it is described in the indictment, fuelled by lies. lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the us government, the nation's process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election. the men and women of law enforcement who defended the us capital onjanuary the 6th are heroes. they are patriots and the very best of us. they did notjust defend a building, or the people sheltering in it — they put their lives on the line to defend who we are as a country and as a people. they defended the very institutions and principles that defined the united states. since the attack on our capital the department ofjustice has remained committed to ensuring accountability for those criminally responsible for what happened that day. this case is brought consistent with that commitment. our investigation of other individuals continues. in this case, my office will seek a speedy trial so that our evidence can be tested in court and judged by a jury of citizens. in the meantime, i must emphasise that the indictment is only an allegation and that the defendant must be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. i would like to thank the members of the federal bureau of investigation who are working on this investigation with my office as well as the many career prosecutors and law enforcement agents from around the country who have worked on previous january the 6th investigations. these women and men are publics of servants of the highest order and it is a privilege to work alongside them. thank you. that was special counsel, jack smith a short while ago speaking in washington, dc officially announcing that indictment handed down by a grand jury today. former president trump indicted on four counts we have been speaking with a pain ultimately spring the bakken. stephanie rawlings blake, former mayor of baltimore, democratic strategist, former deputy attorney general, also alan lichtman, presidential historian. and our correspondent nomia iqbal who's been following all of the latest from outside the courthouse in dc. let's start with you nomia iqbal, for the view isjoining us now and wanting to know what happened. take us through what took place this afternoon as we learned of this afternoon as we learned of this indictment. we were waiting for a potential indictment to come down and it had been a lot of speculation for some time, ever since donald trump a couple of weeks ago said he received a target letter which typically you get when you are being targeted in an investigation, when it is wrapping up, he was once asked to give evidence or grandeur which he declined so we knew something was coming and it was confirmed a few hours ago that donald trump has been charged, four charges, three of which are counts to conspiracy, to defraud the us, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding conspiracy against rights this is the biggest case against donald trump in the department ofjustice in relation to his behaviour on the day that he refused to accept election results, to refuse to accept that he lost to what happens on that he lost to what happens on that day on the capital, not just the rights and the role that he played in it but the events leading up to it. he is being accused of trying to, and the indictment there is lot of words such as lies, dishonesty, deceit, false claims, disenfranchising millions of voters in that he did this all knowingly. so let's not mince words here at all. this is the most serious case against a former president yet. one that could be a future president as well. of course we know that he's a clear front burner for the republican presidential nomination, but this is the third indictment coming off of the back of the one in new york, the one in florida and he could potentially be facing a fourth indictment in georgia which is also related to this in some ways, to do with claims of him trying to commit fraud, overturned election results. donald trump, to let you know, has reacted. we have been hearing from him quite a bit today. he spoke briefly to abc news saying, the charges brought by special counsel, jack smith are a pylon and saying that these indictments against him are particular us and we have seen many republicans come out and support him. one person that has not though is wheel herd, a former texas congressman, running for the nomination and he has said, i will quote him that donald trump is driven by an attempt to stay out of prison and skim his supporters into putting his legal bills. that is the only republican that has criticised donald trump, accra three. some reaction from the democrat party as well because we have not heard from months from him and silent on the previous indictments but senate majority chuck schumer and house minority leader has said that this indictment is the most serious and most consequential thus far. . , , thus far. really interesting, those reactions _ thus far. really interesting, those reactions there. - thus far. really interesting, i those reactions there. robert coming to you, she said that this is the most serious case of the former president does face and you are forward deputy assistant attorney general looking through some time you agree? looking through some time you auree? ~ , ,., , agree? absolutely. the documents _ agree? absolutely. the documents case - agree? absolutely. the documents case in - agree? absolutely. the i documents case in florida agree? absolutely. the - documents case in florida is a serious — documents case in florida is a serious case, but it is not an uncommon_ serious case, but it is not an uncommon case. you see cases all of— uncommon case. you see cases all of the — uncommon case. you see cases all of the time, people pertaining to classified information and sometimes being prosecuted and sometimes not. the hush — prosecuted and sometimes not. the hush money case in new york state, _ the hush money case in new york state, it_ the hush money case in new york state, it really has nothing to do with — state, it really has nothing to do with his duties as president. this is a case that goes to— president. this is a case that goes to the core of american democracy. i think that it is impossible to overstate the importance of this, both historically and in terms of going _ historically and in terms of going forward, how we will function _ going forward, how we will function as a democratic institutions if we cannot have accountability for what happened here. it accountability for what happened here. accountability for what ha ened here. ., ~' happened here. it hurt the work historically _ happened here. it hurt the work historically there, _ happened here. it hurt the work historically there, what - happened here. it hurt the work historically there, what impact i historically there, what impact do you think this does have come historically? i do you think this does have come historically?