for calais said people who have had traumatic experiences, to house any human being in something like the bibby stockholm is inhumane, to try to do so to this group of people is unbelievably cruel. the conservative deputy chairman, said they should expletive off. your reaction? get in touch. 15 asylum seekers have spent their first night aboard the bibby stockholm in dorset. 20 have refused to get on and have launched legal challenges. ministers want to move hundreds more there this week. the home office has announced a unit to stop potential immigration fraud by lawyers encouraging false claims by asylum seekers. staff in the immigration system are being trained to spot potential rogue lawyers who may be coaching asylum seekers to help them stay in the uk. it's exam results day for pupils across scotland. more than 140,000 who sat their nationals, highers and advanced highers — will receive their grades. the funeral of the irish singer sinead o'connor will be held near dublin this morning. she was found unresponsive at her home in london last month. just to reiterate, you will hear views in the next hour plus that you do not disagree with, you will hear views that you do disagree with, you do agree with, but the people you disagree with also pay the licence fee. it's worth saying that because you often get discussions like this, "why did you let them on?" because they pay the licence fee and represent a body of opinion. we welcome steve smith, the ceo of the aforementioned care for calais. good morning, steve. aforementioned care for calais. good morning. steve-— aforementioned care for calais. good morning, steve._ and | morning, steve. good morning. and tom hunt mp- _ morning, steve. good morning. and tom hunt mp. good _ morning, steve. good morning. and tom hunt mp. good morning. - morning, steve. good morning. and tom hunt mp. good morning. stevei tom hunt mp. good morning. steve smith, looking _ tom hunt mp. good morning. steve smith, looking at _ tom hunt mp. good morning. steve smith, looking at the _ tom hunt mp. good morning. steve smith, looking at the conditions - tom hunt mp. good morning. steve smith, looking at the conditions on | smith, looking at the conditions on board, it doesn't look that bad. a gym with treadmills, cross trainer, weight training, ensuite bedrooms, a computer room with pcs available, wi—fi, which isn't particularly good but it is there. 24—hour canteen, three meals a day. 0utside but it is there. 24—hour canteen, three meals a day. outside of mealtimes, soup, tea, coffee, breads and spreads available. a team of 28 on the catering team serving culturally sensitive food and dietary choices, like vegan, film nights with movies chosen to optimise english language skills, an outside courtyard with basketball hoops, english classes and a bus every hour from seven m to 11pm ferrying people back and forth —— 7am. steve, what's the problem? it sounds fantastic when you put it like that, i'm thinking of booking a cruise myself! what is the problem? the problem is severalfold. it was built for 220 people and the plan is to put 506 on board. that is going to put 506 on board. that is going to vastly overcrowd it. i haven't been on the barge but i've seen films of the gymnasium, the cross trainers, the weight—training machines, they are really tiny. you've got 506 people queueing up for that sort of thing, of course they get three meals a day, that's they get three meals a day, that's the situation that is currently also in place with hotels, but on top of that they get just over in place with hotels, but on top of that they getjust over nine —— £9 per person per week, there might be buses going back and forth but there is no money to spend in town. the buses have to go through to security checks going out, and coming back in. forall checks going out, and coming back in. for all intents and purposes, this is similar to a detention facility. what we are talking about in terms of residence, we are looking at survivors of torture, those who have been kidnapped, those who have been shot at and survived persecution and war zones. there was a glib expression about, they might be scared of the water because they have crossed the channel. some will have crossed the channel. some will have seen friends and family members potentially drowned at sea, notjust on the channel but crossing the mediterranean. in terms of what they can do and where they can go, effectively they are confined in small rooms. there might be the odd outlet with a full night but the ability to go out in the sunshine and get fresh air and get exercise is inhibited so for all intents and purposes, this is like a detention facility. purposes, this is like a detention facili . ., ., ., facility. tom hunt, react to that, lease. facility. tom hunt, react to that, please- i'm _ facility. tom hunt, react to that, please. i'm quite _ facility. tom hunt, react to that, please. i'm quite encouraged - facility. tom hunt, react to that, please. i'm quite encouraged to | facility. tom hunt, react to that, - please. i'm quite encouraged to hear it like a detention _ please. i'm quite encouraged to hear it like a detention facility, _ please. i'm quite encouraged to hear it like a detention facility, i - it like a detention facility, i would _ it like a detention facility, i would actually like it to be one. the illegal migration bill was looking to deliver that. wait a minute, expand _ looking to deliver that. wait a minute, expand on _ looking to deliver that. wait a minute, expand on that. - looking to deliver that. wait a minute, expand on that. you | looking to deliver that. wait a - minute, expand on that. you would like it to be more like a detention facility? like it to be more like a detention facili ? , ., �* , ., facility? yes, that's what the ille . al facility? yes, that's what the illegal migration _ facility? yes, that's what the illegal migration bill- facility? yes, that's what the illegal migration bill is - facility? yes, that's what the i illegal migration bill is looking facility? yes, that's what the - illegal migration bill is looking to deliver_ illegal migration bill is looking to deliver so i've got concerns about the ability— deliver so i've got concerns about the ability to abscond, having illegally — the ability to abscond, having illegally entered the country and disappearing into the community, i think_ disappearing into the community, i think we _ disappearing into the community, i think we should be detained for a small— think we should be detained for a small amount of time in the uk then deported _ small amount of time in the uk then deported to a safer country. that is the plan _ deported to a safer country. that is the plan with the illegal migration bill. the plan with the illegal migration bill if_ the plan with the illegal migration bill if i _ the plan with the illegal migration bill. if i was genuinely fearing persecution and my life, i'd be more than happy— persecution and my life, i'd be more than happy to be in the bibby stockholm. the pictures are absolutely fine. i don't see what the problem is. we know that we need a deterrent— the problem is. we know that we need a deterrent otherwise we are not going _ a deterrent otherwise we are not going to — a deterrent otherwise we are not going to solve this problem and will continue _ going to solve this problem and will continue to have tens of thousands of people _ continue to have tens of thousands of people illegally entering the country — of people illegally entering the country every year. we've heard these _ country every year. we've heard these are — country every year. we've heard these are people who have been tortured — these are people who have been tortured and victims of x, y and z tortured and victims of x, y and 2 but we _ tortured and victims of x, y and 2 but we don't _ tortured and victims of x, y and 2 but we don't know that for sure. we know _ but we don't know that for sure. we know that _ but we don't know that for sure. we know that many of them are not... they— know that many of them are not... they are _ know that many of them are not... they are compromising our capacity to support — they are compromising our capacity to support the most genuine refugees. the vast majority of the british— refugees. the vast majority of the british public are fed up, they want to see _ british public are fed up, they want to see a _ british public are fed up, they want to see a resolution.— british public are fed up, they want to see a resolution. which views are the fed to see a resolution. which views are they fed up — to see a resolution. which views are they fed up with? — to see a resolution. which views are they fed up with? the _ to see a resolution. which views are they fed up with? the fact _ to see a resolution. which views are they fed up with? the fact we - to see a resolution. which views are they fed up with? the fact we got i they fed up with? the fact we got they fed up with? the fact we got the bibby stockholm _ they fed up with? the fact we got the bibby stockholm which - they fed up with? the fact we got the bibby stockholm which is - they fed up with? the fact we got i the bibby stockholm which is being used to— the bibby stockholm which is being used to accommodate military —— which _ used to accommodate military —— which has — used to accommodate military —— which has been used to house military— which has been used to house military and its fine but people who claim _ military and its fine but people who claim to _ military and its fine but people who claim to be — military and its fine but people who claim to be fleeing persecution. the british— claim to be fleeing persecution. the british taxpayer is fed up with this and fed _ british taxpayer is fed up with this and fed up— british taxpayer is fed up with this and fed up of accommodating these individuals in 4—star hotels and they— individuals in 4—star hotels and they see — individuals in 4—star hotels and they see this as a step forward. and also the _ they see this as a step forward. and also the assumption that there are genuine _ also the assumption that there are genuine refugees, the assumption... this ludicrousness of them saying they are _ this ludicrousness of them saying they are scared of water when they havem _ they are scared of water when they havem to— they are scared of water when they have... ., , ., ,, ., have... to be fair, i think that miaht have... to be fair, i think that might be _ have... to be fair, i think that might be a — have... to be fair, i think that might be a bit _ have. .. to be fair, i think that might be a bit of— have... to be fair, i think that might be a bit of spin - have... to be fair, i think that might be a bit of spin and - might be a bit of spin and distortion. it was pointed out by steve, some of them have seen their friends and loved ones drown. that may be a reason for their trauma when it comes to the sea. haifa may be a reason for their trauma when it comes to the sea. how many esterda when it comes to the sea. how many yesterday claimed _ when it comes to the sea. how many yesterday claimed to _ when it comes to the sea. how many yesterday claimed to be _ when it comes to the sea. how many yesterday claimed to be scared - when it comes to the sea. how many yesterday claimed to be scared of. yesterday claimed to be scared of water? _ yesterday claimed to be scared of water? we had about 20 people claim that. water? we had about 20 people claim that the _ water? we had about 20 people claim that. the number of people who died in the _ that. the number of people who died in the channel —— die in the channel is low— in the channel —— die in the channel is low so _ in the channel —— die in the channel is low so the — in the channel —— die in the channel is low so the idea that all 20 would have experienced that is clearly bogus — have experienced that is clearly bogus it— have experienced that is clearly boaus. �* ., , have experienced that is clearly bonus.�* ., , , have experienced that is clearly boaus. ., i, , bogus. a “ourney perhaps, but i heard bogus. ajourney perhaps, but i heard you _ bogus. ajourney perhaps, but i heard you reacting _ bogus. ajourney perhaps, but i heard you reacting to _ bogus. ajourney perhaps, but i heard you reacting to some - bogus. ajourney perhaps, but i heard you reacting to some of l bogus. ajourney perhaps, but i - heard you reacting to some of that, steve smith, and it was the point about it should be more like a detention centre. please come in and speak to tom stop i remind people to get in touch via text. we will read some texts soon. it get in touch via text. we will read some texts soon.