Letby has refused to appear in the dock at Manchester Crown court where bereaved families have been making harrowing statements describing the impact of the murders on their lives. Letby has been convicted of the murder of seven babies and attempting to murder six others at the countess of chester hospital. A short while ago the Prime Minister rishi sunak said it was cowardly for the perpetrators of horrendous crimes not to face their victims. We can go straight to Manchester Crown court. Anna foster is there for us now. As you say, lucy letby has not appeared in the dock this morning. She is here at Manchester Crown court. She was brought here from prison as she has been every day throughout this long running trial, almost ten months, believed to be the longest running murder trial in uk history, but once again she will remain in the Holding Cells and she has not been in the dock of court number seven this morning to hear some of the harrowing, deeply distressing victim Impact Statements which form part of the Sentencing Hearing. This was the moment for the parents of those babies who lucy letby either murdered or attempted to murder at the countess of chester hospital, their chance to really say what they wanted to say about what this had done to them. Many of them gave evidence during this process but giving evidence is very much of actually answering questions from the lawyers in court, but on this occasion in these last few hours they have been able to spend time and really puts the emotion of the ordeal that i have been through into these statements that have been in some cases delivered by the parents themselves and in some cases read out by Legal Counsel in the court to some of the jury members who were involved in this long running trial, the families have filled the Public Gallery of court number seven this morning, and thejudge who gallery of court number seven this morning, and the judge who will decide, he has already decided about who will deliver those Sentencing Remarks for lucy letby which we expect to begin in the next 30 minutes. The prosecution in their Opening Statements this morning have asked for a whole life order. We know lucy letby will be given a significant custodial sentence. There was a mandatory Life Sentence in cases of murder but the prosecution say lucy letby� s crimes were in their words are so premeditated and sadistic that this fulfils the characterisation of an offender who should never be released from court, we should spend the rest of her life behind bars. Let me share with you some of what we have been hearing from those victim Impact Statements, because that really gives you a sense of what these families have been through from giving birth to often very sick premature children, to losing those children in a very distressing way, to then finding out that those children had been murdered by lucy letby and having to sit through this court process. The parents of baby a, a baby boy who was murdered by lucy letby, and baby b, a girl she attempted to murder said, you thought it was your right to pray god with our childrens lives, you thought you could enter our lives and turned upside down, but you will never win. We hope you live a very long life and spent every day suffering from what you have done, and one that really stood out to me was the statement from the mother of baby, baby c. She made the statement in person in the courtroom and was crying in the witness box but she said, in the dark days after my babys that i would open his memory box. I used to wear his hand and footprints around my neck, until either third when lucy letby was arrested ifelt either third when lucy letby was arrested i felt so conflicted. She took those hand and footprints. We have heard from several of the parents in their victim Impact Statements about how of course in many cases the final moments with their children were ones that lucy letby they now know took away from them. The women who had killed their children was a woman who was taking their hand and footprints. Another family talked about how lucy letby was the one who had bathed their child and dressed their child in the ground they would be buried in and how it really those memories have left, as you would expect, and extremely traumatic aftermath. Many of these parents say they have been receiving therapy, that they will continue to receive therapy, and also some of these parents talk about the impact on their surviving children, because of course in some cases lucy letby had attempted to murder these children, but was not successfully, they survived but with really life changing injuries. They in some cases, parents have talked about how their children will never have a normal life, it will never be able to go swimming or play football, so many of those things that they would have wanted for their child have been snatched away from them. Lucy letby was the person who was responsible for that. Of course, one of the real things which will continue to be talked about after that Sentencing Hearing today was the fact that it lucy letby exercised her right not to appear in court and while she was in the courtroom, in the court building, she is remaining in the Holding Cells and she was not taken into the dock. She will again not appear for those Sentencing Remarks. This is the latest in a number of high profile Sentencing Hearings in which convicted murderers have refused to appear in the dock. They include the sentencing in the case of 35 year old sara lena, she was an aspiring lawyer, attacked while she was walking home from a bar in east london, and her aunt said the sentencing was the murderer� s opportunity to be human and face his actions. His absence, she