Do they get it, what will they do with it, whats in it for them . Who is hacking the hackers, the bots and whatnots. We have malware, ransomware, the dark red, white hats, black hats, grey hats, passwords, how many have you got . What is your mothers maiden name . Its all serious stuff. What are your thoughts and experiences . Share it and we have a panel of experts to share Cyber Security questions. What do you want to know and have you been hacked . . Good morning and good to know you are there. Richard foster has the news was Top Police Officers say they are extremely worried about the possible consequences of a major data breach in Northern Ireland. The name, role of every psni officer has been published online by mistake was that there are seniors dilly mcphee as dissident public groups could plot attacks. Six Water Companies in uk face claims they have overcharged customers. The trade body water body uk says the accusations are without merit. Thejoint uk says the accusations are without merit. The joint Declaration Uk says the accusations are without merit. Thejoint declaration has been signed by leaders of eight countries in South America who will Work Together to tackle deforestation in the amazon. They plan to fight illegal mining and organised crime in the worlds biggest rainforest. Two more contestants forced to click on dancing had been announced. Cyclist, former swimmer and eight time Paralympic Medallistjody Cundy will don the sequence, along with former coronation street star ellie leach. Join us on this one. Loads of questions for you to ask and lots for us all to know and beware of as well. There have been some really famous Data Breaches in recent years. Dixons Carphone Warehouse in 2017, virgin media in 2020, the Payroll Company injune of 2017, virgin media in 2020, the Payroll Company in june of 2023, Payroll Company injune of 2023, Companies Like Payroll Company in june of 2023, Companies Like boots, ba, Payroll Company injune of 2023, Companies Like boots, ba, aer lingus, the bbc, were affected. Although no Banking Details were obtained. The nhs injuly this year, the uks largest trust, st barts, announced it had suffered a ransomware attack. Give us the money. And we will set you free. 08085 909693, 85058, what about your personal Data Breaches, plenty of those, tell us if you have been hacked. And what do you want to know because we have experts to answer the question. Joe tidy, the bbc cyber correspondent. The question. Joe tidy, the bbc cyber correspondent. The question. Joe tidy, the bbc cyber correspondent. Hello, how are ou . Cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good. Cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good. This cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good, this is cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good, this is a cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good, this is a big cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good, this is a big one. Cyber correspondent. Hello, how are you . Good, this is a big one. Jake i you . Good, this is a big one. Jake moore, a global you . Good, this is a big one. Jake moore, a global cyber you . Good, this is a big one. Jake moore, a global Cyber Security moore, a global Cyber Security appetiser for europes largest Internet Security group e set. A former police officer. That bodes well. And doctor victoria baines, professor of it at Gresham College, former lead Europol Cybercrime Centre and Facebook Trust and Security Manager for europe, formally, i think. Security manager for europe, formally, ithink. What Security Manager for europe, formally, i think. What a line up. Joe, this data breach at the Electoral Commission is a big one, isnt it . It Electoral Commission is a big one, isnt it . ,. , Electoral Commission is a big one, isnt it . ,. V Electoral Commission is a big one, isntit . ,. Isnt it . It is, yeah. Its big in terms of isnt it . It is, yeah. Its big in terms of the isnt it . It is, yeah. Its big in terms of the number isnt it . It is, yeah. Its big in terms of the number of isnt it . It is, yeah. Its big in. Terms of the number of people affected, potentially a0 Million People on the Electoral Roll from 201a up to 2022, when they finally discovered the hackers and kicked them out. We dont when they kicked them out. We dont when they kicked them out. We dont when they kicked them out but we know they were in there from August Of 2021 right the way up to october 2022. It was probably longer because when you discover a cyberattack you first of all have to do discover where they are, then get them out and secure the system to stop them getting back in. Its a big one. The interesting thing is, there is obviously the massive amount of data, but thats largely already publicly available data and if the hackers wanted this kind of thing they probably could have got it. What i think is more series from my perspective is that this was a very sensitive public institution, the Electoral Commission, which was hacked and managed to not see the hackers for so long, they were in the system for a long time, they were probably patient, sophisticated adversaries who found their way in and stayed hidden. , w who found their way in and stayed hidden. , m. ,. , hidden. The very fact that democracy is at the heart hidden. The very fact that democracy is at the heart of hidden. The very fact that democracy is at the heart of this, hidden. The very fact that democracy is at the heart of this, because is at the heart of this, because democracy is at the heart of all our fears about the future. Especially with al now being part of the equation. Thats why this would send a chill through a lot of people. Yeah, this has been one of the number one fears with, in a democratic world can hackers get into Electoral Systems and change the vote . That has not happened here, the Electoral Commission are confident that the six by elections that have taken place in the uk during this period were not affected. They say this is partly the dispersal, local councils run elections in this country but also because we have this Old Fashioned and archaic system of pencils and paper and ballot boxes, which is quite hard to hack. What we have seen here is that hackers have found a way in and stayed in and look across e mails, thats the big thing, i think, across e mails, thats the big thing, ithink, they across e mails, thats the big thing, i think, they were watching very closely, i imagine, the hackers, how the Electoral Commission carry out the elections that have happened. We have been worried about the situation, we have not had elections affected by this but we have come a step closer. Where might it leave the argument about electronic voting in future . I think it is a big tick in the box to say we should stay how we are doing it, with pencils and paper. This has been the fear and the worry. What happens if hackers get into Electoral Commission or Electoral Systems around the world and affect things grezda they have done that but they have been unsuccessful. If they wanted to effect a result they havent managed to do that. We dont know what the long tail of this could be. If you have ia months or more access to an institution like the Electoral Commissions e mails, you have a vast amount of data to draw from, in which case you might want to carry out further attacks down the line. We dont know who did this, they are calling them hostile actors but there are usual suspects that come to mind. We dont think it is a criminal attack, it doesnt have the hallmarks of a ransomware or extortion attempt. It looks like a nation state that is hostile and trying to find out whether are weaknesses in the system. This haened weaknesses in the system. This happened in weaknesses in the system. This happened in August Of 2021 so why has it taken so long to come to light . Because the hackers were very smart, all because light . Because the hackers were very smart, all because the light . Because the hackers were very smart, all because the electoral smart, all because the Electoral Commission security wasnt good enough. We dont know how they got in. Usually these things start with an e mail, a phishing attack. Someone in the Electoral Commission would have been sent an e mail that had a piece of malware hidden away in a word document and they accidentally downloaded it and it affected the system. 0r accidentally downloaded it and it affected the system. Or they may have accidentally given credential over to someone for a Cloud Storage or account they have with microsoft or account they have with microsoft or google or whoever. We dont know how it happened but we know they are in for a long time and that means they managed to stay hidden and they probably didnt start downloading things because that often rings alarm bells and that would also tally with what the Electoral Commission have said, they dont see evidence of the hackers have downloaded vast amounts of data in the Electoral Roll because if they had have done it may have alerted the Electoral Commission sooner to their presence. But somehow they found their system was breached in october and there would have been a forensic process that said actually they have been in since august 2021 and then the process of securing the system and kicking them out begins. Listeners and viewers, get in touch if you have experienced this, if you have been hacked. What are your thoughts and questions . Im fascinated that you say they might just have been doing it to see if they could do it. Because you get a bit of that when your credit card, when you are defrauded. You see payments on your Statement Like a7p, a7 p. Just checking it out and testing. A7 p. Just checking it out and testinu. ~ a7 p. Just checking it out and testinu. , ~. ,. , testing. That kind of thing is to see if you testing. That kind of thing is to see if you notice testing. That kind of thing is to see if you notice and testing. That kind of thing is to see if you notice and whether. Testing. That kind of thing is to | see if you notice and whether or testing. That kind of thing is to see if you notice and whether or not it rings alarm bells. Lets take a little bit and then see if we take bigger as we go. I think there is an element of that here but obviously we are talking about two different things. Thats the criminal side of things, taking money from you in a fraudulent way, slowly and carefully. And then you have the cyber espionage, which is what we think this attack was. And cyber espionage, which is what we think this attack was. Cyber espionage, which is what we think this attack was. And what has haened think this attack was. And what has happened in think this attack was. And what has happened in northern think this attack was. And what has happened in Northern Ireland think this attack was. And what has happened in Northern Ireland is happened in Northern Ireland is human error. The addresses and details of so many members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland have been subject to a data breach. That was a mistake from within, it is thought. 