— get in touch via text. we will read some texts soon. it should be more like a detention _ some texts soon. it should be more like a detention centre? _ some texts soon. it should be more like a detention centre? so - some texts soon. it should be more like a detention centre? so who - some texts soon. it should be more like a detention centre? so who are j like a detention centre? so who are we detaining? some of the clients are not necessarily earmarked for the barge but one of our clients formally served in the afghan army supporting british troops in the war in afghanistan. another was a pilot for the afghan in afghanistan. another was a pilot forthe afghan air in afghanistan. another was a pilot for the afghan airforce in afghanistan. another was a pilot for the afghan air force supporting british troops in afghanistan, one of the 1's who has been earmarked for the barge is a human rights lawyer from for the barge is a human rights lawyerfrom iran who had for the barge is a human rights lawyer from iran who had to flee the regime and we know what human rights law is like in iran, pretty well nonexistent. i'm a former military officer myself, i've been in this places and seen what these people had to go through, which is unlike any of those making political commentary about it. these are genuine, we know this for sure, we are supporting thousands of asylum seekers across the country, this is just a gut feeling. we know for sure what the experiences are of many of these people and to glibly say... how do you know for sure? because we seak to how do you know for sure? because we speak to them — how do you know for sure? because we speak to them day _ how do you know for sure? because we speak to them day in, _ how do you know for sure? because we speak to them day in, day _ how do you know for sure? because we speak to them day in, day out - how do you know for sure? because we speak to them day in, day out and - speak to them day in, day out and know their stories. we see their trauma and stress and anxiety. you don't know — trauma and stress and anxiety. you don't know for _ trauma and stress and anxiety. you don't know for sure. let _ trauma and stress and anxiety. you don't know for sure. let me - trauma and stress and anxiety. you don't know for sure. let me reflect| don't know for sure. let me reflect some of the _ don't know for sure. let me reflect some of the reaction _ don't know for sure. let me reflect some of the reaction of— don't know for sure. let me reflect some of the reaction of our - some of the reaction of our listeners. how do you know they are telling you the truth? we listeners. how do you know they are telling you the truth?— telling you the truth? we can see from their reactions, _ telling you the truth? we can see from their reactions, we - telling you the truth? we can see from their reactions, we know- telling you the truth? we can see l from their reactions, we know what they have been through and there is a credibility in the stories they tell us. every now and again somebody might try and spin a story but that's not generally the case. we are dealing with people who have been through real trauma and we can see it and we can tell it. in any case, why would you flee your country to come over here and loaf around on benefits? we are seeing people who have come through the most extraordinary, difficult, dangerous, threatening periods of their lives. they don't want to come here, they would rather be at home. four out of five refugees are in countries adjacent to the ones they have fled. they don't want to cross the borders or through libya where there is a save trade and torture in place, they don't want to cross the channel and flimsy boats and risk drowning, and the mediterranean. to go through all that is not to come here and loaf around on benefits. let me put that to tom and some texts and calls to come but it's interesting hearing the two of you exchanging views on this. tom hunt, conservative mp, why would they want to come here, in the words of steve, and loaf around on benefits? llrrul’ith and loaf around on benefits? with retards and loaf around on benefits? with re . ards to and loaf around on benefits? with regards to steve, _ and loaf around on benefits? with regards to steve, you put to him, how did _ regards to steve, you put to him, how did you — regards to steve, you put to him, how did you know for sure these people _ how did you know for sure these people are — how did you know for sure these people are telling the truth? he doesn't — people are telling the truth? he doesn't know for sure, he wasn't able _ doesn't know for sure, he wasn't able to— doesn't know for sure, he wasn't able to provide a decent answer to that _ able to provide a decent answer to that in_ able to provide a decent answer to that. in terms of those who have illegally — that. in terms of those who have illegally entered our country from france, _ illegally entered our country from france, it— illegally entered our country from france, it is the case that they have _ france, it is the case that they have gone _ france, it is the case that they have gone through multiple safe european countries, multiple safe european — european countries, multiple safe european countries, multiple safe european countries, they have refused — european countries, they have refused to apply for asylum in those countries _ refused to apply for asylum in those countries. if i was a genuine refugee _ countries. if i was a genuine refugee fleeing for my life, i would be very— refugee fleeing for my life, i would be very happy to apply in the first country— be very happy to apply in the first country i — be very happy to apply in the first country i arrived in for asylum. i want _ country i arrived in for asylum. i want us — country i arrived in for asylum. i want us to— country i arrived in for asylum. i want us to take a fair number of genuine— want us to take a fair number of genuine refugees...— want us to take a fair number of genuine refugees... what if you had relatives in — genuine refugees... what if you had relatives in this _ genuine refugees... what if you had relatives in this country? _ genuine refugees... what if you had relatives in this country? would - genuine refugees... what if you had relatives in this country? would you| relatives in this country? would you still apply for the first country that you pass through? i still apply for the first country that you pass through? i would say we hear that _ that you pass through? i would say we hear that quite _ that you pass through? i would say we hear that quite a _ that you pass through? i would say we hear that quite a lot, _ that you pass through? i would say we hear that quite a lot, the - that you pass through? i would say we hear that quite a lot, the vast l we hear that quite a lot, the vast majority— we hear that quite a lot, the vast majority do — we hear that quite a lot, the vast majority do not have relatives in the uk, — majority do not have relatives in the uk, they do not speak english. some _ the uk, they do not speak english. some do. — the uk, they do not speak english. some do. i— the uk, they do not speak english. some do, i appreciate that, but not all. some do, i appreciate that, but not all it's_ some do, i appreciate that, but not all. it's about being a refugee in getting — all. it's about being a refugee in getting to — all. it's about being a refugee in getting to a safe place. there should — getting to a safe place. there should be an obligation, in my view, to apply— should be an obligation, in my view, to apply for— should be an obligation, in my view, to apply for asylum in the first safe _ to apply for asylum in the first safe country you come to. we want a compassionate system where we take a fair share _ compassionate system where we take a fair share of— compassionate system where we take a fair share of genuine refugees. you're — fair share of genuine refugees. you're not _ fair share of genuine refugees. you're not sounding very compassionate if you think it should be more like a detention centre. it doesn't sound particularly compassionate.— doesn't sound particularly compassionate. doesn't sound particularly comassionate. ,, . �* , ., compassionate. since i've been an mp, three — compassionate. since i've been an mp, three times _ compassionate. since i've been an mp, three times i've _ compassionate. since i've been an mp, three times i've been - compassionate. since i've been an mp, three times i've been to - compassionate. since i've been an mp, three times i've been to the l mp, three times i've been to the largest— mp, three times i've been to the largest refugee camp in the world. i'm somebody who wanted to take a fair number— i'm somebody who wanted to take a fair number of refugees. the ones coming _ fair number of refugees. the ones coming from france are overwhelmingly single men, interesting, isn't it? i'm compassionate but we have to have a system _ compassionate but we have to have a system that _ compassionate but we have to have a system that is controlled, this is the opposite of controlled and the system _ the opposite of controlled and the system is — the opposite of controlled and the system is compromising our ability to have _ system is compromising our ability to have a _ system is compromising our ability to have a managed and controlled a system _ to have a managed and controlled a system to _ to have a managed and controlled a system to welcome the most genuine refugees, _ system to welcome the most genuine refugees, many of whom are women and children. _ refugees, many of whom are women and children. from _ refugees, many of whom are women and children, from across the world. whatever— children, from across the world. whatever the well—meaning, in my view, _ whatever the well—meaning, in my view, if— whatever the well—meaning, in my view, if you — whatever the well—meaning, in my view, if you have millions of people across _ view, if you have millions of people across the — view, if you have millions of people across the country, the consequences of what _ across the country, the consequences of what they— across the country, the consequences of what they are doing is crippling our management for compassionate support— our management for compassionate support for— our management for compassionate support for people like you i met at the refugee camp in bangladesh. —— people _ the refugee camp in bangladesh. —— people like — the refugee camp in bangladesh. —— people like who i met. gn the refugee camp in bangladesh. -- people like who i met.— people like who i met. on the care for calais website _ people like who i met. on the care for calais website this _ people like who i met. on the care for calais website this morning, i for calais website this morning, steve, it is reflecting a point i was going to put to you which is a fairly clear one, which has been expressed by quite a few people this morning. your website says, "if my family were bombed and had lost everything, i'd like to think someone somewhere in the world would help them if i couldn't." that comes from sarah, a mother and a volunteer in leeds. but if they had been bombed and lost everything, what with the problem be of living on a barge with pretty good facilities? we think is a civilised wealthy countries that the barges in appropriate for those who have already suffered trauma and potentially dangerous at sea. in terms of it acting as a deterrent. 0f terms of it acting as a deterrent. of course, people who have lost everything and lived rough in places like calais and dunkirk and have two cross places like libya and the mediterranean, —— have to cross places, anything is going to be better but the barges a floating symbol of failure because there are 170,000 individuals stuck in the asylum system awaiting claims. the numbers on that have become appalling over the last ten years. ten years ago, 380 caseworkers were able to deal with 1a claims per month. now 1200, so roughly three times as many are only doing four claims a month. sort out the asylum system. your other speaker mentioned a managed and controlled system, it's clearly not managed and controlled, is completely broken and the bibby stockholm is simply a floating symbol of failure. i let ou floating symbol of failure. i let you come _ floating symbol of failure. i let you come back _ floating symbol of failure. i let you come back in _ floating symbol of failure. i let you come back in a _ floating symbol of failure. i let you come back in a minute, tom. jane and essex, a collarfrom loughborough and edward from motherwell. what do you think of the barge? i motherwell. what do you think of the barae? ~ . ., , , barge? i think the country is overcrowded, _ barge? i think the country is overcrowded, we _ barge? i think the country is overcrowded, we got - barge? i think the country is| overcrowded, we got asylum seekers... i was born in africa but i came in 1967 with my parents but i didn't come here illegally, we were literally kicked out of africa so that's why my parents came here. to look at all these asylum seekers coming here illegally, they are coming here illegally, they are coming here illegally, they are coming here for one thing, financially. i accept that's... haifa financially. iaccept that's... how do ou financially. i accept that's. .. how do you know _ financially. iaccept that's... how do you know that? _ financially. iaccept that's... how do you know that? some - financially. i accept that's... how do you know that? some of them have suffered homophobia. i5 do you know that? some of them have suffered homophobia.