holders, and took about palestinians living in_ holders, and took about palestinians living in because i work right now being _ living in because i work right now being called unimaginable names, unable _ being called unimaginable names, unable to— being called unimaginable names, unable to defend themselves, unable to have _ unable to defend themselves, unable to have a _ unable to defend themselves, unable to have a microphone, unable to have journalists tell their stories. the gaza _ journalists tell their stories. the gaza bureau chief of aljazeera today, — gaza bureau chief of aljazeera today, as — gaza bureau chief of aljazeera today, as he was reporting from gaza, _ today, as he was reporting from gaza, had — today, as he was reporting from gaza, had his wife, son and daughter killed _ gaza, had his wife, son and daughter killed in_ gaza, had his wife, son and daughter killed in an _ gaza, had his wife, son and daughter killed in an israeli strike. that's what _ killed in an israeli strike. that's what is — killed in an israeli strike. that's what is happening. there is no representation for palestinians. are not here _ representation for palestinians. are not here to — representation for palestinians. are not here to speak for them but because — not here to speak for them but because i'm here i will make that point _ because i'm here i will make that oint. ~ ., because i'm here i will make that oint. . ., ., ,, , because i'm here i will make that oint. . . . ,, , , ., point. what happens in terms of shuttin: point. what happens in terms of shutting down — point. what happens in terms of shutting down care _ point. what happens in terms of shutting down care from - point. what happens in terms of- shutting down care from tomorrow? what will people do? plain shutting down care from tomorrow? what will people do?— what will people do? plain and siml what will people do? plain and simply what — what will people do? plain and simply what we _ what will people do? plain and simply what we are _ what will people do? plain and simply what we are discussing | what will people do? plain and| simply what we are discussing it with is collective punishment which is a breach of international had mary —— at unitarian laws and we have been putting this out from the start, that gaza civilians should not be held accountable and killed in indiscriminate bombing which we have seen them and we have reported from unrwa, we see the statistics everyday. 5000 civilian casualties in gaza put it we can talk about the semantics around how aid will be delivered, if we can guarantee it will get into the hands but as humanitarians, we had to say that aid is needed and it must be delivered and crucially, we must have a ceasefire, and the civilian deaths, developed the humanitarian aid. i5 deaths, developed the humanitarian aid. , , ., ., ., ., ., aid. is the question of aid not now tackled up — aid. is the question of aid not now tackled up with _ aid. is the question of aid not now tackled up with the _ aid. is the question of aid not now tackled up with the hostages - aid. is the question of aid not now tackled up with the hostages and l aid. is the question of aid not now i tackled up with the hostages and the others including these jewelled nationals, these policies were the passports because that seems to be the shape of the negotiation going on —— dual nationals. if you let people out, aid will start and that is what is happening in a limited way following those early hostage releases. , ., ., ., releases. yes and no. there are arallel releases. yes and no. there are parallel tracks _ releases. yes and no. there are parallel tracks of _ releases. yes and no. there are parallel tracks of negotiations i parallel tracks of negotiations happening. both equally crucial .1 is allowing humanitarian assistance and yesterday, as you said, people are dying, — and yesterday, as you said, people are dying, babies are dying in incubators from israeli babies died as well— incubators from israeli babies died as well and it is tragic in my heart breaks— as well and it is tragic in my heart breaks for— as well and it is tragic in my heart breaks for them just as it breaks for the _ breaks for them just as it breaks for the palestinian children, they should _ for the palestinian children, they should not be a comparison between the two _ should not be a comparison between the two. there are humanitarian negotiations going on and hostage negotiations going on and hostage negotiations going on and hostage negotiations going on and those are parallel— negotiations going on and those are parallel but related. the qataris have _ parallel but related. the qataris have told — parallel but related. the qataris have told hamas that if you release a large _ have told hamas that if you release a large number of hostages, it will probably— a large number of hostages, it will probably be conducive to letting in more _ probably be conducive to letting in more humanitarian aid but they are still two _ more humanitarian aid but they are still two separate issues. that more humanitarian aid but they are still two separate issues.