Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Papers 20240709

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hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be bringing us tomorrow. with me is kezia dugdale who is the director ofjohn smith centre, glasgow university & former scottish labour leader and lucy fisher who is the deputy political editor at the telegraph. tomorrow's front pages, starting with, the pages, starting with, paper leads from some of th! prime the paper leads from some of the prime ministers own mps for him to resign and the wake of downing street lockdown drinks party. michael ellis pictured what was put forward by the government to mop up the urgent question of the affair. mounting pressure on the prime ministerfrom tory mps mounting pressure on the prime minister from tory mps to come clean over whether or not he was at that eventin over whether or not he was at that event in may 2020. that is the headline for the garden. they have been speaking to some mps that feel there will be for the revelations on there will be for the revelations on the downing street lockdown. the ft looks ahead to tomorrow's show and prime minister's questions, according to tory in piecing the mood and number ten is sulphurous. metro focuses on the public backlash against borisjohnson as news of the party emerged. the paper quoted, covid—19 bereaved families shows that he is showing contempt for their loved ones. the male asks if their loved ones. the male asks if the game is up for the prime minister. yes, the party is over boris. since the newspaper. so, let's get started. some nights, we discuss a range of stories in that range is largely down to about one at the moment, let's start with the mirror and number ten, lockdown fury. the party is over boris, showing a picture of borisjohnson and other that picture in smaller is the eden project in june last year, not of downing street. take us away. this june last year, not of downing street. take us away.- street. take us away. this is certainly _ street. take us away. this is certainly not _ street. take us away. this is certainly not the _ street. take us away. this is certainly not the new - street. take us away. this is certainly not the new year i street. take us away. this is i certainly not the new year start street. take us away. this is - certainly not the new year start the borisjohnson had hoped for. remembering before christmas, the cheese and wine debacle and talk about whether or not cheese and wine means a party, and some degree of work. this is far more serious for the uk government because there is an e—mail showing people were invited to a party and in the grounds of downing street, there is a suggestion twice by the bbc that the prime minister were there. and we're notjust talking about one cheese and one gathering, there were different gatherings of people being investigated by civil servants. this is bring your own bottle party, and i think there's another gathering. it is devastating for the government because with they're seeing of the pages today is countless grieving families referencing sacrifices that the civil servants were enjoying themselves in the garden of downing street. there are people who could not attend funerals and see loved ones in the dying hours because there is sticking to the rules when there is sticking to the rules when the most senior people were not. the downin: the most senior people were not. the downing street garden sounds like the hacienda nightclub. let's look at the daily telegraph which is normally very favourable to the prime minister given his long relationship with the paper but there is a fascinating front page there is a fascinating front page there that criminologist parliament problem intelligence who will be looking —— parliamentologist it is the absence is here today they were really striking.— were really striking. michael ellis, the master _ were really striking. michael ellis, the master general, _ were really striking. michael ellis, the master general, the _ were really striking. michael ellis, the master general, the junior - the master general, the junior ministers _ the master general, the junior ministers sent out to bat for boris johnson _ ministers sent out to bat for boris johnson and one wonders where the other_ johnson and one wonders where the other more — johnson and one wonders where the other more experienced colleagues were asked and refused to claim that they were _ were asked and refused to claim that they were busy and had no space in their diaries. it was a very awkward exchange _ their diaries. it was a very awkward exchange in— their diaries. it was a very awkward exchange in the comments as michael ellis was— exchange in the comments as michael ellis was forced to savour the prime minister— ellis was forced to savour the prime minister did not tend to resign and boris _ minister did not tend to resign and borisjohnson was going minister did not tend to resign and boris johnson was going nowhere. borisjohnson was going nowhere. a lot of— borisjohnson was going nowhere. a lot of anger— borisjohnson was going nowhere. a lot of anger today that answer still have not— lot of anger today that answer still have not been given to the most basic— have not been given to the most basic