said, was actions. His absence, she said, was a slap in the face. Then there was a nine year old school Garg 0livia Pratt Korbel who was shot by a masked gunman inside her home in liverpool, her mother said the fact that the family had to relive the pain of 0livias death but the offender could choose to opt out of the sentencing was in her words kick in the teeth. Then it was 28 year old sabina nessa who was murdered in a park in south east london. She was a Primary School teacher and her older sister called the murderer who refused to appear a coward. This is something which of course has really attracted a lot of public attention because the whole point of a trial in front of a jury of ones peers, the point of Sentencing Victim Impact Statements, Sentencing Victim Impact Statements, Sentencing Remarks, when you hear later on thejudge mr Sentencing Remarks, when you hear later on the judge Mrjustice Goss address those Sentencing Remarks he will speak as if lucy letby was in the dock to hear them but she wont be and that means there has been real pressure on the uk government to actually change things to compel people to appear in court to face their sentencing to hear the Sentencing Remarks that are made about them and the Prime Minister rishi sunak has been asked about that this morning, about when the law on that might change. The first thing is to extend my sympathies to all affected by this. I think like everyone reading about this, it isjust shocking and harrowing. I think it is cowardly that people who commit such horrendous crimes do not face their victims and hear first hand the impact they have had on the families and loved ones. We are looking and have been at changing the law to make sure that happens and that is something we will bring forward in due course. Should Hospital Managers be as accountable and doctors as nurses . We are setting up an inquiry that will look into everything that happened in this case and it is important that that inquiry first and foremost gets the answer that families need, and ensures we can learn the lessons from what happened, is conducted transparently, and happens as quickly as possible so that is the inquiry we will set up and make sure we deliver on those objectives. On that inquiry should we have a Judge Led Statutory Inquiry . I think the important thing for the inquiry to do is make sure families get the answers they need, that it is possible for us to learn the lessons from what happened, everything conducted transparently and to happen as quickly as possible. Those are the objectives that we want for the inquiry and we will make sure it is set up to deliver on those aims. Lets talk to our home editor mark easton. That was the Prime Minister rishi sunak being asked about the variety of different dishes that have arisen from this trial, but lets begin with the one we started talking about where lucy letby has not appeared in court. This has happened multiple times, just in recent weeks and months, the real pressure now on the government to spend parliamentary time on this and to get the law changed to. I spend parliamentary time on this and to get the law changed to. To get the law changed to. I think there is broad to get the law changed to. I think there is broad political to get the law changed to. I think there is broad political consensus that more there is broad political consensus that more should be done to compel people that more should be done to compel people to that more should be done to compel people to face justice, physically, it is not people to face justice, physically, it is not straightforward. At the moment it is not straightforward. At the momenta it is not straightforward. At the moment a judge can require an offender moment a judge can require an offender to attend their sentencing, to attend offender to attend their sentencing, to attend the witness statements, and prison to attend the witness statements, and Prison Officers do have the power and Prison Officers do have the power to and Prison Officers do have the power to use reasonable force to bring power to use reasonable force to bring that power to use reasonable force to bring that person to the dock. What a judge bring that person to the dock. What a judge cannot do is ask prison staff, a judge cannot do is ask prison staff, custodial officers to use whatever staff, custodial officers to use whatever force is necessary to bring somebody whatever force is necessary to bring somebody who doesnt want to come to the Doch Somebody who doesnt want to come to the dock up somebody who doesnt want to come to the dock up the stairs into a courtroom. That you can understand would courtroom. That you can understand would have courtroom. That you can understand would have problems, because such a power would have problems, because such a power could would have problems, because such a power could very much put the Custody Power could very much put the Custody Officers themselves into a dangerous and volatile situation. And a dangerous and volatile situation. And a further risk that those individuals might face some kind of leal individuals might face some kind of legal action if they go beyond what they are legal action if they go beyond what they are legally empowered to do. Other they are legally empowered to do. Other people have suggested perhaps the court other people have suggested perhaps the Court Proceedings could be broadcast into the holding cell or into a broadcast into the holding cell or into a prison cell so that the prisoner into a prison cell so that the prisoner is forced to at least hear what prisoner is forced to at least hear what is prisoner is forced to at least hear what is going on in the courtroom. I