— still two separate issues. that is important. _ still two separate issues. that is important. and _ still two separate issues. that is important, and it _ still two separate issues. that is important, and it was _ still two separate issues. that is important, and it was rumoured | still two separate issues. that is i important, and it was rumoured on israeli media in the last 36 hours, that a large number, maybe 50 or more hostages would be released so with that change the picture in terms of fuel and other humanitarian shipments? i terms of fuel and other humanitarian shiments? ., , ., terms of fuel and other humanitarian shiments? ., , . ., ,., shipments? i doubt it and the reason is that with all _ shipments? i doubt it and the reason is that with all the _ shipments? i doubt it and the reason is that with all the descriptions - shipments? i doubt it and the reason is that with all the descriptions of - is that with all the descriptions of the suffering _ is that with all the descriptions of the suffering of— is that with all the descriptions of the suffering of the _ is that with all the descriptions of the suffering of the palestinians, | the suffering of the palestinians, one must— the suffering of the palestinians, one must realise _ the suffering of the palestinians, one must realise that _ the suffering of the palestinians, one must realise that the - the suffering of the palestinians, one must realise that the reasoni one must realise that the reason this is— one must realise that the reason this is happening _ one must realise that the reason this is happening in— one must realise that the reason this is happening in the - one must realise that the reason this is happening in the recent. this is happening in the recent those — this is happening in the recent those babies— this is happening in the recent those babies are _ this is happening in the recent those babies are in _ this is happening in the recent those babies are in danger- this is happening in the recent those babies are in danger is i those babies are in danger is because _ those babies are in danger is because hamas _ those babies are in danger is because hamas are - those babies are in danger is because hamas are using - those babies are in danger is i because hamas are using their those babies are in danger is - because hamas are using their own people _ because hamas are using their own people and — because hamas are using their own people and civilians _ because hamas are using their own people and civilians as _ because hamas are using their own people and civilians as human - people and civilians as human shields — people and civilians as human shields the _ people and civilians as human shields. the huge _ people and civilians as human shields. the huge difference i shields. the huge difference between _ shields. the huge difference between- - -_ shields. the huge difference between... ., ., ., , between... you have a responsibility in targeting — between... you have a responsibility in targeting as _ between... you have a responsibility in targeting as well. _ between... you have a responsibility in targeting as well. we _ between... you have a responsibility in targeting as well. we don't - in targeting as well. we don't tartet, in targeting as well. we don't target. we — in targeting as well. we don't target, we never _ in targeting as well. we don't target, we never targeted - in targeting as well. we don't - target, we never targeted civilians, it is you _ target, we never targeted civilians, it is you british— target, we never targeted civilians, it is you british to _ target, we never targeted civilians, it is you british to describe - target, we never targeted civilians, it is you british to describe the - it is you british to describe the army— it is you british to describe the army as — it is you british to describe the army as the _ it is you british to describe the army as the most _ it is you british to describe the army as the most modern - it is you british to describe the army as the most modern in l it is you british to describe the i army as the most modern in the world, _ army as the most modern in the world, we — army as the most modern in the world, we tell— army as the most modern in the world, we tell the _ army as the most modern in the world, we tell the people - army as the most modern in the world, we tell the people to - world, we tell the people to leavem _ world, we tell the people to leave... ~ .., world, we tell the people to leave- - -_ world, we tell the people to leave- - -— world, we tell the people to leave... ~ , ., i world, we tell the people to leave... ~ , ., [m leave... where can they go to? i am afraid we are... _ afraid we are... they talk over each other we are out of time.— we are out of time. israel is protecting — we are out of time. israel is protecting its _ we are out of time. israel is protecting its citizens, - we are out of time. israel is i protecting its citizens, hamas is using _ protecting its citizens, hamas is using that — protecting its citizens, hamas is using that as _ protecting its citizens, hamas is using that as human _ protecting its citizens, hamas is using that as human shields. . protecting its citizens, hamas is using that as human shields. thank ou ve using that as human shields. thank you very much. _ using that as human shields. thank you very much. l'm _ using that as human shields. thank you very much, i'm afraid - using that as human shields. thank you very much, i'm afraid we - using that as human shields. thank you very much, i'm afraid we havel using that as human shields. thank. you very much, i'm afraid we have to leave it there. we're going to look now at how the crisis in the middle east is shaping politics elsewhere. david's in washington and in a few minutes will report on how the response from joe biden might impact his hopes of re—election. first, closer to home, and the evolving humanitarian crisis has prompted a new statement from the opposition leader, keir starmer. he argues that aid deliveries have