Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240708 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240708



now on bbc news, the experience of losing a pregnancy can be life—changing, yet there is still so much we don't know about why it happens. the bbc�*s tulip mazumdar has gone on a search for answers. a warning, this programme contains details some viewers may find distressing. you never think it will happen to you. one day, your baby is there. you heard its fierce heartbeat. the next, the life inside of them, their life inside of you, is gone. it is estimated that around one in five pregnancies end in miscarriage, but the numbers are vague, as most countries do not actually count these losses. i have had one healthy pregnancy, my beautiful boy rion, and four that ended in loss. two were early miscarriages and two happened much later into my pregnancies, where i gave birth to my tiny babies, rivah and rae. i am one of tens of millions of women around the world who have suffered pregnancy loss and as my work as global health correspondent has shown me many times, i know how lucky i am to receive the level of care i have had. the conversation around pregnancy loss is opening up so much more in the uk, with things like this beautiful exhibition here in manchester. but after my losses, it struck me, given how physically and mentally painful miscarriage can be, why are we not talking about it more? why do we not know more about what happens? my name is professor siobhan quenby. my name is natasha necati. rukhsana. i have spent the last few months looking into how pregnancy loss impacts families all around the world and how they can be better supported, why the colour of our skin can affect our chances of having a healthy pregnancy. ijust do not think we are being listened to and heard in the spaces. do you think it is about the colour of your skin? all: absolutely. and heard from one group often left out of the conversation. my wife was near to death. i had a cry sitting on the toilet, because that was the only time i could get to be alone. the hats knitted lovingly for twins that were never worn. the tiny teddy which nestled next to a tiny baby, born silent. the beautiful shoes bought for stillborn baby jenny on what would have been her second birthday. this still parents exhibition here at manchester's whitworth gallery is the first of its kind, aimed at breaking some of that silence that still surrounds baby and pregnancy loss all around the world. even the word itself can be problematic. miscarriage, to miscarry, is defined as... or... the focus there clearly on failure. many countries do not even have a specific word for miscarriage, theyjust use the term spontaneous abortion, which can be very upsetting and confusing. even the medical term miscarriage is defined differently depending on where you are in the world and it is based on when a baby can survive on its own outside the womb. whatever you call this type of loss, and no matter what point in pregnancy it happens, it can be a life—changing event. for the mums and families who contributed to this exhibition, it is a unique opportunity to acknowledge and reflect on their losses. most women do not get that chance. we are often told that miscarriage is just a part of life, move on, try again, it was not meant to be. but a recent study suggests that millions of women around the world are potentially spending years suffering with undiagnosed and untreated post—traumatic stress after experiencing a miscarriage and researchers are increasingly looking for new and innovative ways to try and help women and families. back injanuary, i went to a very special event in edinburgh. as you walk with your lanterns, we hope you are able to find some light in the dark and will be walking in memory of your baby that died. as dusk approaches, hundreds of families gather to remember the lives that could have been and those which were far too short lived. the starlight walk has been organised by the baby loss charity sands. kellie suffered a late miscarriage five months into her pregnancy and went through the traumatic experience of giving birth to her son, henry. i believe it changed my whole outlook in life. this person i was when i went into the hospital is not the same person that walked back out. i got diagnosed with post—traumatic stress disorder and anxiety. data on miscarriage and its impact is vague, as losses are not officially counted in most countries, and it is still seen as taboo in many parts of the world, so millions of women end up suffering in silence. translation: i was very scared. one miscarriage is ok but then second, third and after the last one i lost all hope. i could not sleep. i would lay awake and pray to allah to make everything ok. i had lost something that i wanted really badly, - so i remember one night it was raining outside - and i wasjust in my bedroom, and then the rain just startedl coming and then from . nowhere i started crying and i cried and i cried. it was very hard, this time in my life, and i thought something might be wrong with me and i was so worried and i lost my self—confidence. i was very depressed. research carried out at three london hospitals suggest nearly one in three women suffered post—traumatic stress one month after a loss. some women's symptoms improved over time, but one in six women still had post—traumatic stress after nine months. most women are never diagnosed or treated. the most common symptoms are flashbacks, so people are getting flashbacks of the event, re—experiencing what actually happened to them, perhaps. i think it can be incredibly destructive. at the moment, screening is not happening and i think people are constantly