you think about this idea? and whether we think we need this idea? visit bbc dot co .uk slash five live and here�*s your news. sir keir starmer has called labour�*s win in the rutherglen and hamilton west by—election a "seismic result" for the party. they secured more than twice the number of votes as the snp which had held the seat. labour�*s pledged to bring in supervised toothbrushing at schools in england as well as an extra 700,000 dentist appointments if they win the next election. the party�*s also pledged to prioritise patients in need of serious treatment. rishi sunak and his italian counterpart georgia meloni have urged the eu to go "much further" in tackling illegal migration. they say action�*s needed to smash the smuggling gangs who�*ve caused a moral and humanitarian crisis. and mps are calling for a ban on the use of live facial recognition technology for public surveillance. they�*ve signed a statement with tech experts and campaign groups to raise concerns about the police and private companies deploying the cameras. so this idea of supervised tooth—brushing sessions at school. as i mentioned, it�*s already happening. teachers, let�*s hear on you from this. 83% of teachers say they help with brushing. they said that there are children and their schools who do not have supplies. this could relate to the cost of living crisis. we know there�*s a crisis in dentistry. how much is this is not having access to a dentist, or being able to afford dental toothpaste, toothbrushes. what is at the heart of it? professor claire stevens, a paediatric dentist is on our show to talk about this. good morning, how are you? i�*m fine. wanting to get to the bottom of this. we�*ve got chris groombridge who is head of the charity, and michelle, a health visitor. in charity, and michelle, a health visitor. �* ., ., ., visitor. in bournemouth, dental health is really _ visitor. in bournemouth, dental health is really important. - visitor. in bournemouth, dental health is really important. we l visitor. in bournemouth, dental. health is really important. we give out toothbrushes, toothpaste because we don't _ out toothbrushes, toothpaste because we don't routinely see children until_ we don't routinely see children until they're ten months. so we try to get— until they're ten months. so we try to get in_ until they're ten months. so we try to get in early, get their teeth sorted — to get in early, get their teeth sorted at _ to get in early, get their teeth sorted at an early age. it's about getting _ sorted at an early age. it's about getting that message out early, how to promote good dental health in children — to promote good dental health in children. but to promote good dental health in children. �* , ., , ., children. but why are you needed, sor to children. but why are you needed, sorry to interrupt. _ children. but why are you needed, sorry to interrupt. well, _ children. but why are you needed, sorry to interrupt. well, because l children. but why are you needed, i sorry to interrupt. well, because we know that there _ sorry to interrupt. well, because we know that there are _ sorry to interrupt. well, because we know that there are far _ sorry to interrupt. well, because we know that there are far too - sorry to interrupt. well, because we know that there are far too many . know that there are far too many children— know that there are far too many children who need teeth out. dental care is_ children who need teeth out. dental care is a _ children who need teeth out. dental care is a real problem. children are having _ care is a real problem. children are having problems, their parents are registered — having problems, their parents are registered at a dentist so getting a child into _ registered at a dentist so getting a child into a dentist is almost impossible. there is an nhs act where _ impossible. there is an nhs act where you — impossible. there is an nhs act where you can put in your postcode and yotr'it _ where you can put in your postcode and you'll be lucky if a dentist come — and you'll be lucky if a dentist come up _ and you'll be lucky if a dentist come up once a month when they've -ot come up once a month when they've got space _ come up once a month when they've got space and they're not taking new patients _ got space and they're not taking new patients. 50 got space and they're not taking new atients. , ., ~' got space and they're not taking new atients. , ., ,, �* , ., got space and they're not taking new atients. y., ,, �*, ., ., . ,, patients. 50 you think it's a lack of dentistry _ patients. 50 you think it's a lack of dentistry rather _ patients. 50 you think it's a lack of dentistry rather than - patients. 50 you think it's a lack of dentistry rather than a - patients. 50 you think it's a lack of dentistry rather than a lack . patients. 50 you think it's a lack| of dentistry rather than a lack of knowledge? it�*s of dentistry rather than a lack of knowledge?— of dentistry rather than a lack of knowledge? of dentistry rather than a lack of knowledue? �*, ., , ., , knowledge? it's a bit of both but i think the knowledge? it's a bit of both but i thinkthe lack— knowledge? it's a bit of both but i think the lack of _ knowledge? it's a bit of both but i think the lack of dentistry - knowledge? it's a bit of both but i think the lack of dentistry is - knowledge? it's a bit of both but i think the lack of dentistry is a - think the lack of dentistry is a huge. — think the lack of dentistry is a huge, huge issue. ifi think the lack of dentistry is a huge, huge issue. if i go to a family— huge, huge issue. if i go to a family and _ huge, huge issue. if i go to a family and the parents have got bad teeth, it's things like sugary drinks, _ teeth, it's things like sugary drinks, we need to promote good habits _ drinks, we need to promote good habits from an early age. we need to id habits from an early age. we need to go in _ habits from an early age. we need to go in when _ habits from an early age. we need to go in when they are 6—7, if we going then it's _ go in when they are 6—7, if we going then it's a _ go in when they are 6—7, if we going then it's a little bit too late. we need _ then it's a little bit too late. we need to— then it's a little bit too late. we need to getting early. early help intervention, having service like us, it's— intervention, having service like us, it's really important to give that— us, it's really important to give that support. do us, it's really important to give that sowed-— us, it's really important to give that su--ort. , ., that support. do some people not realise the _ that support. do some people not realise the correlation _ that support. do some people not realise the correlation between i realise the correlation between coca—cola, and tooth decay and too much chocolate and tooth decay? bill much chocolate and tooth decay? all that stuff? absolutely. this is why heaith _ that stuff? absolutely. this is why health promotion... it's an unusual thing. _ health promotion... it's an unusual thing, health promotion nurses but we are _ thing, health promotion nurses but we are important, that's why we are so important, we need to be out there. _ so important, we need to be out there, getting these messages out to people _ there, getting these messages out to people. we have one mandatory visit before _ people. we have one mandatory visit before they— people. we have one mandatory visit before they are 27 months and that's not quite _ before they are 27 months and that's not quite enough. we need to be able to get— not quite enough. we need to be able to get out— not quite enough. we need to be able to get out there, get these messages out there. _ to get out there, get these messages out there, have funding to run groups. — out there, have funding to run groups, help educate parents. why do the need groups, help educate parents. why do they need educating? _ groups, help educate parents. why do they need educating? i'm _ groups, help educate parents. why do they need educating? i'm not - groups, help educate parents. why do they need educating? i'm not being i they need educating? i�*m not being judgmental, masking the question? why don�*t they understand that coca—cola and sugary drinks will rot your teeth? coca-cola and sugary drinks will rot your teeth?— your teeth? well, the thing is, we can all have _ your teeth? well, the thing is, we can all have things _ your teeth? well, the thing is, we can all have things in _ your teeth? well, the thing is, we can all have things in moderationl can all have things in moderation but a _ can all have things in moderation but a bottle of cheap coke might be cheaper _ but a bottle of cheap coke might be cheaper than buying squash or something like that. we don't want to make _ something like that. we don't want to make food and drink, you know they can't— to make food and drink, you know they can't have them or don't want them, _ they can't have them or don't want them, and — they can't have them or don't want them, and we know that people really resist _ them, and we know that people really resist when _ them, and we know that people really resist when you're telling them what they can _ resist when you're telling them what they can and can't have. it's about getting _ they can and can't have. it's about getting the — they can and can't have. it's about getting the message out there that things— getting the message out there that things should be taken in moderation. we need to be getting out the _ moderation. we need to be getting out the message that things in moderation, you don't have to binge on things _ moderation, you don't have to binge on things. you can have something but maybe — on things. you can have something but maybe not have a two litre bottle — but maybe not have a two litre bottle of— but maybe not have a two litre bottle of coke between a family over one night _ bottle of coke between a family over one night i— bottle of coke between a family over one niuht. , ., ., ., one night. i understand. you are doinu a one night. i understand. you are doing a great — one night. i understand. you are doing a great job. _ one night. i understand. you are doing a great job. you've - one night. i understand. you are doing a great job. you've given l one night. i understand. you are. doing a great job. you've given us one night. i understand. you are i doing a great job. you've given us a doing a greatjob. you�*ve given us a great start with your knowledge from what you do. it�*s a great call. this ideas come from the labour party. we are wondering about the merit in the policy. talking of labour, they had a famous victory last night in the by—election and we are expecting circuits tamar to be uttering a few words this morning —— sir keir starmer. we still want to discuss that results. what about that call, claire stevens, from michelle in bournemouth?— stevens, from michelle in bournemouth? �*, . ., ., bournemouth? it's amazing that health visitors _ bournemouth? it's amazing that health visitors have _ bournemouth? it's amazing that health visitors have just - bournemouth? it's amazing that health visitors have just got i bournemouth? it's amazing that health visitors have just got all. bournemouth? it's amazing that | health visitors have just got all of this expertise. they are the trusted health care professionals for these young families and i have to applaud everything that she has said. and everything that she has said. and everything the health visitors are doing because children�*s health is everybody�*s business and she�*s just explained so amazingly how having that important early access can really make a difference in these children�*s lives. who; really make a difference in these children's lives.