welcome to the programme. the us senators who travelled to kyiv monday to meet president zelensky believe the threat of a russian invasion is "significant", "immediate" and ukraine needs to be ready for the worst. senator chris murphy from conneticut, one of the seven senators who travelled, said it would be the most "significant disruption to the post—cold war political order in europe since the conflict ended 30 years ago". no—one is entirely clear whether vladimir putin has made up his mind. that explains the shuttle to policy now unfolding. the us secretary of state left washington a few hours ago for kyiv, where he will hold talks tomorrow with president zelensky. on thursday, he will talk with france, germany and the uk ahead of crunch talks in geneva on friday with russian foreign minister sergei lavrov. the nato secretary—generaljens stoltenberg, who today talked to the german chancellor, said the alliance is ready to defend itself. the risk of a conflict is real. nato allies call on russia to de—escalate. any further aggression will come with a high cost for moscow. nato is a defensive alliance which does not threaten russia or any other country. no—one is entirely clear whether vladimir putin has made up his mind. moscow has begun evacuating families from his embassy in kyiv and two other consulates in ukraine which further increases concerns for. here's our correspondent in kyiv james waterhouse. christian, well, in kyiv today, you wouldn't know that the neighbouring country russia was preparing to invade with 100,000 troops stationed on the border. people are going to work as normal on a cold january evening. today, the uk has given ukraine short—range anti—tank missiles, which have been welcomed. the kremlin has called that extremely dangerous, but many ukrainians are used to this kind of tension. yes, things are building along the border, especially withjoint exercises between belarus and its ally russia. and many will also argue that ukraine's been at war with russia for some time already. 14,000 people have been killed in the conflict in the donbas region in the east of the country. the us secretary of state, antony blinken, arrives tomorrow for more talks. nothing new has been announced diplomatically yet, but many are pleased that he's in ukraine before meeting with russia and other nato members. i'm joined now by evelyn farkas, who was the deputy assistant secretary of defense for russia. thank you for being with us how real do you think this threat is? it’s do you think this threat is? it's very real- _ do you think this threat is? it's very real. about a week ago i published _ very real. about a week ago i published a _ very real. about a week ago i published a piece _ very real. about a week ago i published a piece in - very real. about a week ago i published a piece in defence i very real. about a week ago i - published a piece in defence one, an online defence _ published a piece in defence one, an online defence journal, saying - online defence journal, saying that there _ online defence journal, saying that there is about _ online defence journal, saying that there is about a 50% _ online defence journal, saying that there is about a 50% or more - online defence journal, saying that i there is about a 50% or more chance that putih _ there is about a 50% or more chance that putih is — there is about a 50% or more chance that putin is going _ there is about a 50% or more chance that putin is going to _ there is about a 50% or more chance that putin is going to invade. - that putin is going to invade. obviously— that putin is going to invade. obviously gets— that putin is going to invade. obviously gets higher. - that putin is going to invade. obviously gets higher. the . obviously gets higher. the indicators _ obviously gets higher. the indicators are _ obviously gets higher. the indicators are all— obviously gets higher. the indicators are all there. . obviously gets higher. the - indicators are all there. because we cannot— indicators are all there. because we cannot agree — indicators are all there. because we cannot agree on _ indicators are all there. because we cannot agree on fundamentals - indicators are all there. because we cannot agree on fundamentals and. indicators are all there. because we i cannot agree on fundamentals and the things— cannot agree on fundamentals and the things that _ cannot agree on fundamentals and the things that we — cannot agree on fundamentals and the things that we are _ cannot agree on fundamentals and the things that we are willing _ cannot agree on fundamentals and the things that we are willing to _ things that we are willing to negotiate _ things that we are willing to negotiate with— things that we are willing to negotiate with the - things that we are willing to negotiate with the west, i things that we are willing to . negotiate with the west, arms controi — negotiate with the west, arms control. that's— negotiate with the west, arms control. that's not— negotiate with the west, arms control. that's not what - negotiate with the west, arms i control. that's not what concerns russia _ control. that's not what concerns russia and — control. that's not what concerns russia and not _ control. that's not what concerns russia and not with _ control. that's not what concerns russia and not with her- control. that's not what concerns russia and not with her talk - control. that's not what concernsl russia and not with her talk about on the _ russia and not with her talk about on the airways _ russia and not with her talk about on the airways was _ russia and not with her talk about on the airways was of _ russia and not with her talk about on the airways was of its - russia and not with her talk about on the airways was of its all - russia and not with her talk about on the airways was of its all abouti on the airways was of its all about control over — on the airways was of its all about control over vladimir _ on the airways was of its all about control over vladimir putin - control over vladimir putin and sgueiching _ control over vladimir putin and squelching democracy- control over vladimir putin and squelching democracy in - control over vladimir putin and| squelching democracy in there, control over vladimir putin and - squelching democracy in there, what they think— squelching democracy in there, what they think is — squelching democracy in there, what they think is a — squelching democracy in there, what they think is a sphere _ squelching democracy in there, what they think is a sphere of— squelching democracy in there, what they think is a sphere of influence. l they think is a sphere of influence. the menstruation— they think is a sphere of influence. the menstruation you _ they think is a sphere of influence. the menstruation you are - they think is a sphere of influence. the menstruation you are part - they think is a sphere of influence. the menstruation you are part of l they think is a sphere of influence. . the menstruation you are part of was criticised for not doing enough to reverse the takeover in crimea in 2014. he did too little, too late. the you thinkjoe biden has learned from that? , ., ., ., , , from that? first of all i would push back on that _ from that? first of all i would push back on that because _ from that? first of all i would push back on that because the _ from that? first of all i would push back on that because the seizure i from that? first of all i would push| back on that because the seizure of crimea _ back on that because the seizure of crimea was — back on that because the seizure of crimea was overnight, _ back on that because the seizure of crimea was overnight, lightning - crimea was overnight, lightning fast _ crimea was overnight, lightning fast there _ crimea was overnight, lightning fast. there was _ crimea was overnight, lightning fast. there was very— crimea was overnight, lightning fast. there was very little - fast. there was very little opportunity _ fast. there was very little opportunity for _ fast. there was very little opportunity for the - fast. there was very little - opportunity for the ukrainians to resist _ opportunity for the ukrainians to resist and — opportunity for the ukrainians to resist. and once _ opportunity for the ukrainians to resist. and once they— opportunity for the ukrainians to resist. and once they were - opportunity for the ukrainians to - resist. and once they were encircled we realty— resist. and once they were encircled we really did — resist. and once they were encircled we really did not— resist. and once they were encircled we really did not want _ resist. and once they were encircled we really did not want them - resist. and once they were encircled we really did not want them to - we really did not want them to fight back, _ we really did not want them to fight back, they— we really did not want them to fight back, they would _ we really did not want them to fight back, they would have _ we really did not want them to fight back, they would have been- back, they would have been slaughtered. _ back, they would have been slaughtered. and _ back, they would have been slaughtered. and i- back, they would have been slaughtered. and i literallyl back, they would have been- slaughtered. and i literally went to bed at— slaughtered. and i literally went to bed at night— slaughtered. and i literally went to bed at night fearing _ slaughtered. and i literally went to bed at night fearing that _ slaughtered. and i literally went to bed at night fearing that that - slaughtered. and i literally went to| bed at night fearing that that would happen _ bed at night fearing that that would happen so — bed at night fearing that that would happen. so crimea _ bed at night fearing that that would happen. so crimea is _ bed at night fearing that that would happen. so crimea is one _ bed at night fearing that that would happen. so crimea is one thing - bed at night fearing that that would | happen. so crimea is one thing with the other— happen. so crimea is one thing with the other part — happen. so crimea is one thing with the other part is _ happen. so crimea is one thing with the other part is donbas. _ happen. so crimea is one thing with the other part is donbas. that- the other part is donbas. that war has continued _ the other part is donbas. that war has continued and _ the other part is donbas. that war has continued and we _ the other part is donbas. that war has continued and we might - the other part is donbas. that war has continued and we might havel the other part is donbas. that war- has continued and we might have done more but _ has continued and we might have done more but the _ has continued and we might have done more but the craniums _ has continued and we might have done more but the craniums have _ has continued and we might have done more but the craniums have taken- more but the craniums have taken back some — more but the craniums have taken back some territory _ more but the craniums have taken back some territory from - more but the craniums have taken back some territory from the - more but the craniums have takeni back some territory from the initial wave _ back some territory from the initial wave of— back some territory from the initial wave of thought _ back some territory from the initial wave of thought but _ back some territory from the initial wave of thought but to _ back some territory from the initial wave of thought but to answer- back some territory from the initial| wave of thought but to answer your initiat— wave of thought but to answer your initial question, _ wave of thought but to answer your initial question, yes, _ wave of thought but to answer your initial question, yes, i— wave of thought but to answer your initial question, yes, i believe - wave of thought but to answer your initial question, yes, i believe the i initial question, yes, i believe the by demonstration _ initial question, yes, i believe the by demonstration commitment i initial question, yes, i believe the - by demonstration commitment people i worked _ by demonstration commitment people i worked with— by demonstration commitment people i worked with in — by demonstration commitment people i worked with in the _ by demonstration commitment people i worked with in the obama _ worked with in the obama administration _ worked with in the obama administration they- worked with in the obama administration they learnl worked with in the obama - administration they learn from that experience — administration they learn from that experience and _ administration they learn from that experience and you _ administration they learn from that experience and you see _ administration they learn from that experience and you see a _ administration they learn from that experience and you see a real- administration they learn from that experience and you see a real solid front _ experience and you see a real solid front being — experience and you see a real solid front being built— experience and you see a real solid front being built with _ experience and you see a real solid front being built with europe. - experience and you see a real solid front being built with europe. it - experience and you see a real solid front being built with europe. it is. front being built with europe. it is not perfect — front being built with europe. it is not perfect. and _ front being built with europe. it is not perfect. and deterrence. - front being built with europe. it is not perfect. and deterrence. we i front being built with europe. it is . not perfect. and deterrence. we did not perfect. and deterrence. we did not focus _ not perfect. and deterrence. we did not focus as— not perfect. and deterrence. we did not focus as aggressively _ not perfect. and deterrence. we did not focus as aggressively on - not focus as aggressively on establishing _ not focus as aggressively on establishing deterrence - not focus as aggressively on - establishing deterrence vis—a—vis the kremlin _ establishing deterrence vis—a—vis the kremlin. this— establishing deterrence vis—a—vis the kremlin. this time _ establishing deterrence vis—a—vis the kremlin. this time around i. establishing deterrence vis—a—vis . the kremlin. this time around i see them _ the kremlin. this time around i see them very— the kremlin. this time around i see them very clearly— the kremlin. this time around i see them very clearly doing _ the kremlin. this time around i see them very clearly doing that. - them very clearly doing that. left-wing _ them very clearly doing that. left—wing and _ them very clearly doing that. left—wing and marianne. - them very clearly doing that. l left—wing and marianne. they them very clearly doing that. - left—wing and marianne. they are clearly sanctions in the works and you would expect that that is why secretary of state is travelling to europe to make sure everyone in the same page. but it is a delicate question because you are trying to deter russia without provoking them. that's right and sent his only work to a point. i know we have for many years and decades now escalated sanctions against putin and russia. he does not care about his people. it does not matter to him that any of his residence would be subjected to any paint anyway. but what really is a test year forjoe biden is that he has to put together nato and our european allies against putin, who has this moscow is reestablishing the soviet union and the big goal is to go across the west, through europe and dominate over everybody. and he was aided and abetted the last five years by donald trump, by splitting our alliances, staying at everything and giving food and she ran to do whatever he wants and here is the consequence of that. i ran to do whatever he wants and here is the consequence of that.