slipping through the net, and i think being unwell for a number of years. it differs throughout the world. i think the challenges are the same, you have lost a baby at the end of the day and i think the core issue is that in the end i think a lot of these people all around the world are suffering very similarly. we are in this beautiful meadow, i can see a couple of stags in the distance. this is one potential solution being developed by professor bourne and his team to try and make what can be a very traumatic experience more bearable. this is a virtual reality headset that we are offering women who need to have a procedure to remove pregnancy tissue when they have miscarried, to transport them to sort of a more calm virtual reality world for distraction from the pain and anxiety during the procedure. dr parker has just started trialling this new kit. she is also doing a study looking into how other activities like playing tetris or listening to a podcast might help. we are looking to see if a brief cognitive task shortly after a traumatic event can target specifically intrusive memories or the flashbacks and whether that can prevent a development not only of those distressing symptoms in and of themselves but other psychological problems. as night falls in edinburgh, each lantern for each life lost shines bright. more than 300 people are taking part in tonight's walk. there has been so much love here, lots of tears as well, silence at times, but also laughter and most of all, there has been acknowledgement, recognition of these precious lives that have been lost. for kellie, this walk is part of her healing process. i feel he is with me when i come to these, i feel close to him. i know he is with me every day, but these events make it more real. kellie remembers her son every day, but she still does not know why her baby died. in fact, most people never get a definitive answer, myself included. and that can make the healing process even harder. the causes of miscarriage are not well understood. most happen in the first three months of pregnancy and around half of those are due to genetic or chromosomal issues which the baby would have never survived. hormonal conditions, blood clotting problems and some infections can also contribute to higher risks, as can your age and being over 35 years old. but people can reduce their risk of miscarriage by giving up smoking, being a healthy weight and maintaining a balanced diet and avoiding alcohol. whilst there are still so many unknowns around miscarriage generally, when it comes to the risk of black and asian women, the picture is even more opaque. what researchers are increasingly finding is that black and asian women are at higher risk of miscarriage, black women in particular are 40% more likely to suffer a loss than white women, according to one recent study. how and why is this happening? i wanted to find out, so i have been speaking to women in the us and in the uk where most of the research on this is under way. isabel and paulson are expecting their baby boy next month. can you see your baby's face? very emotional. i'm just trying to contain myself now. they lost their previous pregnancy at four months last march. this baby is doing well and they are being supported by staff at this specialist recurrent miscarriage clinic in coventry, but the care they received during their previous pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage has left isabel scarred for life. the day that we were sure there was something wrong, i remember being laughed at by one of the staff nurses and saying, "just go home, why do you keep coming? just take codeine and paracetamol, you will be fine." i was actually losing fluids and bleeding at the time. within 48 hours of going home, isabel started bleeding heavily. she was rushed to hospital, but her baby boy died. and why do you feel you are not listened to, you are not heard? the colour of my skin. "black skin, it is not from here, you can wait." there is very little doctors can do to save a baby at this stage in pregnancy, but the feeling of not being listened to is what has stayed with isabel. judah, wa key—wa key. more than 100 miles away in hornchurch in essex, natasha cradles littlejudah. she experienced eight miscarriages before his arrival, including a late loss of almost five months into her pregnancy. hello! what is going on? everything is supposed to be ok, no—one tells you that your waters are going to break early, so that was a massive shock to me and then to lose a baby and have to bury the baby, that was just unimaginable. natasha says she also did not feel heard by some clinicians and says urgent research is needed to understand what is going on. we have been given the problem, we have been told about the problem, but we have not been given a solution. we are in a western country, we are in 2022 and we do not have a solution to that, we do not even know what the steps are or the reason why and it is just really frustrating. it is notjust in the uk where there are these concerns. like isabel, these women in the us have also felt belittled and ignored. they call themselves sisters in loss. hi, there. all: hi. it is the name of their organisation, created to help give black women a voice when it comes to maternal health. all have suffered pregnancy loss. i had my loss at 12 weeks. this was in 2018. neatrice told me she was inconsolable when she was scanned and told there was no heartbeat. i collapsed, i got sick right there and then and she asked me, "why are you throwing up? did you come here sick?" and i had to explain to her you just told me my baby no longer has a heartbeat, so there was no compassion. i woke up, i was having really bad back