she was using her, as it was described today, weaponising her craft, using things like overfeeding a milk and liquids to kill babies she was looking after. this is been depressing for everybody involved but none more so than for those families of the babies who not only lost their children in the most traumatic of circumstances, but have had to relive after the worst days of their lives again here in this courtroom. and one of the first reactions that we heard to this verdict today was the statement that was read out on behalf of those families. now the identities of the children, the babies involved, has been protected throughout. the in a deep, too, of theirfamilies, their parents and their siblings it's what we heard was the family liaison officer who is being so closely involved with supporting all of those people. this is janet and she read out on the steps here a statement on behalf of those grieving families. of all the families in this case. i have been asked to read out a statement on behalf of all the families in this case. i have been asked to read out a statement on behalf of all the families in this case. words cannot effectively explain how we are feeling at this moment in time. we are quite simply stunned. to lose a baby is a heartbreaking experience that no parent should ever have to go through. but to lose a baby or to have a baby harmed in these particular circumstances is unimaginable. over the past seven to eight years, we have had to go through a long, tortuous and emotionaljourney. from losing our precious newborns and grieving their loss, seeing our children who survived, some of whom are still suffering today, to being told years later that their death or collapse might be suspicious, nothing can prepare you for that news. today, justice has been served, and a nurse who should have been caring for our babies has been found guilty of harming them. this justice will not take away from the extreme hurt, anger and distress we have all had to experience. some families did not receive the verdict that they expected, and therefore it is a bittersweet result. we are heartbroken, devastated, angry and feel numb. we may never truly know why this happened. words cannot express our gratitude to the jury who have had to sit through 145 days of gruelling evidence which has led to today's verdict. we recognise that this has not been an easy task for them, and we will forever be grateful for their patience and resilience throughout this incredibly difficult process. the police investigation began in 2017, and we have been supported from the very beginning by a team of experienced and dedicated family liaison officers. we want to thank these officers for everything they have done for us. medical experts, consultants, doctors and nursing staff have all given evidence at court which at times has been extremely harrowing and distressing for us to listen to. however, we recognise the determination and commitment that each witness has shown in ensuring that the truth was told. we acknowledge that the evidence given by each of them has been key in securing today's verdict. that was janet moore. lucy letby was arrested three times before she was finally charged after that third arrest. forthe finally charged after that third arrest. for the families involved, these crimes took place between 2015 and 2016, so it has been many years of distress and heart rate for those families and you heard janet moore there really talking about some of their concerns and some of the emotions that they have been dealing with during this trial. i'm joint now... joining me now is professorjeremy coid, a forensic psychiatrist at queen mary university of london. thank you so much forjoining us. i think one of the key things during this case has been these two portrayals of lucy letby from the prosecution as somebody as who is calculating, who used normality as a cloak to hide the crimes she has been carrying out and from the defence as a young woman was being blamed for things her control. in your experience, and situation like this, where does the truth lie? yet to no this, where does the truth lie? yet to go on the _ this, where does the truth lie? yet to go on the fact that she is now convicted and it will be the way i would _ convicted and it will be the way i would be — convicted and it will be the way i would be working this case. so on the convention, we have to assume that she _ the convention, we have to assume that she did — the convention, we have to assume that she did what she was accused of. that she did what she was accused of so— that she did what she was accused of so in_ that she did what she was accused of. so in that setting, we have to understand — of. so in that setting, we have to understand that in terms of serial killers_ understand that in terms of serial killers and — understand that in terms of serial killers and though every case is different. — killers and though every case is different, there are broadly speaking to main groups, those which are sexually— speaking to main groups, those which are sexually sadistic and those who are sexually sadistic and those who are compulsive killers for nonsexual excitement. ,. they get pleasure, a sense _ excitement. ,. they get pleasure, a sense of— excitement. ,. they get pleasure, a sense of achievement and lucy letby is probably— sense of achievement and lucy letby is probably in the second group which _ is probably in the second group which tends to have more women actually— which