president and not facing a ramifications politically. as a medium effect, short—term effect and a long—term effect the immediate is he'll raise a lot of money. in intensive of support from his core base. in the short term we will see that it benefits him most likely within the republican primary put up as he is being indicted more and more often which is a bizarre thing to say, what we've seen is it reinforces trump's court message that the government is rigged against him, there's a two—tiered system ofjustice and so forth. all of which i think is false but it reinforces that political argument from trauma. in the long term is of you're an independent voter, somebody who voted for donald trump and 2016 but then voted forjoe biden in 2020 for the especially important in states like arizona and georgia, we see more scepticism about donald trump coming back. benefits him in the short—term, long—term still very real problems with this. that's on the political fight, much less what's happening in courtrooms. in fight, much less what's happening in courtroom-— courtrooms. in extraordinary times in the us. courtrooms. in extraordinary times in the us- the _ courtrooms. in extraordinary times in the us. the textbook _ courtrooms. in extraordinary times in the us. the textbook of - courtrooms. in extraordinary times in the us. the textbook of politicsl in the us. the textbook of politics would say in _ in the us. the textbook of politics would say in indictment _ in the us. the textbook of politics would say in indictment be - in the us. the textbook of politics. would say in indictment be inserted a former_ would say in indictment be inserted a former president with aspiration to stand _ a former president with aspiration to stand again would be the end of a political— to stand again would be the end of a political career. that doesn't apply tojohn _ political career. that doesn't apply tojohn trump's, he defies political career. that doesn't apply to john trump's, he defies the political career. that doesn't apply tojohn trump's, he defies the odds. he still_ tojohn trump's, he defies the odds. he still describes himself as an anti—establishment, somebody who faces a _ anti—establishment, somebody who faces a justice system that's face and simple that you got to think that although this is going to be huge news that could happen in the next few_ huge news that could happen in the next few hours it is also a huge campaigning moment for trump to land those key— campaigning moment for trump to land those key messages again and attract publicity— those key messages again and attract publicity and significant bonds to secure _ publicity and significant bonds to secure himself the republican nomination. his curly miles ahead in polls and _ nomination. his curly miles ahead in polls and raising money for that race was— polls and raising money for that race was that this is going to be welcome — race was that this is going to be welcome publicity is much as it is very bad — welcome publicity is much as it is very bad news for american publics more _ very bad news for american publics more generally. very bad news for american publics more generally-— very bad news for american publics more generally. interesting for that we are going _ more generally. interesting for that we are going to _ more generally. interesting for that we are going to speak _ more generally. interesting for that we are going to speak to _ more generally. interesting for that we are going to speak to larry - we are going to speak to larry sabado. great to have you on. thank you for coming on the programme. talk us through some of the numbers here with regards to donald trump and also joe here with regards to donald trump and alsojoe biden right now. it and alsojoe biden right now. if you're looking at the general election. _ you're looking at the general election, where _ you're looking at the general election, where i— you're looking at the general election, where i think- you're looking at the general election, where i think these indictments— election, where i think these indictments will— election, where i think these indictments will actually - election, where i think these indictments will actually hurt election, where i think these i indictments will actually hurt as opposed — indictments will actually hurt as opposed to _ indictments will actually hurt as opposed to helping _ indictments will actually hurt as opposed to helping trump - indictments will actually hurt as i opposed to helping trump among indictments will actually hurt as - opposed to helping trump among the republican— opposed to helping trump among the republican community, _ opposed to helping trump among the republican community, it's _ opposed to helping trump among the republican community, it's not- republican community, it's not helping — republican community, it's not helping biden— republican community, it's not helping biden as _ republican community, it's not helping biden as much - republican community, it's not helping biden as much as - republican community, it's not helping biden as much as it - republican community, it's not. helping biden as much as it should be, helping biden as much as it should he, at _ helping biden as much as it should he, at least — helping biden as much as it should be, at least not _ helping biden as much as it should be, at least not yet. _ helping biden as much as it should be, at least not yet. there's - helping biden as much as it shouldl be, at least not yet. there's always a daily poll— be, at least not yet. there's always a daily poll but _ be, at least not yet. there's always a daily poll but the _ be, at least not yet. there's always a daily poll but the wand _ be, at least not yet. there's always a daily poll but the wand today- be, at least not yet. there's always a daily poll but the wand today is l a daily poll but the wand today is actually — a daily poll but the wand today is actually the _ a daily poll but the wand today is actually the gold _ a daily poll but the wand today is actually the gold standard - a daily poll but the wand today is i actually the gold standard poll from the new _ actually the gold standard poll from the new york — actually the gold standard poll from the new york times. _ actually the gold standard poll from the new york times. it _ actually the gold standard poll from the new york times. it has - actually the gold standard poll from the new york times. it has biden. actually the gold standard poll from l the new york times. it has biden and trump _ the new york times. it has biden and trump tied _ the new york times. it has biden and trump tied at — the new york times. it has biden and trump tied at 43%. _ the new york times. it has biden and trump tied at 43%. people _ the new york times. it has biden and trump tied at 43%. people find - the new york times. it has biden and trump tied at 43%. people find this . trump tied at 43%. people find this incredible that _ trump tied at 43%. people find this incredible that they— trump tied at 43%. people find this incredible that they could _ trump tied at 43%. people find this incredible that they could be - trump tied at 43%. people find this incredible that they could be tied i incredible that they could be tied considering — incredible that they could be tied considering the _ incredible that they could be tied considering the number- incredible that they could be tied considering the number of- considering the number of indictments— considering the number of indictments we _ considering the number of indictments we already i considering the number of. indictments we already have considering the number of- indictments we already have against donald _ indictments we already have against donald trurno — indictments we already have against donald trump. it's _ indictments we already have against donald trump. it's a _ indictments we already have against donald trump. it's a fact _ indictments we already have against donald trump. it's a fact that - indictments we already have against donald trump. it's a fact that joe i donald trump. it's a fact that joe biden— donald trump. it's a fact that joe biden is— donald trump. it's a fact that joe biden is the _ donald trump. it's a fact that joe biden is the incumbent _ donald trump. it's a fact that joel biden is the incumbent president, donald trump. it's a fact that joe - biden is the incumbent president, he is at 39%_ biden is the incumbent president, he is at 39% approval— biden is the incumbent president, he is at 39% approval in _ biden is the incumbent president, he is at 39% approval in this _ biden is the incumbent president, he is at 39% approval in this pole, - is at 39% approval in this pole, which — is at 39% approval in this pole, which i — is at 39% approval in this pole, which i think— is at 39% approval in this pole, which i think is— is at 39% approval in this pole, which i think is a _ is at 