Transcripts For BBCNEWS Rucks 20240702

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but it comes at a time where the future of the professional game in england is unclear. the premiership rugby club worcester warriors have been suspended from all competitions after failing to meet a deadline set by the rugby football union to provide a plan for their future funding. worcester have debts of £25 million, including at least six million in unpaid tax. matt kvesic goes over the line. referee: i've got to check. for me as a reporter understanding what's happened hasn'tjust been a professionaljourney. it's also been a personal one. my husband, matt kvecic, was one of the worcester warriors players who lost his job. it was tough, like, it was there's so much uncertainty at the time, which i think was, um, that's probably the toughest bit, but almost the worst bit was like there was also hope at the time as well. rugby is a physical game. you don't want to be going into it with ifs and buts because that's when you get injured. did we deep down really think it was going to come through? probably, probably not with everything that was going on and the meetings we were having behind closed doors in, you know, and with the premier rugby and the rfu, they wouldn't fill you with confidence, let's put it politely. the product on the pitch in the premiership is brilliant. that was the thing last year, it was absolutely brilliant, but what was happening off it was a mess. it's very strange seeing the place all quiet and a little bit run down, to be honest. it's quite sad, but we'll take away some really good memories. graham kitchener enjoyed a long career in professional rugby, starting and finishing at worcester warriors, but it didn't end as he'd hoped. set myself in the last season in terms of could i get to 200 prem games? could i play 300 sort of senior games, club games? and, you know, it kind of sounds silly, but all those were kind of sort of taken from me. bad news, eh? the dream's over. tv: shellshocked players exchanging farewells this morning, just minutes after learning they and hundreds of staff had lost theirjobs. i'm devastated. i'm absolutely devastated. so i went to wasps probably a couple of weeks after worcester sort of went into liquidation. i think i'd only done a couple of days sort of training with them. and there was a meeting called in the afternoon and, like, the administrator and the owner came in and had a sort of chat with the lads and, you know, that was kind of basically it. the wasps former owner chris wright says the club has got a very bleak future now after going into administration. it's over and it's the life and the passion and tradition for so many people that has gone, including myself. they always used to say, "once a wasp, always a wasp." yeah, i would say even that day it was a shock for me. everyone was always positive about the name. it's a massive club with a massive history and it wasn't something we wanted, but i probably did expect us to...to... maybe sort of a new owner to come in at some point. with two clubs folding, the english premiership had been rocked twice. come the season finale at twickenham, the league thought it could look to the future but there was another shock to come. the latest deadline for london irish to prove that they have a future has passed with the prospect of them becoming the third premiership club within a year to be thrown out of the division. the challenging part is that we weren't all together when we were told. ultimately, it's a human story, isn't it? it's sadness, and a lot of people were hurt very badly by not being able to know where they were going to be. and at the end of it all, it was, you know, a pretty harrowing time, really. i think one of the major impacts has been covid. clubs in the premiership um, rely heavily on ticket sales. so the fact that the stadiums were empty, that revenue wasn't coming in. you've then got the, as i say, the hospitality side, the merchandise. 0n the back of covid there hasn't been that influx of people back in the stadiums in the same way. and i think one of the major issues for rugby, which is very different to football, is that the business model is on its head. so the premiership isn't the lucrative entity, it is the rfu, whereas in football the fa is the underdog if we can term it like that. this is rooted way back when rugby went professional. it was the wild west back in �*95, �*96 when the game went pro, but there was no infrastructure, there was no planning, and rugby has led a pretty much hand—to—mouth existence right through the professional game. and, of course, the season just gone by we've seen the culmination of problems that have been brewing. it was not a surprise that a rugby club was in danger. it was a surprise how quickly and how devastating the fall of the clubs was. in 2019, premiership rugby was on a high. ten clubs made a profit, helped largely by a £200 million investment from the american firm cvc capital partners. but when the covid pandemic hit the very next season, the financial effect was catastrophic. the premiership thought it would protect itself by gradually expanding from 12 to 14 teams. but by 2022, every club that had filed its accounts reported a loss, and for three clubs, the debts became too much. the latest accounts for