pain and i was told by my doctor when i called that i wasjust constipated. they told me to come back in a few hours for an ultrasound. i never even made it back to that ultrasound because i miscarried at home. all four women described numerous occasions where they did not feel their concerns were taken seriously by clinicians. ijust do not think we are being listened to and heard in the spaces. do you think it is about the colour of your skin? all: absolutely. it really is a struggle all around when it comes to our maternal care. i have come to queen charlotte's and chelsea hospital here in west london, which sees many black and ethnic minority patients, to try and get a better understanding of why black women are at higher risk of having a miscarriage, whether they have underlying health conditions or not, and no matter what their social economic or educational background. why does a women's skin colour affect her chances of having a healthy baby? christine ekechi runs the early pregnancy unit here, she is also co—chair of the royal college of obstetricians and gynaecologists race equality task force. unfortunately, black women have a number of factors associated with the risk of miscarriage overrepresented, so for example they are more likely to have a number of conditions that puts them at greater risk of miscarriage, but really on a more significant level, what we hear time and time again is that black women never feel heard in this space. without addressing the institutional racism where it exists, we will never be able to truly say that all women receive the care that they so deserve. back in coventry, professor siobhan quenby runs the recurrent miscarriage clinic at university hospital. a lot of the patients are understandably very anxious because of their previous pregnancy losses _ she is also a leading researcher in this field, which is notoriously underfunded. she is currently trying to raise money to investigate some of the many unknowns around why black women are at higher risk, including looking into any potential biological factors. we know for example if you are black and asian then you handle glucose less well. so we know you are at much more increased risk of gestational diabetes. we also know that the balance of bacteria in your vagina is different in black and asian women to white women and we know an imbalance in the bacteria in your vagina has been associated with miscarriage and preterm birth, so that is another area we can look at. researchers do not know if black women and african countries women in african countries for example are also at greater risk. the data is simply not collected. there is clearly a myriad of compacts and difficult issues at play here, but the longer we do not have answers to some of these key questions, the longer so many women will continue to suffer needlessly. one idea professor quenby and her team are already working on in the uk is an app where women will be able to input their clinical details like ethnicity, weight and whether they have had any previous miscarriages. they will then get specific evidence—based advice on how to lower their risk of a loss. but pregnancy loss can isolate you from those closest to you, especially your partner. again, there has been very limited research on this, but partners have reported feeling helpless, ignored and in some cases, deeply traumatised. i have been hearing from partners all around the world, starting with amir sangal in karachi, pakistan. translation: at first, | i didn't know what to do, because i had never experienced anything like this before. my wife was near to death. there was a feeling of loss like i had lost someone who was my own, but i had to control my emotions. amir and his wife rukhsana, who we heard from earlier, suffered three miscarriages and one ectopic pregnancy, where the embryo starts going outside the womb. they now have two little daughters, but they said it is very difficult to be open about pregnancy loss. our second loss remained between me and my wife. we did not share it with anyone in the family, because we felt this is our pain, we need to go through it alone. our society can make you feel like a loss is your own fault. within some families, their are mother—in—laws who taunt their daughter—in—law for a miscarriage. we should be having more open discussions about miscarriage. i'm sharing my story with the world now in the hope it might benefit someone else. amir is not the only one opening up about his losses. more than 5000 kilometres away in malawi, chisomo mwamadi is on a mission to remove the taboo of miscarriage in africa too. you are not supposed to express your grief or express your pain, you have to be the strong one. this is also culture in africa, especially in malawi, things like miscarriage are taboo in this part of the world. in the uk, men who have experienced pregnancy and baby loss are increasingly finding each other and starting up support communities. these men have all lost babies and they share their grief through football. there is no pressure to grieve. us playing football and us doing the training is us grieving. matt and his wife lauren have suffered four miscarriages. it absently crushed me. i would go and do some shopping and i would cry in the car on the way to the shops, or i would cry sitting on the toilet, because that was the only time i could get to be alone. during and after a loss, the focus is quite rightly on the women, support for women is patchy across the world and many women do not get any support at all during or after a miscarriage, but for men, support is practically nonexistent everywhere. we do not all kind of sit round and discuss our losses, it is just that absolute knowledge