— suffered homophobia. is more ma'ori suffered homophobia. is more majority come _ suffered homophobia. is more majority come from _ suffered homophobia. is more majority come from war-torn l majority come from war—torn countries which i accept, i'm not denying that —— a small menorah taken from war—torn countries but the vast majority come for a financial benefit. the town that i live in, all the hotels are full of asylum seekers. no names mentioned but there are a couple of chaps coming to the library every day and they have laptops, everything, they are doing pretty well. i'd be lucky if i can afford a laptop and i'm struggling. these people get everything handed on a plate. when we came here in the �*60s, we were on hand at everything on a plate. when the asians came in the late 60s and 70s, we were not given a golden plate and food and everything, we had to struggle and work hard for it. set up businesses and all that. but now the majority of them, not all of them, don't get me wrong, but nearly all of them are coming here for financial benefit.— nearly all of them are coming here for financial benefit. having access to a la -to- for financial benefit. having access to a laptop is _ for financial benefit. having access to a laptop is going _ for financial benefit. having access to a laptop is going to _ for financial benefit. having access to a laptop is going to help - for financial benefit. having access to a laptop is going to help you - for financial benefit. having accessj to a laptop is going to help you set “p to a laptop is going to help you set up a business, isn't it?— up a business, isn't it? probably, es full up a business, isn't it? probably, yes full stop _ up a business, isn't it? probably, yes full stop l'm _ up a business, isn't it? probably, yes full stop i'm not _ up a business, isn't it? probably, yes full stop i'm not denying - up a business, isn't it? probably, yes full stop i'm not denying thatj yes full stop i'm not denying that but they've got access to a laptop, it makes you wonder where they got the laptop. it makes you wonder where they got the la--to. , . it makes you wonder where they got thelato. ,, it makes you wonder where they got thela..to,, ,, ., it makes you wonder where they got thelauto. ,, ., ., , the laptop. jane, speak to pradeep, exchanue the laptop. jane, speak to pradeep, exchange thoughts. _ the laptop. jane, speak to pradeep, exchange thoughts. i _ the laptop. jane, speak to pradeep, exchange thoughts. i don't - the laptop. jane, speak to pradeep, exchange thoughts. i don't disagree that the system _ exchange thoughts. i don't disagree that the system is _ exchange thoughts. i don't disagree that the system is not _ exchange thoughts. i don't disagree that the system is not working, - that the system is not working, that's— that the system is not working, that's a — that the system is not working, that's a very valid point, but i do feel as _ that's a very valid point, but i do feel as though... i feel ashamed, i'm feel as though... i feel ashamed, i'm not— feel as though... i feel ashamed, i'm not an — feel as though... i feel ashamed, i'm not an activist by any stretch of the _ i'm not an activist by any stretch of the imagination but i feel ashamed that we do have this attitude _ ashamed that we do have this attitude. it's so unwelcoming, which is very— attitude. it's so unwelcoming, which is very un—british but we are all human— is very un—british but we are all human beings and these people haven't— human beings and these people haven't risked their lives for the hell of— haven't risked their lives for the hell of it — haven't risked their lives for the hell of it -- _ haven't risked their lives for the hell of it. —— risked their lives for the — hell of it. —— risked their lives for the hell— hell of it. —— risked their lives for the hell of it. i don't have a problem — for the hell of it. i don't have a problem so _ for the hell of it. i don't have a problem so much with the bibby stockholm, i have a problem with the amount _ stockholm, i have a problem with the amount of— stockholm, i have a problem with the amount of people that it is being suggested are housed there because the fire _ suggested are housed there because the fire service has suggested that his high— the fire service has suggested that his high risk so we are putting people — his high risk so we are putting people at— his high risk so we are putting people at risk again sol his high risk so we are putting people at risk again so i don't understand that.— people at risk again so i don't understand that. g ., ., ., understand that. jane, what i would sa , it's understand that. jane, what i would say. it's not — understand that. jane, what i would say, it's not about _ understand that. jane, what i would say, it's not about being _ say, it's not about being compassionate, it'sjust say, it's not about being compassionate, it's just that in this country, we haven't got the capacity to take loads and loads of people into this country. basically, we are living on an island in the more people that come here and settle here and bring all their families here, wejust haven't got the space. families here, we 'ust haven't got the sace. ~ ., ., ., families here, we 'ust haven't got the seepe— families here, we 'ust haven't got the sace. ~ ., ., ., ., the space. what we need to do a sort out the system- _ the space. what we need to do a sort out the system. if _ the space. what we need to do a sort out the system. if we _ the space. what we need to do a sort out the system. if we had _ the space. what we need to do a sort out the system. if we had the - the space. what we need to do a sort out the system. if we had the space, | out the system. if we had the space, the facilities, _ out the system. if we had the space, the facilities, fair _ out the system. if we had the space, the facilities, fair enough, _ out the system. if we had the space, the facilities, fair enough, i - the facilities, fair enough, i haven't got an argument. but literally, this country is basically full to the brim.— literally, this country is basically full to the brim. your compassion would be shown _ full to the brim. your compassion would be shown if— full to the brim. your compassion would be shown if you _ full to the brim. your compassion would be shown if you started - full to the brim. your compassion l would be shown if you started with that, _ would be shown if you started with that, which — would be shown if you started with that, which you didn't. if we are spending — that, which you didn't. if we are spending nearly £6 million a day on hotels, _ spending nearly £6 million a day on hotels, then we are already dealing with the _ hotels, then we are already dealing with the system on some level. we need _ with the system on some level. we need to— with the system on some level. we need to channel that money more into getting _ need to channel that money more into getting the _ need to channel that money more into getting the asylum seekers their application their application is processed. that's where we are failing — processed. that's where we are failing i— processed. that's where we are failing. i don't understand why the boats— failing. i don't understand why the boats aren't being stopped and we don't _ boats aren't being stopped and we don't put — boats aren't being stopped and we don't put something different in place _ don't put something different in place if— don't put something different in place. if the asylum seekers know where _ place. if the asylum seekers know where to — place. if the asylum seekers know where to go to get on a boat and hand _ where to go to get on a boat and hand over— where to go to get on a boat and hand over thousands of pounds to do so, why— hand over thousands of pounds to do so, why are — hand over thousands of pounds to do so, why are we not stopping those boats? _ so, why are we not stopping those boats? i_ so, why are we not stopping those boats? i don't think it's the people on them, — boats? i don't think it's the people on them, i— boats? i don't think it's the people on them, i think it's the people that are — on them, i think it's the people that are facilitating that. you say that... that are facilitating that. you say that- -- we _ that are facilitating that. you say that... we are _ that are facilitating that. you say that... we are spending - that are facilitating that. you say that... we are spending nearly i that are facilitating that. you say l that... we are spending nearly £6 million a day- _ that... we are spending nearly £6 million a day. it _ that... we are spending nearly £6 million a day. it is _ that... we are spending nearly £6 million a day. it is horrendous, i million a day. it is horrendous, it's a complete joke. million a day. it is horrendous, it's a completejoke. but million a day. it is horrendous, it's a complete joke. but there are real people in this country who are really struggling with the cost—of—living crisis. you talk about the barge and all that and they have got facilities like gyms, i haven't got a gym, i wish i had a gym, i'm not getting three meals a day. gym, i'm not getting three meals a da . ., , �* , gym, i'm not getting three meals a da. ., ,�*,., day. pradeep, i'd be fascinated with steve smith's _ day. pradeep, i'd be fascinated with steve smith's response _ day. pradeep, i'd be fascinated with steve smith's response given - day. pradeep, i'd be fascinated with steve smith's response given to - day. pradeep, i'd be fascinated with | steve smith's response given to what you are saying about your family coming here in 1967 and working hard to set up a business, you are saying there is too much stress on all our public services. let's let steve smith speak to pradeep about this. i see that view a lot when we discuss this. steve. see that view a lot when we discuss this- steve-— this. steve. the asylum seekers we seak this. steve. the asylum seekers we s - eak to this. steve. the asylum seekers we speak to want _ this. steve. the asylum seekers we speak to want nothing _ this. steve. the asylum seekers we speak to want nothing more - this. steve. the asylum seekers we speak to want nothing more than i this. steve. the asylum seekers wej speak to want nothing more than to move into society, to integrate with communities, to getjobs to work, to contribute, to the uk. they want to be with their families and set up homes they have had before, they don't want to flee over here or be here, they want to be in their countries of origin but they simply can't be because they have been bombed out of their homes, terrorised and victims of persecution.— terrorised and victims of persecution. terrorised and victims of ersecution. . , ., , ., , persecution. why are they mainly oune persecution. why are they mainly young men? _ persecution. why are they mainly young men? we _ persecution. why are they mainly young men? we have _ persecution. why are they mainly young men? we have heard - persecution. why are they mainly young men? we have heard that| persecution. why are they mainly . young men? we have heard that and it's a common _ young men? we have heard that and it's a common argument, _ young men? we have heard that and it's a common argument, as - young men? we have heard that and it's a common argument, as is - young men? we have heard that and it's a common argument, as is the i it's a common argument, as is the one about,... but it's a common argument, as is the one about.