understand what is going on in the courtroom. I understand technically that is not straightforward, court feeds are obviously straightforward, court feeds are obviously tightly controlled and it is hot obviously tightly controlled and it is not easy to try and make that happen is not easy to try and make that happen irr is not easy to try and make that happen in whatever cell and light somebody might be held, so not straightforward and i am not sure that would go far enough for many of the campaigners, there is a Campaign Group the campaigners, there is a Campaign Group called face the family which have a group called face the family which have a parliamentary petition trying to get have a parliamentary petition trying to get the have a parliamentary petition trying to get the law changed. I think one of the to get the law changed. I think one of the other problems and we have seen of the other problems and we have seen it of the other problems and we have seen it hot of the other problems and we have seen it not so long ago is that if you bring seen it not so long ago is that if you bring up an Offender Kicking and screaming you bring up an Offender Kicking and screaming up into the courtroom, use whatever screaming up into the courtroom, use whatever force necessary, what happens whatever force necessary, what happens is all eyes move from the victims happens is all eyes move from the victims in happens is all eyes move from the victims in the court onto the offender victims in the court onto the offender. We saw this in the lee righy offender. We saw this in the lee rigby trial. His killers kicked off in the rigby trial. His killers kicked off in the dock and a judge in the end had to in the dock and a judge in the end had to say in the dock and a judge in the end had to say we are disrupting proceedings and had them taken back down to proceedings and had them taken back down to the self. I think there is a concern down to the self. I think there is a concern here is that if you actually force concern here is that if you actually force people to be in the dock, it could force people to be in the dock, it could make the court room itself almost could make the court room itself almost unmanageable and mean it irecomes almost unmanageable and mean it becomes a almost unmanageable and mean it becomes a theatre where the offender is cehtre becomes a theatre where the offender Is Centre Stage rather and as it should Is Centre Stage rather and as it should be Is Centre Stage rather and as it should be the victims. In Is Centre Stage rather and as it should be the victims. In many cases the sentencing should be the victims. In many cases the Sentencing Hearing should be the victims. In many cases the Sentencing Hearing marks should be the victims. In many casesl the Sentencing Hearing marks perhaps the Sentencing Hearing marks perhaps the end of a focus of attention on a particular case but that wont happen here because there are so many questions to be asked about how lucy letby was able to continue Practising Medicine after concerns were raised and also a further look at a wider span of her Nursing Career as well. At a wider span of her Nursing Career as well. ~ ,. ,. ,. , career as well. Absolutely and that is exactly what career as well. Absolutely and that is exactly what you career as well. Absolutely and that is exactly what you would career as well. Absolutely and that is exactly what you would expect i career as well. Absolutely and that | is exactly what you would expect to happen is exactly what you would expect to happen in is exactly what you would expect to happen in a is exactly what you would expect to happen in a really high profile case like this happen in a really high profile case like this in happen in a really high profile case like this in which the public anguish like this in which the public anguish of the victims is so evident but indeed anguish of the victims is so evident but indeed i think this is something that exploded onto the National Consciousness in a way where almost everybody consciousness in a way where almost everybody has felt really upset by this particular case, so lessons, people this particular case, so lessons, people will this particular case, so lessons, people will say that the lessons to be learned. I would say this, and many be learned. I would say this, and many people have said this, we have had inquiries into scandals within the health had inquiries into scandals within the Health Service and other institutions as well, where you have Whistle Blowers saying this person is a problem and nothing has happened and the inquiries have said we need happened and the inquiries have said we need to happened and the inquiries have said we need to tighten up the rules and we need to tighten up the rules and we now we need to tighten up the rules and we now have a duty of candour within the national we now have a duty of candour within the national Health Service and so on. The national Health Service and so on while the national Health Service and so on. While the rhetoric is all there and sometimes even formal steps are taken, and sometimes even formal steps are taken, what and sometimes even formal steps are taken, what we dont yet have is any kind of taken, what we dont yet have is any kind of formal structure to check that progress is being made. I do wonder that progress is being made. I do wonder whether with this inquiry, whether wonder whether with this inquiry, whether it wonder whether with this inquiry, whether it is a Statutory Public inquiry whether it is a Statutory Public inquiry or whether it is a Statutory Public inquiry or not, one of the aspects of people inquiry or not, one of the