- do you think this does have come historically? i will tell ou come historically? i will tell you this- — come historically? i will tell you this. this _ come historically? i will tell you this. this is _ come historically? i will tell| you this. this is historically, the — you this. this is historically, the most _ you this. this is historically, the most important - you this. this is historically, the most important federall the most important federal indictment _ the most important federal indictment in— the most important federal indictment in the _ the most important federal indictment in the history. the most important federal indictment in the history ofj indictment in the history of the united _ indictment in the history of the united states. - indictment in the history of the united states. more i the united states. more important _ the united states. more important than - the united states. more important than the - the united states. more - important than the indictments of the — important than the indictments of the watergate _ important than the indictments of the watergate conspirators i of the watergate conspirators or even — of the watergate conspirators or even the _ of the watergate conspirators or even the atomic— of the watergate conspirators or even the atomic bomb, - or even the atomic bomb, because _ or even the atomic bomb, because it _ or even the atomic bomb, because it goes _ or even the atomic bomb, because it goes to - or even the atomic bomb, because it goes to the - or even the atomic bomb, i because it goes to the future of our— because it goes to the future of our democracy. _ because it goes to the future of our democracy. our- because it goes to the future - of our democracy. our democracy has been — of our democracy. our democracy has been robust _ of our democracy. our democracy has been robust since _ of our democracy. our democracy has been robust since the - has been robust since the 1780s _ has been robust since the 1780s if_ has been robust since the 1780s. if trump— has been robust since the 1780s. if trump is - has been robust since the 1780s. if trump is not- has been robust since the i 1780s. if trump is not held accountable _ 1780s. if trump is not held accountable for— 1780s. if trump is not held accountable for his - 1780s. if trump is not heldl accountable for his attempt 1780s. if trump is not held i accountable for his attempt to destroy— accountable for his attempt to destroy that _ accountable for his attempt to destroy that democracy, - accountable for his attempt to destroy that democracy, then| destroy that democracy, then the future _ destroy that democracy, then the future of _ destroy that democracy, then the future of american - the future of american institutions, _ the future of american institutions, american| institutions, american democracy, _ institutions, american democracy, indeed i institutions, american| democracy, indeed our institutions, american— democracy, indeed our freedoms, and freedoms _ democracy, indeed our freedoms, and freedoms of _ democracy, indeed our freedoms, and freedoms of people _ democracy, indeed our freedoms, and freedoms of people around i and freedoms of people around the world — and freedoms of people around the world to _ and freedoms of people around the world to depend _ and freedoms of people around the world to depend upon - the world to depend upon america. _ the world to depend upon america, is— the world to depend upon america, is in— the world to depend upon america, is injeopardy. l the world to depend upon. america, is injeopardy. so there— america, is injeopardy. so there is— america, is injeopardy. so there is far— america, is injeopardy. so there is far more _ america, is injeopardy. so there is far more to- america, is injeopardy. so there is far more to this i america, is injeopardy. so l there is far more to this case than — there is far more to this case than donald _ there is far more to this case than donald trump's - there is far more to this case than donald trump's future. i there is far more to this case i than donald trump's future. it is america's_ than donald trump's future. it is america's future _ than donald trump's future. it is america's future and - than donald trump's future. it is america's future and the - is america's future and the world's— is america's future and the world's future. _ is america's future and the world's future. by - is america's future and the world's future. by the - is america's future and the| world's future. by the way, is america's future and the . world's future. by the way, all of this— world's future. by the way, all of this bluster— world's future. by the way, all of this bluster by— world's future. by the way, all of this bluster by donald - world's future. by the way, alli of this bluster by donald trump about— of this bluster by donald trump about the — of this bluster by donald trump about the weaponisation - of this bluster by donald trump about the weaponisation of- about the weaponisation of justice _ about the weaponisation of justice getting _ about the weaponisation of justice getting out - about the weaponisation of justice getting out to - about the weaponisation of justice getting out to get . about the weaponisation of. justice getting out to get him. but that— justice getting out to get him. but that counts _ justice getting out to get him. but that counts for— justice getting out to get him. but that counts for when - justice getting out to get him. but that counts for when you i but that counts for when you -et but that counts for when you get into _ but that counts for when you get into a _ but that counts for when you get into a court _ but that counts for when you get into a court of— but that counts for when you get into a court of law, - but that counts for when you get into a court of law, it- get into a court of law, it accounts _ get into a court of law, it accounts for _ get into a court of law, it accounts for zero. - get into a court of law, it accounts for zero. it - get into a court of law, it. accounts for zero. it makes absolutely _ accounts for zero. it makes absolutely no _ accounts for zero. it makes absolutely no difference. . accounts for zero. it makes l absolutely no difference. the judge — absolutely no difference. the iudge will— absolutely no difference. the judge will probably _ absolutely no difference. the judge will probably not - absolutely no difference. the judge will probably not evenl judge will probably not even allow— judge will probably not even allow those _ judge will probably not even allow those arguments - judge will probably not even allow those arguments willi judge will probably not even - allow those arguments will stop by the _ allow those arguments will stop by the way, _ allow those arguments will stop by the way, people _ allow those arguments will stop by the way, people have - allow those arguments will stop by the way, people have said i allow those arguments will stop j by the way, people have said he -ot by the way, people have said he got a _ by the way, people have said he got a great _ by the way, people have said he got a greatiudge _ by the way, people have said he got a greatjudge for— by the way, people have said he got a great judge for him - by the way, people have said he got a greatjudge for him in- got a greatjudge for him in florida _ got a greatjudge for him in florida. maybe _ got a greatjudge for him in florida. maybe he - got a greatjudge for him in florida. maybe he got - got a greatjudge for him in florida. maybe he got his. florida. maybe he got his nightmare _ florida. maybe he got his nightmare judge - florida. maybe he got his nightmare judge here - florida. maybe he