0bviously extremely serious given where it happened and to whom it happened. But that is something slightly different. Yes. Something slightly different. Yes, it is, there something slightly different. Yes, it is. There is something slightly different. Yes, it is, there is no something slightly different. Yes, it is, there is no element something slightly different. Yes, it is, there is no element of it is, there is no element of attack. This is someone who works for the Northern Ireland Police Service, and they have accidentally uploaded to the internet a spreadsheet that they shouldnt have done. It is extremely serious, especially with Safety Implications there but thats a classic case of human error. There have been cases, not as serious as this. For example, there was a Government Department that was fined recently, reprimanded by the information commissioners office, where they had accidentally office, where they had accidentally sent a giant list of e mails out to everybody. Instead of putting on a blind carbon copy of your e mail, they accidentally put it in the cc part. Exposing everybody� s e mails. The Police Service of Northern Ireland issue is obviously much more serious and much bigger of a mistake but its that kind of thing, a mistake by an employee that has led to the data breach. You mistake by an employee that has led to the data breach. To the data breach. You know all this stuff to the data breach. You know all this stuff i to the data breach. You know all this stuff. I remember to the data breach. You know all this stuff. I remember going to the data breach. You know all this stuff. I remember going on | to the data breach. You know all. This stuff. I remember going on the course at the bbc about passwords. You must have that in your password, have lots of different passwords. So many of us, wherever we are and wherever we work think, whatever, i willjust wherever we work think, whatever, i will just stick wherever we work think, whatever, i willjust stick in the same one so i can remember them. Whats your own password etiquette best to knock i thought you were going to ask for my password there. I know that, dont worry. A foreign actor told me. Whats Best Practice . The worry. A foreign actor told me. Whats Best Practice . The rules, the basic rules that whats Best Practice . The rules, the basic rules that are whats Best Practice . The rules, the basic rules that are given whats Best Practice . The rules, the basic rules that are given out whats Best Practice . The rules, the basic rules that are given out by basic rules that are given out by the national Cyber Security centre and every Cyber Security expert says its the basic hygiene of information security. For example, dont use the same password across multiple accounts because if one of those services, lets say its an app those services, lets say its an app you downloaded years ago that you only tried out once or twice and then deleted from your phone, if that company is hacked then suddenly they have your e mail, the password that you use for everything and that allows hackers to use simple tricks to get into multiple accounts just by having a go with that E Mail Address and password pair. It is called Credential Stuffing and it is really common and unfortunately people use the same passwords across multiple accounts. Thats number one. The best advice is to use a Password Manager to score leeds store complex passwords in one place meaning you dont have to remember them all. Everything the service i sign up for, create a new and complex password, put it in your manager. It is a fast, i have to use two factor authentication to get into the Password Manager, to get into the Password Manager, to get into my e mail, its a nightmare and it Takes Minutes out of your day but it Takes Minutes out of your day but it stops you, it takes you out of that low hanging fruit basket for hackers. ,. ,~ hackers. Low hanging fruit basket for hackers. Hackers. Low hanging fruit basket for hackers, brilliant. For hackers, brilliant. Interestingly, covid was attributed to a huge rise in data attacks because so many people were doing stuff online. Doctor victoria baines, professor of it at Gresham College. Baines, professor of it at gresham colle. E. , baines, professor of it at gresham colleae. ,. ,. , baines, professor of it at gresham colleae. ,. , � , college. Hello. Good morning. Its bean college. Hello. Good morning. Its began getting college. Hello. Good morning. Its began getting bigger college. Hello. Good morning. Its began getting bigger the college. Hello. Good morning. Its began getting bigger the time. College. Hello. Good morning. Itsl began getting bigger the time. How concerned are began getting bigger the time. Time concerned are you . Began getting bigger the time. How concerned are you . Ive began getting bigger the time. How concerned are you . Ive worked began getting bigger the time. How concerned are you . Ive worked in l concerned are you . Ive worked in ber concerned are you . Ive worked in Cyber Security concerned are you . Ive worked in Cyber Security for concerned are you . Ive worked in Cyber Security for 20 concerned are you . Ive worked in Cyber Security for 20 years concerned are you . Ive worked in Cyber Security for 20 years now i concerned are you . Ive worked in. Cyber security for 20 years now and its fair Cyber Security for 20 years now and its fair to Cyber Security for 20 years now and its fair to say myjob is safe. It is a its fair to say myjob is safe. It is a growth its fair to say myjob is safe. It is a growth industry. As you say, we are all is a growth industry. As you say, we are all doing is a growth industry. As you say, we are all doing so much more of our lives, are all doing so much more of our lives, including personaland lives, including personal and professional lives lives, including personaland professional lives online. But joe is absolutely right, yes, we are right is absolutely right, yes, we are right to is absolutely right, yes, we are right to be is absolutely right, yes, we are right to be concerned, but so much of what right to be concerned, but so much of what you right to be concerned, but so much of what you your listeners encounter in terms of what you your listeners encounter in terms of of what you your listeners encounter in terms of cybercrime and safety threats in terms of cybercrime and safety threats can in terms of cybercrime and safety threats can be countered with really basic digital hygiene, including, as joe was basic digital hygiene, including, as joe was saying, different strong passwords. But all so you know those annoying passwords. But all so you know those Annoying Software updates you get on your phone Annoying Software updates you get on your phone and tablet. Please download those because they are packed download those because they are packed with security features, microsoft, apple and google and all the rest microsoft, apple and google and all the rest of microsoft, apple and google and all the rest of them produce them so you dont have the rest of them produce them so you dont have to the rest of them produce them so you dont have to think about your own security dont have to think about your own security. Equally, what we know is we are security. Equally, what we know is we are the security. Equally, what we know is we are the main vulnerability a lot of the we are the main vulnerability a lot of the time we are the main vulnerability a lot of the time when it comes to Cyber Attacks of the time when it comes to Cyber Attacks. Joe of the time when it comes to Cyber Attacks. Joe mentioned Phishing Links attacks. Joe mentioned Phishing Links we attacks. Joe mentioned Phishing Links. We really have to be tough on ourselves links. We really have to be tough on ourselves and take a minute to question. Ourselves and take a minute to question, who is that e mail really from, question, who is that e mail really from. Where question, who is that e mail really from, where does the link really go . A lot of from, where does the link really go . A lot of those things that seem a bit too a lot of those things that seem a bit too good to be true often are. Im pleased to say that i have a free im pleased to say that i have a free talk im pleased to say that i have a free talk on Cyber Security for humans free talk on Cyber Security for humans available online. Should be clicked on it . Humans available online. Should be clicked on it . Please humans available online. Should be clicked on it . Please do, humans available online. Should be clicked on it . Please do, trust humans available online. Should be clicked on it . Please do, trust that| clicked on it . Please do, trust that link. You clicked on it . Please do, trust that link you can clicked on it . Please do, trust that link. You can google clicked on it . Please do, trust that link. You can google gresham clicked on it . Please do, trust that i link. You can google Gresham College and then link. You can google Gresham College and then find the videos. We have safety and then find the videos. We have Safety Videos specifically on these three Safety Videos specifically on these three things, software updates, password three things, software updates, password hygiene, and just taking a second password hygiene, and just taking a second to password hygiene, and just taking a second to check web links and who an email second to check web links and who an email is second to check web links and who an e mail is really from. find second to check web links and who an email is really from. Email is really from. And there are troan email is really from. And there are Trojan Horses email is really from. And there are Trojan Horses as email is really from. And there are Trojan Horses as well. Email is really from. And there are Trojan Horses as well. I email is really from. And there are Trojan Horses as well. I remember i email is really from. And there are| Trojan Horses as well. I remember a few years ago, one just said i love you. Obviously the temptation to click. You. Obviously the temptation to click. ,. , you. Obviously the temptation to click. I,. ,. ,. Click. Cyber criminals watch the news and click. Cyber criminals watch the news and to click. Cyber criminals watch the news and to look click. Cyber criminals watch the news and to look at click. Cyber