39% approval in this pole, which i think is a little - is at 39% approval in this pole, which i think is a little low- is at 39% approval in this pole, which i think is a little low butl which i think is a little low but in the ballpark _ which i think is a little low but in the ballpark. as— which i think is a little low but in the ballpark. as a _ which i think is a little low but in the ballpark. as a result - which i think is a little low but in the ballpark. as a result trumpl which i think is a little low but inl the ballpark. as a result trump is the ballpark. as a result trump is the nonincumbent. he's- the ballpark. as a result trump is the nonincumbent. he's never- the ballpark. as a result trump is l the nonincumbent. he's never been out of— the nonincumbent. he's never been out of the _ the nonincumbent. he's never been out of the news _ the nonincumbent. he's never been out of the news but _ the nonincumbent. he's never been out of the news but he's _ the nonincumbent. he's never been out of the news but he's not - the nonincumbent. he's never beenj out of the news but he's not making the decisions — out of the news but he's not making the decisions any _ out of the news but he's not making the decisions any more. _ out of the news but he's not making the decisions any more. that - the decisions any more. that probably— the decisions any more. that probably helps the decisions any more. that probably helps him the decisions any more. that probably helps him a the decisions any more. that probably helps him a bed. the decisions any more. that probably helps him a bed. thin-s the decisions any more. that probably helps him a bed. thin-s are probably helps him a bed. things are going _ probably helps him a bed. things are going to _ probably helps him a bed. things are going to change _ probably helps him a bed. things are going to change in _ probably helps him a bed. things are going to change in the _ probably helps him a bed. things are going to change in the next - probably helps him a bed. things are going to change in the next year- probably helps him a bed. things are going to change in the next year and | going to change in the next year and a halt _ going to change in the next year and a half. it's— going to change in the next year and a half. �* , . going to change in the next year and a half. �*, ., ., a half. it's a long time untilthe election- _ a half. it's a long time untilthe election. thank _ a half. it's a long time untilthe election. thank you _ a half. it's a long time untilthe election. thank you for - a half. it's a long time untilthe election. thank you for that - election. thank you for that reminder. that is true. we can get too bogged down in the numbers this far out. looking at that graph, pretty straight forward, 43% versus 43%. who do you think will be happier looking at that? donald trump orjoe biden?— happier looking at that? donald trump orjoe biden? donald trump will because _ trump orjoe biden? donald trump will because it _ trump orjoe biden? donald trump will because it will _ trump orjoe biden? donald trump will because it will help _ trump orjoe biden? donald trump will because it will help them - trump orjoe biden? donald trump will because it will help them raise | will because it will help them raise even more — will because it will help them raise even more money. _ will because it will help them raise even more money. of— will because it will help them raise even more money. of course - will because it will help them raise even more money. of course he i will because it will help them raise - even more money. of course he spent all the _ even more money. of course he spent all the money— even more money. of course he spent all the money he's _ even more money. of course he spent all the money he's raised _ even more money. of course he spent all the money he's raised on _ all the money he's raised on lawyers _ all the money he's raised on lawyers. that _ all the money he's raised on lawyers. thatjust_ all the money he's raised on lawyers. that just came - all the money he's raised on lawyers. thatjust came out| all the money he's raised on - lawyers. that just came out today. 0ut lawyers. that just came out today. out of _ lawyers. that just came out today. out of all — lawyers. that just came out today. out of all of — lawyers. that just came out today. out of all of these _ lawyers. that just came out today. out of all of these court _ lawyers. that just came out today. out of all of these court cases - out of all of these court cases costing — out of all of these court cases costing him. _ 0ut of all of these court cases costing him, most— out of all of these court cases costing him, most people - out of all of these court cases| costing him, most people who out of all of these court cases - costing him, most people who are giving _ costing him, most people who are giving to— costing him, most people who are giving to him_ costing him, most people who are giving to him are _ costing him, most people who are giving to him are actually - costing him, most people who are giving to him are actually giving . costing him, most people who arej giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers — giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers in_ giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers. in the _ giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers. in the long _ giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers. in the long run - giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers. in the long run i - giving to him are actually giving to his lawyers. in the long run i don't know— his lawyers. in the long run i don't know that all — his lawyers. in the long run i don't know that all of _ his lawyers. in the long run i don't know that all of this _ his lawyers. in the long run i don't know that all of this will— his lawyers. in the long run i don't know that all of this will help - his lawyers. in the long run i don't know that all of this will help and i know that all of this will help and it ought— know that all of this will help and it ought to — know that all of this will help and it ought to hurt _ know that all of this will help and it ought to hurt him. _ know that all of this will help and it ought to hurt him. keep - know that all of this will help and it ought to hurt him. keep this. it ought to hurt him. keep this in mind, _ it ought to hurt him. keep this in mind, long— mind, long time from the election but a _ mind, long time from the election but a tie _ mind, long time from the election but a tie raise _ mind, long time from the election but a tie raise or— mind, long time from the election but a tie raise or even _ mind, long time from the election but a tie raise or even biden- mind, long time from the election but a tie raise or even biden up. mind, long time from the election. but a tie raise or even biden up one or two— but a tie raise or even biden up one or two or— but a tie raise or even biden up one or two or three _ but a tie raise or even biden up one or two or three points _ but a tie raise or even biden up one or two or three points means- or two or three points means trump probably— or two or three points means trump probably wins — or two or three points means trump probably wins in_ or two or three points means trump probably wins in the _ or two or three points means trump probably wins in the electoral - probably wins in the electoral college _ probably wins in the electoral college the _ probably wins in the electoral college. the electoral- probably wins in the electoral| college. the electoral college probably wins in the electoral i college. the electoral college is slanted — college. the electoral college is slanted to— college. the electoral college is slanted to the _ college. the electoral college is slanted to the republicans. - college. the electoral college is . slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton _ slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton won— slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton won by— slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton won by 3 _ slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton won by 3 million _ slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton won by 3 million votes - slanted to the republicans. hillary clinton won by 3 million votes butl clinton won by 3 million votes but the popular— clinton won by 3 million votes but the popular vote _ clinton won by 3 million votes but the popular vote does— clinton won by 3 million votes but the popular vote does not- clinton won by 3 million votes but the popular vote does not count. i clinton won by 3 million votes but i the popular vote does not count. joe biden— the popular vote does not count. joe biden won _ the popular vote does not count. joe biden won by— the popular vote does not count. joe biden won by 