— children's lives. why is it so bad now? i'm _ children's lives. why is it so bad now? i'm looking _ children's lives. why is it so bad now? i'm looking at _ children's lives. why is it so bad now? i'm looking at some i children's lives. why is it so bad now? i'm looking at some of i children's lives. why is it so bad | now? i'm looking at some of the now? i�*m looking at some of the statistics here, the amount of children who suffering in this way. i did read this one earlier on in my eyes alighted on it again. three in ten children have a now multi—decay in england. it�*s like that everywhere? it shocking. in in england. it's like that everywhere? it shocking. in england at the moment _ everywhere? it shocking. in england at the moment we _ everywhere? it shocking. in england at the moment we have _ everywhere? it shocking. in england at the moment we have half - everywhere? it shocking. in england| at the moment we have half children starting school with visible tooth decay. removing decayed teeth is the most common reason for a child to be admitted to hospital in england so when i say we need radical policy and we need investment in children�*s oral health i do that based on the statistics day in, day out. as a consultant, i�*m on the receiving end of children in the highest need. i�*ve removed all 20 teeth from a two—year—old child. i�*ve got ia—year—olds who have never been able to access an nhs dentist. it�*s time to do things differently. that�*s absolutely heartbreaking! a two—year—old child? run that won by me again. two-year-old child? run that won by me aaain. my two-year-old child? run that won by me aaain. . ., �*, two-year-old child? run that won by me aaain. ., �*, ., ., me again. nicky, that's not a one-off- _ me again. nicky, that's not a one-off. this _ me again. nicky, that's not a one-off. this is _ me again. nicky, that's not a one-off. this is a _ me again. nicky, that's not a one-off. this is a weekly i me again. nicky, that's not a i one-off. this is a weekly event. one—off. this is a weekly event. this, as a parent, i can�*t tell you the number of times i�*ve had to step aside from the operating table because itjust aside from the operating table because it just feels aside from the operating table because itjust feels so wrong. this is a socialjustice issue and, you know, when i hear these things are too difficult, workaday of a paediatric surgeon and you will understand why it so important to make a difference to children�*s oral health. tote make a difference to children's oral health. ~ ., ., ., ., health. we are going to head teacher colin watson- — health. we are going to head teacher colin watson. did _ health. we are going to head teacher colin watson. did you _ health. we are going to head teacher colin watson. did you hear _ health. we are going to head teacher colin watson. did you hear that i colin watson. did you hear that cofin? colin watson. did you hear that colin? yes, _ colin watson. did you hear that colin? yes, good _ colin watson. did you hear that colin? yes, good morning. i colin watson. did you hear that| colin? yes, good morning. what colin watson. did you hear that i colin? yes, good morning. what do ou make colin? yes, good morning. what do you make of — colin? yes, good morning. what do you make of it? _ colin? yes, good morning. what do you make of it? you _ colin? yes, good morning. what do you make of it? you know- colin? yes, good morning. what do you make of it? you know what i colin? yes, good morning. what do you make of it? you know what to l you make of it? you know what to make of it because you are on the front line. we make of it because you are on the front line. ~ . , ., front line. we are seeing a similar attern in front line. we are seeing a similar pattern in schools, _ front line. we are seeing a similar pattern in schools, to _ front line. we are seeing a similar pattern in schools, to be - front line. we are seeing a similar pattern in schools, to be honest, | pattern in schools, to be honest, and we _ pattern in schools, to be honest, and we now — pattern in schools, to be honest, and we now are trying to get people to brush— and we now are trying to get people to brush their teeth as early as key stage _ to brush their teeth as early as key stage one — to brush their teeth as early as key stare one. ., ., .. , stage one. how do teachers find the time to do this _ stage one. how do teachers find the time to do this with _ stage one. how do teachers find the time to do this with all— stage one. how do teachers find the time to do this with all the - time to do this with all the pressure they�*re under? time to do this with all the pressure they're under? fortunately, we had it in — pressure they're under? fortunately, we had it in place _ pressure they're under? fortunately, we had it in place for— pressure they're under? fortunately, we had it in place for a _ pressure they're under? fortunately, we had it in place for a few _ pressure they're under? fortunately, we had it in place for a few nears. i we had it in place for a few nears. the children— we had it in place for a few nears. the children are brought in a couple of minutes— the children are brought in a couple of minutes early at lunchtime and they sit— of minutes early at lunchtime and they sit their children down, get their— they sit their children down, get their teeth brushed from the brush bus and _ their teeth brushed from the brush bus and they all brush their teeth for two _ bus and they all brush their teeth for two minutes.— bus and they all brush their teeth for two minutes. when did you start this and what _ for two minutes. when did you start this and what made _ for two minutes. when did you start this and what made you _ for two minutes. when did you start this and what made you think- for two minutes. when did you start this and what made you think you i for two minutes. when did you start i this and what made you think you had to? it�*s this and what made you think you had to? �* , , ., ., , ., , to? it's been going for five years. we were approached _ to? it's been going for five years. we were approached by _ to? it's been going for five years. we were approached by bolton i to? it's been going for five years. i we were approached by bolton oral health— we were approached by bolton oral health team. tooth decay in bolton has been _ health team. tooth decay in bolton has been disproportionately happening for some time now so this was the _ happening for some time now so this was the intervention.— was the intervention. chris, can you aet was the intervention. chris, can you net to the was the intervention. chris, can you get to the heart _ was the intervention. chris, can you get to the heart of— was the intervention. chris, can you get to the heart of this _ was the intervention. chris, can you get to the heart of this for - was the intervention. chris, can you get to the heart of this for me i get to the heart of this for me because i�*m looking at the areas in england where there are five—year—olds who have the best teeth, and where they have the worst teeth. i�*m trying to see the correlations between poverty and floral ideation —— fluralisation. the worst place, cambridge, pendle,, east cambridgeshire, bolton, brent, liverpool, blackpool and camden. what can you get from that picture? the areas, if you go further into them you�*ve got areas of deprivation. some people living in the poorest parts of britain, there�*s pockets of real deprivation where people are three times more likely to experience dental decay. there is a direct issue between poverty and tooth decay. children in the most deprived areas are five times more likely to have a tooth extracted. take yorkshire and humber, its 78 per 100,000 kids, versus england where its 205. i completely agree with what claire has been saying. the research shows, in the north—west, 26% of children in the north—west, 26% of children in hospitalfor in the north—west, 26% of children in hospital for tooth extraction are missing days and losing the chance to prosper. missing days and losing the chance to --roser. �*, ., ~ missing days and losing the chance to --roser. �*, ., ,, ., to prosper. let's talk to danielle in sunderland _ to prosper. let's talk to danielle in sunderland who _ to prosper. let's talk to danielle in sunderland who has _ to prosper. let's talk to danielle in sunderland who has been i in sunderland who has been listening. in sunderland who has been listening-— in sunderland who has been listeninu. ~ . ., ~' in sunderland who has been listeninu. ., ., ,, ., listening. what would you like to sa ? i listening. what would you like to say? i just _ listening. what would you like to say? ijust think, _ listening. what would you like to say? ijust think, i— listening. what would you like to say? ijust think, i think- listening. what would you like to say? ijust think, i think it's i say? ijust think, i think it's great — say? ijust think, i think it's great that— say? ijust think, i think it's great that teachers - say? ijust think, i think it's great that teachers are i say? ijust think, i think it's i great that teachers are offering support, — great that teachers are offering support, in _ great that teachers are offering support. in my— great that teachers are offering support, in my opinion - great that teachers are offering support, in my opinion i- great that teachers are offering support, in my opinion i don't. great that teachers are offering i support, in my opinion i don't think it's up— support, in my opinion i don't think it's up to _ support, in my opinion i don't think it's up to them _ support, in my opinion i don't think it's up to them. my— support, in my opinion i don't think it's up to them. my little _ support, in my opinion i don't think it's up to them. my little boy - support, in my opinion i don't think it's up to them. my little boy is i it's up to them. my little boy is three _ it's up to them. my little boy is three and — it's up to them. my little boy is three and a _ it's up to them. my little boy is three and a half. _ it's up to them. my little boy is three and a half. he _ it's up to them. my little boy is three and a half. he was- it's up to them. my little boy is three and a half. he was a i three and a half. he was a coronavirus _ three and a half. he was a coronavirus baby. - three and a half. he was a coronavirus baby. we i three and a half. he was a coronavirus baby. we hadl three and a half. he was a i coronavirus baby. we had no three and a half. he was a _ coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's coronavirus baby. we had no support. its my— coronavirus baby. we had no support. its my duty— coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's my duty as— coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's my duty as a — coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's my duty as a mother. _ coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's my duty as a mother. i— coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's my duty as a mother. i chose i coronavirus baby. we had no support. it's my duty as a mother. i chose to l it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring _ it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring my— it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring my child — it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring my child into _ it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring my child into the _ it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring my child into the world - it's my duty as a mother. i chose to bring my child into the world and i bring my child into the world and therefore — bring my child into the world and therefore i— bring my child into the world and therefore i should _ bring my child into the world and therefore i should be _ bring my child into the world and i therefore i should be responsible. he knows— therefore i should be responsible. he knows how _ therefore i should be responsible. he knows how to _ therefore i should be responsible. he knows how to wash _ therefore i should be responsible. he knows how to wash his - therefore i should be responsible. he knows how to wash his face, i therefore i should be responsible. i he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes _ he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes on. — he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes on, it's— he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes on, it's my— he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes on, it's my duty— he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes on, it's my duty to - he knows how to wash his face, put his shoes on, it's my duty to teachl his shoes on, it's my duty to teach him that — his shoes on, it's my duty to teach him that he — his shoes on, it's my duty to teach him that. he cleaned _ his shoes on, it's my duty to teach him that. he cleaned his _ his shoes on, it's my duty to teach him that. he cleaned his teeth- his shoes on, it's my duty to teach i him that. he cleaned his teeth twice a day, _ him that. he cleaned his teeth twice a day, under— him that. he cleaned his teeth twice a day, under duress, _ him that. he cleaned his teeth twice a day, under duress, mind. - him that. he cleaned his teeth twice a day, under duress, mind. it's- him that. he cleaned his teeth twice a day, under duress, mind. it's not. a day, under duress, mind. it's not the schools— a day, under duress, mind. it's not the schooisiob _ a day, under duress, mind. it's not the schoolsjob. i'm _ a day, under duress, mind. it's not the schoolsjob. i'm his— a day, under duress, mind. it's not the schoolsjob. i'm his mother- a day, under duress, mind. it's not| the schoolsjob. i'm his mother and that is— the schoolsjob. i'm his mother and that is my— the schoolsjob. i'm his mother and that is my opinion, _ the schoolsjob. i'm his mother and that is my opinion, anyway. - the schoolsjob. i'm his mother and that is my opinion, anyway.- the schoolsjob. i'm his mother and that is my opinion, anyway. which is what it's all— that is my opinion, anyway. which is what it's all about. _ that is my opinion, anyway. which is what it's all about. listen, _ that is my opinion, anyway. which is what it's all about. listen, get i that is my opinion, anyway. which is what it's all about. listen, get in i what it�*s all about. listen, get in touch if your child has had an instruction and tell us about that. it might be the case that you cannot get a dentist. that�*s a big aspect of this. why do you think, danielle, that some children do not know that this is the right thing to do and some parents do not know this is the right thing for the children?