criminals watch the news and to look at the click. Cyber criminals watch the l news and to look at the calendar. When news and to look at the calendar. When michaeljackson died we saw a hue when michaeljackson died we saw a huge uptick in fake news stories. We are talking huge uptick in fake news stories. We are talking about the Election Integrity right now. I think its really integrity right now. I think its really important to say that again, we are really important to say that again, we are the really important to say that again, we are the biggest vulnerability there we are the biggest vulnerability there. During the us 2016 federal elections. There. During the us 2016 federal elections, during the brexit vote, what elections, during the brexit vote, what we elections, during the brexit vote, what we saw was an uptick in fake news what we saw was an uptick in fake news on what we saw was an uptick in fake news on social media. That was serving news on social media. That was serving the news on social media. That was serving the interests, as we believe. Serving the interests, as we believe, of russian states and others believe, of russian states and others. But really we were the people others. But really we were the people sharing that, we were the people people sharing that, we were the people falling for that. Its about developing our own Critical Thinking and make developing our own Critical Thinking and make sure we dont trust everything we see unless it comes from everything we see unless it comes from a everything we see unless it comes from a legitimate source like the bbc from a legitimate source like the bbc. , from a legitimate source like the sac. , y from a legitimate source like the sac. ,~ from a legitimate source like the sac. , y. Bbc. Yes, absolutely. Well said, i will drink to bbc. Yes, absolutely. Well said, i will drink to that, bbc. Yes, absolutely. Well said, i will drink to that, albeit bbc. Yes, absolutely. Well said, i will drink to that, albeit a bbc. Yes, absolutely. Well said, i will drink to that, albeit a strong l will drink to that, albeit a strong coffee. So, the russians are doing it, the chinese are doing it. Are we doing it to other countries . I it, the chinese are doing it. Are we doing it to other countries . Doing it to other countries . I think its fair to say doing it to other countries . I think its fair to say from doing it to other countries . I think its fair to say from the doing it to other countries . I think its fair to say from the last doing it to other countries . I think its fair to say from the last few i its fair to say from the last few years. Its fair to say from the last few years, revelations of things like phone years, revelations of things like phone hacking, former german premier angela phone hacking, former german premier Angela Merkels phone, everybodys doing Angela Merkels phone, everybodys doing it Angela Merkels phone, everybodys doing it to Angela Merkels phone, everybodys doing it to Everybody Else to a certain doing it to Everybody Else to a certain extent. That absolute high level espionage, certainly, everybodys doing it to Everybody Else everybodys doing it to Everybody Else in everybodys doing it to Everybody Else. In terms of the cyber criminal population. Else. In terms of the cyber criminal population, we know there are Cyber Criminals population, we know there are Cyber Criminals in population, we know there are Cyber Criminals in all countries. They target criminals in all countries. They target their own populations but importantly they target other countrys populations because they are trading on the ignorance of how things are trading on the ignorance of how things work are trading on the ignorance of how things work in their own countries and are things work in their own countries and are trying to evade the police. Thats and are trying to evade the police. Thats where, asjake knows because we are thats where, asjake knows because we are both thats where, asjake knows because we are both from a Law Enforcement background, thats where International Investigation and International Investigation and international cooperation, different countries, international cooperation, different countries, Law Enforcement and security countries, Law Enforcement and Security Services working with each other Security Services working with each other is Security Services working with each other is really important because otherwise other is really important because otherwise those cybercriminals can evade otherwise those cybercriminals can evade justice in their own countries. Evade justice in their own countries. ,. , countries. Another couple of things, hishin , countries. Another couple of things, phishing. Sending countries. Another couple of things, phishing, sending emails countries. Another couple of things, phishing, sending emails or phishing, sending e mails or messages pretending to be from Reputable Companies inducing people to reveal personal information like Credit Card Numbers and passwords. And also sending a voice mail or phone call, vishing, trying to get information from people. We have all had that as well. And there is the ai aspect being introduced into all this making it all even more tricky and difficult to detect and easier to dissemble. I will be with you, jake. Its fantastic so far. Stand by. Joe in shrimpton, andrew in greenford. Good morning. A very warm welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello. Welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello, how are you . Welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello, how are you . Lm welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello, how are you . Im fine. Welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello, how are you . Im fine. How welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello, how are you . Im fine. How are welcome. Joe, what happened . Hello, how are you . Im fine. How are you, i how are you . Im fine. How are you, what did you how are you . Im fine. How are you, what did you go how are you . Im fine. How are you, what did you go through, how are you . Im fine. How are you, what did you go through, how how are you . Im fine. How are you, what did you go through, how did i how are you . Im fine. How are you, what did you go through, how did it | what did you go through, how did it feel and what can we get from you, who were they . Shall feel and what can we get from you, who were they . Feel and what can we get from you, who were they . All these questions, i would who were they . All these questions, i would love who were they . All these questions, i would love to who were they . All these questions, i would love to know who were they . All these questions, i would love to know the who were they . All these questions, i would love to know the answer, who were they . All these questions, i would love to know the answer, to | i would love to know the answer, to be honest. I went on a weekend away to get away from work, literally, and the work was taken away from me, to put it in better words. I had a hackerfrom america, and to put it in better words. I had a hacker from america, and they managed to hack my business page. And with that they took everything, my contact details, clients� details, phone numbers, e mails, invoices, quotes, you name it, absolutely everything. Haifa invoices, quotes, you name it, absolutely everything. How did you know this had absolutely everything. How did you know this had happened . Absolutely everything. How did you know this had happened . Was absolutely everything. How did you know this had happened . Was it i absolutely everything. How did you | know this had happened . Was it no longer there . Know this had happened . Was it no longerthere . I know this had happened . Was it no longer there . Longer there . I went to sign in to check my messages longer there . I went to sign in to check my messages and longer there . I went to sign in to check my messages and it longer there . I went to sign in to check my messages and it said i longer there . I went to sign in to l check my messages and it said the page had been deleted. From facebook somehow. I don� t know if they picked up somehow. I don� t know if they picked up on it or not but i wasn� t able to sign in. Itjust said the page has been disabled. I had no access, i had nothing. I had no business to run. My diary, everything. Had you coied it run. My diary, everything. Had you copied it all run. My diary, everything. Had you copied it all and run. My diary, everything. Had you copied it all and back run. My diary, everything. Had you copied it all and back to run. My diary, everything. Had you copied it all and back to top . Run. My diary, everything. Had you copied it all and back to top . No, | copied it all and back to top . No, ou cant copied it all and back to top . No, you cant do copied it all and back to top . No, you cant do that copied it all and back to top . Iifr, you cant do that on facebook. Copied it all and back to top . No, j you cant do that on facebook. Backed it you cant do that on facebook. Backed it up. How did that feel . You cant do that on facebook. L backed it up. How did that feel . Oh m backed it up. How did that feel . Oi my god, it backed it up. How did that feel . I my god, it felt like the backed it up. How did that feel . Oi my god, it felt like the world had come down on me. My private e mails with my clients, prices, everything. Some of them, bank details, my bank details, which is really stupid. I have learned, why should you rely on a platform that is clearly not safe . That� s been my biggest lesson. It took about three months. I tried to contact them but they didn� t really get back to me. It� s like e mailing a ghost. You e mail, and nothing comes back to you. Not even an acknowledgement to say they have got your e mail and they are working on it. That would normally happen one to one, really. It. That would normally happen one to one. Really to one, really. There is so much to address and to one, really. There is so much to address and so to one, really. There is so much to address and so much to one, really. There is so much to address and so much to to one, really. There is so much to address and so much to answer i to one, really. There is so much to| address and so much to answer and focus on and we will do more of that presently. Some breaking newsjust in, a group of people who survived the sinking of a Boat Carrying Migrants from tunisia to italy say a1 other people died in the accident. The four survivors were brought to the Sicilian Island of lampedusa this morning. It� s understood italian authorities are currently trying to verify the number of people who died. There will be more on this on the bbc news website and app throughout the day and on radio 5 live and sounds. A group of people who survived the sinking of a Boat Carrying Migrants from tunisia to italy say a1 other people died in the accident. The four survivors were brought to the Sicilian Island of lampedusa this morning. It� s understood italian authorities are trying to identify the number of people who died. More on the Bbc News Channel, on 5 live throughout the day. Until ten o� clock, right here, right now, we are discussing a huge problem for society. We are discussing hacking. We heard the experience of in shirehampton. Andrew in greenford. Jake will comment shortly. Andrew, what happened . It jake will comment shortly. Andrew, what happened . What happened . It was ten or 11 ears what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago i what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago i was what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago. I was on what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago. I was on my what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago. I was on my pc what happened . It was ten or 11 years ago. I was on my pc at. What happened . It was ten or 11 i years ago. I was on my pc at home doing years ago. I was on my pc at home doing online years ago. I was on my pc at home doing Online Banking, in its early stages doing Online Banking, in its early stages. 