what is on the show.— programme. let us take a look at what is on the show. nothing could have prepared _ what is on the show. nothing could have prepared me _ what is on the show. nothing could have prepared me for— what is on the show. nothing could have prepared me for the - what is on the show. nothing could have prepared me for the response she gave me next. mum, these bad men have me, help me, help me! fix, have me, help me, help me! a daughter called her mother to say she had been kidnapped but she had not, hervoice she had been kidnapped but she had not, her voice had been included by artificial intelligence and it was a scheme. as ai takes on business, it is already a multi—billion pound battle. i will discuss all of that with these two. a man who shows the tricks of the trade and what can consumers do about it? we will ask errant from the consumer federation of america. plus the inside view of the green transition from one of its leaders, the boss of the spanish giantjoins me and we will ask if business can't save the planet from climate change. wherever you arejonny may climate change. wherever you are jonny may from around the world, hello and a warm welcome to the show. fraud and scams, they are nothing new but with each technological change, the fraudsters are quick to pounds on new possibilities. we have all had e—mails and text messages trying to scam as out of cash by people pretending to be someone we know work with a time—limited offer that is too good to miss or maybe they are pretending to be a tax official or a utility which asks as to transfer money urgently to them. now with artificial intelligence promising to speed up the world of business, the fraudsters are already taking advantage of these new possibilities. in april, jennifer, a mother in arizona received a phone call from an unknown number. she thought it might be her doctor but instead she heard the voice of her 15—year—old daughter, breanna. she told the rest of the tory to the us senate. it told the rest of the tory to the us senate. . , �* ., ., told the rest of the tory to the us senate. ., �* ., ., , , ., senate. it was breanna sobbing and c in: , senate. it was breanna sobbing and crying. saying. _ senate. it was breanna sobbing and crying. saying. mum! _ senate. it was breanna sobbing and crying, saying, mum! at _ senate. it was breanna sobbing and crying, saying, mum! at first - senate. it was breanna sobbing and crying, saying, mum! at first i - crying, saying, mum! at firsti thought nothing of it and after what happened. she continued, i messed up, sobbing and crying continuously. i asked her, what happened? suddenly a man's voice barked at her, lay down and put your head down. i started to panic. my concern is littered as i demanded to know what was going on but nothing could have prepared me for her response she gave me. mum, these bad men have me, help me, help me! the phone was taken from her. a man took the call over. i have your daughter, if you call anybody, over. i have your daughter, if you callanybody, i over. i have your daughter, if you call anybody, i will pop her body for of drugs, have my way with her and drop her body in mexico. they wanted $50,000 in cash to be transported to my daughter. if i didn't have all that money, we would both be dead. i was shocked. at that point in time, the second mum came back to me and she had killed my husband who find breanna in bed. i called the police and they said it was a prank call, that it happens often and there was nothing to be done so i turned to the community and the responses were overwhelming. friends and neighbours came out with their stories, friends and neighbours came out with theirstories, kidnapping phone their stories, kidnapping phone calls theirstories, kidnapping phone calls coming from their children's phones, bags of money being driven to mexico and even voices of young children who do not have funds. jennifer's story, dramatic example of the new possibilities ai is giving criminals to scam us. in the us alone, there was a 30% jump in fraud last year to almost $9 billion. 2.6 billion of that was a so—called impostor scams, fraudsters are pretending to be people or businesses and successfully getting billions for their dirty work. but we are also spending a lot of tackle the threat. $6.5 billion was spent on detecting ai fraud last year, global estimate by research company who put it that will rise to $10 billion a year by 2027. one of those leading the charge is the massive cybersecurity company, checkpoint and my first guest is its chief security officer. a pleasure having you on the show, and let us start with this because fraud is obviously nothing new but i am just wondering how big of a game changer is al when it comes to fraud? it is how big of a game changer is al when it comes to fraud?