- right thing for the children? wide? well, it's that _ right thing for the children? wide? well, it's that whole _ right thing for the children? wide? well, it's that whole thing, - right thing for the children? wide? well, it's that whole thing, i i right thing for the children? wide? well, it's that whole thing, i knowl well, it's that whole thing, i know it's a _ well, it's that whole thing, i know it's a cliche — well, it's that whole thing, i know it's a cliche but _ well, it's that whole thing, i know it's a cliche but it's— well, it's that whole thing, i know it's a cliche but it's nature - well, it's that whole thing, i know it's a cliche but it's nature versusl it's a cliche but it's nature versus nurture~ — it's a cliche but it's nature versus nurture~ if — it's a cliche but it's nature versus nurture. if the _ it's a cliche but it's nature versus nurture. if the parents _ it's a cliche but it's nature versus nurture. if the parents don't i it's a cliche but it's nature versusl nurture. if the parents don't know how to _ nurture. if the parents don't know how to do — nurture. if the parents don't know how to do it— nurture. if the parents don't know how to do it then _ nurture. if the parents don't know how to do it then they— nurture. if the parents don't know how to do it then they don't - nurture. if the parents don't know how to do it then they don't really care about — how to do it then they don't really care about giving _ how to do it then they don't really care about giving your— how to do it then they don't really care about giving your child - how to do it then they don't really care about giving your child set i how to do it then they don't reallyj care about giving your child set up -- the _ care about giving your child set up -- the best— care about giving your child set up -- the best set— care about giving your child set up —— the best set up— care about giving your child set up —— the best set up in— care about giving your child set up —— the best set up in life - care about giving your child set up —— the best set up in life then- care about giving your child set up —— the best set up in life then you| —— the best set up in life then you aren't— —— the best set up in life then you aren't going — —— the best set up in life then you aren't going to _ —— the best set up in life then you aren't going to really— —— the best set up in life then you aren't going to really care - —— the best set up in life then you aren't going to really care if - —— the best set up in life then you aren't going to really care if they. aren't going to really care if they io aren't going to really care if they go to— aren't going to really care if they go to school— aren't going to really care if they go to school with _ aren't going to really care if they go to school with dirty— aren't going to really care if they go to school with dirty hair, i aren't going to really care if theyj go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen~ _ go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen~ it — go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen~ it also _ go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen. it also goes _ go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen. it also goes back— go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen. it also goes back to - go to school with dirty hair, dirty teen. it also goes back to the i go to school with dirty hair, dirtyi teen. it also goes back to the cost of living — teen. it also goes back to the cost of living are _ teen. it also goes back to the cost of living. are they— teen. it also goes back to the cost of living. are they going _ teen. it also goes back to the cost of living. are they going to - teen. it also goes back to the cost of living. are they going to spend i of living. are they going to spend £3 of living. are they going to spend 5 on _ of living. are they going to spend 5 on a _ of living. are they going to spend 5 on a tube _ of living. are they going to spend £3 on a tube of— of living. are they going to spend £3 on a tube of toothpaste - of living. are they going to spend £3 on a tube of toothpaste or i of living. are they going to spend | £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p of living. are they going to spend i £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle _ £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle of— £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle of full— £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle of full fat _ £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle of full fat coke. _ £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle of full fat coke. it's - £3 on a tube of toothpaste or 50p on a bottle of full fat coke. it's all- a bottle of full fat coke. it's all coming — a bottle of full fat coke. it's all coming down _ a bottle of full fat coke. it's all coming down to _ a bottle of full fat coke. it's all coming down to the _ a bottle of full fat coke. it's all coming down to the cost - a bottle of full fat coke. it's all coming down to the cost of. a bottle of full fat coke. it's all. coming down to the cost of living a bottle of full fat coke. it's all- coming down to the cost of living as weii~ _ coming down to the cost of living as weii~ its— coming down to the cost of living as weii~ it'sjust— coming down to the cost of living as weii~ it's just a _ coming down to the cost of living as well. it's just a vicious _ coming down to the cost of living as well. it's just a vicious circle. - well. it's just a vicious circle. they— well. it's just a vicious circle. they cant— well. it's just a vicious circle. they can't be _ well. it's just a vicious circle. they can't be bothered, i well. it's just a vicious circle. l they can't be bothered, can't well. it's just a vicious circle. - they can't be bothered, can't afford it, they can't be bothered, can't afford it. won't_ they can't be bothered, can't afford it. won't to — they can't be bothered, can't afford it. won't to do — they can't be bothered, can't afford it. won't to do it_ they can't be bothered, can't afford it, won't to do it and _ they can't be bothered, can't afford it, won't to do it and the _ they can't be bothered, can't afford it, won't to do it and the children i it, won't to do it and the children are suffering _ it, won't to do it and the children are suffering-— it, won't to do it and the children are suffering. can't be bothered? claire could _ are suffering. can't be bothered? claire could you _ are suffering. can't be bothered? claire could you address - are suffering. can't be bothered? claire could you address this. - are suffering. can't be bothered? claire could you address this. it's| claire could you address this. it's not the claire could you address this. it�*s not the experience that i'm seeing. i'm seeing families who are desperate for support. i'm seeing families who are desperate forsupport. i'm i'm seeing families who are desperate for support. i'm seeing families who have witnessed their children having multiple dental infections, potentially going to a&e and seen the consequences of poor oral health when it's too late and have seen parents putting temporary fillings in their own children because they can't get access to nhs dental care so i'm not saying that supervised tooth brushing is the only thing here, i'm saying it's part of the solution and i'm not saying that parents don't have a responsibility. of course they do but as a society, we also have a responsibility to support the most vulnerable children who, through no fault of their own, are born into a lifetime of poverty and we need to break those cycles. every child should get the same start that my children have been privileged to have and that's why i advocate that is so fiercely. it's notjust about the prevention, that's absolutely important and even if we forget the children in this, i can't, but if we can, from an economic perspective it makes sense to because that every pound we invest in supervised tooth—brushing actually deliver several fold tooth—brushing actually deliver severalfold in tooth—brushing actually deliver several fold in a few years' time and we know that from the research north of the border. and then combining that with the toothbrushes packed in these early years settings. this is targeted so it's going to most in need. it's not a blanket offer. it's about lifting those children from the poorest prospects and giving them a chance of the best start in life. do prospects and giving them a chance of the best start in life.— of the best start in life. do you want to come _ of the best start in life. do you want to come back, _ of the best start in life. do you want to come back, danielle? | of the best start in life. do you - want to come back, danielle? we've got cathy, as well. interesting points from professor stevens. she is riaht points from professor stevens. she is right and — points from professor stevens. she is right and i— points from professor stevens. she is right and i totally, totally agred _ is right and i totally, totally agred me _ is right and i totally, totally agree. me and _ is right and i totally, totally agree. me and my- is right and i totally, totally agree. me and my little - is right and i totally, totally. agree. me and my little boy's is right and i totally, totally- agree. me and my little boy's dad, we were _ agree. me and my little boy's dad, we were in— agree. me and my little boy's dad, we were in the— agree. me and my little boy's dad, we were in the north—east, - agree. me and my little boy's dad, we were in the north—east, we'vel agree. me and my little boy's dad, i we were in the north—east, we've got normai— we were in the north—east, we've got normaiiobs _ we were in the north—east, we've got normaiiobs but — we were in the north—east, we've got normaljobs but it's— we were in the north—east, we've got normaljobs but it's kind _ we were in the north—east, we've got normaljobs but it's kind of, - we were in the north—east, we've got normaljobs but it's kind of, all- normaljobs but it's kind of, all about— normaljobs but it's kind of, all about priorities, _ normaljobs but it's kind of, all about priorities, what - normaljobs but it's kind of, all about priorities, what you - normaljobs but it's kind of, all. about priorities, what you spend your— about priorities, what you spend your money— about priorities, what you spend your money on _ about priorities, what you spend your money on and _ about priorities, what you spend your money on and how - about priorities, what you spend your money on and how you - about priorities, what you spend your money on and how you seti about priorities, what you spend . your money on and how you set up your— your money on and how you set up your child — your money on and how you set up your child to — your money on and how you set up your child to have _ your money on and how you set up your child to have the _ your money on and how you set up your child to have the best - your money on and how you set up your child to have the best start. l your child to have the best start. he's_ your child to have the best start. he's done — your child to have the best start. he's done to _ your child to have the best start. he's done to the _ your child to have the best start. he's gone to the best _ your child to have the best start. he's gone to the best nursery, . your child to have the best start. . he's gone to the best nursery, one of the _ he's gone to the best nursery, one of the hest— he's gone to the best nursery, one of the best schools _ he's gone to the best nursery, one of the best schools in _ he's gone to the best nursery, one of the best schools in the - he's gone to the best nursery, one of the best schools in the area, - he's gone to the best nursery, one of the best schools in the area, he| of the best schools in the area, he hasn't _ of the best schools in the area, he hasn't chosen _ of the best schools in the area, he hasn't chosen that, _ of the best schools in the area, he hasn't chosen that, i've _ of the best schools in the area, he hasn't chosen that, i've shown - of the best schools in the area, he| hasn't chosen that, i've shown him that, _ hasn't chosen that, i've shown him that, so— hasn't chosen that, i've shown him that, so if— hasn't chosen that, i've shown him that, so if someone _ hasn't chosen that, i've shown him that, so if someone shows - hasn't chosen that, i've shown him that, so if someone shows him - hasn't chosen that, i've shown him| that, so if someone shows him how hasn't chosen that, i've shown him . that, so if someone shows him how to brush _ that, so if someone shows him how to brush his— that, so if someone shows him how to brush his teeth. — that, so if someone shows him how to brush his teeth, i— that, so if someone shows him how to brush his teeth, i feel— that, so if someone shows him how to brush his teeth, i feel it's _ that, so if someone shows him how to brush his teeth, i feel it's up - that, so if