---_ one about,... but it's true, why is that the case? — one about,... but it's true, why is that the case? pradeep. - one about,... but it's true, why is that the case? pradeep. like - one about,... but it's true, why is that the case? pradeep. like i- one about,... but it's true, why is| that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier, that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier. when _ that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier, when i _ that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier, when i go _ that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier, when i go to _ that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier, when i go to my _ that the case? pradeep. like i said earlier, when i go to my local- earlier, when i go to my local library. — earlier, when i go to my local library. '— earlier, when i go to my local library, i see quite a few asylum seekers— library, i see quite a few asylum seekers coming in. they are not ladies _ seekers coming in. they are not ladies or— seekers coming in. they are not ladies or kids or children, the majority— ladies or kids or children, the majority of the asylum seekers coming — majority of the asylum seekers coming to the local library in loughborough, the majority of them are male, _ loughborough, the majority of them are male, pretty healthy, strong, theyare — are male, pretty healthy, strong, they are not kids or women or whatever, _ they are not kids or women or whatever, they are male adults. there _ whatever, they are male adults. there are — whatever, they are male adults. there are two reasons for this. one is that it is male adults who have principally been targeted as former members of military organisations and other organisations. in afghanistan, translators that accompany the british forces were not going to be women and children, they were going to be men, added to which thejourney to they were going to be men, added to which the journey to the uk is incredibly dangerous, travelling through countries like libya, across water in flimsy boats, it's incredibly dangerous. would you really want to risk your entire family? would you really want to risk that in coming to this country? so they tend to be those that are strongest and fittest who can bring their families with them in due course. ~ , ., �* their families with them in due course. . , ., �* y course. why don't they live in the first country _ course. why don't they live in the first country they _ course. why don't they live in the first country they come _ course. why don't they live in the first country they come to? - course. why don't they live in the first country they come to? like l course. why don't they live in the i first country they come to? like the british— first country they come to? like the british asians, we were kicked out by idi _ british asians, we were kicked out by idi amin— british asians, we were kicked out by idi amin in the late 605, early 70s _ by idi amin in the late 605, early 70s we — by idi amin in the late 605, early 705. we would have stayed in uganda and nairobi~ _ 705. we would have stayed in uganda and nairobi. it�*s 70s. we would have stayed in uganda and nairobi. �* , , 70s. we would have stayed in uganda and nairobi. v , ,, and nairobi. it's interesting you didn't no and nairobi. it's interesting you didn't go to _ and nairobi. it's interesting you didn't go to the _ and nairobi. it's interesting you didn't go to the adjacent - and nairobi. it's interesting you - didn't go to the adjacent countries, who came to britain because you saw it as a home country. —— you came to britain. it as a home country. -- you came to britain. ~ it as a home country. -- you came to britain. . ., ., ., , , , britain. we would have happily sta ed britain. we would have happily stayed there — britain. we would have happily stayed there but _ britain. we would have happily stayed there but we _ britain. we would have happily stayed there but we were - britain. we would have happily. stayed there but we were kicked britain. we would have happily - stayed there but we were kicked out. so when _ stayed there but we were kicked out. so when people travel across europe, you can't expect countries like italy on the edge of the mediterranean to accept the vast majority of asylum seekers just because they happen to be the nearest one. secondly, english is a much more commonly spoken language than german, french or italian and so individuals travel to where they are likely to be able to work and that's where they can speak the language. there are many relatives here. we can't say every asylum seeker has relatives here, but there are many relatives here because of that international engagement over the years and because we were previously a colonial power. so there are bound to be lots of asylum seekers who have relatives here in the same way as your own family saw britain as a homeland to move from uganda instead of moving into one of the adjacent countries like rwanda as an alternative. at the moment, with things like the barge, it's rather questionable if it's compassionate but that's our international reputation. good mornine , international reputation. good morning, edward. _ international reputation. good morning, edward. i'm- international reputation. good morning, edward. i'm not- international reputation. good | morning, edward. i'm not used international reputation. good - morning, edward. i'm not used to edward, that _ morning, edward. i'm not used to edward, that sounds _ morning, edward. i'm not used to edward, that sounds like - morning, edward. i'm not used to edward, that sounds like my - morning, edward. i'm not used to edward, that sounds like my dad l morning, edward. i'm not used to| edward, that sounds like my dad is going _ edward, that sounds like my dad is going to _ edward, that sounds like my dad is going to pop— edward, that sounds like my dad is going to pop up— edward, that sounds like my dad is going to pop up and— edward, that sounds like my dad is going to pop up and he's— edward, that sounds like my dad is going to pop up and he's long - edward, that sounds like my dad is| going to pop up and he's long gone! 0ne going to pop up and he's long gone! one issue _ going to pop up and he's long gone! one issue first _ going to pop up and he's long gone! one issue first of— going to pop up and he's long gone! one issue first of all, _ going to pop up and he's long gone! one issue first of all, i'm _ going to pop up and he's long gone! one issue first of all, i'm irish- one issue first of all, i'm irish scottish. _ 0ne issue first of all, i'm irish scottish. my— 0ne issue first of all, i'm irish scottish, my family— one issue first of all, i'm irish scottish, my family came - one issue first of all, i'm irish scottish, my family came to l one issue first of all, i'm irish. scottish, my family came to this country— scottish, my family came to this country in — scottish, my family came to this country in the _ scottish, my family came to this country in the past _ scottish, my family came to this country in the past to _ scottish, my family came to this country in the past to escape - scottish, my family came to thi5| country in the past to escape the famine — country in the past to escape the famine what— country in the past to escape the famine. what is— country in the past to escape the famine. what is the _ country in the past to escape the famine. what is the problem - country in the past to escape thei famine. what is the problem with people _ famine. what is the problem with people trying _ famine. what is the problem with people trying to _ famine. what is the problem with people trying to come _ famine. what is the problem with people trying to come to - famine. what is the problem with people trying to come to a - famine. what is the problem withi people trying to come to a country that is— people trying to come to a country that is a _ people trying to come to a country that is a safe? _ people trying to come to a country that is a safe? secondly, - people trying to come to a country that is a safe? secondly, i- people trying to come to a country that is a safe? secondly, i worked| that is a safe? secondly, i worked in shotts — that is a safe? secondly, i worked in shotts prison _ that is a safe? secondly, i worked in shotts prison which _ that is a safe? secondly, i worked in shotts prison which is _ that is a safe? secondly, i worked in shotts prison which is the - that is a safe? secondly, i workedj in shotts prison which is the worst of the _ in shotts prison which is the worst of the worst, _ in shotts prison which is the worst of the worst, i_ in shotts prison which is the worst of the worst, i was _ in shotts prison which is the worst of the worst, i was involved - in shotts prison which is the worst of the worst, i was involved in - in shotts prison which is the worsti of the worst, i was involved in nine major— of the worst, i was involved in nine major incidents _ of the worst, i was involved in nine major incidents. the _ of the worst, i was involved in nine major incidents. the bibby- of the worst, i was involved in nine i major incidents. the bibby stockholm i5 major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder— major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder keg _ major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder keg. you _ major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder keg. you are _ major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder keg. you are going - major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder keg. you are going to- major incidents. the bibby stockholm is a powder keg. you are going to bel is a powder keg. you are going to be doubling _ is a powder keg. you are going to be doubling them — is a powder keg. you are going to be doubling them up. _ is a powder keg. you are going to be doubling them up, ramming - is a powder keg. you are going to be doubling them up, ramming these i is a powder keg. you are going to be i doubling them up, ramming these guys in. doubling them up, ramming these guys in there _ doubling them up, ramming these guys in there are— doubling them up, ramming these guys in. there are sectarian— doubling them up, ramming these guys in. there are sectarian issues— doubling them up, ramming these guys in. there are sectarian issues with - in. there are sectarian issues with regards _ in. there are sectarian issues with regards to— in. there are sectarian issues with regards to islam _ in. there are sectarian issues with regards to islam so _ in. there are sectarian issues with regards to islam so you _ in. there are sectarian issues with regards to islam so you could - in. there are sectarian issues with| regards to islam so you could have sunni _ regards to islam so you could have sunni in— regards to islam so you could have sunni in with — regards to islam so you could have sunni in with shia. _ regards to islam so you could have sunni in with shia. you _ regards to islam so you could have sunni in with shia. you could - regards to islam so you could have sunni in with shia. you could have| sunni in with shia. you could have different— sunni in with shia. you could have different groups _ sunni in with shia. you could have different groups that _ sunni in with shia. you could have different groups that are - sunni in with shia. you could have different groups that are naturally| different groups that are naturally warring _ different groups that are naturally warring there _ different groups that are naturally warring. there is _ different groups that are naturally warring. there is a _ different groups that are naturally warring. there is a duty— different groups that are naturally warring. there is a duty of- different groups that are naturally warring. there is a duty of care i different groups that are naturallyl warring. there is a duty of care not only to _ warring. there is a duty of care not only to protect _ warring. there is a duty of care not only to protect the _ warring. there is a duty of care not only to protect the staff _ warring. there is a duty of care not only to protect the staff that - warring. there is a duty of care not only to protect the staff that work. only to protect the staff that work there _ only to protect the staff that work there but— only to protect the staff that work there but also _ only to protect the staff that work there but also the _ only to protect the staff that work there but also the people - only to protect the staff that work there but also the people who - only to protect the staff that workj there but also the people who are seeking _ there but also the people who are seeking asylum~ _ there but also the people who are seeking asylum. it _ there but also the people who are seeking asylum. it is _ there but also the people who are seeking asylum. it is abhorrent. there