— is the consequence of that. i want ou to is the consequence of that. i want you to listen _ is the consequence of that. i want you to listen to _ is the consequence of that. i want you to listen to what _ is the consequence of that. i want you to listen to what the - is the consequence of that. i want you to listen to what the german | is the consequence of that. i want i you to listen to what the german for mr had to say. she has been in moscow today speaking to sergei lavrov talking about the nato rules the russians will not set aside. have a listen. translation: .,, have a listen. translation: ., , have a listen. translation: ., translation: those common rules of the foundation — translation: those common rules of the foundation of _ translation: those common rules of the foundation of our _ translation: those common rules of the foundation of our common - the foundation of our common project. forjermaine there the basis of our existence and therefore we have no other option but to defend those common rules even if this means paying a high economic price. this means paying a high economic rice. . �* , this means paying a high economic rice. ., �* , , ., price. that's interesting with a hi . h price. that's interesting with a high economic _ price. that's interesting with a high economic price _ price. that's interesting with a high economic price because l price. that's interesting with a - high economic price because those of us in the uk who remember boris johnson trying to rally the europeans around sanctions post salisbury, we note that very quickly if the europeans let the sanction slide. the germans do have leverage over nor extreme to but do you trust the europeans will stand squarely behind ukraine? it’s the europeans will stand squarely behind ukraine?— behind ukraine? it's actually difficult for _ behind ukraine? it's actually difficult for so _ behind ukraine? it's actually difficult for so they - behind ukraine? it's actually difficult for so they have - behind ukraine? it's actually - difficult for so they have leverage on the _ difficult for so they have leverage on the one hand but so does boudin on them _ on the one hand but so does boudin on them because if he cuts off the a-s on them because if he cuts off the gas applies to europe, he can inflict — gas applies to europe, he can inflict all— gas applies to europe, he can inflict all kinds of damage. as far as i inflict all kinds of damage. as far as i can _ inflict all kinds of damage. as far as i can see, most of the potentially effective sanctions that were on _ potentially effective sanctions that were on the table are slowly, subtly and quietly— were on the table are slowly, subtly and quietly being taken off the table — and quietly being taken off the table. we may know and not care because — table. we may know and not care because we — table. we may know and not care because we are having our other petty— because we are having our other petty rows — because we are having our other petty rows of other things that we will get _ petty rows of other things that we will get onto but in the meantime, putin— will get onto but in the meantime, putin does— will get onto but in the meantime, putin does watch and draw conclusions. he watch what happened in afghanistan and drew conclusions and china _ in afghanistan and drew conclusions and china watched and did that and the conclusions they draw is it for all the _ the conclusions they draw is it for all the talking all the outrage, in the end. — all the talking all the outrage, in the end. it — all the talking all the outrage, in the end, it looks to them as if they can push— the end, it looks to them as if they can push and push and push with impunity— can push and push and push with impunity to a point. because we don't have — impunity to a point. because we don't have the appetite to stand up to them _ don't have the appetite to stand up to them. we don't have the appetite to stand up to them. ~ ., ., ~ don't have the appetite to stand up to them. ~ ., ., ,, , , to them. we have tank drills, summer drills on the — to them. we have tank drills, summer drills on the border, _ to them. we have tank drills, summer drills on the border, evelyn, _ to them. we have tank drills, summer drills on the border, evelyn, and - to them. we have tank drills, summer drills on the border, evelyn, and we i drills on the border, evelyn, and we have seen russians packing up quite demonstrably the consulate and the embassy in kyiv for all the world to see. is that real? and what does the ukrainian government do about itpreparations can they may? it is itpreparations can they may? it is real. in itpreparations can they may? it is real- in the _ itpreparations can they may? it is real. in the preparations they can make _ real. in the preparations they can make him — real. in the preparations they can make him a — real. in the preparations they can make him a first _ real. in the preparations they can make him a first need _ real. in the preparations they can make him a first need to- real. in the preparations they can make him a first need to prepare| make him a first need to prepare people~ — make him a first need to prepare people. they— make him a first need to prepare people. they were _ make him a first need to prepare people. they were not _ make him a first need to prepare people. they were not doing - make him a first need to prepare| people. they were not doing such make him a first need to prepare . people. they were not doing such a good _ people. they were not doing such a good job— people. they were not doing such a good job of— people. they were not doing such a good job of that _ people. they were not doing such a good job of that last _ people. they were not doing such a good job of that last week. - people. they were not doing such a good job of that last week. it - people. they were not doing such a good job of that last week. it was . good job of that last week. it was odd, _ good job of that last week. it was odd. but— good job of that last week. it was odd. but the _ good job of that last week. it was odd, but the government - good job of that last week. it was odd, but the government was - good job of that last week. it was i odd, but the government was trying to tamp _ odd, but the government was trying to tamp down — odd, but the government was trying to tamp down people _ odd, but the government was trying to tamp down people expressing - to tamp down people expressing concern~ — to tamp down people expressing concern~ they— to tamp down people expressing concern. they have _ to tamp down people expressing concern. they have now - to tamp down people expressingj concern. they have now changed to tamp down people expressing - concern. they have now changed that approach. _ concern. they have now changed that approach. and — concern. they have now changed that approach. and they— concern. they have now changed that approach, and they are _ concern. they have now changed that approach, and they are ramping - concern. they have now changed that approach, and they are ramping up i approach, and they are ramping up certainly— approach, and they are ramping up certainly on — approach, and they are ramping up certainly on the _ approach, and they are ramping up certainly on the military— approach, and they are ramping up certainly on the military front - approach, and they are ramping up certainly on the military front to i certainly on the military front to include — certainly on the military front to include civilians _ certainly on the military front to include civilians supporting - certainly on the military front to include civilians supporting thel include civilians supporting the essential— include civilians supporting the essential attempt _ include civilians supporting the essential attempt to— include civilians supporting the essential attempt to defend i include civilians supporting the . essential attempt to defend their territory~ — essential attempt to defend their territory. they— essential attempt to defend their territory. they are _ essential attempt to defend their territory. they are also _ essential attempt to defend their territory. they are also starting l essential attempt to defend theiri territory. they are also starting to prepare _ territory. they are also starting to prepare to — territory. they are also starting to prepare to fight _ territory. they are also starting to prepare to fight unanswered - territory. they are also starting to prepare to fight unanswered and i territory. they are also starting to| prepare to fight unanswered and if they need — prepare to fight unanswered and if they need to, _ prepare to fight unanswered and if they need to, which _ prepare to fight unanswered and if they need to, which according - prepare to fight unanswered and if they need to, which according to l they need to, which according to some media _ they need to, which according to some media reports, _ they need to, which according to some media reports, the - they need to, which according to some media reports, the us- they need to, which according to some media reports, the us and they need to, which according to - some media reports, the us and other countries _ some media reports, the us and other countries might— some media reports, the us and other countries might be _ some media reports, the us and other countries might be willing _ some media reports, the us and other countries might be willing to— some media reports, the us and other countries might be willing to help - countries might be willing to help them _ countries might be willing to help them with— countries might be willing to help them with which _ countries might be willing to help them with which i— countries might be willing to help them with which i would - countries might be willing to help. them with which i would encourage countries might be willing to help - them with which i would encourage us to say— them with which i would encourage us to say that _ them with which i would encourage us to say that out — them with which i would encourage us to say that out loud _ them with which i would encourage us to say that out loud publicly _ to say that out loud publicly because _ to say that out loud publicly because that's _ to say that out loud publicly because that's another - to say that out loud publicly - because that's another potential way to deter— because that's another potential way to deter the — because that's another potential way to deter the kremlin. _ because that's another potential way to deter the kremlin. but _ because that's another potential way to deter the kremlin. but right- because that's another potential way to deter the kremlin. but right now. to deter the kremlin. but right now we are _ to deter the kremlin. but right now we are irr— to deter the kremlin. but right now we are in a — to deter the kremlin. but right now we are in a very— to deter the kremlin. but right now we are in a very dangerous- to deter the kremlin. but right now| we are in a very dangerous situation and i_ we are in a very dangerous situation and i think— we are in a very dangerous situation and i think what _ we are in a very dangerous situation and i think what the _ we are in a very dangerous situation and i think what the german - we are in a very dangerous situation| and i think what the german foreign mirrister— and i think what the german foreign minister said — and i think what the german foreign minister said there _ and i think what the german foreign minister said there is _ and i think what the german foreign minister said there is really- minister said there is really important _ minister said there is really important because - minister said there is really important because this - minister said there is really important because this is l minister said there is really. important because this is not minister said there is really- important because this is not about ukraine _ important because this is not about ukraine or— important because this is not about ukraine or europe _ important because this is not about ukraine or europe necessarily, - important because this is not about ukraine or europe necessarily, this| ukraine or europe necessarily, this is about— ukraine or europe necessarily, this is about the international - ukraine or europe necessarily, this is about the international order. i ukraine or europe necessarily, this| is about the international order. we set up _ is about the international order. we set up this— is about the international order. we set up this whole _ is about the international order. we set up this whole system _ is about the international order. we set up this whole system after- is about the international order. we set up this whole system after we . set up this whole system after we said we _ set up this whole system after we said we said we _ set up this whole system after we said we said we don't _ set up this whole system after we said we said we don't want - set up this whole system after we said we said we don't want any. set up this whole system after we i said we said we don't want any more wars over— wars over borders and sub article two of— wars over borders and sub article two of the — wars over borders and sub article two of the un _ wars over borders and sub article two of the un charter— wars over borders and sub article two of the un charter sets - wars over borders and sub article two of the un charter sets downi wars over borders and sub article . two of the un charter sets down that the trorders— two of the un