Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240703

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the battle to buy harrods. —— the lonrho group in the battle to buy harrods. lonrho chief executive tiny rowland demanded an inquiry which found mohamed al—fayed had exaggerated his wealth and background. successive governments refused him british citizenship. do you think this is fair from the home secretary to behave the way with someone like me who have given employment to thousands of people, having four british kids? just it shows what type of people, you know, infiltrate in the political life and give us such a deal. revenge was swift. two conservative ministers, neil hamilton and tim smith, left the government, accused of taking cash to ask questions in the commons. another, jonathan aiken, resigned after mohamed al—fayed revealed that he'd stayed free of charge at the ritz in paris at the same time as saudi arms dealers. he went on to buy fulham football club and courted the royal family. when his son dodi began a relationship with diana, princess of wales, it seemed mohammed al—fayed had finally won a place at the highest levels of british society. but when dodi and diana were killed in paris, he insisted they'd been murdered by mi6. the claims were investigated by the police and a coroner and found to be without substance. outside the court, he clung to conspiracy theories. the evidence doesn't back you up, does it, mr al—fayed? the evidence. what evidence ? i am not talking to you because you are a bloody idiot! you are part of the establishment and your journalists belong — you work for mi... you work for mi6, you idiot! combative and increasingly embittered, mohamed al—fayed spent so many of his later years determined to destroy an establishment he'd once been so keen to join. as we heard, al—fayed used to own the fulham football club. it's released a statement from his successor. earlier, my colleague sumi somaskanda spoke with royal historian gareth russell, who described mohamed al—fayed's potential role in connecting his son, dodi, to the british royal family. it's possible that, actually, dodi and diana met for the first time years before they became a couple at a 1986 polo match, which dodi played against diana's husband, the then prince charles prince of wales. but after the car crash — that tragic car accident in paris in 1997 — mohamed al—fayed really was responsible for mainstreaming two very contentious and contested versions of what had happened. firstly, he did give testimony that was thrown out also by the french inquiry, in which he claimed that there had been an establishment reason to murder his son and the princess of wales. and he also really — whether seemed to believe, but certainly promoted the idea — that dodi and diana had been almost soulmates, that they were very, very much in love and that the relationship had been heading towards marriage. how do you think mohamed al—fayed was seen in british society? that's a great question. i think british society is not often very kind. society with a capital s is not often very kind to people who perceives as outsiders, which certainly they will have seen anyone who was not british, who was aspiring to friendship with the royal family in quite a snobbish light. and certainly, he did have to deal with snobbery in the 1980s and the 1990s. in the broader sense of how he was seen by society, i think in 1997 and the year after 1990, the year following his son's death, there was a great deal of sympathy for him that gradually went across the media —— gradually waned across the media and wider society when his claims seemed to mutate and evolve in detail and sensationalism about this alleged assassination plot. and there did seem to be a growing sense of al—fayed that was less sympathetic as the years wore on. he clung to this version of events about what had happened that night in paris when diana and dodi died. so, i think the sympathy of �*97 and �*98 was sincere towards them from many members of the british public but i don't think it was long long—lasting, largely because of how his testimony and his claims were perceived. that is a really interesting point there, gareth, and given the fact that he was also a very successful businessman, what do you think his legacy will be? multifaceted, i suppose. i've also seen tonight on social media various people who once worked with the royal family who are speaking well of him and saying that they liked him very much, that he was a larger—than—life character. however, there are many who i think will regard him as they will regard many very prominent businessmen — with scepticism. i think that will endure. i think there will be — there's many discussions about how great wealth is acquired and maintained, and i think ultimately, he will be remembered — if you're looking at this from a longer—term historical perspective — he will be remembered more for his attempts to, as i say, mainstream or legitimise the idea that dodi and diana were destined for the altar, were planning to get married. and i think a lot of people who were closer to diana do not believe that that's what was happening. so, i think he will be remembered as a multifaceted person, as i said, but i think the dominant thing that history will remember is the link that he had to the drama and the tragedy surrounding the princess of wales' death in 1997. gareth russell, a royal historian, very good to have your perspective on the passing of mohamed al—fayed. thank you so much. thank you. now to developments right here in washington — two key members of the far—right proud boys group have been sentenced to prison for their role in the storming of the us capitol building. the latest to be sentenced is ethan nordean, who led the group's march on 6january. he received 18 years for seditious conspiracy. that matches the longest sentence related to the 2021 capitol insurrection. also sentenced today, dominic pezzola. you see him here on 6january smashing a