worcester warriors were filed for the season ending in 2020 and showed they made a loss ofjust over £4 million that season. for wasps, the situation was increasingly more serious. for the season ending in 2021, they made a loss of {7.4 million with debts of 28.6 million. and london irish's predicament was similar. at the end of the season 2021, they made a loss of 3.4 million with debts of 28.3 million. in rugby terms, the situation had become unsustainable. i'm colin and this is my business partnerjason, and we're the owners of the warriors. injune 2019, colin goldring and businessmanjason whittingham took on ownership of worcester warriors. when the club collapsed last year, it owed hundreds of suppliers, businesses, banks and ticket holders millions of pounds. administrators have been carrying out detailed investigations into the club's finances. a scathing parliamentary inquiry criticised the rfu for not intervening in golding's ownership of worcester after he'd been barred by a solicitors' disciplinary tribunal from being employed at any law firm without the regulator's permission over significant financial irregularities at the legal practice which had employed him. they went on to say the game is in disarray at the top, suffering from inert leadership and the demise of the clubs was a stain on the reputation of the rfu and premiership by. rug i think you've got to look at owners and directors explicitly — were they fit to be in office? so i think rugby can learn a great lesson here in terms of it needs to strengthen its owners' and directors' test absolutely. it needs to make sure there's ongoing monitoring. there needs to be more transparency over accounts, the fact that worcester filed accounts late. colin goldring and jason whittingham declined to take part in this programme. they told the bbc any allegations that they did not act in the club's best interests were in complete ignorance of the facts and truth. the overriding feeling of the players was we were we were kind of hung out to dry a little bit. could the rfu and premier rugby have done a little bit more to kind of, you know, help us and maybe get us through the season? the way they came across to us as players was that they, they weren't as concerned as we felt they could have been. so i came in injanuary 2022, and at that stage the league was operating under the model where there was very little central financial information about clubs. there was no obligation of clubs to report. and so really what we were learning around compliances was either what they were choosing to give us. i think i would say that fit and proper tests are a moment in time and i think they need to be more regular. it's notjust a business here. this is a community asset. so this involves not only the livelihoods of the people that work there, but also has a big impact on those communities. so we've put in place financial monitoring panels. players and fans of the clubs involved have told us they were hung out to dry by the prl and rfu. do you think the prl could have done more? no, i think the situation was so severe, principally because of the circumstances the clubs were in after the pandemic, um, that there was very little that could have been done. and so i think, you know, with hindsight, what could have been put into place to control things a bit more was around financial control and monitoring and stuff that we're doing now. but the reality was it was so severe what had happened to these clubs during the pandemic that even with those types of measures, their fate was pretty much sealed. you know, i think in hindsight, you know, clubs should have perhaps considered more around just totally mothballing things. but it wasn't just the men's rugby union team at worcester that was affected. the warriors remained in the women's premiership, although things have been a struggle. it was just a massive, massive roller—coaster. and i don't think at any point with the women, i thought, like i ever wanted to accept that it was done. you know, at the time when all this was happening, we had 1a players at the world cup, and i didn't want to be in a position where i'd have to ring them up and say, "you haven't got a club to come home to." after securing new financial backing, worcester warriors women had been determined not to follow their male counterparts. the women's game have got the opportunity to learn still. we're still relatively new, so we've got an opportunity to learn from the men. so we have to be really smart with how we grow and are sustainable. so there is no point in having this massive increase in player salaries if we haven't got the money coming in. in worcester is sixways. it's a rugby ground, an asset where rugby can still be played. it's something wasps don't have with a history dating back more than 150 years and six times premiership champions wasps were also twice champions cup winners and parts of the european elite. the nomadic london club bought and moved to coventry�*s ricoh arena in 2014. it was a bold relocation, part, funded by selling investment bonds to supporters. it didn't pay off. there's you enjoying something tasty at the ricoh. it was almost like a bereavement. i wasn't expecting this. we'd been around wasps and supporting them in theirfamily for over 20 years, and then suddenly that was taken away. this was