meeting was held. the medical director, ian harvey, gave a verbal report. he said external reviews had not highlighted any individual as being linked to the deaths and that the trust was ready to draw a line under the issues. the chief executive, tony chambers, said he'd met lucy letby and her parents to apologise for what had happened. a statement written by letby was read out detailing how hard the past few months had been for her. the meeting decided lucy letby would return to the neonatal unit after the paediatricians had written a letter apologising to her. this is the letter they sent lucy letby, signed by all seven of the paediatricians in the unit. against their wishes, they apologised for any inappropriate comments that may have been made, going on to say, "we are very sorry for the stress and upset you have experienced in the last year." though the paediatricians feared being reported to the regulator, they kept going, pressurising executives to call the police, something the trust did eventually in 2017. the reputation of the organisation and protecting that reputation was a big factor in how people responded to the concerns raised. they were dragged kicking and screaming, the executive team, to call in the police. that would certainly be the conclusion that i would reach. at the time letby was arrested in july 2018, she was still working at the trust. no disciplinary action had been taken against her. the strong opinion was that there would be found. there was a brief overlap of three or four days between myself and the outgoing medical director, and his parting words to me, to my surprise, were, "you need to refer the paediatricians to the gmc." they were not referred to the general medical council. instead, all the executives who doubted the doctors and supported lucy letby left the countess of chester trust. they all refused to comment ahead of tofay�*s verdict. michael buchanan, bbc news, cheshire. and you can watch a documentary about this case on the bbc iplayer — it's a panorama programme, �*lucy letby: the nurse who killed' you can see it and have an hour's time in much the addition on bbc news at 11 o'clock this evening. breaking news here today from manchester crown court. the nurse lucy letby in the neonatal unit found guilty of the murder of seven babies in her care and the attempted murder of a further six. she was charged with 22 counts of murder and attempted murder overall and a correspondent has been here throughout the trial and he breaks down the trial and some of those verdicts. i think that this goes to show the complexity in this case that it was not a clear narrative and they needed to be a lot of breakdowns and some children, numerous counsel one child and this is because lucy letby was accused of attacking children on multiple and taking the case of baby cheek, this child at three attempts on her life and two of those cases, the jury found her guilty on her life and two of those cases, thejury found her guilty —— baby g. it may seem difficult to understand just so you can find something and guilty on two counts but not on another but during the trial, discount related to the fact that the allegation was that lucy letby turned off a life—saving monitor of this child during the course of the evidence, a doctor agreed with the news that he had forgotten to turn this monitor back on which is why thejury have this monitor back on which is why the jury have listened to that is the jury have listened to that is the evidence came out and concluded they could not find her guilty on they could not find her guilty on the charge. it's similar for some of the charge. it's similar for some of the other children in this case in light of it hinged on medical expert evidence. in the case of baby h, they could not give a reason as to why this child had collapsed and on one another count, the jury could not find lucy letby guilty and so, given the amount of time the maturity had been out in the numerous counts in this case, different circumstances and scenarios, goes to show this was a very challenging trial, not least because of the subject matter but also because the level of detail in this case. , , . this case. they deliberated in total, the _ this case. they deliberated in total, the 22nd _ this case. they deliberated in total, the 22nd day _ this case. they deliberated in total, the 22nd day of- this case. they deliberated in - total, the 22nd day of deliberation and more than 110 hours they spent discussing at least 22 counts and particularly interesting was the evidence because throughout and you were in court to hear all of this. the defence case was very much the evidence was not in place. this evidence was not in place. this evidence was not in place. this evidence was circumstantial and there was necessarily anything too tired to lucy letby you look into this as a body of evidence, as a series of incidents, that in itself leads to a suggestion of guilt. the? leads to a suggestion of guilt. they -ushed leads to a suggestion of guilt. they ushed a leads to a suggestion of guilt. they pushed a lot _ leads to a suggestion of guilt. they pushed a lot on _ leads to a suggestion of guilt. tie pushed a lot on the science and questioned the veracity of the stuff in the injection of air which caused many of his collapses and that's the conclusion of this is a motion to dismiss this case and is suitable it was weakened by the jury cannot be directed to find the defendant guilty on the back of this. allow the signs related to a 1989 medical paper which studied this area and they used this paper is on the foundations to describe and give a bit more colour to what the medical professionals are actually seeing the pupae question the veracity of this and that he did not stack up and there was no way to really fairly traceable on the back of this but today, the jury of disagreed with that point. find but today, the jury of disagreed with that point.