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technology, we will try and get a hold of them later on. just to let you know that we are following this news that the wagner mercenary group boss was on the list of passengers on an aircraft that crashed, according to russian authorities. live now to the bbc�*s nada ibrahim, who has investigated the wagner group. it's important to understand why yevgeny prigozhin was such an influentialfigure, he did something nobody could've imagined possible, marching on moscow with his troops. talk to us about who this man is. soper goshen is a founder —— so bogosian was the founder of the wagner mercenary group, for a long time he was leading from the shadows, he was only a few months into the invasion of ukraine where he started coming out as the leader and founder and clips that were seen of him on the front lines in ukraine. but it's important to highlight that this man was operating this group from the shadows for quite a few years, and he first appeared in 2014—15 in eastern ukraine, and since he first appeared, he's been accused of a series of war crimes in ukraine, and later on in syria in 2017, then in 2019 and 2022-23 in later on in syria in 2017, then in 2019 and 2022—23 in libya. so prigozhin has been accused of any work crimes, and this wasn't different when they joined work crimes, and this wasn't different when theyjoined the invasion of ukraine, again the start of their participation over ukraine... it became public on the ground, and in some places they were making a difference on the ground. his profile kept increasing when he admitted to leaving the wagner mercenary group. then when it came to the mutiny he tried to carry out against the russian ministry of defence, there was a build up to that, but there was a lot of bad blood between prigozhin and that ministry of defence, he claimed that they had let the russian troops down and not provided them with the required ammunition. it was a very unique video that he published, swearing and looking very angry with scores of bodies behind him presumably wagner fighters, scores of bodies behind him presumably wagnerfighters, and he was blaming their deaths on the russian defence ministry. it was shortly after that he launched his failed mutiny which lasted less than a day. 50 failed mutiny which lasted less than a da _ failed mutiny which lasted less than ada _ �* failed mutiny which lasted less than ada. �* failed mutiny which lasted less than ada. ., a day. so as you've painted a icture a day. so as you've painted a picture there, _ a day. so as you've painted a picture there, a _ a day. so as you've painted a picture there, a man - a day. so as you've painted a picture there, a man who - a day. so as you've painted a. picture there, a man who built a day. so as you've painted a - picture there, a man who built up a very public profile but he had been keeping quite a low profile since that short—lived mutiny injune. that short—lived mutiny in june. just talk us through where he's been since then. ~ �* , ., ., since then. we've been following him very closely — since then. we've been following him very closely since _ since then. we've been following him very closely since that _ since then. we've been following him very closely since that day, _ since then. we've been following him very closely since that day, even - very closely since that day, even when the mutiny officially ended with the intervention in belarus. for a few hours, we didn't hear or see anything, the last footage that was seen of him back then was him from a car in the west of russia. since then, we've been keeping a close eye on his movements. the last video before this crash was in africa, we speculated a lot, this was a country where ragnar had been operating for many years, we believe that was in july. operating for many years, we believe that was injuly. there was a video afterwards, he is an important figure let's not talk about much, but he was essentially a commander and the group was named after him. he was killed in the same plane crash. in that video, they both appeared, and they were talking to their troops along with... they were standing in the darkness and talking about how they wanted to expand in africa, and the weren't going to be able to participate in the ukraine war any more, able to participate in the ukraine warany more, again able to participate in the ukraine war any more, again due to the mutiny and the ultimate in dutch ultimatum given by vladimir putin, the russian president, to go to belarus. . ~ the russian president, to go to belarus. ., ~ , ., the russian president, to go to belarus. . ~' , ., , the russian president, to go to belarus. ., ~ , ., , . ., belarus. thank you very much, not abraham who's _ belarus. thank you very much, not abraham who's been _ belarus. thank you very much, not abraham who's been investigating | belarus. thank you very much, not. abraham who's been investigating the wagner group. we've seen some from the russian telegram channels that there's been suspicion that yevgeny prigozhin might�*ve been on a different plane than the one that crashed today, and are giving numbers of a different chat. those plane records are accessible through a popular website, plane records are accessible through a popularwebsite, but plane records are accessible through a popular website, but data shows it departed from st. petersburg earlier today and flew towards moscow, the trail disappears in the russian capital, and just to underscore the bbc has so far been unable to confirm which plane yevgeny prigozhin was on board. so of course we can confirm that he was listed as a passenger on the private plane where you are seeing pictures of that crash, which happened north of moscow. we do not know if he was actually physically on that plane, now we are hearing some russian telegram channels speculating mr bogosian was on a different plane than the one you are seeing on your screen, the pictures we have very kite dutch verified of that plane crash —— prigozhin. let's speak to washington post journalist missy ryan. she specialises in national security and diplomacy. thanks very much forjoining us on the programme. what we are first thoughts when you first saw this breaking news? it thoughts when you first saw this breaking news?