but also the people who are seeking asylum. it is abhorrent to me why— seeking asylum. it is abhorrent to me why we — seeking asylum. it is abhorrent to me why we are _ seeking asylum. it is abhorrent to me why we are so— seeking asylum. it is abhorrent to me why we are so against... - seeking asylum. it is abhorrent to me why we are so against... andl me why we are so against... and pradeep, — me why we are so against... and pradeep, it— me why we are so against... and pradeep, it seems— me why we are so against... and pradeep, it seems to _ me why we are so against... and pradeep, it seems to be - me why we are so against... and pradeep, it seems to be that- me why we are so against... and pradeep, it seems to be that my| pradeep, it seems to be that my friends _ pradeep, it seems to be that my friends who— pradeep, it seems to be that my friends who are _ pradeep, it seems to be that my friends who are from _ pradeep, it seems to be that my friends who are from asia, - pradeep, it seems to be that my friends who are from asia, and l pradeep, it seems to be that my. friends who are from asia, and i'm going _ friends who are from asia, and i'm going to _ friends who are from asia, and i'm going to call — friends who are from asia, and i'm going to call a _ friends who are from asia, and i'm going to call a spade _ friends who are from asia, and i'm going to call a spade a _ friends who are from asia, and i'm going to call a spade a spade, - friends who are from asia, and i'm going to call a spade a spade, 5ee| going to call a spade a spade, see vociferous — going to call a spade a spade, see vociferous on _ going to call a spade a spade, see vociferous on this _ going to call a spade a spade, see vociferous on this issue _ going to call a spade a spade, see vociferous on this issue i- going to call a spade a spade, see vociferous on this issue i don't - vociferous on this issue i don't understand _ vociferous on this issue i don't understand it _ vociferous on this issue i don't understand it —— _ vociferous on this issue i don't understand it —— seem- vociferous on this issue i don't understand it —— seem more i understand it —— seem more vociferous _ understand it —— seem more vociferous. i'm _ understand it —— seem more vociferous. i'm proud - understand it —— seem more vociferous. i'm proud of- understand it —— seem more vociferous. i'm proud of myi vociferous. i'm proud of my heritage. _ vociferous. i'm proud of my heritage. we _ vociferous. i'm proud of my heritage, we came - vociferous. i'm proud of my heritage, we came from - vociferous. i'm proud of my. heritage, we came from ireland vociferous. i'm proud of my- heritage, we came from ireland to scotland _ heritage, we came from ireland to scotland to — heritage, we came from ireland to scotland to make _ heritage, we came from ireland to scotland to make a _ heritage, we came from ireland to scotland to make a better- heritage, we came from ireland to scotland to make a better life. - scotland to make a better life. there's — scotland to make a better life. there's plenty— scotland to make a better life. there's plenty of— scotland to make a better life. there's plenty of room - scotland to make a better life. there's plenty of room in - scotland to make a better life. there's plenty of room in thisl there's plenty of room in this country— there's plenty of room in this country we _ there's plenty of room in this country we call— there's plenty of room in this country we call britain - there's plenty of room in this country we call britain for - there's plenty of room in this . country we call britain for people to move — country we call britain for people to move in — country we call britain for people to move in it— country we call britain for people to move in. it must— country we call britain for people to move in. it must be _ country we call britain for peoplej to move in. it must be terrifying. if to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's _ to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's so — to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's so bad _ to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's so bad that _ to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's so bad that you _ to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's so bad that you leave - to move in. it must be terrifying. if it's so bad that you leave terra| if it's so bad that you leave terra firma _ if it's so bad that you leave terra firma and — if it's so bad that you leave terra firma and go _ if it's so bad that you leave terra firma and go onto— if it's so bad that you leave terra firma and go onto these - if it's so bad that you leave terra firma and go onto these bloody. firma and go onto these bloody boats. — firma and go onto these bloody boats. if— firma and go onto these bloody boats, if things _ firma and go onto these bloody boats, if things are _ firma and go onto these bloody boats, if things are so - firma and go onto these bloody i boats, if things are so dangerous, you need — boats, if things are so dangerous, you need to — boats, if things are so dangerous, you need to ask— boats, if things are so dangerous, you need to ask the _ boats, if things are so dangerous, you need to ask the question - boats, if things are so dangerous, i you need to ask the question why? they are _ you need to ask the question why? they are escaping _ you need to ask the question why? they are escaping not _ you need to ask the question why? they are escaping not only- you need to ask the question why? i they are escaping not only warlords, religious— they are escaping not only warlords, religious bigotry, _ they are escaping not only warlords, religious bigotry, homophobia, - they are escaping not only warlords, religious bigotry, homophobia, but i religious bigotry, homophobia, but theyare _ religious bigotry, homophobia, but they are also — religious bigotry, homophobia, but they are also escaping _ religious bigotry, homophobia, but they are also escaping climate - they are also escaping climate change — they are also escaping climate change. africa _ they are also escaping climate change. africa is _ they are also escaping climate change. africa is boiling - they are also escaping climate change. africa is boiling up. i they are also escaping climate i change. africa is boiling up. i've heard _ change. africa is boiling up. i've heard you — change. africa is boiling up. i've heard you talking _ change. africa is boiling up. i've heard you talking through - change. africa is boiling up. i've i heard you talking through everyone else, _ heard you talking through everyone else, let _ heard you talking through everyone else, let me — heard you talking through everyone else, let me say— heard you talking through everyone else, let me say my— heard you talking through everyone else, let me say my piece. - heard you talking through everyone else, let me say my piece. i- heard you talking through everyone. else, let me say my piece. i thought this was— else, let me say my piece. i thought this was the — else, let me say my piece. i thought this was the nicky _ else, let me say my piece. i thought this was the nicky campbell- else, let me say my piece. i thought this was the nicky campbell show, i this was the nicky campbell show, not the _ this was the nicky campbell show, not the pradeep _ this was the nicky campbell show, not the pradeep show. _ this was the nicky campbell show, not the pradeep show. it’s - not the pradeep show. it's everyone's _ not the pradeep show. it's everyone's show, - not the pradeep show. iii“: everyone's show, you not the pradeep show.- everyone's show, you carry not the pradeep show- everyone's show, you carry on. not the pradeep show. it's - everyone's show, you carry on. i find it very difficult for us to be constantly _ find it very difficult for us to be constantly using _ find it very difficult for us to be constantly using tom - find it very difficult for us to be constantly using tom hunt, - find it very difficult for us to be. constantly using tom hunt, tory find it very difficult for us to be - constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've _ constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've been — constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've been in — constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've been in 13— constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've been in 13 years, _ constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've been in 13 years, let's- constantly using tom hunt, tory mp, they've been in 13 years, let's get- they've been in 13 years, let's get rid of— they've been in 13 years, let's get rid of them — they've been in 13 years, let's get rid of them. they _ they've been in 13 years, let's get rid of them. they have _ they've been in 13 years, let's get rid of them. they have made - they've been in 13 years, let's get rid of them. they have made a i they've been in 13 years, let's get- rid of them. they have made a mess, let's get— rid of them. they have made a mess, let's get rid _ rid of them. they have made a mess, let's get rid of— rid of them. they have made a mess, let's get rid of them, _ rid of them. they have made a mess, let's get rid of them, let's _ rid of them. they have made a mess, let's get rid of them, let's have - let's get rid of them, let's have compassion— let's get rid of them, let's have compassion for— let's get rid of them, let's have compassion for once, - let's get rid of them, let's have compassion for once, let's - let's get rid of them, let's have| compassion for once, let's have compassion _ tom hunt. is interesting on the oint tom hunt. is interesting on the point about— tom hunt. is interesting on the point about steve, _ tom hunt. is interesting on the point about steve, saying - tom hunt. is interesting on the point about steve, saying the i tom hunt. is interesting on the - point about steve, saying the reason why it is mainly young single men that dominate those coming in from france because they are more likely to be persecuted, all i see is so that with the women who i met in the refugee camp in bangladesh, many of whom had been repeatedly raped and chased from their home villages, that's a ludicrous argument to make the stock conveniently, a number of those who have illegally entered our country from france, they don't actually come from unsafe countries, many come from albania, some have come from india, some have come from turkey. it is simply not the case to suggest they all come from... mora... tom, more are coming from india recently and that is quite interesting because there has been an increasing ramp up of sectarian pressure, which was mentioned there by edward, a former prison guard, a mmp by edward, a former prison guard, a ramp up of sectarian pressure and also religious persecution in india. it is likely that many people in india will have linguistic ties to this country, cultural ties to this country, in some senses as well, because they have family ties to this country. so that is why dawn thanks for letting me in. it has been awhile since i got in. albania is clearly a safe country and we have returns to albania now which is good, we are still singing the enter key which is by and large safe countries, and it is clear from what steve said, i think almost every single person who turns up illegally on our shores and presents himself as a refugee was let in, doesn't take any account of the capacity challenge that would provide. it is almost certainly likely to be one of those people that would... we almost certainly likely to be one of those people that would. . .