to its culture? andriy khlyvnyuk, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me here. good day, sir. it's a pleasure to have you here. i'm very mindful that you've just made a pretty extraordinary journey, serving on the front line in ukraine with the security forces just a couple of days ago, and then, a long journey to here in london. in a couple of days, you will be making music in front of tens of thousands of people at chelsea football stadium. all of that sounds kind of surreal. does it feel that way to you? this is one kind of contrast. three days ago, me and, actually, my partner — who is here as a shooting cameraman — we were under artillery fire in kherson and then, a trip by bus, sleep on a bus last night, and then, a flight here, and here i am. this is quite a contrast, believe me. and i'm very, very glad and happy to observe people living a peaceful life and having peace problems, chatting in cafes and having, i don't know, everything — even those trafficjams is fun. is there any sense of guilt when you leave? because, you know, you've been serving for the best part of1.5 years. you've taken breaks, you've taken boombox — your very well—known and successful band — you've taken them on tour a few times outside of ukraine... three times. ..to western europe, even the united states. when you leave, is there any sense of guilt? yeah, you feel guilty. you tell yourself that this is very important work, that you're going to collect some donations maybe, you will inform, you will bring the news, you know, to tell people around the world about what's going on and what help do we need. but you feel guilty because you leave your equipages over there, and you are very, very worried about them, so because they miss one or two — they miss you, actually. so, if you are a small team, even a small team, as well i do, i have a small squad of drone, er, fighting drones... you're a drone operator? yeah, i'm a drone operator. so, i know they're going to miss the pilot, so they will do another work, maybe more dangerous, maybe less, i don't know, but... well, you know, you want to return as fast as it's possible to. we'll talk more about what it's like on the front line in a moment, but ijust want to take you back to february 24th, 2022. you were in ukraine — you were preparing, actually, for a major international tour at the time. russian tanks rolled across the border — it was putin's all—out invasion. did you, at any point, feel you had a choice about whether to sign up and serve, don that uniform, and become a soldier? our kids were in the fire. my ex—wife, my small kids, my mum. i had no — it was not about the choice. i'm a grown—up, mighty man, 40—plus and there's some people who need my help because they're under fire. their houses are about to be destroyed. and unfortunately, people are going to be, you know, robbed, and some raped, so, you have to — you don't think a lot about that, you just, you know, you're going to go and defend, because it happens in your home. imagine — i think you'd do the same. you have no choice, actually. i guess nobody truly knows what they'd do till it happens to them. yeah. but i'm just wondering whether you saw yourself as a politicised artist, musician, performer long before february 2022. was politics a part of your make—up? no, it was not. i was an activist. even here in london, in 2000 — 2015, when i met my good friends from belarus free theatre and then, david gilmourfrom pink floyd, and they helped me bring some voices of political prisoners... yeah, you'd been active working — publicising the cases of a number of different political prisoners inside russia. yeah, yeah, yeah. but it was not — i was not a part of a political movement, never. but what you had done — and this is very noticeable in your career — you had, as a group, boombox, you had made a big decision in 2014, after putin launched his first military operations — which, of course, involved the ultimate annexation of crimea, russian operations in the donbas as well — after that, you said — despite the fact your band was huge in russia — you said, "no more touring in russia. "we're not going there again." yeah. because they said... first, it was an invasion. crimea was a part of ukraine, as was my home, cherkasy. it doesn't matter. you know, donbas or kyiv, or lviv — it doesn't matter. and the second one, people were killed. russians say they didn't kill no—one, that it was a peaceful occupation — no, they did. so, they are international criminals with weapons. the first day, they shot a ukrainian. the first — the name of the first casualty was genya. his name was genya, and he was serving in the ukrainian army. he was on the height, doing hisjob in a military camp, and he was killed. after that happened, we all understood it's going to be — it is a war. but in 2014, other ukrainian artists took different decisions, i mean, because — partly, it's about money. yeah. i mean, your biggest audience was in russia. yes. i believe something like three—quarters of your sales, music sales, record sales, were in russia. and there were other bands in similar situations who continued to play in russia. what did you make of them? did you judge them? no, i don't care. the — the — you know, when you do something, you have — you know, sooner