to be regular, fast, and safe and that, in the long—term, there needs to be a viable palestinian state alongside a secure israel. while he said that he had "repeatedly" made his point about aid deliveries, some detect a change of tone. that follows critcisms of the labour leader from supporters of the palestinian cause or those who in general think he's been too supportive of israel. joe's here to decode the gaza fault lines within the party. keir starmer�*s position on this conflict has largely mirrored rishi sunak�*s. but his intra—party problems began two weeks ago when he said this. israel must have that, does have that right to defend herself and hamas bears responsibility. a siege is appropriate? cutting off power, cutting off water, sir keir? well, i think that israel does have that right. it is an ongoing situation. obviously everything should be done within international law. the suggestion that israel "has the right" to withhold power and water from gaza led to a backlash amongst some of his mps, and from a pretty broad minority of them. he later clarified his comments, saying he meant the country had a right to self—defence. but then sir keir arguably made the situation worse with a hastily arranged trip to a cardiff mosque, and by marking it with this tweet. it went down so badly that last night the south wales islamic centre said sir keir had "gravely misrepresented" the nature of his visit. some argue all of this may be why he avoided the topic of the israel/gaza conflict at prime minister's questions. but one of his front benchers didn't. this is collective punishment of the palestinian people in gaza for crimes they did not commit. how many more innocent palestinians must die before this prime minister calls for a humanitarian ceasefire? a shadow minister calling for a ceasefire, which of course is not labour policy, is a little awkward for the party leadership. yasmin qureshi remains in herjob and after that session, she was among a group of muslim mps who met with the labour leader. the party won't confirm who attended but two of the people in the room said it was these 12, plus a labour peer and starmer�*s chief of staff, sue gray. and while one mp present was pretty positive... i think the meeting was good. i think we, as muslim mps, we called the meeting. the leadership, both in terms of sir keir and angela, both listened to us. others had slightly contrasting views. another mp attending told me starmer "appeared to be listening but it's too little too late. the horse has already bolted." they said, "labour should be the home of muslims. it's seen as a betrayal, a betrayal of our values." and when i asked this source, this mp, whether anything was achieved by that meeting, they replied, "not at all. we'll regroup tomorrow." the group's key ask — that labour back a ceasefire — was not agreed to. but the party's position has softened today with a new statement emphasising the urgent aid emergency and sir keir�*s support for humanitarian pauses. one senior mp told me tonight damage had been done but that's now gradually being fixed. i think we are moving to the right position. i think our statements now are beginning to equate the loss of civilian life on all sides as absolutely wrong, that it's wrong that there should be any blockade of gaza, it's right that we should now be pressing hard to get humanitarian aid into gaza and more of it. but there is not a situation yet where labour are calling for a ceasefire. we've almost got there. we've called for a humanitarian pause, which echoes what the united states president biden's administration called for last night. that's a good step forward. i want to go further to say, yes, we need a ceasefire. as for speculation we could see front bench resignations, one involved told me that was, quote, "nonsense". though they used a slightly different word. so far those choosing to walk have been councillors, not parliamentarians. but if the unrest spread — and that looks unlikely tonight — it could be a problem. shaista aziz is among the labour councillors who've resigned, so she's now sitting as an independent on oxford city council. shejoins us now. and john mcternan is also with us, a former political secretary to tony blair. welcome, both. shaista, why did you resign? brute welcome, both. shaista, why did you resin? ~ ., welcome, both. shaista, why did you resin? ~ . . ., welcome, both. shaista, why did you resin? . . . ., ., resign? we made it clear in a resignation — resign? we made it clear in a resignation statement - resign? we made it clear in a resignation statement that i resign? we made it clear in a| resignation statement that we resign? we made it clear in a - resignation statement that we resign because of the fact that the leader was endorsing collective punishment of the palestinians in gaza when he gave that interview, which everyone has heard. obviously since then he has heard. obviously since then he has tried to suggest that he did not say what he said. we have all heard he said. there are some people who are suggesting to us, those of us that have resigned, that this is an international issue, not a local issue for councillors. what we say to them is, what's happening internationally does impact communities here locally as well, and the issue of palestine is something that has been coming up on the doorstep. and we've received a lot of support in times of our resignation. we felt we had no choice and this is why we took this stand. ., ., ,, ., �* , stand. you have hired keir starmer's statement today, _ stand. you have hired keir starmer's statement today, full _ stand. you have hired keir starmer's statement today, full and _ statement today, full and uninterrupted humanitarian access, two state solution, palestine is an independent entity. not good enough? no time do so to rethink your decision? i no time do so to rethink your decision?