Assessing the first week of the israel gaza conflict. Hello. Imjackie leonard, the host of the Global News Podcast. Today, weve teamed up with a new bbc podcast, the conflict, for a special programme, answering your questions about whats going on in israel and gaza. Werejoined by the host of the conflict, the bbc� s chief International Correspondent lyse doucet, who is in ashdod in israel, north of gaza, and also by our International Editor jeremy bowen, whos injerusalem. So welcome, lyse. A relatively easy question to kick off with. Can you give us a sense of the size and location of gaza in relation to israel . Who lives there . Whos in charge . And who are its neighbours . Well, thats a sort of a wikipedia of the gaza strip. The gaza strip is a coastal strip of land on the mediterranean. Once on one side, its on the mediterranean. The other side, the southern side, its connecting to egypt. And then its other neighbour is israel. It is described as one of the most densely populated places on earth. Some 2. 3 million palestinians live there and they live with great frustration because they feel they dont really have control over their lives. Even though israel pulled out its troops in 2005, it controls the airspace. It controls the sea. It also controls all of the land crossings into gaza, it also controls all of the land crossings into gaza, except the one which goes to egypt, which is called the rafah crossing. Weve tried to use various measures to say how big it is for british viewers. Its about as big as the Isle Of Wight. For people who live in north america, its about the size of washington, dc. And i think im right, jeremy, you might correct me, i think its about 140 square miles. Something like that. Im not sure exactly. I always go with the Isle Of Wight definition. Ok, so that was the geography part to the more complicated part. Now, what is behind this conflict . Lets hear from a listener, sidney from albany, new york. How did that impact local people | in what was formerly palestine . | why did the following wars break out . And what is life for people under occupation in the west bank like . Sojeremy, the problem here is how far back do we go . Can you attempt a potted history for us . The first part of the question, where did the conflict start . Well, i suppose you have to go back to the Zionist Movement in europe, where in 1897 they had a congress and they decided, among other things, that they would push to get a jewish state within 50 years. In fact, they got one in 51 years in 1948. And there was even by 1897, there was a Settlement Byjews who were known as zionists. Its a jewish nationalism, if you like. It was a period of nationalism in europe. The czechs wanted a homeland. You know, the the hungarians wanted independence. And jews were thinking, well, lets get a nation state as well. And they decided they wanted to have one here in palestine. But there was a famous historian, avi shlaim found this great quote. Some rabbis who came out here after that first zionist conference looked. They telegrammed back, they telegraphed back to back to europe and said because they were there to survey the territory and they said, the bride is beautiful, but shes already married. In other words, there were people here. One of the old sayings about israel was it was a land without a people for a people without a land. But that wasnt true because there were palestinian arabs here. And the fact that when the zionists were coming in, there were to start with, there was a bit of cooperation, but increasingly there was conflict. And i think asking where this conflict came from, i think it started off with two peoples having very strong claims to the land in their own minds and not being able to agree how to split it and how to share it. And i think asking where this conflict came from, i think it started off with two peoples having very strong claims to the land in their own minds and not being able to agree how to split it and how to share it. Now, the british were in charge here between the world wars. Effectively. They left in 1948 and they did have a plan to try to split the land into two states. But it was one which the arabs particularly would not accept. They wanted everything. I think that the jews at that time had more of a subtle approach and why they werent getting what they wanted, they thought, well take a bet and maybe well have something extra. So 1948, israels war of independence, they won a massive victory. All their arab neighbours tried to invade it and try to strangle the state at birth. Didnt succeed. But since then, it has had a very troubled history. And one of the questions was about religious differences. Well, you know, in the time that ive been here as a journalist and ive been reporting from here and i lived here, too, for, well, more. Reporting from here for more than 30 years. The conflict has got more religious. I used to feel it was when it was groups of basically guys in suits in a room, maybe they had a chance of trying to sort it out. But now there are people on both sides who believe they are doing the will of god. And those people were always existed, but now theyre in really powerful positions. So thats pretty difficult. If you think youre doing the will of god, youre not going to make a deal about it, are you . Well, the latest stage in the crisis started with the unprecedented attacks on israel by hamas, which seemed to come as a complete surprise. Well talk about the why now shortly. But first, lets have another one of your questions. This is katie. I live in new york. I want to know what life i was or is like in palestine. And is it those harsh conditions that led to this Breaking Point . I or did hamas just do this because they want to eradicate jewish people from the earth i and theyre just using this claim of oppression as an excuse to killjewish people . So, lyse, would you like to take this one . Well, illjust