the palestinian prime minister talks to newsnight — what chance of a peaceful resolution to the conflict in the middle east? the question is, how do you get out of the crisis? there is a report out today that while israel is also a crisis, that there is a need to sit down and end the conflict. to discuss the palestinian prime minister's view that this war provides an opportunity, we'll bejoined by the israeli government spokesperson, eylon levy. we'll also be assessing the impact the israeli military campaign is having on hamas with hugh lovatt, an expert in the middle east. and as the number of signatures to a petition in support of britishjews passes more than 38,000, including names such as sir tom stoppard, vanessa feltz and sir richard dearlove, we speak to the tv presenter rachel riley about the rise in anti—semitism since october the 7th. also tonight, we speak to the victims of serious crimes, forced to pay thousands of pounds if they want the transcipts of their trial. they did say you have to pay but i didn't think it was good to be in astronomical cost. tonight, israel's ambassador to the un, gilad erdan, has called for the resignation of the un secretary general antonio guterres, following his speech at the meeting of the un security council in new york. guterres, who has called for an humanitarian ceasefire, said that the october the 7th attack by hamas on israel did not happen in a vacuum, but that the palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. he also said that the grievances of the palestinine people cannot justify the appalling attacks by hamas, and those appalling attacks cannotjustify the collective punishment of the palestinian people. the palestinians are divided by israeli land, walls and fences. three million palestinians who live in the occupied west bank live with something that looks like a more functional government — it has ministries, ambassadors posted throughout the world and secular politics. but the palestinian authority hasn't held elections for more than 15 years, and it also seems unable to stop the increasing encroachment of israeli settlements into palestinian land in the west bank — regarded as illegal in international law, though disputed by israel. and so there is a collapse of faith in the nearest thing the palestinians have to a legitimate state, and with it a collapse of faith in a diplomatic solution to the conflict with israel. so what next for the palestinian authority? enter prime minister mohammad shtayyeh, likely to succeed president abbas — an economist and moderate, he is a strong supporter of the two—state solution, but now, since the israel gaza war broke out and there have been deaths in the west bank as well as gaza, he is in the midst of the crisis. emir sat down with prime minister shtayyeh earlier today in ramallah. i called for an immediate ceasefire, and a call for immediate cessation and a call for immediate cessation and immediate opening of safe passages for international aid to get in, so that we will be also able to treat the injured. there are more than 50,000 palestinians injured who are waiting for treatment. no food supplies, no electricity supplies, no water supplies, so the situation is extremely catastrophic. and the continuation of this israeli bombardment will obviously cause more lives to be lost.— more lives to be lost. clearly for a ceasefire to _ more lives to be lost. clearly for a ceasefire to happen _ more lives to be lost. clearly for a ceasefire to happen israel - more lives to be lost. clearly for a ceasefire to happen israel needs l ceasefire to happen israel needs some kind of victory such as the release of all hostages. do you call for the release of all hostages? the issue is not — for the release of all hostages? tue: issue is not about for the release of all hostages? tte: issue is not about vickery. for the release of all hostages? tt2 issue is not about vickery. israel issue is not about vickery. israel is now in the mood of revenge. so if israel is in the mood of achieving victory, it's not going to get any victory. killing innocent people does not really lead to victory. if israel needs to be victorious, they have to sit down with the palestinians and put together a political plan so this does not defeat itself. by all means i would like to see hostages going home is. every hostage, every prisoner. at this only can come through a peaceful negotiation, a peaceful measure, peaceful solution that will put an end to all this suffering. presumably in the same breath as you would say indiscriminate violence, killing of civilians is wrong, you would also say the same about the october the 7th attack on the south of the show by hamas. t october the 7th attack on the south of the show by hamas.— october the 7th attack on the south of the show by hamas. i told you. we should not really _ of the show by hamas. i told you. we should not really look— of the show by hamas. i told you. we should not really look at _ should not really look at october the 7th only. what about the west bank? 92 palestinian lives have been lost and the 92 palestinians had been killed by settlers, by the army, and palestinians here on the west bank did not initiate anything. all palestinians are under attack. if we look at the october the 7th as a starting point, then we miss seeing the picture, then we miss seeing the picture, then we miss seeing the picture, then we miss seeing the map. imilli seeing the picture, then we miss seeing the map-— seeing the map. will use the context, seeing the map. will use the context. yes. _ seeing the map. will use the context, yes, but _ seeing the map. will use the context, yes, but the - seeing the map. will use the l context, yes, but the incidents seeing the map. will use the - context, yes, but the incidents on their own are also important, just as the world condemns the killing of civilians in the gaza strip, the world also condemn, don't you also condemn the killings of israeli civilians? t condemn the killings of israeli civilians? ., , condemn the killings of israeli civilians? . , ., , civilians? i have seen of course international— civilians? i