7,000,020 _ the popular vote does not count. joe biden won by 7,000,020 20 - the popular vote does not count. joe biden won by 7,000,020 20 and - the popular vote does not count. joe biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he| biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came _ biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came within — biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came within a — biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came within a whisker— biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came within a whisker of— biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came within a whisker of losing - biden won by 7,000,020 20 and he came within a whisker of losing in l came within a whisker of losing in the electoral— came within a whisker of losing in the electoral college. _ came within a whisker of losing in the electoral college. that- came within a whisker of losing inj the electoral college. that donald trumps— the electoral college. that donald trurnps real— the electoral college. that donald trumps real advantage _ the electoral college. that donald trumps real advantage for- the electoral college. that donald trumps real advantage for that . the electoral college. that donald trumps real advantage for that if. the electoral college. that donald i trumps real advantage for that if he can keep _ trumps real advantage for that if he can keep the — trumps real advantage for that if he can keep the race _ trumps real advantage for that if he can keep the race close _ trumps real advantage for that if he can keep the race close and - trumps real advantage for that if hej can keep the race close and popular vote terms— can keep the race close and popular vote terms that _ can keep the race close and popular vote terms that he _ can keep the race close and popular vote terms that he may— can keep the race close and popular vote terms that he may well- can keep the race close and popular vote terms that he may well win - can keep the race close and popular| vote terms that he may well win the electoral— vote terms that he may well win the electoral college _ vote terms that he may well win the electoral college again. _ vote terms that he may well win the electoral college again. i— vote terms that he may well win the electoral college again. i will- electoral college again. i will believe — electoral college again. i will believe it— electoral college again. i will believe it when _ electoral college again. i will believe it when i— electoral college again. i will believe it when i see - electoral college again. i will believe it when i see it- electoral college again. i will believe it when i see it but. electoral college again. i will- believe it when i see it but based on the _ believe it when i see it but based on the numbers _ believe it when i see it but based on the numbers today _ believe it when i see it but based on the numbers today that's - believe it when i see it but based| on the numbers today that's what believe it when i see it but based . on the numbers today that's what it would suggest _ on the numbers today that's what it would suggest. he _ on the numbers today that's what it would suggest-— would suggest. he is there any chance of— would suggest. he is there any chance of a _ would suggest. he is there any chance of a change _ would suggest. he is there any chance of a change to - would suggest. he is there any chance of a change to the - would suggest. he is there any - chance of a change to the electoral couege chance of a change to the electoral college system? and just go into a straight popular vote? yes. college system? and just go into a straight popular vote? yes, there's a real chance _ straight popular vote? yes, there's a real chance it's _ straight popular vote? yes, there's a real chance it's already _ straight popular vote? yes, there's a real chance it's already on - straight popular vote? yes, there's a real chance it's already on the - a real chance it's already on the calendar — a real chance it's already on the calendar the _ a real chance it's already on the calendar. the date _ a real chance it's already on the calendar. the date is _ a real chance it's already on the calendar. the date is the - a real chance it's already on the calendar. the date is the 12th . a real chance it's already on the | calendar. the date is the 12th of never _ calendar. the date is the 12th of never. ~ . , calendar. the date is the 12th of never. . , calendar. the date is the 12th of never, ~ , ., never. 0k. was stuck with that s stem, never. 0k. was stuck with that system. that — never. 0k. was stuck with that system, that doesn't _ never. 0k. was stuck with that i system, that doesn't necessarily reap like the public vote but there are any of systems where something similar happens. let's look atjoe biden for a moment. similar happens. let's look atjoe biden fora moment. how similar happens. let's look atjoe biden for a moment. how is his support amongst democrats? it’s support amongst democrats? it's actually improving. he had some serious _ actually improving. he had some serious problems— actually improving. he had some serious problems last _ actually improving. he had some serious problems last year. - actually improving. he had some serious problems last year. the. serious problems last year. the best-known _ serious problems last year. the best—known candidate - serious problems last year. the best—known candidate running. serious problems last year. the - best—known candidate running against him in _ best—known candidate running against him in the _ best—known candidate running against him in the democratic— best—known candidate running against him in the democratic primary, - him in the democratic primary, robert — him in the democratic primary, robert f — him in the democratic primary, robert f kennedy— him in the democratic primary, robert f kennedyjunior- him in the democratic primary, robert f kennedyjunior was i him in the democratic primary, | robert f kennedyjunior was up around — robert f kennedyjunior was up around 20, _ robert f kennedyjunior was up around 20, even _ robert f kennedyjunior was up around 20, even at _ robert f kennedyjunior was up around 20, even at low - robert f kennedyjunior was up around 20, even at low 20s - robert f kennedyjunior was up around 20, even at low 20s in. around 20, even at low 20s in the new hampshire _ around 20, even at low 20s in the new hampshire primary, - around 20, even at low 20s in the new hampshire primary, which. around 20, even at low 20s in the i new hampshire primary, which ones would _ new hampshire primary, which ones would assume — new hampshire primary, which ones would assume would _ new hampshire primary, which ones would assume would be _ new hampshire primary, which ones would assume would be first - new hampshire primary, which ones would assume would be first for- new hampshire primary, which ones would assume would be first for thel would assume would be first for the democrats — would assume would be first for the democrats now _ would assume would be first for the democrats. now he's _ would assume would be first for the democrats. now he's down - would assume would be first for the democrats. now he's down further, j democrats. now he's down further, private _ democrats. now he's down further, private polls— democrats. now he's down further, private polls in_ democrats. now he's down further, private polls in new— democrats. now he's down further, private polls in new hampshire - private polls in new hampshire showing — private polls in new hampshire showing falling _ private polls in new hampshire showing falling into _ private polls in new hampshire showing falling into the - private polls in new hampshire showing falling into the low - private polls in new hampshire . showing falling into the low teens. and nationally— showing falling into the low teens. and nationally he's _ showing falling into the low teens. and nationally he's closer- showing falling into the low teens. and nationally he's closer to - showing falling into the low teens. and nationally he's closer to ten . and nationally he's closer to ten that he — and nationally he's closer to ten that he is— and nationally he's closer to ten that he is to _ and nationally he's closer to ten that he is to 20. _ and nationally he's closer to ten that he is to 20. the _ and nationally he's closer to ten that he is to 20. the fact - and nationally he's closer to ten that he is to 20. the fact that. and nationally he's closer to ten| that he is to 20. the fact that he shows— that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at— that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at all— that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at all is _ that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at all is a _ that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at