— no time do so to rethink your decision? ~ �* , ,., ., no time do so to rethink your decision? ~ �* , ., ., decision? i think it's important to be nuanced _ decision? i think it's important to be nuanced about _ decision? i think it's important to be nuanced about this. _ decision? i think it's important to be nuanced about this. i - decision? i think it's important to be nuanced about this. i am - decision? i think it's important to i be nuanced about this. i am pleased the leader has come out and said something different to what he was saying before. ithink something different to what he was saying before. i think things are beginning to shift in the right direction. so calling for humanitarian pause, for example, is really important but ultimately the prime minister of this country and the leader of the opposition need to collectively call for a ceasefire, an immediate ceasefire, which is what many mps are now calling for andindeed what many mps are now calling for and indeed councillors are calling for as well. so until this point that cole has not been made but i welcome the fact there is a shift in terms of the being taken.- welcome the fact there is a shift in terms of the being taken. john, what ou make terms of the being taken. john, what you make of — terms of the being taken. john, what you make of that? _ terms of the being taken. john, what you make of that? look, _ terms of the being taken. john, what you make of that? look, it _ terms of the being taken. john, what you make of that? look, it takes i terms of the being taken. john, what you make of that? look, it takes two sides to have — you make of that? look, it takes two sides to have a _ you make of that? look, it takes two sides to have a ceasefire. _ you make of that? look, it takes two sides to have a ceasefire. if- you make of that? look, it takes two sides to have a ceasefire. if israel. sides to have a ceasefire. if israel stops _ sides to have a ceasefire. if israel stops using — sides to have a ceasefire. if israel stops using arms then israel is surrendering the face of a terrorist organisation that has slaughtered 1400 israel is in one day on october the 7th _ 1400 israel is in one day on october the 7th -- — 1400 israel is in one day on october the 7th. --1400 1400 israel is in one day on october the 7th. —— 1400 israels. both sides need _ the 7th. —— 1400 israels. both sides need to— the 7th. —— 1400 israels. both sides need to be — the 7th. —— 1400 israels. both sides need to be involved in a ceasefire. what _ need to be involved in a ceasefire. what we _ need to be involved in a ceasefire. what we need is to protect civilians and limit _ what we need is to protect civilians and limit civilian death on both sides. — and limit civilian death on both sides. we _ and limit civilian death on both sides, we need humanitarian corridors, _ sides, we need humanitarian corridors, but in the end this crisis — corridors, but in the end this crisis was _ corridors, but in the end this crisis was started by hamas and will only be _ crisis was started by hamas and will only be stopped when hamas put down their arms _ only be stopped when hamas put down their arms. ,, ., , ., only be stopped when hamas put down their arms-- so _ only be stopped when hamas put down their arms.- so this _ their arms. shaista? so this conflict was _ their arms. shaista? so this conflict was actually - their arms. shaista? so this | conflict was actually written's colonial legacy in relation to the israel palestine conflict —— part of britain's colonial legacy. one of the ritz is the occupation of palestine. just to be clear that does not obviously give any excuse to hamas to go into israel and slaughter men, women and children, nothing allows that. but the point here is that international actors like the uk government and the labour party in the future prime minister of this country, who is expected to be keir starmer, have been very cavalier in relation to not calling for a ceasefire for that we have seen more than 6000 people killed in gaza and the ground and has not happened yet. we've also seen horrific scenes of death, murder and distress in israel. —— and the ground invasion has not happened yet was opened by the way there's more call for a ceasefire coming out of israel than in the uk. the only international actor which has any— the only international actor which has any influence on israel is the us. has any influence on israel is the us what — has any influence on israel is the us. what president biden is doing, i think is— us. what president biden is doing, i think is right. he has successfully forced _ think is right. he has successfully forced moderation of netanyahu and the israeli _ forced moderation of netanyahu and the israeli government, that's good. it's the israeli government, that's good. it's the _ the israeli government, that's good. it's the americans were the international actors who can do something about this. the labour party. _ something about this. the labour party. let's— something about this. the labour party, let's remember, has got 200 mps in _ party, let's remember, has got 200 mps in the — party, let's remember, has got 200 mps in the uk parliament. the uk itself— mps in the uk parliament. the uk itself is _ mps in the uk parliament. the uk itself is no — mps in the uk parliament. the uk itself is no longer in the eu. we are tiny— itself is no longer in the eu. we are tiny country with history of involvement in... we have an ability to influence — involvement in... we have an ability to influence what's going on particularly in israel and palestine.