have seen of course international leaders _ civilians? i have seen of course international leaders queueing | civilians? i have seen of course l international leaders queueing to support israel. i saw very few of them condemning the killing of innocent people in gaza. so therefore look, my dear friend, innocent people in gaza. so therefore look, my dearfriend, by all means, wants to see innocent people killedquiz—macro sure nobody does. so therefore, in the same way that we want to save the lives of our children and our women, we want to save the lives of everybody. so i don't see that is —— everything is isolated. i see things in totality. the issue with the palestinian people, the palestinian cause, the suffering of the palestinian people. i wonder if you recognise that what happened, the hamas attack is not only a tragedy for his release but a tragedy for the palestinian cause as well because to the outside world it has shifted how people regard the palestinian cause. t has shifted how people regard the palestinian cause.— palestinian cause. i mean, i have seen demonstrations _ palestinian cause. i mean, i have seen demonstrations in - palestinian cause. i mean, i have seen demonstrations in the - palestinian cause. i mean, i have i seen demonstrations in the streets of london, in the streets of berlin, the streets of paris and washington, chicago, everywhere. people are fed up with the situation. people want an end to this miserable situation. of the situation is, what is the of the situation is, what is the virtue? the virtue is actually that we reach a solution. that is most important thing. t we reach a solution. that is most important thing.— we reach a solution. that is most important thing. i would like to go back to last— important thing. i would like to go back to last week _ important thing. i would like to go back to last week and _ important thing. i would like to go back to last week and the - important thing. i would like to go back to last week and the terrible | back to last week and the terrible explosion blast at the al—ahli hospital in gaza. the us, israel, they had proof that it was a misfired palestinian rocket, others feel differently. i wonder, misfired palestinian rocket, others feel differently. iwonder, do misfired palestinian rocket, others feel differently. i wonder, do you feel differently. i wonder, do you feel like you have a duty to say to your people, let's wait to understand the facts and let's listen to what the truth might have been? tide listen to what the truth might have been? ~ ~' ., , listen to what the truth might have been? ~ ~ ., , , ., . been? we know the truth is. islamic jihad does been? we know the truth is. islamic jihad does not _ been? we know the truth is. islamic jihad does not have _ been? we know the truth is. islamic jihad does not have the _ been? we know the truth is. islamic jihad does not have the technical - jihad does not have the technical capacity, and one single missile, to kill 500 people. that is not the case. 0nly israel has the military capabilities to do that. and if you want to buy the story of the other side, look, israel has been spreading so many lies. i'm not defending any situation, i am saying that we have to get facts right. in saying that we have to avoid fake news. ., ' saying that we have to avoid fake news. . , ., , ., , news. there are different opinions which suggests — news. there are different opinions which suggests that _ news. there are different opinions which suggests that as _ news. there are different opinions which suggests that as a _ news. there are different opinions i which suggests that as a palestinian authority, is a leadership, you have to say we don't know, we must listen... ., ., , , listen... you are suggesting to me... listen... you are suggesting to me- -- are _ listen... you are suggesting to me... are not _ listen... you are suggesting to me... are not going _ listen... you are suggesting to me... are not going to - listen... you are suggesting to me... are not going to answer| listen... you are suggesting to - me... are not going to answer the way you want, my friend. i'm not defending any situation. i am saying that we have to get facts right. this sort of creating uncertainty about who did it is just simply not to allow people to reach the truth. the truth is that israel did it. t5 the truth is that israel did it. is it revealing a crisis in the political leadership here because it is encouraging people towards more violence? you can't completely protect safety of your civilians, we haven't had collections in the west bankin haven't had collections in the west bank in 16 years, this is a crisis. the question is, how do you get out of the crisis? there is an opportunity today for a while israel is also a crisis, that we are in difficult times, but there is a need to sit down and end the conflict. so out of this crisis, one has to make an opportunity. and i think there is an opportunity. and i think there is an opportunity. and i think there is an opportunity. the problem is that there is no leadership on the side of the israelis who are ready to sit down with us and settle the account and settle the problem and end the occupation and give the palestinians there are rights. my dear friend, there are rights. my dear friend, the palestinians have been in struggle, they have been fighting in every means and ways for the last 100 years. it is time for these people to enjoy their rights. it is time for these people to live with dignity. it is time for these people to live in a viable state of palestine with jerusalem to live in a viable state of palestine withjerusalem as its capital and the right to refuse to go back to their homes. 