0ut doing Online Banking, in its early stages. Out of the blue, unbelievably, i had an account with one of unbelievably, i had an account with one of the unbelievably, i had an account with one of the major Building Societies and over one of the major Building Societies and over £40,000 was removed from my account and over £40,000 was removed from my account and and over £40,000 was removed from my account and transferred to another bank account and transferred to another bank account, a bank account, i had a joint bank account, a bank account, i had a Joint Account with my wife, but it was proved a Joint Account with my wife, but it was proved the money didnt go to our account, was proved the money didnt go to ouraccount, it was proved the money didnt go to our account, it went elsewhere to stop someone somehow got hold of my information stop someone somehow got hold of my information from the Building Society information from the Building Society account and transferred that money Society Account and transferred that money over. I was shocked, i saw it happen, money over. I was shocked, i saw it happen, and money over. I was shocked, i saw it happen, and it has proven it hadnt gone happen, and it has proven it hadnt gone to happen, and it has proven it hadnt gone to us, happen, and it has proven it hadnt gone to us, it had gone to a completely obscure account, we had been hacked. We were reimbursed fully been hacked. We were reimbursed fully but been hacked. We were reimbursed fully but i been hacked. We were reimbursed fully. But i dont think they ever caught fully. But i dont think they ever caught the person who actually did it. ,. ,. ,. It. There is that feeling of, which jo touched it. There is that feeling of, which jo touched on. It. There is that feeling of, which jo touched on, its it. There is that feeling of, which jo touched on, its like it. There is that feeling of, which | jo touched on, its like somebody jo touched on, it� s like somebody getting into your house. How dare they, violation. I getting into your house. How dare they, violation. They, violation. I was stunned, i thou~ht, they, violation. I was stunned, i thought. How they, violation. I was stunned, i thought, how on they, violation. I was stunned, i thought, how on earth they, violation. I was stunned, i thought, how on earth have they, violation. I was stunned, i thought, how on earth have my| thought, how on earth have my details thought, how on earth have my details been observed on the pc . Its ridiculous. Eyes are prying on you and its ridiculous. Eyes are prying on you and can its ridiculous. Eyes are prying on you and can see your details, and how they you and can see your details, and how they got hold of it. There is no other how they got hold of it. There is no other way how they got hold of it. There is no other way they could have access to my details other way they could have access to my details. My account was actually book based, i had a book, it wasnt on a book based, i had a book, it wasnt on a card book based, i had a book, it wasnt on a card or book based, i had a book, it wasnt on a card or anything. It all went suddenly on a card or anything. It all went suddenly out of the blue, everything totally suddenly out of the blue, everything totally removed. I lost my faith in online totally removed. I lost my faith in Online Banking straightaway so i ust Online Banking straightaway so i just dont Online Banking straightaway so i just dont do it and havent done it since just dont do it and havent done it since i just dont do it and havent done it since. I always go into the branch or use since. I always go into the branch or use the since. I always go into the branch or use the hole in the wall or whatever~ or use the hole in the wall or whatever or use the hole in the wall or whatever. ,. , whatever. Standing in the queue, usin the whatever. Standing in the queue, using the dodgy whatever. Standing in the queue, using the dodgy by whatever. Standing in the queue, using the dodgy by rote, whatever. Standing in the queue, using the dodgy by rote, its whatever. Standing in the queue, | using the dodgy by rote, its much using the dodgy by rote, it� s much safer. I using the dodgy by rote, its much safer. , using the dodgy by rote, its much safer. ,. ,. , safer. I have been on the show before. Safer. I have been on the show before lm safer. I have been on the show before. Im a safer. I have been on the show before. Im a published safer. I have been on the show before. Im a Published Poet. Safer. I have been on the show. Before. Im a Published Poet and have before. Im a Published Poet and have a before. Im a Published Poet and have a poet scammer. If there is time have a poet scammer. If there is time to have a poet scammer. If there is time to read it, it is four stances. Not quite. Time to read it, it is four stances. Not quite, but i do love a poem. You can tweet it and i will retweet it. Find some safe online means to get it out there. I do want to ask, and i appreciate that, what rhymes with scammer . Well. Jake moore, what you think about what you heard from jo, andrew . Welcome. Jo, andrew . Welcome. Hello. Its an increasinu jo, andrew . Welcome. Hello. Its an increasing threat jo, andrew . Welcome. Hello. Its an increasing threat we jo, andrew . Welcome. Hello. Its an increasing threat we are jo, andrew . Welcome. Hello. Its an increasing threat we are seeing jo, andrew . Welcome. Hello. Its an increasing threat we are seeing all i increasing threat we are seeing all the time. I was working in Law Enforcement many years ago seeing this problem arise. I saw the birth of things like the dark web, vpns, cryptocurrencies. Back then in 2010, even then i was chatting to my sergeant thinking, where are we going, into this minefield of problems. Unfortunately back then the chiefs were quite happily burying their head in the sand thinking it might go away. Talking about money and resources, it was a problem then. Fast forward more than a decade and we still talk about this constant and increasingly sophisticated attacks. The fact they use psychology to manipulate people, easily accessing data that has been breached in many different attacks on companies, including government attacks now where, like we have seen yesterday, the data potentially stolen wasn� t even the primary target. We are in a time now where we have really got to up our awareness. Unfortunately the onus is on us because we can� t rely on anyone else to effectively protect us. We have to build on that awareness and advice and protect ourselves the best we can. Is it someone ourselves the best we can. Is it someone in ourselves the best we can. Is it someone in moscow, ourselves the best we can. Is it someone in moscow, or is it someone in, you know, a basement in manchester having a bit of fun . What� s that balance . Like manchester having a bit of fun . Whats that balance . Like Victoria Sa S whats that balance . Like victoria says rightly whats that balance . Like victoria says rightly we whats that balance . Like victoria says rightly we have whats that balance . Like victoria says rightly we have attackers says rightly we have attackers everywhere. 0f says rightly we have attackers everywhere. Of course we have the nation state, threats, targeting governments, they are continually and relentlessly targeting Government Organisations and looking for weaknesses. As we have seen come out yesterday, the weaknesses that were located, to give a digital recce to find out how they operate and update. Looking back to 2017 when the nhs went down with wannacry, we saw there was a small time frame where xp hadn� t been updated and that� s when they attacked. Then you have financially motivated attackers targeting businesses and individuals, particularly with ransomware, a huge threat. That tends to worry people tremendously. Businesses don� t know what to do because they might pay the attackers but still have the data released. It� s a wild west on the internet. Data released. Its a wild west on the internet. The internet. What about jo in shirehampton the internet. What about jo in shirehampton whose the internet. What about jo in| shirehampton whose business the internet. What about jo in shirehampton whose business stuff on facebook vanished into thin air, contacts and details. What is that about . It contacts and details. What is that about . , ,. , about . It is extremely frustrating. The olice about . It is extremely frustrating. The police are about . It is extremely frustrating. The police are still about . It is extremely frustrating. The police are still scratching the police are still scratching their heads thinking, how on earth can we investigate this . Who their heads thinking, how on earth can we investigate this . Who would want that and can we investigate this . Who would want that and why . Can we investigate this . Who would want that and why . Jo can we investigate this . Who would want that and why . Jo has can we investigate this . Who would want that and why . Jo has gone can we investigate this . Who would want that and why . Jo has gone but she is forever scratching her head, why would anyone want that, what will they do with it and why go to the trouble to get it . If it is trouble, it could be