- those people that would... we will ask and a second. _ those people that would... we will ask and a second. uncapped - those people that would... we will ask and a second. uncapped safe i those people that would... we will. ask and a second. uncapped safe and leeal writs ask and a second. uncapped safe and legal writs would _ ask and a second. uncapped safe and legal writs would lead _ ask and a second. uncapped safe and legal writs would lead to... _ ask and a second. uncapped safe and legal writs would lead to... i - ask and a second. uncapped safe and legal writs would lead to... i think i legal writs would lead to... i think it's important, i have constituents, i know he doesn't, but if he did have constituents he would explain to them the consequence of that for our public services, for our housing challenges, for social cohesion. the reality is today, british the vast majority of the british public don't like the fact there is a 4—star hotel in ipswich they are paying for, people getting three meals a day in a 4—star hotel while they are struggling to pay their bills. much rather have them on the biggest outcome, of course they would do it. it is interesting to be busy today have had two members of the public who have been staunchly... it is a minority position in the... share who have been staunchly... it is a minority position in the... are you sa in: minority position in the... are you saying that _ minority position in the... are you saying that we _ minority position in the... are you saying that we are _ minority position in the... are you saying that we are manipulating i minority position in the... are you i saying that we are manipulating our callers? hang on. is that what you are saying? because that is an absolutely disgraceful accusation. that is quite a lot. i think you have gone a bit sensitive there. ida. have gone a bit sensitive there. no, because you — have gone a bit sensitive there. no, because you have said something which is undermining thejournals professionalism up our team. we do not do that! this i professionalism up our team. we do not do that!— not do that! as i said, you started this off by saying _ not do that! as i said, you started this off by saying this _ not do that! as i said, you started this off by saying this is _ not do that! as i said, you started this off by saying this is a - not do that! as i said, you started this off by saying this is a very - this off by saying this is a very polarising issue people have very strong issues, while... hang polarising issue people have very strong issues, while. . ._ strong issues, while... hang on, pradeep was _ strong issues, while... hang on, pradeep was on _ strong issues, while... hang on, pradeep was on longer - strong issues, while... hang on, pradeep was on longer than - strong issues, while... hang on, i pradeep was on longer than anyone else. i'm sorry to be so irked by this, but we've listened with great respect for what you're saying and now you are attacking the messenger. 0k, look, if you add together at the time taken by the two callers who are against the... far time taken by the two callers who are against the. . ._ are against the... for goodness' sake. are against the... for goodness' sake- put _ are against the. .. for goodness' sake- put your— are against the... for goodness' sake. put your stopwatch - are against the... for goodness' sake. put your stopwatch away i are against the... for goodness' i sake. put your stopwatch away and let's get on with the conversation. do you want to answer that point, which is a fair point to stop hang on a second, i'm going to steve smith, ask him your number one... ask your top question, tom, and he can answer you. ask your top question, tom, and he can answer you-— can answer you. bring him on again then. can answer you. bring him on again then- asking _ can answer you. bring him on again then. asking the _ can answer you. bring him on again then. asking the question. - can answer you. bring him on again then. asking the question. ask- can answer you. bring him on again i then. asking the question. ask steve smith a question, _ then. asking the question. ask steve smith a question, the _ then. asking the question. ask steve smith a question, the guy _ then. asking the question. ask steve smith a question, the guy you - then. asking the question. ask steve smith a question, the guy you were i smith a question, the guy you were referring to. i smith a question, the guy you were referring to— smith a question, the guy you were referring to. i put a huge number of auestions referring to. i put a huge number of questions to — referring to. i put a huge number of questions to him. _ referring to. i put a huge number of questions to him. asking _ referring to. i put a huge number of questions to him. asking the - referring to. i put a huge number of questions to him. asking the main i questions to him. asking the main one. jill mccann _ questions to him. asking the main one. jill mccann because - questions to him. asking the main one. jill mccann because he - questions to him. asking the main one. jill mccann because he keeps questions to him. asking the main i one. jill mccann because he keeps on talking over me. i said to him, he made an assertion that the reason why the vast majority... the made an assertion that the reason why the vast majority. . ._ why the vast ma'ority. .. the vast ma'ori why the vast ma'ority. .. the vast majority — why the vast majority... the vast majority are single _ why the vast majority... the vast majority are single men - why the vast majority... the vast majority are single men because| majority are single men because they're more likely to be persecuted, if i him i met three women refugees in bangladesh that have been repeatedly raped, it is absolutely ridiculous to claim there are more men because they are more likely to be persecuted. what is his response? likely to be persecuted. what is his res-onse? ., ., response? there we are, we got there. response? there we are, we got there- carry — response? there we are, we got there- carry on _ response? there we are, we got there. carry on an _ response? there we are, we got there. carry on an answer - response? there we are, we got there. carry on an answer that i there. carry on an answer that point. what is his response? flan there. carry on an answer that point. what is his response? can i answerresponse _ point. what is his response? can i answerresponse is _ point. what is his response? can i answerresponse is this. _ point. what is his response? can i answerresponse is this. what - point. what is his response? can i answerresponse is this. what i said before _ answerresponse is this. what i said before was— answerresponse is this. what i said before was only part of the answer. so i before was only part of the answer. so i drew _ before was only part of the answer. so i drew an — before was only part of the answer. so i drew an example with translators in afghanistan in the afghan— translators in afghanistan in the afghan war, we saw the panic at cab or layer— afghan war, we saw the panic at cab or layer with — afghan war, we saw the panic at cab or layer with almost no notice to british— or layer with almost no notice to british and — or layer with almost no notice to british and american forces pulled out and _ british and american forces pulled out and people clutching onto the wheels _ out and people clutching onto the wheels of— out and people clutching onto the wheels of aircraft a5 out and people clutching onto the wheels of aircraft as they left in order— wheels of aircraft as they left in order to — wheels of aircraft as they left in order to escape the taliban —— kabul airport _ order to escape the taliban —— kabul airport in _ order to escape the taliban —— kabul airport. in circumstances like that is not _ airport. in circumstances like that is not surprising young men are the ones _ is not surprising young men are the ones who— is not surprising young men are the ones who are fit, able, have formally— ones who are fit, able, have formally served in armed forces or forces _ formally served in armed forces or forces that— formally served in armed forces or forces that were hostile to the opposition parties in power and war-torn — opposition parties in power and war—torn countries and are not just talking _ war—torn countries and are not just talking about afghanistan, drogba iraq, sudan, waterand in fragile states — iraq, sudan, waterand in fragile states. another aspect to this, the point _ 5tate5. another aspect to this, the point that— states. another aspect to this, the point that has been overlooked, this is an incredibly dangerous journey and we _ is an incredibly dangerous journey and we hear individuals are paying thousands— and we hear individuals are paying thousands to get people smugglers across— thousands to get people smugglers across the channel... xlaf'ergar thousands to get people smugglers across the channel. . ._ across the channel... very quickly. i'll eet across the channel... very quickly. ill get there- _ across the channel... very quickly. i'll get there. we _ across the channel... very quickly. i'll get there. we don't _ across the channel... very quickly. i'll get there. we don't as - across the channel... very quickly. i'll get there. we don't as a - i'll get there. we don't a5 a charity— i'll get there. we don't a5 a charity support that. we would like to see _ charity support that. we would like to see the — charity support that. we would like to see the boats put out of action and safe — to see the boats put out of action and safe legal writs put in place but if _ and safe legal writs put in place but if people are going to take that journey, _ but if people are going to take that journey, they don't take it with a wife and — journey, they don't take it with a wife and child in tow, they send the fittest, _ wife and child in tow, they send the fittest, youngest, most able to survive — fittest, youngest, most able to survive it. _ fittest, youngest, most able to survive it, and once they are herem _ survive it, and once they are here... ., ~' ,, survive it, and once they are here... ., ,, i. ., survive it, and once they are here... ., ,, ., ,., here... thank you for explaining that. i here... thank you for explaining that- l have _ here... thank you for explaining that. i have to _ here... thank you for explaining that. i have to draw _ here... thank you for explaining that. i have to draw it _ here... thank you for explaining i that. i have to draw it temporarily to a close because we want to hear from more review. whatever you think. you'll hearfrom people from more review. whatever you think. you'll hear from people you disagree with, people you agree with, that's how it goes. more to come. and breeze. the law society which represents large reserves in england and wales has the necessary powers are already in place to deal with immigration advisers engaged in misconduct. at least seven people have been killed in a russian missile attack on a residential building in the east of ukraine. two missiles hit the town, the second as rescuers were searching for victims of the first. it is exam results day for thousands of people is scotland who have sat their nationals, hires and advanced tires. the scottish qualifications authority has warned that the system still hasn't fully recovered from the pandemic. an emmerdale actor has become the latest addition to join strictly come dancing this year, joining other celebrity's. at the women's world cup colombia goalless againstjamaica in their last 16 match in melbourne. the winner will meet england in the quarter—finals on saturday. the mexico midfielder edson alvarez will have a medical today ahead of becoming west ham's first signing of the summer. the premier league side have agreed a £35m. deal with ajax. there is growing uncertainty over the future ofjulen lopetegui at wolverhampton wanderers. the former bournemouth manager gary 0neil is under consideration should wolves part company with the spaniard at molineux. wolves play manchester united on monday night in their opening premier league fixture. boxing promoter eddie hearn says a new opponent for anthonyjoshua will be announced today. the former heavyweight world champion's rematch against dillian whyte in london on saturday was called off after whyte failed a drugs test. and in tennis, the british number one, katie boulter, is through to the second round of the wta tournament in montreal, where she will face the american teenager, coco gauff. your reaction to the barge, what we are discussing this morning. a big response. we will have to carry this on after ten o'clock. they are coming in on all sides. some texts. it would be great to everyone in but we don't have space, a lot of our land is not suitable for housing and we don't have the infrastructure in place to cope with their current population. top of the list,. should be afghans who helped us. it was good enough for our servicemen then, why not? for half that number of residents. a claim, i don't have that fact at my fingertips. thank you for that text. if these refugees are so desperately was so wrong about living safely and being cared for unable? while the basis negativity? sick and tired of all these protesters trying to scupper any attempt to ease the problems of asylum. what is so terrifying about being on a barge, according to this? it is incredible says guys in birmingham. this barge then, watch as her country become? an attempt to garner votes and to surely disenfranchise their tough on bullies. let's speak to claire. gaad bullies. let's speak to claire. good mornine. bullies. let's speak to claire. good morning- was _ bullies. let's speak to claire. good morning. was going _ bullies. let's speak to claire. good morning. was going to _ bullies. let's speak to claire. good morning. was going to come - bullies. let's speak to claire. good morning. was going to come to i bullies. let's speak to claire. good| morning. was going to come to you earlier that — morning. was going to come to you earlier that you _ morning. was going to come to you earlier that you may _ morning. was going to come to you earlier that you may have _ morning. was going to come to you earlier that you may have heard - morning. was going to come to you earlier that you may have heard we | earlier that you may have heard we got somewhat sidetracked stop it was a bit s-i , got somewhat sidetracked stop it was a bit spicy. wasn't _ got somewhat sidetracked stop it was a bit spicy, wasn't it? _ got somewhat sidetracked stop it was a bit spicy, wasn't it? always - got somewhat sidetracked stop it was a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. - got somewhat sidetracked stop it was a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i - a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i 'ust car a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i just carry on _ a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i just carry on and _ a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i just carry on and i _ a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i just carry on and i listen, - a bit spicy, wasn't it? always is. i just carry on and i listen, really. i just carry on and i listen, really. be with you any second. aj, came to the uk 1972, good to have you on the radio. greg and dunstable, rachel newcastle, hi, everybody. how are you doing? friendly voices, that's what i need. clear, what do you make of the barge?