all is a merit _ that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at all is a merit of- that he is to 20. the fact that he shows at all is a merit of his - that he is to 20. the fact that he i shows at all is a merit of his name, his well-known _ shows at all is a merit of his name, his well—known name _ shows at all is a merit of his name, | his well—known name identification. but also _ his well—known name identification. but also among _ his well—known name identification. but also among the _ his well—known name identification. but also among the fact _ his well—known name identification. but also among the fact that - but also among the fact that democrats. _ but also among the fact that democrats, there _ but also among the fact that democrats, there are - but also among the fact that democrats, there are manyl but also among the fact that. democrats, there are many that but also among the fact that - democrats, there are many that think biden— democrats, there are many that think biden is— democrats, there are many that think biden is too— democrats, there are many that think biden is too old _ democrats, there are many that think biden is too old. he _ democrats, there are many that think biden is too old. he talked _ democrats, there are many that think biden is too old. he talked about - biden is too old. he talked about being _ biden is too old. he talked about being a _ biden is too old. he talked about being a transitional— biden is too old. he talked about being a transitional president, i biden is too old. he talked about . being a transitional president, they interpreted — being a transitional president, they interpreted that _ being a transitional president, they interpreted that transitional - interpreted that transitional president— interpreted that transitional president met _ interpreted that transitional president met a _ interpreted that transitional president met a one - interpreted that transitional president met a one term . interpreted that transitional - president met a one term president. joe biden— president met a one term president. joe biden spent— president met a one term president. joe biden spent his _ president met a one term president. joe biden spent his entire _ president met a one term president. joe biden spent his entire lifetime i joe biden spent his entire lifetime trying _ joe biden spent his entire lifetime trying to— joe biden spent his entire lifetime trying to get — joe biden spent his entire lifetime trying to get into _ joe biden spent his entire lifetime trying to get into the _ joe biden spent his entire lifetime trying to get into the white - joe biden spent his entire lifetimel trying to get into the white house. he is not— trying to get into the white house. he is not inclined _ trying to get into the white house. he is not inclined to _ trying to get into the white house. he is not inclined to give _ trying to get into the white house. he is not inclined to give it- trying to get into the white house. he is not inclined to give it up- he is not inclined to give it up until— he is not inclined to give it up until the — he is not inclined to give it up until the constitution- he is not inclined to give it up until the constitution tells - he is not inclined to give it up| until the constitution tells him he has to— until the constitution tells him he has to leave _ until the constitution tells him he has to leave l— until the constitution tells him he has to leave-— has to leave. i want to bring in doug- what — has to leave. i want to bring in doug. what do _ has to leave. i want to bring in doug. what do you _ has to leave. i want to bring in doug. what do you make - has to leave. i want to bring in doug. what do you make of. has to leave. i want to bring in j doug. what do you make of all has to leave. i want to bring in - doug. what do you make of all those numbers that larry has taken us through? it numbers that larry has taken us throu~h? , ., ., ., through? it tells me a lot more about joe _ through? it tells me a lot more about joe biden _ through? it tells me a lot more about joe biden as _ through? it tells me a lot more about joe biden as weaknessesj through? it tells me a lot more - about joe biden as weaknesses than aboutjoe biden as weaknesses than it does donald trumps strength. when you have a sitting president with good jobs numbers that we see every month, his number should be a lot higher and theyjust have been translated into that for the part of thatis translated into that for the part of that is inflation and the concerns that is inflation and the concerns that we have on this photo a big part is voters who just don't feel they benefited from the job market being strong. it's all tied intojob items weakness. what we see is it does seep down into his view from democrats as well. he suffering a little bit when you look at where his polling is with hispanic voters, certainly the asian african—american voters, his numbers are not where they should be and that's weird we are it reflected in the polls. share are it reflected in the polls. are ou are it reflected in the polls. are you surprised — are it reflected in the polls. are you surprised by the lack of opponents for either candidate? especially when you look at the fact that dissent is not that long ago was riding pretty high. == that dissent is not that long ago was riding pretty high. -- desantis. there's a lot — was riding pretty high. -- desantis. there's a lot of _ was riding pretty high. -- desantis. there's a lot of things _ was riding pretty high. -- desantis. there's a lot of things that - was riding pretty high. -- desantis. there's a lot of things that are - there's a lot of things that are probably surprising but not shocking or vice versa. when we see with goes on with trump with all these indictments, as soon as it happens most of the candidates running against them to some extent rally behind donald trump looked up they will echo his rhetoric of a two—tiered system ofjustice and things like that. in any direct contacts, raise, any other office if your opponent gets indicted you go after them immediately, you sit back and try to shore up some of their argument. essentially what they are hoping for is the situation will take care of itself. in politics hope is not a strategy. ultimately star wars showed us, luke's car work i had to confront darth vader, he didn't sit back away from the forest would do it for him. unfortunately for a lot of republican that's where they are at right now. they're either trying to jockey for second place or stay out of the whole mess altogether. it's good to make this upcoming debate in milwaukee more interesting to see what republican candidate say and don't say. i was not expected _ candidate say and don't say. i was not expected that _ candidate say and don't say. i was not expected that metaphor - candidate say and don't say. i was not expected that metaphor but i'm delighted to have heard it.- delighted to have heard it. because eah, what delighted to have heard it. because yeah. what do _ delighted to have heard it. because yeah. what do you _ delighted to have heard it. because yeah, what do you think— delighted to have heard it. because yeah, what do you think of- delighted to have heard it. because yeah, what do you think of remake | yeah, what do you think of remake joe biden— yeah, what do you think of remake joe biden versus donald trump? i don't _ joe biden versus donald trump? i don't have — joe biden versus donald trump? i don't have a star wars reference but it will— don't have a star wars reference but it will be _ don't have a star wars reference but it will be a _ don't have a star wars reference but it will be a phenomenal raise to witness — it will be a phenomenal raise to witness. particularly from here in the united — witness. particularly from here in the united kingdom where were used to our— the united kingdom where were used to our political candidates a bit younger, the two candidates both in the united _ younger, the two candidates both in the united states are older gentlemen, they that will be a key part of— gentlemen, they that will be a key part of the — gentlemen, they that will be a key part of the race with him who's got the most _ part of the race with him who's got the most energy ending status and who can _ the most energy ending status and who can persuade the voters? i'll be watching with intense interest. can we wra watching with intense interest. cari we wrap things up with what are the kind of numbers you are looking to now in the months ahead? you are right to remind us that we are a long way out for an election but what particularly is interesting you in the weeks and months i had? the thins in the weeks and months i had? the things about biden and john but let me shift— things about biden and john but let me shift to — things about biden and john but let me shift to third _ things about biden and john but let me shift to third parties _ things about biden and john but let me shift to third parties and - me shift to third parties and independents. _ me shift to third parties and independents. there - me shift to third parties and independents. there are - me shift to third parties and| independents. there are two me shift to third parties and - independents. there are two thirds parties _ independents. there are two thirds parties could — independents. there are two thirds parties could really— independents. there are two thirds parties could really do _ independents. there are two thirds parties could really do biden - independents. there are two thirds parties could really do biden n1- independents. there are two thirds parties could really do biden n1 is . parties could really do biden n1 is called _ parties could really do biden n1 is called no — parties could really do biden n1 is called no labels, _ parties could really do biden n1 is called no labels, which— parties could really do biden n1 is called no labels, which is- parties could really do biden n1is| called no labels, which is basically a moderate — called no labels, which is basically a moderate centrist _ called no labels, which is basically a moderate centrist group - called no labels, which is basically a moderate centrist group that. called no labels, which is basically. a moderate centrist group that wants to nominate — a moderate centrist group that wants to nominate in— a moderate centrist group that wants to nominate in alternative _ a moderate centrist group that wants to nominate in alternative to - a moderate centrist group that wants to nominate in alternative to biden. to nominate in alternative to biden and trump — to nominate in alternative to biden and trump if_ to nominate in alternative to biden and trump. if they— to nominate in alternative to biden and trump. if they do _ to nominate in alternative to biden and trump. if they do it _ to nominate in alternative to biden and trump. if they do it will - and trump. if they do it will disproportionately- and trump. if they do it will . disproportionately hurt biden. trump's — disproportionately hurt biden. trump's vote _ disproportionately hurt biden. trump's vote is _ disproportionately hurt biden. trump's vote is going - disproportionately hurt biden. i trump's vote is going nowhere. disproportionately hurt biden. . trump's vote is going nowhere. if you present — trump's vote is going nowhere. if you present in _ trump's vote is going nowhere. if you present in alternative - trump's vote is going nowhere. if you present in alternative it - trump's vote is going nowhere. if you present in alternative it will. you present in alternative it will take _ you present in alternative it will take millions _ you present in alternative it will take millions of _ you present in alternative it will take millions of votes _ you present in alternative it will take millions of votes away - you present in alternative it willi take millions of votes away from you present in alternative it will- take millions of votes away from joe biden _ take millions of votes away from joe biden there — take millions of votes away from joe biden there is— take millions of votes away from joe biden. there is another— take millions of votes away from joe j biden. there is another independent associated _ biden. there is another independent associated with— biden. there is another independent associated with the _ biden. there is another independent associated with the greens, - biden. there is another independent associated with the greens, a - associated with the greens, a liberal— associated with the greens, a liberal black— associated with the greens, a liberal black professor- associated with the greens, aj liberal black professor cornell west — liberal black professor cornell west while _ liberal black professor cornell west. while i— liberal black professor cornell west. while i don't _ liberal black professor cornell west. while i don't think- liberal black professor cornell west. while i don't think he l liberal black professor cornell . west. while i don't think he will -et west. while i don't think he will get a _ west. while i don't think he will get a whole _ west. while i don't think he will get a whole lot _ west. while i don't think he will get a whole lot of— west. while i don't think he will get a whole lot of votes - west. while i don't think he will get a whole lot of votes he - west. while i don't think he will get a whole lot of votes he willl west. while i don't think he will. get a whole lot of votes he will get enough _ get a whole lot of votes he will get enough to — get a whole lot of votes he will get enough to tip— get a whole lot of votes he will get enough to tip some _ get a whole lot of votes he will get enough to tip some close - get a whole lot of votes he will get enough to tip some close states i get a whole lot of votes he will get i enough to tip some close states away from biden allowing _ enough to tip some close states away from biden allowing trump _ enough to tip some close states away from biden allowing trump to - enough to tip some close states away from biden allowing trump to win - from biden allowing trump to win with a _ from biden allowing trump to win with a plurality _ from biden allowing trump to win with a plurality. that's _ from biden allowing trump to win with a plurality. that's how- from biden allowing trump to win| with a plurality. that's how trump -ot with a plurality. that's how trump got in _ with a plurality. that's how trump got in in _ with a plurality. that's how trump got in in 2016 _ with a plurality. that's how trump got in in 2016. he _ with a plurality. that's how trump got in in 2016. he got— with a plurality. that's how trump got in in 2016. he got 46% - with a plurality. that's how trump got in in 2016. he got 46% of- with a plurality. that's how trump got in in 2016. he got 46% of the| got in in 2016. he got 46% of the vote overall. _ got in in 2016. he got 46% of the vote overall, a _ got in in 2016. he got 46% of the vote overall, a 47 _ got in in 2016. he got 46% of the vote overall, a 47 as _ got in in 2016. he got 46% of the vote overall, a 47 as an - got in in 2016. he got 46% of the | vote overall, a 47 as an incumbent in 2020 and — vote overall, a 47 as an incumbent in 2020 and more than _ vote overall, a 47 as an incumbent in 2020 and more than anything. vote overall, a 47 as an incumbent in 2020 and more than anything it| in 2020 and more than anything it was whether— in 2020 and more than anything it was whether people _ in 2020 and more than anything it was whether people had - in 2020 and more than anything it was whether people had in - was whether people had in alternative _ was whether people had in alternative and _ was whether people had in alternative and voted - was whether people had in alternative and voted for. was whether people had in i alternative and voted for third parties — alternative and voted for third parties. they— alternative and voted for third parties. they did _ alternative and voted for third parties. they did in— alternative and voted for third parties. they did in 2016, - alternative and voted for third | parties. they did in 2016, they alternative and voted for third - parties. they did in 2016, they did in 2020, _ parties. they did in 2016, they did in 2020, let— parties. they did in 2016, they did in 2020, let see _ parties. they did in 2016, they did in 2020, let see what _ parties. they did in 2016, they did in 2020, let see what the - parties. they did in 2016, they did | in 2020, let see what the situation is in 2024 — in 2020, let see what the situation is in 2024. . , . ., ., , is in 2024. larry sancho, always treat to is in 2024. larry sancho, always great to have — is in 2024. larry sancho, always great to have you _ is in 2024. larry sancho, always great to have you on. _ is in 2024. larry sancho, always great to have you on. -- - is in 2024. larry sancho, always great to have you on. -- larry i great to have you on. —— larry sabado. we will speak to our panel a little bit later. ijust want i just want to take you live to the us as we have many times been speaking about indictments against donald trump. we are watching live pictures there in washington, dc. that is the district courthouse and there are potential mortgage donald trump indictments looming. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. bbc news, bringing you different stories from across the uk. it's 100 years since the first mg rolled out of morris garages, in oxford. a century on, they're still drawing a crowd. the appeal, certainly when i was youngster, is that it was a sports car. it was a two—seater and you could have fun with it. but a wet day could dampen all that. it's not a car for the rain, no, definitely not. this is the first outing in the rain since completing its four—year restoration. it's total original and i've done all the work myself. archive: mg, for 35 years a magic. name to all who love thoroughbred... for years, it was the ultimate boy's toy, and so it remains today. - the abingdon factory finally closed in 1980. and what's this? built in china, some purists will argue this isn't a true mg, but... at least it's keeping the marque alive, and it's bringing new people in to the mg car club. head to the bbc news website for more stores across the uk. you're watching bbc news. you're live with bbc news. breaking news about the story were just talking about. that is donald trumps potential more indictments coming his way. indictments are on charges, allegations were that this is what he just posted. i will bring it to you. he says on true social which is social media network, he says are you here that the range jack smith in order to interfere with the presidential election of 2024 will be putting out yet another fake indictment of your favourite president, me at five p:m.. why didn't they do this you would have years ago? why did they wait so long? because they wanted to put it right in the middle of my campaign. prosecutorial misconduct. let's get an immediate reaction doug is part of our panel along with katia 0dell. doug, what do you make of those words from donald trump? aytekin hiuuhlihts words from donald trump? aytekin highlights what _ words from donald trump? aytekin highlights what we _ words from donald trump? aytekin highlights what we are _ words from donald trump? aytekin highlights what we are talking - words from donald trump? aytekinl highlights what we are talking about earlier about how different this is then what we typically see in american politics typically when someone gets indicted they don't put out a press release informing people. they may put out what we call a holding statement so they can explain what they've done right or wrong in this case. they don't announce it and say look at me, i've been indicted. he'll raise a lot of money and that's part of his plan. we will get the statement up again. i want to do a bit of translation. doug, you may have to help me. just to say, i hear that deranged jack smith, doug, just talk us through jack smith is. jack smith, doug, 'ust talk us through jack smith rs.— jack smith is. jack smith is a secial jack smith is. jack smith is a special prosecutor _ jack smith is. jack smith is a special prosecutor who - jack smith is. jack smith is a special prosecutor who been | special prosecutor who been appointed to investigate these issues with the department of justice. not in appointed byjob two joe biden this is not abide biden administration personnel dedicated solely to this matter.— solely to this matter. fantastic. thank you _ solely to this matter. fantastic. thank you for— solely to this matter. fantastic. thank you for that. _ solely to this matter. fantastic. thank you for that. in _ solely to this matter. fantastic. thank you for that. in order - solely to this matter. fantastic. thank you for that. in order to i thank you for that. in order to interfere with the presidential election 2020 for will be putting out yet another fake indictment of your president. please talk us through indictments. what does that word mean? it through indictments. what does that word mean? ., , through indictments. what does that word mean? . , ., �*, through indictments. what does that word mean?— word mean? it means that he's been charred word mean? it means that he's been charged with — word mean? it means that he's been charged with a _ word mean? it means that he's been charged with a crime. _ word mean? it means that he's been charged with a crime. whether- word mean? it means that he's been charged with a crime. whether he i charged with a crime. whether he committed a crime or not obviously, we don't fully know. but the indictment is very real. if he is indicted he will be arrested. we will see that whole process play out again. as a whether he is a favourite president i will leave that up to viewers. i favourite president i will leave that up to viewers.— favourite president i will leave that up to viewers. i never knew you are such a — that up to viewers. i never knew you are such a donald _ that up to viewers. i never knew you are such a donald trump _ that up to viewers. i never knew you are such a donald trump translator. | are such a donald trump translator. nearly died. five p:m., why didn't they do this two and half years ago, why did they wait so long? because they want to put it right in the middle of my camp paint. prosecutorial misconduct. what is he getting out there with the timing of this? ., getting out there with the timing of this? . , , ,., ., getting out there with the timing of this? . , , ., ., ., this? that support an argument for trum -. this? that support an argument for trump- he — this? that support an argument for trump- he saying _ this? that support an argument for trump. he saying they're _ this? that support an argument for trump. he saying they're trying - this? that support an argument for trump. he saying they're trying to | trump. he saying they're trying to prevent me from becoming president again. again, this reinforces bizarrely his key argument that the system is rigged, raised against you, rigged against me. donald trump basically perpetuating himself as a victim in all of this or more accurately a martyr. that he's taking the slings and arrows for his supporters. part of this timing as well, even a lot of democrats would tell you they sure would've which the indictments and come a lot soonerfor a lot of the indictments and come a lot sooner for a lot of reasons such as political campaigns. but that it's taken this long is vexing to a lot of democrats.— taken this long is vexing to a lot of democrats. ,., ., , of democrats. doug, in general, this kind of post — of democrats. doug, in general, this kind of post on _ of democrats. doug, in general, this kind of post on true _ of democrats. doug, in general, this kind of post on true social, _ of democrats. doug, in general, this kind of post on true social, this is . kind of post on true social, this is his attempt to get out in front of the story. his attempt to get out in front of the sto . , ., the story. yes, he tried to shape the story. yes, he tried to shape the story. yes, he tried to shape the story in _ the story. yes, he tried to shape the story in his _ the story. yes, he tried to shape the story in his own _ the story. yes, he tried to shape the story in his own benefit. - the story. yes, he tried to shape the story in his own benefit. andj the story in his own benefit. and regardless of the name calling that always comes in with these, i don't know jack smith, always comes in with these, i don't knowjack smith, i can't always comes in with these, i don't know jack smith, i can't tell you he's deranged or not, i would argue that he probably isn't. but this is he communicates, probably to the public in the world but also specifically to his base. this is to shore up his support so that is core trump days doesn't make a move without him. trump days doesn't make a move without him-— trump days doesn't make a move without him. ., ,. ., , ., . without him. fascinating. democratic strateaists without him. fascinating. democratic strategists for _ without him. fascinating. democratic strategists for president _ without him. fascinating. democratic strategists for president obama. - strategists for president obama. what do you make of this approach by donald trump on his social media at? is parfor the course donald trump on his social media at? is par for the course was up donald trump _ is par for the course was up donald trump has — is par for the course was up donald trump has been doing this for ever. we saw— trump has been doing this for ever. we saw him — trump has been doing this for ever. we saw him do it with his first two impeachments, his last two indictments and today is forthcoming and we _ indictments and today is forthcoming and we know that georgia will come shortly— and we know that georgia will come shortly thereafter in the next few weeks _ shortly thereafter in the next few weeks with a donald trump likes to play the _ weeks with a donald trump likes to play the martyr. he likes to utilise these _ play the martyr. he likes to utilise these events, these charges to fund raise for— these events, these charges to fund raise for his — these events, these charges to fund raise for his political campaigns. but in _ raise for his political campaigns. but in addition to that to fund raise — but in addition to that to fund raise to — but in addition to that to fund raise to fight against the next layer— raise to fight against the next layer of— raise to fight against the next layer of indictments for him and his codefendants. this is something that donald _ codefendants. this is something that donald trump is done for quite some time now— donald trump is done for quite some time now for— donald trump is done for quite some time now for the americans are quite frankly— time now for the americans are quite frankly use _ time now for the americans are quite frankly use to it and frustrated by it. frankly use to it and frustrated by it he _ frankly use to it and frustrated by it. he cannot take accountability of any of— it. he cannot take accountability of any of his— it. he cannot take accountability of any of his wrongdoing. he will tell his base, — any of his wrongdoing. he will tell his base, the republican voters time and time _ his base, the republican voters time and time again that the courts are unjust, _ and time again that the courts are unjust, they are prosecuting you, you meeting the voters themselves without _ you meeting the voters themselves without he'll try to lie his way out of it and — without he'll try to lie his way out of it and use it as a fundraising strategy— of it and use it as a fundraising strategy for that game set and match — strategy for that game set and match. he'll do it again until something sticks.