— but today, the jury of disagreed with that point. and this was with 12 members _ with that point. and this was with 12 members of— with that point. and this was with 12 members of the _ with that point. and this was with 12 members of the top _ with that point. and this was with 12 members of the top of- with that point. and this was with 12 members of the top of the - with that point. and this was with i 12 members of the top of the length of this trial and during the deliberation process, one of them was discharged for the judge called good personal reasons. and we're left with 11 and the judge then directed that he will accept majority verdicts and in this case, from the verdicts were unanimous in the way the verdicts were returned were quite staggered and broken the jury were quite staggered and broken the jury in last tuesday around 76 hours of deliberation and essentially what they're up to when they returned with two unanimous verdict on the insulin cases of pbf and al who were poisoned by lucy letby. after those cases were returned, thejudge poisoned by lucy letby. after those cases were returned, the judge gave them a majority direction which meant that they could now, ten of them agreed and when disagreed but we have to wait a couple more days for thejudge to bring them back into court again after 86 hours, this was last friday in a very dramatic moment in court on the jury came back and deliver those first four murder guilty charges and lucy letby sat with her head bowed in court and they said no, you cannot be serious and wept as families also wept and gasped at this first set of serious verdicts against lucy letby. get a couple more days this week with the jurors of compact and returned with more verdict —— had come back and returned with more verdicts. coming back in court to check the progress shows the complexity of this case. spending the whole of _ complexity of this case. spending the whole of the _ complexity of this case. spending the whole of the trial— complexity of this case. spending the whole of the trial and - complexity of this case. spending the whole of the trial and let's . the whole of the trial and let's listen to the medical evidence, forensic evidence provided by both the prosecution and the defence and we heard on the court steps not long after the conclusion, statement from the police family liaison officer and the babies involved in the families identities are protected and we heard the information to the liaison officer better correspondent has followed this case and it's been speaking to the parents of twin boys were among lucy letby�*s victims and they said she should spend the rest of her life behind bars. she will be sentenced on monday found guilty of seven counts of murder which carries a mandatory life sentence will find out that sentences on monday but they have talked about the severity of her crimes and the parents of these twin boys don't think she should ever be released from prison. she killed the first of those boys with an injection of air into his bloodstream and very shortly afterwards, check picture of the second of those twin babies with an injection of insulin. the medics are able to save his life but he has been left as a result of these actions, with severe learning difficulties and those parents have been speaking tojudith morris. in the corridor, i could immediately hear crying. it was... it felt more than crying. it was screaming. it was screaming, and i was like, what... what's the matter with them? i walked into the room. i seen her with my boy, and he had blood round his mouth, and lucy was there. but faffing about. you know when it feels like somebody wants to look busy but they're not actually doing anything? what did lucy letby say to you? lucy said, "now, don't worry." she has this really... calm demeanour about her. and she is, you know, very, very softly spoken. and, "don't worry," the registrar was coming, she'd already contacted him, he was on his way, and she told me to go back to the ward. i was trying to reassure my wife that, "listen, these people are experts and, you know, if they say there is not a problem, you've got nothing to worry about." that was the first phone call. quickly followed up by a second phone call with a midwife saying, "you need to get here now." and there was a third phone call telling me, "where are you? the priest has been called." and ijust knew. i knew at that point, you know, you don't call a priest unless someone's dying. what could you see? we were taken in. and we were told to talk to him and hold his hand. he was christened. the consultant said, "you know what? we're going to stop. we want him to die in your arms... rather than being worked on." so we said, "ok." and they passed him to us. and he died. can you just talk me through what happened in the aftermath of losing your first child? how was your other son doing? one of the nurses said, you know, "he's not... he's not well. his heart rate is really, really high." what was your first thought? "it's happening again." i thought it was happening again. and... i said to my husband, "please, not again. we can't do this again. this can't be happening." it's... almost bang on 2a hours since our other son had died. so i went and... ..isat... ..with him all night. his heartrate was absolutely through the roof. you know, it didn't come down, and i wasjust like, "just come down," you know. and i'm almost trying to will the machine, you know... "bring his heartrate down, bring his heartrate. make it ok." and did he recover easily? he's got severe learning difficulties. he's got a lot of complex needs. is it your belief that that's connected... yes. ..to what happened? yes. directly as a consequence? it was a consequence, and he's living with it. what do you think when you go into court and you look at lucy letby? i think she's a hateful human being. she's taken everything from us. absolutely everything. it'sjust beyond your imagination that somebody's on a ward, killing babies. it's unbelievable. because what she's done... ..has changed the course of our life forever. treated in the neonatal unit and then to the murders or attempted murders of those babies, those horrifying death of the parents of the live through in the process of finding out that the nurse was supposed be looking after the children was responsible for the deaths of the child he had to sit through here and i think listening to the emotion there, it really is distressing story and if you do find yourself looking for a bit of extra support or advice because of some of the distressing details of the story, you can find to be good to the bbc news app, or the bbc news website, and if you look for bbc action line, you'll find the whole list of organisations they can give advice and support, something that may help you if you understand finding this