tends to have more women actually in — which tends to have more women actually in it. and the motivation behind _ actually in it. and the motivation behind it— actually in it. and the motivation behind it is— actually in it. and the motivation behind it is extreme excitement and exhilaration from the actual act of killing _ exhilaration from the actual act of killing. the act of killing is it intensely— killing. the act of killing is it intensely exciting and pleasurable and involves control of the victim a sense _ and involves control of the victim a sense of— and involves control of the victim a sense of achievement and power over the victim _ sense of achievement and power over the victim. and often individuals have _ the victim. and often individuals have this — the victim. and often individuals have this urge for a sense of release _ have this urge for a sense of release or— have this urge for a sense of release or relieve some sounds from symptoms— release or relieve some sounds from symptoms like depression and the behaviour— symptoms like depression and the behaviour can become addictive and quite _ behaviour can become addictive and quite irresistible. so the individual is often driven by homicidal thoughts and urges which are a hit— homicidal thoughts and urges which are a bit like this compulsive disorden _ are a bit like this compulsive disorder. they keep coming into the individuals — disorder. they keep coming into the individual's mise and they cannot drive _ individual's mise and they cannot drive them — individual's mise and they cannot drive them out and the appearance when _ drive them out and the appearance when the _ drive them out and the appearance when the urges come and go sometimes life events _ when the urges come and go sometimes life events will set them all. but in reality. — life events will set them all. but in reality, it's not done by external— in reality, it's not done by external things. in reality, it's not done by externalthings. so in reality, it's not done by external things. so it's primarily something internal to the mind. it�*s something internalto the mind. it's a rare something internal to the mind. a rare thing something internal to the mind. it�*s a rare thing we think about serial killers within the medical profession. names of course come to mind lot doctor harold shipman, but it is a rare thing but what is it is some of these personalities that drives someone if you were saying there, somebody who is seeking that thrill from killing, to actually work in the medical profession because i think as a society, we find that particularly chilling, don't we?— find that particularly chilling, don't we? , ., ., don't we? yes, indeed. you do find serial killers _ don't we? yes, indeed. you do find serial killers sometimes _ don't we? yes, indeed. you do find serial killers sometimes getting - serial killers sometimes getting 'obs serial killers sometimes getting jobs where they actually have access to victims. _ jobs where they actually have access to victims, so that's one possibility. i cannot say that that is the _ possibility. i cannot say that that is the case — possibility. i cannot say that that is the case with lucy letby, but what _ is the case with lucy letby, but what sometimes happens is having access— what sometimes happens is having access is— what sometimes happens is having access is incidental and it develops overtime — access is incidental and it develops overtime. but it's access is incidental and it develops over time. but it's quite possible that this — over time. but it's quite possible that this is — over time. but it's quite possible that this is something, there have been _ that this is something, there have been thoughts from an early age, often _ been thoughts from an early age, often you — been thoughts from an early age, often you tend to find this starts around _ often you tend to find this starts around about puberty. and a bit later— around about puberty. and a bit later actually in the compulsive killers — later actually in the compulsive killers. but if something was develops over time and the individual somehow builds it up, has trvouts _ individual somehow builds it up, has trvouts of— individual somehow builds it up, has tryouts of the behaviour and gradually sort of moves into it and finds— gradually sort of moves into it and finds that — gradually sort of moves into it and finds that the behaviour itself is extremely an i believably pleasurable and exciting to people. ithink— pleasurable and exciting to people. i think you — pleasurable and exciting to people. i think you were asking... something particularly _ i think you were asking... something particularly interesting to me, and i'm particularly interesting to me, and in not— particularly interesting to me, and in not sure — particularly interesting to me, and i'm not sure whether i'm making more of it that _ i'm not sure whether i'm making more of it that l _ i'm not sure whether i'm making more of it that i should, but i was fascinated by the post—it notes. that— fascinated by the post—it notes. that seemed to be almost like two people _ that seemed to be almost like two people carrying out the homicides. 