our weekend's activity as a family. the ricoh was seen by us as a good move. others didn't see it that way, particularly those that were wedded to london wasps, as it was, and had a proud heritage in that regard. for wasps, they had a big plan and it kind of looked as though it was going to work. and i would imagine the pandemic had a massive impact. their revenue streams just dried up. we were first introduced in an advisory capacity by the board who'd been looking to refinance because the fundamental problem they had, they had a huge debt pile. they had a debt pile of more than 100 million in the group, and they had the retail bondholders who were in for 36 million. they were trying to get a refinance. and despite all their best efforts, it didn't come to fruition. so in the end, they just ran out of cash. i think the move to the ricoh did contribute to, i would say, the demise of wasps. but i think it goes back earlier. when wasps were at adams park they did try to seek secondary rugby income by building a new stadium there. so there was a lot of investment and time put into that adventure, which unfortunately failed at the last hurdle. so i think there's always a balance with rugby clubs between being a rugby business and then also the non—rugby income, which is important. what do you think were the main reasons for the collapse? oh, i don't know. the bond was obviously a massive issue in terms of terms of wasps. the club took a massive gamble, didn't they, and coming up to the midlands from london. everything with covid definitely did not help the situation at all. and is it funny, after a couple of years, people get loans and everything to get themselves through covid, that a couple of years later there's three clubs go within one year. so i think that's got a lot to do with it. i think we did really well as a sport actually in the time when you think about it. we're seeing the problem of trying to force a club to exist, force a name, force a location, force a fan base. rugby's organic, rugby grows and rugby knows where it belongs. it knows where the club lives and where it exists. you try and force it you've got to work bloody hard to make it work. london irish had a proud history in south—west london, but like wasps, they became nomadic first sharing reading's madejski stadium before moving in with brentford football club in 2020. london irish club needs a home, you've got to have a home. they thought brentford would be the answer and it wasn't the answer. big fees, big salaries were spent to keep them competitive. they couldn't generate their home there, so they went searching for it and it didn't work — owner mick crossan had been bailing out london irish for a decade. when his attempts to sell the club to a us consortium failed, the club folded. i don't know if we will all move on completely. it's a weird feeling to know that you look back in the following season, your team doesn't exist any more. that's a really hard thing to put into place. during the covid pandemic, the uk government gave emergency loans to england's premiership clubs to keep them afloat. it loaded millions of pounds of debts onto the clubs, debts they have to pay back. do you think that was the right thing to do? because was it notjust delaying the inevitable? no, because they would have thought, "well, these are clubs that are in a competitive league, they've got tv rights, they've got money from cvc. rugby is a popular sport. the six nations generates huge interest." so clubs are stressed without a doubt, but they needed that money. they had to have it, or the game would have collapsed. i don't think we would have a premiership if those loans hadn't been put in place. it's an incredible pressure because they're not insignificant amounts and i think the clubs didn't have any choice at the time. without them, as i say, all clubs would have gone bust, but i think they quite quickly became a burden because then there is the further burden of having to repay those loans which are taxpayers' money. we are looking to manage those things and so, you know, i see a positive outcome with all that. i think there was a stat, something like 90% of wasps fans aren't watching rugby any more. from a sport that we need to create, we need to get more and more supporters in we've potentially lost people. rugby needs to realise it's not as big as it thinks it is. it's going for global domination, but i think it's overreached itself. but at the moment, it's this mess no—one knows. seasons are uncontrolled. you pay your ticket, you don't see your star players. it's a mess. it needs to be tightened up. i mean, that's one of the things we are tidying up. so we want our international players to be available much more for clubs and clearly they're not if you've got a calendar that's overlapping. so that's one of the benefits of having a ten—team league. and so you can now say to fans that when you when you come and watch, the england stars will be there. we also need to balance that with having regional representation across the country. and so, you know, what exists in the premiership is a tempting premiership. but this is why we want to align ourselves much more with the championship. we need to bridge that gap, we need to make it smaller. but i firmly believe we need a national footprint of elite clubs. there's a whole