particularly difficult story to follow in some of the emotions and testimonies like that one that we have just been hearing. let's talk to caroline, and media lecturer at the university and co—host of the trial of lucy letby podcast. thank you forjoining us it's probably a good place to start, the huge amount of distressing evidence and the impact it's had on the families and so many people who have been involved in this very long—running court case. the have been involved in this very long-running court case. the breach of trust on — long-running court case. the breach of trust on every _ long-running court case. the breach of trust on every level— long-running court case. the breach of trust on every level is _ long-running court case. the breach of trust on every level is beyond - of trust on every level is beyond comprehension, notjust as families wejust heard from comprehension, notjust as families we just heard from him, comprehension, notjust as families wejust heard from him, but comprehension, notjust as families we just heard from him, but the parents of those twins and more parents of those twins and more parents they spoken to, the parents of the twins, both of them survived, notjust of the twins, both of them survived, not just the of the twins, both of them survived, notjust the massive breach of trust of these children and families, parents and grandparents, but the colleagues. anyone who has experience at the neonatal unit knows these nurses and doctors are life—savers, they are incredible. and we heard a lot in the trial about thinking the unthinkable and no one wanted to think that this could be possible. as you heard in the clip from the father. how could a nurse on a ward do something like this. the manipulation, the fact that she altered records, she was clever, she was calculating and she pulled the wool over the eyes of her colleagues. they did not think ever for a minute that she was responsible. it started with her being an association, she was in the room, she was around a lot and that raised concerns. but i don't think anyone actually thought a nurse was operating in plain sight on a ward and using the most innocuous of materials, milk, air, celine to attack and kill the babies that she is looking after. tell attack and kill the babies that she is looking after.— is looking after. tell us little more about _ is looking after. tell us little more about what _ is looking after. tell us little more about what we - is looking after. tell us little more about what we learned is looking after. tell us little - more about what we learned about lucy letby during this trial because the child was focused on the social media posts in the messages that she had exchanged with friends and pictures of her on nights out and holidays, such a contrast to what was presented by this young woman who was seemingly so normal, so ordinary yet at the same time was committing the most heinous of crimes. ~ . . ., . crimes. we heard a lot about text messates crimes. we heard a lot about text messages that — crimes. we heard a lot about text messages that she _ crimes. we heard a lot about text messages that she would - crimes. we heard a lot about text messages that she would send i crimes. we heard a lot about text i messages that she would send when she left the ward to various colleagues and someone described to me as they were possibly deemed to be narcissism but also covert narcissism is not about me, but the babies comments about the families, those poorfamilies that babies comments about the families, those poor families that morbid curiosity of the families in the sink and bided their children, dressing them, during memory boxes with them and as you alluded to, she was a normal 20 something she's been described as being vanilla. in nondescript but then we knew she had a normal social life, she had friends, she described the nurses on her unit is family, they were close, she went salsa dancing with one of them and went to ibiza and during them and went to ibiza and during the trial, when she came back from ibiza and the attack on the baby and her brother was on the very next shift and she sent a text the night before that said, i'll be back with the bank in the following day, heard that two of the triplets were attacked and died. i5 that two of the triplets were attacked and died.— that two of the triplets were attacked and died. is part of that evidence, among _ attacked and died. is part of that evidence, among the _ attacked and died. is part of that evidence, among the very - attacked and died. is part of that| evidence, among the very normal things that are found in her home, diaries, photographs and a picture of a sympathy card that she had sent to the parents of others babies and one of these notes, these handwritten notes where she wrote on one of them, i did this. she handwritten notes where she wrote on one of them, i did this.— one of them, i did this. she did and fathom it, one of them, i did this. she did and fathom it. its— one of them, i did this. she did and fathom it, it's unfathomable to - one of them, i did this. she did and fathom it, it's unfathomable to be l fathom it, it's unfathomable to be spoken to the senior officer in the case who is convinced that she left those notes for them to find. she knew that the police are investigating and had been moved off that ward and they were talking to your colleagues and their are firmly of the belief that she knew they were investigating and yet, when they go interest her and that footage of that arrest, they find a treasure trove of evidence. those notes in their hand written, i'm evil, i did this. i don't deserve to live. 0n post—it notes and then, and dozens of handover sheets. sheets that should never be removed from a hospital unit taken home and put in banks, shopping bags under beds and garages. itjust goes back to the fact that there is currently no motive. these families have some answers and certainly some of them we know that for four of these babies, there is no verdict yet in these cases that might come back and there may be a retrial in the prosecution are now considering that they have 28 days to consider whether they're going to retry lucy letby on six counts of attempted murder, which thejury letby on six counts of attempted murder, which the jury could not find verdicts on today. those families don't have answers but even for the families who do have contact teddy my convictions today, they do not have answers today and there's not have answers today and there's no reason, no motive, nothing that anyone can find in her background that could alluded to why this is happening. and injune, 2015, nothing happened that made lucy letby start doing this. there is no evidence that some event took place that caused her to start attacking the children she was caring for. and we now know that the police involved in her medical review of all the babies that had been in her care heading back to 2011. me babies that had been in her care heading back to 2011.