0ne people carrying out the homicides. one person who was seen to be saying i one person who was seen to be saying i have _ one person who was seen to be saying i have these _ one person who was seen to be saying i have these urges and i did it and it was— i have these urges and i did it and it was me — i have these urges and i did it and it was me and another person seeming to say— it was me and another person seeming to say could _ it was me and another person seeming to say could it have been me? i could _ to say could it have been me? i could not— to say could it have been me? i could not have done that. all, almost — could not have done that. all, almost as— could not have done that. all, almost as if two individuals were present— almost as if two individuals were present but i think we call that dissociation and denial that there probably— dissociation and denial that there probably were phases where she was entirely— probably were phases where she was entirely in— probably were phases where she was entirely in touch with what she was doing _ entirely in touch with what she was doing in— entirely in touch with what she was doing in others she had pushed it entirely— doing in others she had pushed it entirely out of her mind. and so i think— entirely out of her mind. and so i think that — entirely out of her mind. and so i think that is — entirely out of her mind. and so i think that is the most likely explanation of those post—it notes, but of _ explanation of those post—it notes, but of course i would not know unless — but of course i would not know unless you _ but of course i would not know unless you chose to tell me or tell somebody— unless you chose to tell me or tell somebody else exactly what it all meant~ _ somebody else exactly what it all meant. ., , ,., ., ,, somebody else exactly what it all meant. ., , ., ,, i. somebody else exactly what it all meant. ., ., ,, ., meant. professor, thank you for 'oinin: meant. professor, thank you for joining us- _ meant. professor, thank you for joining us. really— meant. professor, thank you for joining us. really appreciate - meant. professor, thank you for | joining us. really appreciate your insight. a forensic psychiatrist at queen mary university in london. this is as we have been saying such a complex and long—running investigation. 0ur north of england correspondent has been following through out and she sent this report. she thought she'd get away with it, but this was the moment the game was up. lucy, is it? my name is...with the cheshire police. do you mind if i step in for two seconds? yes. thank you. behind the door of this ordinary suburban house, britain's most prolific baby killer was finally arrested three years after her murder spree began. just take a seat - there in for me, lucy. i'll move that seat forward a bit. i've just had knee surgery. 0h, right, 0k. she worked here, on the neonatal unit at the countess of chester hospital. her role — to care for the most premature and vulnerable infants, but that couldn't have been further from her mind. the crying, i've never heard anything like it since. it was screaming. it was screaming, and i was like, "what's the matter with them?" legally, we can't identify the families in this case, but the stories are distressing. these are the parents of twin boys born prematurely in 2015. their mum was taking milk to them when she heard one of her sons crying loudly. he had blood round his mouth. and lucy was there, but faffing about and not really doing anything. lucy said, "don't worry, the registrar was coming." and then she told me to go back to the ward. the baby's mum left him in this intensive care area and went to call her husband. they thought their son was in safe hands with nurse letby, but a short time later, they were told he was dangerously ill and they rushed back to find doctors trying to save him. we were taken in, and we were told to talk to him and hold his hand. and then... ..we had a conversation with the consultant, and he said, "you know what, we're going to stop because it's not helping. we want him to die in your arms." 0n the unit, there were typically up to three deaths a year, but in 2015, they had that number in the month ofjune alone. and the pattern continued, with babies dying or coming close to death. the common factor — lucy letby. this staffing sheet shows she was the only employee who was present every time there was a suspicious event. dr stephen brearey led the team of seven consultants on the unit who shared joint concerns about letby. he's now speaking publicly about their experience for the first time. it's something that nobody really wants to consider, you know, that a member of staff might be harming the babies under your care. things came to a head when two out of three healthy triplets died within 2a hours of each other injune 2016. afterwards, a meeting was held for staff. lucy letby was there. she was sitting next to me. i spoke to her and said how tired and upset she must be after two days of this, and i hoped that she was going to have a restful weekend. and she turned to me and said, "no, i'm back on shift tomorrow." the other staff were very traumatised by all of this. we were crumbling before your eyes, almost, and she was quite happy and confident to come into work. lucy letby was eventually moved to a clerical role. the doctors kept trying to get managers to investigate the suspicious deaths and her connection to them. but we can now reveal that even though consultants here repeatedly made loud warnings to senior management, they say they were ignored and ultimately told that if they didn't stop raising questions about the nurse, there'd be consequences. and the doctors say that even after lucy letby came off duty on the neonatal unit, executives tried to draw