Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20240703

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the white specks in this blue image. in fact, it is the most carbon ever seen in extraterrestrial material. nasa travelled billions of miles to grab the sample, packing it into a capsule. it landed in the utah desert just over two weeks ago. bennu can tell us about the very beginnings of our solar system. about li.5 billion years ago all that existed was a swirling cloud of gas and dust. asteroids formed as this material clumped together. some grew bigger, into the planets of our solar system. some asteroids, though, were left over, like bennu, in israel, they've formed a new coalition government as the country prepares itself for an intensification of the war. does the israeli prime minister have the political credibility to hold it together? nothing that this prime minister says is sincere, but it doesn't matter anymore. this prime minister, in my opinion, has found himself in the lowest point injewish history of modernity, and therefore his legacy is tarnished forever. we'll bejoined by the israeli ambassador to the uk. the israeli air force did this to the islamic university of gaza, saying it's a hamas training facility. the academics there say "no" — it's just indiscriminate bombing. every single piece in gaza is a target. civilian or not civilian. on the ground, under the ground. buildings, everything. i'll be asking our former uniited nations permanent representative how this war will play out. also tonight the labour leader says he's a yimby, not a nimby. are you going to do something to that local opposition - that isn't done now? are you basically going to say, we hear you but i'm afraid - we are ignoring you? _ yes, we're going to have to do that. how will that work? labour's shadow attorney general emily thornberryjoins us live. good evening from jerusalem. israel's war with hamas — who are designated as a terror oganisation by many western goverments — including the uk — is intensifying. the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, today announced the formation of a national unity government, a move widely seen here as a preparation for a stepping up of the war, including ground operations in gaza that could involve heavy casualties. there are fears too of a possible second front with hezbollah on the lebanese border. as for gaza, israel has cut the electricity and water supply off, amid increasingly dire reports about conditions on the ground. emir has been piecing together today's developments there. here, the unforgiving reality of war continues to be laid bare, neighbourhoods that once flourished, now flattened. as the crackle of missiles continues to tear the sky. israeli air strikes have claimed some 1100 lives since it began its retaliation following the hamas attack. the tragic parallel in israel where the latest count puts their losses at 1200. numbers rising by the hour. this is the islamic university of gaza established in the 70s and the first higher education centre in the city, and releasing these photos today, the israeli army claimed it had been turned into a training camp for hamas. now, rubble. it turned into a training camp for hamas. now, rubble.- turned into a training camp for hamas. now, rubble. it has been a horrible day. _ hamas. now, rubble. it has been a horrible day, with _ hamas. now, rubble. it has been a horrible day, with so _ hamas. now, rubble. it has been a horrible day, with so many - hamas. now, rubble. it has been aj horrible day, with so many attacks, basically on gaza, with war planes and shelling, bombardment. regardless of the location. i can say every single piece in gaza is a target, civilian or not civilian, on the ground, under the ground, buildings, everything. but the ground, under the ground, buildings, everything.- buildings, everything. but the israeli army — buildings, everything. but the israeli army does _ buildings, everything. but the israeli army does not - buildings, everything. but the. israeli army does not recognise buildings, everything. but the - israeli army does not recognise this and they say the civilian buildings they target have become militant bases. food, water and electricity has been in short supply in gaza for years but as israel implements a siege on the community, the humanitarian situation is looking increasingly desperate. the sole power plant ran out of fuel this afternoon. private generators are powering hospitals have only hours left to make days at best. like schools, medical centres have become improvised shelters as people have nowhere else to turn. 0thers try to rescue those trapped in the rubble. and somewhere within this beautiful landscape, 150 israeli hostages. morn landscape, 150 israeli hostages. now there are some _ landscape, 150 israeli hostages. firm" there are some areas landscape, 150 israeli hostages. time" there are some areas which have run completely out of water because the infrastructure has gone. some areas infrastructure has gone. some areas in gaza city, there is no infrastructure, so it does not matter if we have a power supply or not. �* ., ., ., , ., , not. around 2 million palestinians call gaza home, _ not. around 2 million palestinians call gaza home, packed _ not. around 2 million palestinians call gaza home, packed into - not. around 2 million palestinians call gaza home, packed into an i not. around 2 million palestinians i call gaza home, packed into an area smaller than the isle of wight, and alongside the desk in the last two hours, others have fled their home —— and alongside the deaths in the last few hours. -- and alongside the deaths in the last few hours.