Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Papers 20240709

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hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be bringing us tomorrow. with me are sienna rodgers, who's the editor at labourlist, and the political strategist jo tanner. very good evening to you both. thank you for being with us. let's have a quick sneak preview at the front pages. the metro leads with claims by dominic cummings, former aide to borisjohnson, that the prime minister misled parliament when he said he wasn't aware of the party on may 20 in the back garden of downing street. the guardian goes with the same story, which is captured in its headline — "cummings accuses pm of lying over no 10 party". the times, too, makes that its top story with an almost identical treatment. the i reports that the conservatives are now 13 points behind labour in the latest poll in the wake of partygate. the ft breaks with the consensus — it reports that ministers are thinking of paying energy suppliers to help with household bills. the telegraph says magistrates are to get greater powers to clear the trials backlog. and the daily mail reports that british troops are to be sent to ukraine to try to make russia think twice about a possible invasion. let's start off, then, sienna, why don't you kick us off? the dominic cummings claims in a lot of the papers accusing the prime minister of lying over that number 10 party, of lying over that number 10 party, of course he was the prime minister's chief adviser. now is his chief critic in many ways. i suppose it is kind of a question of, who do you believe, borisjohnson dominic cummings? you believe, boris johnson dominic cummings?— you believe, boris johnson dominic cumminus? , �* cummings? neither, maybe? but in this case i think _ cummings? neither, maybe? but in this case i think that _ cummings? neither, maybe? but in this case i think that boris _ cummings? neither, maybe? but in this case i think that boris johnson l this case i think that borisjohnson has just stuck himself into such a hole here we can all see how this has developed, and i think around 20 to from parties now that people are looking into? it is so ridiculous, the long list of events either claimed to be work events or did not know about, etc, etc, soaked dominic cummings... clearly the prime minister made an enemy when dominic cummings was supposedly given a part—time role, but it was briefed that he was sacked, and we all saw that he was sacked, and we all saw that picture of him walking out and down the street with his box of things and he has now added to his blog today, and he said, actually... i think he is quite open about the fact that he has been rethink some of the stories about parties and he said... these bring your own booze parties, he personally told martin reynolds — the person who sent the e—mail — that the invitation broke the rules, and he knows the prime minister was spoken to about how people had concerns over this gathering, because it was not a spontaneous meeting at the garden, this was much more... we have seen that invitation, or it says, come, let's enjoy the weather and bring your own booze. there is no mention of work there at all, it is clearly a social occasion, but the fact that dominic cummings has said this, we have been told very specifically that the prime minister... did not receive that e—mail, did not know about the event before it happened. apparently, we are supposedly he just had a stroll into his garden and joined the work events at the right time and stay there 25 minutes, thank you, people. i do not know how he knew it was happening and happened to be there for 6pm. apparently that is a matter for sue gray, so they keep saying, so, yes, this is another revelation that is just going to keep this story going. jo, the guardian have details from the dominic cummings, that he said to the prime ministers something like, martin reynolds invited the building fredericks party, this is what i am talking about — you've got to grip this madhouse. —— for party. and he talks about how the prime minister waved him aside. you don't reall en minister waved him aside. you don't really envy the _ minister waved him aside. you don't really envy the job — minister waved him aside. you don't really envy the job sue _ minister waved him aside. you don't really envy the job sue gray - minister waved him aside. you don't really envy the job sue gray has - really envy the job sue gray has got, _ really envy the job sue gray has got, with the layer of information that comes out, any challenge here is how— that comes out, any challenge here is how credible a witness is dominic cummings? — is how credible a witness is dominic cummings? the man who decided to test his_ cummings? the man who decided to test his eyesight on a drive to barnard — test his eyesight on a drive to barnard castle, and beasley at the time a _ barnard castle, and beasley at the time a lot— barnard castle, and beasley at the time a lot of people thought this was a man— time a lot of people thought this was a man who did not really understand the rules. the challenge with what_ understand the rules. the challenge with what is going on it number 10 is, really. — with what is going on it number 10 is, really, who was in a position to understand — is, really, who was in a position to understand the rules? i can member at the _ understand the rules? i can member at the time, — understand the rules? i can member at the time, there were lots of even ithink— at the time, there were lots of even i think the _ at the time, there were lots of even i think the newspaper review people saying. _ i think the newspaper review people saying. we _ i think the newspaper review people saying, we did not really understand what was _ saying, we did not really understand what was come out of number 10 sometimes. it seems inconceivable the people — sometimes. it seems inconceivable the people it number 10 did not know