a line under the case, and it was only a year after she stopped working as a nurse that the police became involved. after her arrest, officers found all sorts of items in her bedroom — babies' medical records, her diary and notes covered in letby�*s scrawl, with phrases including, "i am evil. i did this." she is a killer, and using her words, she is evil. _ you've spent time interviewing her and watching her in court, as well, giving evidence. yes. what do you make of her? i think she's very emotionless. she doesn't respond to a typical human response that _ i would've expected. did you have any concerns that there was a rise in the mortality rate? yes. there was no empathy or sympathy with what's gone on at all. - i mean, there are people who look at her and say there's no way she can have done this. it's circumstantial evidence. she looks as though butter wouldn't melt. it's an example to us all of not judging a book by its cover. i we've got to accept, you know, and understand the evidence i in this case has been, i believe, significant, | and it has taken us to understand that lucy letby is a killer. - as the trial ended today, letby refused to come into the courtroom. prosecutors later reflecting on the scale of her deceit. in her hands, innocuous substances like air, milk or medication like insulin would become lethal. she perverted her learning and weaponised her craft to inflict harm, grief and death. the nurse even wrote this sympathy card to the parents of one baby and searched for many of the other families on facebook. not a single thing that i've ever seen or witnessed of lucy would let me for a moment believe that she was capable of the things she was being accused of. dawn is one of lucy letby�*s childhood friends and has watched events unfold with disbelief. she is the kindest person that i've ever known. she would only ever want to help people. you seem utterly unshakeable on this, but isn't it possible that she's fooled you all? unless lucy turned around and said, "i'm guilty," i will never believe that she's guilty. the families of letby�*s victims still have to live with unanswered questions, including what her motive was. i want her to be locked up, and i neverwant her to come out again. because what she's done has changed the course of our life forever. lucy letby had many faces — party girl, graduate, bright young nurse. but each face was a mask for evil hiding in plain sight, and at last her cover has slipped. lucy letby will now be known as one of britain's most notorious criminals. judith moritz, bbc news, manchester. asjudith was saying, of course questions are now being asked about the hospital in which these crimes took place. the neonatal unit at the countess of chester hospital. former staff who worked there say they had raised concerns about lucy letby�*s behaviour, about her nursing, about what ultimately became her offending and those concerns were not taken seriously. we have heard from the hospital today and from some of the former staff who worked there as well at the same time as lucy letby. 0ur health correspondent is outside the countess of chester hospital now. let's start with what we heard today from the current administration. they made a statement. what did they have to say? statement. what did they have to sa ? ., , statement. what did they have to sa ? . , . say? yeah, they did. the current medical director, _ say? yeah, they did. the current medical director, he _ say? yeah, they did. the current medical director, he came - say? yeah, they did. the current medical director, he came out i say? yeah, they did. the current. medical director, he came out and made a statement but did not take any questions but he did say that the hospital board were extremely sorry for what had happened. he said there has been a profound impact on there has been a profound impact on the community, on staff and on patients and he said that staff were devastated by what had happened. he said lessons continue to be learned and he was graver for the staff cooperated with both the inquiry and the trial and giving evidence at the trial. he thanked the police for the care that they had shown to the investigation and also for the support they gave to the families involved. and he thanked them also for the support to those families, and he said since lucy letby work here, he said we had made significant changes and we want to reassure everyone who accesses care and treatment here that those changes have been made. and he finally said that their thoughts were with families and loved ones at this time. so that was from the medical director at the countess of chester hospital. we have also heard from the former medical director, who was here at the time when lucy letby was here and committed those absolutely dreadful murders and attempted murders for which she's now been found guilty. and we have also from the former chief executive at the trust, tony chambers. he said all my thoughts are with the children at the heart of this case and theirfamilies and children at the heart of this case and their families and loved children at the heart of this case and theirfamilies and loved ones children at the heart of this case and their families and loved ones at this incredibly difficult time. he said i'm truly sorry for what all the families of gone through. he said the crimes that have been committed are appalling and i'm deeply saddened by what came to light. this is the key bit. he said as chief executive, my focus was