— match. he'll do it again until something sticks. match. he'll do it again until somethin: sticks. ,, . something sticks. state right there. i want to go — something sticks. state right there. i want to go back _ something sticks. state right there. i want to go back to _ something sticks. state right there. i want to go back to the _ something sticks. state right there. i want to go back to the live - i want to go back to the live pictures that we did show you a moment ago. this is washington, this is the courthouse in washington, dc where we are potentially awaiting further trump indictments. that is formal accusations of alleged crimes. we will be keeping an eye on the courthouse, if we see any movement we will come straight back to it. you mentioned georgia for that i didn't want to jump to it. you mentioned georgia for that i didn't want tojump in and interrupt at the time but could you in a simple wayjust remind our viewers right around the world the different court appearances, indictment charges, processes that are all going on around donald trump right now? ididtc are all going on around donald trump riaht now? ,, , , are all going on around donald trump riahtnow? ,, , ., right now? ddc case is federal, the geora ia right now? ddc case is federal, the georgia case _ right now? ddc case is federal, the georgia case is _ right now? ddc case is federal, the georgia case is a _ right now? ddc case is federal, the georgia case is a state _ right now? ddc case is federal, the georgia case is a state base - right now? ddc case is federal, the georgia case is a state base case, i georgia case is a state base case, which _ georgia case is a state base case, which could include rico charges was at the _ which could include rico charges was at the georgia case largely sits on former— at the georgia case largely sits on former president trump's phone call to the _ former president trump's phone call to the georgia secretary of state telling _ to the georgia secretary of state telling him to find hundreds of thousands of votes to basically shift _ thousands of votes to basically shift the — thousands of votes to basically shift the election victory for that state _ shift the election victory for that state from joe biden to donald trump — state from joe biden to donald trump. he not only called the secretary— trump. he not only called the secretary of state, he tried to call all favours — secretary of state, he tried to call all favours from republican leadership in the state of georgia because — leadership in the state of georgia because he did not want to believe that a _ because he did not want to believe that a previously republican stronghold, at least in the presidency did not turn to emigrants in decades— presidency did not turn to emigrants in decades was something that he could _ in decades was something that he could lose. he was basically trying to call— could lose. he was basically trying to call in_ could lose. he was basically trying to call in favours. he also orchestrated part of the big lie, the 2020 — orchestrated part of the big lie, the 2020 election fraud scandal that he promoted for that he lied on georgia — he promoted for that he lied on georgia he said that there were black— georgia he said that there were black people who were election officials — black people who were election officials who were basically stuffing the ballots, changing votes — stuffing the ballots, changing votes. he tweeted those peoples names— votes. he tweeted those peoples names out, which they had to essentially go into hiding because his base _ essentially go into hiding because his base was threatening their lives — his base was threatening their lives. essentially this was kind of wood _ lives. essentially this was kind of wood snowballed into the effects of what was _ wood snowballed into the effects of what was on january six. george is an important part of this puzzle because — an important part of this puzzle because there is no innuendo. these are words that come directly out of donald _ are words that come directly out of donald trump small put of the recordings are available, the tweets are available, e—mails are available. georgia is going to be a very big _ available. georgia is going to be a very big case here.— very big case here. interesting. just to be _ very big case here. interesting. just to be clear _ very big case here. interesting. just to be clear you _ very big case here. interesting. just to be clear you are - very big case here. interesting. just to be clear you are talking | just to be clear you are talking about georgia, what we are talking about georgia, what we are talking about right now is january the 6th. which is separate from previous court proceedings around new york, campaign finances, court proceedings around new york, campaignfinances, meryl court proceedings around new york, campaign finances, meryl lago, classified documents, they are all separate. let's focus on january six to remind people, we will take a look at pictures you remember of course what happened onjanuary six. basically, mrtrump course what happened onjanuary six. basically, mr trump at the moment has not been charged in connection with the federal investigation into efforts to undermine the 2020 election, that culminated in a riot at the us capitol. but he has received a letter indicating that he is a target of the investigation was up is a target of the investigation was up and then we have his truth social post just up and then we have his truth social postjust now in the last few minutes. maybe we should remind ourselves what that says. let's take a look at his posts and the word specifically. he says... i hear that deranged jack smith, that's his words obviously in order to interfere with the presidential election of 2024 will be putting out yet another fake indictment of your favourite president, me at five p:m.. why didn't they do that two and a half years ago? why did they wait so long? because they wanted to put it right in the middle of my campaign. prosecutorial misconduct. let's cross to our correspondent now. bring us up to speed with what we know in the light of this message from donald trump. that social media -osed from donald trump. that social media osed b from donald trump. that social media posed by donald _ from donald trump. that social media posed by donald trump _ from donald trump. that social media posed by donald trump is _ from donald trump. that social media posed by donald trump is all- from donald trump. that social media posed by donald trump is all we've i posed by donald trump is all we've got to go off so far. the media is gathered here as you can imagine. we know that the grand jury looking at evidence that is been presented by the special counseljack smith of the special counseljack smith of the meeting in the car behind me, we know they've been there today for that we believe they have left but persons still inside the court said there is some sort of suggestion that there could be a decision about the january six investigation. as always, donald trump tends to get ahead of these things. we saw this in the last indictment in florida with the classified documents. the first indictment over allegations that he falsified business documents backin that he falsified business documents back in new york. strangely there is almost like a blueprint by the former president and running to be president again of these indictments. as of yet there is no official confirmation at all about what is happening. all we can go off of it is what donald trump is saying. and just to recap what you said they are, to quote again he said, "i hear deranged jack smith, that's what he refers to the special prosecutor, in order to interfere with the election of 2024 will be putting out yet