that everyone has experienced what you're going through. what are partners, particularly men, up against when it comes to dealing with this kind of loss? this toxic masculinity, "big boys don't cry, man up." it is the stereotype of being strong for your partner, isn't it? - yes. you are listening to the dads still standing podcast and we are about miscarriage, stillbirth, baby loss. two of the football players have also set up a podcast where they are increasingly hearing from people all around the world. so, we are going to be talking to raul navarrojr, he is one of our followers on instagram. raul has been in touch from california. to be honest, i did not have much support at all. - the hardest part i think it's people wanted to dismiss it, you know. i thank you so much. for raul, liam, matt and all those speaking out, the aim is to help others who might be secretly struggling. many people choose not to talk about their losses, but it is about having the opportunity to if and when needed. what is the worst that can happen? we cannot make anyone feel worse about what they have gone through, but actually we can make a lot of people feel a little bit more at ease. yes, baby loss does not discriminant, does not care what colour you are, how much you earn, how old you are, it touches everyone on every continent. all the dads we have spoken to have gone on to have healthy babies and they all say speaking out has helped them to move forward. it is not the case for everyone, but most people who suffer a miscarriage will go on to have a healthy pregnancy. sadly though, the more miscarriages you have, the more likely you are to have another loss. i am on another pregnancyjourney. apprehensive, hopeful, scared. excited. will everything be ok this time? what will happen? it has been two months since we met isabel and she had a scan at university hospital coventry after losing two previous pregnancies. and it is wonderful news. this is the gift i have been asking, to be able to hold my son in my arms, alive. little angelo has arrived safe and well. so when i last saw you and paulson, it was really anxious time. it now looks as though you are in a very different place. iam. i mean, when we last met, i was thinking... i was still doubting, to be honest, that i would have such a healthy baby and, you know, such a good outcome. our little angelo is a month old today. we just marked on monday we lost our baby a year ago, so it has been, you know, we have mixed feelings. we do not know how we feel, to be honest. you can just sleep and rest now. for those who can feel hopeless after a loss, what would you say to them more generally? you need to take your time, do not try to rush, do not try to hear what society is telling you, just get over it and listen to you, listen to your partner. you have to trust in yourself. it can feel like the vast majority of the miscarriages are inevitable, but that is not the case. there are answers and treatments out there, we just needed to properly research them to find them. nobody knows what their pregnancy journey is going to look like or whether they will be able to have children at all. i know how blessed i am in so many ways. but from my conversations with families, doctors, midwives, campaigners, researchers, it is clear that so many people feel very alone on this journey. opening up though, being honest about the good, the bad, thejoyous and the painful experiences of pregnancy loss, all of us can perhaps feel a little less alone. for some, the last day of april has brought some much—needed rain. for others, just a continuation of a very dry theme. the wettest weather has been found across scotland and northern ireland, but will be thinking southward and eastward as we head through tonight. the rain tending to weaken somewhat, but there will be a lot of risk to their mist and murk. there will be a lot of risk to their mistand murk. a there will be a lot of risk to their mist and murk. a lot smarter than us tonight, seven to 10 degrees. flipping ourfortunes tonight, seven to 10 degrees. flipping our fortunes tomorrow, cadiz weather across england and wales although eastern parts will probably not see much rain, but in scotland and northern ireland a bit brighter, some sunny spells lifting temperatures in glasgow to 17 degrees, coolerfurther temperatures in glasgow to 17 degrees, cooler further south. temperatures in glasgow to 17 degrees, coolerfurther south. as we get into bank holiday monday, quite a mixed day, large areas of cloud. some sunny spells, equally the odd spot of rain or the odd shower here or there. spot of rain or the odd shower here orthere. highest spot of rain or the odd shower here or there. highest temperatures this stage at 18 degrees, feeling a little bit cooler further north. this is bbc news. the headlines at four. in an exclusive interview with the bbc — neil parish has said he's is resigning as an mp, after admitting he watched pornography in the house of commons. in the end i could see that the fury and damage i was causing my family and damage i was causing my family and my constituency and association was not worth carrying on. i’ll was not worth carrying on. i'll brin: was not worth carrying on. i'll bring you all the latest updates and reactions on that story. police officers searching for 33—year old katie kenyon who went missing a week ago have found the body of a woman. the ministry of defence says russia has been forced to merge and redeploy some of its forces in ukraine, because of failed advances in the north—east of the country the government is taking urgent action to limit the amount of some

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Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240708 : Comparemela.com

Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240708

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now on bbc news, the experience of losing a pregnancy can be life—changing, yet there is still so much we don't know about why it happens. the bbc�*s tulip mazumdar has gone on a search for answers. a warning, this programme contains details some viewers may find distressing. you never think it will happen to you. one day, your baby is there. you heard its fierce heartbeat. the next, the life inside of them, their life inside of you, is gone. it is estimated that around one in five pregnancies end in miscarriage, but the numbers are vague, as most countries do not actually count these losses. i have had one healthy pregnancy, my beautiful boy rion, and four that ended in loss. two were early miscarriages and two happened much later into my pregnancies, where i gave birth to my tiny babies, rivah and rae. i am one of tens of millions of women around the world who have suffered pregnancy loss and as my work as global health correspondent has shown me many times, i know how lucky i am to receive the level of care i have had. the conversation around pregnancy loss is opening up so much more in the uk, with things like this beautiful exhibition here in manchester. but after my losses, it struck me, given how physically and mentally painful miscarriage can be, why are we not talking about it more? why do we not know more about what happens? my name is professor siobhan quenby. my name is natasha necati. rukhsana. i have spent the last few months looking into how pregnancy loss impacts families all around the world and how they can be better supported, why the colour of our skin can affect our chances of having a healthy pregnancy. ijust do not think we are being listened to and heard in the spaces. do you think it is about the colour of your skin? all: absolutely. and heard from one group often left out of the conversation. my wife was near to death. i had a cry sitting on the toilet, because that was the only time i could get to be alone. the hats knitted lovingly for twins that were never worn. the tiny teddy which nestled next to a tiny baby, born silent. the beautiful shoes bought for stillborn baby jenny on what would have been her second birthday. this still parents exhibition here at manchester's whitworth gallery is the first of its kind, aimed at breaking some of that silence that still surrounds baby and pregnancy loss all around the world. even the word itself can be problematic. miscarriage, to miscarry, is defined as... or... the focus there clearly on failure. many countries do not even have a specific word for miscarriage, theyjust use the term spontaneous abortion, which can be very upsetting and confusing. even the medical term miscarriage is defined differently depending on where you are in the world and it is based on when a baby can survive on its own outside the womb. whatever you call this type of loss, and no matter what point in pregnancy it happens, it can be a life—changing event. for the mums and families who contributed to this exhibition, it is a unique opportunity to acknowledge and reflect on their losses. most women do not get that chance. we are often told that miscarriage is just a part of life, move on, try again, it was not meant to be. but a recent study suggests that millions of women around the world are potentially spending years suffering with undiagnosed and untreated post—traumatic stress after experiencing a miscarriage and researchers are increasingly looking for new and innovative ways to try and help women and families. back injanuary, i went to a very special event in edinburgh. as you walk with your lanterns, we hope you are able to find some light in the dark and will be walking in memory of your baby that died. as dusk approaches, hundreds of families gather to remember the lives that could have been and those which were far too short lived. the starlight walk has been organised by the baby loss charity sands. kellie suffered a late miscarriage five months into her pregnancy and went through the traumatic experience of giving birth to her son, henry. i believe it changed my whole outlook in life. this person i was when i went into the hospital is not the same person that walked back out. i got diagnosed with post—traumatic stress disorder and anxiety. data on miscarriage and its impact is vague, as losses are not officially counted in most countries, and it is still seen as taboo in many parts of the world, so millions of women end up suffering in silence. translation: i was very scared. one miscarriage is ok but then second, third and after the last one i lost all hope. i could not sleep. i would lay awake and pray to allah to make everything ok. i had lost something that i wanted really badly, - so i remember one night it was raining outside - and i wasjust in my bedroom, and then the rain just startedl coming and then from . nowhere i started crying and i cried and i cried. it was very hard, this time in my life, and i thought something might be wrong with me and i was so worried and i lost my self—confidence. i was very depressed. research carried out at three london hospitals suggest nearly one in three women suffered post—traumatic stress one month after a loss. some women's symptoms improved over time, but one in six women still had post—traumatic stress after nine months. most women are never diagnosed or treated. the most common symptoms are flashbacks, so people are getting flashbacks of the event, re—experiencing what actually happened to them, perhaps. i think it can be incredibly destructive. at the moment, screening is not happening