charter sets down that the borders of— two of the un charter sets down that the borders of sovereign _ two of the un charter sets down that the borders of sovereign states - two of the un charter sets down that the borders of sovereign states are l the borders of sovereign states are sacrosanct~ — the borders of sovereign states are sacrosanct. and _ the borders of sovereign states are sacrosanct. and when _ the borders of sovereign states are sacrosanct. and when iraq - the borders of sovereign states are| sacrosanct. and when iraq marched into kuwait — sacrosanct. and when iraq marched into kuwait and _ sacrosanct. and when iraq marched into kuwait and tried _ sacrosanct. and when iraq marched into kuwait and tried to _ sacrosanct. and when iraq marched into kuwait and tried to annex - into kuwait and tried to annex kuwait— into kuwait and tried to annex kuwait national— into kuwait and tried to annex kuwait national committee . into kuwait and tried to annex - kuwait national committee rallied and told _ kuwait national committee rallied and told a — kuwait national committee rallied and told a rock— kuwait national committee rallied and told a rock that _ kuwait national committee rallied and told a rock that was - kuwait national committee ralliedi and told a rock that was noticeable and told a rock that was noticeable and give _ and told a rock that was noticeable and give ultimatum _ and told a rock that was noticeable and give ultimatum and _ and told a rock that was noticeable and give ultimatum and now- and told a rock that was noticeable and give ultimatum and now we i and told a rock that was noticeable | and give ultimatum and now we are dealing _ and give ultimatum and now we are dealing with — and give ultimatum and now we are dealing with nuclear— and give ultimatum and now we are dealing with nuclear power- and give ultimatum and now we are dealing with nuclear power so - and give ultimatum and now we are dealing with nuclear power so it's . dealing with nuclear power so it's harder— dealing with nuclear power so it's harder trut— dealing with nuclear power so it's harder but it _ dealing with nuclear power so it's harder but it does _ dealing with nuclear power so it's harder but it does not _ dealing with nuclear power so it's harder but it does not mean - dealing with nuclear power so it's harder but it does not mean we l harder but it does not mean we should — harder but it does not mean we should not— harder but it does not mean we should not try— harder but it does not mean we should not tryjust _ harder but it does not mean we should not tryjust as _ harder but it does not mean we should not tryjust as hard - harder but it does not mean we . should not tryjust as hard because it's essentiatty _ should not tryjust as hard because it's essentially the _ should not tryjust as hard because it's essentially the rules _ should not tryjust as hard because it's essentially the rules —based i it's essentially the rules —based order— it's essentially the rules —based order that — it's essentially the rules —based order that is _ it's essentially the rules —based order that is at _ it's essentially the rules —based order that is at stake _ it's essentially the rules —based order that is at stake here. - order that is at stake here. interesting _ order that is at stake here. interesting because - order that is at stake here. interesting because the - order that is at stake here. - interesting because the defence secretary here has sent to ukraine these short range anti—tank missiles and he was making the point earlier in the which i thought was really interesting in an article in the times that when russia talks about being surrounded by nato, in fact only five of the 30 countries within nato actually neighbour russia and when you look at it geographically, is about 1/16 of its border. yes, and actually — is about 1/16 of its border. yes, and actually one _ is about 1/16 of its border. yes, and actually one block- is about 1/16 of its border. yes, and actually one block is - is about 1/16 of its border. yes, and actually one block is a - is about 1/16 of its border. yes, and actually one block is a lot l and actually one block is a lot larger— and actually one block is a lot larger than all the others combined, so i larger than all the others combined, so i think— larger than all the others combined, so i think what is even clearer is not only— so i think what is even clearer is not only the _ so i think what is even clearer is not only the difference in size of david _ not only the difference in size of david and — not only the difference in size of david and goliath here but who is potentially the aggressor and who has no _ potentially the aggressor and who has no interest in being remotely aggressive towards russia. the aggression is all on one side and i have _ aggression is all on one side and i have spoken to very senior distinguished members of parliament and a lot— distinguished members of parliament and a lot of military service behind them _ and a lot of military service behind them who— and a lot of military service behind them who are extremely frustrated watching _ them who are extremely frustrated watching this and watching and sensing — watching this and watching and sensing a complacency in the united kingdom _ sensing a complacency in the united kingdom and indeed across europe about— kingdom and indeed across europe about this — kingdom and indeed across europe about this and some of them telling me for— about this and some of them telling me for months the kind of troops that putin — me for months the kind of troops that putin has been moving to the trorders_ that putin has been moving to the borders and not there to sort of defend — borders and not there to sort of defend anything. they are aggressive troops _ defend anything. they are aggressive troops of— defend anything. they are aggressive troops of the kind that take over ftights _ troops of the kind that take over flights owns and stuff like that. there _ flights owns and stuff like that. there is — flights owns and stuff like that. there is also the cyber attacks, the co-ordinate — there is also the cyber attacks, the co—ordinate things that shut down electricity— co—ordinate things that shut down electricity supplies of the ukraine and the _ electricity supplies of the ukraine and the ukrainians know what the rush are _ and the ukrainians know what the rush are capable of. a documentary years— rush are capable of. a documentary years ago— rush are capable of. a documentary years ago about a hunger engineered genocide _ years ago about a hunger engineered genocide basically engineered by statin— genocide basically engineered by stalin that killed millions, so they know— stalin that killed millions, so they know what russia is capable of when there _ know what russia is capable of when there is _ know what russia is capable of when there is a _ know what russia is capable of when there is a very aggressive manner to there is a very aggressive manner to the helm _ there is a very aggressive manner to the helm and some people in parliament here do but they don't sit leadership in the west care enough — sit leadership in the west care enou:h. , , ., sit leadership in the west care enou:h. , .~ enough. interesting point you make with the makeup _ enough. interesting point you make with the makeup of _ enough. interesting point you make with the makeup of the _ enough. interesting point you make with the makeup of the army - enough. interesting point you make with the makeup of the army that l enough. interesting point you make with the makeup of the army that is stationed out there and the expertise that they have. there is political risk here forjoe biden because he is not come out of the afghanistan affair with flying colours. there was a lot of anger here in europe about that and yet i'm not sure how he such as a win out of this. how does he go forward and not look weak?— and not look weak? well, the right decision to — and not look weak? well, the right decision to get _ and not look weak? well, the right decision to get out _ and not look weak? well, the right decision to get out of _ and not look weak? well, the right decision to get out of afghanistan | decision to get out of afghanistan and poor execution no question but evelyn has it right. we need to stand up to putin. joe biden and the us has to rally our european allies, relic nato to do just that. we cannot allow putin to act like the rogue actor he is behaving like right now. nuclear weapons or not. he is going to keep pushing and pushing and pushing, and he is doing his campaign propaganda. he is also doing his campaign of espionage, to doing his campaign of espionage, to do something he does with hacks and the us, here, they water supply, electrical grids, on and on in the week let him go all of this, the larger click of week of the more he tries. so there does need to be a line and it needs to be hard and fast and on this one, putin needs to be backed down.— fast and on this one, putin needs to be backed down. evelyn came a final to you. the — be backed down. evelyn came a final to you, the meeting _ be backed down. evelyn came a final to you, the meeting on _ be backed down. evelyn came a final to you, the meeting on friday - to you, the meeting on friday which only appeared on the calendar today with sergei lavrov in geneva, is that the last chance saloon? it with sergei lavrov in geneva, is that the last chance saloon? it may be. it that the last chance saloon? it may be- it may — that the last chance saloon? it may be- it may be- _ that the last chance saloon? it may be. it may be. those _ that the last chance saloon? it may be. it may be. those of— that the last chance saloon? it may be. it may be. those of us - that the last chance saloon? it may be. it may be. those of us who - be. it may be. those of us who follow — be. it may be. those of us who follow the kremlin _ be. it may be. those of us who follow the kremlin really- be. it may be. those of us whol follow the kremlin really closely know _ follow the kremlin really closely know that — follow the kremlin really closely know that putin _ follow the kremlin really closely know that putin lines _ follow the kremlin really closely know that putin lines everything follow the kremlin really closely. know that putin lines everything up so that— know that putin lines everything up so that he — know that putin lines everything up so that he can _ know that putin lines everything up so that he can and _ know that putin lines everything up so that he can and has _ know that putin lines everything up so that he can and has lots - know that putin lines everything up so that he can and has lots of - so that he can and has lots of options _ so that he can and has lots of options. then _ so that he can and has lots of options. then he _ so that he can and has lots of options. then he makes - so that he can and has lots of options. then he makes this| options. then he makes this decision at the _ options. then he makes this decision at the last— options. then he makes this decision at the last minute _ options. then he makes this decision at the last minute to _ options. then he makes this decision at the last minute to most _ options. then he makes this decision at the last minute to most of - options. then he makes this decision at the last minute to most of this - at the last minute to most of this may be _ at the last minute to most of this may be the — at the last minute to most of this may be the last _ at the last minute to most of this may be the last chance, - at the last minute to most of this may be the last chance, maybe l at the last minute to most of this - may be the last chance, maybe when they tell _ may be the last chance, maybe when they tell us, — may be the last chance, maybe when they tell us, you _ may be the last chance, maybe when they tell us, you know _ may be the last chance, maybe when they tell us, you know it was - may be the last chance, maybe when they tell us, you know it was a - may be the last chance, maybe when they tell us, you know it was a very l they tell us, you know it was a very hard _ they tell us, you know it was a very hard to tell— they tell us, you know it was a very hard to tell and _ they tell us, you know it was a very hard to tell and one _ they tell us, you know it was a very hard to tell and one thing _ they tell us, you know it was a very hard to tell and one thing i- they tell us, you know it was a very hard to tell and one thing i will- hard to tell and one thing i will tell you — hard to tell and one thing i will tell you is putin— hard to tell and one thing i will tell you is putin is a _ hard to tell and one thing i will tell you is putin is a risk- hard to tell and one thing i will tell you is putin is a risk takeri tell you is putin is a risk taker and _ tell you is putin is a risk taker and he — tell you is putin is a risk taker and he is _ tell you is putin is a risk taker and he is an— tell you is putin is a risk taker and he is an opportunist- tell you is putin is a risk taker and he is an opportunist and i tell you is putin is a risk taker. and he is an opportunist and he tell you is putin is a risk taker- and he is an opportunist and he sees an opportunity— and he is an opportunist and he sees an opportunity now— and he is an opportunist and he sees an opportunity now and _ and he is an opportunist and he sees an opportunity now and he _ and he is an opportunist and he sees an opportunity now and he thinks - an opportunity now and he thinks relatively— an opportunity now and he thinks relatively speaking _ an opportunity now and he thinks relatively speaking he _ an opportunity now and he thinks relatively speaking he is - an opportunity now and he thinks relatively speaking he is strong . relatively speaking he is strong enough — relatively speaking he is strong enough for— relatively speaking he is strong enough for this— relatively speaking he is strong enough for this and _ relatively speaking he is strong enough for this and that - relatively speaking he is strong enough for this and that we - relatively speaking he is strong| enough for this and that we the relatively speaking he is strong - enough for this and that we the west are weak— enough for this and that we the west are weak and — enough for this and that we the west are weak and are _ enough for this and that we the west are weak and are divided. _ enough for this and that we the west are weak and are divided. i— enough for this and that we the west are weak and are divided. i hope - are weak and are divided. i hope we show— are weak and are divided. i hope we show him _ are weak and are divided. i hope we show him that — are weak and are divided. i hope we show him that he _ are weak and are divided. i hope we show him that he is— are weak and are divided. i hope we show him that he is wrong. - are weak and are divided. i hope we show him that he is wrong. 