on the safety of the baby unit and the well—being of patients and staff. i was open and inclusive as i responded to information and guidance. he said the trial and lengthy police investigation has shown the complex nature of the issues involved and he said there are always lessons to be alert in the best place this to be achieved would be through an independent inquiry. he said i willfully cooperate and openly with the independent inquiry, which has now been ordered by the government. we have the government order that inquiry very soon after those verdicts were given and we heard from a health minister. she said there are serious questions that still need to be answered. yes, of course, let me come to that. can ijust say that my thoughts and sympathies are with the families who have lost babies or had babies injured and the unbelievable heartbreak that they have been through and must be going through. i think it's unimaginably hard to lose a baby or have a baby injured in any circumstances, but clearly in these circumstances, it's just hard to find the words to express what it must be like. so my thoughts are with them. and actually also with the staff at the countess of chester hospital, who must also be hugely affected by what has happened. now, you asked me about the inquiry, and the important thing here is that something like this must never happen again. and, of course, the nhs must learn lessons. that's why the government is launching an inquiry to make sure that all the lessons that can be learned will be learnt and that all possible action is taken so that this can never be, never happen again. in particular, you asked the question about statutory versus non—statutory. one of the things here is actually to make sure that this can be done at pace, action taken quickly and the non—statutory inquiry is one that can happen more quickly and be more flexible to answer questions that need to be answered. that is the health minister helen whately speaking a little earlier this afternoon. dominic, if you talk there at the end and address people would pick up all in a case like this which is the length of time that these inquiries often take. they are useful and can be rich in detail but they are not quick. and obviously some of the families that have been exposed in this case, people will wonder and new parents or prospective parents will wonder about the safety of the neonatal units up and down the country. what is happening to make sure that these places are immediately safe? yeah. is happening to make sure that these places are immediately safe?- places are immediately safe? yeah, i think there's — places are immediately safe? yeah, i think there's a _ places are immediately safe? yeah, i think there's a clear _ places are immediately safe? yeah, i think there's a clear emphasis - places are immediately safe? yeah, i think there's a clear emphasis in - think there's a clear emphasis in trying to get answers for families quickly, particularly around this case, but also to provide that kind of reassurance that you speak of for other families of reassurance that you speak of for otherfamilies in of reassurance that you speak of for other families in other units. of reassurance that you speak of for otherfamilies in other units. we should stress this is an extremely rare occurrence. you know, it's a vanishingly rare that this kind of thing happens in these dreadful murders and assaults on children will take place. but when it does happen, it causes so much depressed —— distress that obviously anxiety for families who find themselves using facilities like this. so they want to provide that reassurance but we know that there are moves under way to improve neonatal care. for example, the use of data that will show up red flags when there is an unexpected spike in the number of children who are dying in these units. these are very, very vulnerable children, a lot of them are very sick when they come in to these neonatal units. and if there is a spike in the data, then that should be acted on and looked into. now the great tragedy of what happened here at the countess of chester hospital was the staff did notice spikes in deaths. they did try and act on it. they did try and raise it, we are told, with senior management with a great tragedy is that they say they were not listen to, they were not heard. just that they say they were not listen to, they were not heard.- that they say they were not listen to, they were not heard. just as a final thought. _ to, they were not heard. just as a finalthought, i— to, they were not heard. just as a final thought, i think— to, they were not heard. just as a final thought, i think it's - to, they were not heard. just as a final thought, i think it's worth i final thought, i think it's worth picking up on something you mentioned there about how rare these cases are and how difficult this trial has been. we talked about many times the families at the heart of this and how dramatic it's been for them. but lucy letby�*s colleagues gave here and gave evidence and i imagined hard—working, dedicated, caring members of the medical profession up and down this country who must also have found this trial and this outcome and this revelation about a registered nurse very distressing as well.