aspects of people will want to look at is how we of people will want to look at is how we can make sure inquiries of this kind, how we can make sure inquiries of this kind, of how we can make sure inquiries of this kind, of which there have been many this kind, of which there have been many over this kind, of which there have been many over the years, actually does achieve many over the years, actually does achieve the many over the years, actually does achieve the kind of change but it recommends and so often politicians say they recommends and so often politicians say they are determined to achieve. What say they are determined to achieve. What about say they are determined to achieve. What about those people, we talked about senior figures who were in positions of responsibility at the trust at the time of these crimes being committed, who in some cases have been accused of not responding as quickly as they should have been . What Potential Recourse is there in those cases if any at all . We what Potential Recourse is there in those cases if any at all . Those cases if any at all . We have seen one senior those cases if any at all . We have seen one senior nurse those cases if any at all . We have seen one senior nurse who those cases if any at all . We have seen one senior nurse who is those cases if any at all . We have seen one senior nurse who is still| seen one senior nurse who is still on the seen one senior nurse who is still on the hospital staff, she has been suspended, a number of other people have left suspended, a number of other people have left the Health Service and effectively retired. I think that is one of effectively retired. I think that is one of the effectively retired. I think that is one of the arguments around the inquiry, one of the arguments around the inquiry, to one of the arguments around the inquiry, to what extent should it have inquiry, to what extent should it have the inquiry, to what extent should it have the power to compel people to come have the power to compel people to come and have the power to compel people to come and give evidence at that inquiry . Come and give evidence at that inquiry . I come and give evidence at that inquiry . I think this is perhaps one of the inquiry . I think this is perhaps one of the stronger arguments for making it a full of the stronger arguments for making it a full public inquiry, that those individuals it a full public inquiry, that those individuals would then have to give evidence individuals would then have to give evidence under oath and in those circumstances they would obviously face those circumstances they would obviously face those difficult questions about their behaviour in the past. That is one of their behaviour in the past. That is one of those their behaviour in the past. That is one of those arguments. Actually achievinq one of those arguments. Actually achieving change now that is going to make achieving change now that is going to make a achieving change now that is going to make a real difference in the future, to make a real difference in the future, that is much more problematic because we have seen so many problematic because we have seen so many initiatives over so many years and institutions are so reluctant to generally and institutions are so reluctant to generally to do anything that will damage generally to do anything that will damage the institution. Being transparent sounds great on paper but if transparent sounds great on paper but if you transparent sounds great on paper but if you are an institution it can be enormously unhelpful and certainly for Something Like the health certainly for Something Like the Health Service, already facing huge challenges, enormous difficulty, and a period challenges, enormous difficulty, and a period in challenges, enormous difficulty, and a period in which they find themselves having to repeal all the problems themselves having to repeal all the problems that exist under the surface, problems that exist under the surface, that in itself can make things surface, that in itself can make things worse for a time above the counter things worse for a time above the counter argument has to be that if we really counter argument has to be that if we really want our institutions to behave we really want our institutions to behave properly and ensure people like lucy behave properly and ensure people like lucy letby cant get away with this appalling behaviour for so long. This appalling behaviour for so long. We this appalling behaviour for so long, we do need to have that transparency and openness in our public transparency and openness in our public institutions. Public institutions. Thank you. Lets focus public institutions. Thank you. Lets focus in public institutions. Thank you. Lets focus in more public institutions. Thank you. Lets focus in more detail public institutions. Thank you. | lets focus in more detail about what we discussed at the beginning, the fact lucy letby will not appear in court today, she has not been present for any of the victim Impact Statements and she will not be present for the judges� Sentencing Remarks either. That has been referred to by the families and some of their statements and i want to bring one of them, to give you a sense of how distressing that element of things is where the families involved. This is the mother of baby and baby f who was speaking in court this morning addressing remarks that she should have been there to hear it, she said the trial felt like a platform for lucy to relive her crimes, even in these final days of the trial she has tried to control things. The disrespect she has shown the families and the court showed what type of person she is. We