0therwise go back to their homes. otherwise the conflict will continue. the palestinians are not going to surrender. tt palestinians are not going to surrender-— palestinians are not going to surrender. . , ., ., surrender. if hamas was brought down in gaza, surrender. if hamas was brought down in gaza. would — surrender. if hamas was brought down in gaza, would the _ surrender. if hamas was brought down in gaza, would the palestinian - in gaza, would the palestinian authority accept the invitation to try and form some form of government there? tide try and form some form of government there? ~ ., ., ., ., ., there? we are not waiting for an invitation by _ there? we are not waiting for an invitation by anybody. _ there? we are not waiting for an invitation by anybody. the - invitation by anybody. the palestinian authority, palestinian leadership will not go to gaza on his dashboard initially military time. the bastion is live under military occupation, they should therefore any solution that can solve the gazza problem alone does not solve the west bank problem alone. it has to solve the palestinian problem. —— the gaza problem. joining me now from tel aviv is alon levy, a spokesperson for the israeli government. thank you forjoining us. if i can just ask, what is the position tonight about the ground offensivequiz—macro close to it, we not close to it? what is happening? thank you for having me on the show. before _ thank you for having me on the show. before i_ thank you for having me on the show. before i answer that i would like to respond _ before i answer that i would like to respond and say i was truly appalled at the _ respond and say i was truly appalled at the interview with the palestinian prime minister. he was questioned three times, no fewer than three — questioned three times, no fewer than three times whether he would condemn— than three times whether he would condemn the top of the seventh massacre. — condemn the top of the seventh massacre, the worst terror attack in world _ massacre, the worst terror attack in world history since 9/11, the brutal murder— world history since 9/11, the brutal murder of— world history since 9/11, the brutal murder of 1400 people, 320 refused to condemn that attack, in fact he said the _ to condemn that attack, in fact he said the struggle against israel has been going on for 100 years. 25 years— been going on for 100 years. 25 years before the state of israel was even established long before the... ithink— even established long before the... i think 56 _ even established long before the... i think 56 years with a number of years... he i think 56 years with a number of ears... ':: z: i think 56 years with a number of ears... ':: 11, ., i think 56 years with a number of years---— iautl i think 56 years with a number of i years---— itut i'm years... he said 100 years. but i'm auoin to years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go — years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go on _ years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go on and _ years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go on and ask— years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go on and ask you - years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go on and ask you a - years... he said 100 years. but i'm going to go on and ask you a little l going to go on and ask you a little later about whether or not there is going to be a position where anyone will sit down with each other in future but i want to get up to speed on what is happening now. why is there a hold—up on the ground invasion? there a hold-up on the ground invasion? , . there a hold-up on the ground invasion?— there a hold-up on the ground invasion? , ., ., ., invasion? israel katz united now around a single _ invasion? israel katz united now around a single goal— invasion? israel katz united now around a single goal and - invasion? israel katz united now around a single goal and that i invasion? israel katz united now around a single goal and that is| around a single goal and that is total— around a single goal and that is total victory against hamas in response _ total victory against hamas in response to the top of the seventh massacre — response to the top of the seventh massacre. when the next stage of the israeii _ massacre. when the next stage of the israeli operation is going to continue, not going to speculate on the movement of the troops, that will happen in accordance with our operational needs. the response to the too _ operational needs. the response to the too of— operational needs. the response to the top of the seventh massacre by the top of the seventh massacre by the brutai— the top of the seventh massacre by the brutal murder of 1400 people, whole _ the brutal murder of 1400 people, whole families burned their homes, children— whole families burned their homes, children who are cuffed, families that were — children who are cuffed, families that were shot dead, tortured, mutilated, the response is going to be mutilated, the response is going to he the _ mutilated, the response is going to be the total defeat of the terror organisation that... but be the total defeat of the terror organisation that. . ._ be the total defeat of the terror organisation that... but i wonder if the hostages _ organisation that... but i wonder if the hostages are _ organisation that... but i wonder if the hostages are a _ organisation that. .. but i wonder if the hostages are a factor— organisation that... but i wonder if the hostages are a factor or - organisation that... but i wonder if the hostages are a factor or not. i the hostages are a factor or not. because we have done interviews, it seems that that when the ground invasion starts, if the hostages out there, so be it, they may lose their lives, is that true? t5 there, so be it, they may lose their lives, is that true?— lives, is that true? is really society at _ lives, is that true? is really society at the moment - lives, is that true? is really l society at the moment is sick with worry— society at the moment is sick with worry about the fate of the hostages. the women and children being _ hostages. the women and children being held — hostages. the women and children being held hostage by hamas. 