— babies that had been in her care heading back to 2011. we also heard about her personality, _ heading back to 2011. we also heard about her personality, the _ heading back to 2011. we also heard about her personality, the way - heading back to 2011. we also heard about her personality, the way that| about her personality, the way that she was considered on the ward, the fact that she was like to have friends but when concerns started to be raised about her behaviour, but her presence, when these babies for having these catastrophic episodes. in fact, in the first instance, they were dismissed. consultants working on the ward at the conclusion of the straws so that you had a whistle—blower and the concerns were not taken seriously. thea;r whistle-blower and the concerns were not taken seriously.— not taken seriously. they were not taken serious _ not taken seriously. they were not taken serious for _ not taken seriously. they were not taken serious for months - not taken seriously. they were not taken serious for months and - not taken seriously. they were not l taken serious for months and there's going to be an inquiry in certainly, the parents of baby baby and baby urfan many babies died on that unit and they died unexpectedly and we were told by medics by the police that evenin told by medics by the police that even in the neonatal unit where babies are fragile and premature and need a lot of care, they come in and they grow and they go home. unless the doctors are aware of something and what was the key in this case was that it was unexpected. they didn't expect these babies to collapse and that was the problem and you mentioned that they could not for a moment think it was lucy letby. she had friends on the ward, they were family. i think very crucially on that was she was seen as the reliable nurse, the safe pair of hands. she worked the night shifts, she worked weekends, she worked when they were short staffed and she came in. she was always there wanting to be in the intensive care nurse, wanting to help the sickest children and what we now know is that was not about being a nurse and caring for children and helping to save them, and helping them to go home, we heard from police on the steps today that they were going home, those parents, after lucy letby attacked their children because she was using her role, the fact that she was relied on incompetent and the fact that she was liked to attack. you on incompetent and the fact that she was liked to attack.— was liked to attack. you talk vividly about _ was liked to attack. you talk vividly about the _ was liked to attack. you talk vividly about the tools - was liked to attack. you talk vividly about the tools that l was liked to attack. you talk . vividly about the tools that lucy letby use to carry out these murders in our nautilus they —— innocuous and to complete these allegations were there trying to say she is innocent of these crimes which we know now that she wasn't. this is all circumstantial, none of this points to the behaviour of a killer. , , , ., . killer. interestingly, you are riuht. killer. interestingly, you are riht. it killer. interestingly, you are right. it was _ killer. interestingly, you are right. it was circumstantial. killer. interestingly, you are i right. it was circumstantial and killer. interestingly, you are - right. it was circumstantial and it is circumstantial. there is no smoking gun and no one saw her do anything. but they did, didn't they. they saw her and checked. —— inject. you're a parent watching the nurse looking after your child inject something, medicine, air, fluid, whatever it might be and your baby and you would not for a moment think that was problematic and i go back to what i said earlier about the calculating, manipulative, clever way that she carried out some of these attacks, she changed the way she did things, she changed her m0, some days it was air, sometimes it was air and a vein, sometimes it is overfeeding with milk and one of the things we learned from the trial is that these babies suffered, they really suffered, these babies, often in the final hours. and these were not deaths that were not, tiny premature babies suffered at her hands and she use the tools of any nurse to make them suffer and i think the other thing we learned just to mention, they're the reason why she was competent and viewed in a trustworthy way was, she was keen, keen to learn, came to be pushed in came to do extra courses to more qualifications and we learned for the death of paba, june 2015, she did a call that allowed her, gave her the qualifications to start administering drugs down the long line and just two weeks later, she killed baby a doing that line. was she becoming more competent, more confident and getting better? of killing and attacking babies? thank you, we appreciate your insight. carolyn cheatham, who is co—host of a podcast here in greater manchester. we were talking and caroline was explaining some of the text messages that were sent and how they formed a central part of the case. in the early days text messages she would send after is shift on the ward where a baby died and in return she would receive condolences. you can read more of the messages in the context and her crimes continued and she thought the net was closing in and her state of mind changed in those messages. you can find it on the bbc website or if you scan the qr code you see it would take you straight to that article with so much detail from what has been such a long running case. from the opening statement at manchester crown court, exactly nine days since the jury was sent out to deliberate on the comments. they heard a huge amount of evidence. they heard about lucy

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