— -- and alongside the deaths in the last few hours. there is no food and without that — last few hours. there is no food and without that it — last few hours. there is no food and without that it would _ last few hours. there is no food and without that it would be _ last few hours. there is no food and without that it would be a _ without that it would be a humanitarian disaster of a large scale. without a safe corridor. all governments have got to push for that. otherwise, there will be a big disaster and even the management of the aftermath of that will be a huge thing. the aftermath of that will be a huge thin. , . �* , the aftermath of that will be a huge thint. ,., �*, ., the aftermath of that will be a huge thing. israel's air strikes have hit the only crossing _ thing. israel's air strikes have hit the only crossing out _ thing. israel's air strikes have hit the only crossing out of- thing. israel's air strikes have hit the only crossing out of gaza - thing. israel's air strikes have hit| the only crossing out of gaza into egypt. the people of gaza will be hoping that international organisations will protect it, so precious food and fuel can find its way in between the rubble. well, people in this country believe the misery in gaza is only just getting underway. even the presence of more than 100 israeli hostages there does not seem to be having a restraining effect. sitting side by side with his new coalition partners this evening, prime minister benjamin neta nyahu tonight vowed, "every hamas terrorist will die" and that he would crush the organisation. and indeed that coalition is a mark of how far this crisis is causing deep national divisions to be silenced — for now at least. israeli air force videos chart the relentless bombing of gaza, a soundless spectacle of dust and destruction. it's what the israeli public, inflamed by hamas's massacres, expect to see, and it's onlyjust beginning. images of what happened in the border communities are still emerging and continuing to shock. many may blame benjamin netanyahu for allowing this to happen, but now he's the leader israelis have to unite around in a coalition government, however much that pains his critics. nothing that this prime minister says is sincere, but it doesn't matter anymore. this prime minister, in my opinion, has found himself in the lowest point injewish history of modernity, and therefore his legacy is tarnished forever. now the question is, how much it can be saved and who will save it? this eclectic group of buildings in tel aviv, the defence ministry, is where the war is run and the country being governed from at the moment. outside, a solitary protester holding a placard that says "resign." those who might think the same are largely silent as the country tries to find a path to some kind of victory. prime minister netanyahu wants a national unity government now. he needs it in order to spread the political responsibility for what's about to happen — israeli action which could cost large numbers of lives. having mobilised 360,000 army reserves, israel now stands ready for a ground assault on gaza and the possibility of a war on two fronts with hezbollah to the north. that's led many opposition figures to forget deep differences and welcome today's coalition news. translation: a national unity government is a message - to the whole world and mainly to the enemies of israel — we are united. we stand shoulder to shoulder. there is no difference between the coalition and the opposition. everybody is focused on one thing — the war against terrorism. hamas is no different than isis. the british foreign secretary, today visiting a border community, got a taste of what happens during rocket attacks. siren wails. he was here to offer support, not least because, for now, israel's western partners know that any talk of ceasefires or peace processes will fall on deaf ears. i came directly here to show solidarity to you and the people of israel, to discuss with you how we can regain peace and security for your country. israel is no longer listening to this language. it's dead. no one will be able to impose a new language to this conflict. and let me make it clear, it's not that we have politicians or the military saying, "we are not going to go "back to what has been." no one will allow them to go back. the army and the forces and the legacy of zionism is dependent. "it's either them or us." this is the moment of reckoning. thank you. we'll have a chance to talk later. thank you. america's secretary of state left washington tonight, also israel bound. the us is doing its best to deter hezbollah from joining this war, not least by a naval build up. just as israel today created its domestic political coalition, now it seeks one with its allies internationally. israel's ambassador to the uk, tzipi hotovely, joins me now. she is here today because she was accompanying the uk foreign secretary james cleverly to the visit to the south of the country. did you get the impression that uk banks israel and what it is doing? —— backs. banks israel and what it is doing? -- backs. ., , ., -- backs. you can see that with number 10 _ -- backs. you can see that with number 10 downing _ -- backs. you can see that with number 10 downing street - -- backs. you can see that with - number 10 downing street protecting the israeli flag and parliament in blue and white. whitehall was having israeli flags on the roof and you can see that with the statements, from both the prime minister and the foreign secretary about the israeli right to self—defence, and israel is fighting a justifiable war barbarism and terrorism and i want to make sure this is not anything but terrorism. we need to call it the way it is. this is a cruel terrorism that killed brutally and murdered 1200 israelis and over 100 have been kidnapped and they are still in gaza and we need to release them. the uk government — and we need to release them. the uk government designates _ and we need to release them. the uk government designates hamas - and we need