0ne hostages. the women and children being held hostage by hamas. one of them is _ being held hostage by hamas. one of them is nine years old. yesterday was his— them is nine years old. yesterday was his ninth birthday. he is a hostage — was his ninth birthday. he is a hostage of hamas. two weeks ago he was visiting _ hostage of hamas. two weeks ago he was visiting his grandparents as a kibbutz _ was visiting his grandparents as a kibbutz it— was visiting his grandparents as a kibbutz. it was invaded in the morning _ kibbutz. it was invaded in the morning. they brutally murdered his uncle _ morning. they brutally murdered his uncle and _ morning. they brutally murdered his uncle and they took him together with his _ uncle and they took him together with his grandparents, both aged 78 and with— with his grandparents, both aged 78 and with his mother into captivity has hostages into the gaza strip. his father— has hostages into the gaza strip. his father is sick with worry. he doesn't — his father is sick with worry. he doesn't know whether hamas saw his son's— doesn't know whether hamas saw his son's glasses, whether he saw dead bodies _ son's glasses, whether he saw dead bodies he — son's glasses, whether he saw dead bodies. he says he is taking steeping _ bodies. he says he is taking sleeping pills every night and he feels _ sleeping pills every night and he feels guilty every morning. this is the most terrible _ feels guilty every morning. this is the most terrible conflict, - feels guilty every morning. this is the most terrible conflict, and - feels guilty every morning. this is| the most terrible conflict, and you highlighted the plight of that little boy, but the truth... and little boy, but the truth... and there is no _ little boy, but the truth... and there is no excuse... - little boy, but the truth... and there is no excuse... children| there is no excuse... children everywhere — there is no excuse... children everywhere are _ there is no excuse... children everywhere are suffering, - there is no excuse... children - everywhere are suffering, children are suffering in gaza as well. this is a terrible situation. t’m are suffering in gaza as well. this is a terrible situation.— is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirstv- -- — is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirstv- -- can _ is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirstv- -- can i— is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirsty... can | just— is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirsty. .. can ijust ask— is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirsty. .. can ijust ask you, - is a terrible situation. i'm sorry, kirsty. .. can ijust ask you, you| kirsty. .. can i “ust ask you, you would accept _ kirsty. .. can ijust ask you, you would accept that _ kirsty. .. can ijust ask you, you would accept that the _ kirsty. .. can ijust ask you, you would accept that the children | kirsty. .. can ijust ask you, you| would accept that the children in gaza, who have died and have been wounded by the israeli air strikes, did not deserve to die, you accept that? the humanitarian suffering we are seeing in response to hamas's decision to declare war on israel is heartbreaking and i wish no—one was getting hurt. it is not is —— it is not a war israel wanted all started, we were caught off guard and surprise. we were caught off guard and surrise. �* ., , we were caught off guard and surrise. �* .,, ., ., surprise. but there was no aid in today and _ surprise. but there was no aid in today and that _ surprise. but there was no aid in today and that affects _ surprise. but there was no aid in today and that affects children . surprise. but there was no aid in | today and that affects children as well, you need to put fuel in to provide fresh water, water is a human right. so how does it help your cause to make sure that children don't get the medicine, never mind adults, but ordinary palestinians, that children don't get the medicine they need, children don't get food and children don't get water? is that any way in a sense to conduct this conflict? so let's sense to conduct this conflict? 5r let's set the record straight. aid is entering the gaza strip at the border with egypt. not today. there was a consignment of trucks and we are hopeful that will continue. you mentioned fuel and it's important to know hamas holds 5,000 litres of fuel in the gaza strip right now, i don't know if that includes the 4,000 litres it stole from unrwa a few days ago, but there was plenty of fuel in the gaza strip, the problem of course is the terror regime that controls the gaza strip and conducted the october the 7th massacre is choosing to keep that fuel in order to conduct its war against israel.— fuel in order to conduct its war against israel. the fuel is there and there _ against israel. the fuel is there and there is — against israel. the fuel is there and there is plenty _ against israel. the fuel is there and there is plenty of— against israel. the fuel is there and there is plenty of it. - against israel. the fuel is there and there is plenty of it. we . against israel. the fuel is there | and there is plenty of it. we are short of time and i want to ask you one very short final question. what the palestinian prime minister said was there is no leadership in israel ready to sit down. is there a chance of peace and peace talks between the palestinians and the israelis? kirsty, i very much hope that one day, we will be able to have peace in this land. for now, we have to destroy hamas, we have to defeat the terror organisation that perpetrated the october the 7th massacre because israel cannot go back to the conditions on the 6th of october, the 7th of october, that cannot happen, that would leave hamas free to butcher and to burn again and in no way can israel afford that. thank ou ve no way can israel afford that. thank you very much- _ there are no definitive figures for how many children have been killed or wounded in the conflict — on both sides. we know several babies were killed when hamas attacked, and for those who survived? on one kibbutzim, kfar aza, the authorities say twins, less than a year old, were orphaned when their parents were murdered. in gaza, the situation for children is desperate. numbers are impossible to confirm, but the charity save the children says at least 2,000 have been