or later, you'll face the consequences. so, if you think about — if you — if you have a choice... it's not about being judged or tojudge someone. it's about the... every day, you wake up and you see yourself in the mirror or you go to bed in the evening and there's nobody there, no—one tojudge except you, and you are the biggest judge of yourself. so, is it — would it be comfortable for you to be with you all alone? yeah. and it's not about money. who cares about the silky sheets on your bed or a simpler one? you will not be able to answer your kids�* question, "what did you do when that happened?" and they will ask it, they will ask it, obligatory, after they grow up. let's talk about your view of russia because you're in a fascinating position, as i say, as an artist, as a performer. russia was really important to you, and indeed, you sang songs in the russian language. yeah. you really connected with your audience. you had a huge number of fans in russia... yeah, thousands of fans. and i'm sure you loved the fact that you had thousands of fans in russia. it was not about loving the fact of selling — it was my... it was the work of my life. but my point is that you had this ability to connect with russians on a cultural, artistic level. yeah. it was a great connection. so, i wonder what's going through your mind now? because, you know, it may be that on the front line, some of the young men who you are looking at on your screen with your drone operations, they may be big fans of boombox. yeah. they may know all the lyrics to your songs. they may do. and i'm very... it's — i feel very pity for them because it didn't work. on their... what do you mean, "it didn't work"? what didn't work? most of them — 0k, some of them — danced on their school, the last evening at school — how do you — what is the english for this? you know, the evening when you... well, you have the prom night, you have the last dance, all of that. yeah, yeah. and you think they were sometimes listening to your music? of course, because it was top, like, top 100 songs. and they didn't understand that you don't want to go there to fight the guy because he did nothing wrong, because we did nothing wrong to them. and they came to our land and started killing and destroying homes, and kidnapping. do you — it's a hard word to use — but do you now feel a hate, a hatred for these young men who are...? no, i don't feel hate. no, i don't feel hate, no, no, no. it's disgusting, but... ..maybe a pity or... no. i'm just wondering, when you have been an artist, your tools are your voice, your guitar. mmm. are you finding it possible to kill people? i'm not killing any people. i'm not doing killings. i have to eliminate international criminals out of my mum's garden. i have to push them back to where they came from. but the surveillance drone operations you're conducting are, of course... it's not about killings. i don't want to kill anyone. they canjust simply take their stuff and go back, if they want to. there are also russians who i know have reached out to you and talked about their — what they've described as "shame" at what's been done in their name by the russian military and the russian government. how do you respond to that? ifeel pity for them. they've lost their own motherland. they became somehow, just for telling the truth, they became the... sighs. ..i don't know. ..out of the law over there. you couldn't tell — you couldn't call that the law. terrorists and maniac... society says to all those people who are voting for peace that they are illegal. maybe that's the best thing for them to do. do you sing any songs in russian anymore? no. no, i don't. can you imagine ever again using russian? after war, maybe in some years. but i've seen terrible terror. i was a witness of terrible things when we — when we de—occupied the occupied territories, and i've seen things that as long as this war lasts, i cannot imagine me singing my own russian songs. you were in bucha? yeah, in bucha, in irpin and then, on the east, eastern front and now, for a year, i am on the southern front and i've seen what they did to the kherson region because i'm in kherson right now, so... given what you've just told me, i'm just kind of struggling to think how, sometimes, you go onstage in front of that sea of faces and sing the rock songs that you have to sing, because that's what your fans expect. no, i don't have to sing any songs. the rap music is — rock and roll is freedom, for the first and then, all the rest, you are free to do whatever you want and your audience is free to observe it, to be a part of it or go home, it's ok. i'm not forced to sing some, i don't know, material i don't want to — neither is any musician, i think. we have seen, in russia, a real split, you know, there have been some artists — and i'm thinking particularly of singers, your particular, sort of, part of the arts — some singers like alla pugacheva, very famous russian female singer — one of the most famous — who made clear her opposition to the war. we've seen others — and i think his name is nikolay rastorguev, one of the big russian singers — who takes pride in appearing at putin's rallies and being a cheerleader for the war. do you feel there's a danger that you could be used by the ukrainian government