to release them. the uk government designates hamas is - and we need to release them. the uk government designates hamas is a i government designates hamas is a terrorist organisation and the issue is not really about a definition in this moment but it is about what is most likely to guarantee future israeli security, so is it not the case that if you cause immense suffering in gaza you will breed new militancy? it suffering in gaza you will breed new militan ? , . ., militancy? it is so clear when children are _ militancy? it is so clear when children are brutally - militancy? it is so clear when| children are brutally executed militancy? it is so clear when i children are brutally executed in front of their parents, just yesterday we exposed and it was published by the bbc, that a0 bodies of babies, their heads were cut off. the bbc said it saw no evidence of that. ~ . , the bbc said it saw no evidence of that. ~ ., , , ., that. we have seen the bodies of those babies _ that. we have seen the bodies of those babies and _ that. we have seen the bodies of those babies and children - that. we have seen the bodies of those babies and children and i those babies and children and actually this is evidence—based. we know those terrorist, barbaric terrorist, they killed young children and we know how many children and we know how many children were killed. this is why every country should protect its children, speaking as a mother here, every parent in israel today expects the government to protect our children and every single parent expects the government to destroy hamas, just like the prime minister announced tonight. so hamas, just like the prime minister announced tonight.— hamas, just like the prime minister announced tonight. so do those aims, destro in: announced tonight. so do those aims, destroying hamas _ announced tonight. so do those aims, destroying hamas and _ announced tonight. so do those aims, destroying hamas and protecting i announced tonight. so do those aims, destroying hamas and protecting yourj destroying hamas and protecting your children, ultimately come into conflict if it seems to be an act of revenge and it breeds a new militancy?— revenge and it breeds a new militan ? , militancy? they are acts of self defence and — militancy? they are acts of self defence and it _ militancy? they are acts of self defence and it has _ militancy? they are acts of self defence and it has nothing i militancy? they are acts of self defence and it has nothing to i militancy? they are acts of self| defence and it has nothing to do militancy? they are acts of self i defence and it has nothing to do to do with revenge. when americans were attacked with 9/11, they went to hunt al-qaeda because they understood al-qaeda was a danger to american people and when the western countries started hunting isis that is because they realised it was dangerous to europe, and the same here, hamas is dangerous to israelis. we have seen the most horrifying photographs. iwas israelis. we have seen the most horrifying photographs. i was with james cleverly the foreign secretary today, and we walked in a house that was still having spots of blood and we saw the house and it looked like a ward zone and this is just one house, from thousands of houses which have been invaded by hamas and targeted, only innocent people, people have no ability to defend themselves, so this barbarism has got to be stopped and israel has got the obligation to do that, and they need to fight terrorism and the uk more than any other country should know that because you were fighting terrorism. i know that because you were fighting terrorism. ~ ., ., , ., ., terrorism. i know that israel has a du to terrorism. i know that israel has a duty to defend — terrorism. i know that israel has a duty to defend its _ terrorism. i know that israel has a duty to defend its citizens - terrorism. i know that israel has a duty to defend its citizens but i'm| duty to defend its citizens but i'm wondering whether levelling gaza does that? if wondering whether levelling gaza does that? , ., , wondering whether levelling gaza doesthat? , ., ., does that? if you sit and do nothing. — does that? if you sit and do nothing. it _ does that? if you sit and do nothing, it will— does that? if you sit and do nothing, it will repeat i does that? if you sit and do | nothing, it will repeat itself, does that? if you sit and do i nothing, it will repeat itself, and those atrocities will repeat themselves. i those atrocities will repeat themselves.— those atrocities will repeat themselves. ., ., themselves. i have heard when coverin: themselves. i have heard when covering conflicts _ themselves. i have heard when covering conflicts with - themselves. i have heard when covering conflicts with gaza i themselves. i have heard when| covering conflicts with gaza and lebanon, this phrase is about restoring deterrence and in the end what it seems to be is about making people suffer so much in those places that they are not likely to give the green light to future there are terrorists there, creating those rockets, and they are creating an munition which killed those innocent people and we need to make sure they will never have the ability to do that again. we have promised thejewish people again, never again, after the holocaust, but what we have seen in those horrors now being exposed, you can see this in videos and on social media, these barbaric actions. many of my grandparents generation, it reminds them of the horrors of the holocaust, and we cannot go back there. ido i do wonder, though, whether to some extent israel would take steps similar to 1982 when it invaded lebanon, in order to remove the infrastructure of the plo, is it then was in lebanon, at huge cost to then was in lebanon, at huge cost to the lebanese, to the israeli society, losing so many soldiers, but