window with a police shield before filming himself smoking a cigar inside the capitol building. he was given ten years for assaulting police and obstructing an official proceeding. here's our north america editor sarah smith. there's probably about 300 proud boys. they're marching... thousands of people marched on the capitol onjanuary 6th, 2021. the violence that followed has already led to hundreds of convictions with the longest sentences going to the people who coordinated and organised the riot. the neo—fascist proud boys saw themselves as donald trump's foot soldiers, prepared to use force to stopjoe biden being certified as president. ethan nordean, in the baseball cap, and joseph biggs, in the checkjacket, took charge of the proud boys on that day, using a radio to coordinate and move their men. they've both been convicted of seditious conspiracy. nordean has received one of the longest sentences related to the january 6th riots — 18 years in prison. crowd chant: we want trump! we want trump! donald trump had invited his supporters to come to washington and to march towards congress, using language many believed encouraged the violence that followed. we fight. we fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country any more. joseph biggs sobbed in court and begged for leniency before he was sentenced to 17 years in jail. his lawyer blames the former president. where's donald trump in all of this? he stood on the ellipse and basically told people, 7a million of his followers," election is stolen. "go to capital. "fight like hell you won't have a country anymore." some people listened to him. donald trump had invited his supporters to come to washington and to march towards congress, using language many believe encouraged the violence that followed. and we fight, we fight like hell. joseph biggs sobbed in court and begged for leniency before he was sentenced to 17 years in jail. dominic pezzola can be clearly seen smashing a window in congress, which then ignited the invasion of the building. he's been sentenced to ten years in prison. in a debate withjoe biden — before the 2020 election — donald trump refused to condemn racist violence and name—checked the proud boys. the proud boys, stand back and stand by. the proud boys�* leader, enrique tarrio, will be sentenced next week. donald trump himself is now facing a criminal trial next year related to his attempts to overturn the 2020 election results. if he is convicted, he also could be facing a lengthy jail sentence. sarah smith, bbc news, washington. cbs news correspondent williejames inman was in the courtroom as the sentences were handed down. pezzola was at the forefront of this entire situation when the events surrounding january 6th unfolded and the assault, including the assault on the us capitol. as you mentioned, he essentially bashed the window, letting in the first batch of the rioters into the capitol complex and today, while he did have some of his family there to support him, pezzola essentially nearly in tears, telling the judge that he had given up politics and after the judge spoke, the judge left the room, he then raised his fist and said, "trump won!" he yelled that in the courtroom there with his family members still present, so it is unclear if he gave up politics when you have that statement coming from pezzola but clearly, he was one of the main characters when this riot and insurrection unfolded at the capitol. pezzola getting ten years behind bars for his involvement. and willie, let's talk about ethan nordean receiving what —— 18 years in prison — that's almost twice what pezzola received. tell us more about his role. i actually want to read some of what a judge has said, the us district courtjudge — in this case, timothy kelly. he told nordean saying, "i think it was a tragedy how "you got to a to b" and went on to say "maybe your upbringing was hard" with no criminal record but nordean clearly in this case did not have that nonexisting criminal record in this case. he was clearly involved in all of what went on in that day with the proud boys to receive the hefty sentence of 18 years with stewart rhodes from the 0ath keepers — he also received 18 years with his involvement on everything that went on that day, so quite a serious case in this case, like a lot of others involved with proud boys, this seditious conspiracy charge essentially trying to overthrow the us government. that's why prosecutors gave such an impassioned argument to try and get the sentencing up there in terms of years, in terms of length of years, but 18 years is quite a lengthy sentence and the longest sentence, as both you and i mentioned. to follow up on that, some critics have said that these are particularly harsh sentences for these men. what more can you tell us about that? yeah, i mean, they're lengthy sentences, indeed, but prosecutors — the doj in this case — were asking for more time for some of these individuals involved. enrique tarrio, whose case is coming up next week, prosecutors have asked for some 33 years. joseph biggs — they've also asked for 33 years. he got 17 years. so, it's clear that prosecutors believe that these are very serious crimes, they want more time. there is some criticism, of course, with these cases. some individuals here in the us thinking that this is politically motivated, this is a doj playing politics, but still, it is important to point out that some of the judges were actually appointed by former president donald trump. in this case, the judge that handed down the sentence today was appointed by former president trump. soi so i think it is important to point that out as these sentences are handed down. i just want to jump in their and ask you about the former president because he has, of course, loomed large over these trials. so, how has he factored in? he certainly has and trump still has an effect over all of what happened here in washington, even though he is no longer here in washington. not as president or living here, but clearly