got his nightmare judge here in. florida. maybe he got his. nightmare judge here in dc. florida. maybe he got his- nightmare judge here in dc. a black— nightmare judge here in dc. a black woman _ nightmare judge here in dc. a black womanjudge, _ nightmarejudge here in dc. a| black womanjudge, appointed nightmare judge here in dc. a . black womanjudge, appointed by president — black womanjudge, appointed by president obama _ black womanjudge, appointed by president obama who _ black womanjudge, appointed by president obama who gave - black womanjudge, appointed by president obama who gave out. president obama who gave out some _ president obama who gave out some of— president obama who gave out some of the _ president obama who gave out some of the toughest - president obama who gave outl some of the toughest sentences to the _ some of the toughest sentences to the gate, _ some of the toughest sentences to the gate, those _ some of the toughest sentences to the gate, those convicted - some of the toughest sentences to the gate, those convicted of. to the gate, those convicted of storming — to the gate, those convicted of storming the _ to the gate, those convicted of storming the capital, - to the gate, those convicted of storming the capital, moxila . to the gate, those convicted of storming the capital, moxila a| storming the capital, moxila a upadhyaya. _ storming the capital, moxila a upadhyaya. in— storming the capital, moxila a upadhyaya. in the _ storming the capital, moxila a upadhyaya. in the end - storming the capital, moxila a upadhyaya. in the end trumpl storming the capital, moxila a. upadhyaya. in the end trump can huffand— upadhyaya. in the end trump can huffand he— upadhyaya. in the end trump can huffand he can— upadhyaya. in the end trump can huff and he can puff— upadhyaya. in the end trump can huff and he can puff but - upadhyaya. in the end trump can huff and he can puff but he - huff and he can puff but he cannot blow _ huff and he can puff but he cannot blow the _ huff and he can puff but he| cannot blow the courthouse down~ — cannot blow the courthouse down. . ~ cannot blow the courthouse down. ., ,, i. cannot blow the courthouse down. ., ,, ., , , down. thank you for bringing up that point. _ down. thank you for bringing up that point, something _ down. thank you for bringing up that point, something we - down. thank you for bringing up that point, something we had i that point, something we had not talked about the judge in this case, can donald trump is expected to appear for his arraignment on thursday for the courthouse, coming to you stephanie. we heard there him talking about the historic weight of this indictment. if you look at the actual polls, americans are very divided about whether they want to see the former president tried over january the 6th. many of them, just over half —— under half, saying that they want to see the country move on. it is understandable _ the country move on. it is understandable that - the country move on. it is understandable that we . the country move on. it 3 understandable that we want to see the country move on because of what happened on january the 6th was an embarrassment. so yes, we want to see the country move on, but i do not think we can move on will stop notjust for our sake, can move on will stop notjust for oursake, but can move on will stop notjust for our sake, but for the sake of our standing for our sake, but for the sake of ourstanding in for our sake, but for the sake of our standing in the world. we cannot move on without accountability. when i hear things like this is the weaponisation of the department ofjustice, it is laughable to me. with this to me is karma. throughout the campaign in 2016, all we heard from trump and his rallies was the chance, lock her up, lock her up. he ran on the weaponisation of the legal system and the fact that now he is in the vice grips of that same legal system, to meet is the wackiest form of karma. we keep seeing unprecedented, it is unfortunate, unprecedented and unrealistic in many cases. but it is the reality that we see ourselves in and karma, has said to donald trump that your bill is due. 1 donald trump that your bill is due. ., ., ., ,., donald trump that your bill is due. ., ., ., ., due. i want to get to some of the reactions _ due. i want to get to some of the reactions of— due. i want to get to some of the reactions of streaming i due. i want to get to some of. the reactions of streaming and after this indictment. a senior trump adviser told cbs our news partner here in the us that trump, following the indictments of the follow, quote that is focus defiant and more determined than ever to win and that that the republican presidential campaign ron desantis of the following in a statement, quote, as president i will end the weaponisation of government, replace the fbi director and ensure a single standard ofjustice for director and ensure a single standard of justice for all americans. while i have seen reports, i have not read the indictment. i do though believe we need to enact reforms that americans have the right to remove cases from washington, dc to their home districts. both sides of house of representatives share the reactions as well to the indictment. house speaker kevin mccarthy has said that everyone in america can see what was going to come next. the doj's attempt to distract from the news and attacked the front runner for the purple runnerfor the purple denomination, president truck. we've heard from senate majority leader chuck schumer and democratic leader hakeem jeffries releasing a joint statement saying that the indictment is most serious and consequential so far and we will stand as a stark reminder to generations of americans that no one including a president of the united states is above the law. let's talk again about the former president's charges. to remind viewers hear that charges are conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding obstruction of and attempt to obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights. nomia iqbal, you were talking on some of these reactions that we are seeing on both sides of the aisle in particular this reaction from the former, rather the current florida governor and republican presidential candidate ron desantis will stop interesting that he is well is standing behind the former president and calling this a weaponisation of the department ofjustice. but set in the statement, i have not seen the indictment.