have attended court day in and day out yet she decides she has had an and stayed in her so, just one final act of wickedness from a coward. Let� s discuss that with the conservative mp sir bob neill who is the chairman of thejustice mp sir bob neill who is the chairman of the Justice Select Committee mp sir bob neill who is the chairman of theJustice Select Committee of the house of commons. Thank you for joining us. As we have been saying, there are moves underfoot to try and change this. How close is that it actually happening . It is change this. How close is that it actually happening . Change this. How close is that it actually happening . It is clear that it is very distressing, actually happening . It is clear that it is very distressing, what actually happening . It is clear that it is very distressing, what the it is very distressing, what the family it is very distressing, what the family red it is very distressing, what the family red out there, and there is real anqer family red out there, and there is real anger about the fact some defendants in high profile cases have defendants in high profile cases have chosen to be behave in this regard have chosen to be behave in this regard and have chosen to be behave in this regard and it is cowardly and disrespectful, and it is able so i totally disrespectful, and it is able so i totally understand what the family have just totally understand what the family have just said. The one thing we have have just said. The one thing we have to have just said. The one thing we have to bear in mind is this. As mark have to bear in mind is this. As mark easton was saying, in practice it is not mark easton was saying, in practice it is not quite as easy as it might initially it is not quite as easy as it might initially appear. Ultimately the decision initially appear. Ultimately the decision as to what happens in the Court Decision as to what happens in the court room decision as to what happens in the court room must be in the hands of the Trial Court Room must be in the hands of the trialjudge, who is presiding over the trialjudge, who is presiding over the the trialjudge, who is presiding over the case. At the moment it is possible over the case. At the moment it is possible for over the case. At the moment it is possible for the judge to order the person possible for the judge to order the person to possible for the judge to order the person to attend court but manhandling them up into the dock if they are manhandling them up into the dock if they are reluctant is a very different they are reluctant is a very different matter. The real risk if they different matter. The real risk if they are different matter. The real risk if they are not careful about this is exactly they are not careful about this is exactly as they are not careful about this is exactly as we set out, very frequently in my experience is 30 years frequently in my experience is 30 years as frequently in my experience is 30 years as a frequently in my experience is 30 years as a barrister before i became an mp. Years as a barrister before i became an mp. The years as a barrister before i became an mp, the prosecution defended in murder an mp, the prosecution defended in murder cases, often the people that commit murder cases, often the people that commit these awful crimes are arroqant commit these awful crimes are arrogant and controlled and the risk is that arrogant and controlled and the risk is that it arrogant and controlled and the risk is that it would actually turn the Sentencing Hearing into the something of a theatre so we have to be careful something of a theatre so we have to be careful how we judge it. It wouldnt be careful how we judge it. It wouldnt help bereaved and grieving families wouldnt help bereaved and grieving families if wouldnt help bereaved and grieving families if you had a defendant forced families if you had a defendant forced into the doc who then continuously interrupted the proceedings, it would surely only add to proceedings, it would surely only add to their anguish so that is why we have add to their anguish so that is why we have to add to their anguish so that is why we have to be careful about how we do it, we have to be careful about how we do it, Everyone Wants to understand what we do it, Everyone Wants to understand what we try do it, Everyone Wants to understand what we try to achieve and shouldnt escape what we try to achieve and shouldnt escape the what we try to achieve and shouldnt escape the consequence but the government are right to say we must tighten government are right to say we must tighten the government are right to say we must tighten the rules up but we have to be careful tighten the rules up but we have to be careful about how we do it. What alternatives be careful about how we do it. What alternatives do be careful about how we do it. What alternatives do you be careful about how we do it. Twist alternatives do you think could be careful about how we do it. Transit alternatives do you think could be explored . What is interesting again listening to the victim Impact Statements is the idea that at this Point Somebody who is a convicted murderer should be able to exercise that level of control that should now be relinquished by that point. The problem is if somebody is disruptive in the courtroom, and we have disruptive in the courtroom, and we have seen disruptive in the courtroom, and we have seen It Disruptive in the courtroom, and we have seen it in the lee rigby case, they start have seen it in the lee rigby case, they start to try and take over proceedings, what with the trial judqe proceedings, what with the trial judqe do proceedings, what with the trial