as that kind of cheerleader, a rouser of patriotic feelings? see, this is the difference. when we are fighting for common rights and the right of a life being common for all the normal world, it's not only about existing of the ukrainian nation and ukrainian culture. it's about sharing the same values of international law that are welcomed in europe, or in this continent, or in this world. we all want to be in peace. and from one hand, from the other hand, the cheerleaders of dictatorship and destroying and conquering, i think there's a huge difference between that. and i didn't take part — and i won't take part, i think, in any electoral, you know... you've never felt you're being used? no, i didn't. no, no. even now, i'm not a part of any political movement or political party. i'm just a private in a war police. that's it. i tell you what i want to do right now, andriy, i want us both to look at a really interesting piece of video. it's something that was filmed just three days after the all—out russian invasion was launched on february 2a — and it is you, in uniform, choosing to go into one of kyiv�*s central squares and, without any accompaniment, just sing a simple, historic folk song... yeah. ..that many ukrainians regard as one of their most beautiful songs. let's watch the video, and then, we can talk about it. # 0y u luzi chervona kalyna # pochylylasya # chohos�* nasha slavna ukrayina # zazu rylasya # a my tuyu chervonu kalynu pidiymemo # a my nashu slavnu ukrayinu # hey, hey, rozveselymo! that's a pretty extraordinary image. it's a silent city — because, of course, the war had broken out, people were staying in their hiding places, in their bunkers. you're on the street, you're carrying your weapon, your dark glasses, and you're singing a very traditional song. it went viral. millions and millions of people have watched that. one of them was the founder of pink floyd, dave gilmour... yeah. ..who was so touched by it, he incorporated your vocal... mm—hmm. ..into a pink floyd new release. yeah. in fact, their first new release for many years. since 1994. what did that make you feel? i was injured, i was in the hospital, and he gave me a call and said, "hey, andriy. "would you mind if i use your vocals "in a release of a pink floyd?" and i was like, "are you kidding me, sir? would i mind?" it's a dream of every musician in the world, actually, a young one, or, i don't know. "you're a legend! of course i will. "of course." and that brought accept of a huge effort. i mean, the moral one. all the money from the release was directed by sir david and his crew to a charity in ukraine. and that's true because i know it — i have many, many things from different charity organisations in ukraine. they called me, i know some of them, i know. and they call me and say, "please tell all english people who have listened to the song, "all the people all over the world "who've donated using the song, "playing it on youtube and different things, "that we are very glad and grateful." and they say, "always say thank you to sir david "and everyone you meet who is involved in that, "because it helps, it saves lives." it's funny because... it was 500,000... yeah, it has had a huge impact, and i noticed, ijust looked on the internet, it's also raised hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars for ukraine. yeah. but it's also made me think, do you think that in war, art has to have some sort of utility, like using it for fundraising purposes? is there really room in ukraine today, in wartime, when it is an increasingly militarised society, is there room for art for art's sake, music for music's sake? there is always room for art. it is a... it is a part of our life as crucial as food, sleep. the main task in this struggle is not to find yourself similar to your enemy. and if you skip art, if you skip kindness, skip help, you will find yourselfjust, you know, the same invader or same fighter, just trying to survive. but does it change your art? you know, do you feel now a need to be, sort of, more patriotic, to focus maybe your songwriting on the struggle, the war? no. no, i don't. not at all? not at all. you don't have to point your thoughts into, "let's write songs about winning, struggling" — no, it's not the art. it is a conductor. so, you don't have to do it if you don't want to. if you feel that way, of course, you are able to do it, no problem. before we end, because we don't have much time... 0k. ..i just want to ask you, as somebody who has a huge young fan base in ukraine, who knows young ukrainians very well, do you worry about the morale of ukrainians today? you know, that video was taken on february 27, 2022. 