— it comes to fraud? it is lowering the bar for— it comes to fraud? it is lowering the bar for scammers. - it comes to fraud? it is lowering the bar for scammers. both - it comes to fraud? it is lowering | the bar for scammers. both have it comes to fraud? it is lowering - the bar for scammers. both have the the barfor scammers. both have the ability to use ai the barfor scammers. both have the ability to use al to automatically create convincing targeted e—mails or scams as well as creating zero malware code that can be vector for ransomware. it is creating college—level inner speaking actors in countries that don't speak english. in countries that don't speak en . lish. ~ , in countries that don't speak enalish. ~ , ., in countries that don't speak enalish. ~ , . g �*, english. we 'ust heard jennifer's story about — english. we just heard jennifer's story about a — english. we just heard jennifer's story about a fake _ english. we just heard jennifer's story about a fake phone - english. we just heard jennifer's story about a fake phone call- english. we just heard jennifer's i story about a fake phone call from her daughter. how easy is it? it can take as little _ her daughter. how easy is it? it can take as little as _ her daughter. how easy is it? it can take as little as ten _ her daughter. how easy is it? it can take as little as ten minutes - her daughter. how easy is it? it can take as little as ten minutes to - take as little as ten minutes to clone a video voice from social media. the tools are free, easy—to—use and hackers or even using their own tools that are on the dark web that don't have the watermarking or the guardrails that are trying to vent this kind of misuse. i are trying to vent this kind of misuse. ~' ., , are trying to vent this kind of misuse. ~ ., , , ., . misuse. i know my producer asked you to look at my — misuse. i know my producer asked you to look at my social— misuse. i know my producer asked you to look at my social media _ misuse. i know my producer asked you to look at my social media to - misuse. i know my producer asked you to look at my social media to see - to look at my social media to see what you could do and i think you have an audio clip and a video clip. let us start with what you came up with the audio clip. hi. let us start with what you came up with the audio clip.— let us start with what you came up with the audio clip. hi, honey, i am in paris and — with the audio clip. hi, honey, i am in paris and my _ with the audio clip. hi, honey, i am in paris and my money _ with the audio clip. hi, honey, i am in paris and my money and - with the audio clip. hi, honey, i am in paris and my money and phone l with the audio clip. hi, honey, i am . in paris and my money and phone were stolen. i need money imagery. iwill send you my colleague's paypal information. thank you very much, i love you and i will call you later. that is pretty scary stuff! that was m voice. that is pretty scary stuff! that was my voice- we _ that is pretty scary stuff! that was my voice. we live _ that is pretty scary stuff! that was my voice. we live in _ that is pretty scary stuff! that was my voice. we live in a _ that is pretty scary stuff! that was my voice. we live in a post-real i my voice. we live in a post—real society yes, absolutely, it is your voice and if you call your mother with that voice, it also your mother. , , ., with that voice, it also your mother-— with that voice, it also your mother. , ., , . ., ., mother. just to be clear, that was 'ust from mother. just to be clear, that was just from the _ mother. just to be clear, that was just from the stuff _ mother. just to be clear, that was just from the stuff available - mother. just to be clear, that was just from the stuff available that i j just from the stuff available that i had put out or shared on social media so do people need to change what they put out on social media? are we likely to stop sharing things if this opens is all up for scams? i think that cat is out of the bag. but we need to think about is what we share publicly. the risk to you getting scammed or your house being broken into increases with posts when you say you're on vacation and scammers know your dog's name and your grandmother's name. do not over shared with the other thing is, have a safe word that only you and your family know or that you and your business colleagues use to validate transactions and potential threats to your family. transactions and potential threats to your family-— to your family. that was scary enou:h to your family. that was scary enough just — to your family. that was scary enough just listen _ to your family. that was scary enough just listen to - to your family. that was scary enough just listen to the - to your family. that was scary| enough just listen to the audio to your family. that was scary - enough just listen to the audio but you have also put a fake video of me together? what did you come up with? morocco is saving devastating consequences of the recent earthquake. support them now. we used earthquake. support them now. - used chatgpt and other tools to take your voice clone and create a video for the moroccan earthquake, asking for the moroccan earthquake, asking for money and your collie into a number that the scammers have so it is actually trivial, it took us about 1015 minutes to do that. it begs the question, what do people do about this cosmic right now, the ai tools can only take a frontal face picture and animate it so if you think you are talking to an artificial intelligence person, as them to turn around and shoot their bald spot, the back of their head,. good tip! it is notjust phone calls because i am wondering, texts, e—mails and letters, can they be just as powerful? yes e-mails and letters, can they be just as powerful?