another fake indictment of your favourite president, me at 5pm eastern time. that's around about six minutes' time, my time. and donald trump is doing what he's done with all the other indictments. he says that they are fake and has insinuated that the only reason these indictments are happening is because the department ofjustice has been baptized by president biden in order to go after him. that is exactly what he is saying here in this posejust to reiterate, we don't know what is happening. we don't know there's going to be in indictment. all we can go off of right now is what donald trump is saying. thank you so much for that- _ donald trump is saying. thank you so much for that. stay _ donald trump is saying. thank you so much for that. stay there _ donald trump is saying. thank you so much for that. stay there for - donald trump is saying. thank you so much for that. stay there for us - donald trump is saying. thank you so much for that. stay there for us i - much for that. stay there for us i want to bring in doug, republican strategist for the we saw pictures there of january the 6th just more broadly, what plays does the events of that day occupy in the us consciousness and the us psyche now that that much time has passed? i was about a quarter of a mile from the capital will not happen. so it is very much in my psyche any time i was past the capital i think of it. the honest answer is it really depends on who you talk to. republicans and democrats view the day somewhat differently or very differently. even within the republican party it may be viewed differently depending on how much you support donald trump for that what we see is people seeing the same images but often walking away with very different thoughts on it. i would say with what trump is put out there on truth socialjust now, we should take with a rather large grain of salt. he may be indicted and announced a five p:m.. and on march 18 he said he was can be indicted on march 21 without it didn't happen till march 30. why his put this out? he certainly see some reasoning for it but it doesn't mean it could happen exactly as he says it could happen exactly as he says it well. ., ~ it could happen exactly as he says it well. ., ,, , ., it could happen exactly as he says it well. . ~' , ., , it could happen exactly as he says it well. . ~' ,, , . it well. doug, thank you very much for that note _ it well. doug, thank you very much for that note of _ it well. doug, thank you very much for that note of caution _ it well. doug, thank you very much for that note of caution and - for that note of caution and scepticism. duly noted. while you were talking about elections and the importance of january six were talking about elections and the importance ofjanuary six amisha cross, you were nodding along for that we were nodding along to the sense that different people with difficult two different viewpoints to view it very differently? absolutely. it's unfortunate because i don't _ absolutely. it's unfortunate because i don't have many document footage first aid _ i don't have many document footage first aid accounts, witnesses have two come — first aid accounts, witnesses have two come forward for republicans, for those _ two come forward for republicans, for those deeply entrenched chart below _ for those deeply entrenched chart below to — for those deeply entrenched chart below to understand what january six was this— below to understand what january six was this wasn't a figment of our that cooked up to make donald trump look bad _ that cooked up to make donald trump look bad. this literally happen. we saw hours — look bad. this literally happen. we saw hours saw hours upon hours of testimony — saw hours saw hours upon hours of testimony. we also saw the actual video— testimony. we also saw the actual video footage and the survivors, the capitol— video footage and the survivors, the capitol police who literally laid their— capitol police who literally laid their lives on the line to try to hold _ their lives on the line to try to hold back— their lives on the line to try to hold back individuals, mega— individuals that storm the capital with an _ individuals that storm the capital with an intent to kill for that people — with an intent to kill for that people were literally chanting hang mike pence with gallows outside waiting — mike pence with gallows outside waiting to hang a sitting vice president should he not change the outcome _ president should he not change the outcome of the election to where donald _ outcome of the election to where donald trump one. —— maga. there is nothing _ donald trump one. —— maga. there is nothing that _ donald trump one. —— maga. there is nothing that makes any of this misunderstood. it is quite frankly that donald trump is such a strong hold on— that donald trump is such a strong hold on republican voters in the republican party that no one is willing — republican party that no one is willing to — republican party that no one is willing to challenge or very few willing — willing to challenge or very few willing to challenge or very few willing to challenge or very few willing to challenge his narrative. it has _ willing to challenge his narrative. it has seeped into the republican psyche _ it has seeped into the republican psyche amongst republican voters that this _ psyche amongst republican voters that this is not a very important thing _ that this is not a very important thing the — that this is not a very important thing. the other think i think has happened — thing. the other think i think has happened since it has been so far since _ happened since it has been so far since january six is that americans are gone _ since january six is that americans are gone orr — since january six is that americans are gone on. we see economic issues back home _ are gone on. we see economic issues back home arise and inflation has tapered _ back home arise and inflation has tapered off and people are still having — tapered off and people are still having a — tapered off and people are still having a hard time pay for basic necessities, gas prices have gone up, the _ necessities, gas prices have gone up, the cost of raising a family has gone _ up, the cost of raising a family has gone out _ up, the cost of raising a family has gone out for— up, the cost of raising a family has gone out for the people are more concerned — gone out for the people are more concerned with kitchen table issues with kitchen table issues. i'm not sure _ with kitchen table issues. i'm not sure january six is a winning argument _ sure january six is a winning argument for democrats either for the even _ argument for democrats either for the even pointed out very factual things— the even pointed out very factual things that happened on that day. thank— things that happened on that day. thank you — things that happened on that day. thank you very much for your thoughts. thank you to doug and katia in our correspondent working away as you can see. far too busy to be listening to me. i can't blame her at all. these are live pictures of the courthouse in washington, dc. potentially we will be getting some news about further indictments on donald trump. he has posted on his social media that he is expecting to be further divided at 5pm local time. that is injust a be further divided at 5pm local time. that is in just a few seconds we are going to stay on these live pictures. forthe we are going to stay on these live pictures. for the moment this is bbc news. the illegal world of smuggling people into europe from pakistan. as people into europe from pakistan. the country rem after as the country remains in limbo after a military coup. evacuation orders have eased for an explosive wildfire at the us canada border, but residents are still on alert. and hundreds of pakistani migrants have reportedly drowned in a deadly voyage to europe. the bbc takes a look at their dangerous journey. welcome to world news america. we start with the deepening crisis in niger as european nations begin evacuating hundreds of citizens from the country. france, italy, and spain announced the evacuations over concerns that their nationals would become trapped after a military coup plunged the nation into crisis. the regional bloc ecowas has threatened to use force to reinstage niger's ousted president — mohamed bazoum. niger's new military leaders have warned against these attempts. some countries in the region have come to the new leadership's defence, including burkina faso, mali, and guinea — declaring that any military invention in niger would be considered a declaration of war. niger is located in the sahel region. it's a key region for western countries in counterterrorism operations. the uk foreign secretaryjames cleverly is visiting west africa and talked to the bbc about the coup's impact on the fight against insurgency.

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