— of the barge? well, i think it was a aimmick of the barge? well, i think it was a gimmick from _ of the barge? well, i think it was a gimmick from the _ of the barge? well, i think it was a gimmick from the government, i of the barge? well, i think it was a| gimmick from the government, but they are quite right to look at alternative to hotel accommodation when you look at the cost to the british taxpayer, is enormous. having said that, the bill for the barge will overshadow any of the costs use for hotels at the moment. and it will be quite interesting. can you explain thatthat�*s interesting because it's all about bringing the £5.6 million a day on hotels down, so how will simply the cost of the party more than that? looking at the contract in place for this barge and possibly others, totals up to about £18 billion, i believe. and that's just for the parties themselves, not taking into account any other expenses for asylum relief or supplies or staffing, so i think the ultimate cost will be enormous and there is still no sign in place of trans agreement for people to be eligible to remain in the united kingdom, if you actually get to the point of processing those applications in the first place, so it's all very well and good for the government to say this is a temporary measure when we all know that asylum claims are taking several years to come to their conclusion. i5 taking several years to come to their conclusion.— their conclusion. is this about faults or bolts? _ their conclusion. is this about faults or bolts? it _ their conclusion. is this about faults or bolts? it is - their conclusion. is this about faults or bolts? it is it - their conclusion. is this about faults or bolts? it is it about i faults or bolts? it is it about properly addressing this problem or about being seen to try to address this problem? i about being seen to try to address this problem?— this problem? i think it's about bein: this problem? i think it's about being seen _ this problem? i think it's about being seen to _ this problem? i think it's about being seen to address - this problem? i think it's about being seen to address the - this problem? i think it's about - being seen to address the problem because the crux of the problem is processing in this country, there is also returns agreements of which we have very few, but also we are not looking globally at the reasons why people are fleeing their countries, and as you have said, there are a large number coming from india, due to the sectarian violence been carried out there at the moment, you have places like iran, iraq afghanistan where problems are well and places in africa, where you look at south sudan, eritrea, you are never going to be able to return people to those countries whilst their lives will be in danger and whilst those conflicts are ongoing, so we need to understand a little bit better of the reasons why people are coming also work with the international community, work with refugee camps to spread the refugees around anywhere equally, i think that's what everybody wants, people want refugees to be taken care they don't —— it doesn't necessarily mean they need to come to the united kingdom. the majority of the morning. it does make me laugh when you hear the numbers that some people put out there that millions of people are on the move and they're all coming here, because it clearly isn't true. take a very few individuals into this country and it may seem like a lot when you are looking at the news coverage, but the reality of the figures is that we are way down the list and i just want to sort of cover something that someone said earlier about safe countries and why don't people seek asylum there? there is no need for them to do so, they can claim asylum wherever they choose, and if you are going to say that they should only come here via legal means you should have those rates available, which we clearly don't. so almost talking at cross purposes by saying say country should offer those refuge because in that instance nobody would ever come the united kingdom and... i5 the united kingdom and... is important to point out as well that if their asylum claims were not processed in those countries, they have every legal right as individuals to go on to another country as well, that is the legal law. ajay, what do you think? gaad law. ajay, what do you think? good mornin: , law. ajay, what do you think? good morning, it — law. ajay, what do you think? good morning, it is _ law. ajay, what do you think? good morning, it is a _ law. ajay, what do you think? good morning, it is a difficult _ law. ajay, what do you think? (each. morning, it is a difficult question, there is no easy answer or solution to the problems we are facing as far as immigration and migrants coming over are concerned, i came over in 1972, we left with nothing when we were thrown out from uganda. we landed at gatwick airport, we were in a military camp for three and a half months before we were given a cancers. it was very basic but i had a warm bed, i had food on the table and didn't complain. what is the issue with the barge? where do we go? let's talk about the barge? just answer that question from ajay. we were you? you from kay. we were you? uganda. you had a from ajay. we were you? uganda. you had a warm — from ajay. we were you? uganda. you had a warm bed _ from ajay. we were you? uganda. you had a warm bed and _ from ajay. we were you? uganda. you had a warm bed and were _ from ajay. we were you? uganda. you had a warm bed and were made - had a warm bed and were made comfortable and you were going to start a new life here and you have and it's all been a long journey but it was one that you would never change. sign that we have an issue with the barge because of the experiences those likely to be put on have been there before hand. as i said before, this is a part that was built for 220 people and intention was to cram 506 on board. there have been severe concerns about the fire hazards, and although various ministers have said don't worry about it, is not a death trap, not another crime for waiting to happen, it appears exactly that way, there are very few fire exits, corridors, the long side of the part on the waterside set twice as many people on board in a panic trying to get away. it on board in a panic trying to get awa . , ., ., ~ ., ., away. it is on water, we know that some of those _ away. it is on water, we know that some of those who _ away. it is on water, we know that some of those who marched - away. it is on water, we know that some of those who marched to i away. it is on water, we know that some of those who marched to go | some of those who marched to go there _ some of those who marched to go there would have had dramatic experiences on water and we know although— experiences on water and we know although it — experiences on water and we know although it is not a detention facility— although it is not a detention facility very much resembles one with airport style security checks to go _ with airport style security checks to go through in and out. at with airport style security checks to go through in and out.- with airport style security checks to go through in and out. at the age of five and habits _ to go through in and out. at the age of five and habits of _ to go through in and out. at the age of five and habits of people - to go through in and out. at the age of five and habits of people shop, i . of five and habits of people shop, i have seen harder. when we came to this country, anything was better than what we left. so living in a military camp for three and half months with very basic facilities, i was grateful for a bed and food on my table and then we went through the process. i'm not saying that the barge is the ideal solution but is a solution for the time being while we put such a backlog, thousands of people coming over, your comment about coming to the uk because of language barriers, algeria is the second largest french—speaking country in the world, how many algerians are coming over? we have to be able to separate the migrants that are coming over illegally seeking asylum and economic migrants and i think that is the biggest hurdle we have.— and i think that is the biggest hurdle we have. , ., hurdle we have. interesting, hearing from british — hurdle we have. interesting, hearing from british asians _ hurdle we have. interesting, hearing from british asians who _ hurdle we have. interesting, hearing from british asians who came - hurdle we have. interesting, hearing from british asians who came in - hurdle we have. interesting, hearing from british asians who came in the | from british asians who came in the past from uganda and other places, saying you have to be grateful and go through perhaps a little less than five star comfort to begin with and then you forge a life in the country and if you want it badly enough, who can blame anyone for that, what is the problem with the barge? that, what is the problem with the barae? ~ ., that, what is the problem with the baree? ~ ., that, what is the problem with the baree? a ., , , . that, what is the problem with the bare? ., ,, . �*, ., barge? with all due respect, it's a situation i have _ barge? with all due respect, it's a situation i have not _ barge? with all due respect, it's a situation i have not been - barge? with all due respect, it's a situation i have not been through, but being that might what ajay has been through since arrangements, but being unable for an indeterminate period of time is two very different things. i'm about to be interrupted by each other here. fir it things. i'm about to be interrupted by each other here.— things. i'm about to be interrupted by each other here. or it might even be one of our— by each other here. or it might even be one of our other _ by each other here. or it might even be one of our other listeners, - by each other here. or it might even be one of our other listeners, but i be one of our other listeners, but you carry on. it is a drop in the ocean, literally. 