ultimately israel is still at war with military factions. it wasn't a permanent fix. it is definitely — wasn't a permanent fix. it is definitely clear _ wasn't a permanent fix. it is definitely clear that - wasn't a permanent fix. it 3 definitely clear that there is wasn't a permanent fix. it 1 definitely clear that there is no other alternative than fighting back if your enemy wants basically to make sure nojewish people live in the land of israel. this is the hamas charter. part of the thing many people get wrong is to try to stand hamas ideology. many people confuse sick with palestinian or islamic ideology. —— confuse it. in hamas, they don't want anyjewish person to exist. we have seen a barbaric action. they want to literally killjewish people in order to achieve that. band literally kill jewish people in order to achieve that. and what you will do, continued _ order to achieve that. and what you will do, continued bombardment. order to achieve that. and what you i will do, continued bombardment from the air in gaza and we assume ground assaults in there with enormous loss of life, will be watched by hezbollah without starting a new front on the north of israel. it doesn't seem to be the option of the military who have mobilised the army to secure the northern border. they seem to think war could break out at any moment with hezbollah. first seem to think war could break out at any moment with hezbollah.- any moment with hezbollah. first of all let's start — any moment with hezbollah. first of all let's start with _ any moment with hezbollah. first of all let's start with the _ any moment with hezbollah. first of all let's start with the southern i all let's start with the southern border. we are clear about the fact that israel is targeting terrorists and terrorist facilities. this is our aim. as opposed to the barbarians who are targeting children, women and young women, by the way, who have been beautifully raped. as a woman i must tell you, every woman in the world against those barbaric people. some of the people in a music festival, they have given testimony about the fact they have raped and murdered those young girls. every woman in the world should come against those barbaric people. some of the people in a music festival, they have given testimony about the fact they have raped and murdered those young girls. every woman in the world should, against girls. every woman in the world should, agains— girls. every woman in the world i should, against- president should, against hamas. president biden was clear _ should, against hamas. president biden was clear when _ should, against hamas. president biden was clear when he - should, against hamas. president biden was clear when he said i should, against hamas. president biden was clear when he said not| should, against hamas. president i biden was clear when he said not to try that israel or united states forces. you see it in his eyes, the united states is sending boots on the ground in terms of aircraft carriers. we can see today 100% of us support, 100% of uk support and revalue the fact that foreign secretary james cleverly came to israel and didn'tjust sit in an office but went to the south to see with his own eyes those horrific events that in the last a8 hours turned every israeli life into a nightmare. we want this nightmare to stop and we want children to beef safe and that's why we are fighting. thank you very much indeed. victoria. as emir reported a little earlier the islamic university of gaza in gaza city was bombed today. i've been talking to an associate professor of education there, nazmi al—masri, who did his masters and phd at salford and then manchester universities. he explained how he felt when he saw the footage of the destruction of his own institution. i feel sad, i feel angry, i feel infuriated. because this means, destruction of universities, means destruction and violation of basic human rights. education is a basic human right for every human being, wherever he or she is, wherever they are, and wherever they live. so this means a violation of basic human rights to get education. second, it means depriving thousands of youth, of palestinians, whose families save a lot of money to educate their children, because education to us is... let me ask you for your reaction to what the israeli air force tweeted today. it tweeted that it attacked your university, which serves as a major training centre for hamas engineers. is that true? of course not, of course not. not at all. because the university was established during the israeli occupation. forgive me, professor, you know what the israeli government says and other international leaders, that the situation in the gaza strip now is because hamas unleashed terror on at least1200 israeli civilians. what we are talking about here is the symptoms rather than the cause of the problems and the cause of the disease. the problem is... forgive me, sorry. they are saying that the cause of the problems in the last four days, that is to say the constant rockets and bombing of the gaza strip, are as a direct result of what hamas did in that attack at the weekend. what about the other three or four wars on gaza? the same thing, air strikes, killing, bombing universities, schools, hospitals and displacing thousands of people. we want to live in peace, what we want is to live in peace. we love peace, we want to live in peace. what is going to happen when the food runs out and the water stops? first of all, i hope not. i hope the international community will interfere, in stopping the cessation of basic human rights. this is basic human rights to every human being, not only to the palestinians, to have food suppliers, to have electricity, to have education, to have water, to have health services and to have basic things. this is something that is double standards. why... 0k. let me finish, please. why they are leaving the palestinians to starve. and now the israelis say it in public that they're going to cut off, and they did. they started today, most of gaza, if not all of it, is in complete darkness. what are you and colleagues and family and friends, what are you thinking about the prospect of israeli troops coming into the gaza strip on the ground? we israeli troops coming into the gaza strip on the ground?