— about a registered nurse very distressing as well. yeah, i think it must have _ distressing as well. yeah, i think it must have been _ distressing as well. yeah, i think it must have been very _ distressing as well. yeah, i think it must have been very traumatic distressing as well. yeah, i think . it must have been very traumatic for members of the small, close—knit team, people are friendly each other, they work very closely with each other. it must�*ve been incredibly dramatic for them to realise that it was one of their own. we heard that from doctor brearley, who was one of the lead paediatrician consultants here at the countess of chester hospital and one of the ones who try to raise concerns. he said it was almost unlikable that it was one of their own who was involved in this, who was carrying out these attacks on the children, and yet that was what the children, and yet that was what the evidence pointed to. that must�*ve been a deeply traumatic moment for them when they realised that. and, yes, i'm sure for hundreds and hundreds of nhs staff, dedicated nhs staff right across the country now, this is a very difficult moment where they see someone who is meant to be in the most caring or one of the most caring professions looking after these very, very vulnerable children to have carried out these dreadful attacks must be very hard to see. thank you, dominic. health correspondent outside the countess of chester hospital tonight. and alsojust of chester hospital tonight. and also just putting up a little further on some of those points about the timeline of all of this and particularly we have heard since the conclusion of the trial today from people who works with lucy letby, who have revealed that they had concerns and did not only hold those concerns would express them to senior management and they were not always acted upon. a special investigation for bbc news and panorama has looted the mortality figures at the unit at the countess of chester hospital at that time when lucy letby was working. she has been convicted of the murders of seven babies and they have found out that in fact 13 babies died in that time period, which is around five times what it should have been, and lucy letby was repeatedly on duty as those babies died. 0ur social affairs correspondent michael buchanan explains in this exclusive report. this is the story of an nhs trust that didn't properly investigate why 13 babies died in a one—year period. instead, it turned against the very people who wanted the police to examine the deaths. there is only one serial killer of babies that has worked in that organisation, and the executive team were not the people who were responsible for the deaths of those babies. but they had some opportunities to get to the bottom of what was happening. susan gilbeyjoined the countess of chester nhs trust as medical director a month after lucy letby was arrested. within two months, she was made chief executive, a post she held until last december. through documents and speaking to staff, she learned what the trust knew about the serial killer. the first three babies died injune 2015. the executive team held a meeting at which it was agreed that an external investigation into the deaths would be held. it never happened. by october, with seven babies now dead, a staff analysis of the incidents made a link between all the deaths and lucy letby being on shift, but it was still seen as coincidental. in february 2016, with ten babies now dead, the director of nursing, alison kelly, and ian harvey, the medical director, were asked for an urgent meeting to discuss the deaths and lucy letby�*s links to all of them. they didn't respond for three months. the paediatricians were discussing, you know, the terrible nights on call that they were having. one of them said, "every time, you know, this is happening to me, that i'm being called in for these catastrophic events which were unexpected and unexplained, lucy letby is there," and then somebody else said, "yes, ifound that." and then someone else had the same response. and they all realised that the common factor for each of them was letby�*s presence on the unit. injune 2016, two babies died on consecutive days. 13 children had now died. lucy letby was on shift for all of them. the day after the second death, the nurse was due back on the unit. paediatrician steve brearley rang the duty manager asking for letby to be replaced. the manager refused. i challenged her. i said, "well, are you saying that you're making this decision against the wishes of seven consultant paediatricians?" and she said, "yes." and i said, "well, if you're making this decision, are you taking responsibility of anything that might happen tomorrow to any other of our babies?" and she said, "yes." lucy letby went to work, and a baby unexpectedly collapsed. we were urging them to investigate our concerns appropriately, and most of us felt the most appropriate way to do that would be to go to the police. the response from the medical director was unsupportive. in an e—mail to the paediatricians obtained by panorama, ian harvey wrote, "action is being taken." all e—mails ceased forthwith. the police were not called. instead, in september 2016, the royal college of paediatrics and child health was asked to carry out a review of the neonatal unit. it urged the trust to investigate each death individually. this didn't happen. around this time, lucy letby launched a grievance procedure against the paediatricians. the internal process concluded that she'd been discriminated against and victimised by the doctors on the unit. with the paediatricians wanting a police investigation injanuary 2017, an extraordinary board meeting was held.