— thoughts when you first saw this breakin: news? . , ,. ., , breaking news? it really underscores the in'u breaking news? it really underscores the injury and _ breaking news? it really underscores the injury and the — breaking news? it really underscores the injury and the drama _ breaking news? it really underscores the injury and the drama that - breaking news? it really underscores the injury and the drama that is - the injury and the drama that is enveloping president putin's war in ukraine, and the repercussions that's having notjust across the west with global security, but also within mr putin's power establishment. there's been speculation since the uprising that prigozhin staged earlier this summer that there would be retribution for him from the kremlin, obviously putin's enemies have a long history of meeting an untimely end, sometimes long after the fact of their perceived betrayal, so obviously such a public and dramatic challenge to putin's leadership, according to the american officials that we speak with here, had the potential to be the same kind of thing where putin wouldn't want this to stand. now we have no idea whether prigozhin was in this plane, whether prigozhin was in this plane, whether or not he's 0k whether prigozhin was in this plane, whether or not he's ok or not ok, but this really underscores the stakes, the power struggle that the war in ukraine has really shown us in russia, and the fissures in the power establishment that putin himself leads. the us has been quick to point out since pro goshen�*s mutiny that, while he may have been a critic of the military leadership of the war —— bogosian, he had his own and that would put him in the same camp as western countries that are supporting ukraine, he was fighting and his forces were fighting and his forces were fighting on the side of russia, and the wagner group certainly has a history of brutal behaviour on battlefields in africa, syria and elsewhere so a reminder of the unsavoury activity that wagner has been a part of. in unsavoury activity that wagner has been a part oh— been a part of. in the last hour we've heard — been a part of. in the last hour we've heard from _ been a part of. in the last hour we've heard from the - been a part of. in the last hour we've heard from the white i been a part of. in the last hour- we've heard from the white house saying president biden has been briefed on this reported plane crash, obviously this is something they'll be watching with great interest. what will the biden administration be making of this, though? administration be making of this, thou~h? �* , ., . though? i've been in touch with officials in _ though? i've been in touch with officials in the _ though? i've been in touch with officials in the last _ though? i've been in touch with officials in the last hour - though? i've been in touch with officials in the last hour and, i officials in the last hour and, because this is an evolving situation, they are trying to figure out what has occurred just like we are in the media. but what they'll be watching for is, regardless of what happens to prigozhin, the downing of an aircraft associated with him, no matter his personal fate, what does that say about the kremlin and putin's grip on power, and ultimately his ability to project force, power and influence beyond russian corners? that's a big subject in belarus and beyond. bud subject in belarus and beyond. and doesnt subject in belarus and beyond. and doesn't have _ subject in belarus and beyond. and doesn't have any implications for how the us and the west continues to engage with russia and vladimir putin if it does come to that, that yevgeny prigozhin was taken out of the equation, so to speak, by vladimir putin? it’s the equation, so to speak, by vladimir putin?— the equation, so to speak, by vladimir putin? it's hard to see it really affecting — vladimir putin? it's hard to see it really affecting the _ vladimir putin? it's hard to see it really affecting the potential- really affecting the potential dialogue with putin, he's already the subject of an icc arrest warrant, he's been described in the most highly critical terms by president biden himself, by other members of the us government for a long time now. he already has the status of a pariah, at least when it comes to western diplomatic engagement for the most part. but prigozhin, as i've been saying, is a really problematic actor and someone who's been associated with the most sinister russian power projection across the developing world. so i think that what american officials will be thinking about is, what are the consequences for putin himself of either a successful attempt to target prigozhin, if that's what it was, orsomething target prigozhin, if that's what it was, or something that would have been perceived as a failed attempt may be by russians themselves. missy, great to get your thoughts, thanks very much, joining us from the washington post. bbc ukraine's gregory zhygalov is with me in the studio. what sort of responses are you seeing from ukraine?