0k, - show him that he is wrong. 0k, anthony is _ show him that he is wrong. 0k, anthony is is — show him that he is wrong. anthony is is travelling to key event with focus on that as we have the meetings and fold and thank you forjoining us, evelyn. mi5 has confirmed the man who held a jewish congregation hostage in a texas synagogue this weekend was on a terror watchlist here in the uk. malik faisal akram, from blackburn in lancashire, was shot dead by federal agents after an 11—hour siege. he was being watched by the intelligence agencies in 2020, but was taken off the "active list" last year. in the united states, the fbi has warned "faith—based communities, they will likely continue to be targets of violence by both domestic extremists and those inspired by foreign terrorists." they have been advised to reasses and revaluate their security. jeffrey cohen was one of the hostages who escaped the siege on saturday. he's been telling cbs news what happened. he said he was going to shoot each of us, put a bullet in each of us, and that was the first time that he said that. and then, just a few moments later, he said, "i'm going to make you get down on your knees. get down on your knees." at that point, i reached in my chair and i got up like this. and i know i stared right at him, and i may have shaken my head like this, i don't recall, but i know i mouthed "no". and just that glare was the first time that we had shown any aggression toward him. we weren't subservient at that point. he started backing away immediately, and he went and sat down. now, i didn't see him put his gun down, but i did see him go to pour some soda. and when he did that, rabbi charlie picked up the chair, threw it, yelled "run". i didn't see the chair go until i was running. i tripped as i was going out, and we've got a hedgerow there, and i thought that i was going to go through the hedgerow. i started climbing under it. you fell to the ground and had to get up. and were you worried that he was going to catch you and kill you? i mean, yes, a little bit, but i was more concentrated on getting through that hedgerow. again, he followed us out. other faith—based unity to otherfaith—based unity to pay other faith—based unity to pay for that training and it paid off of the minutes to get near to the door and away from the gunman. he was very clearly escaped and were not released. i understand that people move on and off active lists and it is very difficult for the intelligence agencies to keep track of thousands of people and we know how difficult it is a hammy agency need to put on these people 20 47 to keep track of it but what i cannot understand is if you were on this list and if you are moving on and off the list, how on earth are you not on a no—fly list? off the list, how on earth are you not on a no-fly list?— not on a no-fly list? that is extraordinary. _ not on a no-fly list? that is extraordinary. i— not on a no-fly list? that is extraordinary. i have - not on a no-fly list? that is extraordinary. i have to - not on a no-fly list? that is. extraordinary. i have to start not on a no-fly list? that is - extraordinary. i have to start by saying _ extraordinary. i have to start by saying that from my encounters and from what _ saying that from my encounters and from what i've read about our security— from what i've read about our security services, they are utterly heroic _ security services, they are utterly heroic and — security services, they are utterly heroic and it's unbelievable how much _ heroic and it's unbelievable how much they do manage to thwart. and on this— much they do manage to thwart. and on this occasion, i have a suspicion that perhaps — on this occasion, i have a suspicion that perhaps this man realised that he was _ that perhaps this man realised that he was not — that perhaps this man realised that he was not going to get very far in the uk, _ he was not going to get very far in the uk, that we had clocked him and he was _ the uk, that we had clocked him and he was being watched and analysed in a sort _ he was being watched and analysed in a sort of— he was being watched and analysed in a sort of gave up his ambitions and then that's — a sort of gave up his ambitions and then that's perhaps in this speculation of mine but maybe when he came off the list and later on he may have discovered that he was perhaps easier for him in his own mind _ perhaps easier for him in his own mind at least to go to the us and try something there. it is not that he managed to get on there but what people close to him that seem to be saving _ people close to him that seem to be saving out _ people close to him that seem to be saving out is that in the end there are more — saving out is that in the end there are more concerned about him having mental— are more concerned about him having mental health problems than sort of extremist _ mental health problems than sort of extremist ambitions that he may be very closely aligned at times. but perhaps— very closely aligned at times. but perhaps that's where the i was off the bail— perhaps that's where the i was off the ball because he started looking like a _ the ball because he started looking like a man— the ball because he started looking like a man who was troubled and not a man— like a man who was troubled and not a man with a — like a man who was troubled and not a man with a specific political axe to grind _ a man with a specific political axe to grind and maybe that's where he felt the _ to grind and maybe that's where he felt the cracks. so to grind and maybe that's where he felt the cracks.— felt the cracks. so often that sort of background — felt the cracks. so often that sort of background is _ felt the cracks. so often that sort of background is always - felt the cracks. so often that sort of background is always in - felt the cracks. so often that sort of background is always in the . of background is always in the report people who were targeted by these groups. if you are travelling to texas is not difficult to get a gun but does it surprise you though that he was able to move so freely? know. it is easier to get a gun in texas than it is to vote. there are basically... gun laws in texas is an oxymoron now. i doubt he went through what little process they have their he probably bought it on the street, went on the street, went online or craigslist and got a gun but it still shocking to everyone parliament point here they can get on a plane, get off the plane, bought a gun and went to the synagogue closest to the dallas—fort worth airport and it was only what he was doing. d0 worth airport and it was only what he was doing-— he was doing. do you feel uncomfortable _ he was doing. do you feel uncomfortable that - he was doing. do you feel uncomfortable that the i he was doing. do you feel - uncomfortable that the federal government is now telling faith—based groups that they need to be careful, reassess their security equipment does it feel a little bit is that they are putting the onus on them when of course they are the victims? , �* ., . , , victims? yes. but unfortunately this has been going _ victims? yes. but unfortunately this has been going on _ victims? yes. but unfortunately this has been going on for— victims? yes. but unfortunately this has been going on for years - victims? yes. but unfortunately this has been going on for years here - victims? yes. but unfortunately this has been going on for years here in| has been going on for years here in the us. that there are security drills, there are security personnel in all kinds of houses of worship. the church i thin inbox and i will not name, they have very nice people in the interrogation front and back for that very purpose, which is shocking but that's been true for years. we the marathon bombing in boston. so so much of security and everything else keeps getting delegated and relegated down the chain to the very people who could be the potential targets of these things and was right for the government and its agencies to warn americans about these challenges, there should be more help for all of them because the reason the rabbi and the people who attended the service with him were able to get out they get themselves out. and it was because of the training they had had all these years so that tells you everything sadly about what's going on in the us right now. federal agents in talks and discussions with law enforcement here in this country and they will get to the bottom of it, who supported him and where he was travelling. this is context on the bbc. still to come to britons are retiring early them before it is because of the pandemic. let's look at some of the other stories making headlines today. restrictions brought in to curb the spread of omicron in scotland are to be lifted on monday. the first minister, nicola sturgeon, said recent figures showing a fall in infections had given confidence that the country had "turned the corner" on the current wave of coronavirus. across the uk, the latest figures show a further a38 people have died within 28 days of testing positive — the highest daily number since february last year. a man has admitted exploiting a vulnerable worker who was kept in a freezing shed for a0 years. the victim splet with no lighting or heating at a caravan park in cumbria. he was only discovered after a tip—off to a confidential hotline. 56—year—old peter swailes will be sentenced next month. a man is going on trialfor killing a six—year—old boy in peterborough. the hillbilly was told the man had been exhibiting a great interest in the subject of child murder. —— the old bailey. our wages are failing to keep pace with the rise in inflation, at a time when there is a squeeze on the cost of living. but there was some good news on the uk economy today — unemployment is falling, and job vacancies are at a record high. the chancellor, rishi sunak, had this to stay about the end of year figures. well, today's figures show that ourjobs market is thriving, with record numbers of people in work. and this comes on the back of last week's news that our economy grew faster than people were expecting and is now bigger than it was before the pandemic. that's testament to the grit and determination of british people and businesses and the actions of this government to support our economy. when you dig a little deeper into the job figures today, there's another intriguing detail. almost 460,000 people have left the workforce since the pandemic began here in the uk, the majority of them older workers. and if you include people over the age of 64, that number goes up to 700,000. it's a similar picture in the united states — 70% of those who have left the workforce since the beginning of the pandemic are over the age of 55. there was some polling in the pandemic in which three in ten older workers on front i believe there was a 50% chance they would lose their jobs so many of them got out in good time but actually look at the vacancies, there are plenty ofjobs for them. vacancies, there are plenty of “obs for them. ~ , . , ., vacancies, there are plenty of “obs forthem. ~ , ., vacancies, there are plenty of “obs forthem. ~ , . , ., ., for them. miserable for those who feel they have _ for them. miserable for those who feel they have no _ for them. miserable for those who feel they have no choice _ for them. miserable for those who feel they have no choice but - for them. miserable for those who feel they have no choice but i - feel they have no choice but i suspect— feel they have no choice but i suspect what's happening here is many have reached the stage in life where _ many have reached the stage in life where there is a combination of having — where there is a combination of having had to pause over the last 18 months and maybe scaled out and maybe _ months and maybe scaled out and maybe realise they don't need quite as much— maybe realise they don't need quite as much money to live on a maybe realise _ as much money to live on a maybe realise they— as much money to live on a maybe realise they can move out of the most _ realise they can move out of the most expensive big cities and all that and — most expensive big cities and all that and retire early if you like and take — that and retire early if you like and take up something else that's always— and take up something else that's always been interesting to them and perhaps— always been interesting to them and perhaps a _ always been interesting to them and perhaps a lot of them have included why go— perhaps a lot of them have included why go back to that rat race and why go back— why go back to that rat race and why go back to _ why go back to that rat race and why go back to that mad treadmill that they were — go back to that mad treadmill that they were on before? and for them it may be _ they were on before? and for them it may be a _ they were on before? and for them it may be a very good lifestyle choice and act _ may be a very good lifestyle choice and act as — may be a very good lifestyle choice and act as if some of us and i'm 55 myself, _ and act as if some of us and i'm 55 myself, i hope to be active intellectually and in terms of career— intellectually and in terms of career for a good many years again and the _ career for a good many years again and the idea that is possible does not mean — and the idea that is possible does not mean it is desirable remotely. hold that— not mean it is desirable remotely. hold that thought because one of the problems is the older 50s ruled themselves out of applying and are put off by the language used in advertisements. one insurance company is addressing that was no longer putting energetic or enthusiastic applicants with supply. andy briggs is the ceo of the phoenix group — he also happens to be the government's business champion for older workers. limit combat of the innocent but first i_ limit combat of the innocent but first i would _ limit combat of the innocent but first i would say— limit combat of the innocent but first i would say there _ limit combat of the innocent but first i would say there are - limit combat of the innocent but. first i would say there are 800,000 people _ first i would say there are 800,000 people aged — first i would say there are 800,000 people aged over— first i would say there are 800,000 people aged over 50 _ first