stabilisation plan which, you know, really is a sort of four to five—year period where we're trying to get funding certainty. some of that is our partnership with the rfu and how the professional game is managed and how we become much closer and deal with things much more as a sort of one entity approach rather than as two sort of sides of a coin. funds have been lost to the game and the league can't afford that. what do you make of that? i think the sort of message to wasps and worcester fans is please stay loyal to your club and let us work on a system where we can get them back to topflight as soon as possible. i really want them to be part of the championship as soon as possible because they're such great brands and they're so important to the fabric of rugby in this country. and i think that's now part of the mission, is to is to try and resuscitate those brands and make them what they were again. in 1999, both richmond and london scottish boomed briefly and then went bust. clubs, including london welsh, have had to start again. none has made it back to top flight. so should premiership clubs be treated differently? yeah, i think that's a really important point. that's what needs to balance. it's the aspiration of clubs and it's also that the system that exists, rightly or wrongly, around promotion, relegation and what happens when clubs go into insolvency. so that is a very difficult debate to have. i think the huge success that women's sport is having across all sports, but particularly the lionesses, isjust going to see non—international rugby union club rugby union, go further down, i think, and i'm not so sure that those revenues will be there from television companies. i sort of feel that the spend is more likely to be towards women's sport. of course, there's other interest in other competing interests and so that's where we need to focus with growth. and really, we're trying to focus on the younger demographic and also families much more. as a rugby fan, an avid rugby fan, i'd like to see more collaboration between the premiership and the rfu, but it's got to be meaningful and transparent. if we're not careful i think as a sport you're going to see more players moving off to france. the consequences of england's professional clubs struggling has a ripple effect beyond borders. here in france, the salary cap, which is the amount professional clubs can pay players, is greater than that of the premiership. it means many of the premiership star players are moving abroad. henry arundell, jack willis and david ribbans are all england world cup players who've already moved to the top 1a in france with more set to follow. there were bigger markets there. so the gap between football and...and rugby is smaller and more equal than it is clearly here. so it's a bigger market and probably more dominant. the rfu announced they'd be looking to create hybrid contracts for around 25 players in a move to stem the flow of those leaving. players generally have a short playing career, so they need to make as much money as they possibly can and also develop prospects for career transition. if you look at the scenes - in france, it's pretty special. there's a lot of people over| here jealous of what they're doing with the game over there. just off the french coast, though, lies jersey, a rising club. last season's championship winners and with big ambitions. that was until this season. faced with uncertainty over central funding, a potential investor pulled out and the club ceased trading. a fourth club to go bust in 12 months. i had no prior knowledge whatsoever, and that is a real kick in the teeth. the abruptness and lack of warning has meant that 70 people with families and children are now left in the dark, unemployed, potentially having to leave the island pretty quickly. and for children in school and things like that, and jobs and livelihoods and rents and mortgages, it's...it�*s unbelievable that's been allowed to happen as abruptly. jersey reds said their accounts have been consistently and openly shared with the government ofjersey, but the state's assembly voted against using public funds to help the professional sports team when its assets were extremely unclear. in a statement, the rugby football union said they had launched a hardship fund for players and staff in need of financial support. they added... what do you expect from the next season? will all of these clubs survive and get through? i don't know. i hope so. i really hope so. i do not want to see any other clubs go to the wall. and i want this now to be the catalyst for a more collaborative league, leagues. i'd like to see it extend further down than just the premier league premiership. and rugby has to put in place strict financial structures to make sure this doesn't happen again. i guess the ideal is you want...you want settled teams with the ability to bring those young english players through, with also giving clubs the ability to sign one or two really good, maybe perhaps overseas players or, you know, quality internationals who are going to...going to help those young players. that's the...that's the ideal. it's a special club. there's a big history about them. within the last couple of decades, they've won premiership title, they've won european, it doesn't get any bigger at club level than that. it's