500 people on a barge when there is in excess of 70,000 people waiting, processing for asylum, an indeterminate period of time, the home office and people who work for the home office are under huge pressure, political pressure, and its 500 people on a barge, dubbed the next grain fell, it is not a camp on land, it is not afew it is not a camp on land, it is not a few months in a cancers. it is a huee a few months in a cancers. it is a huge stretch _ a few months in a cancers. it is a huge stretch of— a few months in a cancers. it is a huge stretch of time, _ a few months in a cancers. it is a huge stretch of time, how - a few months in a cancers. it is a huge stretch of time, how is - a few months in a cancers. it is a i huge stretch of time, how is cheap by general, and it is nothing, it's not going to solve the costs because it is estimated to save about £10 a person, a symbol from a failing government. look over here, look at the barge, we are putting people in small boats and reports, don't look at the fact that people can... the fact the government is riddled by scandals and it speaks to the ugly sentiments being stirred up in this country. ida sentiments being stirred up in this count . ,, ,, sentiments being stirred up in this count . i. ,, , sentiments being stirred up in this count . ,, , , country. do you think it is acquires out folsom — country. do you think it is acquires out folsom prison? _ country. do you think it is acquires out folsom prison? -- _ country. do you think it is acquires out folsom prison? -- floating - out folsom prison? -- floating arison. out folsom prison? -- floating prison. absolutely. _ out folsom prison? -- floating prison. absolutely. it - out folsom prison? -- floating prison. absolutely. it is - out folsom prison? -- floating prison. absolutely. it is a - out folsom prison? -- floating| prison. absolutely. it is a costly exercise, nothing more, it is polarising but that's perhaps what the government wants. you have people in one camp or another camp, see polarising symbol, and it is distraction. see polarising symbol, and it is distraction-— see polarising symbol, and it isj distraction._ do distraction. needs to be on. do think it is _ distraction. needs to be on. do think it is a _ distraction. needs to be on. do think it is a quasi _ distraction. needs to be on. do think it is a quasi floating - distraction. needs to be on. do i think it is a quasi floating prison? a couple hundred people out of 437,000, it is not going to... it is a sticking plaster. it is not going to work. by doubling the amount of people going on the pole, it is going to bring the intensity of confinement even worse but as your other colours are saying, there is nothing wrong with the camps we have idle, it was good enough for british soldiers, why is it not good enough for these people? we give these people so much, they get free food, they don't pay any taxes, lake access to phones, bank accounts, everything else done for them, what we put is get a backbone in this country and stop these folks coming over, untilwe country and stop these folks coming over, until we can facilitate the people we've got already and turn those away that are not. they are not coming over here because their persecutor, they are coming over because it is a freebie. they are not immigrants there get migraines. i think it's wrong that we keep taking the men. the other thing is, the r l in was set up to see people's lives in this country and if these are towing people in, and someone else needs a genuine rescuing, what happens then? that sounds callous. _ rescuing, what happens then? that sounds callous. it _ rescuing, what happens then? that sounds callous. it sounds _ rescuing, what happens then? that sounds callous. it sounds so - rescuing, what happens then? that sounds callous. it sounds so true. i sounds callous. it sounds so true. the are sounds callous. it sounds so true. they are just _ sounds callous. it sounds so true. they are just nuking _ sounds callous. it sounds so true. they are just nuking this - sounds callous. it sounds so true. they are just nuking this country i they are just nuking this country because they know they can get away with it, because we are a namby—pamby state. people standing there welcoming these people, i don't see them getting off the coast of come live with me. we had people come overfrom ukraine, and a lot of people did give them homes. what people did give them homes. what about those... _ people did give them homes. what about those... limmy _ people did give them homes. what about those... limmy come - people did give them homes. what about those... limmy come back i people did give them homes. whatl about those... limmy come back on this, let me — about those... limmy come back on this, let me ask _ about those... limmy come back on this, let me ask one _ about those... limmy come back on this, let me ask one question - about those... limmy come back on this, let me ask one question of - this, let me ask one question of greg. all views are respected on this programme because... thought about those who fought so courageously with our forces and supported our forces in courageously with our forces and supported ourforces in afghanistan and come here? they are not all tarred with the same brush. they are not all tarred with the same brush-— they are not all tarred with the same brush. .. �* , ., , same brush. rachel, let's hear these sufi talking- — same brush. rachel, let's hear these sufi talking. greg _ same brush. rachel, let's hear these sufi talking. greg represents - same brush. rachel, let's hear these sufi talking. greg represents what i sufi talking. greg represents what i'm seeing a lot of people saying on the texts. i’d i'm seeing a lot of people saying on the texts. �* , . ., , ., ,, ., the texts. i'd be curious to know how many _ the texts. i'd be curious to know how many people _ the texts. i'd be curious to know how many people are _ the texts. i'd be curious to know how many people are in - the texts. i'd be curious to know how many people are in support| the texts. i'd be curious to know i how many people are in support of the barge — how many people are in support of the barge. do i say? do i see why i the barge. do i 5ay? do i see why i think— the barge. do i say? do i see why i think people are so anti—immigrants? do i think people are so anti—immigrants? do i say— think people are so anti—immigrants? do i say that? the elephant in the room _ do i say that? the elephant in the room is _ do i say that? the elephant in the room is that people who are likely to be _ room is that people who are likely to be on— room is that people who are likely to be on the barge come from different— to be on the barge come from different countries and don't necessarily look like part of the population in this country. is not about looks, _ population in this country. is not about looks, it's _ population in this country. is not about looks, it's about _ population in this country. is not about looks, it's about what - population in this country. is not about looks, it's about what it's| about looks, it's about what it's costing this country each day of taxpayer money. costing this country each day of taxpayer money-— costing this country each day of taxpayer money. sorry to interrupt but if ou taxpayer money. sorry to interrupt but if you actually _ taxpayer money. sorry to interrupt but if you actually want _ taxpayer money. sorry to interrupt but if you actually want to - taxpayer money. sorry to interrupt but if you actually want to solve i but if you actually want to solve the immigration process, you want as solve _ the immigration process, you want as solve , ., ., �* the immigration process, you want as solve i. ., �* the immigration process, you want as solve ., �* _ the immigration process, you want as solve _ , solve you won't solve it by 'ust eievin solve you won't solve it by 'ust giving inee fl solve you won't solve it by 'ust giving into them i solve you won't solve it by 'ust giving into them and i solve you won't solve it byjust giving into them and saying i solve you won't solve it byjust| giving into them and saying we solve you won't solve it byjust - giving into them and saying we will look after you, give you this, your entitled to that. sign look after you, give you this, your entitled to that.— look after you, give you this, your entitled to that. sign actually look at what is happening _ entitled to that. sign actually look at what is happening here - entitled to that. sign actually look at what is happening here miss i at what is happening here miss people fleeing their home countries so we need to look at whether that is a legitimate claim are not and that's what we are not doing. cellar like that we have to have an examination of the facts. i'm sorry we fell out earlier but we can put that behind us, can we? i’m we fell out earlier but we can put that behind us, can we? i'm always ca-able that behind us, can we? i'm always ca able of that behind us, can we? i'm always capable of moving _ that behind us, can we? i'm always capable of moving on. _ that behind us, can we? i'm always capable of moving on. that's - that behind us, can we? i'm always capable of moving on. that's good. j capable of moving on. that's good. you are quick _ capable of moving on. that's good. you are quick sections, _ capable of moving on. that's good. you are quick sections, when - capable of moving on. that's good. you are quick sections, when you i you are quick sections, when you speak to them, they are not racist, are they? but they are concerned? late are they? but they are concerned? we are they? but they are concerned? we are a are they? but they are concerned? - are a very diverse town, a rich history of welcoming refugees to our town, particularly from kosovo, bosnia and we have a rich history of doing that. what was interesting, though, with steve, i did not get an answerfrom him about though, with steve, i did not get an answer from him about the though, with steve, i did not get an answerfrom him about the point though, with steve, i did not get an answer from him about the point of why is it such large numbers of come overfrom albania and why is it such large numbers of come over from albania and unfortunately now we do have that coming down. another example of a safe country, we keep leading examples of afghan generals, by majoring numbers have been coming from albania, india and turkey and we have not had any response to that question from him. in terms of the afghanistan situation, we have had an afghan refugee scheme, we take on many people, some say may not enough —— some may say not enough, but we have a whole variety coming in. in terms of the difference between ukrainians, we in ipswich have been very welcoming, i've met many i have been published meet many the difference there is primarily, some men but probably disproportionate women and children who have come over, and it has nothing to do with the fact that they are white, a lot of talk, that has nothing to do with it. this because they are the most genuine of the genuine refugees, it is absolutely crystal clear that thatis is absolutely crystal clear that that is the case, and if there is a sensitive, you're in the proper way and in an ordered way, not broken in relation to come here, they're welcome, but it if they break immigration law and there is a? 0ver immigration law and there is a? over the sincerity of the claims then there is a different view, that's a difference between the ukrainian refugees and what we consume small boats. i,et refugees and what we consume small boats. ,., , refugees and what we consume small boats. _ ., , .,, refugees and what we consume small boats. _ ., , ., , ., boats. let me say to people that television viewers _ boats. let me say to people that television viewers are _ boats. let me say to people that television viewers are living - boats. let me say to people that television viewers are living as i boats. let me say to people that television viewers are living as a | television viewers are living as a technical, bbc news, we will be continuing this discussion, we didn't know we were going to be, but we have had such a mammoth response to this and we heard about the elephant in the room, that is the man within the room, and we are going to carry on because there is loads of calls and those of you want to say loads of things on all sides of the argument. get in touch. thank you for all the fascinating calls. i gave you the number and the text, but let me give you the basis of our discussion this morning. the barge of dorset, your reaction to the barge. clearly the barge is about and it's a whole approach. live from london, this is bbc news. 15 asylum seekers spend their first night on board a barge off the south coast of england as 20 others refused to board. a last goodbye to sinead o'connor as fans gather ahead of her private funeral. the funeral procession will pass by the funeral procession will pass by the singer's former home here in bray in county wicklow behind me soon. i'll have the latest shortly. the company zoom, that became synonym with remote work during the pandemic, orders staff back to the office. hello, i'm frankie mccalmley. 15 asylum seekers have spent theirfirst night on the government's controversial accommodation barge, after a series of delays over safety concerns. ministers want to move hundreds more onto the bibby stockholm,