i would say there are 800,000 people aged over 50 in _ first i would say there are 800,000 people aged over 50 in the - first i would say there are 800,000 people aged over 50 in the uk thati people aged over 50 in the uk that are actively— people aged over 50 in the uk that are actively seeking _ people aged over 50 in the uk that are actively seeking work- people aged over 50 in the uk that are actively seeking work or - people aged over 50 in the uk that are actively seeking work or would | are actively seeking work or would rather— are actively seeking work or would rather be — are actively seeking work or would rather be in — are actively seeking work or would rather be in work, _ are actively seeking work or would rather be in work, so _ are actively seeking work or would rather be in work, so well - are actively seeking work or would rather be in work, so well as - rather be in work, so well as you set a _ rather be in work, so well as you set a number— rather be in work, so well as you set a number people _ rather be in work, so well as you set a number people have - rather be in work, so well as you set a number people have made| rather be in work, so well as you . set a number people have made the choice _ set a number people have made the choice not _ set a number people have made the choice not to— set a number people have made the choice not to be _ set a number people have made the choice not to be in— set a number people have made the choice not to be in work and - set a number people have made the choice not to be in work and that's l choice not to be in work and that's fine, _ choice not to be in work and that's fine, there's— choice not to be in work and that's fine, there's not— choice not to be in work and that's fine, there's not a _ choice not to be in work and that's fine, there's not a lot _ choice not to be in work and that's fine, there's not a lot that - choice not to be in work and that's fine, there's not a lot that would l fine, there's not a lot that would like to— fine, there's not a lot that would like to be — fine, there's not a lot that would like to be in— fine, there's not a lot that would like to be in works _ fine, there's not a lot that would like to be in works of— fine, there's not a lot that would like to be in works of at - fine, there's not a lot that would like to be in works of at this - fine, there's not a lot that would i like to be in works of at this group we are the — like to be in works of at this group we are the longest _ like to be in works of at this group we are the longest term _ like to be in works of at this group we are the longest term savings . like to be in works of at this group . we are the longest term savings and retirement— we are the longest term savings and retirement business— we are the longest term savings and retirement business and _ we are the longest term savings and retirement business and we - we are the longest term savings and retirement business and we are - we are the longest term savings and retirement business and we are very passionate _ retirement business and we are very passionate that _ retirement business and we are very passionate that our— retirement business and we are very passionate that our workforce - retirement business and we are very passionate that our workforce be - passionate that our workforce be represented _ passionate that our workforce be represented if— passionate that our workforce be represented if of _ passionate that our workforce be represented if of our _ passionate that our workforce be represented if of our customersl passionate that our workforce be. represented if of our customers in the communities— represented if of our customers in the communities in— represented if of our customers in the communities in which - represented if of our customers in the communities in which we - represented if of our customers ml the communities in which we work. represented if of our customers in - the communities in which we work. so as we _ the communities in which we work. so as we look— the communities in which we work. so as we look at— the communities in which we work. so as we look at recruiting _ the communities in which we work. so as we look at recruiting people - the communities in which we work. so as we look at recruiting people we - as we look at recruiting people we are trying — as we look at recruiting people we are trying to — as we look at recruiting people we are trying to get _ as we look at recruiting people we are trying to get a _ as we look at recruiting people we are trying to get a very— as we look at recruiting people we are trying to get a very diverse - are trying to get a very diverse workforce _ are trying to get a very diverse workforce across _ are trying to get a very diverse workforce across our _ are trying to get a very diversej workforce across our business. are trying to get a very diverse - workforce across our business. what are research— workforce across our business. what are research tells _ workforce across our business. what are research tells us _ workforce across our business. what are research tells us is _ workforce across our business. what are research tells us is actually- are research tells us is actually the language _ are research tells us is actually the language you _ are research tells us is actually the language you use - are research tells us is actually the language you use can - are research tells us is actually| the language you use can often are research tells us is actually- the language you use can often put people _ the language you use can often put people off, — the language you use can often put people off, so _ the language you use can often put people off. so we _ the language you use can often put people off, so we have _ the language you use can often put people off, so we have stopped - the language you use can often put . people off, so we have stopped using words _ people off, so we have stopped using words like _ people off, so we have stopped using words like energetic _ people off, so we have stopped using words like energetic or— people off, so we have stopped using words like energetic or innovative - words like energetic or innovative in our— words like energetic or innovative in our recruitment _ words like energetic or innovative in our recruitment ads _ words like energetic or innovative in our recruitment ads and - words like energetic or innovative in our recruitment ads and is - words like energetic or innovative in our recruitment ads and is noti in our recruitment ads and is not the over— in our recruitment ads and is not the over 50s— in our recruitment ads and is not the over 50s are _ in our recruitment ads and is not the over 50s are not _ in our recruitment ads and is not the over 50s are not energetic. in our recruitment ads and is not| the over 50s are not energetic or innovative — the over 50s are not energetic or innovative come _ the over 50s are not energetic or innovative come very— the over 50s are not energetic or innovative come very much - the over 50s are not energetic or innovative come very much are, i the over 50s are not energetic or. innovative come very much are, but it's the _ innovative come very much are, but it's the impact— innovative come very much are, but it's the impact as _ innovative come very much are, but it's the impact as if _ innovative come very much are, but it's the impact as if in _ innovative come very much are, but it's the impact as if in over- it's the impact as if in over 50-year-old _ it's the impact as if in over 50—year—old sees- it's the impact as if in over 50—year—old sees a - it's the impact as if in over 50—year—old sees a job - it's the impact as if in over. 50—year—old sees a job advert it's the impact as if in over- 50—year—old sees a job advert using those _ 50—year—old sees a job advert using those sorts— 50—year—old sees a job advert using those sorts of— 50—year—old sees a job advert using those sorts of words, _ 50—year—old sees a job advert using those sorts of words, they - 50—year—old sees a job advert using those sorts of words, they tend - 50—year—old sees a job advert using those sorts of words, they tend to l those sorts of words, they tend to think— those sorts of words, they tend to think that — those sorts of words, they tend to think that it— those sorts of words, they tend to think that it means _ those sorts of words, they tend to think that it means that _ think that it means that organisations— think that it means that organisations looking . think that it means thati organisations looking for think that it means that _ organisations looking for someone younger— organisations looking for someone younger and — organisations looking for someone younger and therefore _ organisations looking for someone younger and therefore one - organisations looking for someone younger and therefore one apply l organisations looking for someone i younger and therefore one apply for the role _ younger and therefore one apply for the role l— younger and therefore one apply for the role. ~' ,., ., the role. i thinki need some of what he is _ the role. i thinki need some of what he is tricky _ the role. i thinki need some of what he is tricky because - the role. i thinki need some of what he is tricky because i'm i the role. i think i need some of. what he is tricky because i'm not sure i do feel that energetic maybe gets this job sure i do feel that energetic maybe gets thisjob in sure i do feel that energetic maybe gets this job in this new programme. do you feel energetic and enthusiastic, marianne, orwhatand add like that put you off applying? i work in politics. 50 add like that put you off applying? i work in politics.— i work in politics. so you are trained? _ i work in politics. so you are trained? i'm _ i work in politics. so you are trained? i'm going - i work in politics. so you are trained? i'm going in - i work in politics. so you are trained? i'm going in with i i work in politics. so you are i trained? i'm going in with him icall trained? i'm going in with him typically op — trained? i'm going in with him typically op after _ trained? i'm going in with him typically up after them - trained? i'm going in with him typically up after them so - trained? i'm going in with him typically up after them so you| trained? i'm going in with him - typically up after them so you have to be as we are only try to say democracy here. i understand from the lot number will come out of the workforce, especially older workers, because in the us the unemployment rate is now the .4%. workers are driving the bus when it comes to getting jobs now. people cannot find enough people to work and they can get betterjobs at better wages with more flexibility now. so i think that's a good thing and long overdue. �* that's a good thing and long overdue. . .. ., that's a good thing and long overdue. . ., . . overdue. and he came out about a minute left. _ overdue. and he came out about a minute left, how— overdue. and he came out about a minute left, how many _ overdue. and he came out about a minute left, how many people - overdue. and he came out about a minute left, how many people are| overdue. and he came out about a - minute left, how many people are you looking for and what proportion of those will be over 50?— those will be over 50? within phoenix. _ those will be over 50? within phoenix. we _ those will be over 50? within phoenix, we employ - those will be over 50? within phoenix, we employ 7000 i those will be over 50? within - phoenix, we employ 7000 people at the moment— phoenix, we employ 7000 people at the moment and _ phoenix, we employ 7000 people at the moment and 44% _ phoenix, we employ 7000 people at the moment and 44% of _ phoenix, we employ 7000 people at the moment and 44% of them - phoenix, we employ 7000 people at the moment and 44% of them are i phoenix, we employ 7000 people at. the moment and 44% of them are aged over 45 _ the moment and 44% of them are aged over 45 so— the moment and 44% of them are aged over45~ so an— the moment and 44% of them are aged over 45. so an ongoing _ the moment and 44% of them are aged over 45. so an ongoing basis— the moment and 44% of them are aged over 45. so an ongoing basis is- the moment and 44% of them are aged over 45. so an ongoing basis is as i over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus _ over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for— over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for us — over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for us but _ over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for us but also _ over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for us but also along - over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for us but also along so - over 45. so an ongoing basis is as a focus for us but also along so that i focus for us but also along so that on the _ focus for us but also along so that on the government _ focus for us but also along so that on the government business i focus for us but also along so that i on the government business champion for older— on the government business champion for older workers— on the government business champion for older workers and _ on the government business champion for older workers and when _ on the government business champion for older workers and when you - on the government business champion for older workers and when you have i for older workers and when you have so many _ for older workers and when you have so many organisations _ for older workers and when you have so many organisations struggling i for older workers and when you have so many organisations struggling to| so many organisations struggling to find and _ so many organisations struggling to find and having _ so many organisations struggling to find and having lots _ so many organisations struggling to find and having lots of— so many organisations struggling to find and having lots of vacancies i find and having lots of vacancies and not — find and having lots of vacancies and not getting _ find and having lots of vacancies and not getting what _ find and having lots of vacancies and not getting what they - find and having lots of vacancies and not getting what they want, j find and having lots of vacanciesi and not getting what they want, i would _ and not getting what they want, i would encourage _ and not getting what they want, i would encourage them _ and not getting what they want, i would encourage them all- and not getting what they want, i would encourage them all to i and not getting what they want, i i would encourage them all to embrace thinking _ would