these not as president or living here, but clearly, these judges, when they hand out these sentences, although they might not necessarily mention trump by name, they certainly know the gravity of what is at stake here, that these individuals, the proud boys, to be specific were essentially trying to lead a revolution against the us government. we, of course, know that donald trump, the former president, has several cases up and down the east coast that he has to face — of course, federal cases both here and in florida. you a state case going on in fulton county. all of this will come to a head during the middle of the presidential election. so, while former president trump, his name might not be necessarily mentioned but still, the context of what went on that date is still crystal clear in terms of the actions of some of these individuals and the charges and sentences that they now face. sumi. thank you so much forjoining us. great to have you. typhoon saola has made landfall in southern china, having given hong kong a glancing blow. although it has reduced in strength, saola is bringing fierce winds and heavy rain to guangdong province, where tens of millions of people are sheltering indoors. 800—thousand have been evacuated from the more vulnerable areas there, which is home to several megacities. the system is likely to bring storm conditions for much of the weekend. to south african now, where relatives have begun identifying the bodies of those who died in the worst building fire the country has seen. 7a people, including 12 children, were killed in the blaze at an apartment block injohannesburg's former central business district on thursday. there have been complaints of delays in the identification process, with some families waiting outside the mortuary for up to two hours. the un has warned of an impending humanitarian crisis in niger after the new militaryjunta suspended the activities of un agencies in what it called military operation zones. the army took power in a coup in latejuly amidst islamist militant insurgencies. more than 3 million people already face food insecurity in niger and prices have increased 20% since the coup. meanwhile, the junta says it's dismayed by remarks from france's president emmanuel macron, calling them interference. on friday, mr macron said paris doesn't recognise the coup leaders. meanwhile in gabon, the military leader who led the coup there says the country's state institutions will be made more democratic. speaking on friday, general brice 0ligui nguema says the institutions will be reorganised and improved and that their suspension on wednesday, when president ali bongo was overthrown, was temporary. earlier, gabon�*s opposition coalition accused the military of showing no indication they plan to hand back power to a civilian government. ali bongo, whose family has held power for over half a century, now remains under house arrest. the situation has drawn regional and international condemnation. these are two of the latest in a wave of coups in west and central africa in recent years. with the situation in gabon, the region has now seen eight coups since 2020. let's dive in deeper on these coups, joining me live is bisa williams, former us ambassador to niger, and eric benjaminson, former us ambassador to gabon. bisa williams, the wake of the niger coup, ecowas warned about their concern about the risk of contagion on the continent. french president emmanuel macron thinks they are very different situations. what's your view? i think both things are correct. i do think the coup in niger is a bad signal to militaries who are thinking that perhaps political leadership is no longer necessary and it is going to do anything about it and at the same time i do think what happened in gabon did not happened in gabon did not happened for the same kinds of reasons that you had a coup in niger. so the fact that you have military taking these steps, think everybody needs to pay attention to, but i also think it's really important to understand what are the root causes of these justice of the decisions, of the kind of an outcome. decisions, of the kind of an outcome-— decisions, of the kind of an outcome. . �* ., ,, ., outcome. eric ben'amin simm, do outcome. eric ben'amin simm, do ou auree outcome. eric ben'amin simm, do you agree with — outcome. eric benjamin simm, do you agree with that? _ outcome. eric benjamin simm, do you agree with that? i _ outcome. eric benjamin simm, do you agree with that? i do. - you agree with that? i do. thanks for— you agree with that? i do. thanks for having - you agree with that? i do. thanks for having on. - you agree with that? i do. thanks for having on. i. you agree with that? i do. i thanks for having on. i think we need to look at these coups are separate. if there was an underlying factor with eight is the free flow of information to these countries, the use of smart phones and the internet. i think citizens of these countries now have malways to look _ countries now have malways to look at — countries now have malways to look at it _ countries now have malways to look at it. as one of your earlier_ look at it. as one of your earlier segments was talking about, — earlier segments was talking about, we might have also had a new in_ about, we might have also had a new in the — about, we might have also had a new in the us, so i'd be hesitant— new in the us, so i'd be hesitant to love all these things— hesitant to love all these things together. what we used to say— things together. what we used to say about gabon is it's really— to say about gabon is it's really hard to know what is actually _ really hard to know what is actually going on and i think you could make a case that this coup— you could make a case that this coup might have been driven by other— coup might have been driven by other family members than simply— other family members than simply by politics. that is just— simply by politics. that is just a _ simply by politics. that is just a supposition, there