how the _ the people it number 10 did not know how the rules were to be applied, so ithink— how the rules were to be applied, so i think sue _ how the rules were to be applied, so i think sue gray has got one hell of a task— i think sue gray has got one hell of a task on— i think sue gray has got one hell of a task on your hands, and the team 70 cummings is willing to put forward — 70 cummings is willing to put forward as much information as he cans _ forward as much information as he cans -- _ forward as much information as he cans -- and — forward as much information as he cans -- and i— forward as much information as he cans —— and i think dominic cummings _ cans -- and i think dominic cummings— cans -- and i think dominic cumminus. , . , , cummings. more pictures, documents or evidence. — cummings. more pictures, documents or evidence, isn't _ cummings. more pictures, documents or evidence, isn't it, _ cummings. more pictures, documents or evidence, isn't it, that _ cummings. more pictures, documents or evidence, isn't it, that might - or evidence, isn't it, that might worry people in the government and down the street any prime minister himself rather than maybe just dominic cummings and whatever he says? if there is actual firm evidence, like e—mails, like pictures, that is a different matter. ~ , ., pictures, that is a different matter. , , ., ,, matter. absolutely. photos speak louder than _ matter. absolutely. photos speak louder than words. _ matter. absolutely. photos speak louder than words. once - matter. absolutely. photos speak louder than words. once people l matter. absolutely. photos speak i louder than words. once people saw the photos— louder than words. once people saw the photos in the garden, people started _ the photos in the garden, people started paying attention, and that e-maii. _ started paying attention, and that e—mail, david comes out, is damning. there _ e—mail, david comes out, is damning. there was— e—mail, david comes out, is damning. there was a _ e—mail, david comes out, is damning. there was a throwaway line in his ijlol there was a throwaway line in his blog post. — there was a throwaway line in his blog post, that there are more. i would _ blog post, that there are more. i would he — blog post, that there are more. i would be interested know, has sue gray had _ would be interested know, has sue gray had access to people's phones, e-maiis? _ gray had access to people's phones, e—mails? what level of access has she had? — e—mails? what level of access has she had? clearly her inquiryjust keeps _ she had? clearly her inquiryjust keeps getting added to as these revelations keep coming out, and it is suggested that his delay and delayed, but why is it that she is not uncovering the stuff? i think there _ not uncovering the stuff? i think there a — not uncovering the stuff? i think there a lot — not uncovering the stuff? i think there a lot of questions there, and if the _ there a lot of questions there, and if the report comes out... could spell— if the report comes out... could spell even— if the report comes out... could spell even more trouble with boris johnson _ spell even more trouble with boris johnson. �* , . ~ spell even more trouble with boris johnson. �*, ., ,, ., ., johnson. let's talk about what trouble he _ johnson. let's talk about what trouble he is _ johnson. let's talk about what trouble he is still _ johnson. let's talk about what trouble he is still in. _ johnson. let's talk about what trouble he is still in. di, - johnson. let's talk about what j trouble he is still in. di, pulls, and go, but it is not good reading the prime minister.— and go, but it is not good reading the prime minister. prime ministers alwa s sa the prime minister. prime ministers always say that _ the prime minister. prime ministers always say that the _ the prime minister. prime ministers always say that the only _ the prime minister. prime ministers always say that the only polling - always say that the only polling that matters is polling day, but this is— that matters is polling day, but this is clearly uncomfortable times, and the _ this is clearly uncomfortable times, and the thing people have to remember is politicians go back to their constituencies at the end of their constituencies at the end of the week, — their constituencies at the end of the week, so the weekend, after any stories— the week, so the weekend, after any stories that — the week, so the weekend, after any stories that emerge, is always difficult, — stories that emerge, is always difficult, and last week there was a pump— difficult, and last week there was a pump or— difficult, and last week there was a pump oramount of difficult, and last week there was a pump or amount of stories coming out with regards— pump or amount of stories coming out with regards to parties and social events— with regards to parties and social events that were going on that were or were _ events that were going on that were or were not — events that were going on that were or were not deemed business events lry or were not deemed business events by those _ or were not deemed business events by those that were attending, so there _ by those that were attending, so there is— by those that were attending, so there is definitely some concern, certainiy— there is definitely some concern, certainly tory mps will have been probably — certainly tory mps will have been probably lobbied, they will of god to the _ probably lobbied, they will of god to the supermarkets, been walking the streets where they live, where they represent, and these are very prominent — they represent, and these are very prominent people in their areas. people _ prominent people in their areas. people will go up and see how they feel. people will go up and see how they feet -- _ people will go up and see how they feet -- say— people will go up and see how they feel. —— say how they feel. and they were _ feel. —— say how they feel. and they were probably a number of e—mails sent, _ were probably a number of e—mails sent. again. — were probablya number of e—mails sent, again, one of were probably a number of e—mails sent, again, one of the first thing that happens to a lot of those mps elected _ that happens to a lot of those mps elected in — that happens to a lot of those mps elected in 2019 was a barrage of emails — elected in 2019 was a barrage of e—mails about what happened, funnily enough. _ e—mails about what happened, funnily enough, with dominic cummings over the breaking of the rules, as it was seen _ the breaking of the rules, as it was seen back— the breaking of the rules, as it was seen back then, when he took that famous trip, so mps will have been hearing _ famous trip, so mps will have been hearing directly from people about how they _ hearing directly from people about how they feel, they would've been seeing _ how they feel, they would've been seeing what the newspapers were saying _ seeing what the newspapers were saying. there were reports today, that there — saying. there were reports today, that there was a breath of fresh air, with — that there was a breath of fresh air, with no _ that there was a breath of fresh air, with no revelations on sunday, but to— air, with no revelations on sunday, but to date — air, with no revelations on sunday, but to date now, for tomorrow's pages, — but to date now, for tomorrow's pages, we — but to date now, for tomorrow's pages, we are seeing more content, and that— pages, we are seeing more content, and that will be uneasy. mps will find that— and that will be uneasy. mps will find that difficult. they don't know what to _ find that difficult. they don't know what to do — find that difficult. they don't know what to do. the tories are in a difficult — what to do. the tories are in a difficult position now, because the classic— difficult position now, because the classic question is, who is the next person— classic question is, who is the next person who — classic question is, who is the next person who could take over? do you really want — person who could take over? do you really want to have a vision contest? _ really want to have a vision contest? the tories having a tories koepka _ contest? the tories having a tories koepka did — contest? the tories having a tories koepka did precious —— notoriously complicated process. it could take months _ complicated process. it could take months. do they stick with boris johnson — months. do they stick with boris johnson and see if this could be written out? he is a man who has come _ written out? he is a man who has come back— written out? he is a man who has come back many, many times from adversity. — come back many, many times from adversity, and so the question is whether— adversity, and so the question is whether or— adversity, and so the question is whether or not they decide we know the chair of the 1922 committee has... a source of great interest— committee has... a source of great interest of— committee has... a source of great interest of a — committee has... a source of great interest of a particular from journalists. we don't know what that looks _ journalists. we don't know what that looks like _ journalists. we don't know what that looks like now, but mps going on the airwaves, _ looks like now, but mps going on the airwaves, mps meeting their constituents, mps in parliament — it is a very— constituents, mps in parliament — it is a very tricky time when his all hang _ is a very tricky time when his all hang out— is a very tricky time when his all hang out there. this suga report will hopefully be delivered soon, but there — will hopefully be delivered soon, but there are no clear deadlines on that -- _ but there are no clear deadlines on that -- this — but there are no clear deadlines on that —— this sue gray report. we don't _ that —— this sue gray report. we don't how— that —— this sue gray report. we don't how far they're going to get. we were _ don't how far they're going to get. we were told it was may be scheduled for the end of this week, possibly delayed until next week. in the meantime, sienna, the claim is, the government are trying to detractors off with so—called. .. government are trying to detractors off with so—called... the claim is the freezing of the bbc licence fee for a couple of years is one of those scraps of red meat. is that how you see it?— how you see it? yes. i think so. i thinkthat — how you see it? yes. i think so. i think that is _ how you see it? yes. i think so. i think that is pretty _ how you see it? yes. i think so. i think that is pretty fair. - how you see it? yes. i think so. i| think that is pretty fair. operation red meat, or operation save big dog, was the cringe last week— the prime minster called it that. nadine dorries, the new culture secretary, fairly new, tweeted over the weekend, some weird excuse but having lost her phone and therefore the suite came out announcing policy —— this tweet came out. the house of commons was annoyed about that, because policy should be announced to the house of commons first, but we did have a statement today and some discussion about it in parliament. she said the bbc licence fee will be frozen for two years, and she has talked about this as being because of the rising cost of living, which i do think isjust quite ridiculous, to be honest, because we can have an interest conversation about the future of the bbc, how it should be funding, but the best funding models should be productive but to talk about the cost of living when they have just voted to cut universal credit, at one of the worst times possible, when they've just voted to hike up national insurance this year, when council taxes are going to be rising because of local government cuts that it been going a few years and years now, and there is rising energy prices and you don't seem to be doing much about them, there is not much of a plan there, it is just ridiculous to say it is because the cost of living that the bbc licence fee is going to be