— just as powerful? yes and it is easier to _ just as powerful? yes and it is easier to create _ just as powerful? yes and it is easier to create with - just as powerful? yes and it is easier to create with scripting | easier to create with scripting chatgpt so thousands of e—mails can be created and sent out from pennies and only if you people have to click on those involved with those scams for it to be profitable for the scammers. for it to be profitable for the scammers-— for it to be profitable for the scammers. ~ . ., ., ., scammers. we heard a mother who received a fake _ scammers. we heard a mother who received a fake kidnap _ scammers. we heard a mother who received a fake kidnap call - scammers. we heard a mother who received a fake kidnap call from - scammers. we heard a mother whoj received a fake kidnap call from her daughter and she said that the police said to her that no law had been broken because the scammers didn't actually get any money but it makes you wonder, does there need to be a change in the law to make this kind of impersonation illegal? yes. kind of impersonation illegal? yes, we do. kind of impersonation illegal? yes, we do- here _ kind of impersonation illegal? yes, we do- here in _ kind of impersonation illegal? yes, we do. here in the _ kind of impersonation illegal? yes, we do. here in the us _ kind of impersonation illegal? yes, we do. here in the us we - kind of impersonation illegal? yes we do. here in the us we have seen at least six scams where the hackers have made off with money from those type of kidnapping scams and we have also seen company scammed for money. we recently saw the mgm hack that was a call into the help desk with potentially a voice clone.- potentially a voice clone. again, not 'ust potentially a voice clone. again, not just families _ potentially a voice clone. again, not just families or _ potentially a voice clone. again, notjust families or individuals, l notjust families or individuals, businesses are being targeted, fraudsters pretending to be colleagues or other companies scamming money?— colleagues or other companies scamming money? colleagues or other companies scammin: mone ? , ., , scamming money? yes, we are seeing it multile scamming money? yes, we are seeing it multiple times _ scamming money? yes, we are seeing it multiple times in _ scamming money? yes, we are seeing it multiple times in the _ scamming money? yes, we are seeing it multiple times in the scams - scamming money? yes, we are seeing it multiple times in the scams are - it multiple times in the scams are increasing. we are seeing calls into the help desk people are impersonating employees and we are seeing money transfers from people that are calling into their cfo to have money transferred so absolutely, the scammers are winning in these games up a lot of the times when we talk about al, it is the worry about, it is coming for your job, but with this in some sort of strange way, this kind of feels like ai strange way, this kind of feels like a! created jobs, eitherfor strange way, this kind of feels like a! created jobs, either for the ai created jobs, either for the fraudsters using ai ai created jobs, either for the fraudsters using al or for the people, the experts that we now need to tackle these scams. absolutely, it is creating more scammers on the offence and here at checkpoint we are hiring more people for defence. you have to bring ai checkpoint we are hiring more people for defence. you have to bring al to an ai for defence. you have to bring al to an a! fight or you will be a statistic. an ai fight or you will be a statistic.— an ai fight or you will be a statistic. . , ~ , statistic. can companies like yours, can ou statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep _ statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep up — statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep up with _ statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep up with all _ statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep up with all of - statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep up with all of this - statistic. can companies like yours, can you keep up with all of this or l can you keep up with all of this or do you need to keep tweaking things to get one step ahead? we do you need to keep tweaking things to get one step ahead?— to get one step ahead? we are sta in: to get one step ahead? we are staying one — to get one step ahead? we are staying one step _ to get one step ahead? we are staying one step ahead - to get one step ahead? we are staying one step ahead and - to get one step ahead? we are| staying one step ahead and that to get one step ahead? we are i staying one step ahead and that is what checkpoint is about with our prevention mantra but there are new scams everyday, new zero day is everyday so we have to be extremely reactive and things like our texting customers across the world in a few seconds from a new scams everyday. b end on this because ai is certainly end on this because a! is certainly in the headlines but this is where we are now, i can't even think of where is it going to be in five years' time? it where is it going to be in five years' time?— where is it going to be in five years' time? it is crazy because this is the _ years' time? it is crazy because this is the fastest _ years' time? it is crazy because this is the fastest evolving - this is the fastest evolving technology that the human race has ever evolved or dealt with so just since november, we have over 100 million users with chatgpt and i1 of the pessimistic ones. i think the single arty of when a! actually gains a consciousness is coming sooner than we think. it may be an arnold schwarzenegger future for us humans. ~ ., ., , arnold schwarzenegger future for us humans. ., ., , arnold schwarzenegger future for us humans. ., ., ., humans. well, on that scary point, a real pleasure — humans. well, on that scary point, a real pleasure having _ humans. well, on that scary point, a real pleasure having you _ humans. well, on that scary point, a real pleasure having you on - humans. well, on that scary point, a real pleasure having you on the - real pleasure having you on the show, thanks for everything and we will talk