— what sort of responses are you seeing from ukraine? every second there is something _ seeing from ukraine? every second there is something new— seeing from ukraine? every second there is something new added, i seeing from ukraine? every second there is something new added, but| there is something new added, but obviously i was trying to focus and see what's the reaction from kyiv. i didn't see any official reaction because the president is trying to travel around europe and get as many fighterjets for the counteroffensive as possible. but the reaction of the ukrainian audiences, of course there's lots of reactions and people are commenting a lot on social media and messengers. the main reaction, which i'm noticing, is they see it as revenge from president putin for the humiliation he got during the events of rostov, because everyone noticed after the events that bogosian left without paying any price after doing these kinds of things in russia, putin's russia. so what i can see at this moment, we are still waiting for an official reaction, but this is the main reaction from ukrainians. 50 is the main reaction from ukrainians.— is the main reaction from ukrainians. �* , ., ., ukrainians. so we've yet to find out what the ukrainian _ ukrainians. so we've yet to find out what the ukrainian authorities i ukrainians. so we've yet to find out what the ukrainian authorities say l what the ukrainian authorities say about this, but we know what the russian authorities are saying. their statement on the issue says this... so that's what we are hearing there from russian authorities. and just in terms of what yevgeny prigozhin meant in terms of the war on ukraine, put that in the context for us, what he meant and what this news now would mean.— now would mean. yes, of course his military group. _ now would mean. yes, of course his military group. the _ now would mean. yes, of course his military group, the wagner- now would mean. yes, of course his military group, the wagner group, | military group, the wagner group, was a huge power this year in all russian operations, the east of ukraine, and russians afterwards were not very successful in capturing the north of the territory and when they had to withdraw, they relied a lot on the mercenaries of the wagner group, in the main point they were trying to gain more territory around bakhmut, so this was the biggest battle over the last 9-10 was the biggest battle over the last 9—10 months, before the city was taken by prigozhin's group, wagner, and the ukrainian army really had to spend a lot of resources there to protect that piece of the front line. and that really stopped ukraine from advancing or preparing the counteroffensive on other different lines of the front line, right, and there are now still lots of debate as to whether this battle of debate as to whether this battle of bakhmut defined the shape of this counteroffensive which was giving now, and we know that it is going quite hard for the ukrainian army because the ukrainian army had to spend a lot of resources defending bock mood. and again, bock mood was something where prigozhin played a crucial role. —— bakhmut. after that mutiny in moscow, there were questions about where wagner would move to, we heard possibly belarus — what have we heard about what happened to the wagner military group after that march in moscow? taste group after that march in moscow? , definitely know they stopped being an important force in ukraine, they moved to belarus, and there they became sort of a troublemaker. we know that the president of belarus, lukashenko, for saying that he asked the wagner group who were threatening to go to poland, they were threatening to go to the baltic states. so it was a point of pressure for the european union and european countries. we don't really know how this pressure was serious, but that definitely needed some attention and energy, and resources to take care of. now it's a big question what will happen with wagner. question what will happen with wa . ner. �* . question what will happen with warner. �* ., ., , , question what will happen with warner. ., ., , question what will happen with warner.�* ., ., , , wagner. and what does this say about vladimir putin's _ wagner. and what does this say about vladimir putin's grip _ wagner. and what does this say about vladimir putin's grip on _ wagner. and what does this say about vladimir putin's grip on power, - wagner. and what does this say about vladimir putin's grip on power, or- vladimir putin's grip on power, or how he perceives his grip on power being challenged by yevgeny prigozhin? fist being challenged by yevgeny prigozhin?— being challenged by yevgeny priaozhin? �* , ., ., �* prigozhin? at this moment we don't know what happened _ prigozhin? at this moment we don't know what happened to _ prigozhin? at this moment we don't know what happened to prigozhin. l prigozhin? at this moment we don't l know what happened to prigozhin. we definitely know there were lots of questions after this mutiny and why putin didn't respond on it. and i think to answer your question, we probably need to wait a little bit longer, a few days, it may be hours when we figure out what really happened, if prigozhin really was on board that plane and who is behind this event. ,., ., ., , this event. important to remember there are still _ this event. important to remember there are still details _ this event. important to remember there are still details which - there are still details which haven't been verified. gregory, thanks to have onset here in the studio. live now to nikolai petrov — he's a consulting fellow on the russia and eurasia programme at chatham house, in london, also a visiting researcher for the german institute for international and security affairs. we can confirm that bogosian's name was on the passenger list of the plane that crashed, we can't confirm whether he was on the plane physically. —— prigozhin. this