is really— just a supposition, there is really no _ just a supposition, there is really no way to know. gabon and niger both former french colonies, since 1990 78% of the 27 coups in sub—saharan africa have occurred in francophone countries, how might the legacy of colonialism influence the situation we're seeing in the countries today? that's a pretty startling statistic and is one that you would want to pay attention to. however, there was colonialism all over the continent and, again, if you go to root causes, maybe this has something to do with what kinds of opportunities came up, how much education people have in the various countries in africa, what accesses do good health, good employment, the ability to take care of their families, and how much they see there is some kind of possibility for each generation to do better than the previous one. . , to do better than the previous one. . _ one. eric, juicy post- colonialism - one. eric, juicy post- colonialism as - one. eric, juicy post- colonialism as a - one. eric, juicy post- i colonialism as a factor? one. eric, juicy post- - colonialism as a factor? yes, in a manner— colonialism as a factor? yes, in a manner of— colonialism as a factor? yes, in a manner of speaking, - colonialism as a factor? yes, j in a manner of speaking, you can_ in a manner of speaking, you can draw— in a manner of speaking, you can draw some differences between francophone colonialism and british, etc. in addition to was_ and british, etc. in addition to was lisa said, was i agree with, — to was lisa said, was i agree with. one _ to was lisa said, was i agree with, one of the other factors is the — with, one of the other factors is the particular ties that are made — is the particular ties that are made between france, france business. _ made between france, france business, french government, and their— business, french government, and their former colonies, i think— and their former colonies, i think is— and their former colonies, i think is a _ and their former colonies, i think is a little different than _ think is a little different than the situation between britain _ than the situation between britain and its former colonies and that— britain and its former colonies and that brings elites together, brings business together, brings business together in a way that might be resented — together in a way that might be resented by poorer citizens of these — resented by poorer citizens of these countries. should the us be doing more in the region? you are very familiar with niger in particular, it hosts a signal nhfic and us military base. is the us suitably invested in stability and democracy in the area? bisa? the us has traditionally been very strong in promoting democracy, promoting human rights, promoting transparency, and i think the latest summit by president bidenjust and i think the latest summit by president biden just last december are brought together african leaders was even a stronger indication of us involvement on that level. it is true that the united states was building, more and more comments seem to be, a larger security partnership in niger and actually in west africa, shall we say. but that was not supposed to be at the expense of its policy to really support civil society, support the rule of law. i've personally think there is more the united states can be doing, should be doing. i think that it is time for us to be even more aggressive in more infrastructure support, more infrastructure support, more educational support, but i do have to say the united states has consistently supported rule of law, supported rule of law, supported human rights, supported human rights, supported democracy and if you notice in almost all of the coos we have seen in west africa so far, even when the united states has said they are against the coup, that they stand with the positions of ecowas, the united states hasn't been singled out as the villain. for example, as france was, even ridiculously in the niger case, because the french had nothing to do with the coup actually happening. at any rate, the united states seems to be balancing pretty well its relationship with civil society and its relationship with administrations.- and its relationship with administrations. eric, would ou no administrations. eric, would you go along _ administrations. eric, would you go along with _ administrations. eric, would you go along with her, - administrations. eric, would you go along with her, you i administrations. eric, would i you go along with her, you are stationed in gabon, a little different to niger? i go stationed in gabon, a little different to niger? i go along with the general— different to niger? i go along with the general points. - different to niger? i go along with the general points. i - with the general points. i think— with the general points. i think the us is sincerely interested in maintaining democratisation and humanising the health of servers are —— civil— the health of servers are —— civil society. at the same time the situation cabonne is different. there is a mr miller relationship between gabon and the us. — relationship between gabon and the us, there is no troops on the us, there is no troops on the ground. there is a very small— the ground. there is a very small business relationship between gabon and the us, so you cant— between gabon and the us, so you can't really say the us is being — you can't really say the us is being motivated by economic or political— being motivated by economic or political military circumstances. i think that while _ circumstances. i think that while we _ circumstances. i think that while we do generally agree that— while we do generally agree that there should have been a democratisation change, we also recognise — democratisation change, we also recognise discussion by saying this i— recognise discussion by saying this i don't memory support a coup— this i don't memory support a coup in— this i don't memory support a coup in any way, but i think we all