someone shows him how to brush his teeth, i feel it's up to- brush his teeth, i feel it's up to me and — brush his teeth, i feel it's up to me and his _ brush his teeth, i feel it's up to me and his dad, _ brush his teeth, i feel it's up to me and his dad, but _ brush his teeth, i feel it's up to me and his dad, but claire - brush his teeth, i feel it's up to me and his dad, but claire is i me and his dad, but claire is absotutety— me and his dad, but claire is absolutely right. _ me and his dad, but claire is absolutely right. why- me and his dad, but claire is absolutely right. why should children _ absolutely right. why should children who _ absolutely right. why should children who don't _ absolutely right. why should children who don't have - absolutely right. why should children who don't have thei absolutely right. why should - children who don't have the support network— children who don't have the support network my— children who don't have the support network my little _ children who don't have the support network my little boy _ children who don't have the support network my little boy has, - children who don't have the support network my little boy has, then - network my little boy has, then something _ network my little boy has, then something does— network my little boy has, then something does need _ network my little boy has, then something does need to - network my little boy has, then something does need to be - network my little boy has, then . something does need to be done, network my little boy has, then - something does need to be done, and then i'm _ something does need to be done, and then i'm hundred _ something does need to be done, and then i'm hundred percent— something does need to be done, and then i'm hundred percent behind - then i'm hundred percent behind that _ then i'm hundred percent behind that again, _ then i'm hundred percent behind that. again, it's— then i'm hundred percent behind that. again, it's the _ then i'm hundred percent behind that. again, it's the children - then i'm hundred percent behindi that. again, it's the children that suffer, _ that. again, it's the children that suffer, isn't— that. again, it's the children that suffer, isn't it? _ that. again, it's the children that suffer, isn't it?— suffer, isn't it? indeed, it is. cath , suffer, isn't it? indeed, it is. cathy. you're— suffer, isn't it? indeed, it is. cathy. you're a _ suffer, isn't it? indeed, it is. cathy, you're a school- suffer, isn't it? indeed, it is. | cathy, you're a school nurse. suffer, isn't it? indeed, it is. - cathy, you're a school nurse. what are you seeing when the kids come to you. irate are you seeing when the kids come to ou. ~ , ., ., . are you seeing when the kids come to ou.~ , ., ., . ., ., you. we used to do a lot of tooth-brushing _ you. we used to do a lot of tooth-brushing and - you. we used to do a lot of tooth-brushing and public. you. we used to do a lot of - tooth-brushing and public health tooth—brushing and public health work— tooth—brushing and public health work in _ tooth—brushing and public health work in school, show the kids how to brush _ work in school, show the kids how to brush their— work in school, show the kids how to brush their teeth and how to look after— brush their teeth and how to look after their— brush their teeth and how to look after their gums brush their teeth and how to look aftertheir gums and then brush their teeth and how to look after their gums and then maybe in bigger— after their gums and then maybe in bigger assessments talk about diet and health with families but since we've _ and health with families but since we've been cut, which is political, we've been cut, which is political, we can't _ we've been cut, which is political, we can't have that intervention as much _ we can't have that intervention as much as— we can't have that intervention as much as we — we can't have that intervention as much as we would like because our services _ much as we would like because our services are — much as we would like because our services are so stretched. back in the day. — services are so stretched. back in the day, used to have a school nurse in every _ the day, used to have a school nurse in every school but now you have a wide _ in every school but now you have a wide range — in every school but now you have a wide range of different schools that you have _ wide range of different schools that you have so your service is so stretched _ you have so your service is so stretched that sometimes the dental care doesn't get the priority it heeds— care doesn't get the priority it needs and now look at us. we are now talking _ needs and now look at us. we are now talking about — needs and now look at us. we are now talking about tooth—brushing in schools — talking about tooth—brushing in schools which is a good idea because we need _ schools which is a good idea because we need to— schools which is a good idea because we need to be proactive, and we need to help _ we need to be proactive, and we need to help the _ we need to be proactive, and we need to help the children get onto a healthy— to help the children get onto a healthy start however, as a profession, we are really stretched and the _ profession, we are really stretched and the authorities say that dental hygiene _ and the authorities say that dental hygiene gets lost in all of the other— hygiene gets lost in all of the other health promotions so i think it's brilliant that we are talking about — it's brilliant that we are talking about this and having a conversation, looking at trying to improve — conversation, looking at trying to improve children's dental health. how bad — improve children's dental health. how bad other teeth that you see? because it's been described, it was there by professor as a crisis in kids teeth. that's what claire stevens said. i kids teeth. that's what claire stevens said.— kids teeth. that's what claire stevens said. . ~ , ,., , stevens said. iagree. absolutely. i used to stevens said. i agree. absolutely. i used to working _ stevens said. i agree. absolutely. i used to working day _ stevens said. i agree. absolutely. i used to working day surgery - stevens said. i agree. absolutely. i used to working day surgery and i stevens said. i agree. absolutely. i | used to working day surgery and it's not uncommon to have children, having _ not uncommon to have children, having att— not uncommon to have children, having all their teeth removed, it's not. having all their teeth removed, it's not it— having all their teeth removed, it's not. it makes my heart sink because, you know. _ not. it makes my heart sink because, you know, that is going to be a painful— you know, that is going to be a painful experience for the child and the parents. so you see it from both sides. _ the parents. so you see it from both sides, health promotion, trying to prevent— sides, health promotion, trying to prevent the very thing that i can see and — prevent the very thing that i can see and you think, we need to do something — see and you think, we need to do something in the beginning and trying _ something in the beginning and trying to— something in the beginning and trying to help stop that. when the lady from — trying to help stop that. when the lady from the dental association, the professional, she said about children— the professional, she said about children having all their teeth removed, i turned to my husband and said, _ removed, i turned to my husband and said. welt, _ removed, i turned to my husband and said, well, it's common. i shrugged my shoulders. which is a real sadness — my shoulders. which is a real sadness because it's an indicative part of— sadness because it's an indicative part of someone else's health, dental— part of someone else's health, dental health. it can be a gateway to other— dental health. it can be a gateway to other people's health but we in schools _ to other people's health but we in schools are not focusing on that. are we _ schools are not focusing on that. are we talking about first teeth being taken out?— are we talking about first teeth being taken out? yes, not second. it's not unsurprising _ being taken out? yes, not second. it's not unsurprising in _ being taken out? yes, not second. it's not unsurprising in older- it's not unsurprising in older children— it's not unsurprising in older children having other extractions as wett~ _ children having other extractions as well. ~ �* ., , children having other extractions as well. ~ �* ., g , . well. we've got julie in leeds, a foster carer- _ well. we've got julie in leeds, a foster carer. good _ well. we've got julie in leeds, a foster carer. good morning, - well. we've got julie in leeds, a i foster carer. good morning, julie, foster carer. good morning, julie, what would you like to say? i’d foster carer. good morning, julie, what would you like to say? i'd like to say that — what would you like to say? i'd like to say that there _ what would you like to say? i'd like to say that there was _ what would you like to say? i'd like to say that there was a _ what would you like to say? i'd like to say that there was a lady - what would you like to say? i'd like to say that there was a lady on - to say that there was a lady on their not long ago that said its a parents responsibility to help children learn to clean their teeth but to children coming into care don't always have that support going forward. i've been fostering for 20 years and it's very important to me to put that into practice. they need to put that into practice. they need to learn to brush their teeth, have that retain but in social services now you can't challenge them to do their teeth because of social services. if they're unhappy about it they've got to accept that. it’s it they've got to accept that. it's totally disgraceful. really? - it they've got to accept that. it's totally disgraceful. really? yes, reall . totally disgraceful. really? yes, really- ihut _ totally disgraceful. really? yes, really- ihut you _ totally disgraceful. really? yes, really. but you are, _ totally disgraceful. really? yes, really. but you are, you - totally disgraceful. really? yes, really. but you are, you are - totally disgraceful. really? yes, really. but you are, you are a i totally disgraceful. really? yes, i really. but you are, you are a mum effectively. — really. but you are, you are a mum effectively. for _ really. but you are, you are a mum effectively, for a _ really. but you are, you are a mum effectively, for a while. _ really. but you are, you are a mum effectively, for a while. of- really. but you are, you are a mum effectively, for a while. of course l effectively, for a while. of course i am. what you guys do is amazing. i know a bit about that world and you are extraordinary people. but you play the role of the parents and parents, they gt, or what they should be doing, if they have the knowledge and the wherewithal, is making sure that their kids teeth are in good order.— are in good order. you're not allowed to? _ are in good order. you're not allowed to? we _ are in good order. you're not allowed to? we are - are in good order. you're not allowed to? we are not - are in good order. you're not i allowed to? we are not allowed are in good order. you're not - allowed to? we are not allowed to challenge them in any way? if they refuse you've got to accept that. that is so interesting and are you challenged? 0h, that is so interesting and are you challenged? oh, yes. kids challenge all the time! you challenged? oh, yes. kids challenge all the time!— all the time! you don't force them, out to all the time! you don't force them, you try to talk— all the time! you don't force them, you try to talk to — all the time! you don't force them, you try to talk to them, _ all the time! you don't force them, you try to talk to them, try - all the time! you don't force them, you try to talk to them, try to - all the time! you don't force them, | you try to talk to them, try to make a game of it. but with the older children, talking about 11—10 years old, they will be angry. you just have to encourage them and we aren't allowed to do that now. we cannot do anything. its neglect. you can not challenge them any more. if they say, no, i'm not my teeth, we can't do anything about that. we do talk to them and explain to them that you will have a lot of problems with your teeth if you do not look after them, you've got to brush your teeth and keep them clean. gum disease and everything, but the children don't want to listen to that because they don't understand at that age. it's when they become teenagers and then they wish they had looked after them. but when they challenge and say they don't wanna brush their teeth we are told to accept that. how bad are some of the teeth? shocking. young girls have gone three dentists in the dental hospital and have been on the trolley, they've been terrified, it's shocking teeth decay. ia teeth out? yes. how old? probably nine years old this young person. she ran out of the hospital, couldn't go through with it so it's shocking that you can't challenge children to do their teeth.