is a huge development in light of what happened between prigozhin and putin. . �* , happened between prigozhin and putin. ., �*, ., ,, ., , ., putin. that's obstinately right, and it's best to keep _ putin. that's obstinately right, and it's best to keep in _ putin. that's obstinately right, and it's best to keep in mind _ putin. that's obstinately right, and it's best to keep in mind that i putin. that's obstinately right, and it's best to keep in mind that there are different versions discussed of whether it was a defence system or a bomb on board that caused this crash. but it shows the direction of mind, and... the replacement of the a—star general who was somehow connected to yevgeny prigozhin, and also replaced for the post of the commander of the military air force. providing protection from ukrainians on one side, and also the reaction from prigozhin on the other side. i think that we will never know for sure whether prigozhin himself was on board or whether it's been staged by security forces in order to get prigozhin to disappear from the power stage. it’s prigozhin to disappear from the power stage-— power stage. it's such a murky icture power stage. it's such a murky picture there. _ power stage. it's such a murky picture there, and _ power stage. it's such a murky picture there, and like - power stage. it's such a murky picture there, and like you i power stage. it's such a murky| picture there, and like you say, there are some things we may never know. but could you just explain or unpack for us what's been happening within the russian military? because as you mentioned, prigozhin had a bone to pick with certain military leaders. just ask blame that picture to us in terms of what support there was for his mission within the military, and what it was for vladimir putin ——just military, and what it was for vladimir putin —— just explain that picture to us. in vladimir putin -- 'ust explain that picture to us.— picture to us. in my view, the trivate picture to us. in my view, the private army _ picture to us. in my view, the private army was _ picture to us. in my view, the private army was used - picture to us. in my view, the private army was used by i picture to us. in my view, the i private army was used by putin and it did play a very important role last autumn at the time of the ukrainian counteroffensive when the russian military were unable to keep positions, and the wagner group, which was allowed to take prisoners to serve as their soldiers, did play a very important role. this role has been played in the past, and now i think the military does not feel any serious need in using this force, or this force can be used without yevgeny prigozhin in it. so whether the wagner group, or what remains of the wagner group, or what remains of the wagner group, which is supposed to be the most effective unit inside the russian military, whether it will be used in the future. but it's not directly connected to yevgeny prigozhin himself. fiend not directly connected to yevgeny prigozhin himself.— not directly connected to yevgeny prigozhin himself. and what about the wagner _ prigozhin himself. and what about the wagner mercenary _ prigozhin himself. and what about the wagner mercenary group? i prigozhin himself. and what about | the wagner mercenary group? this prigozhin himself. and what about i the wagner mercenary group? this is a group that's been active since 2014, it was highly active in the ukraine war until that mutiny in june. what could happen to them without prigozhin? i june. what could happen to them without prigozhin?— without prigozhin? i think that pritozhin without prigozhin? i think that prigozhin served _ without prigozhin? i think that prigozhin served the _ without prigozhin? i think that prigozhin served the role i without prigozhin? i think that prigozhin served the role of. prigozhin served the role of commercial leader, but the military leader of this group was a former colonel who supposedly was on board this plane, as well. and when putin didn't meet with the commanders from the wagner group after the mutiny, he got both of them to serve in the russian army under the leadership of theirformer russian army under the leadership of their former command. russian army under the leadership of theirformer command. so russian army under the leadership of their former command. so what's going on now — i think the general idea is to use this military force, but have a person which is not very welcome for prigozhin —— like prigozhin or someone else as their leader. 50 prigozhin or someone else as their leader. , , ._ , prigozhin or someone else as their leader. , , , ., leader. so the ministry says that the 'et leader. so the ministry says that the jet that _ leader. so the ministry says that the jet that the _ leader. so the ministry says that the jet that the report _ leader. so the ministry says that the jet that the report prigozhin | the jet that the report prigozhin being on was flying from moscow to st. petersburg. it's been a bit unclear but yevgeny prigozhin's whereabouts have been since that mutiny. we saw a video of him looking like he was somewhere in africa a couple days ago. just how much to be know about his movements since the mutiny?