— particularly in israel and palestine. , palestine. but you recognise the issue of principle _ palestine. but you recognise the issue of principle for— palestine. but you recognise the issue of principle for many i palestine. but you recognise the i issue of principle for many members, including mps and councillors? i recognise the issue in principle and people _ recognise the issue in principle and people have views on how israel should _ people have views on how israel should act— people have views on how israel should act on how hamas should act. we are _ should act on how hamas should act. we are powerless in the point of the labour— we are powerless in the point of the labour party in is to become labour in power— labour party in is to become labour in power -- — labour party in is to become labour in power —— make the point of the labour— in power —— make the point of the labour party— in power —— make the point of the labour party in opposition is to become — labour party in opposition is to become labour in power. views of that power— become labour in power. views of that power are pointless, they shouting — that power are pointless, they shouting into a vacuum. the uk is not able _ shouting into a vacuum. the uk is not able as— shouting into a vacuum. the uk is not able as an actor to change what is happening on the ground and israel— is happening on the ground and israel and — is happening on the ground and israel and palestine. we can change uk government if we wish to be united _ uk government if we wish to be united as — uk government if we wish to be united as a _ uk government if we wish to be united as a party, and it is not in the interests of the country for a labour— the interests of the country for a labour to— the interests of the country for a labour to be fighting on this, which we can't _ labour to be fighting on this, which we can't influence, rather than fighting — we can't influence, rather than fighting the tories. our enemy is the tories — fighting the tories. our enemy is the tories not the israeli government or hamas. if the tories not the israeli government or hamas. if this issue of aid has become _ government or hamas. if this issue of aid has become tied _ government or hamas. if this issue of aid has become tied up - government or hamas. if this issue of aid has become tied up with i of aid has become tied up with hostages, shaista, presumably you would say to hamas, just like the hostages go? would say to hamas, 'ust like the hostages goth would say to hamas, 'ust like the hostages gosh would say to hamas, 'ust like the hostages goth hostages go? taking hostages is atainst hostages go? taking hostages is against international _ hostages go? taking hostages is against international law, i hostages go? taking hostages is| against international law, against the geneva convention, those hostages need to be returned unharmed immediately. at the point here is that aid and accessed aid should not be tied with anything. it should not be tied with anything. it should be given, it should be granted unconditionally and the problem here is that the british government and the labour party have overly politicised the issue of aid and a ceasefire. in any conflict in the world where people are being killed in horrific conditions and circumstances, including lots and lots of children, it is imperative for all international actors to call for all international actors to call for all international actors to call for a ceasefire and calling for a ceasefire now has become a very controversial issue which i find staggering. controversial issue which i find staggering-— controversial issue which i find staggering. well, people would differentiate _ staggering. well, people would differentiate between _ staggering. well, people would differentiate between a - staggering. well, people would differentiate between a pause, | staggering. well, people would i differentiate between a pause, say, for humanitarian, you know, between these hours, aid can move, and a ceasefire, which implies that's it, your ability to take... ceasefire, which implies that's it, your ability to take. . ._ ceasefire, which implies that's it, your ability to take... your ability to take. .. hamas won't sto- your ability to take... hamas won't sto- firint your ability to take... hamas won't stop firing rockets _ your ability to take... hamas won't stop firing rockets and _ your ability to take... hamas won't stop firing rockets and that's i your ability to take... hamas won't stop firing rockets and that's not . stop firing rockets and that's not tolerable — stop firing rockets and that's not tolerable for a democracy like israel. — tolerable for a democracy like israel. for— tolerable for a democracy like israel, for the israeli people, tolerable for a democracy like israel, forthe israeli people, it is intolerable for the palestinians and arabs— is intolerable for the palestinians and arabs living in israel that they are being — and arabs living in israel that they are being targeted by hamas, hamas don't represent the palestinian people. — don't represent the palestinian people, they are terrorists and what terrorists _ people, they are terrorists and what terrorists do is attack and kill and maim _ terrorists do is attack and kill and maim and — terrorists do is attack and kill and maim and try to create conflict in other— maim and try to create conflict in other countries, set us against ourselves, _ other countries, set us against ourselves, where is actually the envy _ ourselves, where is actually the envy here — ourselves, where is actually the envy here is... we ourselves, where is actually the envy here is. . .