— that you can't challenge children to do their teeth. cathy, come back in here. this do their teeth. cathy, come back in here- this is— do their teeth. cathy, come back in here. this is heartbreaking. - do their teeth. cathy, come back in here. this is heartbreaking. again, | here. this is heartbreaking. again, ou here. this is heartbreaking. again, you know. — here. this is heartbreaking. again, you know. it's— here. this is heartbreaking. again, you know, it's all— here. this is heartbreaking. again, you know, it's all the _ here. this is heartbreaking. again, you know, it's all the things - here. this is heartbreaking. again, you know, it's all the things we'vel you know, it's all the things we've heard _ you know, it's all the things we've heard before. it's really shocking and, _ heard before. it's really shocking and. you — heard before. it's really shocking and, you know, having anxiety over tooth—brushing and seeing a lot of children— tooth—brushing and seeing a lot of children coming into the care system with a _ children coming into the care system with a really poor dental hygiene, neglect _ with a really poor dental hygiene, neglect and so on, it's really worrying _ neglect and so on, it's really worrying because we are seeing it every— worrying because we are seeing it every day. — worrying because we are seeing it every day, people coming in worried or if it's _ every day, people coming in worried or if it's at _ every day, people coming in worried or if it's at day surgery. it makes your— or if it's at day surgery. it makes your heart— or if it's at day surgery. it makes your heart sink, doesn't it? i've been _ your heart sink, doesn't it? i've been sitting, nodding, listening to the foster— been sitting, nodding, listening to the foster carer. it's good we are talking _ the foster carer. it's good we are talking about it because when was the last— talking about it because when was the last time we talked about dental care in_ the last time we talked about dental care in schools? i think it's brilliant _ care in schools? i think it's brilliant but we need it to be put into place — brilliant but we need it to be put into place-— brilliant but we need it to be put into lace. , , ., . , into place. chris, your heart must be sinking- _ into place. chris, your heart must be sinking. you _ into place. chris, your heart must be sinking. you are _ into place. chris, your heart must be sinking. you are the _ into place. chris, your heart must be sinking. you are the head - into place. chris, your heart must be sinking. you are the head of. into place. chris, your heart must. be sinking. you are the head of the charity teeth team, are you allowed to challenge? do you challenge kids who say no? the to challenge? do you challenge kids who say no?— who say no? the answer to that is, two things — who say no? the answer to that is, two things at _ who say no? the answer to that is, two things at once, _ who say no? the answer to that is, two things at once, its _ who say no? the answer to that is, two things at once, its peer- two things at once, its peer pressure. what we find is when we go to schools, sometimes one year, sometimes earlier. we have a high parental uptake from the parents. we always have an element who do not want to participate and what we find is once the children take part, basically they feel they are missing out if they are not doing it, so then the minority will go and participate because everyone else's. genuinely what you will find is children will pressure their parents to sign the consent form so they can participate. to sign the consent form so they can artici ate. ., ,., . , . participate. how important is it and how much difference _ participate. how important is it and how much difference does - participate. how important is it and how much difference does it - participate. how important is it and how much difference does it makel participate. how important is it and | how much difference does it make if the damage has already been done? this is why focus is on early years. the focus — this is why focus is on early years. the focus is — this is why focus is on early years. the focus is on three, four and five—year—olds with the idea we can -et five—year—olds with the idea we can get in _ five—year—olds with the idea we can get in early— five—year—olds with the idea we can get in early and preventing the disease — get in early and preventing the disease before it happens. so, you know, _ disease before it happens. so, you know, brushing can be started at any a-e. know, brushing can be started at any age this _ know, brushing can be started at any age this is _ know, brushing can be started at any age. this is something we would support— age. this is something we would support at— age. this is something we would support at any age but the fact it is targeted at three, four, five—year—old is definitely the way to go— five—year—old is definitely the way to go because they hope then is that you get— to go because they hope then is that you get the — to go because they hope then is that you get the children before the decay— you get the children before the decay has started and you then give them _ decay has started and you then give them their— decay has started and you then give them their skills and motivation to maintain _ them their skills and motivation to maintain that care path. i think what _ maintain that care path. i think what you — maintain that care path. i think what you are doing today is just great _ what you are doing today is just great we — what you are doing today is just great. we need to have this conversation. it's not about, it's not a _ conversation. it's not about, it's not a problem that just dentists can solve _ not a problem that just dentists can solve in _ not a problem that just dentists can solve in isolation, it is amazing that— solve in isolation, it is amazing that we — solve in isolation, it is amazing that we have a major political party willing _ that we have a major political party willing to _ that we have a major political party willing to start that conversation and let's — willing to start that conversation and let's keep it going because what you have _ and let's keep it going because what you have brought together today is not just _ you have brought together today is not just dentists but you've you have brought together today is notjust dentists but you've brought together— notjust dentists but you've brought together parents, teachers, school nurses, _ together parents, teachers, school nurses, health visitors and we are all recognising that this is something that is not right. this is something — something that is not right. this is something that is not right. this is something that needs to be done differently and i'm really excited to see _ differently and i'm really excited to see where this conversation goes next _ to see where this conversation goes next. ~ . ., to see where this conversation goes next. ~ _, i. . to see where this conversation goes next. . _, y., . next. welcome you are so right, we have had some _ next. welcome you are so right, we have had some brilliant _ next. welcome you are so right, we j have had some brilliant contributors as well. the conversation will go next with some texts which have been coming in. as ever, they are enlightening. i will come to those very, very soon. we are talking about children's teeth. it is time for the news. a quick one here, a fascinating topic this morning, learning so much more than maths and english. i applaud any school that adopts this teaching and learning. more soon but here is the news with deena campbell. thank you, nicky. labour is celebrating a crushing victory in the rutherglen and hamilton west by—election. michael shanks secured i7,8a5 votes — more than double the total for the snp. it's being seen as a key test of labour's ability to regain seats in scotland. essex police are questioning a 36—year—old man from harlow who's been arrested in connection with an alleged plot to kidnap the itv presenter holly willoughby. the host of this morning pulled out of the show yesterday and her london home is reportedly being guarded by police. headteachers' leaders have criticised new labour plans to introduce supervised toothbrushing in schools across england. the party's pledged to rescue nhs dentistry in labour's first policy announcement ahead of its annual conference in liverpool. but some headteachers's leaders have voiced �*serious reservations' about how the policy would work. around 3,000 people have been evacuated from their homes on the spanish island of tenerife due to a wildfire. it's the same blaze that ravaged the area in august — which has flared up again due to high temperatures and strong winds. shourjo sarkar has your sport. west ham have set a new record for the longest unbeaten streak for a british side in european club competition. they won 2—1 at freiburg in the europa league — to make it 17 matches unbeaten in europe over the last ia months. england batterjoe root insists there is no need to panic following their heavy defeat to new zealand in the opening match of the cricket world cup. england lost by 9 wickets in ahmedabad, but root says the tournament has a long way to go. today, pakistan are taking on the netherlands in hyderabad. coverage of that has just got underway on 5 sports extra — you can pick that up through bbc sounds. new zealand confirmed their place in the quarter—finals of the rugby world cup with an emphatic 73—0 win over uruguay. the all blacks ran in 1! tries in lyon. and in the nfl, chicago bears ended their worst losing streak in the history of the franchise after beating washington commanders a0—20. it's chicago's first win in 15 games. today we are looking at the state of british politics.— british politics. asking is technology _ british politics. asking is technology ruining - british politics. asking is . technology ruining football? british politics. asking is - technology ruining football? are british politics. asking is _ technology ruining football? are we to obsessed — technology ruining football? are we to obsessed with _ technology ruining football? are we to obsessed with our _ technology ruining football? are we to obsessed with our phones? - technology ruining football? are we to obsessed with our phones? and| technology ruining football? are we - to obsessed with our phones? and how hot is a planet — to obsessed with our phones? and how hot is a planet going — to obsessed with our phones? and how hot is a planet going to _ to obsessed with our phones? and how hot is a planet going to get? _ to obsessed with our phones? and how hot is a planet going to get? and - to obsessed with our phones? and how hot is a planet going to get? and we i hot is a planet going to get? and we exlain hot is a planet going to get? and we earplain why — hot is a planet going to get? and we earplain why prices — hot is a planet going to get? and we explain why prices keep _ hot is a planet going to get? and we explain why prices keep going - hot is a planet going to get? and we explain why prices keep going up - hot is a planet going to get? and we | explain why prices keep going up and up. explain why prices keep going up and u, a explain why prices keep going up and up. also, did you know that space has its own _ up. also, did you know that space has its own smell? _ up. also, did you know that space has its own smell? really, - up. also, did you know that space has its own smell? really, what l up. also, did you know that space i has its own smell? really, what of? the world is — has its own smell? really, what of? the world is fast _ has its own smell? really, what of? the world is fast moving _ has its own smell? really, what of? the world is fast moving and - has its own smell? really, what of? the world is fast moving and can - has its own smell? really, what of? the world is fast moving and can be| the world is fast moving and can be confusing. 50 the world is fast moving and can be confusinu. �* , . ~ the world is fast moving and can be confusinu. �*, . ,, . welcome back. i will tell you soon what is happening at 10.00, we will be talking about surveillance and it is not because big brother returns tonight, although it is returning tonight. it's more not watching big brother but big brother watching you. i want to get straight back to somebody who we want to speak to asap, a dentist in dundee. we are talking about figures for england. good morning. talking about figures for england. good morning-— talking about figures for england. . good morning._ thank good morning. good morning. thank ou for good morning. good morning. thank you for this- — good morning. good morning. thank you for this- i— good morning. good morning. thank you for this. i bet _ good morning. good morning. thank you for this. i bet it _ good morning. good morning. thank you for this. i bet it is _ good morning. good morning. thank you for this. i bet it is pretty - good morning. good morning. thank you for this. i bet it is pretty bad - you for this. i bet it is pretty bad in your neck of the woods as well, tell us more about kids teeth. generally a similar story all over the country, but in scotland we have the country, but in scotland we have the scottish government's flagship programme, the child smile where the core element is supervised brushing. the data has shown there has been improvement in children's dental health. the indicators we have and over the years it has shown that the children's dental health has improved and dental decay has reduced. there is a need for applying the same programme across england and ireland. hour applying the same programme across england and ireland.