Transcripts For BBCNEWS Africa 20240703

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we are coming for you. as the economy breaks down, south africa's migrant community is in the firing line. this is a local branch meeting of an anti—migrant group in orange grove, near the johannesburg city centre. it's called operation dudula, and i've been given rare access. dudula in isizulu literally means "to force out". they're planning to go to businesses this evening and ask them about their citizenship, get details, contact details with them. so we had an... and it seems that this is a typical kind of patrol operation that they do. officialfigures put the number of migrants in south africa at 3.6 million people. but with one in three south africans out of work, migrants have become an easy target. singing as night falls, the team sets off for the high street. they sing they want to find the owner of a local shop who they say has information about a recent stabbing. as we've been walking down the main road and passing shops owned by foreign nationals, this group has been singing songs that contain slurs and also shouting very pointed slurs. loud banging it's all very confusing, and there are no police in sight. why are you getting involved because even with the owner... this is mobjustice. we're trying to make sure that these people who are foreign nationals are respecting us and we are protected in our society. up the street. the next one. they sing as they move on, they head towards a spot they say is notorious for drug dealing. this corner is where you see a lot of drug activity? yes, it's where they buy drugs. white people, our kids, african. but no foreigner. the foreigners are selling. but our people, they are not selling. they're just buying and eat drugs. tell me, what hope do you have? the hope that we have is that the government will end up getting them. our message as a community, that he has to fix where there is a problem. he has to make sure that he come to us and see the way we live. it's like we hoping that tomorrow, it won't be like today. i'd heard reports there'd been a recent dudula attack at this market. no, we walk the talk. we... mm, yeah. well, you lead the way. yes. all right. i've come to meet annie, who's a campaigner for migrant rights. these guys are always on edge. they are always on edge for whatever might happen. hello. how you doing? i'm fine. i'm fine. how are things going? we won't show you if you don't want to. we won't do it. yeah, it's ok. people are understandably reluctant to talk. so you're saying that someone is willing to speak to us? yeah. he's the one who was tased. they tased him. he was tased? yeah. don't worry. i'm not going to show your face. when was this? last sunday? what did they do to the clothes? on the gutter? you haven't been able to make a living? have you your passport to your asylum? yeah. oh, you are a citizen? yes. did the dudula people, did they ask you if you're a citizen? you're saying you want to leave? thank you for your time. and all the best. zandile dabula is the secretary general of operation dudula, and one of its founding members. hello. things that you are supposed to do... yeah. ..and we'lljust be here. she helps to co—ordinate the activities of operation dudula all across south africa. 0k. they converse she's a journalist. we're just going to be here for maybe like about two hours, just observing. i'm just here to learn more about her. we've been in long negotiations to get this access, but the dudula people are still clearly suspicious. so right now you're going to look into the whatsapp messages that you've got. yeah, yeah. the tip—offs. then we check with the owner of the house. 0k. then we take it from there. all right. we're being filmed the whole time. is this the dudula whatsapp line? yeah. how does it work? there was a poster that circulated with these numbers to say if you know of a house, of an rdp house, specifically, that foreign nationals are living in, let us know. give us the exact address and the exact place. then we will come through. so rdp housing is social housing in south africa. it's a house that south african citizens are issued for free when they can prove that they cannot afford their own home, as zandile hasjust mentioned. there's a lot responses. yeah, it's a lot of responses. ok, so now this one, she's giving us the house, the particular house, and wanting to know how they managed to get the rdp house because the husband is from swaziland and the wife is from lesotho. so they're obviously both foreign nationals. we'll check that one. are these messages coming from all over the country? sure. once you've gotten a lead on an rdp house that has foreign nationals living in it, what happens next? so once we get the information, solomon will now phone that person that sent the message to find out who lives in the house, how many people are there, and for how long have they been living there? whilst i check on the system if i can manage to find the owner of the property. phone dials out on phone: all right. she said that she's wearing a dudula t—shirt and you told her to take it off. because, you know, foreign nationals, when theyjust see the operation dudula t—shirt, they know there's trouble. so we don't want them to be suspicious that there's an investigation happening. 