— strip on the ground? we live in atience strip on the ground? we live in patience and — strip on the ground? we live in patience and hope. _ strip on the ground? we live in patience and hope. we - strip on the ground? we live in patience and hope. we hope i strip on the ground? we live in i patience and hope. we hope this doesn't happen. we hope the conflict is resolved now and not tomorrow, because we want to save lives on both sides. this is what we want. as an academic, my role is to help people to survive, so i hope... i think you are particularly concerned for your students who have disabilities, is that right? today i was talking _ disabilities, is that right? today i was talking to — disabilities, is that right? today i was talking to one _ disabilities, is that right? today i was talking to one student i disabilities, is that right? today i was talking to one student who i disabilities, is that right? today i l was talking to one student who has disabilities, is that right? today i i was talking to one student who has a disability. the british have trained them how to live their life, how to make a better future for themselves, their families. make a better future for themselves, theirfamilies. she said she make a better future for themselves, their families. she said she was visually impaired. and death as well, because they don't want to hear the thundering aeroplanes and the rolling aeroplanes, and the air strikes. in many ways, when someone says this to you, i feel like i need to help. let's talk about what might happen over the next few days with sir mark lyall grant — former uk permanent representative to the united nations and the uk's national security adviser between 2015 and 2017. how close do you think we are to this ground invasion and how big could it be? i this ground invasion and how big could it be?— could it be? i think we are very close. could it be? i think we are very close- all— could it be? i think we are very close. all indications _ could it be? i think we are very close. all indications are i could it be? i think we are very close. all indications are that l could it be? i think we are very close. all indications are that a ground invasion will happen over the next few days and i think the way that the ground invasion is conducted will determine whether this conflict is limited to israel and gaza or is spread more widely across the region. ii it and gaza or is spread more widely across the region.— across the region. if it is a limited incursion - across the region. if it is a limited incursion that i across the region. if it is a| limited incursion that lasts across the region. if it is a i limited incursion that lasts days thenit limited incursion that lasts days then it is not likely to spread into a wider conflict. but if it is longer than that, what are you suggesting?— longer than that, what are you suntestin? ,., ., ' . suggesting? israel has a difficult ath to suggesting? israel has a difficult path to tread _ suggesting? israel has a difficult path to tread here. _ suggesting? israel has a difficult path to tread here. nobody i suggesting? israel has a difficult i path to tread here. nobody doubts their right to respond to the horrendous massacres and atrocities committed by hamas over the weekend, but they have already had a massive aerial barrage on gaza and once you start the ground invasion, it is quite difficult militarily, there will be resistance and fighting on the streets, and the fate of the hostages. but i'm not sure the stated objective of this operation by benjamin netanyahu, which is to completely destroy hamas as an organisation, and its military capability for all time, organisation, and its military capability forall time, is capability for all time, is achievable through capability forall time, is achievable through purely military means without some parallel political moves. so the danger is that not only will the operation not achieve that objective, but could actually enable hamas to achieve its objective if the israeli defence forces is considered to have reacted disproportionately and hundreds, if not thousands more civilians in gaza are killed. it's important to think about what hamas's objective in this was. of course they wanted to take as many israelis hostage as possible, to kill as many as possible, to kill as many as possible, to kill as many as possible, to instill terror in the country. this could be seen as a last throw of the dice by hamas to keep the palestinian cause at the centre of regional and global attention at a time when we have seen many of israel's arab neighbours seeming to lose interest in the palestinian cause and make peace with israel. and worst of all if you are a palestinian, and a militant as hamas are, to see saudi arabia possibly normalising relations. we have to think about that because if the israelis are perceived to have disproportionately targeted civilians, then some of the arab world will be thinking again about how they deal with israel. 