killed, many maimed, and more than a million are trapped, with nowhere to go. in a moment, we're going to assess how israel's military operations in gaza might play out in the coming days, and how effectively the aerial bombardment has been at neutralising hamas. first, here's a sense of the impact of the conflict for some of gaza's children, in materialfilmed by our colleagues at bbc arabic. a warning — viewers may find the footage we're about to show distressing. children of all ages, with nowhere to go to be safe in gaza. no shelter. no protection. defenceless. this was the scene at the weekend at al—aqsa martyrs hospital, in central gaza. children seeing things they should never see. the terrible phrase "collateral damage". forced to confront the senseless death of, in this case, this little girl's mother. at al—aqsa martyrs hospital, children with multiple injuries. some being tended, others waiting, bewildered and in pain. other children, many of them, in shock. without medicine, can these physical wounds ever heal? will the mental scarring be even greater? the israeli air force has been bombing gaza for more than two weeks, with the stated objective of toppling hamas and "removing the threat of terrorism" from the strip. targets have included the movement's political leaders and the commanders of its military wing, the al-qassam brigades. but how effective is that campaign and can it meet those objectives? with me is hugh lovatt, senior policy fellow with the middle east programme at the european council on foreign relations. first, who are the idf targeting in this phase of their campaign? there have been three _ this phase of their campaign? there have been three list _ this phase of their campaign? there have been three list of _ this phase of their campaign? ttee have been three list of targets, the first is the al-qassam brigades, which is the military wing of hamas. these are the fighters if you can call them that he took part in the brutal violence on october the 7th. israel said it will seek retribution against them. so far, the highest profile targets the israelis have hit as the commander of gaza's central district. so far unscathed is the top military leadership, including mohammed deif who has survived previous assassination attempts. the second list is the political leadership of hamas within gaza. so far, we can see there have been three of its members who have been three of its members who have been killed. however, most importantly, the third list is the senior most political leadership of hamas. so far, they have not been hit, they have escaped unscathed, in part because many of the senior members are located abroad in lebanon on and qatar and other countries. 50 lebanon on and qatar and other countries. lebanon on and qatar and other countries-— countries. so the targeting is of both the perpetrators _ countries. so the targeting is of both the perpetrators of - countries. so the targeting is of both the perpetrators of the - countries. so the targeting is of both the perpetrators of the actj countries. so the targeting is of i both the perpetrators of the act of terror and they are also targeting politicians. but tell me, what is the relationship between these two groups? the relationship between these two arou s? . , , the relationship between these two u-rous? . , ,., ., the relationship between these two u-rous? . , ,. ., ., groups? clearly, there is a lot of exchan . e groups? clearly, there is a lot of exchange and — groups? clearly, there is a lot of exchange and interaction - groups? clearly, there is a lot of. exchange and interaction between groups? clearly, there is a lot of- exchange and interaction between the political and military leadership. but we need to understand they are nonetheless their own separate institutional leadership structures. here we see on the graphic. and i think what is quite noticeable and this is played out over the last few weeks, what we understand, the al-qassam brigades have been training for perhaps five years for this attack. the political leadership was not actually aware of the attack from what i understand. even though it has been prepared for five years? even though it has been prepared for five ears? , ., , five years? exactly, from my understanding, _ five years? exactly, from my understanding, they - five years? exactly, from my understanding, they knew i five years? exactly, from my i understanding, they knew that five years? exactly, from my - understanding, they knew that it was one scenario being prepared, but the actual decision to move forward was taken by the military wing and the political leadership was only informed at the last minute. 50 political leadership was only informed at the last minute. so what is the impact — informed at the last minute. so what is the impact of _ informed at the last minute. so what is the impact of this _ informed at the last minute. so what is the impact of this conflict - informed at the last minute. so what is the impact of this conflict on - is the impact of this conflict on the future direction of hamas? that is a really good _ the future direction of hamas? tngt is a really good question and we need to acknowledge hamas has or is engaged in violence. however, at the same time, it is worth pointing out since the 1980s, hamas's leadership has slowly moderated its position and they have talked about political engagement implicitly at least, accepting israel's right to exist. there was a key moment in 2017 and here we have it, in which the movement accepted two—state solution as a national consensus formula. we have also seen hamas engage in elections, reconciliation, and this was the influence of the moderates in the movement making the argument for why political engagement would work. i think the moderates have lost the argument within the movement. and we have seen the hardliners and the military leadership now take over and move hamas into another direction. but can israel achieve its objective of totally destroying hamas? that can israel achieve its objective of totally destroying hamas? that is a reall bi totally destroying hamas? that