easy. They could hold trouble, it could be easy. They could hold that trouble, it could be easy. They could hold that data trouble, it could be easy. They could hold that data to trouble, it could be easy. Tia could hold that data to ransom, to extort that person to pay a certain amount of money in cryptocurrency to get them to pay that. I have seen businesses even on instagram have their accounts held to ransom. Around £2000 for a small business, hoping they will pay that ransom to get it back. Of course there is no guarantee. That� s the problem we live with. We have to make sure people are equipped with that advice to protect themselves and their businesses. Shire to protect themselves and their businesses to protect themselves and their businesses. � ,. , , businesses. Are some texts, experts tell us how businesses. Are some texts, experts tell us how to businesses. Are some texts, experts tell us how to keep businesses. Are some texts, experts tell us how to keep information tell us how to keep information safe, that� s all very well but once we have been forced to give information to a Government Agency we lose control over its security. Another one, can you ask the experts if there is an efficient way to delete online accounts you don� t use. How safe is google Password Manager . Victoria can you pick up on that . ,. , that . One of the things i have been recommending. That . One of the things i have been recommending, particularly that . One of the things i have been | recommending, particularly because that . One of the things i have been l recommending, particularly because i recognise recommending, particularly because i recognise some of your listeners will be recognise some of your listeners will be in recognise some of your listeners will be in a recognise some of your listeners will be in a situation where their partners will be in a situation where their partners are spying on their private communications. Coercive control is a big communications. Coercive control is a big problem when it comes to digital a big problem when it comes to digital devices. 0ne a big problem when it comes to digital devices. One of the things you can digital devices. One of the things you can do digital devices. One of the things you can do as a general hygiene measure. You can do as a general hygiene measure, when you are in your phone, looking measure, when you are in your phone, looking at measure, when you are in your phone, looking at your phone, just look at the apps looking at your phone, just look at the apps you dont use any more. I� m the apps you dont use any more. Im doinu the apps you dont use any more. Im doin it. The apps you dont use any more. Im doing it it the apps you dont use any more. Im doing it it is the apps you dont use any more. Im doing it it is a the apps you dont use any more. Im doing it. It is a pain the apps you dont use any more. Im doing it. It is a pain and the apps you dont use any more. Im doing it. It is a pain and a the apps you dont use any more. Im doing it. It is a pain and a hassle doing it. It is a pain and a hassle and it takes doing it. It is a pain and a hassle and it takes a doing it. It is a pain and a hassle and it takes a while, doing it. It is a pain and a hassle and it takes a while, but doing it. It is a pain and a hassle and it takes a while, but there i doing it. It is a pain and a hassle l and it takes a while, but there are services and it takes a while, but there are Services Also that can make those requests Services Also that can make those requests to delete your data, by going requests to delete your data, by going out requests to delete your data, by going out there, trawling your data, finding going out there, trawling your data, finding which services have it. You have finding which services have it. You have to finding which services have it. You have to let finding which services have it. You have to let them into your E Mail Accounts, have to let them into your E Mail Accounts, which is a bit of a trust issue accounts, which is a bit of a trust issue in accounts, which is a bit of a trust issue in itself, but then they will fire off issue in itself, but then they will fire off those requests to all those different fire off those requests to all those different services, to either justify different services, to either justify why they still have your data justify why they still have your data or justify why they still have your data or remove it. I work in securities data or remove it. I work in securities sol data or remove it. I work in securities so i am an absolute stickler securities so i am an absolute stickler for these things. If i get an email stickler for these things. If i get an e mailfrom stickler for these things. If i get an e mail from somebody from an online an e mail from somebody from an online shop an e mail from somebody from an online shop and i dont buy from them online shop and i dont buy from them any online shop and i dont buy from them any more, and its a hassle to receive them any more, and its a hassle to receive that them any more, and its a hassle to receive thatjunk them any more, and its a hassle to receive that junk e mail, them any more, and its a hassle to receive thatjunk e mail, i will always receive thatjunk e mail, i will always unsubscribe at the bottom of those always unsubscribe at the bottom of those e mails. And make sure that if they keep those e mails. And make sure that if they keep sending me those e mails, remind they keep sending me those e mails, remind them that they shouldnt be. Because remind them that they shouldnt be. Because we do have things like the Data Protection regulation, that we are still Data Protection regulation, that we are still signed up to, even though we have are still signed up to, even though we have left the eu. That means of people we have left the eu. That means of people no we have left the eu. That means of people no longer have a legitimate reason people no longer have a legitimate reason to people no longer have a legitimate reason to store our data, and if we ask them reason to store our data, and if we ask them specifically to take us off their lists, ask them specifically to take us off their lists, legally they are required to do so. It does require some required to do so. It does require some work required to do so. It does require some work on all our parts to check those some work on all our parts to check those apps. Some work on all our parts to check those apps, delete the ones we dont use. Those apps, delete the ones we dont use and those apps, delete the ones we dont use and in those apps, delete the ones we dont use. And in the case of people who might use. And in the case of people who might be use. And in the case of people who might be in use. And in the case of people who might be in coercive or abusive relationships, if you dont recognise an app on your phone, somebody recognise an app on your phone, Somebody Else might have put it there Somebody Else might have put it there, and it is a really good reason there, and it is a really good reason to there, and it is a really good reason to remove those apps you dont reason to remove those apps you dont use reason to remove those apps you dont use any more. Jeff in london, good morning. Good morninu , jeff in london, good morning. Good morning. Thank jeff in london, good morning. Good morning, thank you jeff in london, good morning. Good morning, thank you for jeff in london, good morning. limp. Morning, thank you for the time today. Very serious, it happened to me injune, latejune, what seem to have happened was i went for lunch around the west end and i decided to download an app and realised my Apple Id Password did not work. I� m very familiar with my tech have lots of devices, and i can believe to my eyes that my Apple Id Password did not work, then i tried, dried, dried, checked my e mail, a different e Mail Associated with it, got an e mailfrom different e Mail Associated with it, got an e mail from apple seeing your password was reset it in the morning, i was absolutely shocked. Went back in because i did not have my other verification device, i have to be verification and what happened next was that we press the code, it was verify, i went back and reset my password, i went to the e mail, change the E Mail Address, they remained. Another e mail from apple saying your password has been what they called reset it and i told apple, this went on back and forth between the sky trying to gain in, i believe they successfully reset the password, they don� t need to know my previous password, but they can reset your new password and what was really shocking was to be verification the apple told me there is absolutely no way someone can get your password unless they have access to another device, i have my phone and know all my devices, there� s only one verification trusted device, so it was really shocking to me, and it went back and forth until one in the morning i then assigned a new E Mail Address, to my apple id, and it seems to have been fine. I think what� s really important to know is that your phone which backs up all your notes, photos, contacts, everything across what you store on your iphone back up, once the fraudster, have hiked in, could then retrieve all your information. Luckily i don� t have any sensitive information, but they could back up onto the new device and have access to your information, so it� s really quite shocking, and what apple told me, there� s absolutely no way it could happen to me, but someone successfully reset my password to a new password and i was going back and forth three or four times with this person apple could tell me, could not tell me what happened. Echoing what we� ve heard, is an absolutely horrible feeling, isn� t it. We� ve got the experts, get in touch, keep them coming, your experiences. More in the next half hour. What is the time . 9 3a. And here is the news. A former Northern Ireland Justice Minister says Police Officers they are frightened after their daughter was published online by mistake. Includes names, roles and work locations. 