to you soon. titers; show, thanks for everything and we will talk to you soon. very welcome and i will talk to you soon. very welcome and i hope — will talk to you soon. very welcome and i hope some — will talk to you soon. very welcome and i hope some of— will talk to you soon. very welcome and i hope some of my _ will talk to you soon. very welcome and i hope some of my ideas - will talk to you soon. very welcome and i hope some of my ideas are i and i hope some of my ideas are going to keep our viewers say. what going to keep our viewers say. what can consumers _ going to keep our viewers say. what can consumers do _ going to keep our viewers say. what can consumers do to _ going to keep our viewers say. what can consumers do to protect themselves in the face of this new wave of fraudulent threat? my next guest has been on the show before, she is the director of consumer protection at the consumer federation of america. welcome back to the show, always a pleasure having you with us and let me start with this, i want to know how common is this in terms of the complaints coming into you because i am wondering just how big are these new ai wondering just how big are these new a! scams cosmic this is becoming ai scams cosmic this is becoming very common. ai scams cosmic this is becoming very common-— very common. last year the us federal trade _ very common. last year the us federal trade commission - very common. last year the us - federal trade commission reported that impostor scams where the top type of fraud reported to the ftc so we know that this method of impersonating somebody else using someone else's likeness, whether a family member, a friend, a government agency, is extreme effective and we also can safely assume that something that is effective, that takes money away from people quickly, if a! can be used to speed up the process, i think it is safe to assume that scammers will continue to rely on this and that this type of scam is only going to grow. also, this is happening all over the world, not just in the us. the uk recently released a report that was based on a survey to consumers 18 to sa and 16% of them reported they had been targeted by an ai generated scam. if you months ago, chinese authorities arrested an individual who was able to scam someone out of $600,000 in one instance. 50 to scam someone out of $600,000 in one instance-— one instance. so on that point, what is our one instance. so on that point, what is your advice. _ one instance. so on that point, what is your advice, what _ one instance. so on that point, what is your advice, what is _ one instance. so on that point, what is your advice, what is the _ one instance. so on that point, what is your advice, what is the advice - is your advice, what is the advice to consumers?— is your advice, what is the advice to consumers? . ., , to consumers? there are a few things that consumers _ to consumers? there are a few things that consumers can _ to consumers? there are a few things that consumers can do. _ to consumers? there are a few things that consumers can do. the _ to consumers? there are a few things that consumers can do. the number. that consumers can do. the number one thing that consumers can do is to educate themselves, learn more about this and keep it up of mind. not only educate yourself, find out more about it but tell your friends and family that this is probably a two common topic within my family, they are tired of hearing me talking about scams. another thing to remember is that the scammers are the most effective when they can create a sense of urgency so when someone has you on the phone, if they have you on a video call and they have you on a video call and they are saying it reports to a family member, it can be scary and is often very urgent so that is the time when it is most critical to exercising scepticism. try to verify, is this the person they say they are. if it is a family member, send them a text and say, is this really you, where are you? you can try to call 9/11, ask someone in the room with you, really try to exercise scepticism when you feel that really sense of urgency. i have 'ust that really sense of urgency. i have just experienced _ that really sense of urgency. i have just experienced a _ that really sense of urgency. i have just experienced a deep _ that really sense of urgency. i have just experienced a deep fake - that really sense of urgency. i have just experienced a deep fake of- just experienced a deep fake of myself, it is scary stuff and it was just taken of social media so i am just taken of social media so i am just wondering, do you think people need to rethink what they share on social media?— social media? yes, i think it is important _ social media? yes, i think it is important to — social media? yes, i think it is important to exercise - social media? yes, i think it is important to exercise a - social media? yes, i think it is important to exercise a lot - social media? yes, i think it is important to exercise a lot of. important to exercise a lot of caution when you are sharing something, especially because it can be used in ways that are much bigger thanjust an individual. it be used in ways that are much bigger than just an individual. it could be used in ways that are much bigger thanjust an individual. it could be used to create an entire marketplace disruption when someone could create a video of a natural disaster so as people are reassuring these videos, something seems really unlikely or a huge shock, try to exercise scepticism, try to verify it with a different source before you immediately share it with someone