— england and ireland. how bad is it and why has _ england and ireland. how bad is it and why has it _ england and ireland. how bad is it and why has it got _ england and ireland. how bad is it and why has it got so _ england and ireland. how bad is it and why has it got so bad? - england and ireland. how bad is it and why has it got so bad? it - england and ireland. how bad is it and why has it got so bad? it was | and why has it got so bad? it was already rrot _ and why has it got so bad? it was already not great _ and why has it got so bad? it was already not great but _ and why has it got so bad? it was already not great but the - and why has it got so bad? it was l already not great but the pressures of the pandemic and recession have complicated the process. access to dentists was reduced during the last three years and it created a massive backlog. all the prevention programmes and clinical care was slowed down and for some time, it was completely stopped. to overcome this backlog, it has become a big challenge. 0n this backlog, it has become a big challenge. on top of that, the cost of living crisis and the increase in the prices of commodities and price of materials has pressured the dental practices as well. so it has become difficult currently for dental practices to look after the patients and clear the backlog. other people to hear from so don't go anywhere, i want to hear more from you. we can speak to doctor charlotte eckhard and rosa in nottingham has got in touch. please do that if you want to do something. ijust want to do that if you want to do something. i just want to tell you more about what is happening at ten o'clock. viewers on bbc two and bbc news the latest national and international news. for listeners on bbc 5 live and bbc sounds... something that troubles a lot of people increasingly come as well. we are talking about surveillance. what is wrong with being watched? mps and peers from all sides have called for an immediate stop to the use of live facial recognition surveillance by police and private companies. people like the former brexit secretary david davis and others are among 65 politicians in the campaign group big brother watch, who back the call for the stop to the technology. live facial technology is used in large—scale public events, including recently the coronation. the home office says it is legally sound. they said it has enabled a large number of serious criminals to be caught already. but you are not a serious criminal, i trust. so how comfortable are you with it? are we all used to being watched? cameras everywhere, cctv, door bells, dash cams and body cams. what i found out recently from someone who knows their stuff, all the smart technology we have in our cars means they know, who are they? but it can be known when you opened your door, how long you opened it for, which door it was. all the stuff that is there to ease our lives is also making a lot of contentious stuff. so what is wrong with being watched? that is at 10.00. yes, great contribution from zahib in dundee. charlotte, i will be right with you. we have caroline in leicester and rosa in nottingham. good morning to you. good morning. good morning to you. good morning. good morning- _ good morning to you. good morning. good morning. caroline, _ good morning to you. good morning. good morning. caroline, just- good morning to you. good morning. good morning. caroline, just retiredl good morning. caroline, 'ust retired teacher, good morning. caroline, 'ust retired teacher. thankfi good morning. caroline, 'ust retired teacher, thank you h good morning. caroline, 'ust retired teacher, thank you for _ good morning. caroline, just retired teacher, thank you for your - good morning. caroline, just retired teacher, thank you for your service, | teacher, thank you for your service, as they say. reception children, reception children... what way you seeing in there? reception children. .. what way you seeing in there?— seeing in there? predominantly, i have worked _ seeing in there? predominantly, i have worked in _ seeing in there? predominantly, i have worked in leicestershire - seeing in there? predominantly, i. have worked in leicestershire county and leicestershire city. when i moved over from and leicestershire city. when i moved overfrom leicestershire county to leicester city, leicester city is such a diverse cultural city. city is such a diverse cultural ci . .,, , , city. the most diversity in the uk. absolutely- _ city. the most diversity in the uk. absolutely. so _ city. the most diversity in the uk. absolutely. so i _ city. the most diversity in the uk. absolutely. so i taught _ city. the most diversity in the uk. absolutely. so i taught there - city. the most diversity in the uk. absolutely. so i taught there for l city. the most diversity in the uk. j absolutely. so i taught there for a while and reception children, children coming in at the age of four. i was really shocked, i was really shocked at her lot of their children's teeth. this is something that i am very, very passionate about, the care of children. obviously that is why i am in this job. it was... it was not a one off to get children come to the classroom and they had black teeth. it wasn't a one—off for the children to have a lot of extractions. there was one child that i had who had all of her teeth extracted. children are coming into the classroom in pain, as well. i think what needs to happen is it is ok, yes, we have it in the curriculum that we teach children how to brush their teeth, which is great. but also, we need to get to the grass roots of this, which is educating parents. so parents need to be educated themselves or have a school nurse come in and actually teach the parent and have sessions with them. we have to understand a lot of these people don't speak english, it is often their second or third language. often their second or third language-— often their second or third lanaauae. �* . . ,, , language. are there cultural issues here as well? _ language. are there cultural issues here as well? yes, _ language. are there cultural issues here as well? yes, yes, _ language. are there cultural issues here as well? yes, yes, i— language. are there cultural issues here as well? yes, yes, i would - language. are there cultural issues. here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say — here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say so _ here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say so because _ here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say so because a _ here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say so because a lot - here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say so because a lot of - here as well? yes, yes, i would say. i would say so because a lot of the l i would say so because a lot of the literature that comes through from the government and education itself is also not in their parents' home languages. it happened with covid, so how on earth are the parents going to be enabled and empowered to help their children if they cannot understand what is in the literature coming to them?— understand what is in the literature comin: to them? ., coming to them? roser, good morning. and lisa as well. _ coming to them? roser, good morning. and lisa as well. you _ coming to them? roser, good morning. and lisa as well. you go _ coming to them? roser, good morning. and lisa as well. you go first. _ and lisa as well. you go first. thank you, thank you for having me. ithink— thank you, thank you for having me. i think it _ thank you, thank you for having me. i think it is _ thank you, thank you for having me. i think it is a — thank you, thank you for having me. i think it is a multifaceted issue and a _ i think it is a multifaceted issue and a very— i think it is a multifaceted issue and a very complex one. i would like to and a very complex one. i would like tqust _ and a very complex one. i would like tqust talk— and a very complex one. i would like tojust talk about and a very complex one. i would like to just talk about my perspective, if i to just talk about my perspective, if i can _ to just talk about my perspective, if i can. . . to just talk about my perspective, if i can.- thank— to just talk about my perspective, if i can.- thank you. - to just talk about my perspective, if i can.- thank you. i - to just talk about my perspective, if i can.- thank you. i have if! can. please. thank you. i have two challenging — if! can. please. thank you. i have two challenging kids, _ if! can. please. thank you. i have two challenging kids, one - if! can. please. thank you. i have two challenging kids, one is - if! can. please. thank you. i have two challenging kids, one is 17 - if! can. please. thank you. i have| two challenging kids, one is 17 and the other— two challenging kids, one is 17 and the other is— two challenging kids, one is 17 and the other is seven. from the young age. _ the other is seven. from the young age. i— the other is seven. from the young age. l have — the other is seven. from the young age, i have been drilling the importance of teeth and tooth brushing — importance of teeth and tooth brushing since they were little. believe — brushing since they were little. believe me, such hard work because when _ believe me, such hard work because when they— believe me, such hard work because when they were really tiny and dependent on me, i had to force myself— dependent on me, i had to force myself sometimes in the evening being _ myself sometimes in the evening being tired, having to do all the parental— being tired, having to do all the parental stuff, but i knew that... how _ parental stuff, but i knew that... how important is tooth—brushing. as soon as— how important is tooth—brushing. as soon as they— how important is tooth—brushing. as soon as they were a little bit older. — soon as they were a little bit older, three or four, soon as they were a little bit older, three orfour, i soon as they were a little bit older, three or four, i did sort of a shock— older, three or four, i did sort of a shock therapy. i used visuals to illustrate — a shock therapy. i used visuals to illustrate what i was talking about. because _ illustrate what i was talking about. because when we don't brush our teeth. _ because when we don't brush our teeth. it's — because when we don't brush our teeth, it's not like the next day they— teeth, it's not like the next day they will— teeth, it's not like the next day they will turn black. it is an ongoing _ they will turn black. it is an ongoing process, isn't it? so we have _ ongoing process, isn't it? so we have to — ongoing process, isn't it? so we have to be — ongoing process, isn't it? so we have to be on it twice a day, every single _ have to be on it twice a day, every single day, — have to be on it twice a day, every single day, as parents. i completely understand — single day, as parents. i completely understand what the previous caller said, understand what the previous caller said. that _ understand what the previous caller said, that there are so many parents whose _ said, that there are so many parents whose english is not first language. i am whose english is not first language. i am one _ whose english is not first language. l am one of— whose english is not first language. i am one of them, as you probably can hear~ — i am one of them, as you probably can hear. however, i i am one of them, as you probably can hear. however, lam i am one of them, as you probably can hear. however, i am sure as a parent— can hear. however, i am sure as a parent they— can hear. however, i am sure as a parent they love their children and they are _ parent they love their children and they are willing to do what is best for them — they are willing to do what is best forthem. so they are willing to do what is best for them. so if we can, if we can support— for them. so if we can, if we can support parents with having, with kids brushing their teeth in schools. _ kids brushing their teeth in schools, then these children might actually— schools, then these children might actually prompt their parents to do the same — actually prompt their parents to do the same. . actually prompt their parents to do the same. , . , the same. yes, that is right, it feeds back _ the same. yes, that is right, it feeds back to _ the same. yes, that is right, it feeds back to the _ the same. yes, that is right, it feeds back to the home. - the same. yes, that is right, it feeds back to the home. yes, | the same. yes, that is right, it - feeds back to the home. yes, because their parents probably didn't look after their teeth.