- in the statement, i have not seen the indictment. that says a lot. he seen the indictment. that says a lot- he has — seen the indictment. that says a lot. he has not— seen the indictment. that says a lot. he has not seen - seen the indictment. that says a lot. he has not seen the - a lot. he has not seen the indictment, not write the 45 page indictment and the special counsel, jack smith did say that he would urge everyone to read the indictment in full. i am sure he probably needs all republicans as well. but yes, ron desantis said that he has not read it but that he will stop this weaponisation of the department ofjustice, that seems to be there line. for the republican party. ijust want to add a little bit more of what ron desantis said, saying that washington dc is a swamp and it is unfair to have to stand trial before a jury that is reflective of the swamp mentality. what is interesting about ron desantis's tweets is that he is not necessarily criticised donald trump because they will not do that, the republican party. they want to try and get a sliver of his votes, some of his base to vote for them. they do not want to incur his wrath. but also he is not, he is trying to tow that fine line. all republicans have. although some have come straight out to completely criticise the department of justice. i don't know if you saw kevin mccarthy prospects tweak the speaker of the house, his was and do remember the speaker of the house, did criticised donald trump after january the 6th but he has talked about in his statement about hunter biden and the legal problems that hunter biden is facing and keeps it doj giving him a sweetheart deal and how this is all coincidence that they are not going after donald trump and kevin mccarthy says that we have heard him say that this is a two—tier system with the department ofjustice when they goes hard after republicans and soft on democrats. so we are essentially seeing by a lot of republicans is that they are embracing donald trump's argument. donald trump's narratives that the department ofjustice is looking nice. and if people ask why donald trump is still supported, why assist be still supporting him. his line of the republican party, if not most still support him despite this latest indictment. robert, i want to ask you on the allegation from the former president specifically the allocation from the florida governor saying that, donald trump cannot get a fair trial in washington, dc for what you make on that? i in washington, dc for what you make on that?— make on that? i think that donald trump _ make on that? i think that donald trump was - make on that? i think that donald trump was to - make on that? i think that donald trump was to get i make on that? i think that| donald trump was to get a make on that? i think that - donald trump was to get a fair trial in— donald trump was to get a fair trial in a — donald trump was to get a fair trial in a jury— donald trump was to get a fair trial in a jury that _ donald trump was to get a fair trial in a jury that is _ trial in a jury that is consisted _ trial in a jury that is consisted entirely. trial in a jury that isi consisted entirely of trial in a jury that is - consisted entirely of people wearing _ consisted entirely of people wearing red _ consisted entirely of people wearing red hats— consisted entirely of people wearing red hats that - consisted entirely of people wearing red hats that seem| consisted entirely of people - wearing red hats that seem make america _ wearing red hats that seem make america great— wearing red hats that seem make america great again. _ wearing red hats that seem make america great again. the - america great again. the constitution _ america great again. the constitution says- america great again. the constitution says that. america great again. the constitution says that a i america great again. the i constitution says that a trial in a — constitution says that a trial in a criminal— constitution says that a trial in a criminal case _ constitution says that a trial in a criminal case should - constitution says that a trial in a criminal case should be| constitution says that a trial. in a criminal case should be in the district _ in a criminal case should be in the district where _ in a criminal case should be in the district where it _ in a criminal case should be in the district where it was - the district where it was committed, _ the district where it was committed, in- the district where it was committed, in this - the district where it was committed, in this case| the district where it was - committed, in this case that is clearly— committed, in this case that is clearly washington, _ committed, in this case that is clearly washington, dc. - committed, in this case that is clearly washington, dc. we i committed, in this case that is . clearly washington, dc. we have very rigorous _ clearly washington, dc. we have very rigorous procedures - clearly washington, dc. we have very rigorous procedures in - clearly washington, dc. we have very rigorous procedures in a - very rigorous procedures in a criminal_ very rigorous procedures in a criminal case _ very rigorous procedures in a criminal case for— very rigorous procedures in a criminal case for ensuring . very rigorous procedures in a i criminal case for ensuring that a criminal case for ensuring that 6 jury— criminal case for ensuring that 6 jury is — criminal case for ensuring that a jury is composed _ criminal case for ensuring that a jury is composed of- criminal case for ensuring that a jury is composed of people, | a jury is composed of people, whatever— a jury is composed of people, whatever prejudice _ a jury is composed of people, whatever prejudice they mayi whatever prejudice they may have, — whatever prejudice they may have, wiii— whatever prejudice they may have, will put _ whatever prejudice they may have, will put them - whatever prejudice they may have, will put them aside . whatever prejudice they mayl have, will put them aside and decide — have, will put them aside and decide the _ have, will put them aside and decide the case _ have, will put them aside and decide the case based - have, will put them aside and| decide the case based entirely on the — decide the case based entirely on the evidence _ decide the case based entirely on the evidence in _ decide the case based entirely on the evidence in front - decide the case based entirely on the evidence in front of - on the evidence in front of them _ on the evidence in front of them we _ on the evidence in front of them. we have _ on the evidence in front of them. we have had - on the evidence in front ofj them. we have had many, on the evidence in front of - them. we have had many, many high-profile _ them. we have had many, many high—profile cases— them. we have had many, many high—profile cases where - them. we have had many, many high—profile cases where they i high—profile cases where they have — high—profile cases where they have managed _ high—profile cases where they have managed to _ high—profile cases where they have managed to pick- high—profile cases where they. have managed to pick unbiased jurors _ have managed to pick unbiased jurors and _ have managed to pick unbiased jurors and resulting _ have managed to pick unbiased jurors and resulting in - jurors and resulting in convictions, _ jurors and resulting in convictions, some - jurors and resulting in. convictions, some have jurors and resulting in _ convictions, some have resulted in acquittais _ convictions, some have resulted in acquittals. donald _ convictions, some have resulted in acquittals. donald trump's i in acquittals. donald trump's problem _ in acquittals. donald trump's problem is _ in acquittals. donald trump's problem is not _ in acquittals. donald trump's problem is not with - in acquittals. donald trump's problem is not with the - in acquittals. donald trump's problem is not with the jury, | problem is not with the jury, but with— problem is not with the jury, but with the _ problem is not with the jury, but with the evidence. - problem is not with the jury, but with the evidence. ”i'o . but with the evidence. to follow up _ but with the evidence. to follow up on _ but with the evidence. follow up on that, what but with the evidence.