0ne by mistake. Includes names, roles and work locations. One said some will be considering their futures with the force. A1 people reported to have died every boat capsized off of the town coast, carrying people in tunisia, four survivors taken to the island of lampedusa. Legal action taken against yuki� s six biggest Water Companies has been said to have been without merit, it was an environmental consultant claims they have underreported pollution and overcharged customers. It turns out that walking 5000 steps a day is enough to seriously improve your health. Fresh Research Carried about by teams from poland and the United States involving more than a quarter of Million People. That is the news. The sport, you Managerfor Wolves Who parted company with their previous last night in what the club says was an amicable split. It means they will be back in work less than two months after being sacked by bournemouth. Gillingham said his but said his team should have one. Ten cops fell to lure the opposition and there are six amortised the night before 12 Premier League sides, quitting tottenham and chelsea, enter the draw for round two. Anthonyjoshua� s promoter says two. Anthony joshua� s promoter says he two. Anthonyjoshua� s promoter says he is almost certainly fight with the aunty wilder will happen next. Joshua faces roper on wednesday. Great britain� s neil says he never imagined to get into double figures led alone 19 world titles, picking up led alone 19 world titles, picking up its latest gold medal in the cycling World Championships in glasgow in the mixed b team sprint. Data now, water later. We will do that because of something you always want talk about. So we are going to take a deep dive. Why are we doing this this morning . Question, our waterfirms taking the this this morning . Question, our water firms taking the p . You� ve seen pictures of the river is full of sewage, Overflow Alerts and the triathletes at the weekend, at least 57 falling ill with vomiting and diarrhoea after swimming through, swimming in sunderland. Back in may, what uk apologise on behalf of its members to not do enough to stop sewage spills. That was the case of sorry seems to be the hardest tired but still, i wonder what it� s like because over summer 2022 dozens of beaches were closed you may well remember, due to the high levels of toxic waste, so once more onto the beach dear friends, toxic waste, so once more onto the beach dearfriends, how toxic waste, so once more onto the beach dear friends, how is 2023 so far for you . Beach dear friends, how is 2023 so farfor you . The beach dear friends, how is 2023 so far for you . The story today, facing legal action accused of Underreporting Pollution Incidents and overcharging customers, the cases went to take a long time to play out but the Companies Involved could at the end of the day end up paying a lot of money in compensation for underreporting, allegedly. Are the Water Companies taking the pthat is at ten. Cyberfraud, cybercrime, hacking, your experiences and questions, to excellent experts on board. Mitch, what happened . Excellent experts on board. Mitch, what happened . Morning. I suffered a coule of what happened . Morning. I suffered a couple of months what happened . Morning. I suffered a couple of months ago what happened . Morning. I suffered a couple of months ago something what happened . Morning. I suffered a couple of months ago something they| couple of months ago something they call sim fraud. Which when you say, people assume that just call sim fraud. Which when you say, people assume thatjust mean somebody got your phone number and that� s a bit irritating but in fact what they can do once they have your phone number and take control of your mobile phone as they can then use this two Point Verification Process where you get a four digit pin to your mobile phone, to basically take over all of my Online Presences, so one saturday afternoon i suddenly got a notification, funnily enough on my phone because it was on the wi fi, that said a large payment had gone to a name i did not recognise from my bank account and long story short they had pretended to be me, gotta you sim card, taken over my phone number, use that to say i had forgotten my password to every Single Online presence i have that they could possibly fine, then emptied my bank account, all of its overdraft, all of my Building Society and were controlling my e mail and every other Online Presence i had. Now, the bank and Building Society were very quick to act and shut down the accounts and return the money to make, but i have spent a couple of months worrying about how to make sure i have protected myself and all those areas. But the key point i wanted to make and make sure people were aware of is that the only thing these people needed to know to get a new sim card was the date approximately within a couple of days of my last bill and the amount within a couple of pounds of my last bill. Now, how they got that, i have no idea because i don� t get paper bills and i don� t get e mail notifications, so they somehow got those two pieces of info and got my sim card replace, which cut my phone off and give them complete control over all of my accounts and the Phone Company dissented their positions saying they did not insist on photo verification because some people don� t have a driving licences or passports, and then final point is that when i reported this to the fraud line, which is where you have to report this to, not directly to the police, received notification back to say that this was not technically a crime and no further action would be taken, even though we knew the account that the money had gone through, an account in swindon with a name on it, i� m sure the name was false but we knew where the name was false but we knew where the account was. Nobody was interested in recovering the money or taking any further action. Abs, or taking any further action. A perfect point. First world problems, may be . But what a nightmare. Victoria, speak to much. It� s enough being done . Early Law Enforcement agencies taking this seriously enough . Element we have a real problem with education in Law Enforcement, resources and Law Enforcement, resources and Law Enforcement, but one thing we have not spoken about is what companies have to do and i think mitch� s case really gets to the heart of our the company is doing enough . All of your callers today. Company is doing enough . All of your callers today callers today. Have been caught in a loop trying callers today. Have been caught in a loop trying to callers today. Have been caught in a loop trying to reclaim callers today. Have been caught in a loop trying to reclaim access callers today. Have been caught in a loop trying to reclaim access to i a loop trying to reclaim access to their a loop trying to reclaim access to their phone. This case about banking fraud, their phone. This case about banking fraud, what their phone. This case about banking fraud, what we have seen in the last ten or fraud, what we have seen in the last ten or so fraud, what we have seen in the last ten or so years are some of those projects ten or so years are some of those projects have got much more stringent, and if your listener now try and stringent, and if your listener now try and transfer some money online they will try and transfer some money online they will have to match the account details they will have to match the account details with the account details that the details with the account details that the bank has, etc, you will get all of that the bank has, etc, you will get all of these that the bank has, etc, you will get all of these fraud warnings, it has ot all of these fraud warnings, it has got a all of these fraud warnings, it has got a lot all of these fraud warnings, it has got a lot harder, and what we find with the got a lot harder, and what we find with the social Media Companies and bil with the social Media Companies and big Companies Like apple is that there big Companies Like apple is that there are big Companies Like apple is that there are not enough people on the planet there are not enough people on the planet to there are not enough people on the planet to staff the phone lines to deal with planet to staff the phone lines to deal with 7 billion people around the world, that is genuine challenge that means people like joe and jeff are in that means people like joe and jeff are in getting somebody sensible to speak are in getting somebody sensible to speak to are in getting somebody sensible to speak to. In the case of mitch, the mobile speak to. In the case of mitch, the mobile phone companies, someone asks to switch mobile phone companies, someone asks to switch that simmer get a replacement sim, should there not be a security replacement sim, should there not be a Security Check . Shouldnt that company a Security Check . Shouldnt that company then be getting in touch with mitch by some other means to say, did with mitch by some other means to say, did you with mitch by some other means to say, did you actually ask for this . Thats say, did you actually ask for this . Thats what say, did you actually ask for this . Thats what banks do when there is a potentially thats what banks do when there is a potentially suspicious transaction. There potentially suspicious transaction. There is potentially suspicious transaction. There is more to be done by those mobile there is more to be done by those mobile phone companies. Absolutely, lots of people mobile phone companies. Absolutely, lots of people saying mobile phone companies. Absolutely, lots of people saying that. Mobile phone companies. Absolutely, lots of people saying that. Well mobile phone companies. Absolutely, lots of people saying that. Well be i lots of people saying that. We� ll be right back with that story but also the breaking news, about a migrant ship that sunk off the coast of italy, survivors of the accident say a1 other people died. 0ur corresponding intel is more. What do we know . That corresponding intel is more. What do we know . �. ,. , we know . At the moment there is not a hue we know . At the moment there is not a huge amount we know . At the moment there is not a huge amount that we know . At the moment there is not a huge amount that we we know . At the moment there is not a huge amount that we know, we know . At the moment there is not a huge amount that we know, and we know . At the moment there is not a huge amount that we know, and as| a huge amount that we know, and as you just mentioned, a1 people have been killed of a shipwreck near sicily in the south of italy. This is being reported by an Italian News Agency and widely reported across italian media. They are citing accounts from survivors. What we do know is that only four people survived that shipwreck. It is for men and one woman they were rescued by the italian coastguard and they told rescuers they were on a boat that had set off from tunisia and was trying to reach italy will stop the boat was sailing in the Sicilian Channel and at some point it capsized and sank. We don� t know when that happens at what time, this is something that we are currently looking into what we do know is the four survivors were brought into the island of lampedusa this morning, early in the morning, and that is when they shared their story