judge do if was the victim Impact Statements were being read out for given statements were being read out for given in statements were being read out for given in evidence by families, the defendants was settling abuse while Bein Defendants was settling abuse while being offensive and was actually creatinq being offensive and was actually creating an attack upon the families, what with the trialjudge to do . Families, what with the trialjudge to do . He families, what with the trialjudge to do . He would have to stop the case to do . He would have to stop the case and to do . He would have to stop the case and the only result they had now is case and the only result they had now is to case and the only result they had now is to send the defendant down to the cells now is to send the defendant down to the cells. The irony is that is exactly the cells. The irony is that is exactly what these controlling and arrogant exactly what these controlling and arrogant defendants want to do so you dont arrogant defendants want to do so you dont want to play to their own hands you dont want to play to their own hands in you dont want to play to their own hands in that regard. 0n the other hand hands in that regard. 0n the other hand do hands in that regard. 0n the other hand do you hands in that regard. 0n the other hand do you want in a British Court people hand do you want in a British Court people who hand do you want in a British Court people who are brought up manacled and what people who are brought up manacled and what do you do if they start shoutinq . And what do you do if they start shouting . You surely couldnt do that in shouting . You surely couldnt do that in a shouting . You surely couldnt do that in a British Court. The idea that that in a British Court. The idea that has that in a British Court. The idea that has been posited of forcing them that has been posited of forcing them to that has been posited of forcing them to hear the Sentencing Remarks remotely them to hear the Sentencing Remarks remotely might be the most practical solution, remotely might be the most practical solution, coupled with some sanctions about the tariff they are going sanctions about the tariff they are going to sanctions about the tariff they are going to serve and the regime that they qualify for any conditions, it is not they qualify for any conditions, it is not ideal they qualify for any conditions, it is not ideal and it would be ideal for all is not ideal and it would be ideal for all the is not ideal and it would be ideal for all the families that wont be ideal for all the families that wont be ideal for for all the families that wont be ideal for other families but we shouldnt ideal for other families but we shouldnt have unintended consequences in the changes have to make consequences in the changes have to make. , consequences in the changes have to make. Consequences in the changes have to make. , ,. , consequences in the changes have to make. ,. , make. This is something you have seen yourself make. This is something you have seen yourself many make. This is something you have seen yourself many times. Make. This is something you have seen yourself many times. The i make. This is something you have seen yourself many times. The impact of seeing somebody, seeing the person who in this case the person who murdered your child, to see though Sentencing Remarks delivered, what does that mean to the family because they have had the verdict now. It is a difficult thing to try and explain, why a moment like this is so important to families, that they should be able to witness at reaction. , ,. ,. ,. , reaction. The whole concept of an im act reaction. The whole concept of an Impact Statement reaction. The whole concept of an Impact Statement was reaction. The whole concept of an Impact Statement was brought. Reaction. The whole concept of an Impact Statement was brought in | Impact Statement was brought in because Impact Statement was brought in because it is a part of it, to get through because it is a part of it, to get through some catharsis, to have some ability through some catharsis, to have some ability not through some catharsis, to have some ability not purely to be spectators in the ability not purely to be spectators in the process. Having a person here that is in the process. Having a person here that is important. Ideally you would want to that is important. Ideally you would want to do that is important. Ideally you would want to do that face to face and look want to do that face to face and look them want to do that face to face and look them in the whites of the eyes, the most look them in the whites of the eyes, the most natural thing. More often than not the most natural thing. More often than not that is exactly what happens than not that is exactly what happens but there will be certain circumstances where people because of the circumstances where people because of the wicked nature of their character of the wicked nature of their Character Reviews to be present and then how Character Reviews to be present and then how best you deal with that, that is then how best you deal with that, that is the then how best you deal with that, that is the conundrum we have to deal with that is the conundrum we have to dealwith. It that is the conundrum we have to deal with. It is important possibly for the deal with. It is important possibly for the families even though they would for the families even though they would prefer the defendant to be there would prefer the defendant to be there and not be face to face, nonetheless to be able to say it and to have nonetheless to be able to say it and to have what they want to say about their loved to have