pick up On Whatjeremy said, is that the longer this conflict goes on, it does acquire more and more of a religious dimension. But its muslims against thejews and the jewish people feel very profoundly threatened by the attacks that hamas carried out on saturday, it has gone right round the world injewish communities. But i think predominantly, this is an issue about, yes, the very difficult, evermore difficult, impoverished conditions in gaza, the conditions in the occupied west bank, the fact that israel continues to exercise control over peoples lives, the fact that the hopes of the palestinians for a state of their own seems to recede further and further in the distance. So much so that those who have long hoped for a two State Solution, as it calls, a palestinian state and The State Of Israel side by side, have now begun to believe that the only way forward because simply, in terms of having contiguous land, that its not possible, it will have to be a one State Solution just because one of the most controversial issues of all. Sorry, just to interrupt you there at least we were hearing some sirens there and it sounded like some explosions. Can you tell us whats going on . Well, thats the thud of artillery. Were very close to the gaza border, so thats outgoing. In the night, theres a lot of intense aerial bombardment that goes on around the clock for gazans. It is in the distance, im afraid. It is in the distance. Im afraid t is a sound that we hear all day, even here in southern israel. Artillery going out, drones in the sky. Helicopter gunships, we hear the thud of of some of that bombardment in gaza. We only see the, for the most part, hear the sound. And right here, we cant hear, see whats happening on the ground. And its a frightening moment. It is frightening. Are you 0k to continue . You are ok. 0k. Thats great. Not frightening for us, for the people under them. For the people under them. So i was saying that its. One of the most controversial issues between the israelis and palestinians is the continuing. The expansion ofjewish settlements. And in the past many months, with Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in power and now governing with the most right wing government in israels history, it is very pro settler and theres been for most of this year, more and more clashes. The siren is going off, but i think were fine. We can continue. And i think maybe its good for our listeners to know that this is the reality of life. Theres been a lot of clashes between the settlers and palestinians in the west bank, so much so that it was regarded as israels more focused on the west bank than they were on gaza. But there are many reasons for this and they are very profound. Theyre very emotional. Theyre historical and very personal and political. Right. Lets have another clip from one of our listeners. Given the israeli response to the hamas attack seemingly resulting in collective punishment towards the palestinians, im curious as to what the average palestinian civilian sentiment is towards hamas. Is this an organisation that is largely supported . And that ones for you, jeremy. Well, there havent been any polls in the last week, because i think that for a lot of palestinians and ones ive spoken to in the last week, there has been horror and incredulity about what has been happening, about the numbers of people that were killed. I think people had no idea that this was coming. So theres that. Now, before all this happened, hamas when the hamas took over in gaza in 2007, quite violently, they kicked out the other faction, fatah. They were daggers drawn, literally, in some cases. They had won an election the previous year. There were daggers drawn, literally, in some cases. They had won an election the previous year. So they were popular then. And a lot of that was a protest vote against the ineptitude and the corruption of the other palestinian main group, fatah, and the fact that they hadnt delivered their objective of a palestinian state. And to start with, some people thought hamas were. Palestinians, i mean,. Were quite a breath of fresh air. But things have changed, became more authoritarian. And theyre not they havent been so popular in gaza and also here in the west bank. Yes, of course, they have their followers, some very, very dedicated followers, often people who are religious. But its, you know, you cannot say that the Palestinian National movement, those people who want to have their own state, which is virtually every palestinian ive ever met, that they are, you know, co extensive with hamas because thats not the case. Far from it. And so, you know, hamas were not a ragingly Popular Group and i dont think this is necessarily going to make them any more popular. But what will happen, because what is already happening because of the number of deaths of palestinian civilians, particularly, is there will be a feeling that palestinians and others in the arab world weve seen a lot of demonstrations today, will be angry about what was happening and angry at israel because of the way that they are attacking gaza. Well, turning to current israeli politics now, lets get a bit more context. Chris hockman from texas, i but originally from australia. How much of a factor is the settlements in this situation . How has this changed israeli policy, given that to get support from the right, netanyahu had shifted to a more anti palestinian policy . Whats irans role in all of this . Please take that one. Well, ive mentioned as one of the one of the primary reasons for the increasing anger of palestinians, including hamas, against israel, is the rise and rise expansion ofjewish settlements. Jewish settlements was one of the issues that was postponed in the Oslo Peace Accords of 30 years ago. And many now realise that was a huge mistake. They thought they would be able to deal with it. Israel has given back some of the control of the occupied