with rescuers. ~ when they shared their story with rescuers. , ~ ,. ,. , rescuers. Thank you very much, awful news. A1 rescuers. Thank you very much, awful news 41 people rescuers. Thank you very much, awful news. A1 people reported rescuers. Thank you very much, awful news. A1 people reported dead rescuers. Thank you very much, awful news. A1 people reported dead there, the migrant ship that sank off the coast of italy. Much more on that on the Bbc News Channel throughout the day and on bbc radio 5 live and bbc sounds. You can get in touch with us on this issue that we are talking about, which is hacking, a global phenomenon on which is causing mayhem and chaos and you can get to us on the usual line. After ten o� clock we are talking about sewage. Quite a case from mitch. Let me do a couple of texts. Loads of them. When are isps going to be made to take some responsibility, or messages that go through isps servers and they don� t take any Response Ability even when they� re made aware says tony. This one, i generally go by the maxim if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. One thing that prevents hacking, and why more people don� t do it on facebook is to make yourfriends people don� t do it on facebook is to make your friends list visible only to me. It stops them sending fake friend requests, so why hack you in the first place, and for another, who else needs to know . It is happened to you. Who else needs to know . It is ha ened to ou. ,. ,. , ~ happened to you. Yes, i was working last wednesday happened to you. Yes, i was working last wednesday and happened to you. Yes, i was working last wednesday and went happened to you. Yes, i was working last wednesday and went to happened to you. Yes, i was working last wednesday and went to go happened to you. Yes, i was working last wednesday and went to go on i happened to you. Yes, i was working j last wednesday and went to go on to show my client, show my client a picture and i was suddenly signed in as alexandra dario, which is a famous artist, so i automatically knew something had happened and then i looked and e mailed and it said i had change my password, my name, phone number and E Mail Address, so what facebook suddenly disabled the account because it was an impersonation of a famous artist, so i contacted facebook on every single avenue, and every single avenue and theyjust avenue, and every single avenue and they just say they will get back to britain turn what they have done is let my business out, so my businesses linked my personal facebook on my calendar is for my clients, the appointments, i don� t know know when i have clients coming in because that account has totally come of it due to it being attached to my personal account. So a big impact. To my personal account. So a big imact. ,. , to my personal account. So a big imact. ,. , impact. The impact is on you emotionally . Impact. The impact is on you emotionally . Devastated, ii impact. The impact is on you emotionally . Devastated, i have lost all my reviews. Emotionally . Devastated, i have lost all my reviews, my emotionally . Devastated, i have lost all my reviews, my calendar, emotionally . Devastated, i have lost all my reviews, my calendar, loss i all my reviews, my calendar, Loss Potential Clients that would have been messaging me to have their hair done, huge impact, really. And facebook are doing nothing about it and the needs to be an avenue to get it back, really. And the needs to be an avenue to get it back, really it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what do it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what do you it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what do you make it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what do you make of it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what do you make of that| it back, really. Very good point. Jake, what do you make of that and how much of this is Pure Mischiefmaking . How much of this is Pure Mischiefmaking . This is Gut Wrenching mischiefmaking . This is Gut Wrenching to mischiefmaking . This is Gut Wrenching to hear mischiefmaking . This is Gut Wrenching to hear and mischiefmaking . This is Gut Wrenching to hear and i mischiefmaking . This is gut| wrenching to hear and i have mischiefmaking . This is Gut Wrenching to hear and i have tested the slots. Wrenching to hear and i have tested the slots. I wrenching to hear and i have tested the slots, i wrote a blog once about how you the slots, i wrote a blog once about how you can the slots, i wrote a blog once about how you can get instagram and facebook how you can get instagram and Facebook Accounts back that have been Facebook Accounts back that have been hacked. It is extremely difficult, been hacked. It is extremely difficult, facebook as a whole are effectively faceless, there is no one at effectively faceless, there is no one at the end of it, which is so frustrating one at the end of it, which is so frustrating that in your time of need frustrating that in your time of need there is no one answering calls and emails need there is no one answering calls and e mails. They tend to give you advice and e mails. They tend to give you advice on and e mails. They tend to give you advice on what you should have done, which advice on what you should have done, which is advice on what you should have done, which is not advice on what you should have done, which is not what you want to hear at that which is not what you want to hear at that moment, so there are a few tips out at that moment, so there are a few tips out there to help but it is not always tips out there to help but it is not always going to be the case, unfortunately. 0ne always going to be the case, unfortunately. One thing that will help going forward, and the previous two collars, help going forward, and the previous two collars, in fact, talking about some two collars, in fact, talking about some frauds and attacking the fraud itself, some frauds and attacking the fraud itself, the some frauds and attacking the fraud itself, the one really good bit of advice itself, the one really good bit of advice id itself, the one really good bit of advice id like to say is to try and use an advice id like to say is to try and use an authenticator app, instead of relying use an authenticator app, instead of relying on use an authenticator app, instead of relying on sms, is a text message based relying on sms, is a text message based two relying on sms, is a text message based two factor authentication, and this based two factor authentication, and this will help if anyone is able to ring and this will help if anyone is able to ring your and this will help if anyone is able to ring your Telecoms Company and et to ring your Telecoms Company and get hold to ring your Telecoms Company and get hold of to ring your Telecoms Company and get hold of that phone and report to be you get hold of that phone and report to be you and get hold of that phone and report to be you and suggest to them that you are someone else, by taking away the sms part are someone else, by taking away the sms part of are someone else, by taking away the sms part of it and moving on to an authenticator app which is free, it should authenticator app which is free, it should secure those accounts going forward, should secure those accounts going forward, and if you do do that, make sure you forward, and if you do do that, make sure you take forward, and if you do do that, make sure you take away the sms option going sure you take away the sms option going forward. Why the question im asking everybody, what happened . Good morninu. I everybody, what happened . Good morning i was everybody, what happened . Good morning. I was hacked everybody, what happened . limp. Morning. I was hacked about five weeks ago, quite a serious act because the scammers managed to get in to almost all my e mail contacts which are a lot, i have a lot of friends and cousins and family everywhere all around the world. It seemed one evening about ten someone for me and said i� m sorry to hear about your granddaughter, i did not know she was ill with cancer. And the scam was to ask people on my behalf to send her a gift card from amazon, totally scanned, totally unauthorised, and some of my friends actually were kind enough to go out and buy these amazon gift cards at a cost of £200 each. And i thought well, how many people would do that, it sounded very genuine to them, it sounded particularly difficult for some people because they rang me and i had a lot of calls asking me about my granddaughter and i happen to be out for the 12 hour period that this was all happening and of course the result was the my e mail platform took me down and close my account and i sympathise with what jake was saying about the faceless and formless contacts that you would need if you want to return online, because it� s all advise on what you should have done and then they have the silly business of trying to send you an e mailand the silly business of trying to send you an e mail and you can� t receive it because your E Mail Account has been closed. By, it because your email account has been closed been closed. A friend went exdirectory been closed. A friend went exdirectory and been closed. A friend went exdirectory and did been closed. A friend went exdirectory and did over. Been closed. A friend went i exdirectory and did over the been closed. A friend went exdirectory and did over the phone ex directory and did over the phone a nasty person on the other end of the form what is my number and the person on the other end of the fun side i cannot tell you, you are ex directory. It� s a little bit like that. How frustrating for you. Yes. That. How frustrating for you. Yes, it was and that. How frustrating for you. Yes, it was and l that. How frustrating for you. Yes, it was and i must that. How frustrating for you. Yes, it was and i must say, that. How frustrating for you. Yes, it was and i must say, in that. How frustrating for you. Isis it was and i must say, in pursuance of your programme i find that you do a lot of listening and your nonverbal is sure how good a listener you are. Thank you for the opportunity. The listener you are. Thank you for the opportunity opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything i opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything i say opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything i say or opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything i say or do opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything i say or do our opportunity. The pleasure is mine and anything i say or do our a opportunity. The pleasure is mine l and anything i say or do our a