what they want to say about their loved one on the record, so it is there their loved one on the record, so it is there in their loved one on the record, so it is there in the Public Domain and then is there in the Public Domain and then the is there in the Public Domain and then the judge will refer to it in their then the judge will refer to it in their Sentencing Remarks, which i think their Sentencing Remarks, which i think will their Sentencing Remarks, which i think will ensure are heard by the Defendant Think will ensure are heard by the defendant even if we have to do that in one defendant even if we have to do that in one of defendant even if we have to do that in one of the Video Link Cells where it is much in one of the Video Link Cells where it is much more easy for the Prison Officers it is much more easy for the Prison Officers to it is much more easy for the Prison Officers to take some physical Control Officers to take some physical control rather than take them up and stares control rather than take them up and stares into control rather than take them up and stares into the docks, so not the ideal stares into the docks, so not the ideal solution. But that is the potential way forward so that is why the ability potential way forward so that is why the ability to have the Victim Impact the ability to have the victim Impact Statement is so important. Thank Impact Statement is so important. Thank you Impact Statement is so important. Thank you forjoining us. We have been bringing you some of those really distressing and harrowing victim Impact Statements that have been delivered in court this morning, both by the families themselves, and person in some cases and also in some cases read out by Legal Counsel, statements that have been painstakingly and emotionally written by the families of the victims in this case ahead of the sentencing which is expected to get under way in the next ten minutes, by which i mean the actual Sentencing Remarks that the judge will deliver in lucy letby� s absence as he describes the sentence which he has decided to hand down, no doubt a long custodial sentence, potentially the prosecution have been asking for a whole life order but we will find out what the judge says very soon. We have also been talking about themes that will continue after today and one is how this could have happened, how they letby was able to offend and crucially how when colleagues of hers, senior medical colleagues, consultants who raised concerns found themselves not being listened to. Doctor Malcolm Stewart is with us, a retired Medical Director and Regional Medical adviser. Thank you forjoining us. This is something no doubt which will be covered by the independent inquiry which has already been announced, what do you think needs to be looked at to try and make sure this kind of thing can� t happen again in a current medical setting . Thing cant happen again in a current medical setting . Good afternoon current medical setting . Good afternoon. Can current medical setting . Good afternoon. Can i current medical setting . Good afternoon. Can i extend current medical setting . Good afternoon. Can i extend my. Current medical setting . Good afternoon. Can i extend my deepest sympathies to the families of the Bereaved Sympathies to the families of the bereaved for him this was to be even more bereaved for him this was to be even more upsetting now . In answer to your question, there are some key questions your question, there are some key questions that undoubtedly the Inquiry Questions that undoubtedly the inquiry will want to ask. These are probably inquiry will want to ask. These are probably five, if the trust have a policy probably five, if the trust have a policy for probably five, if the trust have a policy for raising clinical concerns and was policy for raising clinical concerns and was followed, fit for purpose and was followed, fit for purpose and did and was followed, fit for purpose and did it and was followed, fit for purpose and did it report to board . Any adverse and did it report to board . Any adverse and unexpected outcomes we have heard adverse and unexpected outcomes we have heard about presented and discussed with earning points identified and actions locked, that the relevant. And with these upwardly reported . Did a member of the board upwardly reported . Did a member of the board to attend or share the clinical the board to attend or share the clinical governance of Patient Safety clinical governance of Patient Safety committee and trust . What actions Safety Committee and trust . What actions did the Medical Director and Director Actions did the Medical Director and director of actions did the Medical Director and Director Of Nursing take when concerns Director Of Nursing take when concerns were brought to themselves, now escalated and to whom . And finally now escalated and to whom . And finally how did they assure themselves and the board that the necessary themselves and the board that the necessary systems of clinical governments and reasonable assistance to ensure Patient Safety, that these assistance to ensure Patient Safety, that these were in place and crucially that these were in place and crucially were effective . In my experience in each of the trust in Difficulty Experience in each of the trust in difficulty that i visited they would have claim to have some systems for what they have claim to have some systems for what they did not have were effective assistance. To what they did not have were effective assistance. To what extent are guidelines effective assistance. To what extent are guidelines and effective assistance. To what extent are guidelines and processes effective assistance. To