- follow up on that, what donald trump is essentially saying here, or what he is alleging here, or what he is alleging here is that, in washington, dc case and also in the indictment he faced in new york, he cannot get a fair trial, but in florida she would face a fun new year —— friendlierjury and friendlierjudge as we know, judge cannon in that case they are. is there anything that actually proves that to be true? he said that there have been plenty of cases where they have been able to select unbiased jurors, regardless of where the trial has taken place. where the trial has taken lace. . . where the trial has taken lace. , , . place. in the sense that i think that _ place. in the sense that i think that is _ place. in the sense that i think that is is _ place. in the sense that i l think that is is undoubtedly true — think that is is undoubtedly true that— think that is is undoubtedly true that he _ think that is is undoubtedly true that he is— think that is is undoubtedly true that he is more - think that is is undoubtedly true that he is more likelyi think that is is undoubtedly. true that he is more likely to find — true that he is more likely to find people _ true that he is more likely to find people who _ true that he is more likely to find people who are - true that he is more likely to. find people who are politically sympathetic _ find people who are politically sympathetic to _ find people who are politically sympathetic to him _ find people who are politically sympathetic to him in - find people who are politically sympathetic to him in floridai sympathetic to him in florida than — sympathetic to him in florida than in — sympathetic to him in florida than in either— sympathetic to him in florida than in either washington, i sympathetic to him in florida| than in either washington, dc or in— than in either washington, dc or in manhattan. _ than in either washington, dc or in manhattan. but - than in either washington, dc or in manhattan. but that - than in either washington, dc or in manhattan. but that is. or in manhattan. but that is not the _ or in manhattan. but that is not the standard. _ or in manhattan. but that is not the standard. because i or in manhattan. but that is| not the standard. because it or in manhattan. but that is. not the standard. because it is 'ust not the standard. because it is just unfair— not the standard. because it is just unfair to _ not the standard. because it is just unfair to have _ not the standard. because it is just unfair to have a _ not the standard. because it is just unfair to have a trial- not the standard. because it is just unfair to have a trial we i just unfair to have a trial we had — just unfair to have a trial we had the _ just unfair to have a trial we had the jury— just unfair to have a trial we had the jury consists - just unfair to have a trial we had the jury consists of- just unfair to have a trial we i had the jury consists of people who are — had the jury consists of people who are favourably _ had the jury consists of people who are favourably disposed . had the jury consists of people | who are favourably disposed to the defendant _ who are favourably disposed to the defendant as _ who are favourably disposed to the defendant as it _ who are favourably disposed to the defendant as it is- who are favourably disposed to the defendant as it is to - who are favourably disposed to the defendant as it is to have l the defendant as it is to have a trial— the defendant as it is to have a trial where _ the defendant as it is to have a trial where people - the defendant as it is to have a trial where people are - the defendant as it is to have i a trial where people are untrue but we — a trial where people are untrue but we disposed _ a trial where people are untrue but we disposed to _ a trial where people are untrue but we disposed to the - but we disposed to the defendant. _ but we disposed to the defendant. the - but we disposed to the defendant. the point l but we disposed to the| defendant. the point is but we disposed to the - defendant. the point is that it is up — defendant. the point is that it is up to— defendant. the point is that it is up to his _ defendant. the point is that it is up to his lawyers _ defendant. the point is that it is up to his lawyers in - defendant. the point is that it is up to his lawyers in the - is up to his lawyers in the prosecution _ is up to his lawyers in the prosecution and - is up to his lawyers in the prosecution and the - is up to his lawyers in the | prosecution and the judge is up to his lawyers in the i prosecution and the judge to select— prosecution and the judge to select an _ prosecution and the judge to select an unbiased _ prosecution and the judge to select an unbiased jury - prosecution and the judge to select an unbiased jury out l prosecution and the judge toi select an unbiased jury out of the jury— select an unbiased jury out of the jury poot _ select an unbiased jury out of the jury pool. the _ select an unbiased jury out of the jury pool. the jury - select an unbiased jury out of the jury pool. the jury pool. the jury pool. the jury pool that — the jury pool. the jury pool that witi— the jury pool. the jury pool that will be _ the jury pool. the jury pool that will be drawn - the jury pool. the jury pool that will be drawn from - that will be drawn from the citizens _ that will be drawn from the citizens in _ that will be drawn from the citizens in the _ that will be drawn from the citizens in the district. - citizens in the district. looking _ citizens in the district. looking at _ citizens in the district. looking at the - citizens in the district. looking at the fact - citizens in the district. | looking at the fact that citizens in the district. - looking at the fact that there are now three indictments in the past four months that the former president is facing, as we know in new york, must be mentioned, and miami comeau sub indictment and now here in washington, dc we are possibly leading a further indictment in the state of georgia. also on efforts to subvert the election results there. allen, coming to you, how difficult is this going to be for the former president to face these trials and also run an election can? it looks like we don't have him with us at the moment. stephanie i will put the question to you. i stephanie i will put the question to you. i think he is atoin to question to you. i think he is going to juggle- _ question to you. i think he is going to juggle. we - question to you. i think he is going to juggle. we have - question to you. i think he is i going to juggle. we have seen going tojuggle. we have seen every— going tojuggle. we have seen every single time that he has been — every single time that he has been caught up in the legal system, _ been caught up in the legal system, he uses it as an opportunity to fund raise. he will continue to do that. the republican party will continue to do— republican party will continue to do that. i think it will be a challenge tojuggle these things. _ a challenge tojuggle these things, but he is raising the money— things, but he is raising the money to— things, but he is raising the