questions which are threefold to the _ basic questions which are threefold to the prime minister know about the latest _ to the prime minister know about the latest party on may the 20th to which _ latest party on may the 20th to which a — latest party on may the 20th to which a hundred people were invited tty which a hundred people were invited by his— which a hundred people were invited by his private secretary. secondly, did he _ by his private secretary. secondly, did he and — by his private secretary. secondly, did he and his wife couldn't attend that party— did he and his wife couldn't attend that party as eyewitnesses of claim to the _ that party as eyewitnesses of claim to the bbc. did he authorise martin reynoids— to the bbc. did he authorise martin reynolds to organise the party was mike i_ reynolds to organise the party was mike i think that third question is very difficult for him to answer because — very difficult for him to answer because as one conservative mp said to me _ because as one conservative mp said to me earlier, if he did authorise that, _ to me earlier, if he did authorise that, he will be in a lot of trouble because — that, he will be in a lot of trouble because i was a gathering that broken — because i was a gathering that broken the rules. if you answered no that he _ broken the rules. if you answered no that he did _ broken the rules. if you answered no that he did not authorise that, then that he did not authorise that, then that speaks to the sense of chaos and anarchy in downing street officials — and anarchy in downing street officials were so important to go ahead _ officials were so important to go ahead without seeking formal approval. so, not obvious to me what the prime _ approval. so, not obvious to me what the prime minister is going to say tomorrow— the prime minister is going to say tomorrow when he himself has to come before mps— tomorrow when he himself has to come before mps in the house of commons for prime _ before mps in the house of commons for prime minister's questions, but certainly— for prime minister's questions, but certainly at — for prime minister's questions, but certainly at the moment, people need to wait— certainly at the moment, people need to wait and _ certainly at the moment, people need to wait and see what the investigation concludes but it is not sufficient. tory mps say, heather— not sufficient. tory mps say, heather knows that he was there or not but _ heather knows that he was there or not but he — heather knows that he was there or not but he has to come clean. you are a recovering _ not but he has to come clean. ym. are a recovering politician, but remembering what it was like to be a politician, look at those empty benches. the politicians looking at that, how would you react knowing that, how would you react knowing that visible support is not there? i'd be incredibly lonely for the general to face the criticism that he did today. you need that balance behind you. you need young people to behind you. you need young people to be defending you and in this case, against the indefensible and the fact that people want willing to turn up, even when michael ellis is in the prime minister, not at the forefront of what is going on here, shows just how low morale must be on the conservative benches just now, you can see just now, how full the labour benches opposite our which speaks to a sense of how valiant they are by this particular story. they smell blood, they certainly smell an opportunity to advance in the polls, but they are showing that the polls, but they are showing that the first sighting of the aftermath of this story, i think 66% of the public wanting to see the prime minister resign. we should take this with a pinch of salt because it's very easy to get the answers that you want if you ask the question in the right way, that's not to cast too much on the motivations behind this poll, just to say that a snapshot on any one given day is not the same as a trend in the series of polls from what might happen in the general election. so while we can see that the prime ministers poll ratings, it doesn't necessarily mean that the days of tory government in general elections for example. let's go back to the metro. 66% say the pm should quit. lucy, being rather cautious about snap pools and not being replicated day after day, what do you think? it not being replicated day after day, what do you think?— not being replicated day after day, what do you think? it coincides with the anuer what do you think? it coincides with the anger that _ what do you think? it coincides with the anger that many _ what do you think? it coincides with the anger that many conservative i what do you think? it coincides with i the anger that many conservative mps are picking _ the anger that many conservative mps are picking up their constituents in the post—banks and their e—mail inhoxes, — the post—banks and their e—mail inboxes, seems to be a bit of fury inboxes, seems to be a bit of fury in the _ inboxes, seems to be a bit of fury in the many— inboxes, seems to be a bit of fury in the many claims of parties that it supposedly taken place in this latest _ it supposedly taken place in this latest one is only fuelled that sense — latest one is only fuelled that sense of— latest one is