18 months later, ukraine has suffered the loss of so many civilians and soldiers, so many millions displaced, young people, perhaps beginning to think, "what is my future?" do you worry about their morale? i'm worried about your singers that will have to learn the things i've learned. now i'm closer than seven miles away, in ukraine, i'm here with you and you guys watching me on your tv. i'm very worried that you don't see your neighbour, close neighbour in me, if you don't. because if you do, give me all the weapons you would give to your boys to protect you from the evil. and if you won't give it to me, then your sons and your brothers, and your singers and your writers will become machine gunners and drone pilots like i did. consider this. and morale is only one. the only task of a normal defence part, as a soldier, is to defend women and kids no matter what nations they are of. but andriy, it's easy for me to say because i'm not where you are, i'm in london. but looking from the outside, putin appears to be determined to fight this war as long as it takes for him to achieve what he would call a victory. russia has the scale, the size, the men, the weaponry that ukraine cannot match in pure numbers. mm—hmm. if we all agree this guy is a war criminal, then we have to take him dead or alive. and that's going to be the end of this war. it's easy. well, we have to end there. chuckles but andriy khlyvnyuk, it's great to see you in london. thank you, sir, thank you for having me. and, after a long journey, thank you for coming in to the hardtalk studio. hello there. consistently dry, warm summer weather has been hard to come by over recent weeks, is a change on the way through the next few days. it will turn drier and warmer but perhaps not for all that long. let me show you what is going on. we have one quite potent area of low pressure swirling over northern europe, bringing very heavy rain and strong winds, heading close enough to settle and to bring some quite brisk wins. a weaker weather system further south reading a lot of cloud, mist and merc and some splashes of rain into parts of wales, central and southern parts of england. for much of northern england, northern ireland and scotland, some showers in the northeast of scotland where it will turn windy particular for shetland, just the wind here, 50 miles an hour or a more the afternoon. more generally, 17 to 20 degrees, just below the average for the time of year. tuesday night, clearskies for the time of year. tuesday night, clear skies across many parts of the uk, it will turn quite cool and fresh, quite chilly also but towards the west, more cloud, mist and merc rolling in and temperatures in plymouth is 14 degrees. increasingly humid air spreading behind this weekend warm front here. that will continue to bring some areas of cloud and perhaps some splashes of rain northwards at ease with as we head through the day on wednesday. expect some mist and fog around some of the coast and over the hills. but there will be spells of sunshine as well, the best of the sunshine across northern and eastern parts, still windy and very cold across shetland. elsewhere, though, starting to turnjust elsewhere, though, starting to turn just a little bit warmer. thursday is set to be the warmest day of all for the majority. this southerly wind bringing that warm air northwards across just about all parts of the uk. with that, still some areas of cloud, mist and fog around through thursday morning as well but some spells of sunshine. in the far northeast, still that quite brisk wind coming down, it will struggle. elsewhere, temperatures widely into the 20s, maybe 2627 degrees across parts of southeast england. the warmth and humidity will be short lived because as we get into friday this frontal system, this cold front will push its way eastwards. that could ring heavy and possibly hungary rain behind it. and exercise spells and showers but the winds are coming back in of the winds are coming back in of the atlantic from the west or the atlantic from the west or the south. it will start to feel cooler again. 20 degrees for glasgow, belfast, cardiff and plymouth. 25 across eastern england. into the weekend, high pressure to the south where you are closest to the area of high pressure in southern parts, a fair amount of pressure in southern parts, a fairamount of dry pressure in southern parts, a fair amount of dry weather. further north and west, low pressure rolling back in and that will generate some quite heavy showers, maybe some longer spells of rain at times. in the north and west, expect quite a few showers through the weekend. certainly a cooler, fresher field. weekend. certainly a cooler, fresherfield. further weekend. certainly a cooler, fresher field. further south and east, not as many showers, more dry weather, some spells of sunshine and temperatures of 20 or 21 degrees. next week, it looks like low pressure will dominate the scene and that will bring some outbreaks of rain at times. for the most part, temperatures will be at or below the average for the time of year. a brief warm speu time of year. a brief warm spell this week, but it may not last all that long. live from london, this is bbc news. at least five people have been killed in a russian missile attack on residential buildings in the eastern ukrainian town of pokrovsk. a senior us official meets with coup leaders in niger — as the political chaos grows on the ground. and a last goodbye to sinead o'connor as fans gather in county wicklow ahead of her private funeral. hello. a very warm welcome to the programme. i'm sally bundock. we begin in ukraine, where at least five people have been killed in a russian missile attack on residential buildings in the eastern ukrainian town of pokrovsk. ukraine's interior minister reported that the strikes also injured at least 31 people.

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