50 about how they deal with israel. so you mean it could bring lebanon and iran into this more directly, and it could halt in its tracks the normalisation of relations between saudi arabia and israel. absolutely. what has been _ saudi arabia and israel. absolutely. what has been striking _ saudi arabia and israel. absolutely. what has been striking for- saudi arabia and israel. absolutely. what has been striking for me i saudi arabia and israel. absolutely. what has been striking for me in i saudi arabia and israel. absolutely. | what has been striking for me in the last few days is that although hamas has called for the west bank to have an uprising and for hezbollah to get involved, actually that hasn't happened. yes, there have been some violent incidents in the west bank and some shooting across the border in lebanon, but they have not been inflamed. it is very much in the hamas interests for the conflict to widen in that way but it is not in israel's interests. secondly, on the normalisation, the abraham accords, it is difficult for saudi arabia now... ii it is difficult for saudi arabia now... , ., it is difficult for saudi arabia now... ,, it is difficult for saudi arabia now... .,., now... if you can explain to our audience. _ now... if you can explain to our audience, most _ now... if you can explain to our audience, most people - now. .. if you can explain to our audience, most people will- now... if you can explain to our i audience, most people will know, but the abraham accords, when donald trump was president, israel essentially made agreements with bahrain, morocco, uae, and another that i will remember shortly. that is a significant move. trier? is a significant move. very significant _ is a significant move. very significant change - is a significant move. very significant change in i is a significant move. very significant change in the i is a significant move. - significant change in the dynamic in the middle east and it could be even more significant if saudi arabia joined, the guardian of the holy places. if that happened, really the palestinian cause would be swept under the carpet, and for hamas that is not a tolerable situation. if they change that dynamic, maybe saudi arabia having to put on pause its attempts to normalise relations with israel, which is almost certain to happen, but also some of those who have already agreed with israel might start rolling back and that could be a big success for hamas. this ground invasion has a lot at stake. . . r' this ground invasion has a lot at stake. ., ., i. ., stake. can i ask you about the possibility _ stake. can i ask you about the possibility of _ stake. can i ask you about the possibility of some _ stake. can i ask you about the possibility of some kind i stake. can i ask you about the possibility of some kind of- possibility of some kind of humanitarian corridor for palestinians trapped in gaza who have been told to get out, but there is no way they can get out. is the pressure on egypt? is there international pressure on egypt to open up some kind of international humanitarian corridor?— humanitarian corridor? certainly e: -t has humanitarian corridor? certainly egypt has the — humanitarian corridor? certainly egypt has the only _ humanitarian corridor? certainly egypt has the only working - humanitarian corridor? certainly . egypt has the only working crossing and they are allowing that crossing to be used for humanitarian aid to go into gaza but they haven't yet allowed those in the gaza strip to leave. there will be some pressure on egypt to allow palestinians to leave by that route but the question is what happens to them after that. we will also see some international pressure on israel, including possibly from antony blinken when he visits tomorrow, to say to israel, look, you can't starve the palestinian population. the siege as a short—term measure prior to a military incursion might be ok, but it is not sustainable and you have to allow some humanitarian aid to go in even if you don't allow the palestinians to go out. interesting because publicly, _ palestinians to go out. interesting because publicly, and _ palestinians to go out. interesting because publicly, andjust- palestinians to go out. interesting because publicly, and just before l palestinians to go out. interesting l because publicly, andjust before he because publicly, and just before he left, he said israel will get everything it needs from the us. but you are saying privately, off—camera, those of a kind of things he will be saying to netanyahu. {iii things he will be saying to netanyahm— things he will be saying to netan ahu. _, , , netanyahu. of course. there will be 100% public — netanyahu. of course. there will be 100% public and _ netanyahu. of course. there will be 10096 public and private _ netanyahu. of course. there will be 10096 public and private support - netanyahu. of course. there will be j 10096 public and private support and 100% public and private support and a lot of military support but i think privately they will be two further messages beyond that. one is the point about proportionality i mentioned earlier, that yes, going into gaza, i don't think anyone will try to persuade the israelis to stop that invasion, it wouldn't be possible, but how it is conducted will be important and they will ask israel to be conscious of that. but also to have some alleviation of the humanitarian blockade.