— since the mutiny? well, there are certain pieces _ since the mutiny? well, there are certain pieces of _ since the mutiny? well, there are certain pieces of information i since the mutiny? well, there are certain pieces of information that | certain pieces of information that tell if prigozhin was travelling a lot when moscow —— between moscow and st. petersburg, in this case, and st. petersburg, in this case, and it's not very clear what exactly he was doing there. but what we know for sure is he went back on the money that was paid... although he was allowed to be active in africa, though perhaps not to play a role in the war in ukraine any more. so though perhaps not to play a role in the war in ukraine any more. 50 at the war in ukraine any more. so at this moment. _ the war in ukraine any more. so at this moment, we _ the war in ukraine any more. so at this moment, we haven't confirmed exactly what's happened to yevgeny prigozhin or why, but can you talk us through why it not many people are surprised? because any challenge to vladimir putin is usually met with some kind of retribution. iretell. with some kind of retribution. well, it was understandable _ with some kind of retribution. well, it was understandable from - with some kind of retribution. eii it was understandable from the very beginning that prigozhin should be very careful after the mutiny and after what he was saying with regard to vladimir putin directly. it looked like nothing has happened, but it's the usual kremlin style not to demonstrate any actions immediately. but if putin failed, he was humiliated by prigozhin. what was humiliated by prigozhin. what was sure was set putin's image was damaged by prigozhin, bill damaged by prigozhin, all right, thank ou damaged by prigozhin, all right, thank you very _ damaged by prigozhin, all right, thank you very much, _ damaged by prigozhin, all right, thank you very much, it's _ damaged by prigozhin, all right, thank you very much, it's very i damaged by prigozhin, all right, thank you very much, it's very good j thank you very much, it's very good to get your thoughts this. also a visiting researcherfor to get your thoughts this. also a visiting researcher for the german institute for international and security affairs, thanks very much forjoining us with your thoughts on this developing news. and just to bring you another line just coming in from the us state department, they say it no one should be surprised if it is confirmed that prigozhin was on board. of course we heard from the white house earlier saying that presidentjoe biden has been briefed on the reported plane crash in moscow, that's what the white house was saying, and those pictures, as you can see, have been verified by the bbc, they show that plane crash that's been reported. russian authorities say yevgeny prigozhin was on board that plane. we are yet to verify that he was indeed physically on that plane, though we can confirm that his name was on the passenger list. now some russian telegram channels have speculated that you have getting prigozhin might have been on a different plane to the one you can see on your screen that crashed today. anotherjet owned by him has flight records that are partially in accessible through the tracking website, but it does show that it departed from st. petersburg earlier today. we will continue to bring you all the latest on this, those reports from russia that the leader of the wagner mercenary group, yevgeny prigozhin, has been killed in a plane crash two months after his forces launched a mutiny against the russian military. we are working to confirm all those details of course, and we will bring you all the latest right here on bbc news, so do stay with us for that. that mutiny which — so do stay with us for that. that mutiny which leads _ so do stay with us for that. that mutiny which leads to _ so do stay with us for that. that mutiny which leads to the death of russian servicemen, get the charges have been dropped. so those questions have been asked over the last two months, and people have been openly talking about whether there would be an attempt on his life, whether we would see the ritonavir to make a return of mr prigozhin, when he returned to the russian scene? if it's true that he was on board that plane that has crashed, then that's the end of the prigozhin story, this remarkable story of a man who started out as a hot cellar in st. petersburg the 19905 and became the kind of go to man further kremlin, fix—it man for the kremlin when they didn't want people to know about things they were doing, they would go to mr prigozhin — whether it was internet related, internet troll farms, whether it was paramilitary groups, for example in syria, or more recently in ukraine, he was the man who president putin went to to get things done on the quiet. but in recent months, we saw a figure, mr prigozhin becoming publicly critical particularly of the military leadership of russia, correlating publicly with the defence minister, the chief of the general staff, becoming more confident in his outbursts, his audio messages posted online, his videos posted online, critical of russia's war in ukraine, and leading to those events of two months ago, the mutiny. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. we can't confirm yet that mr prigozhin was killed. we know according to the authorities he was on the list of passengers of the plane that crashed. it's of the plane that crashed. not 'ust the anniversary yevgeny it's not just the anniversary of yevgeny prigozhin sku is also the in which _ yevgeny prigozhin sku is also the in which a _ yevgeny prigozhin sku is also the in which a top — yevgeny prigozhin sku is also the in which a top russian general who previously in charge of russian forces — previously in charge of russian forces in — previously in charge of russian forces in route two ukraine may have been involved in that mutiny was also relieved of command. this really underscores _ relieved of command. this really underscores the _ relieved of command. this really underscores the stakes, - relieved of command. this really underscores the stakes, the i relieved of command. this really l underscores the stakes, the power struggle that the war in ukraine hasn't really shown us in russia.