money to be able to be a fantasticjuggler and he will fantastic juggler and he will do it— fantastic juggler and he will do it as _ fantasticjuggler and he will do it as long as humanly possible. as i mentioned before, _ possible. as i mentioned before, the weight of this is too much _ before, the weight of this is too much to bear. i think is trest— too much to bear. i think is best case _ too much to bear. i think is best case scenario when facing the serious charges is that he finds— the serious charges is that he finds a — the serious charges is that he finds a way to cut some type of deal— finds a way to cut some type of deal and — finds a way to cut some type of deal and get out from under it. because at some point when you take a _ because at some point when you take a look at all of these cases. _ take a look at all of these cases, the way i was raised, my grandmother used to say, everyone cannot be lying. there has to _ everyone cannot be lying. there has to he — everyone cannot be lying. there has to be something there. and we have — has to be something there. and we have seen what was there and ithink— we have seen what was there and i think he — we have seen what was there and i think he will be held accountable for something. a accountable for something. recurring allegation in the document is that he lied repeatedly about the 20/20 presidential election being raked, that trump created widespread distrust through, pervasive and destabilising lies about election fraud, according to the indictment and prosecutors also allege that he was told numerous times that the allegations were false but he, quote, deliberately disregarded the truth and, nomia iqbal coming to you, it seems this is going to be really where the entire indictment and trial going forward at this point is going to be what it hinges on. it forward at this point is going to be what it hinges on. it is. the department _ to be what it hinges on. it is. the department of— to be what it hinges on. it is. the department ofjustice's l the department ofjustice's case is that donald trump knew what he was doing. as we have been hearing, the challenge for them is trying to prove intent. they have to prove that donald trump knew that he was doing. donald trump is a that he believes, genuinely, that the election was stolen. so they will have to try to improve that. this has been a case in the making for some time. jack smith as we saw with the classified documents case has really been speaking to a lot of people in order to build up a picture. the indictment is very detail, goes into compensation, it has quotes from people, that back a lot of what the department ofjustice is alleging against donald trump. just to let you know, donald trump has reacted again on his social media network site saying, why did not bring this ridiculous case two and half years ago, they wanted it right in the middle of my campaign, that's why. i think the reason probably why they did not bring it then is that they have been investigating. they had to take their time to get evidence at the department ofjustice has been of justice has been investigating ofjustice has been investigating it for some time post jack smith actuallyjoint it for some post jack smith actually joint it for some time postjack it for some time post jack smith it for some time postjack smith actuallyjoined the case in november, 2022. of course, there was a trial in the senate to impeach donald trump over january the 6th, but he was acquitted. nonetheless, as we are seeing, donald trump is claiming that this is part of a political witch hunt against him. another bit of reaction, difficult rob suwanee one of the republican candidates rather than any of the candidates using this against donald trump and leverage it to get ahead of him and didn't brace against the presidential nomination, backing donald trump and calling this banana republic like tactics. fits trump and calling this banana republic like tactics.— republic like tactics. as you are standing _ republic like tactics. as you are standing outside - republic like tactics. as you are standing outside of- republic like tactics. as you are standing outside of thel are standing outside of the courthouse gives an idea what we can expect on thursday as the former president will be summoned to the courthouse for his arraignment. he summoned to the courthouse for his arraignment.— his arraignment. he will be here on thursday _ his arraignment. he will be here on thursday and - his arraignment. he will be here on thursday and he i his arraignment. he will be here on thursday and he of course will have his security detail, he is the former president so he has secret service agents for life. we expect it to be again a media spectacle that is what happened in florida injuly when he was arraigned over the classified documents indictment. it happened in new york, when he was arraigned over allegations he falsified business documents. so we are expecting that to happen here again. of course dc is a very liberal state. there are a lot of people here that are not huge fans of donald trump but there are some donald trump supporters that have come out today, a few of them who back the former president, so we can expect props to see them as well. we do not expect to see donald trump being handcuffed or a mug shot. we talked on that with the last two, whether it would happen, and it did not, it will not likely be happening against courts expecting him to plead not guilty to all charges he is facing. jack smith, special prosecutor, who does not have meaning —— does not have many kind words for it, calling him deranged will also be inside the courthouse on thursday. robert, what you expect on thursday, we heard from nomia iqbal that in past indictments there were questions of what would donald trump be paraded in front of the courthouse, would there be these mugshots, what we would see, what you think we would see coming out on thursday in this dc courthouse?— on thursday in this dc courthouse? . ~ courthouse? first i think there will be arrangements - courthouse? first i think there will be arrangements made i will be arrangements made between _ will be arrangements made between the _ will be arrangements made between the prosecution i will be arrangements made i between the prosecution and will be arrangements made - between the prosecution and the defence — between the prosecution and the defence to— between the prosecution and the defence to manage _ between the prosecution and the defence to manage to _ between the prosecution and the defence to manage to get - between the prosecution and the defence to manage to get trumpj defence to manage to get trump into the — defence to manage to get trump into the courthouse _ into the courthouse conveniently- into the courthouse conveniently and i into the courthouse i conveniently and out into the courthouse - conveniently and out of the into the courthouse _ conveniently and out of the way of a large — conveniently and out of the way of a large crowd, _ conveniently and out of the way of a large crowd, i— conveniently and out of the way of a large crowd, i suspect - of a large crowd, i suspect there witt— of a large crowd, i suspect there will be _ of a large crowd, i suspect there will be a _ of a large crowd, i suspect there