and i think people are constantly slipping through the net, and i think being unwell for a number of years. it differs throughout the world. i think the challenges are the same, you have lost a baby at the end of the day and i think the core issue is that in the end i think a lot of these people all around the world are suffering very similarly. we are in this beautiful meadow, i can see a couple of stags in the distance. this is one potential solution being developed by professor bourne and his team to try and make what can be a very traumatic experience more bearable. this is a virtual reality headset that we are offering women who need to have a procedure to remove pregnancy tissue when they have miscarried, to transport them to sort of a more calm virtual reality world for distraction from the pain and anxiety during the procedure. dr parker has just started trialling this new kit. she is also doing a study looking into how other activities like playing tetris or listening to a podcast might help. we are looking to see if a brief cognitive task shortly after a traumatic event can target specifically intrusive memories or the flashbacks and whether that can prevent a development not only of those distressing symptoms in and of themselves but other psychological problems. as night falls in edinburgh, each lantern for each life lost shines bright. more than 300 people are taking part in tonight's walk. there has been so much love here, lots of tears as well, silence at times, but also laughter and most of all, there has been acknowledgement, recognition of these precious lives that have been lost. for kellie, this walk is part of her healing process. i feel he is with me when i come to these, i feel close to him. i know he is with me every day, but these events make it more real. kellie remembers her son every day, but she still does not know why her baby died. in fact, most people never get a definitive answer, myself included. and that can make the healing process even harder. the causes of miscarriage are not well understood. most happen in the first three months of pregnancy and around half of those are due to genetic or chromosomal issues which the baby would have never survived. hormonal conditions, blood clotting problems and some infections can also contribute to higher risks, as can your age and being over 35 years old. but people can reduce their risk of miscarriage by giving up smoking, being a healthy weight and maintaining a balanced diet and avoiding alcohol. whilst there are still so many unknowns around miscarriage generally, when it comes to the risk of black and asian women, the picture is even more opaque. what researchers are increasingly finding is that black and asian women are at higher risk of miscarriage, black women in particular are 40% more likely to suffer a loss than white women, according to one recent study. how and why is this happening? i wanted to find out, so i have been speaking to women in the us and in the uk where most of the research on this is under way. isabel and paulson are expecting their baby boy next month. can you see your baby's face? very emotional. i'm just trying to contain myself now. they lost their previous pregnancy at four months last march. this baby is doing well and they are being supported by staff at this specialist recurrent miscarriage clinic in coventry, but the care they received during their previous pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage has left isabel scarred for life. the day that we were sure there was something wrong, i remember being laughed at by one of the staff nurses and saying, "just go home, why do you keep coming? just take codeine and paracetamol, you will be fine." i was actually losing fluids and bleeding at the time. within 48 hours of going home, isabel started bleeding heavily. she was rushed to hospital, but her baby boy died. and why do you feel you are not listened to, you are not heard? the colour of my skin. "black skin, it is not from here, you can wait." there is very little doctors can do to save a baby at this stage in pregnancy, but the feeling of not being listened to is what has stayed with isabel. judah, wa key—wa key. more than 100 miles away in hornchurch in essex, natasha cradles littlejudah. she experienced eight miscarriages before his arrival, including a late loss of almost five months into her pregnancy. hello! what is going on? everything is supposed to be ok, no—one tells you that your waters are going to break early, so that was a massive shock to me and then to lose a baby and have to bury the baby, that was just unimaginable. natasha says she also did not feel heard by some clinicians and says urgent research is needed to understand what is going on. we have been given the problem, we have been told about the problem, but we have not been given a solution. we are in a western country, we are in 2022 and we do not have a solution to that, we do not even know what the steps are or the reason why and it is just really frustrating. it is notjust in the uk where there are these concerns. like isabel, these women in the us have also felt belittled and ignored. they call themselves sisters in loss. hi, there. all: hi. it is the name of their organisation, created to help give black women a voice when it comes to maternal health. all have suffered pregnancy loss. i had my loss at 12 weeks. this was in 2018. neatrice told me she was inconsolable when she was scanned and told there was no heartbeat. i collapsed, i got sick right there and then and she asked me, "why are you throwing up? did you come here sick?" and i had to explain to her you just told me my baby no longer has a heartbeat, so there was no compassion. i woke