— ourselves, where is actually the en here is... . ., �* ., ., envy here is... we don't have a huge amount envy here is. .. we don't have a huge amount of— envy here is... we don't have a huge amount of time _ envy here is... we don't have a huge amount of time but _ envy here is... we don't have a huge amount of time but one _ envy here is... we don't have a huge amount of time but one thing - envy here is... we don't have a huge amount of time but one thing i i amount of time but one thing i wanted to ask is, did keir starmer see this as a chance to put a clear difference or clear dividing line between himself and gemma corbyn, is that why he made those remarks and has it misfired in that sense? —— jeremy corbyn. to has it misfired in that sense? -- jeremy corbyn— has it misfired in that sense? -- jerem corb n. ., ., , . , jeremy corbyn. to the honest jeremy corb n the jeremy corbyn. to the honest jeremy corbyn the well _ jeremy corbyn. to the honest jeremy corbyn the well about _ jeremy corbyn. to the honest jeremy corbyn the well about this _ jeremy corbyn. to the honest jeremy corbyn the well about this discourse l corbyn the well about this discourse in the _ corbyn the well about this discourse in the labour party, the labour party— in the labour party, the labour party united in a one—minute silence for those _ party united in a one—minute silence for those by— party united in a one—minute silence for those by hamas at the party conference, that was a great, moving moment _ conference, that was a great, moving moment. the labour party has actually— moment. the labour party has actually stand on the side of israeli — actually stand on the side of israeli self—defence because we've always _ israeli self—defence because we've always been supportive of israel. alas quick— always been supportive of israel. alas quick word, shaista? of always been supportive of israel. alas quick word, shaista?- alas quick word, shaista? of the labour party _ alas quick word, shaista? of the labour party should _ alas quick word, shaista? of the labour party should absolutely i labour party should absolutely condemn the horrific terrorist atrocities inside israel, as all decent minded people should, and it should be calling for international law to be upheld and should be calling for a ceasefire.- law to be upheld and should be calling for a ceasefire. shaista and john, calling for a ceasefire. shaista and john. thank _ calling for a ceasefire. shaista and john. thank you — calling for a ceasefire. shaista and john, thank you both _ calling for a ceasefire. shaista and john, thank you both very - calling for a ceasefire. shaista and john, thank you both very much i calling for a ceasefire. shaista and | john, thank you both very much for that. keir starmer might easily compare notes withjoseph biden about the tensions caused within their respective parties by the awful events in the middle east. in both cases sympathy with the plight of palestinians burns bright within the progressive fringe, while others rally behind israel's right of self defence. forjoe biden, large scale military deployments intended to deter hezbollah and iran, as well as an unprecedented involvement in israeli decision making, are all about preventing a bigger war and, the white house would argue, even greater suffering in gaza. david's in washington for us and has this report. what happens in the rooms and chambers of these corridors may well determine immediate events in the middle east. in the meetings and messages, the us congress will influence how much leeway israel is given, how much military aid, how much precious us diplomatic capital. the president of the united states can, of course, do a tremendous amountjust on his own authority. the movement of carrier strike groups into the mediterranean is testament to that. but if he wants to spend money in the middle east, well, joe biden needs congress. the security package i'm sending to congress and asking congress to do is an unprecedented commitment to israel's security. but some democrats are unhappy with the level of military support being promised. matt duss was foreign policy adviser to bernie sanders. he says the biden administration's position is increasingly at odds with the views of younger democrats. i think you have a number of democrats in congress who are being much more vocal about saying, not that, not to be anti—israel, but to say, listen, there are two peoples here, palestinians and israelis. we need to show care and solidarity with the palestinian people and these civilians who are being killed every day in the hundreds. and i think that is a reflection of a growing constituency, a growing movement within the democratic party that takes the issue of palestinian rights and palestinian lives more seriously. but right now, that sort of call seems to have little support within congress. can we have a quick word for the bbc? ben cardin is chair of the senate foreign relations committee. do you think the us should join calls for an immediate ceasefire in the region? ijust came back from the region. hamas must be taken out. there is no future for the palestinian people with hamas. israel's security demands it. the atrocities