wince or grimace about is nothing to the contribution that you guys make thank you very much. What do you make of that, victoria . Playing on people� s make of that, victoria . Playing on eole ,. , make of that, victoria . Playing on. Eole. . , make of that, victoria . Playing on neole. , peoples compassion. Absolutely and he has described peoples compassion. Absolutely and he has described how peoples compassion. Absolutely and he has described how his peoples compassion. Absolutely and he has described how his account peoples compassion. Absolutely and j he has described how his account has been used he has described how his account has been used to target other people by pulling been used to target other people by pulling on been used to target other people by pulling on their heartstrings. Weve seen that pulling on their heartstrings. Weve seen that also on social media in the last seen that also on social media in the last few years where im sure some the last few years where im sure some of the last few years where im sure some of your listeners will have received some of your listeners will have received messages from someone where it is their received messages from someone where it is their child or a friend of theirs it is their child or a friend of theirs that says help, im in hospital theirs that says help, im in hospital in thailand i need money to pay for hospital in thailand i need money to pay for my hospital in thailand i need money to pay for my treatment, we see this quite pay for my treatment, we see this quite a pay for my treatment, we see this quite a lot pay for my treatment, we see this quite a lot on whatsapp and other messaging services, ive lost my phone, messaging services, ive lost my phone, i messaging services, ive lost my phone, i get these, i know its a scam phone, i get these, i know its a scam because i dont have kids but if youre scam because i dont have kids but if youre any scam because i dont have kids but if youre any particular situation where if youre any particular situation where you if youre any particular situation where you have a child, if it hits the mark, where you have a child, if it hits the mark, and this is what social engineering is all about, the mark, and this is what social engineering is allabout, we the mark, and this is what social engineering is all about, we also have engineering is all about, we also have the engineering is all about, we also have the business version of this, so if have the business version of this, so if your have the business version of this, so if your listeners are running their so if your listeners are running their own so if your listeners are running their own businesses or. That give car technique their own businesses or. That give car technique is also used within businesses and companies because you can compromised a business account and email can compromised a business account and e mail someday and see can you et and e mail someday and see can you get a and e mail someday and see can you get a gift and e mail someday and see can you get a gift card for such and such a persons get a gift card for such and such a persons birthday and then that gets wiped persons birthday and then that gets wiped away. That is profit driven cyber wiped away. That is profit driven cyber crime, way for the cyber criminal cyber crime, way for the cyber criminal who want to make money can do so criminal who want to make money can do so with criminal who want to make money can do so with those gift cards, because they can do so with those gift cards, because they can cash them in, buy things or they can cash them in, buy things or they can they can cash them in, buy things or they can sell they can cash them in, buy things or they can sell them on. They can sell them on. Jenny in the oval, wonderful they can sell them on. Jenny in the oval, wonderful calls they can sell them on. Jenny in the oval, wonderful calls this they can sell them on. Jenny in thej oval, wonderful calls this morning, great listeners and viewers, one of them isjenny. What happened . High. Them is jenny. What happened . High, brilliant show, them is jenny. What happened . High, brilliant show, need them isjenny. What happened . Ii gi, brilliant show, need another error i think. This happened to me on saturday, i did something very silly and i know a lot of people would have done the same, i clicked on and i know a lot of people would have done the same, i clicked on an ad on facebook that took me to a website, a well known company that i thought it was a well known company but it turned out to be fake, i want to buy a lot of stuff, put my details in and write at the end when i press the button turned 2 and i thought, that doesn� t feel right, and then when i looked at the website i realise. But they took their money, i cancelled my card, but it� s interesting because someone else did exactly the same that i know and they had the same experience, the card was declined but i think the. I got a phone call last night from someone in cyprus, so question to the experts, should i be worried . Should she be worried . Yes the experts, should i be worried . Should she be worried . The experts, should i be worried . Should she be worried . Yes and no, ersonal should she be worried . Yes and no, personal data should she be worried . Yes and no, personal data that should she be worried . Yes and no, personal data that is should she be worried . Yes and no, personal data that is the should she be worried . Yes and no, personal data that is the currency i personal data that is the currency of its personal data that is the currency of its own personal data that is the currency of its own these days. Most of our data is of its own these days. Most of our data is unfortunately out there on the dark data is unfortunately out there on the dark lead and what i tend to say to people the dark lead and what i tend to say to people is, if this isjust happen, to people is, if this isjust happen, its probably already happened as well, so just about being happened as well, so just about being aware of what criminals can such being aware of what criminals can such data being aware of what criminals can such data. Stolen data mean scammers can use such data. Stolen data mean scammers can use the such data. Stolen data mean scammers can use the dad to convince members of the can use the dad to convince members of the public can use the dad to convince members of the public that they can be trusted of the public that they can be trusted and the user in this gateway to convince trusted and the user in this gateway to convince individuals to share even to convince individuals to share even more to convince individuals to share even more sensitive information. What even more sensitive information. What weve even more sensitive information. What weve seen is they got straight through what weve seen is they got straight through those web pages and manipulating higher by looking like genuine manipulating higher by looking like genuine websites to call right the way through and theyre collecting all the way through and theyre collecting all the information, way through and theyre collecting allthe information, including credit allthe information, including credit card that at the end, and then credit card that at the end, and then they credit card that at the end, and then they will sell at off or try and use then they will sell at off or try and use it then they will sell at off or try and use it. Luckily, just something we do and use it. Luckily, just something we do realise with the dollar symbol that something was up and she cancelled her card, which is great. So many cancelled her card, which is great. So many people dont even realise until afterwards and still think how on earth until afterwards and still think how on earth did this happen, so its about on earth did this happen, so its about being aware are not being afraid about being aware are not being afraid to about being aware are not being afraid to say no to a phone call, and if afraid to say no to a phone call, and if we afraid to say no to a phone call, and if we want to finish on al, whats and if we want to finish on al, whats coming in the future, the hello whats coming in the future, the hello mum whats coming in the future, the hello mum scam already starting to use at, hello mum scam already starting to use at, very hello mum scam already starting to use ai, very clever technology, to sound use ai, very clever technology, to sound like use ai, very clever technology, to sound like a use ai, very clever technology, to sound like a Family Member in the same sound like a Family Member in the same scam sound like a Family Member in the same scam of seeing hello and they are in same scam of seeing hello and they are in need same scam of seeing hello and they are in need of help. This is something to be very worried about. Butjust something to be very worried about. Butjust keeping aware of what scammers are able to do. We butjust keeping aware of what scammers are able to do. We have to kee on scammers are able to do. We have to keep on it scammers are able to do. We have to keep on it can scammers are able to do. We have to keep on it can i scammers are able to do. We have to keep on it. Can i come scammers are able to do. We have to keep on it. Can i come in scammers are able to do. We have to keep on it. Can i come in very keep on it. Can i come in very quickly . Keep on it. Can i come in very quickly . Just keep on it. Can i come in very quickly . Just to keep on it. Can i come in very quickly . Just to warn keep on it. Can i come in very quickly . Just to warn people | keep on it. Can i come in very i quickly . Just to warn people not keep on it. Can i come in very quickly . Just to warn people not to click on ads unless they really know they are kosher on facebook, because that� s what i did and they are so convincing. I� m a completely convincing, yeah. I have had them. I had them from Major Companies and seen them on my phone and there is a second reason, oh, i better get in touch with them as well. Don� t feel bad, it is easily done. We touch with them as well. Dont feel bad, it is easily done. Bad, it is easily done. We say aoodb e bad, it is easily done. We say goodbye to bad, it is easily done. We say goodbye to our bad, it is easily done. We say goodbye to our viewers bad, it is easily done. We say goodbye to our viewers on i bad, it is easily done. We say. Goodbye to our viewers on bbc bad, it is easily done. We say goodbye to our viewers on bbc news and bbc two now but you can carry on listening on bbc radio 5 live, or on bbc science. Sounds. Live from london, this is bbc news. 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