else. fir immediately share it with someone else. ., ., , , else. or the regulations keeping up or auoin else. or the regulations keeping up or going fast _ else. or the regulations keeping up or going fast enough _ else. or the regulations keeping up or going fast enough or— else. or the regulations keeping up or going fast enough or is _ else. or the regulations keeping up or going fast enough or is al - else. or the regulations keeping up or going fast enough or is al just i or going fast enough or is a! just to advanced already? i or going fast enough or is al 'ust to advanced already?i to advanced already? i think it is impossible _ to advanced already? i think it is impossible to — to advanced already? i think it is impossible to expect _ to advanced already? i think it is impossible to expect that - to advanced already? i think it is impossible to expect that any i impossible to expect that any government regulator will be able to act as quickly as we have seen a! technology moving but we don't have to create an entirely new framework to create an entirely new framework to address this conduct. many times the way a! is being used and what is the way a! is being used and what is the most problematic is to commit conduct that is already illegal. disk nation, fraud, anti—competitive conduct, so regulars can use their existing tools to combat all of this illegal conduct with tools they already have. the us presidentjoe biden issued an ai blueprint bill of rights last yearfor biden issued an ai blueprint bill of rights last year for companies to use as guidance when they are developing ai technology in a way that will prevent the american public against things like data privacy, algorithms that are being used in dissemination and things like that. , ., used in dissemination and things like that. , . ., like that. next year we have elections — like that. next year we have elections where _ like that. next year we have elections where you - like that. next year we have elections where you are - like that. next year we have elections where you are in l like that. next year we have l elections where you are in the like that. next year we have - elections where you are in the us and here in the uk, india, nigeria, spain, just to name a few, how worried should we be? titers; spain, just to name a few, how worried should we be? very worried. i think we have _ worried should we be? very worried. i think we have already _ worried should we be? very worried. i think we have already seen - worried should we be? very worried. i think we have already seen deep i i think we have already seen deep fakes being used in the context of elections to spread. is, full information. consumers should be very careful about this and very aware that it is going to increase significantly to try to promote a certain party or candidate, to try to undermine parties or candidates, consumers should be on high alert when they are seeing videos being used in play your ads or campaigns. as the consumer federation, what is it that you would like to see being done about all of this?— it that you would like to see being done about all of this? there are a few thins done about all of this? there are a few things we _ done about all of this? there are a few things we would _ done about all of this? there are a few things we would like _ done about all of this? there are a few things we would like to - done about all of this? there are a few things we would like to see, . done about all of this? there are a l few things we would like to see, we talked before about the importance of consumer education and i think thatis of consumer education and i think that is absolutely crucial but education doesn't only happen just for consumers, it should also be happening for businesses to educate their employees about the use of ai scams and fraud. ai their employees about the use of ai scams and fraud. a! can be used to impersonate your boss, your co—worker, someone outside your company telling you that you need to do something quite quickly so education should be used by businesses, promoted by organisations to make sure that people are fully aware of the way that this can be used to scam people at different levels. should also be emphasising education from smaller local outlets like consumer affairs organisations. police departments, are often the companies and agencies that hear directly from consumers about these problems so the more we can spread the word about effective tools to combat it, ways to get peoples money back, the better off we will all be.— we will all be. how concerning is all of this, _ we will all be. how concerning is all of this, or _ we will all be. how concerning is all of this, or is _ we will all be. how concerning is all of this, or is there _ we will all be. how concerning is all of this, or is there a - we will all be. how concerning is all of this, or is there a lot - we will all be. how concerning is all of this, or is there a lot more j all of this, or is there a lot more fear of technology than actual threat? i fear of technology than actual threat? ~ , , , threat? i think this is very concerning. _ threat? i think this is very concerning. ai _ threat? i think this is very concerning. ai could - threat? i think this is very concerning. ai could be i threat? i think this is very i concerning. ai could be used threat? i think this is very - concerning. ai could be used in threat? i think this is very _ concerning. ai could be used in ways to benefit people, it could be used responsibly and in ways that adhere to law but unfortunately that is not always what we are seeing and