0k. sat nav: in 500 metres, turn left. south africans are struggling through an economic crisis. blackouts are a daily occurrence, unemployment is at 33%. it's even worse in the townships, and that's a source of tension. we're in the township called alexandra in the north ofjohannesburg, known for its inequality, like many other symbols of inequality in this country, but what's particular about alex is that it's a stone's throw away from sandton city, which is the richest square mile in africa. i've come to meet bab sabelo. in 2019, he was forced from his home by a group calling itself dudula. did they say why? how did you know they were operation dudula when they came to you? dudula in alexandra is a distinct entity, completely separate from the organisation i'd already met with. but the tactics and the rhetoric are similar. so what do you do in that situation? bab sabelo is now living in this shack, trying to bring up a family. he's a south african citizen and he still has to prove it. and this is evidence that you were born here. yeah. it didn't matter that bab sobelo had spent all his adult life in south africa, that his mother is south african. car horn hoots in the eyes of dudula, he's different and he has to be forced out. a so—called operation dudula task force is going to confront a local shopkeeper, who they say is in a dispute with his landlady over rent. but they only have the landlady�*s word for it. so what are you going to do? we need to engage with him. that's what we do normally. then we'll take measures whereby to call the relevant department to come and deal with it. take this side, take this side. are people scared of you? having identified their target, the team moves in. where's the papers of this business? . bring the papers, put - the papers here and we'll talk. so it was supposed to be a negotiation, and the first step towards an amicable resolution has now descended into a confrontation and a screaming match. they all shout the shopkeeper is forced to sign an agreement, giving him two months to leave the premises. this is vigilantism. this one? this. no. you're not a judge, you're not a policeman, you're not a lawyer. yeah. but you just tried to hold a hearing. since we intervene, we made sure there's a peace. there's a contract that was signed... ..so that you keep your business, i keep my house. when a certain time comes and then you leave my place. well, you threatened him, and you didn't really give him a real option. you didn't listen to his side of the story. i was there, i saw it. yeah, yeah. he didn't get to fully explain. he tried to explain to you that he's unable to leave now, he doesn't have the money. no—one pushed us to do that, which is not a crime. it is not a crime. i said to him, "do you have documents to be here?" what gives you the right for that? i'm a citizen. i'm legally here. i'm a citizen. i have my, my, my, licence. i have my id, i have everything. but you're not an officer of the court. you don't work for immigration. we are not vigilante. he is illegally here. if he was not here, we wouldn't ever, like, have this problem. they're celebrating a job well done. but a shopkeeper with a young family to support has just lost his livelihood. it's a big day for zandile and operation dudula, the movement she helped to found. operation dudula's leadership team is meeting later today to decide on its future. oh! she laughs so, do you find that you co—ordinate everything and you tend to rally everybody? yeah. you know, sometimes also being a woman around men, you get to carry the whole responsibilities. but it's like, more like i'm the mother of the movement, so, yeah, i'm surrounded by men. you know, men can sometimes be a bit too slow, so you just need to make sure that you push. today, the leadership will decide whether operation dudula should become a political party and contest next year's general election. this one? thanks. what they decide will be put to members at a conference in a few days' time. so the purpose of today is to create a framework and a discussion document for this coming weekend and... elections are due next year and current polling suggests for the first time ever, the anc vote could fall below 50%. can we start with - the business of the day? populist movements, like operation dudula, are keen to fill that vacuum. after the meeting, i asked zandile, where did all this start? it's a mess. our country is a mess. foreign nationals are working on a 20—year plan of taking over south africa. where did you get the information about foreign nationals having a plan to take over south africa? it's a rumour, but it looks like it's happening because when we see things happening, then now you start seeing that, yeah, actually it looks like there is a plan. if you hear that people have a plan to take over the country but have no way of verifying that, isn't that dangerous? you see drugs everywhere, and most of the drug addicts are south africans rather than foreign nationals. so what's happening? are they feeding our own brothers and sisters so that it can be easy for them to take over? these are conspiracies and rumours, but the consequences could be really dangerous. singing and chanting