encourage them all to embrace thinking about — would encourage them all to embrace thinking about recruiting _ would encourage them all to embrace thinking about recruiting more - would encourage them all to embrace thinking about recruiting more over. thinking about recruiting more over 50s into— thinking about recruiting more over 50s into their— thinking about recruiting more over 50s into their workplace _ thinking about recruiting more over 50s into their workplace was - thinking about recruiting more over 50s into their workplace was that i 50s into their workplace was that they will— 50s into their workplace was that they will have _ 50s into their workplace was that they will have a _ 50s into their workplace was that they will have a more _ 50s into their workplace was that they will have a more diverse i they will have a more diverse workforce _ they will have a more diverse workforce and _ they will have a more diverse workforce and be _ they will have a more diverse workforce and be more - they will have a more diverse i workforce and be more resumed if they will have a more diverse - workforce and be more resumed if of their customers _ workforce and be more resumed if of their customers in _ workforce and be more resumed if of their customers in the _ workforce and be more resumed if of their customers in the communities i their customers in the communities and businesses _ their customers in the communities and businesses perform _ their customers in the communities and businesses perform better- their customers in the communities and businesses perform better as i their customers in the communities and businesses perform better as aj and businesses perform better as a result _ and businesses perform better as a result. . ~' , ., , and businesses perform better as a result. . ,, , ., , . ., result. thank you very much for 'oinin~ result. thank you very much for joining us- _ result. thank you very much for joining us- l— result. thank you very much for joining us. i read _ result. thank you very much for joining us. i read a _ result. thank you very much for joining us. i read a piece - result. thank you very much for joining us. i read a piece in i result. thank you very much for joining us. i read a piece in the| joining us. i read a piece in the guardian sing every restaurant would employ a 50—year—old and maybe they would have bigger riding on their menus so you want to use your torch to read the menu. how many of you do that? see with us chemically more to hello again. most of us have had a fine and dry day. the sunrise was earlier this morning was absolutely spectacular. this was one of the weather watcher pictures showing a layer of outer cumulus being lit up by the rising sun. it was a decent day across parts of eastern england — that's where the best of the sunshine was — where some places kept mist and fog all day, some of these areas were in parts of the west midlands. and overnight, a few mist and fog patches initially. further north, though, we've got with this band of rain spreading into scotland, northern ireland, reaching northern england later in the night. this is a cold front. now, this cold front will push its way southwards, bringing something of a change to our weather. and over the next couple days, it will be getting a good deal colder gradually. now, the really cold air will be across the far north of scotland during wednesday — snow showers coming right down to sea level in shetland, where gusts of wind could reach 40—50 mph. with temperatures about one, it will feel freezing cold here. england and wales, cloudy with a bit of light rain easing as the front pushes into our area of high pressure, so there won't be much rain left on it, really. and for many of us, lots of sunshine, just a few showers coming into northwestern areas. heading into wednesday night, it gets cold — there will be a widespread frost and, as that colder air arrives, so we'll see increasingly those showers turn to snow across northern areas of scotland. that's the way of things into thursday. a few wintry showers possible around the north sea, but for the most part, the winds just offshore enough to take most of the showers and keep them out to sea. a few showers coming down the irish sea coast of west wales, southwest england, but for many of us, another day of sparkling sunshine. but it will be chilly — temperatures on thursday for many of us will be around about 2—3 degrees below average forjanuary. but the cold air doesn't hang around for very long. high pressure is still with us — the same one. but what starts to happen is we start to get a recirculation of this milder air moving into northern regions of the country. so, friday, some of the mildest air will be across northern scotland. here, though, a lot of cloud — and that cloud will be thick enough to bring some drizzle, particularly to the western isles and the highlands. elsewhere, some frost to start the day, a few mist and fog patches that could loiter, and our temperatures range from ten in northern scotland to around 6 celsius across the southeast. however, as we get into the weekend and into next week, a lot of dry weather — temperatures returning to average, or a little bit above. that's your weather. hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching context on bbc news. conservative mps are meeting tonight to discuss the future of boris johnson prospect premiership. he says no one told him drinks in the garden was against the rules. a former aide says he warned the prime minister about it at the time. the coronavirus pandemic has put schools at the centre of political debate in the united states — whether it's over school closures or mask mandates for pupils. the sixth mass extinction of the planet's biodiversity is currently under way — and humans are entirely to blame. tonight with the context — mary anne marsh, a us democratic strategist, and guto harri, former adviser to borisjohnson. borisjohnson categorically denies he was warned by downing street advisers at the time that a drinks party he was about to attend in the number ten garden was in breach of lockdown rules. his former aide, dominic cummings, said he would swear under oath, the prime minister was told. but unless there is any supplementary evidence yet to appear — it will remain one man's word against another. of course, only one of them can be telling the truth, but this constant drip of allegations that is taking its toll. today, the prime minister looked decidedly grey when he was grilled again about the new allegations. i'm absolutely categorical, nobody said to me, "this is an event that's against the rules, that is in breach of what we are asking everybody else to do, that should not go ahead." what i remember is going out into that garden for a short time, for 25 minutes or so, thanking staff who had worked on covid, who were continuing to work on covid, and then going back to my office. you were the prime minister's former adviser. you'll know better than most that when he's on form, he's effervescent. i want to believe this little of that same interview, and the body language is really telling, just watch. two boozy parties held in the garden, in the buildings of number ten the night before prince philip's funeral when the country was in national mourning. was having to apologise to the queen about those parties, the night before she put her husband of over 70 years, she laid him to rest — was at a moment of shame for you? i deeply and bitterly regret that that happened. what do you make of that? he's clearly pained. _ what do you make of that? he's clearly pained, he's _ what do you make of that? he's clearly pained, he's clearly i what do you make of that? he�*s clearly pained, he's clearly able to see what the rest of us see, that it was a horrendous situation, even more embarrassing once you bring the queen into it. it takes it into another level again. queen into it. it takes it into another levelagain. but queen into it. it takes it into another level again. but i think he's mainly suffering because he knows that this is something that has really annoyed people across the united kingdom, and people who are prepared to take a punt on it, people who never trusted the conservatives but were prepared to vote for a party led by him that they thought somehow was a different party. so it's genuine and heartfelt, i think, party. so it's genuine and heartfelt, ithink, he's in party. so it's genuine and heartfelt, i think, he's in a very tight corner, he knows he's fighting for his life at the moment. we tight corner, he knows he's fighting for his life at the moment.- for his life at the moment. we are all expectantly _ for his life at the moment. we are all expectantly waiting _ for his life at the moment. we are all expectantly waiting the - for his life at the moment. we are all expectantly waiting the reportl all expectantly waiting the report on her investigation into all this, but in terms of reference —— our terms of reference are pretty limited. it doesn't require her to passjudgment or tell us limited. it doesn't require her to pass judgment or tell us who is and isn't telling the truth — which might explain why dominic raab said this this morning. do we have that clip? here we go, sorry. it is lying and deliberate the way you describe. if it's not corrected immediately — it would normally, under the ministerial code and the governments around parliament, be a resigning matter. that is the principal, and we hold or uphold the highest standards of principles in public life. that is critically important. is he saying that because he might already have a steer on what she's going to say and what it will mean for the prime minister? call going to say and what it will mean for the prime minister?— for the prime minister? call me old-fashioned, _ for the prime minister? call me old-fashioned, but _ for the prime minister? call me old-fashioned, but i _ for the prime minister? call me old-fashioned, but i don't - for the prime minister? call me old-fashioned, but i don't think old—fashioned, but i don't think that any civil servant should have the fate of the prime minister in her hands. sol the fate of the prime minister in her hands. so i think we are burdening her to heavily. it is right that she draws out as much as you possibly can of the facts and figures, but it wouldn't be fair on anyone to be asked to make the call as to whether the prime minister should resign or not. that is a matter for elected representatives, and that is exactly where we will end up in the end. the facts will be laid out, some will be annoyingly helpful to borisjohnson as far as helpful to boris johnson as far as his critics are concerned, some of them will be annoyingly unhelpful as far as his supporters are concerned. in the end, conservative mps have to make a big judgment call. do they still think that this man, whose proved to be such an election winning force for them until now, and has gone from being an asset to and has gone from being an asset to a liability? that's a big call to make and i guess that's why this is so difficult. butjohnson is clearly sensing that others are looking at the precipice and, farfrom leaning backin the precipice and, farfrom leaning back in horror, they are actively possibly contemplating jumping over the cliff or throwing him a over the cliff. that could explain the terrified look in his face this afternoon. terrified look in his face this afternoon-— terrified look in his face this afternoon. �* , ., ., ., afternoon. i'm hesitant to ask you about christmas _ afternoon. i'm hesitant to ask you about christmas parties _ afternoon. i'm hesitant to ask you about christmas parties because l afternoon. i'm hesitant to ask you i about christmas parties because your christmas tree is still up, it's still ongoing, so i'm not entirely sure you are an objective viewer on this. but i want to talk to you about the schadenfreude, i'll put some headlines on the screen for our viewers to have a look at as we talk. but there's an awful lot of schadenfreude around in the european and us papers. i wonder if the attitude towards johnson will always be, in some way, always underlined by the attitude overseas to brexit and the similarities they see in him and the similarities they see in him and donald trump, whether that's a fair comparison or not? i and donald trump, whether that's a fair comparison or not?— fair comparison or not? i think it is, and i think— fair comparison or not? i think it is, and i think the _ fair comparison or not? i think it is, and i think the universal- is, and i think the universal feeling _ is, and i think the universal feeling for all people in their leaders _ feeling for all people in their leaders as they don't appreciate hypocrisy. when there is one set of rules for— hypocrisy. when there is one set of rules for them and another for the person— rules for them and another for the person leading them, and they don't abide _ person leading them, and they don't abide by— person leading them, and they don't abide by them. in the case of boris johnson, _ abide by them. in the case of boris johnson, you've seen a series of changing — johnson, you've seen a series of changing explanation. and of course, no one _ changing explanation. and of course, no one needed to tell him it would be inappropriate and wrong, and in poor taste — be inappropriate and wrong, and in poor taste to have any sort of party during _ poor taste to have any sort of party during covid, but the night before the funeral of prince philip. donald trump _ the funeral of prince philip. donald trump is _ the funeral of prince philip. donald trump is much like borisjohnson and that neither— trump is much like borisjohnson and that neither one of them believe that neither one of them believe that there are any consequences for their conduct or behaviour. donald trump, _ their conduct or behaviour. donald trump, impeach twice, never removed in either— trump, impeach twice, never removed in either terms— borisjohnson seemingly about to be held to account, — seemingly about to be held to account, we will see what happens there _ account, we will see what happens there but — account, we will see what happens there. but they are both very similar— there. but they are both very similar figures, and there. but they are both very similarfigures, and in many ways, the arrival— similarfigures, and in many ways, the arrival of — similarfigures, and in many ways, the arrival of boris johnson and ltrage— the arrival of boris johnson and lirags it — the arrival of boris johnson and brags it was a dry run and the priest — brags it was a