is a really big question _ totally destroying hamas? that is a really big question and _ totally destroying hamas? that is a l really big question and undoubtedly, israel will have a fight on its hands and many members of the establishment in israel recognise that. hamas is dug in and prepared. for israel to succeed, thousands more palestinians will have to die unfortunately, such as the nature of urban warfare. but even if israel can vanquish hamas in gaza, hamas will continue to exist, hamas is not just gaza, it is in the west bank, lebanon, it is a political movement, a military movement and it will continue to exist regardless of what happens in gaza. continue to exist regardless of what happens in gaza-— continue to exist regardless of what happens in gaza. thank you very much indeed. over the last few months on this programme, we've been exploring thejudicial system in england and how those who go through the courts find it. as part of that, our next investigation reveals that some victims of sexual and violent crimes have been quoted what they call "unaffordable" sums of money for transcripts of crown court proceedings. several victims have told us that charging thousands of pounds for copies of court hearings is "exploitative". the government says victims can ask a judge to order a transcript at public expense, but cases are not routinely transcribed. sima has been looking into this by speaking to two women who've experienced some of the worst crimes imaginable. a warning — you may find some of the content in this report disturbing. gavel bangs 0pen justice is at the heart of british law. victims, defendants, witnesses — what they say in crown court is mostly in front of the public, reporters, a jury. but there is often a lot of information to take in, and some are advised not to attend the full hearing, while others are too traumatised. now, several people who've been through the courts have come together to call for cheaper transcripts of court proceedings so they can revisit what was said. the government says all victims can askjudges to order transcripts at the taxpayer's expense, but those we've spoken to say their requests were rejected, or they weren't told they could ask. so he drugged me, he recorded the video of himself raping me, and he actually played it back to me after waking me up and recorded that as well. and then used that as a form of blackmail. yes. he threatened to send the video to my 80—year—old father, who he never met. and that's when i reported him to the police. juliana had been with her partner for several months. after he raped her in 2020, he was convicted by a jury at a trial lasting ten days. it's been more than a year since the trial, and i still wish that i could revisit what was said during the trial to understand, to be part of my healing. like, i have a therapist and he said it would be very good if he could have access to the trial transcripts, for example, to understand what happened. she asked the court if she could have a transcript, but was told she didn't meet the criteria and had to approach one of the companies outsourced by the government to provide it. the emailsaid... "hmcts is unavailable to provide full transcripts free of charge. there are provisions in exceptional circumstances, ie murder or manslaughter cases where sentencing remarks can be applied for. i'm very sorry to inform you that these circumstances are not met in your application." documents seen by newsnight show the company quoted her almost £7,500 for a transcript to be provided to her in 12 working days — the cheapest option listed. i was just, "well, i can't afford this." i had to stop working. my mental health was a mess. there's no way i can afford this. why do i have to pay for a service that is data pertaining to me? according to the government website, hearings in crown courts, family courts and civil courts are always recorded. i understand that anybody can apply for a transcription by filling out the appropriate form or by asking the judge. it's then up to the court to decide whether any of it can be provided forfree. his majesty's courts and tribunal service, which falls under the control of the ministry ofjustice, has outsourced the transcription service to six companies in the uk. the government's guidance notes show that acolad uk ltd, which quoted juliana, charges 80p per 72 words if the transcription is to be completed in 12 working days. according to the guidance, that is the cheapest option. in a statement, acolad uk told us... "the pricing of each request is then determined based on parameters such as quality requirements, the level of urgency and above all, the length of the work to be performed, regardless of the subject matter or requester. in addition, the sensitivity of the matter at hand, as in all legal and court proceedings, determines that use of ai—assisted tools is limited and human expertise prioritised to preserve the integrity of the information, securing not only its confidentiality, but making sure it accurately depicts the recording." transcripts are very time—intensive in terms of making sure that there is an accurate record of what is being said by a number of people all talking at the same time. they also have to be checked for accuracy with various people involved in the trial. and, of course, there may be legal issues in terms of transcribing certain parts — if it relates to examples for legal arguments which may be heard in chambers, which isn't open to the public. so those are the sorts of things that make it time—intensive. of course, we appreciate they want... victims would like to see this, but at the moment, in the funding regime, there just isn't sadly enough, available funds for that at this stage. in 2020, claire's former partner tried to kill her while she was sleeping. i woke up to him trying to cut up my neck. ijust remember lunging up with my hands and trying to pull the knife away. and then i remember being stabbed in my abdomen, because my whole body retched up. and then ijust remember being punched across the room and waking up in hospital. her former partner pleaded guilty to