operation dudula on the streets ofjohannesburg. hundreds have travelled from across south africa to attend today's conference... ..including phumla, who i'd met earlier. we are live, the conference. what's happening at the conference? we're going to hear everything inside. oh, ok. so you are to be addressed by the executive today. yeah. yes, yes. singing and chanting it's going to be a good, good, good day. there are rumours of a big announcement and the members have come out in force. there's almost a party atmosphere. but listen to the songs. the intent is clear. when you walk the streets in this country, the street vendors, informaltrading is gone _ audience cheers let me tell you where they've gone to. they've gone to — notjust foreigners, they went to illegal foreigners, and government is doing nothing about it. cheering thank you. that is shameful. bloomberg speaks to 430 million households all over the world, and they broadcasted the story that operation dudula is a vigilante group. cheering shouts of agreement reuters followed that message and all, including cnn and bbc, all of them... as a part of their presentation today, the leadership has attacked experts. they've also attacked mainstream media, telling their membership that the media has a conspiracy to make them look bad, to paint them as vigilantes, to paint them as xenophobic, which is very similar to rhetoric from other populist movements around the world. cheering operation dudula does not have sponsors, we don't have any funders, we use our own monies. it looks like it costs a lot of money. and this is all member money. it's not money, i tell you, it's just being creative. this is all creativity that you see here. there's nothing hectic. we didn't hire anything. the camera guys, some of them are some of our members, but some decided that, you know what, we're going to run with this because we can see it's heading somewhere. it looks. ..official. it looks like it was put together professionally. audience: no! so you're going to have to make this decision today. and the recommendation that was given to the nec was the following... audience cheers it's official. operation dudula is going to become a political party... ..and intends to contest next year's general election. i've come to meet zandile one last time. she greets others hey. i still have a few unanswered questions. busy day? it's always hectic. yeah. problems never end. you've managed to gain a following on the singular message that foreigners must go and once illegalforeigners or all foreigners are gone, their problems will go away. is that not running on hate? ok, so we must be realistic here, that most of the problems that we have are caused by the influx of foreign nationals. we were at an operation yesterday. what was supposed to be a conversation very quickly turned into a confrontation. i'll be honest with you, in some instances, you need to really be harsh. we don't promote violence and we don't want people to feel harassed. but i'll tell you that at some stage, we really need to push harder. that's a vigilante...exercise. like, you guys are a vigilante group. we cannot be under attack by foreign nationals and do nothing about it. something needs to happen. but it will be sorted out. operation dudula will be in power. operation dudula talks about crime. they talk about poverty. but i didn't hear anyone talk about the legacy of apartheid, when black south africans were shut out of the economy en masse. it's a legacy we're still living with, made worse by government corruption and looting on a grand scale. i went on this journey to learn more about the kind of people who would join a group like operation dudula. what are their motivations? why do they have such a hate for foreigners? it was that simple. and once i met members of dudula, i realised that a lot of them are just like the people from back home. people i know, people from my neighbourhood, and they struggle with the same things i grew up struggling with. but what's been disappointing is that these people have taken that pain and... ..created more pain. scapegoating foreigners is not going to fix the drug issue, it's not going to fix crime, it's not going to fix unemployment or corruption. inequality is not going to address those things, it's just going to create more and more conflict. and that's devastating. live from washington. this is bbc news. a judge in new york finds that former president donald trump committed fraud by exaggerating his net worth. joe biden tells striking car workers they deserve a raise. he's the first sitting president to join a picket line. plus, a special report from the border where tens of thousands of ethnic armenians are fleeing the disputed territory of nagorno—karabakh. hello, i'm sumi somaskanda. we begin the programme with the activities of two us presidents — one current, one former. one on the picket line, the other battling his latest court challenge. let's start with former president donald trump, and on tuesday, a new york judge ruled that mr trump "repeatedly" violated state fraud law by misrepresenting his wealth. judge arthur engoron agreed with new york attorney general letitia james that trump fraudulently inflated his

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