— their parents probably didn't look after their teeth. probably, because the miaht after their teeth. probably, because they might rrot _ after their teeth. probably, because they might not have _ after their teeth. probably, because they might not have been _ after their teeth. probably, because they might not have been taught. i they might not have been taught. yes, _ they might not have been taught. yes. and — they might not have been taught. yes, and on it goes, and on it goes. i am really interested to know what you think about our next calls. lisa in cleethorpes and louise in glasgow. glasgow, a lot of people with dental issues there. a lot of poverty, as well. good morning, louise. .. poverty, as well. good morning, louise. ., ., . louise. good morning, how are you doin: ? louise. good morning, how are you doin:? i louise. good morning, how are you doing? i am — louise. good morning, how are you doing? i am fine. _ louise. good morning, how are you doing? i am fine. such _ louise. good morning, how are you doing? i am fine. such an - louise. good morning, how are you| doing? i am fine. such an important conversation. _ doing? i am fine. such an important conversation, this. _ doing? i am fine. such an important conversation, this. tell— doing? i am fine. such an important conversation, this. tell us _ doing? i am fine. such an important conversation, this. tell us about. conversation, this. tell us about your wee boy. conversation, this. tell us about your wee boy-— conversation, this. tell us about your wee boy. conversation, this. tell us about our wee bo . , ., , your wee boy. funny enough, he 'ust not his your wee boy. funny enough, he 'ust got his first — your wee boy. funny enough, he 'ust got his first baby fl your wee boy. funny enough, he 'ust got his first baby tooth i your wee boy. funny enough, he 'ust got his first baby tooth out. i your wee boy. funny enough, he 'ust got his first baby tooth out. he h your wee boy. funny enough, hejust got his first baby tooth out. he is - got his first baby tooth out. he is nine and i didn't realise it was actually rotten. i think a lot of theissuesis actually rotten. i think a lot of the issues is grandparents, to be honest. like your previous caller, i have been regimented in brushing the teeth and using youtube. they copy dougie and i weigh a two minutes you have to keep going. unfortunately i have to keep going. unfortunately i have to keep going. unfortunately i have to work and grandparents take over and they want to spoil the children. my two have constant suites, i've never known children have so much. and if you tell the grandparents they get the health with you. there is only so much you can do. ifind i try not with you. there is only so much you can do. i find i try not to give them sweets and i don't get to treat them sweets and i don't get to treat them because she gives them so much. also, i think brushing at school would be brilliant as well. cavities... the dentist told me as well, brush your teeth at night time, there is no point doing it. a lot of people brush their teeth in the morning which is fine but night—time, if you don't rush at night, there is no point. my two have been learning from that the last couple of days. but the wee one getting his tooth out, he is realising he has to brush his teeth all the time. but i don't think it is completely parents... i all the time. but i don't think it is completely parents. . .- all the time. but i don't think it is completely parents... i love the grandparents _ is completely parents... i love the grandparents point, _ is completely parents. .. i love the grandparents point, i— is completely parents... i love the grandparents point, i was - is completely parents... i love the grandparents point, i was thinking back to my own life. i had some fillings is a little boy. it was my grandpa and the boiled sweets are used to get all the time. can you still get them, boiled sweets, different fruit flavours?- still get them, boiled sweets, different fruit flavours? yes. we have something _ different fruit flavours? yes. we have something called _ different fruit flavours? yes. we j have something called aberdeen liquor, it's not even a sweet but it is a drink and it erodes the teeth as well. �* . as well. laughter 0k--- _ as well. laughter 0k... it makes - as well. laughterl 0k. .. it makes their as well. laughter - 0k. .. it makes their deep as well. laughter _ 0k. .. it makes their deep blue. my little one gets _ 0k. .. it makes their deep blue. my little one gets a _ 0k. .. it makes their deep blue. my little one gets a lot _ ok. .. it makes their deep blue. my little one gets a lot of— 0k. .. it makes their deep blue. my little one gets a lot of smoothies, l little one gets a lot of smoothies, and apparently the fruit in smoothies is worse because it erodes your teeth. so a lot of smoothies and you think you're doing well if them smoothies and lots of reading them smoothies and lots of reading them but it turns out... that them smoothies and lots of reading them but it turns out. . ._ them but it turns out... that is a treat them but it turns out... that is a great point. _ them but it turns out... that is a great point, charlotte _ them but it turns out... that is a great point, charlotte eckhard. l great point, charlotte eckhard. people say these people are so ignorant, they don't know what they are doing and then you hear about something like a smoothie and you think that would be ok. yes. think that would be ok. yes, constant _ think that would be ok. yes, constant smoothies, - think that would be ok. yes, constant smoothies, so - think that would be ok. yes, constant smoothies, so it. think that would be ok. yes, constant smoothies, so it is l think that would be ok. yes, - constant smoothies, so it is really hard and i don't think it's necessarilyjust bad parents. we necessarily 'ust bad parents. we will leave necessarilyjust bad parents. we will leave the grandparent point to one side, is another phone on! charlotte eckhard, dean of the faculty of dental surgery. interesting stuff? faculty of dental surgery. interestint stuff? . , . interesting stuff? absolutely, and i think it is not _ interesting stuff? absolutely, and i think it is not uncommon _ interesting stuff? absolutely, and i think it is not uncommon that - interesting stuff? absolutely, and i i think it is not uncommon that people feel if— think it is not uncommon that people feel if they— think it is not uncommon that people feel if they are having a fruit smoothie that that is a healthy drink. — smoothie that that is a healthy drink. a — smoothie that that is a healthy drink, a healthy snack. but when you emulsify— drink, a healthy snack. but when you emulsify fruits like that, you release _ emulsify fruits like that, you release all the sugars in it so a lot of— release all the sugars in it so a lot of fruits are quite acidic and so they— lot of fruits are quite acidic and so they soften the enamel on the teeth— so they soften the enamel on the teeth and — so they soften the enamel on the teeth and then following that, you have the _ teeth and then following that, you have the assault of the sugar as well for— have the assault of the sugar as well for them so there needs to be education — well for them so there needs to be education of what is a healthy thing to drink— education of what is a healthy thing to drink and on the whole, that is water~ _ to drink and on the whole, that is water. water obviously, it's readily available. — water. water obviously, it's readily available, and if we were in a position— available, and if we were in a position that more of the water within— position that more of the water within the — position that more of the water within the uk was fluoridated, that would _ within the uk was fluoridated, that would have and then enormous impact on decay~ _ would have and then enormous impact on decay~ do _ would have and then enormous impact ondeca. would have and then enormous impact on deca . ,, ,. on decay. do you think there is a correlation _ on decay. do you think there is a correlation between _ on decay. do you think there is a correlation between parts - on decay. do you think there is a correlation between parts of- on decay. do you think there is a correlation between parts of the| correlation between parts of the country where there is fluoridation? absolutely, the vulnerable, poor economic— absolutely, the vulnerable, poor economic areas, it's been shown is reducing _ economic areas, it's been shown is reducing the — economic areas, it's been shown is reducing the amount of tooth decay by about— reducing the amount of tooth decay by about 28%. in higher economic areas. _ by about 28%. in higher economic areas. it's— by about 28%. in higher economic areas. it's a— by about 28%. in higher economic areas, it's a smaller reduction of close _ areas, it's a smaller reduction of close to — areas, it's a smaller reduction of close to 18%. but it is something that is— close to 18%. but it is something that is quite simple to do and something individuals don't have to think about their drinking water all time _ think about their drinking water all time. ~ , . think about their drinking water all time. . , , , ., think about their drinking water all time. . , , ., . think about their drinking water all time. , , ., . time. why is it so bad now and was ever thus or _ time. why is it so bad now and was ever thus or is _ time. why is it so bad now and was ever thus or is it _ time. why is it so bad now and was ever thus or is it particularly - ever thus or is it particularly decayed and deteriorated, the situation? i decayed and deteriorated, the situation? ~ �* . decayed and deteriorated, the situation? ,, �* , . , decayed and deteriorated, the situation? ,, �*, . , situation? i think it's always been the case. situation? i think it's always been the case- it's _ situation? i think it's always been the case. it's been _ situation? i think it's always been the case. it's been the _ situation? i think it's always been the case. it's been the case - situation? i think it's always been the case. it's been the case for. the case. it's been the case for very— the case. it's been the case for very long — the case. it's been the case for very long time, the biggest reason for children to have general anaesthetic is due to dental decay. at the _ anaesthetic is due to dental decay. at the moment, it's compounded because — at the moment, it's compounded because there is a problem in getting — because there is a problem in getting access to dentist. so children— getting access to dentist. so children are not being seen early on when _ children are not being seen early on when they— children are not being seen early on when they have problems, it is waiting — when they have problems, it is waiting until it is an emergency and they are _ waiting until it is an emergency and they are either presenting a a&e department or through their gps and at that— department or through their gps and at that stage, they have no option but to— at that stage, they have no option but to have — at that stage, they have no option but to have teeth out. a at that stage, they have no option but to have teeth out.— but to have teeth out. a couple of texts. i but to have teeth out. a couple of texts- i went _ but to have teeth out. a couple of texts. i went to _ but to have teeth out. a couple of texts. i went to the _ but to have teeth out. a couple of texts. i went to the dentist - texts. i went to the dentist yesterday, couldn't get my children an appointment to see the dentist until... may 202a. and some coming on like this, quite a lot coming on like this. if parents cannot clean their teeth, this shouldn't be in charge of them. this is not social justice, the world has gone mad says john bain tree. there are always a scattering of text saying the world has gone mad. how long will it be before prospective parents expect someone else to do theirjob for them? don't some of today's's parents want to take responsible 8a for their offspring? another one, regarding cleaning, cleaning teeth is one of the basic parenting skills. i sit here in disbelief. another copout of lazy parents gallery in bristol says, what is james and gloucester going to say to all of their centre all of that? good morning, james.