attempted murder and was sentenced to 18 years in prison. claire wanted the judge's sentencing remarks. she says she was told to contact one of the companies and hadn't been informed that she could ask the court for a free copy, although it's not clear whether she would have got one. she says the company quoted her almost £300 — an amount, as she said, she simply couldn't afford. i thought maybe like between £25 and £50, i thought that they might ask for, just because it did say that you have to pay. but i didn't think it was going to be an astronomical cost. but i was just so shocked and i was like, i'm not working, i'm disabled, i've lost my home, like, how... i can't afford this and i really need this for my closure. she finally managed to get the transcript for free because somebody had already requested it and paid for the transcription work. the ministry ofjustice told us, "the government has quadrupled funding for victim support since 2010. however, as court proceedings are not routinely transcribed, if the request is declined, the fee covers the considerable costs that come with writing up the audio recording of potentially weeks' worth of hearings." no, i didn't feel safe... as forjuliana, she never got her transcript and says it stopped her from moving on with her life. what are you calling for? what would you like to see happen? i still believe that victims should have access to free transcripts. and i mean, it's an exorbitant amount, to be paid £7,000 for transcripts. it doesn't add up. how do you feel about the justice system and having a cost associated with that paperwork? some of the costs that i've heard are literally astronomical. and these people deserve the closure. even if, like myself, i was at the sentencing through video link, but i didn't hear it and i couldn't absorb it. i should be able to have that. i need it for my closure. victims should be entitled to it. i'm joined now by the london victims' commissioner, claire waxman. thank you forjoining us. as we have just heard from the crown prosecutors, it's incredibly time intensive. we need accuracy, the legal issues, some arguments held in chambers. this is simplyjust too expensive to the taxpayer? == chambers. this is simplyjust too expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simplv- — expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simplv- i — expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simply. i don't _ expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simply. i don't think— expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simply. i don't think it _ expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simply. i don't think it is. - expensive to the taxpayer? -- mikey said simply. i don't think it is. i- said simply. i don't think it is. i think the digital technology and ai there will be ways in which we can transcribe transcripts much more effectively than we currently do. i was speaking to partners in australia and they are able to do that at the moment, transcribe all hearings very quickly and at no extra cost. i think the government is very slow in trying to find solutions here. for over a decade we have been calling on government to make justice far have been calling on government to makejustice far more have been calling on government to make justice far more open and calling forfree make justice far more open and calling for free sentencing remarks and judges' summing calling for free sentencing remarks andjudges' summing up calling for free sentencing remarks and judges' summing up remarks for victims and families bereaved by homicide. the court minister has acknowledged this is an essential read for victims and really essential for understanding transparency, maintaining transparency, maintaining transparency and accountability of the justice system. so they have to see how they can make that accessible and affordable otherwise justice isn't open to victims. but presumably _ justice isn't open to victims. but presumably in — justice isn't open to victims. but presumably in the australian cases, is it online, is it redacted, how does it work? t is it online, is it redacted, how does it work?— does it work? i mean, that is something — does it work? i mean, that is something the _ does it work? i mean, that is something the government i does it work? i mean, that is| something the government to does it work? i mean, that is - something the government to explore and that's what i will be calling on government, obviously we are telling them what we need for victims and families in this country do we ask a lot of victims, we ask him to have trust and confidence to come forward and report, to help bring offenders to justice, and report, to help bring offenders tojustice, which keeps the public safe, but we have to start treating victims with more respect and give them the right to justice. they need to understand what's happened in the court process. many are not even part of the court process. they are treated as bystanders so they don't get that information or if they are part of it, due to the trauma it's really hard to process it, especially obviously the legal language, so it's really important for their closure, their ability to move on from the justice system where they can access these transcripts, especially the sentencing remarks and the summing up sentencing remarks and the summing up remarks about the don't see that justice has been done and why stop thank you very much. ——. the immigration minister, robertjenrick, today announced the government would cut the number of hotels it uses to house migrants by more than 50 in the next three months. the government credits a fall in the number of people crossing the channel in small boats, plans for migrant room—sharing, and the use of other sites — including disused military bases — as reasons for being able to reduce the reliance on hotels. but tonight, there are new questions for the home office, which is facing accusations it wasted millions of pounds buying an immigration detention site at more than double the price it was purchased for just a year before. joe's here. what