up, i was having really bad back pain and i was told by my doctor when i called that i wasjust constipated. they told me to come back in a few hours for an ultrasound. i never even made it back to that ultrasound because i miscarried at home. all four women described numerous occasions where they did not feel their concerns were taken seriously by clinicians. ijust do not think we are being listened to and heard in the spaces. do you think it is about the colour of your skin? all: absolutely. it really is a struggle all around when it comes to our maternal care. i have come to queen charlotte's and chelsea hospital here in west london, which sees many black and ethnic minority patients, to try and get a better understanding of why black women are at higher risk of having a miscarriage, whether they have underlying health conditions or not, and no matter what their social economic or educational background. why does a women's skin colour affect her chances of having a healthy baby? christine ekechi runs the early pregnancy unit here, she is also co—chair of the royal college of obstetricians and gynaecologists race equality task force. unfortunately, black women have a number of factors associated with the risk of miscarriage overrepresented, so for example they are more likely to have a number of conditions that puts them at greater risk of miscarriage, but really on a more significant level, what we hear time and time again is that black women never feel heard in this space. without addressing the institutional racism where it exists, we will never be able to truly say that all women receive the care that they so deserve. back in coventry, professor siobhan quenby runs the recurrent miscarriage clinic at university hospital. a lot of the patients are understandably very anxious because of their previous pregnancy losses _ she is also a leading researcher in this field, which is notoriously underfunded. she is currently trying to raise money to investigate some of the many unknowns around why black women are at higher risk, including looking into any potential biological factors. we know for example if you are black and asian then you handle glucose less well. so we know you are at much more increased risk of gestational diabetes. we also know that the balance of bacteria in your vagina is different in black and asian women to white women and we know an imbalance in the bacteria in your vagina has been associated with miscarriage and preterm birth, so that is another area we can look at. researchers do not know if black women and african countries women in african countries for example are also at greater risk. the data is simply not collected. there is clearly a myriad of compacts and difficult issues at play here, but the longer we do not have answers to some of these key questions, the longer so many women will continue to suffer needlessly. one idea professor quenby and her team are already working on in the uk is an app where women will be able to input their clinical details like ethnicity, weight and whether they have had any previous miscarriages. they will then get specific evidence—based advice on how to lower their risk of a loss. but pregnancy loss can isolate you from those closest to you, especially your partner. again, there has been very limited research on this, but partners have reported feeling helpless, ignored and in some cases, deeply traumatised. i have been hearing from partners all around the world, starting with amir sangal in karachi, pakistan. translation: at first, | i didn't know what to do, because i had never experienced anything like this before. my wife was near to death. there was a feeling of loss like i had lost someone who was my own, but i had to control my emotions. amir and his wife rukhsana, who we heard from earlier, suffered three miscarriages and one ectopic pregnancy, where the embryo starts going outside the womb. they now have two little daughters, but they said it is very difficult to be open about pregnancy loss. our second loss remained between me and my wife. we did not share it with anyone in the family, because we felt this is our pain, we need to go through it alone. our society can make you feel like a loss is your own fault. within some families, their are mother—in—laws who taunt their daughter—in—law for a miscarriage. we should be having more open discussions about miscarriage. i'm sharing my story with the world now in the hope it might benefit someone else. amir is not the only one opening up about his losses. more than 5000 kilometres away in malawi, chisomo mwamadi is on a mission to remove the taboo of miscarriage in africa too. you are not supposed to express your grief or express your pain, you have to be the strong one. this is also culture in africa, especially in malawi, things like miscarriage are taboo in this part of the world. in the uk, men who have experienced pregnancy and baby loss are increasingly finding each other and starting up support communities. these men have all lost babies and they share their grief through football. there is no pressure to grieve. us playing football and us doing the training is us grieving. matt and his wife lauren have suffered four miscarriages. it absently crushed me. i would go and do some shopping and i would cry in the car on the way to the shops, or i would cry sitting on the toilet, because that was the only time i could get to be alone. during and after a loss, the focus is quite rightly on the women, support for women is patchy across the world and many women do not get any support at all during or after a miscarriage, but for men, support is practically nonexistent everywhere. we do not all kind of sit round and discuss our