- all of their centre all of that? good morning, james. good morning, nic . good morning, james. good morning, nicky. children's _ good morning, james. good morning, nicky. children's teeth, _ good morning, james. good morning, nicky. children's teeth, where - good morning, james. good morning, nicky. children's teeth, where to - nicky. children's teeth, where to start? well. _ nicky. children's teeth, where to start? well. my _ nicky. children's teeth, where to start? well, my situation, - nicky. children's teeth, where to start? well, my situation, i - nicky. children's teeth, where to i start? well, my situation, i wanted to echo what _ start? well, my situation, i wanted to echo what the _ start? well, my situation, i wanted to echo what the lady _ start? well, my situation, i wanted to echo what the lady said - start? well, my situation, i wanted to echo what the lady said about i to echo what the lady said about social care and the hindrance, the part they play. i have a child, he is now 17 and doing really well now but he is autistic and was very challenging. the diagnosis meant he wouldn't comply with brushing his teeth and various other activities. so we had a situation where his teeth, he was going to the dentist every six months. his teeth are deteriorating and rotting. we are doing what we can. so some areas of his mouth are ok but we can't get to the back teeth and different places, so effectively... talk the back teeth and different places, so effectively. . ._ so effectively... talk me through it, what so effectively... talk me through it. what is _ so effectively... talk me through it. what is the — so effectively... talk me through it, what is the brushing - so effectively... talk me throughj it, what is the brushing exercise, what happens in your house? itithiheh it, what is the brushing exercise, what happens in your house? when he was a child he — what happens in your house? when he was a child he wouldn't _ what happens in your house? when he was a child he wouldn't open _ what happens in your house? when he was a child he wouldn't open his i was a child he wouldn't open his mouth. the dentist would tell us, you have to force him. you hold him, but one arm around him, you hold him and you put the brush through his mouth and you would do that without a child with difficulties, and eventually they get the message that you are not going to stop. they will have to comply, it is easier for them to comply. with a child that is autistic and has adhd, he has tourette and various other complexities, hejust can't tourette and various other complexities, he just can't do that and they don't understand. so what happens, at school they notice the toe there is rotting, they contact social care because they believe thatis social care because they believe that is a parental consent. so social care will come in, criticise you saying, hang on a minute his teeth are rotting. but the dentist tells me have to physically hold him, you can't do that. you can't do that. just like the lady said previously, you can't challenge him. so what do you do in that scenario? in the end, he was still getting his six monthly appointments but they couldn't get him to cooperate either. he went to a dental access in where they have lots of time, they have a5 minutes for an appointment. there is a teddy bear with teeth in and they do everything they can but even then, he still wouldn't comply, so he had to be put to sleep. we had about nine or ten teeth out. filth! and we're trying to teeth out. 0h! and we're trying to do the best we can. i know someone said lazy parents but each child is different, disability, when you bring disability into it, it makes it tricky. so luckily, his teeth grew so he didn't need a brace because the concern would be multiple teeth outcome he might need a brace. but he now brushes his teeth so regularly now that allows visit to the dentist, they couldn't believe the turnaround. it's a few years ago now, he 17, but it shows despite the parents' best, we want the best for him, what you want to look after its health in every way, we do everything we can but unfortunately, and then all social care really do is cause a hindrance and so you can't do that. actually, we need to be able to get our children and not force them that reasonably demonstrate to them that thatis reasonably demonstrate to them that that is what they have to do. it is brilliant that — that is what they have to do. it is brilliant that you _ that is what they have to do. it is brilliant that you called in because i bet many mums and dads and carers, neuro diverse kids are saying right now, thank the lord forjames in gloucester because it is not as simple as you might think. lisa, the same for you. lease in cleethorpes, hi, carry on. same for you. lease in cleethorpes, hi. carry on-— hi, carry on. hello there. my son was about _ hi, carry on. hello there. my son was about eight _ hi, carry on. hello there. my son was about eight or _ hi, carry on. hello there. my son was about eight or ten _ hi, carry on. hello there. my son was about eight or ten when i hi, carry on. hello there. my son was about eight or ten when we | hi, carry on. hello there. my son i was about eight or ten when we were going _ was about eight or ten when we were going to _ was about eight or ten when we were going to the dentist. 0ur dentist highlighted he needed to have teeth removed _ highlighted he needed to have teeth removed and he went on at us, drilled — removed and he went on at us, drilled into— removed and he went on at us, drilled into us about his teeth health— drilled into us about his teeth health but he brushed his teeth twice _ health but he brushed his teeth twice a — health but he brushed his teeth twice a day, we were massively on it. twice a day, we were massively on it we _ twice a day, we were massively on it we didn't— twice a day, we were massively on it. we didn't think anything of the water~ _ it. we didn't think anything of the water~ it— it. we didn't think anything of the water. it was only after he tried to clean _ water. it was only after he tried to clean his— water. it was only after he tried to clean his teeth and caused a lot of trauma _ clean his teeth and caused a lot of trauma because he tried to put two adult _ trauma because he tried to put two adult hands in my child's tiny mouth — adult hands in my child's tiny mouth at— adult hands in my child's tiny mouth. at community, they said the damage _ mouth. at community, they said the damage was caused by antibiotics he had had _ damage was caused by antibiotics he had had for— damage was caused by antibiotics he had had for about a three year period — had had for about a three year period every other month for ear infections — period every other month for ear infections. it was never highlighted to us— infections. it was never highlighted to us that _ infections. it was never highlighted to us that antibiotics can cause damage — to us that antibiotics can cause damage to the development of children's teeth. that community dentist— children's teeth. that community dentist was amazing to us. she said she was— dentist was amazing to us. she said she was going to knock him out, she told him _ she was going to knock him out, she told him the — she was going to knock him out, she told him the work and what she was going _ told him the work and what she was going to _ told him the work and what she was going to do — told him the work and what she was going to do. but even now, he still has trauma — going to do. but even now, he still has trauma when being taken to a dentist _ has trauma when being taken to a dentist. we were there recently, we've _ dentist. we were there recently, we've managed to get in with one luckily _ we've managed to get in with one luckily he — we've managed to get in with one luckily. he still had a baby tooth and she — luckily. he still had a baby tooth and she said, we are going to remove it because _ and she said, we are going to remove it because it— and she said, we are going to remove it because it is impacting the other teeth— it because it is impacting the other teeth and — it because it is impacting the other teeth and he freaked, absolutely freaked — teeth and he freaked, absolutely freaked. that is 5—7 years on from that _ freaked. that is 5—7 years on from that but — freaked. that is 5—7 years on from that. but then he has been more —— there _ that. but then he has been more —— there needs — that. but then he has been more —— there needs to be more education around _ there needs to be more education around things like antibiotics and dental— around things like antibiotics and dental health. me and my husband we thought— dental health. me and my husband we thought we _ dental health. me and my husband we thought we were quite with it, we both work. — thought we were quite with it, we both work, we look at the research staff but _ both work, we look at the research staff but we weren't aware of what antibiotics — staff but we weren't aware of what antibiotics can do and apparently it is a common side effect but it wasn't — is a common side effect but it wasn't highlighted.— wasn't highlighted. charlotte eckhard, coming _ wasn't highlighted. charlotte eckhard, coming here. i wasn't highlighted. charlotte| eckhard, coming here. neuro wasn't highlighted. charlotte - eckhard, coming here. neuro diverse kids, kids who are terrified of the dentist and also the point they are about antibiotics, doctor charlotte eckhard. . , ~' about antibiotics, doctor charlotte eckhard. , ,, , eckhard. absolutely, i think it is im tortant eckhard. absolutely, i think it is important we — eckhard. absolutely, i think it is important we don't _ eckhard. absolutely, i think it is important we don't lay - eckhard. absolutely, i think it is important we don't lay the i eckhard. absolutely, i think it is| important we don't lay the blame eckhard. absolutely, i think it is i important we don't lay the blame at the feet of parents. i think it's important that we support and educate. it is inevitable that different people are going to have to manage different situations at home and certainly when you are managing children who are neuro diverse or have special needs, then it is more and more important that they have their support that they require. the community dental services are those who look after them from cradle to grave and they don't have the funding. they don't have the access to general anaesthetics that they need to manage these patients that have huge anxiety issues. but it is important that there is education there to help them and to help support them as they go through, so that they can try and avoid getting into these sorts of situations. i think the point of view about antibiotics, obviously of a child needs antibiotics then they have to have them. some antibiotics do have effects on dentition that is developing and when the teeth come through, they are discoloured and they have taken of the enamel. that is something that can be managed. it can be managed either by looking for different antibiotics that can do a similarjob or it can be managed by dentists later on to disguise the problem that they have. but it is education and is giving access to these children. and if there is a tooth—brushing scheme at school, and i know it means that you've got to look at how schools are run and this is yet another thing that teachers are having to take on, it's just so important. i think your caller said early on, it's not only you are educating the child in that situation, they are then going home and are helping to educate the family. it is notjust about tooth—brushing but diet and that has effect on lots of different medical problems that could potentially come about with obesity, diabetes etc are. so education and giving access is the important thing. tbs, are. so education and giving access is the important thing.— is the important thing. a great text from john. basically _ is the important thing. a great text from john. basically saying, - is the important thing. a great text from john. basically saying, i've i from john. basically saying, i've believe promoting good practice is essential, notjust brushing but how to brush and how long to brush. i had to do it from a young age, whether that is a teacher or not is another topic. thank you so much, john. viewers on bbc two and bbc news will be leaving us now. live from london... this is bbc news. an emphatic win for labour in the rutherglen and hamilton west by—election. rutherglen and hamilton west by-election-— rutherglen and hamilton west by-election. rutherglen and hamilton west b -election. ., . . by-election. people move away re'ect the tolitics by-election. people move away re'ect the petities ef— by-election. people move away re'ect the politics of incompetence i by-election. people move away re'ect the politics of incompetence and i the politics of incompetence and express a desire for a fresh start, a desire for change. the express a desire for a fresh start, a desire for change.— express a desire for a fresh start, a desire for change. the result will be welcome _ a desire for change. the result will be welcome to _ a desire for change. the result will be welcome to labour— a desire for change. the result will be welcome to labour leader i a desire for change. the result will be welcome to labour leader sir i a desire for change. the result will. be welcome to labour leader sir keir starmer who is due in the constituency in the next hour. we all will be hoping to hearfrom him live. wilco have collapsed into administration, the final stores prepared to shut for the last time. welcome. this hour, we are focusing on that by—election in scotland and bringing you continued coverage on the story with guests and analysis from our correspondence. the labour leader sir keir starmer has called this victory in this by—election seismic result for the party. they secure twice the number of votes of the snp who had held the seat. the labour candidate held just 18,000 votes, more than double for the smb

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