what extent are guidelines and processes like i are guidelines and processes like this decided centrally and to what extent are they up to the individual trusts . ~. ,. , , extent are they up to the individual trusts . N. ,. , , extent are they up to the individual trusts . ~. , ,. , extent are they up to the individual trusts . ,. , trusts . Accountability rest at every sinale trusts . Accountability rest at every single level trusts . Accountability rest at every single level in trusts . Accountability rest at every single level in the trusts . Accountability rest at every single level in the health trusts . Accountability rest at every single level in the Health Service. L single level in the Health Service. With all single level in the Health Service. With all members of staff but ultimately with the board and in particular ultimately with the board and in particular with those who hold the Executive Particular with those who hold the Executive Directors to account who delivery Executive Directors to account who delivery statutory obligations with regard delivery statutory obligations with regard to Patient Safety. What were looking regard to Patient Safety. What were looking here is not an inadequate central looking here is not an inadequate central mechanism but what some of the systems have identified concerns, but they were not adequately followed through. This is adequately followed through. This is a common adequately followed through. This is a common theme in these cases of clinical a common theme in these cases of clinical safety. There. The first would clinical safety. There. The first would be clinical safety. There. The first would be ensuring there is a Nonexecutive Director sitting on or chairing Nonexecutive Director sitting on or chairing the principal Clinical Governance Committee in a trust in concerns Governance Committee in a trust in concerns could become an you would not have concerns could become an you would not have a concerns could become an you would not have a situation where the chairman not have a situation where the Chairman Of The Board could state the Board Chairman of the board could state the board was not cited, Nonexecutive Scrutiny of clinical practice Nonexecutive Scrutiny of clinical practice would be much stronger if at least practice would be much stronger if at least one of the nonExecutive Directors at least one of the nonExecutive Directors of clinical background, and thirdly an external review by whichever and thirdly an external review by whichever agency and there are many and if whichever agency and there are many and if work whichever agency and there are many and if work would be good which take place for and if work would be good which take place for each trust, if Greatest Retreat place for each trust, if Greatest Retreat would be placed on whether the governance systems in a trust are effective rather thanjust in place are effective rather than ust in lace. ~ , are effective rather than ust in lace. , ~ y. ,. , are effective rather than ust in lace. ~. ,. , place. Thank you for oining us. Talkin place. Thank you for oining us. Talking about t place. Thank you for oining us. Talking about some place. Thank you forjoining us. Talking about some of place. Thank you forjoining us. Talking about some of those i place. Thank you forjoining us. Talking about some of those further themes that will be explored both in themes that will be explored both in the independent inquiry into lucy letby� s offending and which no doubt will be looked at my Hospital Trusts up will be looked at my Hospital Trusts up and down the country as a result of this is a no doubt review their own procedures in the wake of this distressing and harrowing case. I will tell you what is coming up in the next few minutes because the judge Mrjustice Goss has indicated he would begin his Sentencing Remarks at 12 30pm. Many people are backin remarks at 12 30pm. Many people are back in the court now. There are two Dock Officers in the dock but lucy letby as expected is not there, not in the dock in court number seven to hear the Sentencing Remarks that will be passed in the same way she was not in the dock to hear the victim Impact Statements this morning and she was not in the dock at the conclusion of her trial to hear there was verdicts that were passed down at the end of last week. You will be able to see and watch though Sentencing Remarks here on bbc news. This is something quite new because for many years there were not cameras in the courtroom is but it is something that has been tried now in a small weight where Certain Court cases and trials, we do get to see the Inner Workings of the courtroom and in this case with this trial it was decided the judges statements, his remarks, Sentencing Remarks and his statements would be broadcast. You will see on your screen the judge, Mrjustice Goss, and his Sentencing Remarks will be delivered in several parts. You will sum up this case, some of the detail of lucy letby and her crimes. There will be section where he will talk individually, in detail, about the babies that are lucy letby murdered or attempted to murder. This will look different on your screen. Throughout the reporting on this trial, the whole media have not been using the names of the babies and their parents. They have been protected, anonymized in order to protected, anonymized in order to protect their privacy as they go through this difficult time and also to protect the privacy of surviving siblings. Some of those babies. What you will see in the central section, the moments at which Mrjustice Goss names the babies and the families. You will see the picture of him on the screen, it cut back, and it