interesting when people say to me, "so who are you going to support now?" and i go, "i don't really want to support anybody. i'm still with...with wasps." so, you know, i think a lot of supporters like me, who are desperate to see them back and being successful again, and i think it will happen. london irish still exists - as an amateur club and there's a thriving amateur game there. and a...and a lot of kids turn up every saturday, i sunday up at hazelwood to play there, to do what _ they love as kids. so that still lives. and when something like that still lives, . maybe there's hope. they were a good team and now it's just annoying that we can't watch them. i'm going to probably support harlequins because my... i know someone that plays for harlequins in the girls team. i'll probably - support harlequins. yeah. why quins? because, like, i heard that also they also play good. i i do live quite close to harlequins, so my dad said i should support harlequins, but i don't want to. you know, it's called grassroots for a reason. clubs are like plants. they need healthy roots to survive. club owners may come and go, club fortunes may rise and fall, but keep the roots healthy, and you'll keep the club alive. keep the roots healthy and you'll guarantee the future of the sport. all: come on, london irish men, whoo! - hello, there. we've started this week off on a fine note, but things are turning more unsettled now for tuesday onwards, and by the end of the week, it'll be turning windier with plenty of blustery showers. so, rain at times over the next few days, but there will be some drier, brighter, sunnier moments at times. the pressure chart for tuesday is pretty complicated. we've got a mess of weather fronts across the country, so generally cloudy, i think, today with variable amounts of rain. i think most of the rain, persistent at times, will be across northern and eastern england — areas that really don't need any more rainfall, so we have a met office yellow warning in here in force for tuesday up until around apm. elsewhere, there will be some sunshine around, best of it, scotland, maybe southern england, but even here there'll be a few showers as well. temperatures 10—15 degrees and winds will remain light and variable for many. now, as we head through tuesday night, that area of low pressure starts to push back in towards the northeast and we could see some rain for eastern scotland, northeast england — again, areas that don't need the rain. another pulse of rain running across southern britain thanks to another area of low pressure. but in between, drier spells with clear skies, variable cloud, but a milder night to come — temperatures 5—8 degrees. for wednesday, again, we're in between weather systems. with light winds, we'll start off with some rain perhaps across the southeast. it could linger here through the day, and that weather front across the northeast will still push some cloud and rain in towards eastern scotland, maybe northeast england — again, areas that really don't need any more rainfall. but elsewhere, from northern ireland, down through much of england, wales, we should see some sunshine around. the highs of 1a or 15 degrees, but then it starts to turn wetter and windier in the southwest later in the day, and that's because this much larger area of low pressure will dominate the weather scene for thursday and friday and even into the weekend, bringing plenty of showers and strong winds, particularly towards the south and the west. so, the winds picking up across western areas through thursday. band of rain spreads northwards again bringing rainfall to areas that don't need it. but for much of the country, northern ireland, the rest of england, wales, sunny spells, scattered showers. some of these will be heavy and thundery in places, particularly towards the southwest. temperatures reaching 15 degrees. if we factor in the wind, might not feel that mild. similar story on friday and into the weekend — low pressure sticks nearby with further showers or even longer spells of rain. take care. this is bbc news. hamas releases two elderly hostages but hundreds more remain in custody, including the husbands of the released women. israel's bombardment of gaza shows no sign of letting up. we report on the ground. mourning those killed by hamas, the teenage daughter of a man still in captivity. we begin with the release of two more hostages by hamas. this is their arrival at hospital in tel aviv after they were handed over to the israeli military. soldiers carried their women into the medical facility on stretchers. they are nurit cooper and yocheved lifshitz, who were taken hostage just over two weeks ago. this is the moment they were transferred to ambulances at the rafah border crossing with egypt. yocheved lifshitz�*s daughter confirmed her release. she said, while i cannot put into words the relief that she is now safe, i will remain focused on securing the release of my father and the 200 hostages in gaza. their release brings the total number of hostages freed by hamas to four, but israel says more than 200 hostages are still being held. released by hamas after more than two weeks in captivity, yocheved lifshitz and nurit cooper were taken out of gaza into egypt. freed on health grounds, hamas said — no longer

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