so the alarm that is being created by the proliferation of deep fakes, discriminatory decision making algorithms and things like that is very real. algorithms and things like that is ve real. , ., algorithms and things like that is ve real. , ., very real. does there need to be a law change _ very real. does there need to be a law change here _ very real. does there need to be a law change here because - very real. does there need to be a law change here because we - very real. does there need to be a law change here because we have| law change here because we have heard from one mother who received a fake kidnap call from her daughter, talked to the police, the police if they cannot do anything about it because no money was handed over, but itjust because no money was handed over, but it just feels because no money was handed over, but itjust feels wrong in some ways. it but it 'ust feels wrong in some wa s. ., , ., ., ., ., ways. it does feel wrong and one of the biggest — ways. it does feel wrong and one of the biggest problems _ ways. it does feel wrong and one of the biggest problems with - ways. it does feel wrong and one of the biggest problems with frauds i ways. it does feel wrong and one of i the biggest problems with frauds and scams notjust an ai the biggest problems with frauds and scams notjust an a! but generally is that it can be really difficult for someone to get their money back. that is an extremely effective tool used by scammers, they take someone's money from them and they are gone. someone's money from them and they are one. , ., ., , ., ., are gone. great to see you again, thanks for— are gone. great to see you again, thanks for your — are gone. great to see you again, thanks for your time _ are gone. great to see you again, thanks for your time and - are gone. great to see you again, thanks for your time and we - are gone. great to see you again, thanks for your time and we will l thanks for your time and we will talk to you again soon. moving now from the threat of ai talk to you again soon. moving now from the threat of al to the threat of the climate crisis. in the threat of the climate crisis. in the last few weeks, the battle against man—made global warming was taken on further by the united nations at the un climate ambition summit, a handful of businesses similar their green transition plans and among them, the big boss is one of the world largest energy companies. let me start with this, you havejust companies. let me start with this, you have just returned from the united nations climate ambition summit and leader of the un warned of the gates of hell but i am wondering, is the world doing enough to hit the zero carbon targets? the answer is. — to hit the zero carbon targets? the answer is. let _ to hit the zero carbon targets? iia: answer is, let me to hit the zero carbon targets? "iia: answer is, let me be to hit the zero carbon targets? i““i2 answer is, let me be positive to hit the zero carbon targets? ii2 answer is, let me be positive and negative. the answer straightforward is no. the positive answer is, but we are moving. 20 years ago, most people denied that the problem existed. now the problem is, that there are people who are saying, recognising the problem but they're asking for more time. my point is, the time is over, we need to do it now. ., _, , the time is over, we need to do it now. ., ,._ , the time is over, we need to do it now. ., , , ., now. your company has invested more than $100 billion — now. your company has invested more than $100 billion into _ now. your company has invested more than $100 billion into green _ now. your company has invested more than $100 billion into green energy, i than $100 billion into green energy, quite a sum, but the critics say that the storage just isn't there yet. we saw with the war in ukraine that we just were not ready for renewables to replace fossil fuels but given that very large investment you have made, how is that possible? well, in the case of that, that is not true. when we make our initial strategic plans 20 use years back when ijoined the company, part of changing the colour from blue to green and to try to double the company in five years, we multiply the company by eight times, we have the company by eight times, we have the best —— invested millions but we had only transformed all or most of our hydroelectric power plant in spain. now we already have storage capacity in spain and portugal for more than 100 million kilos of powers. that is already enough capacity for powering to 3 million electric. we are investing in batteries. we have the largest wind farm in britain, we are already doing large—scale batteries. we are putting batteries in and we are putting batteries in and we are putting batteries in australia but in terms of larger storage, i think in terms of larger storage, i think in the iberian peninsula, we are investing a lot of money at this moment, in the last 20 years, and our existing hydroelectric plant, using it as a motor and our existing hydroelectric plant, using it as a motorand pump our existing hydroelectric plant, using it as a motor and pump using it as a generator.— it as a generator. recently, the uk had an offshore _ it as a generator. recently, the uk had an offshore wind _ it as a generator. recently, the uk had an offshore wind power - it as a generator. recently, the uk had an offshore wind power option| it as a generator. recently, the uk i had an offshore wind power option -- had an offshore wind power option —— my auction but no bidders came forward. you own scottishpower so what went wrong? the forward. you own scottishpower so what went wrong?