only fuelled that sense of anger further. i think the real immediate danger for boris johnson — real immediate danger for boris johnson is — real immediate danger for boris johnson is how his mps react and i am absolutely fascinated that around more than _ am absolutely fascinated that around more than a dozen came out on record and were _ more than a dozen came out on record and were fairly critical of either him or— and were fairly critical of either him or the _ and were fairly critical of either him or the situation and the general handiing _ him or the situation and the general handling of— him or the situation and the general handling of the party gate. and in particular. — handling of the party gate. and in particular, they felt that he should resign— particular, they felt that he should resign if— particular, they felt that he should resign if he is found to have misled parliament. — resign if he is found to have misled parliament, thinking of douglas ross, _ parliament, thinking of douglas ross, the — parliament, thinking of douglas ross, the scottish conservative leader— ross, the scottish conservative leader and mp who said if he had misled _ leader and mp who said if he had misled parliament, but as a resigning mentor. he made the rules, he should _ resigning mentor. he made the rules, he should not have broken them. nigel— he should not have broken them. nigel made a similar point that anyone — nigel made a similar point that anyone who has been at the top resigning — anyone who has been at the top resigning of a covid—19 policy, if they— resigning of a covid—19 policy, if they were — resigning of a covid—19 policy, if they were not able to abide by it, then— they were not able to abide by it, then that — they were not able to abide by it, then that person are those people need _ then that person are those people need to— then that person are those people need to consider their position and derek— need to consider their position and derek thomas, and mp, conservative mp is— derek thomas, and mp, conservative mp is saying — derek thomas, and mp, conservative mp is saying that if the metropolitan police investigation finds any evidence of the legality, again. _ finds any evidence of the legality, again, that would be another resigning matter. so, ithink it again, that would be another resigning matter. so, i think it is a really— resigning matter. so, i think it is a really dangerous moment for the prime _ a really dangerous moment for the prime minister to have so many mps come _ prime minister to have so many mps come and _ prime minister to have so many mps come and set such harsh conditions on this _ come and set such harsh conditions on this i_ come and set such harsh conditions on this. i think he is in a very tight— on this. i think he is in a very tight spot _ on this. i think he is in a very tight spot to explain exactly what he knew — tight spot to explain exactly what he knew of the party, whether he attended — he knew of the party, whether he attended and how he claimed last month— attended and how he claimed last month to — attended and how he claimed last month to the comments that no covid-i9 — month to the comments that no covid—19 rules had been broken in any sort _ covid—19 rules had been broken in any sort of— covid—19 rules had been broken in any sort of events that took place in downing — any sort of events that took place in downing street.— in downing street. looking at scotland there. _ lucy mentioned douglas ross, ruth davidson, the former leader, both of come out unequivocally saying that borisjohnson come out unequivocally saying that boris johnson served come out unequivocally saying that borisjohnson served resign. what do you think and what they are doing? there are a couple things you can draw from that. you're very pointed out, the commonality being that they're both scottish and that's because both of those politicians are very familiar with facing down an s&p government and they know their ability to do that from a position in the scottish parliament is greatly hampered by a story like this. very difficult for douglas ross to go into the chamber and try to criticise them when this is the dominating story and there is no doubt in my mind about that. but ruth davidson has long been a critic of borisjohnson. that dates back to the brexit referendum and arguably even before that. much more aligned with leading conservative figures like david cameron in sajid javid. particularly forthright in her interviews the prime minister and douglas ross a little bit less so in his history of speaking out against the prime minister and his remarks are particularly striking and if the prime minister is seen to have misled parliament or broken the rules, then he has to go, but i think that is the strongest line for many politicians that we have seen today. the independent newspaper, there's a story on the front page, and exclusive by the journalist in the headline that number ten staff told to clean up phones before and they were told to delete messages about parties. lucy, iam not a were told to delete messages about parties. lucy, i am not a tech expert. if there's one thing i've learned after scandal after scandal is that if you delete, that does not count. the tech guy will always find them. ., , count. the