losses, it is just that absolute knowledge that everyone has experienced what you're going through. what are partners, particularly men, up against when it comes to dealing with this kind of loss? this toxic masculinity, "big boys don't cry, man up." it is the stereotype of being strong for your partner, isn't it? - yes. you are listening to the dads still standing podcast and we are about miscarriage, stillbirth, baby loss. two of the football players have also set up a podcast where they are increasingly hearing from people all around the world. so, we are going to be talking to raul navarrojr, he is one of our followers on instagram. raul has been in touch from california. to be honest, i did not have much support at all. - the hardest part i think it's people wanted to dismiss it, you know. i thank you so much. for raul, liam, matt and all those speaking out, the aim is to help others who might be secretly struggling. many people choose not to talk about their losses, but it is about having the opportunity to if and when needed. what is the worst that can happen? we cannot make anyone feel worse about what they have gone through, but actually we can make a lot of people feel a little bit more at ease. yes, baby loss does not discriminant, does not care what colour you are, how much you earn, how old you are, it touches everyone on every continent. all the dads we have spoken to have gone on to have healthy babies and they all say speaking out has helped them to move forward. it is not the case for everyone, but most people who suffer a miscarriage will go on to have a healthy pregnancy. sadly though, the more miscarriages you have, the more likely you are to have another loss. i am on another pregnancyjourney. apprehensive, hopeful, scared. excited. will everything be ok this time? what will happen? it has been two months since we met isabel and she had a scan at university hospital coventry after losing two previous pregnancies. and it is wonderful news. this is the gift i have been asking, to be able to hold my son in my arms, alive. little angelo has arrived safe and well. so when i last saw you and paulson, it was really anxious time. it now looks as though you are in a very different place. iam. i mean, when we last met, i was thinking... i was still doubting, to be honest, that i would have such a healthy baby and, you know, such a good outcome. our little angelo is a month old today. we just marked on monday we lost our baby a year ago, so it has been, you know, we have mixed feelings. we do not know how we feel, to be honest. you can just sleep and rest now. for those who can feel hopeless after a loss, what would you say to them more generally? you need to take your time, do not try to rush, do not try to hear what society is telling you, just get over it and listen to you, listen to your partner. you have to trust in yourself. it can feel like the vast majority of the miscarriages are inevitable, but that is not the case. there are answers and treatments out there, we just needed to properly research them to find them. nobody knows what their pregnancy journey is going to look like or whether they will be able to have children at all. i know how blessed i am in so many ways. but from my conversations with families, doctors, midwives, campaigners, researchers, it is clear that so many people feel very alone on this journey. opening up though, being honest about the good, the bad, thejoyous and the painful experiences of pregnancy loss, all of us can perhaps feel a little less alone. for some, the last day of april has brought some much—needed rain. for others, just a continuation of a very dry theme. the wettest weather has been found across scotland and northern ireland, but will be thinking southward and eastward as we head through tonight. the rain tending to weaken somewhat, but there will be a lot of risk to their mist and murk. there will be a lot of risk to their mistand murk. a there will be a lot of risk to their mist and murk. a lot smarter than us tonight, seven to 10 degrees. flipping ourfortunes tonight, seven to 10 degrees. flipping our fortunes tomorrow, cadiz weather across england and wales although eastern parts will probably not see much rain, but in scotland and northern ireland a bit brighter, some sunny spells lifting temperatures in glasgow to 17 degrees, coolerfurther temperatures in glasgow to 17 degrees, cooler further south. temperatures in glasgow to 17 degrees, coolerfurther south. as we get into bank holiday monday, quite a mixed day, large areas of cloud. some sunny spells, equally the odd spot of rain or the odd shower here or there. spot of rain or the odd shower here orthere. highest spot of rain or the odd shower here or there. highest temperatures this stage at 18 degrees, feeling a little bit cooler further north. this is bbc news. the headlines at four. in an exclusive interview with the bbc — neil parish has said he's is resigning as an mp, after admitting he watched pornography in the house of commons. in the end i could see that the fury and damage i was causing my family and damage i was causing my family and my constituency and association was not worth carrying on. i’ll was not worth carrying on. i'll brin: was not worth carrying on. i'll bring you all the latest updates and reactions on that story. police officers searching for 33—year old katie kenyon who went missing a week ago have found the body of a woman. the ministry of defence says russia has been forced to merge and redeploy some of its forces in ukraine, because of failed advances in the north—east of the country the government is taking urgent action to limit the amount of some

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