— what went wrong? the first thing, the uk already — what went wrong? the first thing, the uk already has _ what went wrong? the first thing, the uk already has a _ what went wrong? the first thing, the uk already has a unique - the uk already has a unique opportunity. it is a country with deep waters which are very convenient. 30 or 50 minutes metres deep which is very good. the distance from the offshore pump is not like in other places which is 100 kilometres, it is more convenient. i think that is the reason why the country has already been more offshore than other countries. what they have been making offshore base on the previous price and i think that was fine, they have been benefiting from the improvements in the technology. that is fine. things changed and it is not any longer, there is still costing $200 return in $1000 per tonne. the prices multiplied by two or three. the prices and the conductors increased tremendously. the labour costs increased because of the inflation and a huge manner and the rate of interest has already moved from 1% to 5% and the condition with our banks are already fixed for providing the financial help is more costly. then the price cannot be any longer diminishing. let me end on this, china leads the world in combined offshore wind power. how do other countries compare and what do they need to do in order to compete with china? i feel the first thing i can tell you is that we have not much dependency on china. i think we need already a huge investment and we need the supply chains. the supply chains in the case of europe, we have a good supply chain for hydroelectric. we have a good supply chain for wind. in the last speech to the state of the union, he commented on wind technologies. europe has been leading this technology and we are very good company making that one but unfortunately in solar we have not made much and i think the chinese has already got over 90% of the world market. chinese has already got over 9096 of the world market.— the world market. thanks for your time and we _ the world market. thanks for your time and we will _ the world market. thanks for your time and we will talk _ the world market. thanks for your time and we will talk to _ the world market. thanks for your time and we will talk to you - the world market. thanks for yourj time and we will talk to you since. thank you very much for your always intelligent questions. that thank you very much for your always intelligent questions.— intelligent questions. that is it for this week, _ intelligent questions. that is it for this week, i _ intelligent questions. that is it for this week, i hope _ intelligent questions. that is it for this week, i hope you - intelligent questions. that is it i for this week, i hope you enjoyed it. you can keep up with the latest on the bbc website and you can follow me on x. you can get me on the bbc points for watching, i will see goodbye. hello. whilst some of you will stay dry and bright, for others it will be quite a soggy saturday as we go through into the afternoon. it's down to these weather fronts approaching from the south—west. outbreaks of rain particularly from the south of this country. the south of england into the channel islands staying dry with some breaks in the cloud. in between, rain extensive and heavy through to northern ireland. north of wales, north—west england and turning wetter in south—west scotland. 45 mph winds around the coast. a warmish day of the south—east, 20—21 c. evening and overnight, rain sweeping north across scotland before clearer skies later but it turns wetter in parts of northern england, north and west wales into tomorrow morning. 12—16 degrees, a warm and humid start to sunday. the further south you are there will be mist and murk. in the midlands and lincolnshire it would turn cloudier damp or later but towards the south and east a few sunny outbreaks, 23, 2a celsius, pretty warm for the first day of october. into monday, high pressure across europe, they will be getting some unusual warmth there but we are on the edge of it and that will still allow further weather fronts to push their way in. the winds won't be particularly strong away from scotland. but through parts of western wales we will see thundery showers. warm and humid in the south—east corner. a fresh feel in the north especially with that wind across northern scotland. into next week, we'll see some sunshine, a fresh a few days to come on tuesday and wednesday but expect some rain now and again especially in the north and the west. take care. live from london. this is bbc news. more than 100,000 ethnic armenians have now fled nagorno—karabakh since azerbaijan's offensive on the region began earlier this month. the threat of a us government shutdown inches closer after members of congress fail to reach an agreement on spending. police have confirmed that 15—year—old jessica baker and coach driver stephen shrimpton died in a crash on the m53 in the wirral yesterday. 27 years after the death of tupac shakur, police in nevada charge a former gang leader for the murder of the american hip—hop star. let's bring you an update on a moving story to begin with. armenia's government says more than 100,000 ethnic armenians have now fled nagorno—karabakh. that's after azerbaijan took control of the disputed enclave after a lightning military campaign earlier this month. nagorno—karabakh was controlled by armenian separatists for decades, but is internationally recognised as part of azerbaijan. the united nations says it's sending a mission

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