west bank, but there are large swathes which are under israeli control and the settlements continue to expand. And also the Israeli Settlers now feel emboldened by the right wing government, which has many pro settler politicians inside Prime Minister netanyahus cabinet, at least the cabinet he had before he formed the war cabinet. So, yes, it is a major issue. On iran, this has been asked many times. Iran is one of the main backers of hamas and islamichhad. It both helps to arm and finance both groups. But in this particular crisis, the United States and israel have both said that there is no intelligence to suggest that iran was part of the planning and the execution of this assault by hamas. Its very difficult, isnt it, to be accurate, to be sure that the information that you are receiving is true . Weve had some questions about how we verify information. Hello, bbc, this is zoe in chicago. Im wondering how News Organisations and governments develop counts of those killed and injuredl so quickly within often just a matter of hours or a day or two. So, jeremy, how do you do that . Well, in terms of the numbers of people whove been killed or wounded, i think sometimes it is an approximation and it still is at the moment, in terms of those who were killed in that hamas attack, because frankly theyre still finding bodies they dont really know. Today in israel, there was a Photo Opportunity arranged by the israeli army and they took journalists to a series of refrigerated containers, shipping containers, which are overflow morgues. And in there, there are dozens of bodies and body bags which are awaiting identification. And i was only a couple of days ago at one of those kibbutzes that were overwhelmed by hamas, and they were still finding bodies. So thats a bit of an approximation. In terms of other things, like, for example, how many people have been killed in the west bank in violence between settlers, the israeli army, armed palestinians, we keep a Running Total and so do other organisations, which we add to as necessary. So, yeah, we do know. I mean, for example, on our Office Whatsapp today, i was writing a script to do with whats been happening around here and some of the political developments, and there were some confrontations between the israeli army and palestinian demonstrators in the west bank, and by 4 00 this afternoon, we saw that 11, the figure was that 11 palestinians had been killed. Now, that came from whats considered to be a fairly accurate source, which is the Palestinian Health ministry. But, you know, we would be also double checking it against other accounts. And we keep, as i say, our own Running Totals for things. In terms of verifying things like those videos you see. I mean, one thing thats really changed reporting and since the advent of the smartphone and the internet is the fact that so much video is around that we see so much that we even, what, 15 years ago we would never, ever have seen and which has a a direct political impact as well, which we can talk about on another occasion. But those videos, we have a great Big Department at the bbc and so do other News Organisations where we try and work out where they came from. There are various ways of using open source intelligence, geolocation, sometimes bringing in people who come from that town or that country. And were an international organisation, the bbc, so we can do that, who say, you know, is that really the main high street of homs in syria . So we try and prove things, we dont just stick them out there. And we hear a lot aboutjust how intractable a conflict this is and, of course, our listeners have questions about how to resolve it. First, there was this suggestion about a short term solution. Hi, this is sam oppenheim, a new York City Public School teacher. And my question is, would israel | consider a humanitarian corridor| and a temporary ceasefire that could allow women and children out of gaza, for example, into egypt or an army camp or all the way to the west bank . I understand that the Israeli Military is looking for a Military Solution but in all the interviews that youve posted on the bbc podcast, they claim to value civilian lives of Innocent Non Hamas actors, i so could israel put weightl behind those statements . Lyse. Israel is under huge pressure now, most of all pressure from its own people after these atrocities committed by hamas. There is deep, deep anger and fear in this society and a very strong feeling of the need to retaliate, to use their phrase, to crush hamas. But there is also pressure on israel from its closest of allies, including the United States, to make. How they respond, to use the phrase use by the us, how you respond matters as well, that there are rules of even in war. And one of the most important rules is not targeting civilians. That is a war crime. And so israel seems to be listening to that. Theres also discussions with egypt about trying to keep that crossing open. But egypt has its own concerns. It doesnt want a huge influx of palestinians onto its territory. And the rafah crossing, it cant move people quickly enough through it. Israel does not want to be delayed. Its not in a mood to compromise in any way. The clock for its Military Operations matters more than the clock on the time it would take to open a humanitarian corridor, theres not even a window, much less a corridor now. And i think well see in the days to come how many how far theyre willing to heed these expressions of concern which grow ever louder about the price that civilians will pay for israels Military Operations, which, of course, israel has a lot of support for that from its allies, too. On the subject, the question are asked about maybe women and children going to egypt or a camp or west bank or Something Like that. The israeli instruction for people to go south has raised a lot of ghosts of the past. A lot of the people in gaza are descendants of peo