will be a security - of a large crowd, i suspect l there will be a security court 0nset — there will be a security court 0nset set _ there will be a security court 0nset set up _ there will be a security court onset set up so _ there will be a security court onset set up so the - there will be a security court onset set up so the crowds. there will be a security court i onset set up so the crowds will be onset set up so the crowds will he kept — onset set up so the crowds will he kept a — onset set up so the crowds will be kept a considerable - onset set up so the crowds willj be kept a considerable distance from _ be kept a considerable distance from the — be kept a considerable distance from the courtroom. _ be kept a considerable distance from the courtroom. inside - be kept a considerable distance from the courtroom. inside the| from the courtroom. inside the courtroom _ from the courtroom. inside the courtroom i_ from the courtroom. inside the courtroom i think— from the courtroom. inside the courtroom i think it _ from the courtroom. inside the courtroom i think it will - from the courtroom. inside the courtroom i think it will be - from the courtroom. inside the courtroom i think it will be at l courtroom i think it will be at her etite _ courtroom i think it will be at her elite brief— courtroom i think it will be at her elite brief proceeding. i courtroom i think it will be at| her elite brief proceeding. he will ptead _ her elite brief proceeding. he will plead not _ her elite brief proceeding. he will plead not guilty, - her elite brief proceeding. he will plead not guilty, the - will plead not guilty, the government— will plead not guilty, the government and - will plead not guilty, thej government and defence will plead not guilty, the - government and defence will probably— government and defence will probably agree _ government and defence will probably agree on _ government and defence will probably agree on conditions government and defence will. probably agree on conditions of bill, probably agree on conditions of hilt, similar— probably agree on conditions of bill, similar to _ probably agree on conditions of bill, similar to those _ probably agree on conditions of bill, similar to those that - bill, similar to those that were _ bill, similar to those that were set— bill, similar to those that were set in— bill, similar to those that were set in the _ bill, similar to those that were set in the florida i bill, similar to those that. were set in the florida case. there — were set in the florida case. there witt— were set in the florida case. there will be _ were set in the florida case. there will be a _ were set in the florida case. there will be a tentative - were set in the florida case. | there will be a tentative date set for — there will be a tentative date set for a _ there will be a tentative date set for a trial, _ there will be a tentative date set for a trial, and _ there will be a tentative date set for a trial, and all- set for a trial, and all possibility, _ set for a trial, and all possibility, or- set for a trial, and all possibility, or at - set for a trial, and all- possibility, or at minimum scheduted _ possibility, or at minimum scheduled for— possibility, or at minimum scheduled for pretrial- possibility, or at minimum - scheduled for pretrial motions and hearing _ scheduled for pretrial motions and hearing. expecting - scheduled for pretrial motions and hearing. expecting a - scheduled for pretrial motions and hearing. expecting a briefj and hearing. expecting a brief proceeding _ and hearing. expecting a brief proceeding if— and hearing. expecting a brief proceeding. if i _ and hearing. expecting a brief proceeding. if i can— and hearing. expecting a brief proceeding. if i can take - and hearing. expecting a brief proceeding. if i can take a - proceeding. if i can take a minute _ proceeding. if i can take a minute to— proceeding. if i can take a minute to go— proceeding. if i can take a minute to go back- proceeding. if i can take a minute to go back to - proceeding. if i can take a - minute to go back to something you've _ minute to go back to something you've read _ minute to go back to something you've read from _ minute to go back to something you've read from the _ minute to go back to something j you've read from the indictment a minute — you've read from the indictment a minute ago _ you've read from the indictment a minute ago. which— you've read from the indictment a minute ago. which i— you've read from the indictment a minute ago. which i think- you've read from the indictment a minute ago. which i think is l a minute ago. which i think is significant. _ a minute ago. which i think is significant, jack— a minute ago. which i think is significant, jack smith - a minute ago. which i think is significant, jack smith use - a minute ago. which i think is significant, jack smith use of| significant, jack smith use of the word, _ significant, jack smith use of the word, deliberately - the word, deliberately disregarded. - the word, deliberately disregarded. because| the word, deliberately - disregarded. because that refers _ disregarded. because that refers to— disregarded. because that refers to a _ disregarded. because that refers to a standard - disregarded. because that refers to a standard in - disregarded. because that refers to a standard in thej disregarded. because that - refers to a standard in the law as nomia _ refers to a standard in the law as nomia iqbal— refers to a standard in the law as nomia iqbal said, - refers to a standard in the law as nomia iqbal said, the - as nomia iqbal said, the government— as nomia iqbal said, the government has- as nomia iqbal said, the government has to - as nomia iqbal said, the| government has to prove as nomia iqbal said, the - government has to prove that trump — government has to prove that trump actuatty _ government has to prove that trump actually knew- government has to prove that trump actually knew that - government has to prove that trump actually knew that he i government has to prove that. trump actually knew that he was saying _ trump actually knew that he was saying was — trump actually knew that he was saying was false. _ trump actually knew that he was saying was false. but _ trump actually knew that he was saying was false. but what - trump actually knew that he was saying was false. but what you l saying was false. but what you can prove _ saying was false. but what you can prove knowledge - saying was false. but what you can prove knowledge by- saying was false. but what you can prove knowledge by a - can prove knowledge by a concept _ can prove knowledge by a concept called _ can prove knowledge by a concept called deliberate | concept called deliberate disregard _ concept called deliberate disregard or— concept called deliberate disregard or willful- concept called deliberate - disregard or willful blindness. that— disregard or willful blindness. that means _ disregard or willful blindness. that means that _ disregard or willful blindness. that means that the - disregard or willful blindness. that means that the way- disregard or willful blindness. that means that the way it. disregard or willful blindness. that means that the way it is| that means that the way it is normally— that means that the way