i saw are things i never thought i would see in my life. the photos, the videos, talking to the families of hostages. it is absolutely essential that hamas is taken out of that region as we did with isis. it's a similar type of an organisation. many republicans sound equally resolute. every drop of blood that is spilt there is on the hands of hamas, not on the hands of israel. they could end this tomorrow. they lay down their arms, they surrender and turn themselves in, killing the civilians is over. these people are cowards. us foreign policy in the middle east since the obama era has been focused on trying to neutralise the threat from iran through engagement and diplomacy. now it's carrier strike groups that are doing the talking. right now, no one knows what will deter and what will provoke. i think it's extremely dangerous. i'm personally very worried about it and i'm asking myself every day, i do people understand how this could very quickly unravel? i if israel does not prevail, over hamas certainly, i but really more over the coalition of hamas and hezbollah, i then every ally of the united states in the region will know _ that it is vulnerable to iran and the united states- will not stand up to it. every ally in the region is going to l move toward iran and toward china. it's already happening. the hedge away from - the united states, toward iran and china, is well under way. but the us is now heading into an election year and support for israel, says matt duss, could make the difference in some democrats' minds when it comes to voting forjoe biden. you have younger voters who understand the issue of palestinian rights as part of a broader kind of approach to racialjustice and fairness and equality. and i think they are right. so, yes, i think the democratic party needs to take that seriously. the president and his team should take that very seriously because, again, no one should be under any illusions about, if it comes down to a choice between biden and trump, that choice is easy. but i doubt this will drive democrats into the arms of trump. but it could really disenchant and make some voters simply stay home. and i think, i'm concerned about that and i hope the president and his team are concerned about that. this is not the fightjoe biden wanted, but it is the one he's got. although us public opinion seems to support his support for israel, these are volatile times and events are moving fast. david grossman with that report. "given the significant uncertainty, there is insufficient evidence to rule out" that al "could pose an existential threat". that's a warning that might sound familiar by now — but it's also one a government report will set out in detail tomorrow ahead of an ai summit next week. rishi sunak�*s also giving a speech on how — he says — "we have a global responsibility to understand and address the risks" of artificial intelligence — while also talking—up the potential benefits. in a moment, we'll hear from a leading ai expert who's contributed to this report — but first, ben's been digesting it. what is the big idea behind this? it's worth putting in the context of the uk government's thinking. this government started out by regarding artificial intelligence as a prime post—brexit economic opportunity — and there was a lot like a touch regulation to suck investment into the uk. but that plan began to look somewhat outdated — reckless even — when many in the ai and tech community started raising the alarm this year about the potential threats posed by alto humanity itself if it isn't properly regulated, putting the risk on a similar level to nuclear war and pandemics. so the uk government pivoted from promoting the uk from a centre of ai light touch regulation to the capital of ai safety — and that was the genesis of this summit next week at bletchley park. and that message tomorrow? that it's a balancing act between the economic opportunities and the risks. he will say that al he will say that ai will bring new knowledge and opportunities for economic growth but also new dangers and fears. there's a fair amount of hype around ai but at the same time we are seeing a genuine breakthroughs in things like medical science on the back of it and the speed at which the technology is evolving makes many confident it will throw up many more applications, ones we cannot even predict yet. and the uk is well—positioned to capitalise on that with our higher education sector which is strong in this area and hosting google�*s deep mind technologies. as of the risks from hacking to disinformation to some of the existential threats from rogue general purpose ai, of course it will not be easy to counter them but experts tend to agree that it does make sense to some, multilateral regulation and coordination architecture as much as that is possible, and the summit next week in the uk is aiming to start building some of that architecture. we are nowjoined by yoshua bengio, a leading expert in artificial intelligence, who also reviewed the governments report due to be published tomorrow. thank you forjoining us. what is the existential threat in your view, what form might it take?— the existential threat in your view, what form might it take? well, there are many scenarios _ what form might it take? well, there are many scenarios one _ what form might it take? well, there are many scenarios one can - what form might it take? well, there are many scenarios one can think - what form might it take? well, there are many scenarios one can think of. are many scenarios one can think of but when there will be ai systems