are the details of this? the fi . ures what are the details of this? the figures are _ what are the details of this? tt2 figures are interesting. immigration accommodation remains very hot topic. this is about the site of a former prison in bexhill—on—sea, east sussex down the coast from dover, the government want to consider turning this into an immigration detention site for 1200 men. let's look at some of those figures. it was bought by developers in august 2022 for £6.31 million, but fast forward 13 months and it was sold to the government in september 2023 for £153 million. a big jump, september 2023 for £153 million. a bigjump, profit september 2023 for £153 million. a big jump, profit for the developers of £9 million, more than doubled in price. some campaigners in the local area, whom we should point out our post to the site are questioning thatis post to the site are questioning that is whether it is good use of taxpayers' money. i was told that there is no geographical orfiscal reason to buy what they call contaminated land, they argue that land that is already owned by the public like military bases should be used instead. the home office comment on the costs because they say it as a commercial matter but they say they are exploring the use of sites, assessing the feasibility, they want to minimise the impact of they want to minimise the impact of the local community and they are also committed to removing foreign criminals from the uk. but also committed to removing foreign criminals from the uk.— criminals from the uk. but the government — criminals from the uk. but the government has _ criminals from the uk. but the government hasjust _ criminals from the uk. but the government hasjust paid - criminals from the uk. but the i government hasjust paid double criminals from the uk. but the - government hasjust paid double what government has just paid double what it was worth last year. tt government hasjust paid double what it was worth last year.— it was worth last year. it has come a hue it was worth last year. it has come a huge amount- — it was worth last year. it has come a huge amount. but _ it was worth last year. it has come a huge amount. but i _ it was worth last year. it has come a huge amount. but i suppose - it was worth last year. it has come i a huge amount. but i suppose there will be some within government to want to contextualise this against the daily cost of housing asylum seekers in hotels, those figures have recently been around £8 million a day full of a lot of money, some would argue but i suppose the government might argue it is worth it if they can get the numbers down before the general election. thank ou ve before the general election. thank you very much- — let's return to the middle east conflict and how it's manifesting itself in the uk. according to the metropolitan police commissioner sir mark rowley, anti—semitic attacks have increased 13 times since the hamas attacks on october 7th, with a rise in attacks on muslims also up threefold. there are more than 280,000 jews living in the uk, with the majority in london. even before the attacks, manyjewish synagogues, schools and community centres had extra layers of security due to safety fears. there is now a heightened sense of anxiety and fear for many in the uk'sjewish community. the prime minister rishi sunak has called the rise "disgusting" and has given more money to combat anti—semitism. meanwhile, there are calls for the law around hate crime and extremism to be updated following controversy over chants of "jihad" at pro—palestinain protests in london over the weekend. here to discuss all this is rachel riley. she is one of the signatories of the decoration which was published yesterday condemning anti—semitism and expressing support for british jews. thank you very much for joining us. can you tell me how life or you feel is different after the october the 7th attacks by hamas? t will take you back to october the 7th, it was a saturday morning and woke up to the news is many people did have the horrific attacks in israel for service the day learning of what had happened, the death toll was rising, we learned of lynching at the peace festival were 260 young people were massacred, women were raped, we had videos of children being kidnapped, we knew mothers, holocaust survivors, children have been murdered, we had seen the body of a female being dragged through gaza on the back of a truck being spat at as the crowds cheered. against a backdrop when israel had neither contained the terrorists, when people are still being counted, the dead, i took my children swimming and acting in west london and on the way i passed two cars with all of the windows down, palestinian flags flying, jumping up and down and dancing like they were having a party. after i took my children and her ukrainian refugee guests and friends swimming, we had baklava and a coffee and a cafe and by seven o'clock outside the cafe, there was a party forming, there were people who have blocked the road with cars and motorbikes, with flags and music, there were dancing and clapping, they were rejoicing at the death ofjews. i was there with my one—year—old and mouth 3—0. —— and my three—year—old. one of her ukrainian guests watched crying his eyes and because he knew that people have been killed and there were people in london dancing. much as sit, mummy, i really like this music, because they understood it as a party. that is the backdrop of the anti—jewish hate we are facing. [10 anti-jewish hate we are facing. do ou anti—jewish hate we are facing. do you think that the october declaration in a way was a way to find solidarity, that's what is behind the declaration was made for people to come together and express these feelings? tt is people to come together and express these feelings?— these feelings? it is expressing discuss as _ these feelings? it is expressing discuss as well _ these feelings? it is expressing discuss as well at _ these feelings? it is expressing discuss as well at organisations like the bbc. we now know there was a pregnant

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