it is normally expressed - that means that the way it is normally expressed in - that means that the way it is normally expressed in the i that means that the way it isl normally expressed in the law is, you — normally expressed in the law is. you cannot _ normally expressed in the law is, you cannot blind _ normally expressed in the law is, you cannot blind your- normally expressed in the law is, you cannot blind your eyesj is, you cannot blind your eyes to what — is, you cannot blind your eyes to what would _ is, you cannot blind your eyes to what would have _ is, you cannot blind your eyes to what would have been - is, you cannot blind your eyes. to what would have been obvious to what would have been obvious to a person — to what would have been obvious to a person of— to what would have been obvious to a person of obvious _ to a person of obvious intelligence. - to a person of obvious intelligence. the - to a person of obvious - intelligence. the standard exampte _ intelligence. the standard e> that — he actually knew the truth. that is _ he actually knew the truth. that is really— he actually knew the truth. that is really important - that is really important analysis there. thank you for making that clear for us. i want to get your take on what we will see on thursday, stephanie, with this arraignment in particular how people see the former president use this for his campaigning. i use this for his campaigning. i think we will see a serious proceeding. what i do not think we witt— proceeding. what i do not think we will see is the amount of backtash— we will see is the amount of backlash that donald trump has been trying to spur up with his supporters. i think for weeks now. — supporters. i think for weeks now, actually months, he has been — now, actually months, he has been talking about how angry his supporters will be at every turn _ his supporters will be at every turn when _ his supporters will be at every turn when he faces legal jeopardy and what we have seen with the — jeopardy and what we have seen with the previous indictments, white — with the previous indictments, while people have not been happy— while people have not been happy about it, there has not been — happy about it, there has not been a — happy about it, there has not been a return of the level of vitriot — been a return of the level of vitriol that we saw on january the 6th _ vitriol that we saw on january the 6th i_ vitriol that we saw on january the 6th. i think people, his supporters, may not be heavy on what _ supporters, may not be heavy on what is _ supporters, may not be heavy on what is going on, but they will not go down that road again. so i do not go down that road again. so i do not — not go down that road again. so i do not anticipate it being another— i do not anticipate it being another crazy situation we have out control supporters running through— out control supporters running through the streets of washington, dc. it through the streets of washington, dc. it will be interesting _ washington, dc. it will be interesting to _ washington, dc. it will be interesting to see - washington, dc. it will be interesting to see if - washington, dc. it will be interesting to see if the i interesting to see if the former president holds a speech to his supporters. after the indictment as he has done and the two previous indictments. nomia iqbal, i understand that we have a statement and from the former vice president, mike pence as well. i don't know if you have received that but i see that he has been saying, quote, today's indictment serves as an important reminder, anyone who puts his or the constitution should never be president of the united states. just one part of the statement there. it goes on to say, further comments there. but what you make of that, nomia iqbal? taste but what you make of that, nomia iqbal?— nomia iqbal? we were all waitin: nomia iqbal? we were all waiting for— nomia iqbal? we were all waiting for the _ nomia iqbal? we were all waiting for the former - nomia iqbal? we were all| waiting for the former vice president cosmic steaming to see exactly how he would react to it, because course the pressure that donald trump allegedly put on mike pence do not carry out his constitutional duty and certify election results as part of the indictment, that was one of the plot that has been looked at, how donald trump and his inner circle allegedly try to pressure mr pentz to stop congress that they can stop we all remember the day. the danger that mike pence was put in when he had those writers shall —— a shouting hang mike pence, hang mike pence stop but he has pivoted tojoe biden. he says he will have more to say after the government's case after the government's case after reviewing the indictment makes the point that the former president is entitled to the presumption of innocence which is correct. but he goes on to pivot to joe is correct. but he goes on to pivot tojoe biden and says that, his candidacy means los —— less attention to paid and he mentions hunter biden again. a statement in which clearly trying to carefully, not criticise donald trump too much, but of course we were expecting to hear from much, but of course we were expecting to hearfrom him much, but of course we were expecting to hear from him at some point. expecting to hear from him at some point-— expecting to hear from him at some point. interesting to dig in that little — some point. interesting to dig in that little further. - some point. interesting to dig in that little further. thank i in that little further. thank you so much, nomia iqbal, in front of the courthouse and also to our panel. stephanie and robert. great to have urinalysis and if you have been watching this like breaking news with our coverage of the former president, donald trump, thank you for watching us here in washington. we are pass it off now to asian business report but we will continue to have updates on all the latest news. thank the us credit rating is downgraded. and his millions continues wedding or the stream summer, we speak to a travel expert on how holiday plans have changed. —— and as millions continue sweating. hello and welcome to asia business report, i am monica miller. the indictment of former us president donald trump is not the only story making news today. ratings agency fitch has downgraded american top credit rating from aaa to aa plus. fitch cited expected physical deterioration over the next three years as well as growing government debt burden. the downgrade also follows a death—dealing agreement injune that saw once agreement injune that saw once a political bryggman ship. —— debt ceiling agreement for stub these are used by investors... the us treasury secretary janet yellen said she disagreed with the move and said it was based on outdated data. the white house has also said the move defies reality and they strongly deserved ruthie decision. cafe giant starbucks has unveiled a quarterly earnings that beat expectations. the worlds largest coffee chain reported revenue of $9.2 billion. that is a jump of revenue of $9.2 billion. that is ajump of 12% revenue of $9.2 billion. that is a jump of 12% from a year ago. the earnings were helped by a consumer recovery in china. and a return to office

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