tech guy will always find them. . , . ., , count. the tech guy will always find them. . _ ., , , them. that is certainly my understanding _ them. that is certainly my understanding and - them. that is certainly my understanding and having| them. that is certainly my - understanding and having previously covered _ understanding and having previously covered this, there's lots of spooky ways— covered this, there's lots of spooky ways that _ covered this, there's lots of spooky ways that the security services can find deleted messages. i think this is an extraordinary story and suggesting that people in downing street— suggesting that people in downing street potentially senior staffers were well aware that there had been rule breaking events. not only were they aware — rule breaking events. not only were they aware of that but trying to encourage others to engage in a cover—up of that fact. i think is going — cover—up of that fact. i think is going to — cover—up of that fact. i think is going to he _ cover—up of that fact. i think is going to be a lot of questions about this tomorrow and interesting to see if there's— this tomorrow and interesting to see if there's any more proof or testimony corroborating this really extraordinary claim coming forward. ithink— extraordinary claim coming forward. i think what— extraordinary claim coming forward. i think what we do know is that the official— i think what we do know is that the official put — i think what we do know is that the official put in charge of this investigation has generated a very hi-h investigation has generated a very high degree of confidence and she is an enforcer. — high degree of confidence and she is an enforcer, someone who has not pulled _ an enforcer, someone who has not pulled or— an enforcer, someone who has not pulled or punches in the past and to the conduct — pulled or punches in the past and to the conduct when he was defective deputy prime minister to theresa may, _ deputy prime minister to theresa may, effectively ended his ministerial career. she is not someone _ ministerial career. she is not someone who is afraid of standing up to the _ someone who is afraid of standing up to the powerful. and every reassured the opposition, who had been fearful of a whitewashed inquiry into these parties _ of a whitewashed inquiry into these parties while being handled by the cabinet _ parties while being handled by the cabinet secretary was politically much _ cabinet secretary was politically much closer to boris johnson and the government. but i think of theirs improve — government. but i think of theirs improve the comes out the people have, _ improve the comes out the people have, either deleted messages of been _ have, either deleted messages of been urged to do so by senior colleagues, that's a whole new layer of trouble _ colleagues, that's a whole new layer of trouble for the government. questions about sue grey that he may not be able to answer. is she a fast worker and would you expect her to decide? i worker and would you expect her to decide? ~ �* ., , worker and would you expect her to decide? ~ 1, _ ., ,., decide? i think boris johnson will ho -e that decide? i think boris johnson will hepe that she — decide? i think boris johnson will hope that she is _ decide? i think boris johnson will hope that she is a _ decide? i think boris johnson will hope that she is a fast _ decide? i think boris johnson will hope that she is a fast worker - hope that she is a fast worker because the longer she takes to do this work, the more he is going to have to hide behind her name is the reason why he can't answer any of these questions. other there is a suggestion that he might stand up before prime minister's questions tomorrow and acquiesce to the parliamentary tool, cheese and wine gathering in the hope of trying to puncture some of the attack lines from keir starmer and from ian blackford, the leader of the s&p in westminster. the suggestion that he might try that tomorrow. she certainly has a reputation as a senior service, someone who cannot be turned to one particular ideology or personality or another. so the fact that she has the face of other parties i think, it is a strong sign that people will be willing to listen to the outcomes of her reports whenever those come. bond reports whenever those come. and we'll talk about this in depth because it has to deal with covid—19 rules no spec in 2020. here we are in 2022 in and on the page. who sounds durable alarm. tell us to the it is an astonishing _ durable alarm. tell us to the it is an astonishing statistic that the who _ an astonishing statistic that the who is — an astonishing statistic that the who is warning of that half the population of europe could be infected — population of europe could be infected with the omicron variant and the — infected with the omicron variant and the next two months. i think obviously— and the next two months. i think obviously we need to offset that very worrying sounding figure against — very worrying sounding figure against what we know so far which is that it _ against what we know so far which is that it seems all the scientific evidence _ that it seems all the scientific evidence points to a milder variant in europe —

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