dry run and the priest cursor to the 2016 election and ultrapure. yet we've seen with donald _ and ultrapure. yet we've seen with donald trump whose mounting problems and challenges coming with him as he tries to _ and challenges coming with him as he tries to perhaps run for a 20 to 24 race, _ tries to perhaps run for a 20 to 24 race, everything seems to be catching _ race, everything seems to be catching up with him — and that ntight— catching up with him — and that might be — catching up with him — and that might be true ofjohnson, as well —— 2024 _ might be true ofjohnson, as well —— 2024 race _ might be true ofjohnson, as well -- 2024 race. might be true ofjohnson, as well -- 2024 race-— 2024 race. the metropolitan police have refused _ 2024 race. the metropolitan police have refused to _ 2024 race. the metropolitan police have refused to get _ 2024 race. the metropolitan police have refused to get involved, - 2024 race. the metropolitan police have refused to get involved, but l 2024 race. the metropolitan police j have refused to get involved, but it was only a matter of time before ac 12 got involved. i blame the wee donkey. a serious point to this, the reason i put that on is because the conservatives are waiting for sue grey to report, but that's one video doing the rounds on twitter that's gone viral at the moment, and the polling, in the memes and twitterfeeds moment, and the polling, in the memes and twitter feeds have already made up their mind on what they think. and as a communications adviser, as you were to him, that's disastrous, isn't it? 3 million people have viewed that video that we just played. people have viewed that video that we just played-— we just played. some of them would've had _ we just played. some of them would've had a _ we just played. some of them would've had a bit _ we just played. some of them would've had a bit of- we just played. some of them would've had a bit of a - we just played. some of them would've had a bit of a laugh, | we just played. some of them - would've had a bit of a laugh, and some of them will be outraged, but even those that were outraged will not conclude this is necessarily a resigning matter will stop and by the time we face and other general election in the united kingdom, i doubt very much this will be front of mind for most people voting — which is not to say of course that it's not extremely toxic, and i thinkjust it's not extremely toxic, and i think just as it's not extremely toxic, and i thinkjust as a professional looking at this, what is pitiful is how they failed to get ahead of the story. we heard about a party before christmas — that was the time to say some of these things happened and there were many more of them, and there will be further revelations down the line, so let me just come clean at this stage. we were working hard and were in a unique situation, it doesn't excuse us but you need to understand what was happening, i beg your forgiveness. had he done that before christmas rather than allow it to dribble out day after day, after day, then i think he would've got a head. now he's chasing his tail, which is always harder to fight off then preempt something. whether it endures, that's _ then preempt something. whether it endures, that's a _ then preempt something. whether it endures, that's a judgment - endures, that's a judgment conservative mps will have to make. i should say the video we played is produced by led by donkeys, which is very critical of the prime minister and brexit. the coronavirus pandemic put schools right at the centre of political debate in the united states. parents who advocated for school reopenings were demonised on social media as racist or mischaracterized as trump supporters. in virgina, the republican glenn yunkin, who campaigned on parental choice, won the governors race against all odds. this weekend, in the new york times magazine this week, jonathan chait said school closures had been a catastrophic error and the democrats should apologise. angie schmitt in the atlantic — who describes herself as a loyal left leaning democrat — feels the same. covid school policies she says have set her adrift from her tribe. the schools' issue could be contributing towards the democrats slump in the polls. last year, a nine—point democratic advantage became a five—point republican lead. gallup says it is the biggest swing in a calendar year, in 30 years of tracking. let's talk then to the atlantic, angie schmitt — life—long democrat, and now you are not so sure? yes. why? last year i had a son enrolled in _ yes. why? last year i had a son enrolled in kindergarten, - yes. why? last year i had a son enrolled in kindergarten, i - yes. why? last year i had a son enrolled in kindergarten, i live i enrolled in kindergarten, i live here in cleveland, ohio, and the district did not return to school, he missed pretty much the entire year. and even after the teachers were offered vaccines, kids at the cleveland public schools only returned two days a week. after missing a full year, including kindergarten, he would've only been offered a handful of days in the classroom before summer break. 50 classroom before summer break. so who do you blame for that, for what happened last year?— who do you blame for that, for what happened last year? well, one thing that's disappointing _ happened last year? well, one thing that's disappointing about _ happened last year? well, one thing that's disappointing about it - happened last year? well, one thing that's disappointing about it is - happened last year? well, one thing that's disappointing about it is the l that's disappointing about it is the democrats they are a lot of the responsibility, i think. democrats they are a lot of the responsibility, ithink. actually democrats they are a lot of the responsibility, i think. actually it was our republican governor mike dewine who eventually forced cleveland public schools to resume after the teachers were vaccinated. i think there's a lot of blame to go around, it's sort of a systems failure. ,, around, it's sort of a systems failure. i. . ,, failure. do you look back with some hindsi . ht? failure. do you look back with some hindsight? because _ failure. do you look back with some hindsight? because let's _ failure. do you look back with some hindsight? because let's face - failure. do you look back with some hindsight? because let's face it, - hindsight? because let's face it, last year we were in a very different place. there were hundreds of thousands who died in america, vaccines weren't available, ventilation systems and schools were not that good, there was no rigorous testing. can't you understand why teachers might not have wanted to have been in a classroom with 20—30 people who could carry the virus a symptomatically?_ people who could carry the virus a symptomatically? yes, but there was really- -- so — symptomatically? yes, but there was really--- so i— symptomatically? yes, but there was really... so i don't _ symptomatically? yes, but there was really... so i don't blame _ symptomatically? yes, but there was really... so i don't blame them - symptomatically? yes, but there was really... so i don't blame them for. really... so i don't blame them for closing in march 2020, but by the fall there was really a lot of data that showed schools were relatively safe. and a lot of our european fears took the opposite approach and reopen schools many months earlier than we did, and in addition about half our schools were open here in the united states all of last year, including most of the private schools, the parochial schools, including in my own community. so we really had a lot of data because we could compare very similar communities where the schools were open and close, and we could see that there was not a big difference in the spread of corona. so there was a very strong evidence and it was a very strong evidence and it was ignored unfortunately by the party that claimed to be the one that cared about science and took that cared about science and took that seriously.— that cared about science and took that seriousl . ~ , ., ,, ., that seriously. whether you think an a oloa is that seriously. whether you think an apology is merited _ that seriously. whether you think an apology is merited or _ that seriously. whether you think an apology is merited or not, _ that seriously. whether you think an apology is merited or not, there's i apology is merited or not, there's actually no doubt this is hurting democrats and could hurt them all the way to the midterms. it’s democrats and could hurt them all the way to the midterms. it's more complicated _ the way to the midterms. it's more complicated than _ the way to the midterms. it's more complicated than that, _ the way to the midterms. it's more complicated than that, with - the way to the midterms. it's more complicated than that, with all- the way to the midterms. it's more complicated than that, with all due j complicated than that, with all due respect _ complicated than that, with all due respect to— complicated than that, with all due respect to angie. yes, private schools stayed open the whole time because _ schools stayed open the whole time because they had the resources to do it. because they had the resources to do it they— because they had the resources to do it they had _ because they had the resources to do it. they had great hvac systems, they had — it. they had great hvac systems, they had testing, masks, everything you would _ they had testing, masks, everything you would need to keep any kid in a school— you would need to keep any kid in a school safe, — you would need to keep any kid in a school safe, no question about that. ithink— school safe, no question about that. i think where people have fallen behind — i think where people have fallen behind is — i think where people have fallen behind is now people have the money, plenty— behind is now people have the money, plenty of— behind is now people have the money, plenty of money has come from the federal— plenty of money has come from the federal government to cities, towns and states— federal government to cities, towns and states across the country to do those _ and states across the country to do those things — and yet for whatever reason, _ those things — and yet for whatever reason, that— those things — and yet for whatever reason, that hasn't happened. i would _ reason, that hasn't happened. i would be — reason, that hasn't happened. i would be remiss not to point, however. _ would be remiss not to point, however, also to states like florida who just _ however, also to states like florida who just flaunt the data, don't count— who just flaunt the data, don't count people with cases, don't count people _ count people with cases, don't count people who — count people with cases, don't count people who died of covid and all that _ people who died of covid and all that it's — people who died of covid and all that. it's hard to could find good data out — that. it's hard to could find good data out there, but we are going into year— data out there, but we are going into year three now, no question everyone — into year three now, no question everyone has the money to do everything they need to have to keep a kid safe _ everything they need to have to keep a kid safe in— everything they need to have to keep a kid safe in school, and i would also _ a kid safe in school, and i would also point — a kid safe in school, and i would also point out it underscores the terrible — also point out it underscores the terrible childcare shortage in this country— terrible childcare shortage in this country that would be addressed if build back— country that would be addressed if build back better got past, but childcare — build back better got past, but childcare is a very important thing in and _ childcare is a very important thing in and he — childcare is a very important thing in and he would've been able to make a different— in and he would've been able to make a different choice. let in and he would've been able to make a different choice.— a different choice. let me 'ust finish with fl a different choice. let me 'ust finish with you, if i a different choice. let me 'ust finish with you, if i i a different choice. let me 'ust finish with you, if i may h a different choice. let me 'ust finish with you, if i may - h a different choice. let me just finish with you, if i may - we | a different choice. let me just - finish with you, if i may - we don't finish with you, if i may — we don't have a debate like this in the uk, there are certainly angry parents, i know parents who have taken children out of school because schools closed. but we have a very different style of debate here. why has this become such an issue in america? is it because people are suspicious of government overreach, do they not like federal government getting involved with their freedoms and liberties? is that what it is? fiur liberties? is that what it is? our covid response _ liberties? is that what it is? oi" covid response has been very politcised in the us. we started with trump denying the virus was a problem, and i think the democrats responded by trying to take the opposite approach and, in some cases, were a little bit extreme in their measures to manage the pandemic. and i think the way they were applied fell very heavily on some parties that are supposed to be traditional democratic constituencies, like low income kids. and i think that unfortunately the party was a bit oblivious about that, and a lot of kids got her as a result. ,., ., ., ., ,, ., that, and a lot of kids got her as a result. ., ., ,, ., i. , result. good to talk to you, things are coming on _ result. good to talk to you, things are coming on the _ result. good to talk to you, things are coming on the programme. i this is context on the bbc. still to come on the programme... a man in his 30s has been arrested in ireland, on suspicion of the murder of primary school teacher, ashling murphy. the 23—year—old was killed last week while out running in broad daylight alongside a canal. today, hundreds of people, including ireland's prime minister, lined the streets of county offaly to pay their respects as her funeral took place. from there, our ireland correspondent emma vardy reports. sadness has engulfed this town over ashley murphy's killing. today they stood together in despair and grief, struggling to understand. pupils from ashling murphy's primary school class formed a guard of honour as their teacher's coffin passed by. #, and follow me, i will bring you home... ~ ,.., , #, and follow me, i will bring you home... ~ ., ., , home... musicians