recognise there were some irregularities in the recent election— irregularities in the recent election about them barzagli and i— election about them barzagli and i also think that we do ask ourselves— and i also think that we do ask ourselves in countries like gabon _ ourselves in countries like gabon was more could we be doing? — gabon was more could we be doing? i_ gabon was more could we be doing? i think is important we continue — doing? i think is important we continue to work with the united _ continue to work with the united nations, the african union. _ united nations, the african union, the regional organisations that are part of the african union and i think that's— the african union and i think that's where we exert the influence we have, but in gabon i influence we have, but in gabon i would — influence we have, but in gabon i would say _ influence we have, but in gabon i would say that our levels that — i would say that our levels that we _ i would say that our levels that we can you specifically are less _ that we can you specifically are less than what we have in niger — president trump created a position of special envoy to the sahel region, a position that president biden has not filled, should he make that a priority? eric? i would actually leave that question a little bit, i didn't work— question a little bit, i didn't work on _ question a little bit, i didn't work on it— question a little bit, i didn't work on it much. i think any more — work on it much. i think any more deep _ work on it much. i think any more deep involvement on the part of— more deep involvement on the part of the us in africa is a very— part of the us in africa is a very strong thing and a very useful— very strong thing and a very useful movement. bisa? would you like to see a special envoy to this a hell region? i envoy to this a hell region? i think it is very important. i think it is very important. i think a special on, if that special envoy is going to be able to influence policy would be useful. able to influence policy would be useful-— be useful. ok. we leave it there for _ be useful. ok. we leave it there for the _ be useful. ok. we leave it there for the moment. - be useful. ok. we leave it| there for the moment. bisa williams and eric benjaminson, thank you both forjoining us. thank you. thank you both for “oining us. thank you-* thank you both for “oining us. thank you.�* very l thank you. thank you. very hood. before we go, there's outrage in a town in central italy after a popularfemale bear was shot dead. a man has claimed he opened fire on the animal out of fear. that is it for the moment. i am katrina perry in washington. do stay with us on bbc news. hello there. the first week of september is looking a lot more summery than what we had throughout most ofjuly and indeed august. this weekend, high pressure is building in. it will turn drier and sunnier and warmer across the board. however, there will be a fly in the ointment that comes with this area of low pressure in its weather from which will push close to the north—west of scotland at times, certainly on sunday. but high pressure is building in — it's killing off the showers, the clouds. early on saturday we should see any rain fizzling out, but there will be a legacy of clouds and mist and fog, particularly across central southern england, wales, northern ireland. here it's going to be mild, but again, the north—east corner of scotland will be quite chilly with temperatures in low single digits. so we start off, plenty of sunshine in the north. further south, mist and fog through the morning which will tend to lift and burn. into the afternoon, could see the odd isolated shower developing, but most places will stay dry and it'll feel a lot warmer for most — low to mid 20s across the board. as we head through saturday night again we'll see the mist and fog develop pretty much anywhere but especially across parts of england and wales. gradually, this weather front will start to push into the north—west of scotland to bring stronger winds, outbreaks of rain. a much milder night to come across north—east scotland, 13 degrees for aberdeen. and elsewhere, temperatures will be in double figures. sunday high pressure still with us, but this weather front will be influencing the weather across north—west scotland. so for the highlands and islands, it'll be quite cloudy, breezy with outbreaks of rain here. but southern and eastern scotland, northern ireland, england and wales, once any early mist and fog clears away, then it'll be a lovely, sunny, dry day. light winds for most quite gusty, though, for the north—west of scotland. temperature wise, for the highlands and islands, 15 to 17 degrees. but the rest of scotland, northern ireland, england and wales, it's the low to mid 20s. as we head into monday we hold on to this wetter, cloudier, breezier weather across north—west scotland. but the rest of scotland, northern ireland, england and wales again, once any morning mist and fog clears away, it'll be dry, sunny and very warm with temperatures ranging from 22 to 26 celsius. much warmer there for eastern scotland, too. and we hold on to those temperatures mid to maybe high 20s for england and wales. could see close to 30 degrees in one or two spots, otherwise they'll be turning more unsettled by the end of the week. voice-over: this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines for you at the top of the hour, which is straight after this programme. my name is lea. i may look like a normal twentysomething... ..but my life is often consumed by illness. approximately 1000 people are born every day in africa with sickle cell. i have sickle cell disease. up to 90% of us die before the age of five. 0ur government do little to help us. and i'm advocating to those in power to change that. even in our own communities, people with sickle cell are often treated like outcasts because of misconception and stigma surrounding the disease.

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