frozen, i think. speaking of energy prices, jo, and thatis speaking of energy prices, jo, and that is a key component of the cost—of—living crisis, as people are calling it, the financial times have got quite an interesting angle on that, haven't they? the fd saying britain's exploit radical a intervention in the energy market. it was the state paid energy suppliers, when also gas prices shoot up, in order to soften the blow to consumers. i wonder if that is going to happen. blow to consumers. i wonder if that is going to happen-— is going to happen. there seems to be some work _ is going to happen. there seems to be some work going _ is going to happen. there seems to be some work going on. _ is going to happen. there seems to be some work going on. you - is going to happen. there seems to be some work going on. you may i be some work going on. you may remember, — be some work going on. you may remember, there have been some discussions — remember, there have been some discussions about vat cut which the government or were or were not looking _ government or were or were not looking at. — government or were or were not looking at, depending on who you spoke _ looking at, depending on who you spoke to— looking at, depending on who you spoke to or— looking at, depending on who you spoke to or what you read, and the government— spoke to or what you read, and the government have been under increasing pressure. one of the big challenges — increasing pressure. one of the big challenges with energy crises not only this — challenges with energy crises not only this big spike that is due to becoming — only this big spike that is due to becoming because of the cost—of—living, but also people are in a difficult — cost—of—living, but also people are in a difficult position where their energy— in a difficult position where their energy firms have gone under, so they have — energy firms have gone under, so they have not been able to switch and get _ they have not been able to switch and get them cells onto a cheaper deal, _ and get them cells onto a cheaper deal, which a lot of people have been _ deal, which a lot of people have been recommending, that folks should do, been recommending, that folks should do. so _ been recommending, that folks should do. so there _ been recommending, that folks should do, so there is now a challenge that if you _ do, so there is now a challenge that if you even— do, so there is now a challenge that if you even are in a position to try and switch. — if you even are in a position to try and switch, the price is already going _ and switch, the price is already going up— and switch, the price is already going up and most of the good news are not— going up and most of the good news are not there, so there is now a situation — are not there, so there is now a situation where the test of the price _ situation where the test of the price cap — situation where the test of the price cap and whether that is going to help _ price cap and whether that is going to help households is now being closely — to help households is now being closely watched by commentators, but essentially— closely watched by commentators, but essentially the governments are now according _ essentially the governments are now according to the story that is in tomorrow's ft, they are looking at whether— tomorrow's ft, they are looking at whether effectively energy suppliers would _ whether effectively energy suppliers would receive payments from the government when also gas prices exceed _ government when also gas prices exceed a — government when also gas prices exceed a threshold, and there's almost — exceed a threshold, and there's almost a — exceed a threshold, and there's almost a payback scheme for some the idea is— almost a payback scheme for some the idea is the _ almost a payback scheme for some the idea is the money would float back and forth— idea is the money would float back and forth and keep prices down for consumers. — and forth and keep prices down for consumers, which is now of massive concern, _ consumers, which is now of massive concern, and — consumers, which is now of massive concern, and in addition to the consumer— concern, and in addition to the consumer concerns, there are always -ood consumer concerns, there are always good to— consumer concerns, there are always good to be _ consumer concerns, there are always good to be concerns for businesses and manufacturing because costs are expected _ and manufacturing because costs are expected to go to the roof —— going to be _ expected to go to the roof -- going to be. ,, ., �* , expected to go to the roof -- going to be, ,, ., �*, expected to go to the roof -- going to be. ,, ., �*, ., to be. sienna, let's look at the telegraph- _ to be. sienna, let's look at the telegraph. tougher _ to be. sienna, let's look at the telegraph. tougher powers - to be. sienna, let's look at the telegraph. tougher powers for magistrates to clear the backlogs in the court, so that magistrate would be given powers to jail criminals for up to a year and this is the old, according to the telegraph, as the biggest change in the justice system in 140 years. i wonder if that would classify as part of operation to make red meat or not. it seems like there has been a policy frenzy, every day, we are getting something new. dominic raab has been quite busy. he is reviewing the human rights act, that is a little project he has got going, but he is also announcing the jail terms magistrates proposes going to double, from the current maximum six months to a year, and that means they can try more serious offences like assault and burglary and theft and fraud, so it will increase the number of cases they can handle and obviously that could help with the backlog. again, iwould point obviously that could help with the backlog. again, i would point out that we had over a decade of austerity, with really serious deep cuts to the criminaljustice system, we

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