and her team-mates aid home... musicians and her team-mates paid tribute- _ home... musicians and her team-mates paid tribute. ashling _ home... musicians and her team-mates paid tribute. ashling murphy _ home... musicians and her team-mates paid tribute. ashling murphy was - home... musicians and her team-mates paid tribute. ashling murphy was a - paid tribute. ashling murphy was a talented violinist and played the gaelic sport of come okie. ashley youni gaelic sport of come okie. ashley young epitomised _ gaelic sport of come okie. ashley young epitomised with _ gaelic sport of come okie. ashley young epitomised with the - gaelic sport of come okie. ashley young epitomised with the gift i gaelic sport of come okie. ashley young epitomised with the gift of| young epitomised with the gift of life. she shared her talent, young epitomised with the gift of life. she shared hertalent, gifts and talents so generously. we pray for her colleagues, students. the circumstances _ for her colleagues, students. the circumstances of _ for her colleagues, students. the circumstances of her death have led to an outpouring of sympathy around the world. she was attacked and killed in broad daylight while out jogging killed in broad daylight while out jogging on this canal path. this afternoon, irish police arrested a man on suspicion of murder. among those who came to offer their sympathies to her family was ireland's prime minister, the taoiseach, who is now unavailing... her sister, amy, described her as the light of their lives, cut short by a brutal act. our world is dying, and the species that live it on are disappearing at an extraordinary rate. in fact, a new study suggests the sixth mass extinction of the planet's biodiversity is well under way, which means five times before the planet's species have died off. but the last one was around 65 million years ago and wiped out the dinosaurs. up to 75% of all known living species died during that mass extinction event, which was caused by an asteroid hitting the planet. the current one is entirely caused by humans, and the study suggests that since the year 1500, we may have already lost between 7.5—13% of the two million known species. we are joined by the author of that study, professor robert cowie from the univeristy of hawaii at manoa. thank you very much for being with us. i'm bound to ask, given that it's accelerating, whether the fact that extinction leads to more extinction? it that extinction leads to more extinction?— that extinction leads to more extinction? ., �* , ., extinction? it can do, there's a phenomenon — extinction? it can do, there's a phenomenon known _ extinction? it can do, there's a phenomenon known as - extinction? it can do, there's a - phenomenon known as co-extinction phenomenon known as co—extinction that some people are beginning to write about — and that would be, for instance, if a write about — and that would be, for instance, ifa bird write about — and that would be, for instance, if a bird goes extinct, then all the parasites and so on living in amongst its feathers also go extinct, because the parasites were specialising on that particular species of birds. that's just one example of how one extension can cause another. it’s example of how one extension can cause another-— example of how one extension can cause another. it's somewhat similar to climate denial, _ cause another. it's somewhat similar to climate denial, isn't _ cause another. it's somewhat similar to climate denial, isn't it? _ cause another. it's somewhat similar to climate denial, isn't it? excuse . to climate denial, isn't it? excuse me. many people still don't accept that there a mass extinction event that's happening. that there a mass extinction event that's happening-— that's happening. that's true, and that's happening. that's true, and that was something _ that's happening. that's true, and that was something that - that's happening. that's true, and| that was something that prompted that's happening. that's true, and - that was something that prompted us to write this paper that recently published. what prompted us to do this was someone promised another paper back in 2017 in which he basically used an incorrect analysis of the international conservation of nature read list, incorrect analysis of the species that have gone extinct and came up with the conclusion that the rate of currency because it was no different from the background extension that's been going on for billions of years. hopi going on for billions of years. how do we stop — going on for billions of years. how do we stop it _ going on for billions of years. how do we stop it then? _ going on for billions of years. how do we stop it then? to _ going on for billions of years. how do we stop it then? to be - going on for billions of years. how do we stop it then? to be honest, j do we stop it then? to be honest, i'm very pessimistic, _ do we stop it then? to be honest, i'm very pessimistic, i _ do we stop it then? to be honest, i'm very pessimistic, i don't - do we stop it then? to be honest, i'm very pessimistic, i don't think| i'm very pessimistic, i don't think we can stop it. i think it's probably got to a point where if our numbers are correct and something like between 7.5 — 13% of biodiversity has artie gone extinct all over the last 500 years and that rate is increasing, then i feel there is some good causes, some people have made valiant efforts to conserve charismatic species such as rhinos, cheetahs, california condors and so on — but for the vast majority of species, which are invertebrates, there's very little invertebrates, there's very little in the way of actual focused conservation action being taken. and so while we are very pessimistic about the future for biodiversity on earth, we feel that the key thing that has to be done is to go out there and survey, collect representative individuals of every species we can find, put them in museums so that 500 years from now on... ~ ., ., , on... we would all be able to see them. on... we would all be able to see them- that's _ on... we would all be able to see them. that's kind _ on. .. we would all be able to see them. that's kind of— on... we would all be able to see them. that's kind of depressing l on... we would all be able to seej them. that's kind of depressing - them. that's kind of depressing — you live in an idyllic part of the planet out there in boston, massachusetts. do you see around you what we are talking about here, that species are moving and disappearing altogether? what do you see? i’m altogether? what do you see? i'm actually on — altogether? what do you see? i'm actually on the cape today, and i'll tell you _ actually on the cape today, and i'll tell you i_ actually on the cape today, and i'll tell you i swam in the atlantic ocean— tell you i swam in the atlantic ocean until the first two weeks of november, which is unheard of. and with it. _ november, which is unheard of. and with it. this— november, which is unheard of. and with it, this whole summer came more sharks— with it, this whole summer came more sharks and _ with it, this whole summer came more sharks and seals, a lot of them trying — sharks and seals, a lot of them trying to— sharks and seals, a lot of them trying to go further north up to maine — trying to go further north up to maine and other places because the water— maine and other places because the water was _ maine and other places because the water was too warm here. and as a result, _ water was too warm here. and as a result, they, — water was too warm here. and as a result, they, sea turtles and others -ot result, they, sea turtles and others got caught— result, they, sea turtles and others got caught late migrating south and were washing up on the shores throughout the east coast. so you can already see it. in boston, including _ can already see it. in boston, including yesterday and today, much of the _ including yesterday and today, much of the seaport, which is on the waterfront, lots of businesses are flooded, — waterfront, lots of businesses are flooded, and they are already putting — flooded, and they are already putting up automatic barriers that come _ putting up automatic barriers that come up — putting up automatic barriers that come up for those subway systems to stop the _ come up for those subway systems to stop the ocean from coming into the subway— stop the ocean from coming into the subway now. stop the ocean from coming into the subway now-— subway now. professor, thanks very much indeed _ subway now. professor, thanks very much indeed for _ subway now. professor, thanks very much indeed forjoining _ subway now. professor, thanks very much indeed forjoining the - much indeed forjoining the programme. i don't know why two nights running, we've ended up on extinction, i do apologise for that. if you'll see the film don't look up, you'll know that disaster and life and moments don't already... but then, if you have seen the netflix film don't look up, you will know that impending disaster and end—of—life moments don't always create the panic they might merit. case in point — this woman in ottawa who went for a spin on a frozen river and crashed her car through the thin ice. the woman now standing on the end of her sinking car, decided she should capture this unique moment as the panicked onlookers scrambled to reach her in a kayak. she has since been charged with dangerous driving. there's always an opportunity, always an opportunity for a selfie. we are at the end of our programme. thank you all for being with us, do join us for tomorrow, we will be back at the same time with context. goodbye for now. hello there. quite a few of you had a spectacular sunrise to start the day on tuesday. it was particularly good, i think, around parts of the west midlands, with this layer of altocumulus cloud being picked up by the low angle of the rising sun. there was some decent sunshine today, the best of it really across parts of eastern england. there were some places, though, that kept fog all day, particularly around the west midlands, for example. now, as we head into wednesday, there could be a few fog patches initially, but we've got these cold fronts diving southwards, and over the next couple of days, those cold fronts will be introducing colder air and north—westerly winds. but for wednesday, the real cold air really is just across the far north of scotland. in shetland, cold enough for some snow showers, even down to sea level. and with winds gusting to around 40 or 50mph, it is going to feel freezing cold, with temperatures around about one celsius or so for a high. then southwards, england and wales having a lot of cloud, a few patches of light rain and drizzle, nothing heavy, really, as this weakening weather front runs into our area of high pressure that's been with us now for days. wednesday night is a cold one. the skies are clear for many others, temperatures drop away, the skies are clear for many of us, temperatures drop away, snow showers increasingly push into the north of scotland, so we'll see some wintry weather here, a risk of icy conditions, and that frost will become really quite extensive across the uk. thursday, then, promises to be the coldest day of the week. high pressure is with us, though, and for many of us, there will be sparkling blue skies and lots of sunshine. it will be cold, though. for northern scotland, again, there will be some snow showers mixed in with the sleet and the rain perhaps towards more coastal areas and a few showers come down the irish sea coast. the wind is offshore, so it should keep most of the showers out of the way for the east coast, butjust1—2 possibly grazing the east coast, could see an odd bit of wintriness mixed in with that. but it will be a chilly day, temperatures for the most part will be around 2—3 degrees below the january average. now, let's talk about wriggles and meanders in rivers. you can see this very typical pattern as a river approaches the ocean. well, ourjet stream in the atmosphere kind of works in the same way. we get these wriggles, these troughs and these ridges that kind of slowly meander around. when these ridge and trough patterns get really big, and this is a really amplified pattern, what happens is, the weather systems become very, very slow moving, they don't change very much, and that's what we've got going on at the moment. now, over the next few days, high pressure stays with us. we're ultimately going to get some milder air coming round the high pressure and getting recirculated into western scotland, where on friday, there could even be cloud thick enough to give an odd bit of drizzle. no great amounts, mind you. elsewhere, some mist and fog patches to start the day, some frost, particularly where we keep those clearer skies, and some of the fog may well linger. where that happens, temperatures won't get too much above freezing, but for the most part, sixes and sevens, but across northern scotland, that's where the mildest air will be, ten celsius in the hotspots, if you will. on into the weekend, little overall change. high pressure still there. again, we could see a few spots of rain for the western isles, in the highlands, perhaps orkney and shetland for a time, too. the best of any sunshine probably across more central and eastern areas, once we've cleared any early—morning fog patches. and those temperatures generally coming up to average, a little bit above average for scotland and for northern ireland. and remember thejet stream pattern? well, i said when we get those big meanders, the weather doesn't change very much. proof of the pudding! sunday through to thursday, hardly any change, really. there will be lots of dry weather, high pressure stays with us, fog could be an issue and there will be some cold mornings with some frost. that's your weather. tonight at ten — borisjohnson faces more claims — that he misled the house of commons about the drinks party in downing street. visiting a hospital today — the prime minister was asked if it was true that he'd been warned the gathering was against the rules. nobody told me that what we were doing was, as you say, against the rules, that the event in question was something that we were going to do something that wasn't a work event. but his former adviser dominic cummings says he did warn the prime minister — and he will be giving evidence to the official inquiry. during the day — mrjohnson said he 'humbly apologised' to people for 'misjudgements�* that were made. also tonight — "cautious optimism" in government that the current covid measures in england can be "substantially reduced" next week.