— also to have some alleviation of the humanitarian blockade. thank you for talkin: to humanitarian blockade. thank you for talking to our — humanitarian blockade. thank you for talking to our audience _ humanitarian blockade. thank you for talking to our audience tonight, - humanitarian blockade. thank you for talking to our audience tonight, sir. talking to our audience tonight, sir mark lyall grant. if labour win the next election, sir keir starmer says he is prepared to bulldoze pretty much anyone who opposes his plans to build new houses on the green belt. that may put off some from voting for labour and also may encourage others to support them — people who right now can't afford to get on the housing ladder — whether it's buying a first home or being able to find somewhere to rent that they can actually afford. in a moment, we'll talk to labour's shadow attorney general for england and wales, emily thornberry. first, here's ben on what "green belt" actually means. labour seems to be prepared to rethink the green belt as part of its plans to build 1.5 million new homes over the next parliament. here's what keir starmer said in his conference speech yesterday. where there are clearly ridiculous uses of it — disused car parks, dreary wastelands — not a green belt, but a grey belt. and here's what he said about opposition to his building plans today... and we have to be prepared to say, we will bulldoze through that. you're basically going to say, we hear you but i'm afraid we are ignoring you? yes, we are going to have to do that. this could all benefit from some explaining, especially when it comes to the green belt. first, let's consider what the green belt is and what it isn't, because there is some confusion on this. the green belt was established in the 19505, not to provide green space for public enjoyment, but explicitly to contain the growth of cities. let's have a look at the current [and designated as green belt — around 16,000 square kilometres in england. you can see it's around the cities of london, birmingham and manchester, but also around oxford and cambridge, and also bristol. it's important to distinguish this from green [and which is protected for public enjoyment, the national parks, shown here in green, and areas of outstanding natural beauty, shown in pink. as you can see, there's actually little overlap between these places and the green belt. so when development on the green belt is mooted, it's not a discussion about development in places like the lake district, exmoor and the yorkshire dales. about 7% of the green belt is already built upon, mostly prior to its designation, and less than 7% is open for public recreation. the majority of it is commercial farmland. and in london, a considerable chunk is devoted to golf courses. and importantly, the green belt now covers around one eighth of england's landmass. economists tend to agree that this has been a constraint, not only on house—building but economic growth more generally, as our most productive cities are unable to expand. we know that planning in general and the restrictiveness of the planning system, and the lack of land for houses, has caused house prices to rise astronomically relative to people's incomes, and that means it is difficult to recruit labour where it is most productive, because it's too expensive to buy houses. so places like oxford or cambridge or london, where people are very productive and which are the real potential centres of growth, find difficulties in recruiting skilled labour. estimates suggest that development ofjust 2% of existing green belt land near railway stations serving big cities would unlock some a70 square kilometres of land, enough to increase the housing stock by 7—9%, or some 2 million homes. but the green belt has a diverse and formidable lobby defence group, comprising environmental organisations, countryside bodies, parts of the media, and householders who don't want development near them, often because they fear, reasonably or unreasonably, that the building will be inappropriate, insensitive or ecologically damaging, or that it will put excessive strain on local transport infrastructure and public services. previous attempts by politicians to reform the planning rules to allow more development have led to retreat in the face of this lobby. gordon brown as pm announced plans to step up house—building in 2007 and was opposed by the campaign for rural england, citing the pressure on the green belt. suggestions for relaxing green belt rules by former chancellor sajid javid and liz truss met similar resistance. the question is how keir starmer�*s labour party will succeed while others have failed. for labour, let's talk to emily thornberry, the party's shadow attorney general. so is keir starmer really going to ignore local opposition to housing developments? he himself has been a newbie when it came to hs2 disrupting residents in camden in london —— nimby. the disrupting residents in camden in london -- nimby. ., ., london -- nimby. the government had no lans in london -- nimby. the government had no plans in that — london -- nimby. the government had no plans in that case _ london -- nimby. the government had no plans in that case for _ london -- nimby. the government had no plans in that case for rehousing - no plans in that case for rehousing in social housing so that was what the problem was, and he had an opposition to that, and once hs2 got the go—ahead, that was that as far as he was concerned, but he had to speak up on the half of those in social housing who were losing their homes and there did not seem to be readily appropriate alternatives for them to live in. he readily appropriate alternatives for them to live in.— them to live in. he said that labour, _ them to live in. he said that labour, if — them to live in. he said that labour, if they _ them to live in. he said that labour, if they win - them to live in. he said that labour, if they win the - them to live in. he said that labour, if they win the next | labour, if they win the next election, will devolve power to local communities but also remove local communities but also remove local powers to block housing, both can't be true? if you give a region the responsibility for. can't be true? if you give a region the responsibili_ the responsibility for, you say, these are _ the responsibility for, you say, these are the _ the responsibility for, you say, these are the number- the responsibility for, you say, these are the number of- the responsibility for, you say, l these are the number of houses you're expected have in your region, you're expected have in your region, you need to sort it out between yourselves and find the most appropriate places, so there is not the hyper localism but more of a regional power, when it comes to making decisions in relation to housing, which is the way we want to go. 50 housing, which is the way we want to co. ., i. housing, which is the way we want to co. ,,,., ., go. so are you saying that local opposition _ go. so are you saying that local opposition would _ go. so are you saying that local opposition would be _ go. so are you saying that local opposition would be ignored? l go. so are you saying that local - opposition would be ignored? we're sa inc opposition would be ignored? we're sa in: an opposition would be ignored? we're saying any local _ opposition would be ignored? we're saying any local opposition - opposition would be ignored? -- saying any local opposition would be ignored. saying any local opposition would be innored. ~ . ., , saying any local opposition would be innored. . ., , ., saying any local opposition would be innored. ~ . ., , ., -- ignored. which would be ignored? -- we are not saying _ ignored. which would be ignored? -- we are not saying any _ ignored. which would be ignored? -- we are not saying any local— we are not saying any local opposition would be ignored. the answer is, we have got to build homes, we have got to build them somewhere. homes, we have got to build them somewhere-— homes, we have got to build them somewhere. you have said you will not ianore somewhere. you have said you will not ignore local _ somewhere. you have said you will not ignore local opposition - somewhere. you have said you will not ignore local opposition but - somewhere. you have said you will not ignore local opposition but you | not ignore local opposition but you will have to ignore some local opposition. so which will you ignore? i opposition. so which will you ianore? �* ., opposition. so which will you ianore? ., ., ., ., ignore? i can't go to it on a case-by-case _ ignore? i can't go to it on a case-by-case basis - ignore? i can't go to it on a case-by-case basis but - ignore? i can't go to it on a case-by-case basis but we | ignore? i can't go to it on a - case-by-case basis but we have got case—by—case basis but we have got to get going on this and keir starmer is saying that he will show the leadership and be the leadership that the country needs, frankly the younger generation needs. eating younger generation needs. ealing council earlier _ younger generation needs. ealing council earlier this _ younger generation needs. ealing council earlier this year _ younger generation needs. ealing council earlier this year scrapped plans for a 26 story tower scheme at its council offices which would have provided a77 new homes, ten minutes from the nearest tube station. one of those objecting was a labour mp for ealing, and when it was ditched this year she said, it was good news. so if he becomes prime minister that he will have a queue of labour mps like that and others objecting to developments which may be unpopular in their constituencies and with local voters. what be unpopular in their constituencies and with local voters.— be unpopular in their constituencies and with local voters. what we have to do is stand _ and with local voters. what we have to do is stand on _ and with local voters. what we have to do is stand on a _ and with local voters. what we have to do is stand on a manifesto - and with local voters. what we have to do is stand on a manifesto which | to do is stand on a manifesto which says to a younger generation, we are going to make sure that we are building homes that you can afford to buy, just like when we were in our 20s and 30s, life was different, we were able to find permanent accommodation. we did not have to stay in flats of multiple occupation with one person in every single room. the answer has got to be building more. we have got to bite the bullet and just do it. fik. building more. we have got to bite the bullet and just do it.— the bullet and 'ust do it. ok. let me askyou — the bullet andjust do it. ok. let me ask you about _ the bullet andjust do it. ok. let me ask you about israel - the bullet andjust do it. ok. let me ask you about israel gaza - the bullet and just do it. ok. let| me ask you about israel gaza and the bullet and just do it. ok. let - me ask you about israel gaza and you are a for shadow foreign secretary. keir starmer was asked if it was appropriate for israel to cut off water to the powers —— water and power to the gaza strip, and he said israel has a right to defend itself. starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited, so what was he talking about?— was he talking about? israel has been the victim _ was he talking about? israel has been the victim of— was he talking about? israel has been the victim of terrorism, - was he talking about? israel has. been the victim of terrorism, that is what he was talking about, and israel has a right to defend itself. we understand that.— we understand that. there is an onauoin we understand that. there is an ongoing war _ we understand that. there is an ongoing war going _ we understand that. there is an ongoing war going on _ we understand that. there is an ongoing war going on and - we understand that. there is an ongoing war going on and we i we understand that. there is an i ongoing war going on and we have heard tonight that planes cannot [and in tel aviv and the foreign land in tel aviv and the foreign secretary has been put into a bunker. the war is active and israel needs to be able to not only find the terrorists but also rescue the people who have been... starvation of civilians is _ people who have been... starvation of civilians is prohibited, _ people who have been... starvation of civilians is prohibited, though. i of civilians is prohibited, though. i don't know what the plan is on a day by day basis but i

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